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Mortyman
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US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:45 pm

Trump Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration threatened the International Criminal Court with sanctions if it pursued an investigation of American troops in Afghanistan, opening a harsh new attack on an old nemesis of many on the political right.

“The United States will use any means necessary to protect our citizens and those of our allies from unjust prosecution by this illegitimate court,” President Trump’s national security adviser, John R. Bolton, said in a speech on Monday in Washington.

“We will ban its judges and prosecutors from entering the United States,” Mr. Bolton said. “We will sanction their funds in the U.S. financial system, and, we will prosecute them in the U.S. criminal system. We will do the same for any company or state that assists in an I.C.C. investigation of Americans.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/us/p ... e=Homepage
 
sbworcs
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:56 pm

So basically they are saying that American's should never be investigated by the ICC and anyone who helps do so (company or personal) will face sanctions?

I would have no issues with the ICC investigating any UK citizens or companies and prosecuting them fully if their was evidence of wrongdoing,

Yet another way to isolate America from the rest of the world.
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petertenthije
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:43 pm

This is old news, Bush the lesser signed the American Service-Members' Protection Act (aka the “The Hague invasion act”).

Not a surprise either that this reminder comes from John Bolton. He was always well known for respecting international treaties and conventions. Had the ICC not been a toothless tiger, then the ICC might well have asked Bolton to explain his actions in the lead-up to the second gulf war.
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moo
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:18 am

"Justice is something we impose on others, not something we ourselves suffer" - basically sums up the US stance.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:21 am

When you have as many criminals as the Buffoon has working for him or his constant campaign to raise funds, would you want an International Court watching all those trips between Moscow and the Islands where the money or the deals take place?
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
anrec80
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:55 am

sbworcs wrote:
So basically they are saying that American's should never be investigated by the ICC and anyone who helps do so (company or personal) will face sanctions?

I would have no issues with the ICC investigating any UK citizens or companies and prosecuting them fully if their was evidence of wrongdoing,

Yet another way to isolate America from the rest of the world.


Yeah, some more sanctions threats to allies. If this continues, the USA will run out of allies before long.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:24 am

moo wrote:
"Justice is something we impose on others, not something we ourselves suffer" - basically sums up the US stance.



Indeed
 
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moo
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:30 am

WarRI1 wrote:
When you have as many criminals as the Buffoon has working for him or his constant campaign to raise funds, would you want an International Court watching all those trips between Moscow and the Islands where the money or the deals take place?


The problem is, successive US administrations have had this stance since time began, its not just a Trump thing - the US even refused to send servicemen to British coroners courts for inquests into blue-on-blue deaths in Iraq.
 
kaitak
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:41 pm

It is actually more serious than this, because the US also includes Israel in this. So, if the ICC indicted Israeli government officials over atrocities in the west bank and an ICC signatory state were to act on an arrest warrant, then the US is basically saying that it would impose sanctions against that state.

So, what if the country were an EU member state, or a NATO member? Would the US impose sanctions against a current ally. Does any other country in the world take precedence over Israel in the current administration's eyes? It seems willing to tear up any agreement with any other country to please the Israelis.

This has the potential to become very nasty.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:38 am

The Declaration of Independence

Image
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tommy1808
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:07 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Declaration of Independence]


Independent from law and accountability, well, with the current administration that must be it?
And since when does the declaration of independence matter outside the US? Or in Israel?

And .. oh the Irony couldn´t be bigger.... a document that is basically an indictment against King George for violating the colonist rights is used to justify shielding US citizens from procecution for violating human rights..... Orwell is so proud of you!

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MaverickM11
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:19 am

The unaccountable deaths of Iraqis, Afghans, Yemeni, West Africans, etc etc god knows what else--and US service members--will continue until morale and love for freedom & 'murrica improves.

moo wrote:
"Justice is something we impose on others, not something we ourselves suffer" - basically sums up the US stance.

If Devos-Prince can't murder Arabs for profit then Jesus will not see his shadow and there will be six more weeks of political correctness. SAD!
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tommy1808
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:24 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
The unaccountable deaths of Iraqis, Afghans, Yemeni, West Africans, etc etc god knows what else--and US service members--will continue until morale improves!


Its also putting Service members at risk that may go away if the bad apples faced consequences. Without justice for all the 2nd amendment would imply that using arms against them is just peachy.... or are rights just for Americans as superior race?

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einsteinboricua
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:21 pm

The position the US takes with the ICC is similar to that parent in school who has the principal's ear and manages to discipline students that mess with their own kids, but refuses to allow the school to discipline theirs.

No wonder African nations want out of the ICC.
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WarRI1
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:59 am

moo wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
When you have as many criminals as the Buffoon has working for him or his constant campaign to raise funds, would you want an International Court watching all those trips between Moscow and the Islands where the money or the deals take place?


The problem is, successive US administrations have had this stance since time began, its not just a Trump thing - the US even refused to send servicemen to British coroners courts for inquests into blue-on-blue deaths in Iraq.



I guess I should have said (tongue in cheek).
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Dutchy
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 am

petertenthije wrote:
This is old news, Bush the lesser signed the American Service-Members' Protection Act (aka the “The Hague invasion act”).


Yes indeed, US has been threatening The Netherlands in this way and is doing again. The US shouldnot be above the law. If the US would prosecute these people itself, they wouldn't be investigated by the ICC.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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zkojq
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:32 pm

Justice only works if both the big fish and the small minnows are held accountable for their actions. At the end of the day this is one of the many "nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong" kind of situations.

Speaking of accountability, when will the US hold John Bolton, Dick Cheney and their cronies accountable for invading the wrong country and all the hundreds of thousands of deaths that it lead to?
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Flighty
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:38 pm

zkojq wrote:
Justice only works if both the big fish and the small minnows are held accountable for their actions. At the end of the day this is one of the many "nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong" kind of situations.

Speaking of accountability, when will the US hold John Bolton, Dick Cheney and their cronies accountable for invading the wrong country and all the hundreds of thousands of deaths that it lead to?


They won't be alive much longer due to age (at least Dick Cheney won't), but each person in power today should be asked, what did you do to stop the war? What did you do to make sure these animals were brought to justice?

Within the next 8-10 years, as history settles over the post-9/11 period, history classes in US schools will view the Gulf War in its context with Vietnam and Korean Conflict. And in context with World War II, an illegal war of aggression largely based on race.

The Gulf War will fare extremely poorly in this context. More and more, the transfer of blame for 9/11 to Iraq will be implicated as hate (what, other than ethnic hate, can explain this transfer of 9/11 blame to Iraq?). This will be placed alongside other racial scapegoating in the 20th century.

I think gradually all Americans will agree that Gulf War architects need to be imprisoned. Accountability. Accountability is what the present moment is always based upon! How can we respect anybody today unless we look what they did and said before?
 
snasteve
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:47 pm

anrec80 wrote:
sbworcs wrote:
So basically they are saying that American's should never be investigated by the ICC and anyone who helps do so (company or personal) will face sanctions?

I would have no issues with the ICC investigating any UK citizens or companies and prosecuting them fully if their was evidence of wrongdoing,

Yet another way to isolate America from the rest of the world.


Yeah, some more sanctions threats to allies. If this continues, the USA will run out of allies before long.


Yup, that's the intent here. Seems the only people who did their homework on Trump are also helping themselves to vote here. Putin & co.
 
anrec80
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:28 pm

snastevе wrote:

Yup, that's the intent here. Seems the only people who did their homework on Trump are also helping themselves to vote here. Putin & co.


I can’t get rid of a sense that Trump’s admin is trying to kill everyone in Kremlin from cirrhosis of the liver. Over the past years they’ve made Kremlin so many strategic gifts that they can’t stop partying over and celebrating. And have no reasons to.

Strategic goal of Putin - is to have the whole Eurasian continent friendly to him, and the USA - out entirely, or at least mostly. And Trump is doing all he can to help - Putin and his allies to build alternate trade and finance ecosystems, and they have successes on this way. Sanctions against Russia, Iran are a great helping hand. Threats of sanctions to Europeans - and he is pressing them - “see? Yet yesterday you believed you won’t be subject to this, now you are!”. Trade wars work for him as well.
 
anrec80
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:39 am

Dutchy wrote:

Yes indeed, US has been threatening The Netherlands in this way and is doing again. The US shouldnot be above the law. If the US would prosecute these people itself, they wouldn't be investigated by the ICC.


This is something you should tell to the governing elites in Washington - the idea of the USA not being above the law isn’t popular there at all. A lot depends on them being above the law (or lawmakers for that reason) for them. It’s critical for them to make any nation do what they like at any moment of time.

Well - you don’t want them to be above the law. What means do you (Europe for that reason) to make them abide the law, whatever that is? The answer is “zero”, sorry. “Dictator regimes” like Russia, North Korea, Iran have, and they can make this “hegemon” listen to them, do what’s in their interests regardless of their opinion. In these regards - they are your best allies. Europe does not like these pressures lately, but the planet is small, except Putin it has no place to look for help. He’s your best ally in today’s situation - like it or not.

Syria is an example - sound geopolitical defeat for the USA. Maybe this is why those are “dictatorships” and Saudi Arabia is an “ally”?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:39 am

anrec80 wrote:
Europe does not like these pressures lately, but the planet is small, except Putin it has no place to look for help. He’s your best ally in today’s situation - like it or not.


Will Putin's regime extradite its citizens to the ICC? Great!
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:30 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Will Putin's regime extradite its citizens to the ICC? Great!


No, he is the your best ally in helping you get out of dictate and pressure from the USA the EU is under now (not only this ICC thing). They are resisting it successfully, you - not so much. And you obviously don't like it. So you have two options really - either talk with "Putin's regime" how to better resist these sanction pressures and blackmailing (possibly together), or just keep doing what you are being told. Or better yet - regain sovereignty.

But keep in mind about the latter case - these demands will keep increasing to the point where you will not be able to fulfill one of the rounds.
 
tommy1808
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Re: US Administration Threatens International Criminal Court

Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:25 am

anrec80 wrote:
either talk with "Putin's regime" how to better resist these sanction pressures and blackmailing (possibly together),.


Why would anyone care how a Pariah state like Russia or North Korea resists justified and legal sanctions vs. how to resist illegal sanctions? There are, slow but reliable, mechanisms to deal with illegal sanctions, that Russia can´t use because they are the illegal actor.

Russia knows that, that is why they spend so much time trying to influance public opinnion in the west with their cyberwarfare.

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Thomas
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