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alberchico
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New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale (pics)

Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:20 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQQLYrN7PhQ

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/lifestyle ... -revealed/

https://www.carspiritpk.com/2018/08/30/ ... limousine/

I like this car. Looks like a Rolls Royce for those who can't afford Rolls Royce's. But their business plan is fatally flawed. Most wealthy Russians will not give up their fleets of Mercedes and BMW's to ride in this car. A few will buy it to show their loyalty to the govt but that's about it. Does anyone think this car has a chance on the export market ?

Image
Image
Last edited by SQ22 on Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Typo fixed
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Dutchy
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:59 pm

Not a chance. It looks like a cheap Chinese rip off. The only thing you will show riding one of these is: I can't afford the real thing and I am flashy.
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anrec80
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:40 am

alberchico wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQQLYrN7PhQ

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/lifestyle ... -revealed/

https://www.carspiritpk.com/2018/08/30/ ... limousine/

I like this car. Looks like a Rolls Royce for those who can't afford Rolls Royce's. But their business plan is fatally flawed. Most wealthy Russians will not give up their fleets of Mercedes and BMW's to ride in this car. A few will buy it to show their loyalty to the govt but that's about it. Does anyone think this car has a chance on the export market ?

Image
Image


Well - there are a few extravagant individuals everywhere that will like to buy something one of a kind - and this car isn't an exception. Good thing is that these luxury things don't need expensive mass-marketing, and sale success depends more on networking skills of sales managers with potential wealthy (or even upper middle class) clients.

Chances on export markets depend on dealership network, service and parts availability, mostly. These are the areas where pretty much all of Russian exports (airplanes included) have been considerably lagging. Another question a potential buyer would probably have - what's service and parts availability story for those? Where and how parts are being sourced and who will maintain and repair the vehicles?
 
anrec80
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:45 am

Dutchy wrote:
Not a chance. It looks like a cheap Chinese rip off. The only thing you will show riding one of these is: I can't afford the real thing and I am flashy.


Maybe - but it's the first iteration, very first release. Toyota also when first came to world markers was much more of an "ugly duckling" out there. We are yet to see how Aurus will keep their quality, how will they handle customer improvement requests (e.g. will they provide higher quality premium materials or start saving by installing lower grade ones), will they be thorough at building them or taking shortcuts here and there. They need to build up reliability and durability reputation as well, parts and service availability, build quality and consistency. Russian-built vehicles have reputation for sub-zero corrosion resistance, I am the most curious if this one changes that.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:52 am

:eek: One would hope no secrets, business or government are discussed in it.
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Aesma
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:51 am

I wonder if Rolls will bother to take them to court over this blatant rip-off, or if they'll let it slide, no need to make them any publicity !

The Phantom walks a fine line between different and ugly, this copy falls off to the ugly side though.
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:51 am

alberchico wrote:
Image

I don't get the cross-eyed dash display.....

Honestly, this car will have to go years, develop a good reputation in it's home market to even have any kind of a chance outside of that. And then it will need to have an excellent parts distribution and maintenance network. In one word, it will have to demonstrate: durability. Being a pretty obvious copy of another world class car is not the best way to start. Create your own vision, not follow another's.

Tugg
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:00 am

It looks like a rebadged Geely GE

Image
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TSS
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:55 am

Tugger wrote:
alberchico wrote:
Image

I don't get the cross-eyed dash display.....

In Russia, instruments look at YOU!
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Kiwirob
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:33 am

For those who think this isn't going to work think again, the Russia govt has a fleet of thousands of Mercedes S class and Audi A8's, they buy hundreds of new cars in this class every year, all of these will now changed over to the Aurus, all the body guard vehicles will be changed over to Aurus, they have a ready made market. It will also sell in the CIS countries, probably Iran as well.

These cars unlike most other high end luxury sedans were also designed from the ground up to be armoured, which no one else does, they add the armour after, whereas with the Aurus it can be integral.

It looks more like a Bentley Mulsanne than a Rolls Royce, it was engineered with the help of Porsche, so it's going to be half decent to drive.
 
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:40 am

Dutchy wrote:
Not a chance. It looks like a cheap Chinese rip off. The only thing you will show riding one of these is: I can't afford the real thing and I am flashy.


Extremely wealthy Japanese people forgo European vehicles for the Toyota Century, it's only sold in the home market and in limited numbers, wealthy Japanese have been buying them for decades. It also helps the the Emperor also uses them, as does Putin the Aurus, its the halo effect.

Image
 
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scbriml
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:10 am

Butt ugly.

This will be the car equivalent of the Sukhoi SSJ. Those brave enough outside Russia to buy it will find poor service and support. Good luck getting spare parts.
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L410Turbolet
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:54 am

Kiwirob wrote:
For those who think this isn't going to work think again, the Russia govt has a fleet of thousands of Mercedes S class and Audi A8's, they buy hundreds of new cars in this class every year, all of these will now changed over to the Aurus, all the body guard vehicles will be changed over to Aurus, they have a ready made market. It will also sell in the CIS countries, probably Iran as well.


That makes as much sense as saying SSJ is a "success" because Russian airlines were forced to buy it.

Kiwirob wrote:
it was engineered with the help of Porsche

...as was Lada Samara.It was p.o.s. regardless.
 
trijetsonly
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:04 am

It looks like spare parts from the current Chrysler 300 might also fit.
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Dutchy
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:31 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Not a chance. It looks like a cheap Chinese rip off. The only thing you will show riding one of these is: I can't afford the real thing and I am flashy.


Maybe - but it's the first iteration, very first release. Toyota also when first came to world markers was much more of an "ugly duckling" out there. We are yet to see how Aurus will keep their quality, how will they handle customer improvement requests (e.g. will they provide higher quality premium materials or start saving by installing lower grade ones), will they be thorough at building them or taking shortcuts here and there. They need to build up reliability and durability reputation as well, parts and service availability, build quality and consistency. Russian-built vehicles have reputation for sub-zero corrosion resistance, I am the most curious if this one changes that.


If you want to charge $US 200.000+ for a car, you better make sure you are giving top marks in quality and customer care department. Perhaps in Russia, it will give some status because Putin uses it as his official car, but in the rest of the world not so much. If you are going to spend that kind of money on a car, it shouldn't make that much of a difference to go to the $US 350.000+ mark for the genuine thing: Rolls Royce. :)
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VSMUT
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:35 am

alberchico wrote:
But their business plan is fatally flawed. Most wealthy Russians will not give up their fleets of Mercedes and BMW's to ride in this car. A few will buy it to show their loyalty to the govt but that's about it. Does anyone think this car has a chance on the export market?


I think you are looking at it from the wrong perspective.

IMHO, it was kick-started in part because of a wish for Russian state officials to drive a home-made car, rather than imported German cars, or Soviet-era ZiILs. Ridiculous you might say, but then again, how would you feel if the US President and all US officials were to drive about in imported Mercedes', or 1980s Lincoln Continentals?

Second, this is likely a niche product, and the massive Russian state bureaucracy should have no issues soaking up a few decades worth of production of this car. Everyone from Putin, through ministers, members of parliament, aides, heads of departments and generals will be potential receivers. Then you have Russian client states too, like Belarus or Syria.
 
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:46 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
For those who think this isn't going to work think again, the Russia govt has a fleet of thousands of Mercedes S class and Audi A8's, they buy hundreds of new cars in this class every year, all of these will now changed over to the Aurus, all the body guard vehicles will be changed over to Aurus, they have a ready made market. It will also sell in the CIS countries, probably Iran as well.


That makes as much sense as saying SSJ is a "success" because Russian airlines were forced to buy it.


That's a strawman argument. Aurus have a ready made market in which to sell a lot of cars every year, that makes it a success, winning market off the incumbents. Audi and Mercedes will be the big losers.

L410Turbolet wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
it was engineered with the help of Porsche

...as was Lada Samara.It was p.o.s. regardless.


Porsche designed the head for the Samara's engine, that's all. The only Samara which had anything else to do with Porsche was this one, the T3 is basically a Paris Dakar spec Porsche 959 with a Samara styled body on top.

Image
 
A3801000
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:05 am

If you think any high ranking russian official is going to be seen in one of them (unless obligated/photo op) you don't know Russia nor Russians. Won't make a dent in Mercedes or Audi sales.
 
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:24 am

It will because the Russia govt will be buying these and not German sedans for there high ranking officials.
 
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:04 am

Kiwirob wrote:
For those who think this isn't going to work think again, the Russia govt has a fleet of thousands of Mercedes S class and Audi A8's, they buy hundreds of new cars in this class every year, all of these will now changed over to the Aurus, all the body guard vehicles will be changed over to Aurus, they have a ready made market. It will also sell in the CIS countries, probably Iran as well.

These cars unlike most other high end luxury sedans were also designed from the ground up to be armoured, which no one else does, they add the armour after, whereas with the Aurus it can be integral.

It looks more like a Bentley Mulsanne than a Rolls Royce, it was engineered with the help of Porsche, so it's going to be half decent to drive.


If I recall correctly, BMW 7 series is designed with the Protection variant in mind from the beginning. But that is only light armor.

I think the market for armored cars will only increase as the public gets more information about the wealthy.
 
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:20 am

Kiwirob wrote:
It will because the Russia govt will be buying these and not German sedans for there high ranking officials.


They will just add this russian car to the fleets and use it when they really have to.
 
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:14 pm

Flighty wrote:
If I recall correctly, BMW 7 series is designed with the Protection variant in mind from the beginning. But that is only light armor.

I think the market for armored cars will only increase as the public gets more information about the wealthy.


BMW have there high security models, Mercedes have the guard models, Audi have security and JLR the sentinel models. But all these cars add armour to the base sedan, the Aurus was designed for armour from the outset. It’s optimised for it unlike the competition.

Rolls doesn’t even offer an armoured Phantom anymore, you Habe to take it to a specialist company.
 
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:15 pm

A3801000 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
It will because the Russia govt will be buying these and not German sedans for there high ranking officials.


They will just add this russian car to the fleets and use it when they really have to.


Which is just what I said they would do. A couple of comment before yours. Govt officials won’t have a choice they will get an Aurus.
 
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:27 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
:eek: One would hope no secrets, business or government are discussed in it.


Export models will come with "fragrance dispensers" built in to the air conditioning system, standard, not optional. :shhh:
 
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:52 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Which is just what I said they would do. A couple of comment before yours. Govt officials won’t have a choice they will get an Aurus.

But will they use it or only do so when required to?

But along with this the other gargantuan issue will be reliability. If it is less reliable then it absolutely only be used when needed. Extra expense will be paid to ensure it is kept up and maintained for those special occasions, meanwhile the workhorse cars (MBZ and Audi?) will be purchased regularly and used regularly for daily use.

Only time will tell.

Looking at the video, it appears they made the roof line to low:
https://youtu.be/SQQLYrN7PhQ?t=81

And the seat looks a bit cramped.

But maybe it is designed for the relatively "compact" dear leader's size (Putin is 5' 6")

Tugg
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TSS
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:57 pm

Tugger wrote:
Looking at the video, it appears they made the roof line to low:
https://youtu.be/SQQLYrN7PhQ?t=81

And the seat looks a bit cramped.

But maybe it is designed for the relatively "compact" dear leader's size (Putin is 5' 6")

The guy who looks somewhat cramped in the back seat is Nicolai Valuev, a Russian boxer who is 7 feet tall and weighs over 300 pounds. While there's no extra room around him he does fit, so I gotta give it to Aurus on roominess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Valuev
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Tugger
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:17 pm

TSS wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Looking at the video, it appears they made the roof line to low:
https://youtu.be/SQQLYrN7PhQ?t=81

And the seat looks a bit cramped.

But maybe it is designed for the relatively "compact" dear leader's size (Putin is 5' 6")

The guy who looks somewhat cramped in the back seat is Nicolai Valuev, a Russian boxer who is 7 feet tall and weighs over 300 pounds. While there's no extra room around him he does fit, so I gotta give it to Aurus on roominess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Valuev

Holy heck! I withdraw my concern!
Amazing, that he even fits at all. :box:

Tugg
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Kiwirob
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:34 pm

Tugger wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Which is just what I said they would do. A couple of comment before yours. Govt officials won’t have a choice they will get an Aurus.

But will they use it or only do so when required to?

But along with this the other gargantuan issue will be reliability. If it is less reliable then it absolutely only be used when needed. Extra expense will be paid to ensure it is kept up and maintained for those special occasions, meanwhile the workhorse cars (MBZ and Audi?) will be purchased regularly and used regularly for daily use.

Only time will tell.

Looking at the video, it appears they made the roof line to low:
https://youtu.be/SQQLYrN7PhQ?t=81

And the seat looks a bit cramped.

But maybe it is designed for the relatively "compact" dear leader's size (Putin is 5' 6")

Tugg


I never thought you had a problem with reading Tugg, the Russian govt will not be buying German cars anymore, they will be buying these. The engine and driveline were built with input from Porsche, when was the last time they designed a dud?

Besides all that when was the last time a US manufacturer built a car in this category? It’s been decades.
 
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:47 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
The engine and driveline were built with input from Porsche, when was the last time they designed a dud?

Porsche is owned by VW. As is Audi. They would be stupid to design something that would even remotely threaten sales of their own premium brand. Perhaps they will sell some Auruses to the Russian government, but I doubt it will have any appeal to those with freedom of choice. It takes a lot of effort to build a premium brand, designing something that looks like a Russian copy of a Chinese RR knockoff is not the way to do it. Koreans could tell stories about that.
 
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:52 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Not a chance. It looks like a cheap Chinese rip off. The only thing you will show riding one of these is: I can't afford the real thing and I am flashy.


Extremely wealthy Japanese people forgo European vehicles for the Toyota Century, it's only sold in the home market and in limited numbers, wealthy Japanese have been buying them for decades. It also helps the the Emperor also uses them, as does Putin the Aurus, its the halo effect.

Image


It looks vaguely like a Buick.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:05 am

Erebus wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
:eek: One would hope no secrets, business or government are discussed in it.


Export models will come with "fragrance dispensers" built in to the air conditioning system, standard, not optional. :shhh:


That standard word is somewhat ominous.
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Kiwirob
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:59 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
The engine and driveline were built with input from Porsche, when was the last time they designed a dud?

Porsche is owned by VW. As is Audi. They would be stupid to design something that would even remotely threaten sales of their own premium brand. Perhaps they will sell some Auruses to the Russian government, but I doubt it will have any appeal to those with freedom of choice. It takes a lot of effort to build a premium brand, designing something that looks like a Russian copy of a Chinese RR knockoff is not the way to do it. Koreans could tell stories about that.


If you really want to be pedantic the Porsche and Piech families own 50% of Porsche Automobile Holding SE who own VAG who in turn own Porsche Engineering. Porsche Engineering is a consulting company to the motor industry at large, they make a load of money selling design and engineering expertise to other manufacturers. I'm sure they were handsomely paid for this. The fact of the matter is the Aurus will become the standard car for the Russian govt, it will replace the S Class and A8 in Russia service, I doubt anyone will have the choice to pick something else. The Soviet leaders only drove Zil's before the S Class and now that there is a domestically produced alternative the foreign brands will be kicked to the curb.
 
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:24 am

Tugger wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Which is just what I said they would do. A couple of comment before yours. Govt officials won’t have a choice they will get an Aurus.

But will they use it or only do so when required to?

But along with this the other gargantuan issue will be reliability. If it is less reliable then it absolutely only be used when needed. Extra expense will be paid to ensure it is kept up and maintained for those special occasions, meanwhile the workhorse cars (MBZ and Audi?) will be purchased regularly and used regularly for daily use.

Only time will tell.

Looking at the video, it appears they made the roof line to low:
https://youtu.be/SQQLYrN7PhQ?t=81

And the seat looks a bit cramped.

But maybe it is designed for the relatively "compact" dear leader's size (Putin is 5' 6")

Tugg

In Russia you can see a lot of Lada cars or AZLK at the age of 25-35 years. But for some reason very few BMW or Mercedes of the same age. I think this should remove all questions about the level of reliability of Russian cars.
 
mham001
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:18 pm

Scorpius wrote:
In Russia you can see a lot of Lada cars or AZLK at the age of 25-35 years. But for some reason very few BMW or Mercedes of the same age. I think this should remove all questions about the level of reliability of Russian cars.


Just to play devil's advocate, maybe few cars were imported at that time, while the domestic industry was churning out millions?

If you had said 8-10 years, I'd understand, this is the period generally where expensive German cars become unbearably expensive to maintain for their value.
 
TSS
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:43 pm

mham001 wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
In Russia you can see a lot of Lada cars or AZLK at the age of 25-35 years. But for some reason very few BMW or Mercedes of the same age. I think this should remove all questions about the level of reliability of Russian cars.


Just to play devil's advocate, maybe few cars were imported at that time, while the domestic industry was churning out millions?

That's it exactly: The Lada Riva (VAZ-2105, VAZ-2104 and VAZ-2107) is the third best-selling car on the planet behind only the Ford Model T and the original VW Type 1 "Beetle". If you watch any of the Russian dash cam car crash videos on YouTube you'll still see lots of Rivas scooting about.
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Scorpius
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:46 pm

mham001 wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
In Russia you can see a lot of Lada cars or AZLK at the age of 25-35 years. But for some reason very few BMW or Mercedes of the same age. I think this should remove all questions about the level of reliability of Russian cars.


Just to play devil's advocate, maybe few cars were imported at that time, while the domestic industry was churning out millions?

If you had said 8-10 years, I'd understand, this is the period generally where expensive German cars become unbearably expensive to maintain for their value.

25 years ago there was no problem with importing cars. Again - how many cars in the age of 25-35 years you will see the same in Germany?
The advantage of Russian cars has always been their unpretentiousness - you do not need a car service in case of failure, 95% of the faults could be eliminated independently.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:33 pm

TSS wrote:
If you watch any of the Russian dash cam car crash videos on YouTube you'll still see lots of Rivas scooting about.

You can also see on those videos what a death trap they are, which is not really suprising since all those models are facelifted versions of Lada 2101, a license-built Fiat 124, designed in early-1960s.
 
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Aesma
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:42 pm

Most people prefer driving newer cars and can afford it, that's why you don't see old cars. Old cars are also being banned from cities so even less reason to keep one, even if it runs fine. Any country where you see old cars just means there are a lot of poor people who can't afford anything else.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
mham001
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:01 pm

Scorpius wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
In Russia you can see a lot of Lada cars or AZLK at the age of 25-35 years. But for some reason very few BMW or Mercedes of the same age. I think this should remove all questions about the level of reliability of Russian cars.


Just to play devil's advocate, maybe few cars were imported at that time, while the domestic industry was churning out millions?

If you had said 8-10 years, I'd understand, this is the period generally where expensive German cars become unbearably expensive to maintain for their value.

25 years ago there was no problem with importing cars. Again - how many cars in the age of 25-35 years you will see the same in Germany?
The advantage of Russian cars has always been their unpretentiousness - you do not need a car service in case of failure, 95% of the faults could be eliminated independently.


I'm not trying to make a claim for German reliability, in fact I agree with you but your statistical analysis is suspect. How many Russians were in a position to buy expensive German cars 25-30 years ago? What was the ratio of sales during those years compared to Lada and what is the ratio of cars running today? I say this because MBs such as the W124 of 30 years ago are known to be reliable and well built with minimal electronics and much less of the over-engineering that we see today. Russia most likely just didn't get that many.


Anyway, back on subject, there is this competition as well from Malaysia...

Image
Image

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cultur ... uxury-car/
Made of Kevlar, maybe it has bullet resistance, they don't want to say.
Last edited by mham001 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
TSS
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:02 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
TSS wrote:
If you watch any of the Russian dash cam car crash videos on YouTube you'll still see lots of Rivas scooting about.

You can also see on those videos what a death trap they are, which is not really suprising since all those models are facelifted versions of Lada 2101, a license-built Fiat 124, designed in early-1960s.

This is drifting slightly off topic, but…
I wouldn't necessarily call the Riva a "death trap"; If anything, I've been impressed with how well they hold up in an accident compared to much newer vehicles. And I have seen a LOT of Rivas in accidents because 90+ percent of the time if you see a Riva on screen in one of those videos it WILL be involved in the accident if not the actual cause of it. If you tried to play a drinking game in which you took a shot of whiskey every time a Riva was involved in an accident, you'd be face-down on the floor by the end of the first ten minute video.

What's truly scary about the car crash videos is how easily and quickly SUVs, especially car-based ones, roll over in even minor accidents where both the SUV and the car that hit it are hardly dented.
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anrec80
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:28 am

TSS wrote:
That's it exactly: The Lada Riva (VAZ-2105, VAZ-2104 and VAZ-2107) is the third best-selling car on the planet behind only the Ford Model T and the original VW Type 1 "Beetle". If you watch any of the Russian dash cam car crash videos on YouTube you'll still see lots of Rivas scooting about.


The reason for that is I guess the same as Beetle and T. The car was extremely cheap, extremely unpretentious to roads and gasoline, and very practical and cheap to maintain and repair. For less wealthy drivers, it's a zero frills way to get from point A to point B, regardless what quality of roads (paved or unpaved) will be there, and what quality of gasoline.

By zero frills I mean absolute zero - you get a stick shift, no power brakes, no power steering, no AC, some very basic radio maybe. Things like power windows/mirrors/seat/premium sound are of course from entirely different world. Talking about acceleration dynamics and such also do not belong here obviously. Harmful emissions, environmental care, noise levels - hmm, never heard of. It's like ULCCs we talk so much about - for some very reasonable fare, affordable by most, they give you just a seat to get just your body from where you are to where you need to be, and if you want anything beyond that (carry-on, checked bag, seat selection, flight change) - "not free" at best, more often just "no". Not even "sorry" necessarily.

Later they started having modifications of those with AC, power brakes, power steering, other options and even auto transmissions - but those "fully stuffed" ones were priced closer to entry-level foreign built ones with similar options, sometimes gently used.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:22 am

anrec80 wrote:
TSS wrote:
That's it exactly: The Lada Riva (VAZ-2105, VAZ-2104 and VAZ-2107) is the third best-selling car on the planet behind only the Ford Model T and the original VW Type 1 "Beetle". If you watch any of the Russian dash cam car crash videos on YouTube you'll still see lots of Rivas scooting about.


The reason for that is I guess the same as Beetle and T. The car was extremely cheap, extremely unpretentious to roads and gasoline, and very practical and cheap to maintain and repair. For less wealthy drivers, it's a zero frills way to get from point A to point B, regardless what quality of roads (paved or unpaved) will be there, and what quality of gasoline.


Forgetting about two aspects:
1. extremely long production run: 1980 - 2012
2. low competition in the easter block.
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bhill
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:32 pm

"The Senat Limousine has a 4.4-litre V8 engine jointly developed by NAMI and Porsche, with a hybrid electric motor to offer 335kW "...I would like to see some information/images of the engine bay...
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bhill
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:34 pm

...nevermind....so it is NOT a Russian designed/implemented car at all! They needed the Germans to get it done!!

" the 6-ton, 23-foot-long armored limousine is powered by a twin-turbocharged 4.4-liter Porsche-developed V8 engine sourced from the greater VW Automotive Group parts bin producing 598 hp. Two other engines are eventually expected to bookend the lineup, including a V12 rated at over 800 hp, as well as a turbocharged 2.2-liter four-cylinder producing 245 hp.

Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/car-news/p ... z5R0ZSfDXO


Perhaps the Energia design group should have hep'd out.....THEN it would have ran like a bat outta hell!
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TSS
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:13 pm

bhill wrote:
"The Senat Limousine has a 4.4-litre V8 engine jointly developed by NAMI and Porsche, with a hybrid electric motor to offer 335kW "...I would like to see some information/images of the engine bay...

A stern-to-stem view of the full chassis including engine and driveline starts at 2:40- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQQLYrN7PhQ
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anrec80
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:24 am

Dutchy wrote:
Forgetting about two aspects:
1. extremely long production run: 1980 - 2012
2. low competition in the easter block.


True - because the demand all these years was there. Yes, prior to 1991 there was no competition, but 1991 onwards - nearly every car made anywhere in the world was available in the market.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:38 am

bhill wrote:
...nevermind....so it is NOT a Russian designed/implemented car at all! They needed the Germans to get it done!!

" the 6-ton, 23-foot-long armored limousine is powered by a twin-turbocharged 4.4-liter Porsche-developed V8 engine sourced from the greater VW Automotive Group parts bin producing 598 hp. Two other engines are eventually expected to bookend the lineup, including a V12 rated at over 800 hp, as well as a turbocharged 2.2-liter four-cylinder producing 245 hp.

Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/car-news/p ... z5R0ZSfDXO


Perhaps the Energia design group should have hep'd out.....THEN it would have ran like a bat outta hell!


It looks a lot different from any existing Porsche V8 engine. From what I understand is it's a modular engine and the upcoming v12 is part of that family, there are not modular engines in the VW group.

Image

The latest Porsche Audi designed V8's are hot V engines, this means the exhaust outlet and turbos sit in the V, the inlet is on the sides, the NAMI V8 isn't a hot V, if it was a VW Groups parts bin engine surely they would use the latest design, which would enable parts to be shared.

The quad turbo V12 looks impressive.

Image
 
787Driver
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:13 am

The car deserves no attention as it is simply a cheap copy of a well known and well established car and car brand.
 
WIederling
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:55 am

TSS wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
In Russia you can see a lot of Lada cars or AZLK at the age of 25-35 years. But for some reason very few BMW or Mercedes of the same age. I think this should remove all questions about the level of reliability of Russian cars.


Just to play devil's advocate, maybe few cars were imported at that time, while the domestic industry was churning out millions?

That's it exactly: The Lada Riva (VAZ-2105, VAZ-2104 and VAZ-2107) is the third best-selling car on the planet behind only the Ford Model T and the original VW Type 1 "Beetle". If you watch any of the Russian dash cam car crash videos on YouTube you'll still see lots of Rivas scooting about.


No. You get to 22m via scooping Fiat 124/125 and the VAZ lineup together.
toyota corolla alone sold 40m

if you only count the VAZ numbers ..
golf, passat, ...
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Erebus
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Re: New Russian luxury sedan goes on sale ( pics)

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:40 pm

bhill wrote:
...nevermind....so it is NOT a Russian designed/implemented car at all! They needed the Germans to get it done!!

" the 6-ton, 23-foot-long armored limousine is powered by a twin-turbocharged 4.4-liter Porsche-developed V8 engine sourced from the greater VW Automotive Group parts bin producing 598 hp. Two other engines are eventually expected to bookend the lineup, including a V12 rated at over 800 hp, as well as a turbocharged 2.2-liter four-cylinder producing 245 hp.


Well, there goes reliability...

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