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Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:21 pm
by apodino
In a case where Democrats actually drew congressional lines to favor them, a federal court rules that Maryland's congressional map unconstitutionally favors Democrats and must be redrawn.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/federal-judges-throw-out-marylands-congressional-voting-map/2018/11/07/91a06834-e2be-11e8-b759-3d88a5ce9e19_story.html?utm_term=.8bf0dc287ff0

This is an interesting case, because Democrats are in a pickle here. They dont want to redraw the districts, but if they appeal to the Supreme Court and win, that would also uphold Gerrymandering in much less friendly territory, such as WI and NC. I do want the Court to rule on this eventually personally.

Thoughts?

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:38 pm
by CarlosSi
Austin is terribly gerrymandered; each district has about 700 thousand people (changes with increasing population), last night we had ONE Democratic seat for the Austin metro (of about 2 million) which are shared with large portions of rural Texas, I imagine largely resulting in an unfair and unrepresentative outcome of the district. It’s bogus. Maybe 2 would’ve been fine, but just 1 seat? I imagine it’s not just austin that’s largely liberal, no? Or maybe I’m mistaken and Georgetown/Temple are more awfully conservative.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... 8-midterms

Despite an overwhelming amount of voters in my side of town supported Siegel, he lost to McCaul.

Thankfully, give and take...

Unfortunately how can you decide who is going to be non-partisan when making the map? Clearly those in power are going to do whatever they can to “choose their voters”, and claims for a certain mapping can be bogus and upheld in the end.

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:50 pm
by trpmb6
As was posted in another thread this week; sometimes gerrymandering makes sense. Sometimes it's unfair to one side or another. I feel like the more districts that are needing to be divided, the harder it gets too. You end up having to split down a single street in places like california where your neighbor across the street gets to put a different campaign sign in their yard than you do. It's really weird to think that someone you probably identify pretty well with would have someone totally different representing them.

I'm pretty happy with how Kansas is divided. I suspect others may not be. But at the very least I don't find it to be very gerrymandered one way or the other. They just kind of fit into place due to the population centers being separated fairly well.

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:55 pm
by Dutchy
Why can't this redrawing of districts because of shifting populations be handled by civil servants without any party affiliation. Leaving it to politicians will lead to the current situation in the US.

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:15 pm
by GalaxyFlyer
First, districts is a political decision and as a famous Democrat said, “elections have consequences”. Second, expand the house to 1 representative for each 250,000 persons; make them more representative of tighter knit districts and dilute the power of any individual. Civil servants, in your mind, don’t have agendas—bull cookies. They have interests like every voter and politician.

GF

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:42 pm
by DiamondFlyer
Dutchy wrote:
Why can't this redrawing of districts because of shifting populations be handled by civil servants without any party affiliation. Leaving it to politicians will lead to the current situation in the US.


Because there is no such thing, especially after a certain phoney in chief said "elections have consequences". 2009-2017 did more to polarize this country than anything since the civil war.

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:55 pm
by Pyrex
Dutchy wrote:
Why can't this redrawing of districts because of shifting populations be handled by civil servants without any party affiliation. Leaving it to politicians will lead to the current situation in the US.


Yes, I am sure there are tons of civil servants with no pay affiliation. That is why Washington DC and the surrounding suburbs reliably vote more than 90% Democrat.

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:00 am
by Tugger
DiamondFlyer wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Why can't this redrawing of districts because of shifting populations be handled by civil servants without any party affiliation. Leaving it to politicians will lead to the current situation in the US.


Because there is no such thing, especially after a certain phoney in chief said "elections have consequences". 2009-2017 did more to polarize this country than anything since the civil war.

Yes, the Republican's did really work to divide didn't they. And Trump is a result of that. As a Republican I watched as they stated clearly their goal was for the president to fail. And they refused to work with the president or reach across the aisle or if they di htey were attacked and castigated for doing so.

They taught the Dems well on this. Sadly.

The fact is the two sides will need to figure out a way to work together again, but I don't see that happening for years. This idea that "one side" can or should control has been proven to be a recipe for failure and is bad for the nation and its people.

As to gerrymandering, I am hopeful that there will someday be a change. No place will be perfect but I think 9 member boards 3, 3, and 3 or 4, 4, and 1 woudl be best to work them out and address the issue.

Tugg

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:09 am
by FreequentFlier
Dutchy wrote:
Why can't this redrawing of districts because of shifting populations be handled by civil servants without any party affiliation. Leaving it to politicians will lead to the current situation in the US.


It’s been gradually heading in that direction through voter referendums, not through votes from politicians. Politicians are not typically eager to relinquish their own power and gerrymandering in no exception.

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:19 am
by DiamondFlyer
Tugger wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Why can't this redrawing of districts because of shifting populations be handled by civil servants without any party affiliation. Leaving it to politicians will lead to the current situation in the US.


Because there is no such thing, especially after a certain phoney in chief said "elections have consequences". 2009-2017 did more to polarize this country than anything since the civil war.

Yes, the Republican's did really work to divide didn't they. And Trump is a result of that. As a Republican I watched as they stated clearly their goal was for the president to fail. And they refused to work with the president or reach across the aisle or if they di htey were attacked and castigated for doing so.

They taught the Dems well on this. Sadly.

The fact is the two sides will need to figure out a way to work together again, but I don't see that happening for years. This idea that "one side" can or should control has been proven to be a recipe for failure and is bad for the nation and its people.

As to gerrymandering, I am hopeful that there will someday be a change. No place will be perfect but I think 9 member boards 3, 3, and 3 or 4, 4, and 1 woudl be best to work them out and address the issue.

Tugg


The quickest and most viable path to making gerrymandering useless, is more than 2 major political parties. Unfortunately, the system won't allow that to happen.

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:06 am
by GalaxyFlyer
As a Republican I watched as they stated clearly their goal was for the president to fail. And they refused to work with the president or reach across the aisle or if they di htey were attacked and castigated for doing so.


Then surely you noticed Pres. Obama telling the Republicans “elections have consequences” and refused to deal with them on PPACA. And more Republicans voted to confirm Kagan and Soto Ayer than Democrats for Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.

GF

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:24 am
by johnboy
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Then surely you noticed Pres. Obama telling the Republicans “elections have consequences” and refused to deal with them on PPACA. And more Republicans voted to confirm Kagan and Soto Ayer than Democrats for Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.

GF


Hmmm. I sure seem to remember Democrats holding lots of meetings on the PPACA, and Republicans refusing to participate.

Perhaps in the other dimension in which you’re living things transpired differently.

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:24 am
by WarRI1
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
As a Republican I watched as they stated clearly their goal was for the president to fail. And they refused to work with the president or reach across the aisle or if they di htey were attacked and castigated for doing so.


Then surely you noticed Pres. Obama telling the Republicans “elections have consequences” and refused to deal with them on PPACA. And more Republicans voted to confirm Kagan and Soto Ayer than Democrats for Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.

GF


Could it be that both Republican nominees were much more hard dedicated Conservatives than the Democrats were Liberal? Unable to bend or compromise. Maybe????

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:31 am
by c933103
The entire ISA was gerrymandered to have excessive amount of state for flyovers anyway... Despite political alignment of those places have shifted over the era but those states still remain..

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:39 am
by einsteinboricua
Unruly activist judges ruling against the will of the people when they clearly voted for this map!

Oh...we can't use this argument? I thought this was the line when same sex marriage bans were being struck down...

In all seriousness, I'm glad the map was struck down. This was clearly gerrymandered. There's no reason for the odd shapes. At issue is MD-6 which stretches from the western salient and was redrawn to incorporate more of the DC suburbs. If I'm glad when maps in NC and FL are struck down, I should be equally glad when blatant Democrat maps are also struck down, especially if they serve no purpose (i.e. none of the districts' shapes are to encompass minorities).

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:16 pm
by Tugger
The important thing about this ruling is the acceptance of the right to freedom of association as a reason to address gerrymandering. Courts have often avoided "political" redrawing and only focused on ones that involved race etc.

In its ruling Wednesday, the three-judge panel declared the district unconstitutional and found that the state intended to lessen the influence of GOP voters by replacing them with Democrats in violation of the First Amendment right to political association.


Gotta love that the governor also thought that politics would not be an issue to the courts.
In a deposition in the case, former governor Martin O’Malley, a Democrat, was blunt about the partisan mapmaking he oversaw, saying Democratic leaders intentionally redrew the districts to try to give their party an advantage.


Tugg

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:49 pm
by apodino
WarRI1 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
As a Republican I watched as they stated clearly their goal was for the president to fail. And they refused to work with the president or reach across the aisle or if they di htey were attacked and castigated for doing so.


Then surely you noticed Pres. Obama telling the Republicans “elections have consequences” and refused to deal with them on PPACA. And more Republicans voted to confirm Kagan and Soto Ayer than Democrats for Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.

GF


Could it be that both Republican nominees were much more hard dedicated Conservatives than the Democrats were Liberal? Unable to bend or compromise. Maybe????


What kind of rubbish is this? The truth is nobody really knows what these guys are going to be like when they get on the bench? I don't like the word compromise in the context of judicial nominees because there is no compromise on what the law says. The law either says something or it doesn't. Compromise is what happens when you make the laws. But when you interpret the laws, that's different. It either says something or it doesn't.

And in early oral arguments on one of Kavanaugh's first cases on the bench, he is hinting he is going to side with the Liberal wing of the court on a death penalty case. Just thought I would mention it.

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:16 pm
by DocLightning
If you can't win an election honestly, then you shouldn't be winning it. Good for the court. Just because I usually vote Democratic doesn't mean that I want my people to be gerrymandering. Democracy is not supposed to be partisan.

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:29 pm
by DiamondFlyer
DocLightning wrote:
If you can't win an election honestly, then you shouldn't be winning it. Good for the court. Just because I usually vote Democratic doesn't mean that I want my people to be gerrymandering. Democracy is not supposed to be partisan.


Of course not, but we don't live in a democracy, but rather a constitutional republic, which it seems like about 99% of the country has forgotten.

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:07 pm
by einsteinboricua
DiamondFlyer wrote:
Of course not, but we don't live in a democracy, but rather a constitutional republic, which it seems like about 99% of the country has forgotten.

That's still not an excuse to attempt to subvert the will of the people by drawing districts that favor one party over another.

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:35 pm
by WIederling
DiamondFlyer wrote:
Tugger wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

Because there is no such thing, especially after a certain phoney in chief said "elections have consequences". 2009-2017 did more to polarize this country than anything since the civil war.

Yes, the Republican's did really work to divide didn't they. And Trump is a result of that. As a Republican I watched as they stated clearly their goal was for the president to fail. And they refused to work with the president or reach across the aisle or if they di htey were attacked and castigated for doing so.

They taught the Dems well on this. Sadly.

The fact is the two sides will need to figure out a way to work together again, but I don't see that happening for years. This idea that "one side" can or should control has been proven to be a recipe for failure and is bad for the nation and its people.

As to gerrymandering, I am hopeful that there will someday be a change. No place will be perfect but I think 9 member boards 3, 3, and 3 or 4, 4, and 1 woudl be best to work them out and address the issue.

Tugg


The quickest and most viable path to making gerrymandering useless, is more than 2 major political parties. Unfortunately, the system won't allow that to happen.


The solution in Germany that makes adjusting voting districts less attractive is to fill up with extra representatives until the overall vote distribution is met. ( i.e. direct votes go first and then further places are filled from lists. )

Re: Federal Court rules Gerrymandered Congressional Map Unconstitutional

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:47 pm
by DocLightning
DiamondFlyer wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
If you can't win an election honestly, then you shouldn't be winning it. Good for the court. Just because I usually vote Democratic doesn't mean that I want my people to be gerrymandering. Democracy is not supposed to be partisan.


Of course not, but we don't live in a democracy, but rather a constitutional republic, which it seems like about 99% of the country has forgotten.


We live in both.