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WarRI1
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Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:03 am

https://www.aol.com/article/finance/201 ... /23521098/

This does not surprise me, getting worse every year for the left behind citizens of the US. I eat out almost every day for lunch, getting mighty expensive for fast food, never mind a sit down lunch. As sit down now for a meal at lunch time costs my wife and I 50 bucks including tip.We do not drink alcohol either. just food. and a drink. Notice the figures for the top 5% versus the bottom 20%. What a country!!!!
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sccutler
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:22 am

Meanwhile, good-paying entry-level jobs, jobs with free training and great prospect for stable and higher-paid earnings, go wanting.

No one really wants to work anymore.

The construction trades are begging for bodies, to no avail.
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WarRI1
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:58 am

We have also lost at least a generation of skilled and invested and enthusiastic workers to the jobs going to China and elsewhere. I guess you did not read the vast difference in the wages and increases in earnings between then and now. When you cannot go out and be independent because of those low staring wages, it does seem to kill initiative, don't you think? I find it somewhat hypocritical for these low wage, low incentive corporations now crying about no customers. A famous theory by Henry Ford many years ago, that if he paid his workers enough money for them to be able to buy his products, he and they would prosper, and damned if it did not work. I ask , what happened to that theory? It seems to have been discarded in the good old USA of late, of course it is easier to blame the people than the corporations by many on here. I find such nonsense rather pathetic. I can afford to eat out because of such jobs in my working life. Good luck to the younger generations and to Wendy's and McDonald's. I am just starting a book called (Squeezed), guess, just guess what that is about. :banghead: :banghead:
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compensateme
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:43 am

Lousy excuse, it’s really about perception. Problem is, investor pressure for earnings has seen fast food prices rise faster than inflation. Remember when Carl’s Jr./Hardee’s introduced the “Six Dollar Burger” in 2001, at an average cost of $3.50? Well, today it’s known as “The Thickburger,” as prices at many SoCal locations has broke the $6 barrier.

And that’s the problem — McDonald’s, Wendy’s, etc. pricing has nearly caught up to that of premium fast casual establishments, and despite the introduction of “premium” items, consumers shun them for the fast casual. When consumers think of McD’s or Wendy’s, they think of and want cheap. Hence the deep discounting they’re blaming on wage discrepancy.

Here in Irvine, CA, I can get a Double Double combo from In and Out, a Box Combo from Cane’s or most anything off the menu at Chic-Fil-A for less than the cost of a Big Mac Value meal at McD’s. That’s just insane, given the Big Mac is universally regarded as being the cheapest, lowest quality of the bunch. Is it any wonder people only want it when it’s free or $1 via the app?

I use to work with a bunch of McD’s operators, and nearly all felt McD’s food was “underpriced,” when most people feel it’s overpriced. Instead of trying to pretend it’s Five Guys, McD’s/Wendy’s/etc. needs to accept its place in this world as a value leader, and adjust its prices accordingly.
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Ken777
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:44 am

When the minimum wage is well below the poverty line and the Chamber of Commerce fights like hell to keep it that way you can be sure that the historic Fast Food customers will fall by the wayside. It's sort of like health insurance - does anyone really believe that people on minimum wage can afford health insurance? With the massive split in poverty/wealth in this country you might as well get used to companies like McD's having problems well into the future.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:44 am

Ken777 wrote:
When the minimum wage is well below the poverty line and the Chamber of Commerce fights like hell to keep it that way you can be sure that the historic Fast Food customers will fall by the wayside. It's sort of like health insurance - does anyone really believe that people on minimum wage can afford health insurance? With the massive split in poverty/wealth in this country you might as well get used to companies like McD's having problems well into the future.


There's a very valid argument, however, that the correct minimum wage is $0. As in, there shouldn't be one - let the market determine wages.
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Tugger
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:52 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
When the minimum wage is well below the poverty line and the Chamber of Commerce fights like hell to keep it that way you can be sure that the historic Fast Food customers will fall by the wayside. It's sort of like health insurance - does anyone really believe that people on minimum wage can afford health insurance? With the massive split in poverty/wealth in this country you might as well get used to companies like McD's having problems well into the future.


There's a very valid argument, however, that the correct minimum wage is $0. As in, there shouldn't be one - let the market determine wages.

While I don't agree that a min wage has to be a "living wage" or anything like that, I also firmly do not agree that "no min" is in any way a good idea. It is actually damaging to the market. It means I will need to drive my wages lower to meet the lower wages a competitor may have. It means the person willing to work for as little as possible, even it in the end it harms them, because they needs money somehow some way.

Tugg
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compensateme
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:53 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
When the minimum wage is well below the poverty line and the Chamber of Commerce fights like hell to keep it that way you can be sure that the historic Fast Food customers will fall by the wayside. It's sort of like health insurance - does anyone really believe that people on minimum wage can afford health insurance? With the massive split in poverty/wealth in this country you might as well get used to companies like McD's having problems well into the future.


There's a very valid argument, however, that the correct minimum wage is $0. As in, there shouldn't be one - let the market determine wages.


Absolutely, I agree 100% the market should dictate wages. Problem is, that rarely happens; corporations have de facto colluded for years to keep wages artificially low. Target, Walmart, etc. have struggled for many years to attract a sufficient, quality workforce. Both retailers could’ve raised entry level compensation with minimum damage to their financials, but both choose not to, and instead told workers what they felt they should be making. Had Target increased its starting pay years ago, it would’ve been a domino effect, forcing competitors to match. But instead... wink, wink, nod, nod.

Sadly, shopping at brick and motor retailers became such a miserable experience, it acted as a catalyst for the explosion in ecommerce. And only then did the Walmart’s, Targets, etc. realize they had to do
Something...
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ltbewr
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:51 am

I think almost all 'fast food' isn't good food in quality, healthy or a good value for money.
Much of it low quality meat, add cheese, a lot of salt and cheap seasonings, high fat and caloric toppings and carbs that for growing numbers of people are unacceptable in taste or health. Many younger persons have not been raised by their parents growing up eating cheap fast food. There are issues of the safety of the preparation and declining quality of service from such places.Overhead costs for property for store sites, high turnover of workers with its costs, the poor pay and of work-life balance for such workers also affect the pricing and quality. Then there is the low/flat pay of too many customers, their student loan and other debts, lack of real defined 'lunch' time so instead bring leftovers, sandwiches or more healthy and cheaper food from home.
 
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kasimir
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:52 pm

This is the result when you let accountants and lawyers run the business to make share-holders happy, instead of the entrepreneurs that started the business with a clear plan and vision to serve the customers first!
 
rabenschlag
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:59 pm

I always thought that McDonalds (and every other industrial food chain for that matter) is incredibly expensive, not measured by my income, but by other food offers around.

In Germnay, a burger, fries and softdrink combo typically costs just above 6€. And this is warmed up prefab food handled by unskilled workers.

My local lunch shop, run by a married couple, both of them being trained chefs, offers two different lunch options every day, one for 5€ and one for 6.80€. Both of them being freshly prepared in the shop (you can see the cooks) from scratch, mostly plant based. We are talking about hot dishes here, not salad or sandwich. They are around more than a decade, so I guess they are making profits.
 
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kasimir
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:00 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I think almost all 'fast food' isn't good food in quality, healthy or a good value for money.
Much of it low quality meat, add cheese, a lot of salt and cheap seasonings, high fat and caloric toppings and carbs that for growing numbers of people are unacceptable in taste or health. Many younger persons have not been raised by their parents growing up eating cheap fast food. There are issues of the safety of the preparation and declining quality of service from such places.Overhead costs for property for store sites, high turnover of workers with its costs, the poor pay and of work-life balance for such workers also affect the pricing and quality. Then there is the low/flat pay of too many customers, their student loan and other debts, lack of real defined 'lunch' time so instead bring leftovers, sandwiches or more healthy and cheaper food from home.


Lets not forget that we see more then ever in our consumer history, that people perceive high price with quality... So businesses use this in their advantage, because they can see that reflecting in their sales!
Smartphones is another great example, rather them becoming cheaper, it seems that they are getting more expensive every year... Its all about finding that golden spot where businesses can maximize their margins/profits!

Just to be clear, I hate this development because I believe it is not sustainable in the long-term...
 
910A
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:31 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
When the minimum wage is well below the poverty line and the Chamber of Commerce fights like hell to keep it that way you can be sure that the historic Fast Food customers will fall by the wayside. It's sort of like health insurance - does anyone really believe that people on minimum wage can afford health insurance? With the massive split in poverty/wealth in this country you might as well get used to companies like McD's having problems well into the future.


There's a very valid argument, however, that the correct minimum wage is $0. As in, there shouldn't be one - let the market determine wages.

Let see if you're an behind the scene employee for discussion sake an airline not someone that's really needed like a pilot, would you be happy if the airline decides to cut your salary to $2.00/hr because you're not visible and automation can take your place or management wants more profits, so they determine the market wages?
 
Ken777
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:07 pm

910A wrote:
Let see if you're an behind the scene employee for discussion sake an airline not someone that's really needed like a pilot, would you be happy if the airline decides to cut your salary to $2.00/hr because you're not visible and automation can take your place or management wants more profits, so they determine the market wages?


We've already seen that when Delta cut Customer Service staff to the point that top tier flyers were raising hell and Delta had to apologize and re-invest in people to serve the customers. Guess those computers were not that great at boosting profits. Companies in general do not cut wages, they cut people so the planes might not be as clean, the toilet tanks not emptied, your suitcases don't make your flight on a routine basis, or (best off all) the computer system gets a bug and everything shuts down for a few hours.

Automation can also be a turn off for people who have to endure it. In terms of shafting workers with significant pay cuts, be prepared for drops in loyalty and quality if their work. Why should they give their best? You're attacking the workers at the lower levels and they will respond. Of course you would also be sucking in the unions to participate - customers love that.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:28 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.aol.com/article/finance/2018/09/08/poor-americans-are-being-left-behind-in-the-post-recession-comeback-and-it-is-creating-a-huge-problem-for-fast-food-chains-like-mcdonalds-and-wendys-wen/23521098/

This does not surprise me, getting worse every year for the left behind citizens of the US. I eat out almost every day for lunch, getting mighty expensive for fast food, never mind a sit down lunch. As sit down now for a meal at lunch time costs my wife and I 50 bucks including tip.We do not drink alcohol either. just food. and a drink. Notice the figures for the top 5% versus the bottom 20%. What a country!!!!


Anecdotal evidence. N=1 does not imply a trend.
To give a counter example: me and three of my colleagues go out for lunch every Friday. We usually go to an Indian buffet place. Excellent food for about $10 per person.

If there is any conclusion you can draw about your example, it is that you should not frequent Fast Food places (for starters, it's unhealthy).
 
mham001
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:30 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.aol.com/article/finance/2018/09/08/poor-americans-are-being-left-behind-in-the-post-recession-comeback-and-it-is-creating-a-huge-problem-for-fast-food-chains-like-mcdonalds-and-wendys-wen/23521098/

This does not surprise me, getting worse every year for the left behind citizens of the US. I eat out almost every day for lunch, getting mighty expensive for fast food, never mind a sit down lunch. As sit down now for a meal at lunch time costs my wife and I 50 bucks including tip.We do not drink alcohol either. just food. and a drink. Notice the figures for the top 5% versus the bottom 20%. What a country!!!!


People on low income shouldn't be eating out in the first place, it is a huge waste of money. Particularly every day at lunch. In fact, most people would do well to heed that advice.

Ken777 wrote:
When the minimum wage is well below the poverty line and the Chamber of Commerce fights like hell to keep it that way you can be sure that the historic Fast Food customers will fall by the wayside. It's sort of like health insurance - does anyone really believe that people on minimum wage can afford health insurance? With the massive split in poverty/wealth in this country you might as well get used to companies like McD's having problems well into the future.


Has the minimum wage EVER been above the poverty line? I call bs, back when I entered the workforce on $2.30 minimum wage, there was no way to live independently on it without massive overtime, minimum wage was never meant as a living wage..

EA CO AS wrote:
There's a very valid argument, however, that the correct minimum wage is $0. As in, there shouldn't be one - let the market determine wages.


I see this all the time around here, even though they are falling all over themselves to raise it, the market is deciding. When companies can't get people to work, guess what, they raise wages. Amazon for example, did that just last week and they were late to the game on that.. Fast food outlets have been advertising higher than minimum wages for years.
 
johns624
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:51 pm

The problem isn't what minimum wage is; it's how many jobs that used to pay well above it have stagnated and are near it now. Truck driver salaries haven't gone up anywhere near the cost-of-living rate the last 20 years.
 
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seb146
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:51 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
There's a very valid argument, however, that the correct minimum wage is $0. As in, there shouldn't be one - let the market determine wages.


This makes no sense at all. No one is willing to work for crap wages. The only reason we do it now is because school is so expensive. Some of us are working too damn hard to build credit to get loans or to save to take four or more years off. Add to that people like you who think everyone should be grateful for even just a crum.

If you want to work for 25 cents an hour, go right ahead. The rest of us want to pay for things like food and housing and health care.
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Aesma
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:12 am

The article mentions the deals McDonald's and others are offering, well, they're much cheaper than here in France, even without considering the exchange rate ! There is not a single item at 1€ here.

Yet McDonald's is thriving and full of low income people (and higher income ones too).
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:11 am

Aesma wrote:
The article mentions the deals McDonald's and others are offering, well, they're much cheaper than here in France, even without considering the exchange rate ! There is not a single item at 1€ here.

Yet McDonald's is thriving and full of low income people (and higher income ones too).



The mystery of US prices and wages versus those in France, who can explain it? Maybe corporate greed? Maybe a culture of worker exploitation? Maybe our government has failed us over and over and over when it comes to worker protections? Everywhere but in the US are the workers and owners able to make a buck, even with prices as high as the US when converted. Such a mystery. :banghead: :banghead:
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Mortyman
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:23 am

Go to Burger King instead. The King of fast food burgers ! More expensive, but better quality.
 
rabenschlag
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:13 am

Mortyman wrote:
Go to Burger King instead. The King of fast food burgers ! More expensive, but better quality.


Better quality? On which dimension???
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:31 am

Mortyman wrote:
Go to Burger King instead. The King of fast food burgers ! More expensive, but better quality.


Only in Norway is BK the best, outside of Norway there's Five Guys, In-an-Out, Wendy's and a whole range of others all better than BK.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:43 am

Company that pays low, stagnant wages to most of its employees complains that low pay for workers is negatively affecting their business.
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Aesma
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:32 am

Yeah it seems the irony is totally lost on them.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:56 pm

Wendy's 4 for 4 deal is the #1 reason I go to them. For like 4.50ish I can get a double stack (1/4lb meat) 4 chicken nuggets, fries and a small drink (wendy's small drink is the same size as mcdonalds medium drink). You can make it a medium "meal" and get medium fry + medium drink for something like $5.12. That is amazing value for that cost.

I can understand the conundrum. The market seems to be fairly saturated. I have so many choices to choose from. Everyone is competing for my business. Who wins is largely based on value, quality and the whim of my group of friends/co-workers each week. A simple slip up one week could mean you get thrown out of the rotation for months. A loss of 6-10 people's business. The same is true for our weekly dinner meet up. Screw up too much and we won't go to our normal restaurant and switch it up for something different. Instant loss of around 500 dollars that week.
 
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seb146
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:37 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Wendy's 4 for 4 deal is the #1 reason I go to them. For like 4.50ish I can get a double stack (1/4lb meat) 4 chicken nuggets, fries and a small drink (wendy's small drink is the same size as mcdonalds medium drink). You can make it a medium "meal" and get medium fry + medium drink for something like $5.12. That is amazing value for that cost.


You bring up another good point: the outrageous cost of health care. Poor wages and bad diet contribute to poor health care. And, because we can not afford health care, we are just surviving on all these fillers and chemicals and grease. And I just read where the replacement for Obamacare will not include preexisting conditions.

Don't get me wrong. I love Taco Bell. They are not Mexican at all but I love it. I only go a few times a month because of the junk in the food. Otherwise, I eat salad and grilled chicken at home.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
mham001
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:13 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The article mentions the deals McDonald's and others are offering, well, they're much cheaper than here in France, even without considering the exchange rate ! There is not a single item at 1€ here.

Yet McDonald's is thriving and full of low income people (and higher income ones too).



The mystery of US prices and wages versus those in France, who can explain it? Maybe corporate greed? Maybe a culture of worker exploitation? Maybe our government has failed us over and over and over when it comes to worker protections? Everywhere but in the US are the workers and owners able to make a buck, even with prices as high as the US when converted. Such a mystery. :banghead: :banghead:


I think you've gone off the deep end here. Lower wages combined with lower meal prices in the US doesn't exactly make your argument about US corporate greed.

Which raised the question about salaries and it turns out base salaries are not much different in two cities I checked with high costs of living. A job in Paris pays 8-10 Euros while jobs in San Jose I see advertised at $12-14. I can't find that online but I see they also offer a good benefits in the US. IF one wanted to jump on that bandwagon, perhaps it is actually the eeevil corporate powers in France who are subjugating their poor hapless employees for the benefit of their greed by overcharging their downtrodden customers?
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDona ... IM1080.htm
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:18 pm

So after posting in this thread earlier my subconscious compelled me to go to wendy's for lunch.

Info pertinent to Fast Food Geeks:
9/10/2018 16:00 UTC
Weather: Slightly overcast, pleasant temperatures of ~22C

Drove in my vehicle from my current work location to Wendy's. Decided to utilize the Drive Thru to minimize my out of office time. I was not the only one to make this decision and the drive thru was quickly at full capacity. I was second in line, and ordered a 4for4$ meal - Double Stack + 4 Chicken Nuggets + Medium Fry + Medium Coke. The upgrades of medium fry and medium coke would incur an additional charge.

Total meal cost: $4.95
They included 4 napkins and complimentary Bar-B-Que sauce (other options available such as ranch or honey mustard).

Service was a 2/5. The drive thru attendant appeared to be doing multiple roles, but she was quite pleasant. She handled taking orders and handing out food happily and with a smile, but it was evident she was rushed - probably due to a staff member deciding not to show up for the lunch rush. The bag was handed to me in a crumpled manner, not a neat folded presentation. That's ok, I'm just going to open it right away to sample a fry or two on my way back to my office anyways.

Food was 3/5 today. Normally Wendy's gets high marks from me. The fries were obviously over cooked - again likely due to being short staffed and people having to multi-role they probably left them in the fryer just a touch beyond the timer. Nuggets were savory as usual, especially with Wendy's industry leading BBQ sauce. The double stack, usually a top 3 fast food item for me, was a little dry. I felt like the meat may have been cooked a little long or perhaps the sandwich sat in the warmer bin a little longer than usual. Overall, it's hard to be upset with Wendy's food, it's always good, but today I feel like they were understaffed, affecting quality.

Value, 4/5 today. For less than 5 dollars I had enough food to make a proper dinner (as much as fast food can be at least). If the food had been better prepared I would have given a 5/5.

At this point you're probably saying to yourself, I can't believe this bloke just wrote a trip report about his fast food lunch today. But I'd also say to you, you just read all of it didn't you, why does that say about you ;)
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:52 pm

Looking at the other end of the problem so few Americans can cook a family meal from scratch, too lazy? "No one ever taught me how." Such a shame.
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casinterest
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:01 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
So after posting in this thread earlier my subconscious compelled me to go to wendy's for lunch.

Info pertinent to Fast Food Geeks:
9/10/2018 16:00 UTC
Weather: Slightly overcast, pleasant temperatures of ~22C

Drove in my vehicle from my current work location to Wendy's. Decided to utilize the Drive Thru to minimize my out of office time. I was not the only one to make this decision and the drive thru was quickly at full capacity. I was second in line, and ordered a 4for4$ meal - Double Stack + 4 Chicken Nuggets + Medium Fry + Medium Coke. The upgrades of medium fry and medium coke would incur an additional charge.

Total meal cost: $4.95
They included 4 napkins and complimentary Bar-B-Que sauce (other options available such as ranch or honey mustard).

Service was a 2/5. The drive thru attendant appeared to be doing multiple roles, but she was quite pleasant. She handled taking orders and handing out food happily and with a smile, but it was evident she was rushed - probably due to a staff member deciding not to show up for the lunch rush. The bag was handed to me in a crumpled manner, not a neat folded presentation. That's ok, I'm just going to open it right away to sample a fry or two on my way back to my office anyways.

Food was 3/5 today. Normally Wendy's gets high marks from me. The fries were obviously over cooked - again likely due to being short staffed and people having to multi-role they probably left them in the fryer just a touch beyond the timer. Nuggets were savory as usual, especially with Wendy's industry leading BBQ sauce. The double stack, usually a top 3 fast food item for me, was a little dry. I felt like the meat may have been cooked a little long or perhaps the sandwich sat in the warmer bin a little longer than usual. Overall, it's hard to be upset with Wendy's food, it's always good, but today I feel like they were understaffed, affecting quality.

Value, 4/5 today. For less than 5 dollars I had enough food to make a proper dinner (as much as fast food can be at least). If the food had been better prepared I would have given a 5/5.

At this point you're probably saying to yourself, I can't believe this bloke just wrote a trip report about his fast food lunch today. But I'd also say to you, you just read all of it didn't you, why does that say about you ;)



So this is the thing that ruins the double stack for me. the pickles. Sweet Pickles should be in relish, not on a cheeseburger. Mcdonald's has better burgers ( on the lowly scale of fast food joints) due to this issue on my side.

Here in this post is the prime problem that fast food really faces. 4 for $4 is cheap. The Dave's Single or Dave's double are $4 to $5 on the their own. While filling , they get more expensive for me at lunch. I would rather go through and pay 1.89 for the Spicy Go Wrap and 99 cent fry. I skip soda as I have it at work at a heavily discounted price. The Fast food joints are now victims of the low cost menu.
Those that would pay the 6 or 7 bucks for the big meals are probably just as likely to go to 5 guys, or another higher end fast food burger joint. As the wage inequality grows, this will shift the consumers on the higher end to better places, and leave McDonald's and Wendy's at a strong disadvantage.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
JJJ
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm

mham001 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The article mentions the deals McDonald's and others are offering, well, they're much cheaper than here in France, even without considering the exchange rate ! There is not a single item at 1€ here.

Yet McDonald's is thriving and full of low income people (and higher income ones too).



The mystery of US prices and wages versus those in France, who can explain it? Maybe corporate greed? Maybe a culture of worker exploitation? Maybe our government has failed us over and over and over when it comes to worker protections? Everywhere but in the US are the workers and owners able to make a buck, even with prices as high as the US when converted. Such a mystery. :banghead: :banghead:


I think you've gone off the deep end here. Lower wages combined with lower meal prices in the US doesn't exactly make your argument about US corporate greed.

Which raised the question about salaries and it turns out base salaries are not much different in two cities I checked with high costs of living. A job in Paris pays 8-10 Euros while jobs in San Jose I see advertised at $12-14. I can't find that online but I see they also offer a good benefits in the US. IF one wanted to jump on that bandwagon, perhaps it is actually the eeevil corporate powers in France who are subjugating their poor hapless employees for the benefit of their greed by overcharging their downtrodden customers?
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDona ... IM1080.htm


Entry-level positions at McDo seem to pay 9'88/h, but don't forget that comes with full healthcare coverage with no deductible and 4 weeks paid vacation. Burger flippers at a San Diego McD won't get anything close to that.

You're right that people on minimum wage shouldn't be eating out much, though. Certainly not every day. It takes very little time to make lunch for the next day. And if you're in a real rush cheap ramen costs under one buck, and water's free.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:21 pm

casinterest wrote:
Those that would pay the 6 or 7 bucks for the big meals are probably just as likely to go to 5 guys,

I don't understand the fascination people have with 5 Guys. The several times I have gone it is slow, expensive (burger, fries, and a shake for $15? Seriously?) and the food is not better than others (like Wendy's). Quite annoying at lunch time. I like the idea of "better" burgers but the above ruins it for me when there is equal available done faster and for less.

Tugg
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trpmb6
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:41 pm

Tugger wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Those that would pay the 6 or 7 bucks for the big meals are probably just as likely to go to 5 guys,

I don't understand the fascination people have with ***
Tugg


I think it's similar to people's allegiances to different airlines. (might be a stretch of an analogy)

I don't see much variation in the end product when you compare places like In-N-Out, 5 guys, Whatburger, Wendy's, Mcdonald's, Freddies, Sonic, A&W etc. I find them to be all on similar playing field food quality wise. Yes each has their style which affects decision making, but unless you have a serious conviction to one of these places, you're really just going to focus on the cost of the food. Which is why I think Casinterest is correct - you fight in the weeds of value meals or you have to really up your quality game to explain why you're charging 8 dollars for mediocre food. Don't forget, another couple dollars more and you could be at a sit down restaurant. Food industry is cut throat and operates on very tight margins. You have to provide the customer with some serious value - otherwise they may just buy that same meat at the market and make it themselves. Why would I spend 15 dollars on crappy hamburger meat when I could get a nice T-bone at the market.

Edit to add, I remember when I was a kid it was a treat to go to McDonalds. Had the play-place so it was a lot of fun. We don't ever take our kids to McDonalds. Maybe they just aren't old enough to beg us for it. But I just don't see the value. Would rather just make a picnic and go to the park where they can play there for free and have something healthy.
 
mham001
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:34 pm

JJJ wrote:

Entry-level positions at McDo seem to pay 9'88/h, but don't forget that comes with full healthcare coverage with no deductible and 4 weeks paid vacation. Burger flippers at a San Diego McD won't get anything close to that.


The benefits seem to be much better than the perception and I'm sure this only applies to full timers in corporate-owned outlets but they advertise this...

A job as a Team Member at a McDonald's Corporate owned restaurant gives you the chance to grow your skills and meet great people, while earning some outstanding benefits opportunities along the way. Those can include:
* Competitive pay
* Medical, dental and vision coverage
* 401k with matching contributions
* Paid time off equal to 2% of gross earnings
* Unpaid Leaves of Absence
* Education through Archways to Opportunity including opportunities to earn a High School degree, college tuition assistance and English classes as a second language
* Discount programs
* Free meals / meal discounts
 
Iloveboeing
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:23 am

The thing is, eating much fast food is really bad for your health. The poor (and everyone else) need to be educated on and encouraged to eat healthy and exercise.

My triglycerides were at 1,419 (should be under 150) and my doctor ordered me to go on the Whole30 diet. It's been rough, yet it's the best thing for me to do.

But it's my fault and a result of my bad eating choices. I would eat out at least 4 times a week. I'm not morbidly obese (I'm a 5'10 male and 196 lbs), but I'm glad I got this wakeup call and I'm on my way towards being a healthier person.

We all need to eat healthy and exercise regularly. If the diabetic epidemic doesn't scare people, I don't know what will.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:49 am

Does anybody realize how much of the poor population have no access to fresh healthy foods. Has no one ever figured out why every fast food corporation heads for the poor neighborhoods. Come on, use your common sense. They refuse to build grocery stores, but they sure do build fast food places. They do not want to pay them, but they will gladly take their welfare money, no problem there. They do not give a shit about anyone's health.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
mham001
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:36 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Does anybody realize how much of the poor population have no access to fresh healthy foods. Has no one ever figured out why every fast food corporation heads for the poor neighborhoods. Come on, use your common sense. They refuse to build grocery stores, but they sure do build fast food places. They do not want to pay them, but they will gladly take their welfare money, no problem there. They do not give a shit about anyone's health.


"they".

They are all out to get you!
 
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WarRI1
Topic Author
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:49 am

mham001 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Does anybody realize how much of the poor population have no access to fresh healthy foods. Has no one ever figured out why every fast food corporation heads for the poor neighborhoods. Come on, use your common sense. They refuse to build grocery stores, but they sure do build fast food places. They do not want to pay them, but they will gladly take their welfare money, no problem there. They do not give a shit about anyone's health.


"they".

They are all out to get you!


"They" as in corporations previously mentioned and included, so "they" describes them. :banghead: :banghead:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Flighty
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:01 am

JJJ wrote:
mham001 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:


The mystery of US prices and wages versus those in France, who can explain it? Maybe corporate greed? Maybe a culture of worker exploitation? Maybe our government has failed us over and over and over when it comes to worker protections? Everywhere but in the US are the workers and owners able to make a buck, even with prices as high as the US when converted. Such a mystery. :banghead: :banghead:


I think you've gone off the deep end here. Lower wages combined with lower meal prices in the US doesn't exactly make your argument about US corporate greed.

Which raised the question about salaries and it turns out base salaries are not much different in two cities I checked with high costs of living. A job in Paris pays 8-10 Euros while jobs in San Jose I see advertised at $12-14. I can't find that online but I see they also offer a good benefits in the US. IF one wanted to jump on that bandwagon, perhaps it is actually the eeevil corporate powers in France who are subjugating their poor hapless employees for the benefit of their greed by overcharging their downtrodden customers?
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDona ... IM1080.htm


Entry-level positions at McDo seem to pay 9'88/h, but don't forget that comes with full healthcare coverage with no deductible and 4 weeks paid vacation. Burger flippers at a San Diego McD won't get anything close to that.

You're right that people on minimum wage shouldn't be eating out much, though. Certainly not every day. It takes very little time to make lunch for the next day. And if you're in a real rush cheap ramen costs under one buck, and water's free.


Life skills... running a household... in general (with exceptions), poor people are not as skillful. A millionaire is more likely to prepare a healthy meal to save a few bucks, because that requires mental effort, planning and delayed gratification. This is a behavior pattern of rich people. A poor person who acts like this (analytical thinking, planning, discipline) will probably own some businesses before long and turn into one of those deplorable jobs providers.
 
rabenschlag
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:25 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Does anybody realize how much of the poor population have no access to fresh healthy foods. Has no one ever figured out why every fast food corporation heads for the poor neighborhoods. Come on, use your common sense. They refuse to build grocery stores, but they sure do build fast food places. They do not want to pay them, but they will gladly take their welfare money, no problem there. They do not give a shit about anyone's health.


I always heard that "they" tend to build Aldi stores specifically in poor neighborhoods. Plus, Aldi sells affordable produce and legumes (of course, others do too).

Iloveboeing wrote:
The thing is, eating much fast food is really bad for your health. The poor (and everyone else) need to be educated on and encouraged to eat healthy and exercise.


Really? After decades of indoctrination (down to children's songs promoting fruit and vegetables) people still need to be educated? Hard to believe for me. Don't tell me that people smoke because they do not know that smoking is sort of unhealthy.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3718
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:51 am

mham001 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Entry-level positions at McDo seem to pay 9'88/h, but don't forget that comes with full healthcare coverage with no deductible and 4 weeks paid vacation. Burger flippers at a San Diego McD won't get anything close to that.


The benefits seem to be much better than the perception and I'm sure this only applies to full timers in corporate-owned outlets but they advertise this...

[i]A job as a Team Member at a McDonald's Corporate owned restaurant gives you the chance to grow your skills and meet great people, while earning some outstanding benefits opportunities along the way. Those can include:
* Competitive pay
* Medical, dental and vision coverage
* 401k with matching contributions
* Paid time off equal to 2% of gross earnings


2% PTO for a typical 40h week means one week of holiday + sick leave. In France full time positions get 5 weeks paid holiday, and unlimited sick days, and McD still manages to post profits there.

Re: insurance I really doubt it comes anywhere close to the French system of effective zero deductibles and unlimited coverage, except on dental care.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3718
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:02 am

Flighty wrote:
JJJ wrote:
mham001 wrote:

I think you've gone off the deep end here. Lower wages combined with lower meal prices in the US doesn't exactly make your argument about US corporate greed.

Which raised the question about salaries and it turns out base salaries are not much different in two cities I checked with high costs of living. A job in Paris pays 8-10 Euros while jobs in San Jose I see advertised at $12-14. I can't find that online but I see they also offer a good benefits in the US. IF one wanted to jump on that bandwagon, perhaps it is actually the eeevil corporate powers in France who are subjugating their poor hapless employees for the benefit of their greed by overcharging their downtrodden customers?
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDona ... IM1080.htm


Entry-level positions at McDo seem to pay 9'88/h, but don't forget that comes with full healthcare coverage with no deductible and 4 weeks paid vacation. Burger flippers at a San Diego McD won't get anything close to that.

You're right that people on minimum wage shouldn't be eating out much, though. Certainly not every day. It takes very little time to make lunch for the next day. And if you're in a real rush cheap ramen costs under one buck, and water's free.


Life skills... running a household... in general (with exceptions), poor people are not as skillful. A millionaire is more likely to prepare a healthy meal to save a few bucks, because that requires mental effort, planning and delayed gratification. This is a behavior pattern of rich people.


Go to any developing country and you will see people preparing food rather than eating out, even in countries where eating out is incredibly cheap.

It doesn't take a rich person to realise that.
 
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WarRI1
Topic Author
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:43 am

rabenschlag wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Does anybody realize how much of the poor population have no access to fresh healthy foods. Has no one ever figured out why every fast food corporation heads for the poor neighborhoods. Come on, use your common sense. They refuse to build grocery stores, but they sure do build fast food places. They do not want to pay them, but they will gladly take their welfare money, no problem there. They do not give a shit about anyone's health.


I always heard that "they" tend to build Aldi stores specifically in poor neighborhoods. Plus, Aldi sells affordable produce and legumes (of course, others do too).

Iloveboeing wrote:
The thing is, eating much fast food is really bad for your health. The poor (and everyone else) need to be educated on and encouraged to eat healthy and exercise.


Really? After decades of indoctrination (down to children's songs promoting fruit and vegetables) people still need to be educated? Hard to believe for me. Don't tell me that people smoke because they do not know that smoking is sort of unhealthy.




https://blog.mysidewalk.com/the-top-10- ... 5b4001b0dd


This is just a token count most likely. Not too many Aldies around the corner it seems. (They) had better get going.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:17 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Go to Burger King instead. The King of fast food burgers ! More expensive, but better quality.


Only in Norway is BK the best, outside of Norway there's Five Guys, In-an-Out, Wendy's and a whole range of others all better than BK.


Five Guys is incredibly overpriced in Spain and France. A burger, fries and drink will easily set you at 15-20 Euros. So that is about 50-100% more expensive than a comparable McDonald's menu (even one of those Signature ones) in those countries.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:36 pm

I didn't even know Five Guys entered the French market. They must have terrible brand awareness here. BK came back after having left the country for more than a decade, but many people had carried the torch in the meantime, and BK could be experienced in other European countries, so when they came back they had a cult following from the start, and they opened many places very fast. I don't know what Five Guys expects. I see their locations in Paris are where tourists might be.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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seb146
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:05 pm

rabenschlag wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Does anybody realize how much of the poor population have no access to fresh healthy foods. Has no one ever figured out why every fast food corporation heads for the poor neighborhoods. Come on, use your common sense. They refuse to build grocery stores, but they sure do build fast food places. They do not want to pay them, but they will gladly take their welfare money, no problem there. They do not give a shit about anyone's health.


I always heard that "they" tend to build Aldi stores specifically in poor neighborhoods. Plus, Aldi sells affordable produce and legumes (of course, others do too).

Iloveboeing wrote:
The thing is, eating much fast food is really bad for your health. The poor (and everyone else) need to be educated on and encouraged to eat healthy and exercise.


Really? After decades of indoctrination (down to children's songs promoting fruit and vegetables) people still need to be educated? Hard to believe for me. Don't tell me that people smoke because they do not know that smoking is sort of unhealthy.


But when you are hungry right this second and only have like $5, is anyone really going to take the time to browse the store for a nutritious meal for $5 or are they just going to get fat and grease right now? Especially in neighborhoods that only have convenience stores and fast food restaurants? Read up on "food deserts" to understand.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
buzzard302
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:55 am

It's all a big product of he we have evolved as a society. These days, everyone works more hours, has more family and social activity, and generally never stops. We gravitate toward fast food because it is quick and brainless and we don't have to put our phones down (heck we can order the fast food from our phones). I really feel like families don't stop to make a meal and sit down to eat together anymore. A little on a tangent there, but my point is I don't think fast food is going away. It is a bigger industry than ever. To buy food at my local supermarket isn't exactly cheap these days either. I can spend $20-$30 sometimes just to buy ingredients to make dinner for my wife and I. Fast food is cheaper, quicker, (and admittedly less healthy).
 
anrec80
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:51 am

Aesma wrote:
I didn't even know Five Guys entered the French market. They must have terrible brand awareness here. BK came back after having left the country for more than a decade, but many people had carried the torch in the meantime, and BK could be experienced in other European countries, so when they came back they had a cult following from the start, and they opened many places very fast. I don't know what Five Guys expects. I see their locations in Paris are where tourists might be.


What’s good in these 5 guys? Too much, and too greasy. I don’t like them at all. And overall venture to fast food rather rarely.
 
marcelh
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Re: Poor Americans, huge problem for Wendy's, McDonalds

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:25 am

buzzard302 wrote:
Fast food is cheaper


Maybe in the US, but definitely not in Europe where I live. I can make a decent dinner with fresh ingredients easily for less than €10,- for two persons. Two menus @McD costs at least €13,-.
When a society thinks that fast food is a full-fledged meal, that society is in decline.

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