A310
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What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:50 am

Hey A-Netters, how do you think what would have happened if Jimmy Carter had won a second term, meaning that Reagan would not have been president?
How could Carter have dealt with some of the challenges of the 80s, and almost as interesting, who would have succeeded him after his second term?

Let´s have a good discussion on some alternate history, shall we?
 
Airstud
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:32 am

Jimmy Carter is the greatest American alive today.

I'm glad Reagan won.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
Pyrex
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:01 pm

Ah, the left's attempts to rewrite history never cease to amaze...
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
tommy1808
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:16 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Ah, the left's attempts to rewrite history never cease to amaze...


Dang, how far on the right do you have to be to consider the Reagan Government left? After all they admitted that the Contras paid with Drug money (=i.e. busted the whole Iran-Contra fairy tale).

best regards
Thomas
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DL717
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:54 pm

A depression.

Maybe the thread should be “what if Carter was never elected”.

The only reason he got in to begin with was Ford’s pardon of Nixon.

His situation was so bad at the end of his term that a murdering drunk gave him a run for his money in the primary for his second term. Stealing a third of his delegates.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
seb146
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:10 pm

DL717 wrote:
A depression.

Maybe the thread should be “what if Carter was never elected”.

The only reason he got in to begin with was Ford’s pardon of Nixon.

His situation was so bad at the end of his term that a murdering drunk gave him a run for his money in the primary for his second term. Stealing a third of his delegates.


Carter won PARTLY because of Nixon. Another factor was the REPUBLICAN recession that was going on at the time. Ford's slogan was "Whip Inflation Now" or "WIN". Worker's pay, taxes, budget, etc. even under Ford, were manageable. It was St. Ronnie who accelerated the deficit spending and this notion that "deficits don't matter".

Financially, I don't think much would have changed under Carter. Socially, everything would have happened faster. The AIDS crisis would have been acted on sooner and better and LGBTQ+ equality and terrorism would all be completely different. Democrats are not as obsessed with controlling other countries. The 1984 Olympic boycott by the Soviet bloc probably would not have happened.

The Iranian hostages were released as Reagan was being sworn in. It was under Carter their release was negotiated. Reagan and his team did not have any official power until January 1981. There is a transition time between November and January and beyond. Technically, Carter and his team were still in full power. I know that hurts righties to read but it is true.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:03 am

For an absolute certainty, Carter wouldn’t have stood in front of Brandenburg Gate and uttered, “Tear down this wall, Mr. Gorbachev”.

GF
 
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DL717
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:58 am

seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
A depression.

Maybe the thread should be “what if Carter was never elected”.

The only reason he got in to begin with was Ford’s pardon of Nixon.

His situation was so bad at the end of his term that a murdering drunk gave him a run for his money in the primary for his second term. Stealing a third of his delegates.


Carter won PARTLY because of Nixon. Another factor was the REPUBLICAN recession that was going on at the time. Ford's slogan was "Whip Inflation Now" or "WIN". Worker's pay, taxes, budget, etc. even under Ford, were manageable. It was St. Ronnie who accelerated the deficit spending and this notion that "deficits don't matter".

Financially, I don't think much would have changed under Carter. Socially, everything would have happened faster. The AIDS crisis would have been acted on sooner and better and LGBTQ+ equality and terrorism would all be completely different. Democrats are not as obsessed with controlling other countries. The 1984 Olympic boycott by the Soviet bloc probably would not have happened.

The Iranian hostages were released as Reagan was being sworn in. It was under Carter their release was negotiated. Reagan and his team did not have any official power until January 1981. There is a transition time between November and January and beyond. Technically, Carter and his team were still in full power. I know that hurts righties to read but it is true.


Must be why he’s one of the lowest rated Presidents in terms of crisis management. He was an absolute mess. Quit trying to put lipstick on that pig. He’s the worst president in my lifetime. Hands down.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
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DL717
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:41 am

Awe. I’ll just put this here for you to savor, or ponder. He also destroyed the middle class with high gas prices and high interest rates.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerm ... mmy-carter

https://nypost.com/2017/09/16/the-day-t ... for-trump/
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:44 am

DL717 wrote:
Awe. I’ll just put this here for you to savor, or ponder. He also destroyed the middle class with high gas prices and high interest rates.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerm ... mmy-carter



I only know what happened, in real time during Carters days and Obama's.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 am

WarRI1 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Awe. I’ll just put this here for you to savor, or ponder. He also destroyed the middle class with high gas prices and high interest rates.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerm ... mmy-carter



I only know what happened, in real time during Carters days and Obama's.
Of course now that I think of it, Carter, a Christian tried to bring peace in the Mideast, a man with the name of Zuckerman might not have liked that along with Israel.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
seb146
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:10 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
For an absolute certainty, Carter wouldn’t have stood in front of Brandenburg Gate and uttered, “Tear down this wall, Mr. Gorbachev”.

GF


Gorbechev would have released the Eastern European countries and Cuba anyway.

Cuban relations with the United States would have thawed more quickly, too.

Soviet Union was drowning in debt from financially supporting the Eastern European states. Carter would not have made such a grand spectacle to point out the obvious. It might have been his successor to deal with Gorbechev. Carter would not have been able to run again in 1984. It would probably have been Mondale or.... who? George HW Bush? MAYBE Bob Dole? THAT election would have looked completely different, too.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:20 am

seb146 wrote:
Soviet Union was drowning in debt from financially supporting the Eastern European states.

Except that it was exactly the other way around. That was the whole purpose of the COMECON.
You really seem to know what you are talking around. :roll:
 
tommy1808
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:36 am

DL717 wrote:
He also destroyed the middle class with high gas prices and high interest rates.


Dang... what did you do during all those civics classes when you where a kid? Both items are not controlled by the President. If any President is to blame for the high interest rate it would of course be Nixon since he killed the Bretton Woods system. Fed Chairman when the interest rate hike under Charter starting exploding was Arthur F. Burns, a Nixon appointee, quite explicitely against the wishes of the White House, that figured unemployment was a bigger problem than inflation. His successor didn´t do any better and got replaced rather quickly be Paul Volcker, despite Charter knowing the him doing the right thing to stabilize things would make the economic situation worse before it gets better. He nominated a guy that would do the right thing, but make lots of bad headlines until the upcoming election. Cater put country before career and party. Strange concept for you, i know.

Also, your two "sources" don´t support either claim.... nothing really about gas prices or high interest rates....

best regards
Thomas
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tommy1808
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:38 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Soviet Union was drowning in debt from financially supporting the Eastern European states.

Except that it was exactly the other way around. That was the whole purpose of the COMECON.:


:checkmark:
What killed the USSR was spending too much money on the military and not on productivity improvements in the general economy. That works for a while, but once it is too late things get really bad, really quick.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
seb146
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:46 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Soviet Union was drowning in debt from financially supporting the Eastern European states.

Except that it was exactly the other way around. That was the whole purpose of the COMECON.
You really seem to know what you are talking around. :roll:


This is what we were told. This is actually the first I am hearing of COMECON. So, I read up on it through Wikipedia (which should always be taken with a grain of salt) and found this entry under "Peristroika":

The Gorbachev regime made too many commitments on too many fronts, thereby overstretching and overheating the Soviet economy

So, yeah, it was the Soviet Union financially overextending itself to the Eastern Bloc countries. So, the COMECON or Eastern European bloc would have collapsed anyway, no matter who the American president was.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
tommy1808
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:13 am

seb146 wrote:
So, yeah, it was the Soviet Union financially overextending itself to the Eastern Bloc countries. So, the COMECON or Eastern European bloc would have collapsed anyway, no matter who the American president was.


from your source
while the (Central and) East European members of Comecon resented being asked to contribute scarce capital to projects that were chiefly of interest to the Soviet Union


You don´t overheat an economy when you lack money. The USSR offered more resources and capacity than they could afford without overheating being the result.
The debt came from trading with the west.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
aviationaware
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:12 am

A310 wrote:
Hey A-Netters, how do you think what would have happened if Jimmy Carter had won a second term, meaning that Reagan would not have been president?
How could Carter have dealt with some of the challenges of the 80s, and almost as interesting, who would have succeeded him after his second term?

Let´s have a good discussion on some alternate history, shall we?


- There would have been a huge economic depression with rampant inflation
- America would have lost its economic hegemony over the world in the 1990s
- The Cold War would still be raging or even have been lost due to the depression
- 9/11 probably would not have happened, because the skyscrapers in Manhattan would have been nearly empty and not an attractive target due to the significantly weaker economy

It would be a horrible world to live in. The only positive thing is that I believe Carter might have had a better reaction to the AIDS crisis, where Reagan just flat out failed in a shameful way.
 
tommy1808
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:44 am

aviationaware wrote:

- There would have been a huge economic depression with rampant inflation


The FED chair solving the Inflation Problem was a Carter appointee, so is this your first lie of the day?

Best regards
Thomad
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aviationaware
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:58 am

Inflation has a few more input variables than pure money supply. Thanks for playing, amateur.
 
tommy1808
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:27 am

aviationaware wrote:
Inflation has a few more input variables than pure money supply. Thanks for playing, amateur.


Yeah, one of them being Reagans tax cuts as a counter productive inflation driver.

Attempt at an ad hominem attack noted as admission of not having an Argument.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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DL717
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:46 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
Of course now that I think of it, Carter, a Christian....


Yeah, that was the argument my dads Union boss tried to make when he ran out of reasons for people to vote for Carter. This as my dad went to the poll for Reagan. My dad, as a Christian, just laughed at him for trying to pull that nonsense. Reagan was divorced! Oh the humanity!

If anyone thinks Carter was a decent President, they either weren’t alive or they’re trolling. His own party didn’t want him around for nearly 20 years.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:06 pm

seb146 wrote:
This is actually the first I am hearing of COMECON. So, I read up on it through Wikipedia (which should always be taken with a grain of salt) and found this entry under "Peristroika":

COMECON existed since 1949.Its whole purpose was to supply whatever the failed Soviet economy lacked, literally and suck CEE dry.

seb146 wrote:
So, yeah, it was the Soviet Union financially overextending itself to the Eastern Bloc countries.

Not correct. Most CEE countries always had significantly higher standard of living than the USSR even though the commie propaganda claimed they are the example to be followed.Can't speak for other countries but the communist era in Czechoslovakia was an economic freefall from pre-WW2 era.

seb146 wrote:
the COMECON or Eastern European bloc would have collapsed anyway, no matter who the American president was.

I love this ahistorical left-wing narrative... if there is no relevance between course of the world affairs and who sits in the White House (according to you), then why all the panic that Trump will undo the world order of the last 70 years? Why not just admit that playing hardball with Russians was the right thing to do, because crude force is the only thing they understand (even Obama learned that after his naive approach to Russia during the first administration)???
 
BN747
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:44 pm

Nothing would have happened.

Dems had already abandoned Carter and joined Repubs by encircling Carter and shutting him down...just as they sought to fight his pursuits of alternative energy approach, they would have blocked everything he attempted to do because Carter's none participating in the standard 'pay along to get along' with Defense/Military contractors ... was the death knell.

Nothing else mattered.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:20 pm

Four years of double digit inflation doomed Carter, and the way our economy is acting again, will probably doom Trump. We cannot carry all this debit, and keep kicking the can down the road. There are signs that our economy is in trouble. is anybody noticing?
 
seb146
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:29 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
seb146 wrote:
This is actually the first I am hearing of COMECON. So, I read up on it through Wikipedia (which should always be taken with a grain of salt) and found this entry under "Peristroika":

COMECON existed since 1949.Its whole purpose was to supply whatever the failed Soviet economy lacked, literally and suck CEE dry.


I recall there was a drought in the Soviet Union at one point. Crops failed. Food lines and so forth. I guess I do not understand how tiny countries like Poland and Czechoslovakia can feed themselves plus the masses in the Soviet Union.

L410Turbolet wrote:
seb146 wrote:
So, yeah, it was the Soviet Union financially overextending itself to the Eastern Bloc countries.

Not correct. Most CEE countries always had significantly higher standard of living than the USSR even though the commie propaganda claimed they are the example to be followed.Can't speak for other countries but the communist era in Czechoslovakia was an economic freefall from pre-WW2 era.


Some countries are better off than others. I get it. The way I am reading about COMECON, they all support each other. So, countries like East Germany don't have much are supported by countries like Czechoslovakia that have more and better. That is how I am reading it.

L410Turbolet wrote:
seb146 wrote:
the COMECON or Eastern European bloc would have collapsed anyway, no matter who the American president was.

I love this ahistorical left-wing narrative... if there is no relevance between course of the world affairs and who sits in the White House (according to you), then why all the panic that Trump will undo the world order of the last 70 years? Why not just admit that playing hardball with Russians was the right thing to do, because crude force is the only thing they understand (even Obama learned that after his naive approach to Russia during the first administration)???


You can not be serious. I am thinking you are not in the United States and do not regularly check on American media outlets. It has slowed down in the past few weeks, but for a very long time, he has screamed and cried about "terrible" trade deals and how America is getting screwed and how bad Germany and France and Japan are. Trade wars and imposing tariffs and so forth. Really? You heard none of this? How much in love he is with Kim Jung Un? How Putin is a great guy? None of it ring a bell?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
WIederling
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:07 am

tommy1808 wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Soviet Union was drowning in debt from financially supporting the Eastern European states.

Except that it was exactly the other way around. That was the whole purpose of the COMECON.:


:checkmark:
What killed the USSR was spending too much money on the military and not on productivity improvements in the general economy. That works for a while, but once it is too late things get really bad, really quick.

best regards
Thomas

Only partly true.
What really caused the dissolution of the Soviet Union was competition visible/touchable by turning the
Iron Curtain into a sieve and ever growing contact between East and West competitive systems .. that again was kicked of by German Ostpolitik. Like cabbage Kohl the rather unaccomplished actor Reagan were bystanders jumping on the bandwagon.
Murphy is an optimist
 
salttee
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:07 am

What really caused the dissolution of the Soviet Union was another revolt in the hinterlands in 1989, a bit like like the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 or the 1968 Czechoslovakia uprising, this time it was more generalized and resulted in Hungary opening its border with Austria. This wasn't challenged with force and it led to east Germans trekking across the border into Hungary, then on to Austria and then to west Germany. When masses of these people and their supporters began assembling on either side of the wall in Berlin, Gorbachev was faced with the choice of machine gunning masses of people along with an invasion of Hungary or throwing in the towel; he threw in the towel on the Comintern states but tried to hold the Politburo / communist government in Russia. But somebody must have ran a spreadsheet and it was obvious that without the western part of the SU the future was bleak and presumably old political alliances came unraveled.. So things in Russia came unglued too.

There were myriad reasons why the people of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, East Germany and so on were unhappy under the Russian thumb, but the fall had nothing to do with Reagan posturing in front of the wall.a couple of years earlier.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:19 pm

It was Reagan’s “posturing” that gave heart to the Eastern bloc to throw off the Soviet yoke. They knew from bitter experience in Hungary 1956 and Czechoslovakia 1968 that the West wouldn’t challenge the Soviets, but Reagan came and said, “there’s a new sheriff in town”.

GF
 
seb146
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:29 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It was Reagan’s “posturing” that gave heart to the Eastern bloc to throw off the Soviet yoke. They knew from bitter experience in Hungary 1956 and Czechoslovakia 1968 that the West wouldn’t challenge the Soviets, but Reagan came and said, “there’s a new sheriff in town”.

GF


I thought the government controlled the media in Eastern Europe? Those who lived in border regions might have heard parts of his speech, but, farther away, maybe not. Also, the Soviet Union was more bold in the 1950s and 1960s and better able to deploy troops and weapons to quash uprisings. But, I don't think they were as eager or in a financial position to do that in the late 1980s. Remember they were dealing with drought and proxy and outright wars.

As much as the right wants to believe it, Reagan did not single handedly bring down the Soviet Union with just one sentence. It was a number of factors on the Soviet side.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
WIederling
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:47 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It was Reagan’s “posturing” that gave heart to the Eastern bloc to throw off the Soviet yoke. They knew from bitter experience in Hungary 1956 and Czechoslovakia 1968 that the West wouldn’t challenge the Soviets, but Reagan came and said, “there’s a new sheriff in town”.


Reagan tried to kick of the mother of "The Bedford Incident" on a global scale.
The fortune of having that misfire was not his doing.

IMHO the combo of Reagan (US) and Kohl (DE) was about the worst setup possible.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Mortyman
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:38 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It was Reagan’s “posturing” that gave heart to the Eastern bloc to throw off the Soviet yoke. They knew from bitter experience in Hungary 1956 and Czechoslovakia 1968 that the West wouldn’t challenge the Soviets, but Reagan came and said, “there’s a new sheriff in town”.


Absolute nonsense. It had very little, if anything at all to do with Reagan.

Pyrex wrote:
Ah, the left's attempts to rewrite history never cease to amaze...


and the right doesn't ?
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:38 pm

seb146 wrote:
I thought the government controlled the media in Eastern Europe? Those who lived in border regions might have heard parts of his speech, but, farther away, maybe not.

Radio Free Europe? Voice of America? It was one of the things we were told to better keep for ourselves as kids... that mom and dad listen to RFE and VoA almost every evening. The quality was really bad through as commies jammed the broadcasting electronically.

seb146 wrote:
Also, the Soviet Union was more bold in the 1950s and 1960s and better able to deploy troops and weapons to quash uprisings. But, I don't think they were as eager or in a financial position to do that in the late 1980s.

They had troops alreasy on the ground. Roughly 60,000 in Hungary, 80,000 in Czechoslovakia and 340,000 in East Germany. All they needed was an order to go.

seb146 wrote:
As much as the right wants to believe it, Reagan did not single handedly bring down the Soviet Union with just one sentence.

Did anyone seriously claim that? It is you who repeats this nonsense over and over again. The speech was given in June 1987, communist regimes in CEE had approx. 17 months left if we consider fall of the Berlin Wall as the breaking point. His credit is certainly due for the RESOLVE to play hardball with geriatric thugs like Brezhnev or Andropov.
Would Brezhnev invade Poland in 1981, had there been not Reagan, but wimpy Carter in the White House?

Wiedeling wrote:
IMHO the combo of Reagan (US) and Kohl (DE) was about the worst setup possible.

From the perspective of a Russlandversteher it most certainly was.
 
WIederling
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:24 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
From the perspective of a Russlandversteher it most certainly was.


I bow to your intellectual prowess and eloquence.
Murphy is an optimist
 
N867DA
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:42 pm

It's an odd position to be a far better ex-President than a sitting President. Carter got dealt a bad hand when he took the White House due to his predeccesor's ineptitude in some arenas but his responses don't inspire confidence either.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:32 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
For an absolute certainty, Carter wouldn’t have stood in front of Brandenburg Gate and uttered, “Tear down this wall, Mr. Gorbachev”.

GF


Without Reagan why would Gorbachev been made the General Secretary of the Communist Party? The Reagan administration was putting the Soviet Union under severe economic stress by getting the Saudis to produce oil as fast as they could to lower the Soviet oil revenue. A succession of hardliners succeeded Brezhnev between 1982 and 1985. Had the Soviet Union not been under so much economic pressure, the Politburo may have picked someone else in 1985.
 
tommy1808
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:55 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
For an absolute certainty, Carter wouldn’t have stood in front of Brandenburg Gate and uttered, “Tear down this wall, Mr. Gorbachev”.

GF


Without Reagan why would Gorbachev been made the General Secretary of the Communist Party? The Reagan administration was putting the Soviet Union under severe economic stress by getting the Saudis to produce oil as fast as they could to lower the Soviet oil revenue. A succession of hardliners succeeded Brezhnev between 1982 and 1985. Had the Soviet Union not been under so much economic pressure, the Politburo may have picked someone else in 1985.


Charter had the idea of removing price control from oil. Reagan just pulled the starting date in a bit. That, higher efficiency in using fuels and tons of new production capacity all over the world dropped the oil price.
Reagan pretty much just happened to be in office at the time. If you want to attribute it to anyone, take OPEC, their embargo got all that in motion when Nixon was still in office.

Best regards
Thomas
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flyingclrs727
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:02 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
For an absolute certainty, Carter wouldn’t have stood in front of Brandenburg Gate and uttered, “Tear down this wall, Mr. Gorbachev”.

GF


Without Reagan why would Gorbachev been made the General Secretary of the Communist Party? The Reagan administration was putting the Soviet Union under severe economic stress by getting the Saudis to produce oil as fast as they could to lower the Soviet oil revenue. A succession of hardliners succeeded Brezhnev between 1982 and 1985. Had the Soviet Union not been under so much economic pressure, the Politburo may have picked someone else in 1985.


Charter had the idea of removing price control from oil. Reagan just pulled the starting date in a bit. That, higher efficiency in using fuels and tons of new production capacity all over the world dropped the oil price.
Reagan pretty much just happened to be in office at the time. If you want to attribute it to anyone, take OPEC, their embargo got all that in motion when Nixon was still in office.

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Thomas


Carter got the "Windfall Profits Tax" enacted. It was an administrative nightmare. It didn't get repealed till the second Reagan administration. The Windfall Profits Tax put a tax on "old oil". If you already had a producing well, it made no sense to have work overs to repair a well or recomplete in an unproduced formation, because any oil or gas produced by that well would be considered "old oil". Oil and gas produced from a new well would be considered "new oil" and would not have to pay the tax. Lists of perfectly good wells in the US got plugged and were replaced by new wells to avoid the tax. This was a very wasteful policy that wasted tremendous quantities of steel to set pipe in replacement wells. It did absolutely nothing to to increase domestic production.
 
tommy1808
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Re: What if Jimmy Carter had won a second term?

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:09 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
. It did absolutely nothing to to increase domestic production.


The US isn't the only non-OPEC producer you know.
US domestic crude production increased during the 80's, so I call bs.

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Thomas
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