ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:52 pm

marcelh wrote:
If you don’t vote, you do actually say: “I’m ok with the results.”

A rather Incorrect assumption.
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:19 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
marcelh wrote:
If you don’t vote, you do actually say: “I’m ok with the results.”

A rather Incorrect assumption.


They didn’t care, otherwise they should have voted.
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:16 pm

marcelh wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
marcelh wrote:
If you don’t vote, you do actually say: “I’m ok with the results.”

A rather Incorrect assumption.


They didn’t care, otherwise they should have voted.

There will also have been quite a few who were repulsed by the vicious Leave campaign but not really convinced by the tepid Remain one either (having David Cameron on its side didn't necessarily help in all cases).
 
rutankrd
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:45 pm

marcelh wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
marcelh wrote:
If you don’t vote, you do actually say: “I’m ok with the results.”

A rather Incorrect assumption.


They didn’t care, otherwise they should have voted.


There were and are many valid reasons for those that didn’t or couldn’t use their vote including around 12% who never register in the first place! Those that recently moved and were out of time to transfer their vote, some who were out of the country, some in hospital, or prison, some who actually won’t vote including devout muslums that don’t actually believe in the decmocratic process as well as those mentally incapable.
And even some that on the day got stuck in traffic round the M25 and missed the closing time.
Yes some of those could have applied for a postal vote however not too many.
It’s ignorant to assume the uncounted couldn’t care less though it’s generally true to say the affect in a normal general election is to effect a status quo position, however the referendum wasn’t one of those occasions as it was strictly binary with a largest ballot win.
That said it wasn’t the defining victory aspouced by the loud chorus of Brexiteers even since.
Nationally a difference of just 1,269,501 ballots counted and much of those in rather rural England in particular.
But that has been said many times even in this thread .
Fact is the UK has never been so divided on anything else in living memory
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:52 pm

rutankrd wrote:
Fact is the UK has never been so divided on anything else in living memory

And that internal division will give more comfort to Vladimir Putin than even Brexit itself already does.
 
rutankrd
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:34 pm

Klaus couldn’t agree more the global threats of Putin his henchmen and Xi Jinping and the rise of right wing so called populism (Facism in disguise ) is deeply disturbing !
 
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:38 pm

Has anyone here watched the BBC Series 'Inside The Foreign Office'? It has been a fascinating production. Episode two aired a few days ago and had this gem in it:

https://twitter.com/ladyhaja/status/1067427744361795587

All the snippets of Foreign Office civil servants trying to nudge BoJo in the right direction and give him a bit of help during speeches + foreign visits (and him missing them completely missing most of them) gives a nice insight into the guy who was a Brexit thought leader. :lol:
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:32 pm

Some more humor: :smile:
BREXITERS have agreed that the UK’s economy is oversized, unwieldy and needs to be trimmed by about eight per cent.

Senior figures in the Brexit movement have also decided that house prices are on average 30 per cent too high, inflation could do with going up to 6.6 per cent, and there should be more unemployment.

Former Brexit minister David Davis said: “The UK’s simply been too successful. This bulldog’s too fat.

“We need to downsize. We need to shed a few pounds. It’s diet time, and what could make dieting easier than there being no food?”

Davis added: “Eight per cent is nothing. If we’re ambitious, we can halve our economy’s size.”


https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics ... 1129180025
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:34 pm

Making Britain lean mean, good idea.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:50 pm

zkojq wrote:
Some more humor: :smile:
BREXITERS have agreed that the UK’s economy is oversized, unwieldy and needs to be trimmed by about eight per cent.

Senior figures in the Brexit movement have also decided that house prices are on average 30 per cent too high, inflation could do with going up to 6.6 per cent, and there should be more unemployment.

Former Brexit minister David Davis said: “The UK’s simply been too successful. This bulldog’s too fat.

“We need to downsize. We need to shed a few pounds. It’s diet time, and what could make dieting easier than there being no food?”

Davis added: “Eight per cent is nothing. If we’re ambitious, we can halve our economy’s size.”


https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics ... 1129180025


Many a word spoken in jest...
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:25 am

BREAKING NEWS

ECJ have confirmed that UK can unilaterally withdraw Article 50.

Fantastic news for those who want option to remain and who support a final say through #peoplesvote

Will help focus minds in next weeks Parliament vote that a "no Deal" is not the only other path

We are soverign!! the power is in our hands!
 
bananaboy
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:27 am

The UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50, says "top EU law officer."

https://news.sky.com/story/top-eu-law-o ... 0-11571293

Is this the ruling?

Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:29 am

And today parliament will hear a motion (Speaker authorised it last night) backed by 6 opposition parties to hold the Govenment in contempt for refusing to publish the entire legal advice of the proposed agreement (parliament voted for this month's ago). Possibly leading to the suspension of a Govenment MP, right when they need every vote they can.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... dvice-deal

This is getting interesting. Stuff the people's vote, just cancel the whole thing after May' s agreement is voted down.
Last edited by Reinhardt on Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:34 am

bananaboy wrote:
The UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50, says "top EU law officer."

https://news.sky.com/story/top-eu-law-o ... 0-11571293

Is this the ruling?

Mark


yes this is the ruling :checkmark:
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:49 am

Richard28 wrote:
bananaboy wrote:
The UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50, says "top EU law officer."

https://news.sky.com/story/top-eu-law-o ... 0-11571293

Is this the ruling?

Mark


yes this is the ruling :checkmark:


clarification:

this is the ECJ's advice to the Advocate General who make the final decision.

It seems the Advocate General will normally follow the ECJ advice... but final confirmation is not here yet and will follow.....
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:51 am

It is not the ruling.
 
PanHAM
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:59 am

Olddog wrote:
While the march was nice, nothing will stop Brexit now. I very much doubt that the ECJ says that a leaving member can cancel its article 50...


The European Court of Justice has confirmed that GB could withdraw from "Brexit". The Attoirney General has said that the ECJ should confrm that in a ruling. That would be indeed the emergency brale to correct the biggest political mistake
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:03 am

If the ruling confirms that advice it will be a huge blow to the EU. I can't wait to see who will be next country to send its own article 50 letter.....
Last edited by Olddog on Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:15 am

Olddog wrote:
If the ruling confirm that advice it will be a huge blow to the EU. I can't wait to see who will be next country to send its own article 50 letter.....


Why? If a country leaves, it leaves and any rejoin would have to be negotiated. This is purely about a country changing it's mind during the A50 period, before it has left. I think Brexit has shown why leaving is a stupid thing to do, I cannot see another country doing this in my lifetime.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:20 am

Richard28 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
bananaboy wrote:
The UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50, says "top EU law officer."

https://news.sky.com/story/top-eu-law-o ... 0-11571293

Is this the ruling?

Mark


yes this is the ruling :checkmark:


clarification:

this is the ECJ's advice to the Advocate General who make the final decision.

It seems the Advocate General will normally follow the ECJ advice... but final confirmation is not here yet and will follow.....


It's the other way round: the AG advices the ECJ...

the ECJ hasn't always followed the AG's advice though, especially on cases which are politically problematic.

the AG looks at the matter strictly juridical, the ECJ has to take also long term stability in account: it's a given the stability of the union is at risk if hotheaded governments like for instance the Polish or the Italian government could simply send out their article 50 letters each time they disagree with something, and the EU has to start up the whole Brexit process like we have seen so far, only to revoke it at the last minute, or alternatively do nothing and risk damage from an uncontrolled crash out, so this would be a typical case where the ECJ should overrule the AG to say this goes against the long interests of the union as a whole, even though it's not textually said so. It can do so, it has done so in the past, and it not unlikely it will do so here, IMHO.

Let's be clear: I don't want the UK to leave, but I don't want to see the same Brexit drama being played all over again every 5 years either by some populist governments who will just use it to act bravely for purely domestic short term electoral wins at home either
Last edited by sabenapilot on Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:23 am

Reinhardt wrote:
Olddog wrote:
If the ruling confirm that advice it will be a huge blow to the EU. I can't wait to see who will be next country to send its own article 50 letter.....


Why? If a country leaves, it leaves and any rejoin would have to be negotiated. This is purely about a country changing it's mind during the A50 period, before it has left. I think Brexit has shown why leaving is a stupid thing to do, I cannot see another country doing this in my lifetime.


This ruling would be the perfect "we are open for blackmail" message and beyond stupid. Invoke art. 50, if you don't get what you want, revoke that, veto everything you can until the rest of the EU begs you to leave....
And since art. 50 can only be changed unanimously, it would be.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:28 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
Olddog wrote:
If the ruling confirm that advice it will be a huge blow to the EU. I can't wait to see who will be next country to send its own article 50 letter.....


Why? If a country leaves, it leaves and any rejoin would have to be negotiated. This is purely about a country changing it's mind during the A50 period, before it has left. I think Brexit has shown why leaving is a stupid thing to do, I cannot see another country doing this in my lifetime.


This ruling would be the perfect "we are open for blackmail" message and beyond stupid. Invoke art. 50, if you don't get what you want, revoke that, veto everything you can until the rest of the EU begs you to leave....
And since art. 50 can only be changed unanimously, it would be.

Best regards
Thomas


indeed, whereas textually there's nothing against this in article 50 like the AG has said and we all knew that, the above is the perfect example why the ECJ should use its full wisdom in it's ruling as it will.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:44 am

The ECJ can easily say that the country has the unilateral right to revoke Article 50, but it can also rule that this country would have to compensate the EU for all costs caused by the deceleration.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:54 am

sabenapilot wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:

Why? If a country leaves, it leaves and any rejoin would have to be negotiated. This is purely about a country changing it's mind during the A50 period, before it has left. I think Brexit has shown why leaving is a stupid thing to do, I cannot see another country doing this in my lifetime.


This ruling would be the perfect "we are open for blackmail" message and beyond stupid. Invoke art. 50, if you don't get what you want, revoke that, veto everything you can until the rest of the EU begs you to leave....
And since art. 50 can only be changed unanimously, it would be.

Best regards
Thomas


indeed, whereas textually there's nothing against this in article 50 like the AG has said and we all knew that, the above is the perfect example why the ECJ should use its full wisdom in it's ruling as it will.


I would suggest Art 50 is revised with what we have learned from Brexit then to ensure that doesn't happen, but still leaves a country the right to change it's mind and stay in, if it happens before the leave date. After all governments change, referendum are found to be fraudulent etc etc.

seahawk wrote:
The ECJ can easily say that the country has the unilateral right to revoke Article 50, but it can also rule that this country would have to compensate the EU for all costs caused by the deceleration.


Perfectly fair and valid to do so.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:11 am

Indeed, whatever the final ECJ ruling will be, it will create interesting stuff for future treaty revisions, because I think everybody agrees that article 50 does not explicitly deal with the concept of a government changing it's mind during the 2 year period.

With all respect due to the persons who have drawn up these treaties, it's a big gaping hole and it needs to be filled in future, preferably with more than just an ECJ ruling on how to interpret in this particular case, as regardless the ECJ verdict, there are serious political consequences and they need to be politically backed up too:

if the ECJ rules along the lines of the AG, it does for instance open up the possibility of a de facto unilateral extension of the 2 year period by withdrawal and subsequent reissue by a memberstate, something which is explicitly excluded by the Treaty of the EU.

if the ECJ rules against the AG, it means any new government can no longer unilaterally change a decision from a previous government, even if no longer pertinent and not yet taken effect.

And of course, it also opens up budgettairy questions like who's going to pay for all these now useless brexit preparations, what about transitional payments, etc?
As well as further legal ones: what if a memberstate withdraws its notification around EU parliamentary elections? (it leaves the state without MEPs then...)

Now, if the ECJ sits with it AG, it's probably the easiest way out of the mess the UK got itself into and to avoid the cliff edge.
Parliament will then just order government to recall their lettre of intent to the EU in order to stop the clock from ticking and running out, so chances of Brexit happening on March 29th are then very slim indeed.

Interesting stuff. :)
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:31 am

sabenapilot wrote:
With all respect due to the persons who have drawn up these treaties, it's a big gaping hole and it needs to be filled in future,


Thing is... they did discuss it and decided not to put something in to allow withdrawal from the withdrawal. They didn't forget.

Best regards
Thomas
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:32 am

I said all along that A50 was badly written, wasn’t clear and hadn’t been proven legally.

Assuming the ECJ follows the Advocate General’s advice, this is very good news for the UK.

I’m sorry that Klaus and Tommy will be very disappointed by this result, but some of us felt this was entirely possible all along.

I’m happy.

That said, I still think there’s only a small chance that the UK would revoke A50.
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:39 am

I hope that Article five will be revised to make it explicit that it can only be revoked with the explicit agreement of the remaining countries.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:41 am

Too bad it will only be an exercise for the law scholars and the remaining EU members, as I can not see the UK revoking.

And I am certain that the ECJ will come up with some "but" in the ruling. Because if you can revoke unilaterally the regulations fort extending the withdrawal negotiations becomes invalid, as leaving country could revoke and then sent the next Article 50 letter a few weeks later, extending the negotiations as long as it likes.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:45 am

The problem is that you can't change treaties easily.

Just imagine if the ECJ allows withdrawal of article 50 and that the uk asks to get back EMA, EBA and so on. What a mess it would be :)
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:45 am

sabenapilot wrote:
.

Let's be clear: I don't want the UK to leave, but I don't want to see the same Brexit drama being played all over again every 5 years either by some populist governments who will just use it to act bravely for purely domestic short term electoral wins at home either


Exactly. Britain at this moment is damaged goods.

Whatever the outcome it will be played again over and over with each election cycle.

The EU will be much better off leaving them to sort it out among themselves for a couple decades. Then we'll see.

I'd totally welcome a newly independent Scotland back, though.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:48 am

scbriml wrote:
I’m sorry that Klaus and Tommy will be very disappointed by this result, but some of us felt this was entirely possible all along.


As much as I want you guys to stay, that opinion is stupid and no clearer than Art. 50. What exactly is good faith in this context? Can the European commission just say "sorry, you didn't negotiate in good faith, so no taking back", does the ECJ have to decide that? More questions than answers...

Best regards
Thomas
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:29 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
Olddog wrote:
If the ruling confirm that advice it will be a huge blow to the EU. I can't wait to see who will be next country to send its own article 50 letter.....


Why? If a country leaves, it leaves and any rejoin would have to be negotiated. This is purely about a country changing it's mind during the A50 period, before it has left. I think Brexit has shown why leaving is a stupid thing to do, I cannot see another country doing this in my lifetime.


Yeah, I hardly see any other country ever willingly put itself through what the UK just did without first being absolutely sure what it wanted and planning the whole thing out before triggering article 50!

This whole fiasco should have scared everyone out of ever doing something so stupid and reckless as Brexit ever again...
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:56 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
Olddog wrote:
If the ruling confirm that advice it will be a huge blow to the EU. I can't wait to see who will be next country to send its own article 50 letter.....


Why? If a country leaves, it leaves and any rejoin would have to be negotiated. This is purely about a country changing it's mind during the A50 period, before it has left. I think Brexit has shown why leaving is a stupid thing to do, I cannot see another country doing this in my lifetime.


Yeah, I hardly see any other country ever willingly put itself through what the UK just did without first being absolutely sure what it wanted and planning the whole thing out before triggering article 50!

This whole fiasco should have scared everyone out of ever doing something so stupid and reckless as Brexit ever again...


Correct and the remaining EU also need to know when the leaver actually leaves, that's why there is a period of 2 years.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A3801000
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:43 pm

Olddog wrote:
If the ruling confirms that advice it will be a huge blow to the EU. I can't wait to see who will be next country to send its own article 50 letter.....


Image
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:57 pm

So if they rule that, doesn't it open the door to things like EU members unilaterally invoking Article 112 of the EEA agreement over migration controls and in effect shutting down Schengen?
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:58 pm

Richard28 wrote:
BREAKING NEWS

ECJ have confirmed that UK can unilaterally withdraw Article 50.

Fantastic news for those who want option to remain and who support a final say through #peoplesvote

Will help focus minds in next weeks Parliament vote that a "no Deal" is not the only other path

We are soverign!! the power is in our hands!


Makes sense. A final say by voters.

Leave no deal
Remain in EU

Two choices, two very different outcomes.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:59 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
So if they rule that, doesn't it open the door to things like EU members unilaterally invoking Article 112 of the EEA agreement over migration controls and in effect shutting down Schengen?


Nope. It just means they can change their mind about art..50.

Best regards
Thomas
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noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:01 pm

Dutchy wrote:
I hope that Article five will be revised to make it explicit that it can only be revoked with the explicit agreement of the remaining countries.



So you don’t want the UK to remain?

Or you want us to remain with strict rules? No opt outs, all your Euro crap force on us (the Euro currency, Schengen, no more opt outs)?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:20 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
I hope that Article five will be revised to make it explicit that it can only be revoked with the explicit agreement of the remaining countries.



So you don’t want the UK to remain?

Or you want us to remain with strict rules? No opt outs, all your Euro crap force on us (the Euro currency, Schengen, no more opt outs)?


Revising article 50 had nothing to do with the UK. I think it is utter poppycock to have the people whom initiated article 50 to revoke it again without permission of the remaining.

As for the UK, I am happy if you remain, but you won't, so take the deal and on a later date you might rejoin again 8-)
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:23 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
I hope that Article five will be revised to make it explicit that it can only be revoked with the explicit agreement of the remaining countries.



So you don’t want the UK to remain?

Or you want us to remain with strict rules? No opt outs, all your Euro crap force on us (the Euro currency, Schengen, no more opt outs)?


Revising article 50 had nothing to do with the UK. I think it is utter poppycock to have the people whom initiated article 50 to revoke it again without permission of the remaining.

As for the UK, I am happy if you remain, but you won't, so take the deal and on a later date you might rejoin again 8-)



I cannot see this deal going through.

A second referendum with remain or no deal as choices would be my preference.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:27 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:


So you don’t want the UK to remain?

Or you want us to remain with strict rules? No opt outs, all your Euro crap force on us (the Euro currency, Schengen, no more opt outs)?


Revising article 50 had nothing to do with the UK. I think it is utter poppycock to have the people whom initiated article 50 to revoke it again without permission of the remaining.

As for the UK, I am happy if you remain, but you won't, so take the deal and on a later date you might rejoin again 8-)



I cannot see this deal going through.

A second referendum with remain or no deal as choices would be my preference.


7 days till d-day and then we'll know.....
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Olddog
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:28 pm

But you are welcome to leave with no deal.

The clock is running out so really no more time for fancy tricks. If you don't want that deal, so be it.

The EU will take a hit but way less than the UK. The netherland should get the hardest hit on continental EU but they have so much to gain at the end....
 
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Dieuwer
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:22 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
And today parliament will hear a motion (Speaker authorised it last night) backed by 6 opposition parties to hold the Govenment in contempt for refusing to publish the entire legal advice of the proposed agreement (parliament voted for this month's ago). Possibly leading to the suspension of a Govenment MP, right when they need every vote they can.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... dvice-deal

This is getting interesting. Stuff the people's vote, just cancel the whole thing after May' s agreement is voted down.


BREAKING NEWS: May found in contempt of Parliament - 311 to 293.

https://www.businessinsider.com/theresa ... nt-2018-12
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:30 pm

What was quite funny about the Contempt vote was that the Leader of the House had to be pushed to say when they would release the full report. She said "we will report tomorrow" which could mean they simply state tomorrow when they will release it. The speaker seemed rather clear that it must happen before the vote next week. If it doesn't happen tomorrow things will get really silly.

3 votes lost for the Govenment this evening in total. Most interesting is the Greive ammendent which means Mps will have to have a 'meaningful vote' if / when the May agreement is voted down. Means the chances of a no deal are extremely slim.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:12 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
UltimoTiger777 wrote:
So if they rule that, doesn't it open the door to things like EU members unilaterally invoking Article 112 of the EEA agreement over migration controls and in effect shutting down Schengen?


Nope. It just means they can change their mind about art..50.

Best regards
Thomas


It sets a precedent about triggering treaty articles though.
 
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Richard28
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Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:52 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
Most interesting is the Greive ammendent which means Mps will have to have a 'meaningful vote' if / when the May agreement is voted down. Means the chances of a no deal are extremely slim.


Which could also have the effect of making some ardent Brexiters accept this deal. Probably won't be enough to make it pass but will be interesting to see.

If the Theresa May deal fails on Tuesday, combined with the Article 50 news earlier today, the prospect of a final say referendum are increased markedly.

To me this is looking like we are heading for a No Deal / Remain final say referendum.....
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:04 pm

The irony of the UK losing access to systems like SISII harms the EU members more than the UK. Without access we will no longer be able to identify European arrest warrants at the Border nor identify children that are missing.
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 454
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:19 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:09 am

The end of the EAW can't come quickly enough.

You want to extradite someone? Put the evidence before a judge in a court of law, don't just waltz in with an arrest warrant so you can drag someone off and hold them without charge for months on end.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:43 am

As far as I can tell, one advisor to the ECJ or even a member expressed an opinion that Article 50 can be withdrawn, here is my take on that.
1. The remainers who want to have cake and eat will jump on it
2. The Brexiters will say any revocation will be a betrayal of the peoples vote
3. When the reamainers jump on and push through their withdrawal of 50 vote, the EU will declime and send the case to the court.
4. When the ruling comes out against the UK said judge will say he still voted for the UK but he was a majority of only 1 among more than 1

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