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Tugger
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Re: Another big fire in California

Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:45 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Lets be honest. If Trump did visit, do you think his visit would be treated with equal respect to help understand the situation?

The key part in your comment is "equal respect".

Based on how Trump has responded and interacted with California during his presidency I would say that yes, what you note as a potential reception by people in California would occur and be "equal respect" to what California has received from Trump.

Sad but true, Trump is receiving "equal respect" from almost everyone he meets and everywhere he goes.

Now if Trump does come and does actually listen to the fire experts that are even now telling him he is wrong, then I suspect the reaction would be different, still with the fringes and those with their minds already made up unhappy, but with many others pleased. I would be (as well as shocked because I don't know that he has that ability in him, he hasn't shown it).

As to the question some had as to why this is/became political: All things that involve controlling land and the state dictating where people can live or that impacts how much doing so will cost (flood & fire insurance, earthquake or any building codes, zoning etc.) is inherently political. And when there is a disaster, most politicians fall over themselves trying to both help by providing recovery assistance and investigate and look for who to blame (anyone but themselves).

Tugg
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trpmb6
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Re: Another big fire in California

Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:54 pm

That's fair Tugg. Equal respect where equal respect is due. It's often the catch-22 with natural disasters. Damned if you do, Damned if you don't. You go in and you risk diverting resources that could be dedicated to the relief effort. You may even hinder relief efforts by being there. But you need to be there to show face.

Honestly, I don't think there is any reason for a president to visit disaster areas. Whether it be hurricane, fire, earthquake or otherwise.

I would like to know what California does on the fire management side to help alleviate these problems. Are controlled burns done? What other solutions or preventative measures could be under taken? Instead of bickering amongst ourselves, what can we do to approach this better? Wildfires are a very real aspect to many on the west coast and in the plains. I've given some anecdotal evidence of what works for us here in the plains. What can be done elsewhere? What do folks do in other countries with similar climates? Is this problem present in those countries?
 
Ken777
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Re: Another big fire in California

Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:45 pm

DocLightning wrote:
It's pretty bad here.
I work in the North Bay, closer to the fire. We went through this last year when a major fire was in the very city where I work, not three miles from my office. The smoke was so bad that you could see it indoors in my office and we had to wear N95 masks inside. If you took them off, you got a headache. The local stores all ran out of N95 masks and some were marking them to $10 ea.

This time, I'm ready. We had a smaller fire a month ago and I ordered 60x masks off Amazon. That fire was put out that same day, so those masks are still at my office waiting to be used. But really, I'm getting tired of this.


I believe the need for those masks will only continue to increase. Aren't you in Pediatrics? Should each kid with an appointment be given a couple masks while they are at the appointment? Especially those with chest conditions. It seems like it would be the same for all cheats patients as well as the elderly. I also learned back in my Navy days that in an urgent situation take a wet towel to use as a mask.

Maybe in the Era of Climate Warming major supplies of masks should now be a part of Civil Defense.

As for this month, I hope you and yours get through these horrid fires with no losses.
 
wingman
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Re: Another big fire in California

Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:03 pm

Many of you have probably seen these YT videos already, they are absolutely terrifying and I've never seen anything like it in my entire life. This is just one where a woman drives back to her home to save her horses. They all made it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR0RQ8Gx6I0
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Another big fire in California

Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:53 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
That's fair Tugg. Equal respect where equal respect is due. It's often the catch-22 with natural disasters. Damned if you do, Damned if you don't. You go in and you risk diverting resources that could be dedicated to the relief effort. You may even hinder relief efforts by being there. But you need to be there to show face.

Honestly, I don't think there is any reason for a president to visit disaster areas. Whether it be hurricane, fire, earthquake or otherwise.

I would like to know what California does on the fire management side to help alleviate these problems. Are controlled burns done? What other solutions or preventative measures could be under taken? Instead of bickering amongst ourselves, what can we do to approach this better? Wildfires are a very real aspect to many on the west coast and in the plains. I've given some anecdotal evidence of what works for us here in the plains. What can be done elsewhere? What do folks do in other countries with similar climates? Is this problem present in those countries?


Controlled burns are only effective in coniferous forests like fir and ponderosa. Fire suppression proved inadequate through the 1960s in the chaparral of central and southern California (especially as there are three types of dry scrub, depending on altitude and proximity to desert or sea). Chaparral areas naturally feature wildfire every few years, but this has increased with intensity and location of human activity.

This is why the Socal firefighters snarkily tweeted back to 45 that these are 'urban interface' not 'forest management' fires. The best solution would have been more dense, apartment-heavy development in the LA basin, but suburban expansion of single family homes was permitted throughout the last century to continue far into canyon and semi-alpine areas most susceptible to Santa Ana wind-driven fires.
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afcjets
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:42 am

trpmb6 wrote:
I would like to know what California does on the fire management side to help alleviate these problems. Are controlled burns done? What other solutions or preventative measures could be under taken? Instead of bickering amongst ourselves, what can we do to approach this better? Wildfires are a very real aspect to many on the west coast and in the plains. I've given some anecdotal evidence of what works for us here in the plains. What can be done elsewhere? What do folks do in other countries with similar climates? Is this problem present in those countries?


AFAIK absolutely nothing, mainly because the liberals in charge of the state won’t allow a tree to be cut down or burned for prevention. Thank God for Trump’s controversial tweet that is bringing much needed attention to this issue. Man made global warming or not much more can be done to prevent these fires from becoming so catastrophic.
 
NoTime
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:51 am

Thoughts, prayers and good vibes to people dealing with this dangerous situation. (Or, are those no longer allowed?)

As is often the case, Trump took a legit complaint (Cali's lack of proper forest management) and fired it off at the wrong time and with the wrong words.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:56 am

afcjets wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
I would like to know what California does on the fire management side to help alleviate these problems. Are controlled burns done? What other solutions or preventative measures could be under taken? Instead of bickering amongst ourselves, what can we do to approach this better? Wildfires are a very real aspect to many on the west coast and in the plains. I've given some anecdotal evidence of what works for us here in the plains. What can be done elsewhere? What do folks do in other countries with similar climates? Is this problem present in those countries?


AFAIK absolutely nothing, mainly because the liberals in charge of the state won’t allow a tree to be cut down or burned for prevention. Thank God for Trump’s controversial tweet that is bringing much needed attention to this issue. Man made global warming or not much more can be done to prevent these fires from becoming so catastrophic.


FFS, CalFire doesn't have 5400 employees and a $2B annual budget to do 'nothing'...grossly misinformed

https://www.popsci.com/forest-managemen ... rnia-fires
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
afcjets
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:58 am

[quote=“NoTime”]Thoughts, prayers and good vibes to people dealing with this dangerous situation. (Or, are those no longer allowed?)

As is often the case, Trump took a legit complaint (Cali's lack of proper forest management) and fired it off at the wrong time and with the wrong words.[/quote]

Yes, and thank God he did. If the media couldn’t make Trump look bad, they wouldn’t have reported his tweet, and no one would be talking about prevention.
 
salttee
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:22 am

afcjets wrote:
and no one would be talking about prevention.

And all the talk arrives at the fact that there isn't a lot that can be done to prevent fires on one hundred million acres of land when they are in the middle of a drought.
That needs to be explained to people from places like Louisiana. And it gives whiners something to whine about.
 
afcjets
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:26 am

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
I would like to know what California does on the fire management side to help alleviate these problems. Are controlled burns done? What other solutions or preventative measures could be under taken? Instead of bickering amongst ourselves, what can we do to approach this better? Wildfires are a very real aspect to many on the west coast and in the plains. I've given some anecdotal evidence of what works for us here in the plains. What can be done elsewhere? What do folks do in other countries with similar climates? Is this problem present in those countries?


AFAIK absolutely nothing, mainly because the liberals in charge of the state won’t allow a tree to be cut down or burned for prevention. Thank God for Trump’s controversial tweet that is bringing much needed attention to this issue. Man made global warming or not much more can be done to prevent these fires from becoming so catastrophic.


FFS, CalFire doesn't have 5400 employees and a $2B annual budget to do 'nothing'...grossly misinformed

https://www.popsci.com/forest-managemen ... rnia-fires


You’re the one grossly misinformed, even when it comes to your own source. The $2B was to put the fires out. That is NOT prevention.
 
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:36 am

salttee wrote:
afcjets wrote:
and no one would be talking about prevention.

And all the talk arrives at the fact that there isn't a lot that can be done to prevent fires on one hundred million acres of land when they are in the middle of a drought.
That needs to be explained to people from places like Louisiana. And it gives whiners something to whine about.


You can clear out trees and shrub in strategic areas to prevent wildfires from as easily jumping into residential areas. But you might prefer people lose their home rather than listen to Trump or someone from Louisiana, or Orange County.
 
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johnboy
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:00 am

afcjets wrote:
[quote=“NoTime”]Thoughts, prayers and good vibes to people dealing with this dangerous situation. (Or, are those no longer allowed?)

As is often the case, Trump took a legit complaint (Cali's lack of proper forest management) and fired it off at the wrong time and with the wrong words.


Yes, and thank God he did. If the media couldn’t make Trump look bad, they wouldn’t have reported his tweet, and no one would be talking about prevention.[/quote]



You should’ve stopped in your previous msg. at “AFAIK,” as you obviously know nothing about this situation. No Time would be well-advised to do the same about “lack of proper forest management”.

Do you really, REALLY think nothing has been done (nor thought) about prevention until Trump just happened to tweet about this? I’m astonished that people who can type two letters together can come up with such obviously ludicrous statements.

Sometimes it’s just better to keep one’s mouth closed rather than display ignorance to the world, especially after multiple msgs on here explain the situation.
 
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:10 am

johnboy wrote:

You should’ve stopped in your previous msg. at “AFAIK,” as you obviously know nothing about this situation. No Time would be well-advised to do the same about “lack of proper forest management”.

Do you really, REALLY think nothing has been done (nor thought) about prevention until Trump just happened to tweet about this? I’m astonished that people who can type two letters together can come up with such obviously ludicrous statements.

Sometimes it’s just better to keep one’s mouth closed rather than display ignorance to the world, especially after multiple msgs on here explain the situation.


No I don’t, that’s why I said As far as I know. Nothing regarding prevention is ever reported though, even in light of these catastrophic fires so I am assuming not much or definitely not enough. So please enlighten us (especially Salt tee who says virtually nothing can be done) on what California has done, and please don’t tell us about Governor Brown's aggressive emission cap and clean energy goals to reduce global warming, be specific.
 
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:31 am

afcjets wrote:

AFAIK absolutely nothing, mainly because the liberals in charge of the state won’t allow a tree to be cut down or burned for prevention. Thank God for Trump’s controversial tweet that is bringing much needed attention to this issue. Man made global warming or not much more can be done to prevent these fires from becoming so catastrophic.



NoTime wrote:
Thoughts, prayers and good vibes to people dealing with this dangerous situation. (Or, are those no longer allowed?)

As is often the case, Trump took a legit complaint (Cali's lack of proper forest management) and fired it off at the wrong time and with the wrong words.


Anyone who says such things are ignorant of the situation and have never lived in California, as I have, or have family still living there, as I do.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:50 am

Lots of examples already given by Californians like myself in this thread, unless you are too lazy to read.
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salttee
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:13 am

afcjets wrote:
You can clear out trees and shrub in strategic areas to prevent wildfires from as easily jumping into residential areas. But you might prefer people lose their home rather than listen to Trump or someone from Louisiana, or Orange County.
How many "strategic places" do you think there are in a hundred million acres?

BTW
I will guarantee you that there was no overgrown vegetation around the perimeters of any of those homes that burnt down in Malibu and Calabassas.

Honestly, do you really think Trump knows what he's talking about when he babbles about "forest management"?
 
afcjets
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:28 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Lots of examples already given by Californians like myself in this thread, unless you are too lazy to read.


These are not examples of prevention California is currently doing:


Aaron747 wrote:
Controlled burns are only effective in coniferous forests like fir and ponderosa. Fire suppression proved inadequate through the 1960s in the chaparral of central and Southern California ...The best solution would have been more dense, apartment-heavy development in the LA basin, but suburban expansion of single family homes was permitted throughout the last century to continue far into canyon and semi-alpine areas most susceptible to Santa Ana wind-driven fires.


Aaron747 wrote:
CalFire is one of the better management organizations in the country and they have decades of hard-won experience.


Please paste ONE actual example you or anyone else posted that California is currently doing to prevent or mitigate wildfires (as in before one actually starts)
 
afcjets
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:46 am

salttee wrote:
afcjets wrote:
You can clear out trees and shrub in strategic areas to prevent wildfires from as easily jumping into residential areas. But you might prefer people lose their home rather than listen to Trump or someone from Louisiana, or Orange County.
How many "strategic places" do you think there are in a hundred million acres?

BTW
I will guarantee you that there was no overgrown vegetation around the perimeters of any of those homes that burnt down in Malibu and Calabassas.

Honestly, do you really think Trump knows what he's talking about when he babbles about "forest management"?


As you know most of California’s 100 million acres are undeveloped and most of the 30 million residents live in or near only two major metro areas.

Have you ever been to Calabasas or Malibu outside of the strip along PCH? There is tons of vegetation near the perimeters of many of those homes and with SNA winds, it doesn’t have to be right on the perimeter.

No, but whoever he talked to likely did.
 
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:12 am

afcjets wrote:
As you know most of California’s 100 million acres are undeveloped and most of the 30 million residents live in or near only two major metro areas.
That's where fires generally start is in unincorporated areas. So what's your point? Are you holding back some revolutionary solution?

afcjets wrote:
Have you ever been to Calabasas or Malibu outside of the strip along PCH? There is tons of vegetation near the perimeters of many of those homes and with SNA winds, it doesn’t have to be right on the perimeter.
"Near the perimeters", that's part of the 100 million acres; the property owners in those upscale towns did their jobs on their property. There's nothing you can do about firebrands drifting down from a fire a mile away.

Aren't you always whining about California? Why don't you just move to Oklahoma or someplace that suits you?
 
afcjets
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:26 am

salttee wrote:
afcjets wrote:
As you know most of California’s 100 million acres are undeveloped and most of the 30 million residents live in or near only two major metro areas.
That's where fires generally start is in unincorporated areas. So what's your point? Are you holding back some revolutionary solution?

afcjets wrote:
Have you ever been to Calabasas or Malibu outside of the strip along PCH? There is tons of vegetation near the perimeters of many of those homes and with SNA winds, it doesn’t have to be right on the perimeter.
"Near the perimeters", that's part of the 100 million acres; the property owners in those upscale towns did their jobs on their property. There's nothing you can do about firebrands drifting down from a fire a mile away.

Aren't you always whining about California? Why don't you just move to Oklahoma or someplace that suits you?


Exactly, you clear closer to a mile width of vegetation, not 100 million acres.

No, south Orange County is still pretty much utopia IMO.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:27 am

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Lots of examples already given by Californians like myself in this thread, unless you are too lazy to read.


These are not examples of prevention California is currently doing:


Aaron747 wrote:
Controlled burns are only effective in coniferous forests like fir and ponderosa. Fire suppression proved inadequate through the 1960s in the chaparral of central and Southern California ...The best solution would have been more dense, apartment-heavy development in the LA basin, but suburban expansion of single family homes was permitted throughout the last century to continue far into canyon and semi-alpine areas most susceptible to Santa Ana wind-driven fires.


Aaron747 wrote:
CalFire is one of the better management organizations in the country and they have decades of hard-won experience.


Please paste ONE actual example you or anyone else posted that California is currently doing to prevent or mitigate wildfires (as in before one actually starts)


Pedantic is as pedantic does.

http://calfire.ca.gov/fire_prevention/fire_prevention

As for "30 million people in two metros", shows how little you know about the state. The population is closer to 40 million, and since you left out Fresno, Sacramento, and San Diego, there are *five* metro areas with a million or more inhabitants.
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salttee
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:29 am

afcjets wrote:
Exactly, you clear closer to a mile width of vegetation, not 100 million acres.
Then what do you do when it grows back?
 
afcjets
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:09 am

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Lots of examples already given by Californians like myself in this thread, unless you are too lazy to read.


These are not examples of prevention California is currently doing:


Aaron747 wrote:
Controlled burns are only effective in coniferous forests like fir and ponderosa. Fire suppression proved inadequate through the 1960s in the chaparral of central and Southern California ...The best solution would have been more dense, apartment-heavy development in the LA basin, but suburban expansion of single family homes was permitted throughout the last century to continue far into canyon and semi-alpine areas most susceptible to Santa Ana wind-driven fires.


Aaron747 wrote:
CalFire is one of the better management organizations in the country and they have decades of hard-won experience.


Please paste ONE actual example you or anyone else posted that California is currently doing to prevent or mitigate wildfires (as in before one actually starts)


Pedantic is as pedantic does.

http://calfire.ca.gov/fire_prevention/fire_prevention

As for "30 million people in two metros", shows how little you know about the state. The population is closer to 40 million, and since you left out Fresno, Sacramento, and San Diego, there are *five* metro areas with a million or more inhabitants.


Thanks for sharing and finally posting what you claimed was already here, this is exactly what I wanted to see.

I said most of the state’s residents are in two major metro areas, the key word being major, and while I was off by 25% on the total population, it is still true. OC and the IE are considered suburban LA and have a combined population of almost 18.5 million (including LA obviously). The other major metro area is the Bay Area with almost 5 million. 23.5 million in two major metro areas is over half the population of California or most of its residents. If you also include metro SD (which is another 3.5 million) in with metro LA (since SD County borders both OC and the IE) that would make it 22 million there plus 5 million in the Bay Area, or 27 million in those two major metro areas.
 
salttee
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:42 am

afcjets wrote:
I said most of the state’s residents are in two major metro areas, the key word being major, and while I was off by 25% on the total population, it is still true. OC and the IE are considered suburban LA and have a combined population of almost 18.5 million (including LA obviously). The other major metro area is the Bay Area with almost 5 million. 23.5 million in two major metro areas is over half the population of California or most of its residents. If you also include metro SD (which is another 3.5 million) in with metro LA (since SD County borders both OC and the IE) that would make it 22 million there plus 5 million in the Bay Area, or 27 million in those two major metro areas.
All you are doing is building a labyrinth of shifting variable detail that in the end means nothing anyway. You want to "clear" (another thing that needs definition) a mile area around something but you have no idea what that something is.

Here's what you need to do: get out maps and satellite photos and tell us how many total miles your one mile perimeter will have to be after you have drawn those perimeters around all the significant population centers, including the miles of "clear" that will be needed within those population centers. Remember you're going to have to "clear" around places as small as Paradise, Napa, Santa Rosa and places like Oaji (Don't forget Santa Barbra, Moro Bay and all those coastal communities). You can start around OC / IE. let us know when you're done with that.

And then let us know what happens when it grows back (unless you were planning to pave it with asphalt.)
 
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johnboy
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:18 am

And actually the Bay Area is closer to 8 million people.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:14 am

Building all those gigantic suburbs is already an environmental mistake, but now if you need to make a desert for miles around them, it becomes a catastrophe.

Will you also irrigate everything and grow grass for gigantic golfs ?

Or let it as dust so that when the wind blows you have a nice dust storm ?
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trpmb6
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:01 pm

There is a lot of people here basically saying "nothing can be done"

So if that's the case, then we need to prevent people from building there. If that is not your position, then you need to stop with the "nothing can be done" attitude and start thinking towards solutions.

Maybe it's as simple as growing easements along roads and cutting back vegetation enough to make a sort of barrier for fire fighting at that point.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:43 pm

Looks like the electric utility PG&E might have been the cause of the wildfire.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/pg-e-says- ... 1542161992

PG&E shares are down 16% on the news that its insurer refuses to cover the cost if PG&E is found responsible.

See also this overview: https://seekingalpha.com/article/422179 ... ating-fire
 
afcjets
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:48 pm

salttee wrote:
You want to "clear" (another thing that needs definition) a mile area around something but you have no idea what that something is.


I already did, remove trees and shrubs around the perimeter of the most fire prone populated areas. You don’t have to do it everywhere (besides you can’t stop wildfires from happening, you can just limit how much they spread). For example a fire in the Hollywood Hills could be more easily contained and SNA winds blow towards the ocean. Create barren barriers further inland so a wildfire doesn’t reach areas like the Hollywood Hills. Topanga Canyon,/Calabasas/Malibu area would be exceptions because even though Malibu is on the ocean, it has a vast forest area behind it. I never said it has to be a mile, you did, I just said closer to a mile than clearing all 100 million acres of the state which you said would be necessary to mitigate the losses from wildfires.
 
afcjets
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:00 pm

Aesma wrote:
Building all those gigantic suburbs is already an environmental mistake, but now if you need to make a desert for miles around them, it becomes a catastrophe.

Will you also irrigate everything and grow grass for gigantic golfs ?

Or let it as dust so that when the wind blows you have a nice dust storm ?


If you have ever visited California from June to November you will notice the state is very brown, very few people water their grass if they even have any, except in places like Beverly Hills, Newport Coast, Laguna Niguel, etc. I can’t speak for NorCal.

While I have never seen dust storms causing problems on the local news, which includes areas like Palm Springs and Palm Desert, I personally would rather have my house hit with one than have it burn down, but that’s just me.
 
afcjets
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:04 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
There is a lot of people here basically saying "nothing can be done"


Possibly because their hatred for Trump outweighs their concern for their neighbors safety and home. If someone like Governor Brown or Obama said we can do more, they would be all for it.
Last edited by afcjets on Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:11 pm

Some of the things that could be looked at:

Is there any sort of Shelter in Place buildable so that those living in forest/shrub could find refuge

Could escape routes be improved in line with post #88 so that evacuations could be carried out

Those living in endangered areas have enough battery power in their homes so that power lines could be powered down during ALL hazardous times
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:58 pm

There are things that can be done but Trump and his fanboy trolls won't like it though.

The core issue isn't the forest management that Trump and his trolls claim it is. The core issue is the drought (climate change)
and you don't solve it by cutting down trees and building golf courses or suburbs. To solve forest fires you need to
prevent them from arising in the first place. If you want to end the droughts you need to try and reduce emissions by enacting tougher
environmental laws*. Reducing the super-size everything mentality that exists in the USA.

*This is obviously does not apply to the USA but every country on the planet.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
afcjets
Posts: 2335
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:20 pm

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
There are things that can be done but Trump and his fanboy trolls won't like it though.

The core issue isn't the forest management that Trump and his trolls claim it is. The core issue is the drought (climate change)
and you don't solve it by cutting down trees and building golf courses or suburbs. To solve forest fires you need to
prevent them from arising in the first place. If you want to end the droughts you need to try and reduce emissions by enacting tougher
environmental laws


Really? What kind of emissions were the native Americans releasing in the atmosphere 1200 years ago and why were those emissions so much worse than ours? How many cars were on the road in California in the 1930s compared to today? Are cars thousands of times cleaner today to make up for the difference?

“Through studies of tree rings, sediment and other natural evidence, researchers have documented multiple droughts in California that lasted 10 or 20 years in a row during the past 1,000 years — compared to the mere three-year duration of the current dry todayspell. The two most severe megadroughts make the Dust Bowl of the 1930s look tame: a 240-year-long drought that started in 850 and, 50 years after the conclusion of that one, another that stretched at least 180 years.”

https://www.mercurynews.com/2014/01/25/ ... tists-say/
 
salttee
Topic Author
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:32 pm

afcjets wrote:
Really?
Again, what's your point? your rants so often seem to be without purpose.
 
afcjets
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:45 pm

The part you conveniently left out of your quote.
 
LMP737
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:06 pm

afcjets wrote:

Exactly, you clear closer to a mile width of vegetation, not 100 million acres.

No, south Orange County is still pretty much utopia IMO.


I used to live there. It's only a utopia if you bought your house thirty years ago and/or have a 250K plus job a year. They also have fires there too. I remember being at work and seeing the hills near where I lived on fire. Had very little to do with "Forrest management".
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
salttee
Topic Author
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:40 pm

The Sacramento Bee is running an article on the humanitarian crisis caused by the burning down of the town of Paradise.
What are these people going to do?

Refugee camps for fire survivors? Butte County on ‘edge’ of humanitarian crisis after Camp Fire
https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/calif ... 94715.html
 
LMP737
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:29 pm

afcjets wrote:

If you have ever visited California from June to November you will notice the state is very brown, very few people water their grass if they even have any, except in places like Beverly Hills, Newport Coast, Laguna Niguel, etc. I can’t speak for NorCal.

While I have never seen dust storms causing problems on the local news, which includes areas like Palm Springs and Palm Desert, I personally would rather have my house hit with one than have it burn down, but that’s just me.


How many forests did you see in Beverly Hills, Newport Coast, Laguna Niguel etc. Probably not very many because there are none. Its primarily scrub brush and grass. The parts that haven't been paved over that is.

Ever hear of the Laguna Hills fire? It started as a brush fire, probably started by people, and rapidly spread thanks in part to the Santa Ana winds. You could have cut down every tree in Orange Country and it would have changed nothing.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
afcjets
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Re: Another big fire in California

Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:45 pm

Yes, of course. Once again you can’t prevent every wildfire in California but there are ways to lessen how many of them can spread before they start.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Another big fire in California

Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:26 am

afcjets wrote:
Yes, of course. Once again you can’t prevent every wildfire in California but there are ways to lessen how many of them can spread before they start.


Outside of being able to control the weather, Cal Fire is already doing those things. 45 and other critics are seriously low-balling what this experienced and reknowned organization already does, every damn year.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
WIederling
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Another big fire in California

Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:46 am

salttee wrote:
The Sacramento Bee is running an article on the humanitarian crisis caused by the burning down of the town of Paradise.
What are these people going to do?

Refugee camps for fire survivors? Butte County on ‘edge’ of humanitarian crisis after Camp Fire
https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/calif ... 94715.html


What about those notorious FEMA camps?
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Another big fire in California

Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:16 am

salttee wrote:
The Sacramento Bee is running an article on the humanitarian crisis caused by the burning down of the town of Paradise.
What are these people going to do?

Refugee camps for fire survivors? Butte County on ‘edge’ of humanitarian crisis after Camp Fire
https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/calif ... 94715.html


Get people in wealthy cities in the state to fundraise to buy them tiny houses for a medium term solution? Cali doesn't have a lot of housing to spare, for a crisis youd need something you can wheel in Easy and is mass produced. Tiny houses are the West coast hipster version of a trailer. It'd be the less depressing solution for the displaced.
 
WIederling
Posts: 7333
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Another big fire in California

Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:48 am

Jouhou wrote:
It'd be the less depressing solution for the displaced.


How many of the burnt housing actually was sole residence for the occupants?

News here is going on about all the poor VIPs that lost their 3rd to 10th residence.
Murphy is an optimist
 
mdsh00
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Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

Re: Another big fire in California

Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:46 pm

WIederling wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
It'd be the less depressing solution for the displaced.


How many of the burnt housing actually was sole residence for the occupants?

News here is going on about all the poor VIPs that lost their 3rd to 10th residence.


Really? Because I didn't get that impression. In fact I was seeing and hearing reports on celebs in Malibu appealing to the county and the public to focus resources on the less fortunate that also live in Malibu.
 
WIederling
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Another big fire in California

Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:21 pm

mdsh00 wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
It'd be the less depressing solution for the displaced.


How many of the burnt housing actually was sole residence for the occupants?

News here is going on about all the poor VIPs that lost their 3rd to 10th residence.


Really? Because I didn't get that impression. In fact I was seeing and hearing reports on celebs in Malibu appealing to the county and the public to focus resources on the less fortunate that also live in Malibu.

News focus but not personal lament of those VIPs involved.

This was a "real" question actually. How many are full time residents?
Murphy is an optimist
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 2439
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Another big fire in California

Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:34 pm

Another solution to living on the interface: You are there because you like the wilderness/brush/view. So don't build an expensive 'dream house' (unless you can afford to lose it). Used mobile homes come to mind, we lived in one for a few years. And have a small room (parlor, den) with all the the stuff you want to escape with - next to the garage! And a big enough vehicle to hold the stuff. Evacuate early, earlier even that recommendations.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Posts: 1346
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Another big fire in California

Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:49 pm

WIederling wrote:
mdsh00 wrote:
WIederling wrote:

How many of the burnt housing actually was sole residence for the occupants?

News here is going on about all the poor VIPs that lost their 3rd to 10th residence.


Really? Because I didn't get that impression. In fact I was seeing and hearing reports on celebs in Malibu appealing to the county and the public to focus resources on the less fortunate that also live in Malibu.

News focus but not personal lament of those VIPs involved.

This was a "real" question actually. How many are full time residents?


Yeah, I wasn't talking about the Malibu people.

Paradise was not some wealthy resort town. The article posted discusses that though.
 
A3801000
Posts: 372
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: Another big fire in California

Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:06 am

63 people confirmed dead (65 including the Woolsey fire)
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