I hereby register my shock and convey my thoughts and prayers.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018 ... usand-oaks

Thoughts and prayers. If more people had guns in the bar, he must have had mental problems but not a dollar on my money should be spent on it etc etc etc.

my phone says 12 for the body count

Clearly the bar didn't have armed guards or else this wouldn't have happened. The shooter was a mentally ill lone wolf merely exercising his 2nd Amendment rights.

If only the gun had a gun. It could have prevented itself being used in this tragedy.

einsteinboricua wrote:

The shooter was a mentally ill lone wolf merely exercising his 2nd Amendment rights.

i didn´t see any reports he was a Trump supporter yet. So it could still be a domestic terrorist .......

best regards
Thomas

Bodies aren’t even cold and the leftists are already making it political. Shocking I tell you, shocking.

Looks like California gun laws are working. We don’t have many gun laws in my state. No shootings either. Seems city folk can’t control themselves.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

Bodies aren’t even cold and the leftists are already making it political. Shocking I tell you, shocking.

Next will be the claim that he used a fully automatic assault rifle.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

Bodies aren’t even cold and the leftists are already making it political. Shocking I tell you, shocking.

Not quite as shocking as the fact that mass shootings happen in the USA happen with a similar regularity to rotations of the Earth.

There is always a warm body, such is the frequency, so it doesn't make much difference. Some of us think it's rather unpleasant and something should be done, others think that these deaths are a worthy price to pay for the 'freedom' to own guns.

It's a shame, but it happens so often that we're basically just numbed to it. Maybe if you pulled your finger out and did something we wouldn't have to go over it every time it happens.

DL717 wrote:

Looks like California gun laws are working. We don’t have many gun laws in my state. No shootings either. Seems city folk can’t control themselves.

There is nothing stopping you from crossing state borders with guns, California still has the 8th highest rate overall, around 3 times lower than Alabama or Alaska. Stats are very pesky things, aren't they?

MrHMSH wrote:

DL717 wrote:

Looks like California gun laws are working. We don’t have many gun laws in my state. No shootings either. Seems city folk can’t control themselves.

There is nothing stopping you from crossing state borders with guns, California still has the 8th highest rate overall, around 3 times lower than Alabama or Alaska. Stats are very pesky things, aren't they?

Sure. Blame your neighbors. Petty.

Apparently the count is now 13 and I assume that includes the shooter.

mad99 wrote:

Apparently the count is now 13 and I assume that includes the shooter.

And likely the girl he was pissed at and the guy she was cheating with.

DL717 wrote:

MrHMSH wrote:

DL717 wrote:

Looks like California gun laws are working. We don’t have many gun laws in my state. No shootings either. Seems city folk can’t control themselves.

There is nothing stopping you from crossing state borders with guns, California still has the 8th highest rate overall, around 3 times lower than Alabama or Alaska. Stats are very pesky things, aren't they?

Sure. Blame your neighbors. Petty.

I didn't say that was the cause, but it is a true fact, there are no border checks, there is freedom of movement between states.

Can you provide evidence that no shootings happen in your state? As far as I can tell no state has a rate of 0.

Looks like a solid number two mass shooting for 2018 right behind some high school shooting with 17.

Looking at the wiki page on mass shootings, from 1949 up to 1980 these are few and far between but now these happen multiple times a year

mad99 wrote:

Looks like a solid number two mass shooting for 2018 right behind some high school shooting with 17.

Looking at the wiki page on mass shootings, from 1949 up to 1980 these are few and far between but now these happen multiple times a year

People can’t handle stress or rejection anymore. Cupcake society.

DL717 wrote:

mad99 wrote:

Apparently the count is now 13 and I assume that includes the shooter.

And likely the girl he was pissed at and the guy she was cheating with.

That’s got all the makings of a country song

MrHMSH wrote:

DiamondFlyer wrote:

Bodies aren’t even cold and the leftists are already making it political. Shocking I tell you, shocking.

Not quite as shocking as the fact that mass shootings happen in the USA happen with a similar regularity to rotations of the Earth.

There is always a warm body, such is the frequency, so it doesn't make much difference. .

Exactly. It is to early to talk about doing something against loonies shooting up groups of people, since the bodies are still warm, and we are still busy sending thoughts and prayers (=not doing anything or caring at all).

best regards
Thomas

Reinhardt wrote:

Thoughts and prayers.

People must realise by now that thoughts and prayers have failed to stem the tidal wave of death, something else like gun control rather than believing in a higher power must be the answer.

DL717 wrote:

mad99 wrote:

Looks like a solid number two mass shooting for 2018 right behind some high school shooting with 17.

Looking at the wiki page on mass shootings, from 1949 up to 1980 these are few and far between but now these happen multiple times a year

People can’t handle stress or rejection anymore. Cupcake society.

Sick people with access to weapons of mass destruction

Its not even mass shooting season and its looking like its going to be a big year..

Can someone from Europe please explain how to do things the right way! We need your education as quickly and sarcastically as possible!

MassAppeal wrote:

Can someone from Europe please explain how to do things the right way! We need your education as quickly and sarcastically as possible!

Already done a thousand times. See first few posts of the thread for sarcasm.

Kiwirob wrote:

People must realise by now that thoughts and prayers have failed to stem the tidal wave of death, something else like gun control rather than believing in a higher power must be the answer.

You would expect that to be the logical conclusion for intelligent beings wouldn't you. Seems not.

Kiwirob wrote:

Reinhardt wrote:

Thoughts and prayers.

People must realise by now that thoughts and prayers have failed to stem the tidal wave of death,.

You are assuming being in touch with reality. Believers in touch with reality already march for more effective gun control.

best regards
Thomas

DL717 wrote:

mad99 wrote:

Looks like a solid number two mass shooting for 2018 right behind some high school shooting with 17.

Looking at the wiki page on mass shootings, from 1949 up to 1980 these are few and far between but now these happen multiple times a year

People can’t handle stress or rejection anymore. Cupcake society.

Nowhere else in the developed world has such a problem with idiots committing suicide and/or mass shootings. Would you care to explain why this is? It's far beyond just being a coincidence or chance.

MassAppeal wrote:

Its not even mass shooting season and its looking like its going to be a big year..

Can someone from Europe please explain how to do things the right way! We need your education as quickly and sarcastically as possible!

Step 1: Understand statistics and then look at them
Step 2: Think about why the statistics are the way they are
Step 3: Consider actions to change the statistics in a positive way
Step 4: Implement changes.
Step 5: Revel in the reduction of very preventable murders and lives ruined.

It's certainly better than the current process:

Step 1: Thoughts and prayers.
Step 2: Do nothing.

MrHMSH wrote:

DL717 wrote:

mad99 wrote:

Looks like a solid number two mass shooting for 2018 right behind some high school shooting with 17.

Looking at the wiki page on mass shootings, from 1949 up to 1980 these are few and far between but now these happen multiple times a year

People can’t handle stress or rejection anymore. Cupcake society.

Nowhere else in the developed world has such a problem with idiots committing suicide and/or mass shootings. Would you care to explain why this is? It's far beyond just being a coincidence or chance.

MassAppeal wrote:

Its not even mass shooting season and its looking like its going to be a big year..

Can someone from Europe please explain how to do things the right way! We need your education as quickly and sarcastically as possible!

Step 1: Understand statistics and then look at them
Step 2: Think about why the statistics are the way they are
Step 3: Consider actions to change the statistics in a positive way
Step 4: Implement changes.
Step 5: Revel in the reduction of very preventable murders and lives ruined. .

Step 6: Repeat Steps 1 through 5.

But you know what we get if we applied ISO9001 to politics? Working governments....

best regards
Thomas

MrHMSH wrote:

It's certainly better than the current process:

Step 1: Thoughts and prayers.
Step 2: Do nothing.

"Wrong" (In Drumpf accent).

It's more like:
Step 1: Thoughts and prayers
Step 2: Guns, moar guns everywhere
Step 3: MAGA!!!!
Step 4: It's clearly the immigrants' fault, or some Moslim, or some white liberals, actually, it's just a bunch of crisis actors
Step 5: Where is my Big Mac?

Seriously, though, it's ridiculous how numb people are even though a mass shooting happen what? Once every month (if not more frequent?). Yep, a giant shootout between a mass shooter and a bunch of gunowners in a crowded space is going to solve all the problems

Why didn't they shoot back through all the smoke? I thought all modern country dancing involved guns. Why there's the "rock your stock", the "suck the long barrel", "I'll never quit you auto-loader", "you are my armor-piercing round" and my all-time favorite.."constitutional amendment clauses are fur libtards!". I guess Californians don't know how to target the right shooter when smoke grenades are deployed, unlike in DL's home state (which one is it by the way?). I hope the NRA comes out with some training videos on the proper group-think techniques of mass self defense in thick smoke-filled bars with loud music and flashing lights. They never did come out with the one about defending yourself in a crammed pitch black movie theater and that was disappointing as all heck.

Anyway, lesson learned here..when you go dancin folks, don't forget yur long gun!

Golly, almost forgot..THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS for more guns!

Nowhere else in the developed world has such a problem with idiots committing suicide and/or mass shootings. Would you care to ex

Really? Have you looked at the homicide rates in Latin America? Especially Mexico and Brazil where legal firearms are virtually unheard of.

GF

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Nowhere else in the developed world has such a problem with idiots committing suicide and/or mass shootings. Would you care to ex

Really? Have you looked at the homicide rates in Latin America? Especially Mexico and Brazil where legal firearms are virtually unheard of.

GF

Probably you missed developed from the post you're quoting.

MrHMSH wrote:

DL717 wrote:

mad99 wrote:

Looks like a solid number two mass shooting for 2018 right behind some high school shooting with 17.

Looking at the wiki page on mass shootings, from 1949 up to 1980 these are few and far between but now these happen multiple times a year

People can’t handle stress or rejection anymore. Cupcake society.

Nowhere else in the developed world has such a problem with idiots committing suicide and/or mass shootings. Would you care to explain why this is? It's far beyond just being a coincidence or chance.

MassAppeal wrote:

Its not even mass shooting season and its looking like its going to be a big year..

Can someone from Europe please explain how to do things the right way! We need your education as quickly and sarcastically as possible!

Step 1: Understand statistics and then look at them
Step 2: Think about why the statistics are the way they are
Step 3: Consider actions to change the statistics in a positive way
Step 4: Implement changes.
Step 5: Revel in the reduction of very preventable murders and lives ruined.

It's certainly better than the current process:

Step 1: Thoughts and prayers.
Step 2: Do nothing.

Many people do understand the statistics and have decided these shootings are a necessary evil in order to maintain their right to carry weapons.

At the end of the day they are tragedies but they still happen to such a small percentage of people that's its just not that important for most people to care enough to change it. You watch, the news is going to be frothing about Ginsburg and Sessions by this afternoon and we wont hear a peep about this come next week.

MassAppeal wrote:

[

Many people do understand the statistics and have decided these shootings are a necessary evil in order to maintain their right to carry weapons.

A disgusting mentality. I'm sure a way can be found to let gun owners that need have have them but people who are dangerous not have them. Happens everywhere else.

At the end of the day they are tragedies but they still happen to such a small percentage of people that's its just not that important for most people to care enough to change it. You watch, the news is going to be frothing about Ginsburg and Sessions by this afternoon and we wont hear a peep about this come next week.

The problem is that it's preventable, and if something is preventable then there's not much reason not to do it. I don't like the mentality of 'it's not that big a deal so do nothing', you could argue that plane crashes are really rare (and they are) so it's not worth implementing big changes, but any time a plane goes down few expenses are spared to find out what happened and why, and then implementing changes so it doesn't happen again. It's not easy but it is done.

28 year old marine corp veteran who suffered from PTSD. Young white guy, as is almost always the case with mass shootings. Veterans and certainly anyone with PTSD should be strongly discouraged from owning arms, for their own safety due to astronomically high suicide rates, and those of others. But that would be common sense.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

Bodies aren’t even cold and the leftists are already making it political. Shocking I tell you, shocking.

You say that after every mass shooting, as if it means anything.

DL717 wrote:

Looks like California gun laws are working. We don’t have many gun laws in my state. No shootings either. Seems city folk can’t control themselves.

CA firearm deaths per 100,000 is #43 out of 50, so unless you're in one of the last six states--almost entirely solidly left--I'd find a new lie.

DL717 wrote:

mad99 wrote:

Looks like a solid number two mass shooting for 2018 right behind some high school shooting with 17.

Looking at the wiki page on mass shootings, from 1949 up to 1980 these are few and far between but now these happen multiple times a year

People can’t handle stress or rejection anymore. Cupcake society.

Overall violence rates are at historical lows, so find another lie for that one too.

BlueberryWheats wrote:

If only the gun had a gun. It could have prevented itself being used in this tragedy.

A sheriff responding to the scene was killed. So there goes that theory. Maybe a canon?

MrHMSH wrote:

MassAppeal wrote:

[

Many people do understand the statistics and have decided these shootings are a necessary evil in order to maintain their right to carry weapons.

A disgusting mentality. I'm sure a way can be found to let gun owners that need have have them but people who are dangerous not have them. Happens everywhere else.

At the end of the day they are tragedies but they still happen to such a small percentage of people that's its just not that important for most people to care enough to change it. You watch, the news is going to be frothing about Ginsburg and Sessions by this afternoon and we wont hear a peep about this come next week.

The problem is that it's preventable, and if something is preventable then there's not much reason not to do it. I don't like the mentality of 'it's not that big a deal so do nothing', you could argue that plane crashes are really rare (and they are) so it's not worth implementing big changes, but any time a plane goes down few expenses are spared to find out what happened and why, and then implementing changes so it doesn't happen again. It's not easy but it is done.

No other country has a constitutional amendment allowing citizens to freely carry. That's the No. 1 main issue. Other countries can easily legislate guns away without having to pass the constitutional tests we do. Its not an easy thing to do like it is in Germany or Sweden where that fundamental right doesn't exist to begin with.

Another problem is how do you figure out if someone is dangerous? Right now a raving lunatic can't get a gun but a normal depressed person can. Is that enough to stop them from getting one? Is someone who hates women enough to deny? That's the issue many people struggle with. Saying we need to stop dangerous people from getting guns is a very simple and unrealistic way to approach it. Of course we should, but is a pissed off husband or a loser incel who hates women the bar we want to lower it to?

Its preventable when guns aren't already in the hands of most Americans. The reason they don't happen in Germany or the UK with such frequency is because there aren't that many guns around. And yeah, everyone makes the Switzerland argument but those are completely different scenarios.

And your plane crash scenario is different too. Air travel isn't a constitutionally guaranteed right.

And just so you know I'm not a gun nut or even a gun owner.

MassAppeal wrote:

No other country has a constitutional amendment allowing citizens to freely carry. That's the No. 1 main issue. Other countries can easily legislate guns away without having to pass the constitutional tests we do. Its not an easy thing to do like it is in Germany or Sweden where that fundamental right doesn't exist to begin with.

'We can't change the law because the law is the law' is a very poor excuse. Amendments can be changed, but there is no appetite to. The culture around guns is a huge, huge problem for you.

Another problem is how do you figure out if someone is dangerous? Right now a raving lunatic can't get a gun but a normal depressed person can. Is that enough to stop them from getting one? Is someone who hates women enough to deny? That's the issue many people struggle with. Saying we need to stop dangerous people from getting guns is a very simple and unrealistic way to approach it. Of course we should, but is a pissed off husband or a loser incel who hates women the bar we want to lower it to?

It's beyond my understanding, truth be told, but some mechanism to determine if a person is a risk is a lot better than having so few restrictions at all.

Its preventable when guns aren't already in the hands of most Americans. The reason they don't happen in Germany or the UK with such frequency is because there aren't that many guns around. And yeah, everyone makes the Switzerland argument but those are completely different scenarios.

And your plane crash scenario is different too. Air travel isn't a constitutionally guaranteed right.

'The law is the law and the law cannot be changed'...

With air crashes a problem is recognised and rectified ASAP, sometimes even before, such is the importance of safety. A shift more towards even accepting there is a problem would be a dramatic step in the right direction, but some people don't even see there is a problem. Some people here demonstrate that capably.

And just so you know I'm not a gun nut or even a gun owner.

I'm glad, I worry about the state of people who think that their right to imagine they could overthrow the government outweighs the deaths and suffering caused by having that right.

MrHMSH wrote:

Amendments can be changed, but there is no appetite to.

The clue is in the word 'amendment'.

It seems the current president is happy to try and change the constitution with an executive order to keep out "stinkin immigrants", so why doesn't he do something about it?

It is a small price to pay for freedom and the right of self defence. It is like, cars do you forbid cars, because people die in accidents? And other countries have crazy laws as well. In Europe you can buy dangerous Kindereier, a chocolate weapon of mass destruction, that the US citizen is protected from due to strict border control.

seahawk wrote:

It is a small price to pay for freedom and the right of self defence. It is like, cars do you forbid cars, because people die in accidents?

Cars are a bad analogy. They are strictly controlled. You need a driving license, car insurance and the car requires an annual safety check. Restrictions can be placed on you if your health deteriorates. And that’s just for ownership. To use the car you have to comply to the highway code. And both the ownership rules and highway code are actually enforced.

petertenthije wrote:

seahawk wrote:

It is a small price to pay for freedom and the right of self defence. It is like, cars do you forbid cars, because people die in accidents?

Cars are a bad analogy. They are strictly controlled. You need a driving license, car insurance and the car requires an annual safety check. Restrictions can be placed on you if your health deteriorates. And that’s just for ownership. To use the car you have to comply to the highway code. And both the ownership rules and highway code are actually enforced.

You should not take somebody who declares chocolate eggs a weapon of mass destruction seriously.

However, you forgot to mention that cars are built to transport people from A to B. Weapons are built to kill people. There's the big difference.

seahawk wrote:

It is a small price to pay for freedom and the right of self defence. It is like, cars do you forbid cars, because people die in accidents? And other countries have crazy laws as well. In Europe you can buy dangerous Kindereier, a chocolate weapon of mass destruction, that the US citizen is protected from due to strict border control.

If we regulated guns the way we do cars, you would never hear a peep from me about gun control again.

PTSD and guns are a bad combination. Too many with PTSD take their own lives every day, as well as family members and in a few cases, do a mass/multiple murder. Anyone who served in combat needs all the mental and physical health care they need, not limits on spending or time, do the right thing and it will be far safer, cheaper in the long run and prevent so many deaths.

Here's the actual list by state:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... 359395002/

I'm excited to learn where DL717 is from. The NRA talking point to explain away his lyin' bullshit will be an awesome display of mental gymnastics! I imagine in his state it's mostly blacks dying so you get to divide that number by ten to equate it to normal people.

seahawk wrote:

It is a small price to pay for freedom and the right of self defence. It is like, cars do you forbid cars, because people die in accidents?

Because people die in accidents, there are heavy regulations on them.
Speed limits, traffic lights, curbstones, stuff like that.
Heavy regulations on dangerous stuff generally is a good idea.

BartSimpson wrote:

petertenthije wrote:

seahawk wrote:

It is a small price to pay for freedom and the right of self defence. It is like, cars do you forbid cars, because people die in accidents?

Cars are a bad analogy. They are strictly controlled. You need a driving license, car insurance and the car requires an annual safety check. Restrictions can be placed on you if your health deteriorates. And that’s just for ownership. To use the car you have to comply to the highway code. And both the ownership rules and highway code are actually enforced.

You should not take somebody who declares chocolate eggs a weapon of mass destruction seriously.

However, you forgot to mention that cars are built to transport people from A to B. Weapons are built to kill people. There's the big difference.

Weapons are also build to hunt or for sports. On the other hand cars have been used to intentionally kill people as well. In the end it is hard to believe that in a country where you buy hot coffee to have the cup read a warning that said coffee might be hot, sells guns so freely. But I assume there is a label on the package of each gun, that says "Danger if fired, this device might kill somebody".

My Condolences to the family's and friends of those that were lost in this attack. It looks like even the California mental checks were not enough to stop this man. I am sure the analysis will be detailed, and the NRA will hide in it's cowardly corner yet again.

wingman wrote:

Here's the actual list by state:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... 359395002/

I'm excited to learn where DL717 is from. The NRA talking point to explain away his lyin' bullshit will be an awesome display of mental gymnastics! I imagine in his state it's mostly blacks dying so you get to divide that number by ten to equate it to normal people.

Don’t be obtuse with a piss poor news article. CAs gun murder rate places them at #17. No one gives a flip if you off yourself. #15 in violent crime. Bravo! #34...LMFAO. That’s about as loose as one can get with stats.

Take your race nonsense and pack it in. Pathetic.

DL717 wrote:

mad99 wrote:

Looks like a solid number two mass shooting for 2018 right behind some high school shooting with 17.

Looking at the wiki page on mass shootings, from 1949 up to 1980 these are few and far between but now these happen multiple times a year

People can’t handle stress or rejection anymore. Cupcake society.

Seems to be a lot of killer cupcakes.

DL717 wrote:

Looks like California gun laws are working. We don’t have many gun laws in my state. No shootings either. Seems city folk can’t control themselves.

Answer the question, where are you from?

wingman wrote:

DL717 wrote:

Looks like California gun laws are working. We don’t have many gun laws in my state. No shootings either. Seems city folk can’t control themselves.

Answer the question, where are you from?

The United States. Anything further is none of your goddamn business. No go back to your fake stats.

DL717 wrote:

Looks like California gun laws are working. We don’t have many gun laws in my state. No shootings either. Seems city folk can’t control themselves.

I can assure you that your state has shootings just like every other state.

Also it would be interesting to know where you're getting your stats since you're not providing a link.