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believeinflight
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Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:23 am

Hey, so who do you guys think is the better president, Obama or Trump?
 
Ken777
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:54 am

Not even close - and it's not the guy who buys hairspray by the case.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:55 am

A simple choice, do you like rude, crude and lewd, or a gentleman, someone who acts Presidential? Do you want trillion dollar tax breaks for the wealthy, alienation of long time allies, kissing Putin's ass along with North Korea's Dictator and resident madman and a steady diet of lies, lies and more lies? Do you want discord, confusion and convicted Felons in the White House or on the team in the White House? Do you want a President who grabs women by *************** and brags about it. Do you want a man who fans separation politics, fans White Supremacy and insults people over handicaps, speaking abilities, intelligence and hates and preach's that the free press is an enemy of the people? Now that sounds like Putin and all Despots in history. I could go on and on, but hey why? I will also add, a man who uses Air force One like his personal aircraft flying off to play golf after years of his Acolytes bitching over Obama going on vacation. I sure hope the Democrats are keeping track of all these flights and hours wasted for a game and the costs.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
cpd
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:49 am

Obama for sure.

There are very few politicians I respect, he is one of those few. Most are just in it for themselves, stay in power, live the good life.

Compare him against some of the slimey, untrustworthy politicians in my country.
Last edited by cpd on Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:51 am

Obama is gone, Trump is the current president. If you want to change that, there are procedures in place to get rid of him (please do) or go and make sure that the midterms will be a success for the Democrats. ;-)
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:35 am

Keep this thread civil. Moderators will be monitoring it and we will ban if:
1. You discuss other users or do personal attacks.
2. You post messages that attack other groups (Flamebait).

Read the forum rules, this is the one warning.
Winter is coming.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:40 am

There are already 6 other Trump threads on the first page alone. Do we really need another?
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:21 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
There are already 6 other Trump threads on the first page alone. Do we really need another?
Maybe we should just call it the correct post 2008 president? :D
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
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seb146
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:46 pm

Don't let me interrupt. I am just here for the comments. *grabs popcorn*
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
MikeDrop
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:59 pm

believeinflight wrote:
Hey, so who do you guys think is the better president, Obama or Trump?

Let's have a real discussion. What criteria do you propose to use for this analysis?

I propose the following 5 criteria:
1) budget deficit (lower is better)
2) unemployment rate (lower is better)
3) number of Americans killed in terrorist attacks (lower is better)
4) size of the federal workforce (lower is better)
5) S&P500 index - higher growth is better

What other criteria would you suggest?

Mike Drop
 
Airstud
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:29 pm

It goes without saying that of the two, Obama is the better president; and I voted against him both times.

A big part of being President is being an adult. Game over.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
wingman
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:31 pm

If we agree to go with your limited and 80% economy-focused criteria let's make sure to keep it real by judging it on the percentage decline or improvement over the course of the presidency. And to make it truly apples to apples let's see if Trump goes two terms. First, that's not looking very likely and second, for Trump to "beat" Obama in positive percentage terms across all criteria would more than likely mean he'd presided over the greatest economic expansion in United States history. I believe most economists would argue that is more unlikely than Trump winning a second term. For starters you could research what the percentage performance was for Obama from his first term election (or assumption of office if you prefer) and lay those out next to each criteria (trust me, this will be an exceedingly painful thing for you and will cause great anguish). Next you can lay out the same percentage gains since Trump won the election or assumed office..just keep the start mark equal. Then we can see how much better he needs to do to equal or surpass Obama, or how much breathing room he has to maintain his lead.

One inherent issue you'll need to overcome both mentally and emotionally is that your leader claims that all numbers under Obama were fake. So if they were fake then but real now then what really is real anymore? Is this post real, is A.net real? You see the problem right? On the bright side, all the fakeness might possibly mean Trump isn't really the President, and yet every day I see his fat orange head and disgusting sneer everywhere I turn. So I say Israel bro! Trump is real and so are the numbers on Obama, so go fetch 'em for us and let's start the great Economic Performance Tracker thread!
 
Flighty
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:55 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
believeinflight wrote:
Hey, so who do you guys think is the better president, Obama or Trump?

Let's have a real discussion. What criteria do you propose to use for this analysis?

I propose the following 5 criteria:
1) budget deficit (lower is better)
2) unemployment rate (lower is better)
3) number of Americans killed in terrorist attacks (lower is better)
4) size of the federal workforce (lower is better)
5) S&P500 index - higher growth is better

What other criteria would you suggest?

Mike Drop


I am fine with that. I think higher wages for the median family are a paramount issue. NAFTA, a tight border, and worksite inspections by ICE play directly into high wages for US nationals, and that is perfect politics. Americans do not want food stamps, they want to make a good living - to own their homes and buy new cars once in a while. Oh yeah - and retire someday. These are MIDDLE class expectations.

I don't think Trump is a Republican, anyway. I think Trump is juvenile, a boor and even a fool but he had the right 50,000 foot vision. The American people knew exactly what to expect from him and he has delivered. Amateurishly. But at least his agenda was on the right track. And I think he can win another election. It depends if people even want to go back to a middle class country, or if we are instead going to become another Brazil.

I think Obama is a nice guy and smart dignified man who had a B-minus / C-plus presidency. The overall tone was inevitable decline and poverty for all. $10 trillion in new debt. Unfocused and unclear foreign policy agenda. Failure to recognize China as a global strategic foe. Failure to recognize Russia threat. Lots of self congratulation. He didn't understand business, which is the engine that keeps Americans healthy and happy, not the government.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:57 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
believeinflight wrote:
Hey, so who do you guys think is the better president, Obama or Trump?

Let's have a real discussion. What criteria do you propose to use for this analysis?

I propose the following 5 criteria:
1) budget deficit (lower is better)
2) unemployment rate (lower is better)
3) number of Americans killed in terrorist attacks (lower is better)
4) size of the federal workforce (lower is better)
5) S&P500 index - higher growth is better

What other criteria would you suggest?

Mike Drop


The current economy is quite a bad way to determine if a current government is doing a good or bad job. The economy is depended on quite a few things which fundamentals are laid down by previous administrations in the US case, good or bad.

So we had the worst economic downturn since the 1930-ish. One of the reasons was a law which was changed two presidents - Clinton - ago and the world economy. Are you going to blame Obama for that? Same with Trump, the recession is over, the world economy is booming again. Is this thanks to Trump - maybe - is this regardless of Trump - maybe -. In truth, unless a president does something very dramatic (like starting a trade war), an administration has limited control over a free economy on the short term, on the long term it is a different story.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:15 pm

It seems it is more important in what state you live then who the current president is.
 
Okie
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:23 pm

I am just thinking near term.

If the democrat socialist party wins the house that will put Maxine Waters as head of the Economic and Commerce Committee.

Does that sound like a recipe for success or what? :rotfl:

Okie.
 
MikeDrop
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:47 pm

wingman wrote:
If we agree to go with your limited and 80% economy-focused criteria let's make sure to keep it real by judging it on the percentage decline or improvement over the course of the presidency.


If you don't agree with the criteria then you could suggest others. We can add to mine or delete mine entirely, I don't really care. I just think that it would be good to agree on a set of criteria. And, I'd suggest that we assess each criteria at the same point in each one's presidency. Since Trump is 20 months into his presidency we look at the first 20 months for both.


wingman wrote:
One inherent issue you'll need to overcome both mentally and emotionally is that your leader claims that all numbers under Obama were fake.


Lets first agree on the criteria and then we can worry about what data to use. To be objective will require that neither Trump or Obama are the source of the data.

Mike Drop
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:01 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
There are already 6 other Trump threads on the first page alone. Do we really need another?


I agree, but are you surprised? There’s always some unprecedented insanity coming from the Trump administration on a daily basis. People are in shock. It’s a soap opera with a new episode every day.
 
wingman
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:41 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
Since Trump is 20 months into his presidency we look at the first 20 months for both.Mike Drop


Nice try but the first year of Obama's tenure was the Great Recession..and who cares if the Cowboys are up in Q1, what matters is that they suck by the end of Q4 (yaaaay!).

Here's what looks like a pretty good place to start with Obama. Not all KPIs have the percentage rise or fall from Day 1 in Office like I'd prefer to view them but just a couple of 'em really pop man: corporate profits up a stunning 57% to $1.7T in total (poor corporations, they suffered so much under Obama!)), S&P up 166% (who's your daddy now?), family household income (+5.3%), unemployment rate down by 38% (from 7.8% to 4.8%). 11.6MM new jobs, uninsured down to historic lows (I know this is considered a negative record by the GOP), but offset by lower premium growth, lower illegal immigration, massive growth in firearms production (shit, just looking at the numbers Obama could well be a Conservative Republican Super Hero!).

Anyway, I digress with some much editorializing. Trump said today he has a magic wand and tried to pull an expeliamos on historical fact by claiming that his GDP outpaced unemployment for the first time in 100 years (something even Fox News had to admit was a lie of almost stupefying proportions). Bottom line, Obama will go down as one the truly great Presidents according to your very own criteria (and so much more). This link is real and the numbers don't lie. For Trump to beat this performance over 8 years he will, as I said below, have to preside over the greatest economic miracle since our nation's founding. Good luck chief.

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/09/obamas-final-numbers/
 
BN747
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:27 pm

Airstud wrote:
It goes without saying that of the two, Obama is the better president; and I voted against him both times.

A big part of being President is being an adult. Game over.



Now there's a man who owns up a truth many people cannot bring themselves to do.

Respect

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Flighty
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:34 pm

If a barking dog as president gets a better result than a man, then I vote for the barking dog to be president. I don't think it is a coherent argument that Obama is a cool guy, therefore he was a better president. That's not a complete argument at all.
 
believeinflight
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:26 pm

I agree that Trump is unable to be a president. How can he run the country (and the world to some extent given the US is a superpower) if he can't fulfill his basic obligations as a human being to respect the dignity of others (women, disabled, racial minorities)?
 
wingman
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:40 am

Flighty wrote:
I don't think it is a coherent argument that Obama is a cool guy, therefore he was a better president. That's not a complete argument at all.


Just read the link I posted et voila, you can agree with a coherent argument based on 8 years of unbiased facts. Again, it doesn't dispel the myth that Obama is a cool black dude but they're still working on how to help white people with that one. The shit is like an unhittable curve ball, so uncomfortable right?!
 
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johnboy
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:17 am

I nominate wingman’s post(s) as Best in Show!

Can we come up with moral dimensions as a measure? You know, # of lies on a daily basis, etc? Seems amorality is big amongst some people these days (no names, PLEASE!)
 
stratosphere
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:25 am

I think it is too early to render a decision on who is the best lets have this discussion after Trump has 8 years go at it...One thing they both have in common especially after watching Obamas speeches as of late they both have hyper inflated egos and like to blow their own horn. There is certainly a lot to dislike about Trump his twittering drives me nuts and is a lot of times immature he most certainly gets butt hurt easy. But I do like some of the things he is doing I like that he is calling some of the world to task even if they are our allies we have been paying the freight for the world for far too long also I like that he is rolling back "some" of the regulations on businesses my father had a small business in NJ and let me tell you that state is brutal on small business my father closed his shop because of all the stupid regulations liberal regulators imposed on him. Obama well he is a great orator I will give him that but he stoked the flames of racial hatred even more than they already were IMHO. His world apology tour didn't sit well with me either. But Obama did inherit a mess from Bush who I directly blame for a lot of misery in my life. His going into Iraq was a huge mistake and I knew it was going to be hell on airline employees due to the clauses in our union contracts and it was. Airline management used the act of war clause to decimate our contracts and kick people to the street. Not to mention the blood spilled of the people on both sides all pretty much for nothing as well as destabilizing the middle east. Sorry for the thread drift.
 
Flighty
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:08 pm

stratosphere wrote:
I think it is too early to render a decision on who is the best lets have this discussion after Trump has 8 years go at it...One thing they both have in common especially after watching Obamas speeches as of late they both have hyper inflated egos and like to blow their own horn. There is certainly a lot to dislike about Trump his twittering drives me nuts and is a lot of times immature he most certainly gets butt hurt easy. But I do like some of the things he is doing I like that he is calling some of the world to task even if they are our allies we have been paying the freight for the world for far too long also I like that he is rolling back "some" of the regulations on businesses my father had a small business in NJ and let me tell you that state is brutal on small business my father closed his shop because of all the stupid regulations liberal regulators imposed on him. Obama well he is a great orator I will give him that but he stoked the flames of racial hatred even more than they already were IMHO. His world apology tour didn't sit well with me either. But Obama did inherit a mess from Bush who I directly blame for a lot of misery in my life. His going into Iraq was a huge mistake and I knew it was going to be hell on airline employees due to the clauses in our union contracts and it was. Airline management used the act of war clause to decimate our contracts and kick people to the street. Not to mention the blood spilled of the people on both sides all pretty much for nothing as well as destabilizing the middle east. Sorry for the thread drift.


There is no question that Obama was a better president than Bush. I voted for Obama both times. However he wasn't a "good" president. That part doesn't matter. He wasn't a murderer but he was inept in many ways. Trump is inept in different ways. Politically he has done just fine. He has outsmarted many people - interesting how stupid they really are, isn't it? To be outsmarted by Trump?

Nobody has even said they are sorry for being so incompetent that they got beaten by Trump and lost intellectual arguments to him. If you lose a legal argument to him, you ought to lose your law degree forever. If you lose a political race to him, you ought to quit politics forever and try to teach others what you did wrong. I don't see that. Instead, everything is Trump's fault. This, I really don't agree with. He is doing a job he was elected to do.

We'll see what the midterms bring. My guess? Communism. The kids are into it, they want to try it. It's the cool thing right now.
 
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DL717
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:39 pm

Obama brought us Trump, so consider that when making your choice.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:29 pm

Trump can't even get to 50% approval. Trump's approval is below 40. He is so weak. Obama is so much stronger. His approval is currently in the 60% mark.

Trump can't even build a wall.
His only economic victories have come at the expense of Expanding the deficit and debt during a NON recession.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
A3801000
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:32 pm

A caricature of a president today on his way to the Memorial for flight 93, in all his dignity and gravitas:

Image
 
727LOVER
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:44 pm

DL717 wrote:
Obama brought us Trump, so consider that when making your choice.


Obama went out @ 60% approval...so consider THAT


DL717 wrote:
Obama brought us Trump, so consider that when making your choice.


Bush brought us Obama.....and Theresa what's-her-face brought us Bush.....so what's your point?????????



Although, you're kind of correct...Obama brought us Trump....all those ANGRY WHITE MEN that couldn't stand the black man as president, voted for the white nationalist guy....out of all 16 of those other GOP candidates






stratosphere wrote:
I think it is too early to render a decision on who is the best lets have this discussion after Trump has 8 years go at it...One thing they both have in common especially after watching Obamas speeches as of late they both have hyper inflated egos and like to blow their own horn.


You have the unmitigated gall to compare Obama's ego with Trump's ??????!?!! That just because you HATE him so much




Flighty wrote:
There is no question that Obama was a better president than Bush.



Presidential historians have Obama @ #12....Bush Jr @ #33.....so, YEP
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
A3801000
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:59 pm

A3801000 wrote:
A caricature of a president today on his way to the Memorial for flight 93, in all his dignity and gravitas:

Image


Looks like he improved during the day :roll:

Image
 
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Tugger
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:12 pm

johnboy wrote:
I nominate wingman’s post(s) as Best in Show!

Can we come up with moral dimensions as a measure? You know, # of lies on a daily basis, etc? Seems amorality is big amongst some people these days (no names, PLEASE!)

How about days golfing? Or away on "vacation"?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:24 pm

casinterest wrote:
Trump can't even build a wall.


I wonder if we should open a new thread enumerating what Trumps has promised and what really has come to pass.
Clearly, a wall has not been built. How about those tariffs? Are we really sure tariffs have in fact been implemented, or is it just bluster? How about all those other promises?
 
Alias1024
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:45 pm

In many ways being president is like being a CEO of a major corporation. Your job is to determine and implement high level strategy, put the right people in the right leadership positions, and give them guidance and support as necessary.

In terms of high level strategy I think it's a mixed bag for both. Obama started strong. Avoiding economic depression and setting the groundwork for what has been an unprecedented run of economic growth was job #1. Passage of the Affordable Care Act, though it fell short of the hopes of many liberals, was a huge achievement. When the GOP got control of congress the progress on his agenda naturally slowed considerably. In the second term foreign policy became muddled. I think there was a clear strategy of ally building in his foreign policy from day one, but Crimea and Syria proved to be puzzles he never figured out. I'm still not sure what his end game was in those conflicts.

Trump has had a rockier start, but there's still a lot of time left. The tax bill and judicial nominees have been big wins on major priorities for the GOP, but the failure to repeal the Affordable Care Act with GOP majorities in both houses has to be seen as huge failure. His foreign policy is schizophrenic. He sweet talks dictators and authoritarians, while simultaneously threatening annihilation on twitter. There doesn't seem to be a real strategy. We'll see how the next couple years go for Trump as far as getting his priorities done.

Where Obama has Trump beat my a wide margin in my mind is his handling of his staff and Cabinet secretaries. Every administration has some turnover, but the last year and a half have been absurd. Not only has there been huge turnover both in the White House and the Cabinet, but Trump doesn't seem to be on the same page as his own people. Look at what's happened with AG Sessions, or Trump publicly undercutting Rex Tillerson when he was Secretary of State, or his first Chief of Staff lasting seven months. From the outside, this administration looks like it is being held together with duct tape, chicken wire, and chewing gum.

People will disagree on the wisdom of specific policies, but when it comes down to getting policy objectives done and being an able leader of a huge organization I give the edge to Obama.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
marcelh
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:38 pm

DL717 wrote:
Obama brought us Trump, so consider that when making your choice.

The Republicans brought you Trump and will you bring the Evangelicals. From worse to worst.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:47 pm

At least Trump has better international policies than Obama. Blocking Iran, supporting progressive allies Israel and Saudi Arabia and keeping China or Turkey at bay. Too bad he hasn't invaded Venezuela yet to bring democracy there. I just don't like how he flirts with Russia; Putin is an enemy of the free world supporting El-Assad.

Trump clearly wants to bring peace to the world. Obama just wanted to make economic deals with evil regimes and terrorist organisations like the Ayatollahs and Hezbollah. Putting profit above human rights. Terrible.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:25 am

SCQ83 wrote:
At least Trump has better international policies than Obama. Blocking Iran, supporting progressive allies Israel and Saudi Arabia and keeping China or Turkey at bay. Too bad he hasn't invaded Venezuela yet to bring democracy there. I just don't like how he flirts with Russia; Putin is an enemy of the free world supporting El-Assad.

Trump clearly wants to bring peace to the world. Obama just wanted to make economic deals with evil regimes and terrorist organisations like the Ayatollahs and Hezbollah. Putting profit above human rights. Terrible.



I have never been a drinker of the Kool Ade, surely you jest? In fact, I can give you the address of the nearest Recruiting Office so you can be in the front line of that invasion you look forward to. You did redeem yourself somewhat with the remark about Putin and Russia. You are correct there.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Airstud
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Re: Obama vs Trump

Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:14 am

Tugger wrote:
johnboy wrote:
I nominate wingman’s post(s) as Best in Show!

Can we come up with moral dimensions as a measure? You know, # of lies on a daily basis, etc? Seems amorality is big amongst some people these days (no names, PLEASE!)

How about days golfing? Or away on "vacation"?

Tugg


Obama golfed for six hours while the Gulf of Mexico was dying...
Pancakes are delicious.

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