salttee
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Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:25 pm

Bernie Sanders intends to support Donald Trump's campaign once more in the next presidential election.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/be ... 6a15b765f1
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:11 pm

A final decision has not been made, but those closest to the 77-year-old self-described democratic socialist suggest that neither age nor interest from a glut of progressive presidential prospects would dissuade him from undertaking a second shot at the presidency.



This is about the same type of talk we've heard out of the Hillary camp. I don't think either (former) candidate are seriously considering though.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:01 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
This is about the same type of talk we've heard out of the Hillary camp. I don't think either (former) candidate are seriously considering though.

I don't think Clinton will take another shot. The whole "I still see myself as president" thing is just that: wishful thinking.

As for Sanders, it's almost like he WANTS Trump to win. Let's say that Beto and Kamala (as examples) get more delegates than Sanders does. Will Sanders then run as an independent? Will his backers still cry foul and say the primary was rigged (less caucuses this time around)? He agreed to the rules the first time around; when he lost he wanted to change them. The rules were changed as HE wanted them to...what if he loses yet again?

Sorry, but if Democrats allow him to run under the banner then they should all make the pledge to support the eventual nominee and not cry and whine about the rules, and that includes him.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:05 pm

The way i see it, anyone that is to the left of Claire McCaskill loses to Trump.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:31 pm

He'll be almost 80 by the time the 2020 elections start. Ain't that a bit old to start running for any public office?
Attamottamotta!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:01 pm

I think this is a great announcement, and I hope to see 15-20 more like it. The democratic party needs to take a long hard look at multiple candidates to see who stands up for what the party wants to be. There should not be underground cutoffs at the knee by the DNC for this election cycle.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:01 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
This is about the same type of talk we've heard out of the Hillary camp. I don't think either (former) candidate are seriously considering though.

As for Sanders, it's almost like he WANTS Trump to win. Let's say that Beto and Kamala (as examples) get more delegates than Sanders does. Will Sanders then run as an independent? Will his backers still cry foul and say the primary was rigged (less caucuses this time around)? He agreed to the rules the first time around; when he lost he wanted to change them. The rules were changed as HE wanted them to...what if he loses yet again?

Sorry, but if Democrats allow him to run under the banner then they should all make the pledge to support the eventual nominee and not cry and whine about the rules, and that includes him.


While I was watching the campaign from outside, Bernie made one of the biggest problems to the Democrat campaign, and that was not supporting Hillary and get his supporters behind her when she won the Democratic nomination. A certain external actor takes advantage of that and put messages trying to divide the opposition. Now I know Hillary was a Marmite candidate, but a least in the American system it is essentially a two-horse race and one has to choose one or the other.
 
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:02 pm

If and when he registers as a Democrat, I will consider him in the primary. Otherwise, no go.
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Dieuwer
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:39 pm

I don't get the hate against Bernie. He has the Democratic right just as anyone else to run for the presidency.
 
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:47 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
The way i see it, anyone that is to the left of Claire McCaskill loses to Trump.

I've been wanting to say this for a while. Why doesn't any "red" democrat run? If they can win in Missouri (yes Claire lost this time but she won the other two times, and there was Trump campaigning for Hawley with no support on her side. Besides, she doesn't even need Missouri to win) Montana, or West Virginia they can win anywhere
 
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stl07
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:48 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I don't get the hate against Bernie. He has the Democratic right just as anyone else to run for the presidency.

Because he whines and complains when he loses and takes away support for the winning candidate
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:00 pm

stl07 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I don't get the hate against Bernie. He has the Democratic right just as anyone else to run for the presidency.

Because he whines and complains when he loses and takes away support for the winning candidate


Then don't vote for him. Simple enough.
 
seb146
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:02 pm

stl07 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
The way i see it, anyone that is to the left of Claire McCaskill loses to Trump.

I've been wanting to say this for a while. Why doesn't any "red" democrat run? If they can win in Missouri (yes Claire lost this time but she won the other two times, and there was Trump campaigning for Hawley with no support on her side. Besides, she doesn't even need Missouri to win) Montana, or West Virginia they can win anywhere


It might have worked in the past, but I think the Democratic party is tired of giving into the demands of the far right. I think the Democratic party will start pushing hard left because this whole "being civil and compromising" is not working.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:04 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I don't get the hate against Bernie. He has the Democratic right just as anyone else to run for the presidency.

Because he whines and complains when he loses and takes away support for the winning candidate


Then don't vote for him. Simple enough.

i'm not going to. You asked why though
 
salttee
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:18 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I don't get the hate against Bernie. He has the Democratic right just as anyone else to run for the presidency.

That sounds great except for the fact that one of the requirements for being president is expected to be an understanding of politics!
Bernie knew, or should have known, that he was acting against the only liberal candidate that stood in real opposition to the fascist/criminal candidate.

I suspect that Bernie knew, but only dimly knew, that he was taking votes away from Hillary Clinton, but he was so wrapped up in his own ego that he didn't attach any importance to that fact. Heading into 2020 it is as clear as a bell that he's acting as a foil to the progressive cause, so now there is no possible claim of ignorance.

Bernie and Donald are soulmates where it comes to self-centeredness. Which one is more self absorbed is hard to guess.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:13 am

salttee wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I don't get the hate against Bernie. He has the Democratic right just as anyone else to run for the presidency.

That sounds great except for the fact that one of the requirements for being president is expected to be an understanding of politics!
Bernie knew, or should have known, that he was acting against the only liberal candidate that stood in real opposition to the fascist/criminal candidate.

I suspect that Bernie knew, but only dimly knew, that he was taking votes away from Hillary Clinton, but he was so wrapped up in his own ego that he didn't attach any importance to that fact. Heading into 2020 it is as clear as a bell that he's acting as a foil to the progressive cause, so now there is no possible claim of ignorance.

Bernie and Donald are soulmates where it comes to self-centeredness. Which one is more self absorbed is hard to guess.


That I suggest that you - instead of complaining on A.net - engage those that are considering voting for Bernie a next time, and use ARGUMENTS to convince them otherwise. ;)
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:22 am

People would still vote for him, and they’d be to blame for Trump a second time.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:15 am

Dieuwer wrote:
I don't get the hate against Bernie. He has the Democratic right just as anyone else to run for the presidency.

Run for the presidency, yes.
Run as a Democrat? Not in the slightest.
Complain if he loses a primary or splits the Democratic vote and enables a second Trump presidency? Oooh boy.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:18 am

Unless he runs as an Independent, does he not have to win the nomination through the Primary system? Democracy at work.
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:36 am

salttee wrote:
Bernie knew, or should have known, that he was acting against the only liberal candidate that stood in real opposition to the fascist/criminal candidate.

Hillary was the only one that "stood in real opposition" to Trump? Wowwwww, hope 2020 is much better

And what's the big deal, he dare challenge someone in a primary and roll over and endorsed her when he lost?
 
ltbewr
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:44 am

Both the Democrats and Republicans need to thoroughly review potential Presidential candidates, look for any sexual or criminal scandals so don't pop up later, each come up with a narrow list of 4-5 to run in the early primaries (no more 17 candidates like in 2016 for the Republicans which helped Trump win the nomination), and each present a positive act they will do and not just bash each other. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will be too old in 2020 and Hillary has way too much baggage but so far the possible Democrat candidates are not going to be winners. Trump may not make it to 2020 due to health or his crimes finally catching up to him and the R's may have to choose someone else to run in 2020.
 
salttee
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:58 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Hillary was the only one that "stood in real opposition" to Trump? Wowwwww, hope 2020 is much better

You don't remember? Hillary was the Democratic candidate and she got more votes than Trump.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:10 am

Obama said that Hillary was the most qualified person to ever run for president. The Dems kind of have to give her the nomination if she wants to run again.
 
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:26 am

salttee wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Hillary was the only one that "stood in real opposition" to Trump? Wowwwww, hope 2020 is much better

You don't remember? Hillary was the Democratic candidate and she got more votes than Trump.

President Hillary Clinton? Oh, the popular vote doesn't mean anything in our elections (for the record, I'm for the popular vote for the presidency.)

I'm sure I'll be flamed for this, but whatever. I think any halfway decent candidate would've easily won by a large margin. Even with the popular vote, I'd expect a huge landslide from anyone somewhat likeable and not all politician-y. She lost to Trump. If she had scraped by and barely won I'd still view that as an embarrassing performance.

Blaming Stein or Bernie or Russia ignores the fact that it should've never been that close in the first place. And again, I'm wondering how Bernie damaged her campaign so much? Should the Dems just run one unopposed candidate in 2020 without any primaries? He ran, he lost, he quickly rolled over and supported her
 
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:13 am

seb146 wrote:
I think the Democratic party will start pushing hard left because this whole "being civil and compromising" is not working.


We'd better. The Beto campaign shows that we're finally catching onto this though. The whole 'go high when they go low' was always a joke. Far past time to dry off the powder and take a damned shot.

Ideally we'll find a live-with-able enough candidate who understands that you don't win a boxing match with superior calligraphy.

salttee wrote:
That sounds great except for the fact that one of the requirements for being president is expected to be an understanding of politics!


Not since Jan 2017, it hasn't been...


DeltaMD90 wrote:
Even with the popular vote, I'd expect a huge landslide from anyone somewhat likeable and not all politician-y. She lost to Trump. If she had scraped by and barely won I'd still view that as an embarrassing performance.



And she's the only person in history with that distinction. Hopefully someone reminds her of that every day.


We'll need to nominate someone people actually want to vote for. That can mean a lot of things, but what it can't is the idea that whoever wins the primary is automatically entitled to our votes.

That's not how it works and the people blaming spoilers like Bernie or Stein fail completely to recall that Hillary ran what had to be the laziest campaign in recent times. Phoning in the debates and taking a week off for health reasons are mistakes that we cannot be so willing to accept in the future.

It doesn't matter how liberal or not someone is, if they choose to run a campaign based on entitlement and various other ought to's, we're fools if we expect something other than a second trump term.

I sincerely hope we don't have to learn that lesson twice.
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seb146
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:38 am

ltbewr wrote:
Both the Democrats and Republicans need to thoroughly review potential Presidential candidates, look for any sexual or criminal scandals so don't pop up later, each come up with a narrow list of 4-5 to run in the early primaries (no more 17 candidates like in 2016 for the Republicans which helped Trump win the nomination), and each present a positive act they will do and not just bash each other. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will be too old in 2020 and Hillary has way too much baggage but so far the possible Democrat candidates are not going to be winners. Trump may not make it to 2020 due to health or his crimes finally catching up to him and the R's may have to choose someone else to run in 2020.


I am so sick of this "Hillary has too much baggage". It is crap. Everything has been disproved. I would love to see Kamala Harris, Beto, Hickenlooper, anyone young and left. We need to stop Hillary bashing. She did nothing wrong, after all those hearings she had to go through under oath.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:06 am

Yes, let him run and Trump will win even more clearly. Nobody will be able to beat Trump though.
 
salttee
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:48 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
I'm sure I'll be flamed for this, but whatever. I think any halfway decent candidate would've easily won by a large margin.

At least you seem to already know that your analysis is wrong (I'm sure I'll be flamed for this). Let me explain to you why.

Candidates always take a big hit when there's a third party candidate from their same ideological side running a campaign against them.

1968 George Wallace was a Democrat and ran against Nixon while Humphrey was the Dem candidate .... Humphrey lost.
1980 John Anderson took a lot of votes from Regan, but Regan achieved a landslide via backdoor deals with Iran.
1992 arch conservative Ross Perot took votes from Bush 1 and handed the election to Clinton.
2000 Ralph Nader also ran against Bush II while Gore was the Democratic candidate.
In Florida, Bush II (supposedly) defeated Gore by 537 votes. Nader received 97,421 votes; thus Nader gave us the shrub
2016 Sanders handed the election to Donald Trump by insuring a weak turnout for Hillary. He had run against Hillary, not the Repubs.
His concession to Hillary was weak and he had continued to promise the future to his crowd.
 
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:21 am

salttee wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I don't get the hate against Bernie. He has the Democratic right just as anyone else to run for the presidency.

That sounds great except for the fact that one of the requirements for being president is expected to be an understanding of politics!
Bernie knew, or should have known, that he was acting against the only liberal candidate that stood in real opposition to the fascist/criminal candidate.

I suspect that Bernie knew, but only dimly knew, that he was taking votes away from Hillary Clinton, but he was so wrapped up in his own ego that he didn't attach any importance to that fact. Heading into 2020 it is as clear as a bell that he's acting as a foil to the progressive cause, so now there is no possible claim of ignorance.

Bernie and Donald are soulmates where it comes to self-centeredness. Which one is more self absorbed is hard to guess.

Was Hilary Clinton liberal? I didn't feel that way when I was watching the news back then. She seemed more like a centrist.
 
salttee
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:45 am

c933103 wrote:
Was Hilary Clinton liberal? I didn't feel that way when I was watching the news back then. She seemed more like a centrist.

That's a subjective call on some issues she was center on others progressive.

I think that on most domestic issues she was liberal on most international relations probably centrist. On military issues I think she was into appeasement - by that I mean appeasement of US and Israeli military commanders. I can't imagine her ever going against Pentagon wishes or Knesset/IDF requests.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:45 am

salttee wrote:
1992 arch conservative Ross Perot took votes from Bush 1 and handed the election to Clinton.

:redflag: Polls at the time indicated that Perot hurt Clinton more than Bush.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
emperortk
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:51 am

salttee wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
I'm sure I'll be flamed for this, but whatever. I think any halfway decent candidate would've easily won by a large margin.

At least you seem to already know that your analysis is wrong (I'm sure I'll be flamed for this). Let me explain to you why.

Candidates always take a big hit when there's a third party candidate from their same ideological side running a campaign against them.

1968 George Wallace was a Democrat and ran against Nixon while Humphrey was the Dem candidate .... Humphrey lost.
1980 John Anderson took a lot of votes from Regan, but Regan achieved a landslide via backdoor deals with Iran.
1992 arch conservative Ross Perot took votes from Bush 1 and handed the election to Clinton.
2000 Ralph Nader also ran against Bush II while Gore was the Democratic candidate.
In Florida, Bush II (supposedly) defeated Gore by 537 votes. Nader received 97,421 votes; thus Nader gave us the shrub
2016 Sanders handed the election to Donald Trump by insuring a weak turnout for Hillary. He had run against Hillary, not the Repubs.
His concession to Hillary was weak and he had continued to promise the future to his crowd.


DeltaMD90 is right. Your cherry-picked list, which insinuates that Bernie is analogous to Perot or Nader, is extremely disingenuous. The appropriate comparison would be to Hillary in 2008 or virtually every other major party candidate who lost in the primary. Bernie did not run as a third-party candidate.

Your list tries to create a false impression. Every Presidential election has third-party candidates who arguably pull votes from the mainstream left or right candidate. Every primary has more than one candidate from the same party. The fact that Bernie did not submit to Hillary in a way that satisfied you is your problem. Plenty of Bernie supporters voted for her. The fact that Democrats nominated a weak candidate, despite all the indications telling them exactly that, because it was her turn, who then failed to excite enough voters to beat Trump is now everyone's problem.

That so many people are struggling to learn such a basic lesson from the 2016 election is a troubling sign for the future. Whomever the Democrats nominate in 2020, I hope that person is not the second-most unpopular candidate in history. That was tried once already and didn't work.
 
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:49 pm

It’s not “everyone’s problem”; it’s everyone fact. It’s a problem that black employment is rather much better than 2 years ago? It’s a problem those with 401k plans are wealthier today than 2 years ago? It’s a problem ?Trump actually jet with Mr. Kim while “smart people” told Presidents for years not to? Those outcomes occurred while “smart people” like Paul Krugman predicted economic collapse and nuclear war would happen within months of Trump’s inauguration.

I don’t like Trump as a person, he’s a hot mess; but those evolutions happened, they happened almost instantly after Jan 20, 2017. If they happened after Mrs. Clinton were inaugurated; you’d be crediting her brilliance. Time to cowboy up and admit it.

GF
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s a problem that black employment is rather much better than 2 years ago?

Overall employment was better in April 2016 than April 2009, but I'm willing to bet people don't want to credit Obama for that.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s a problem those with 401k plans are wealthier today than 2 years ago?

My 401k is definitely higher, but being so young, it's irrelevant since I can't withdraw money without facing a penalty, and I'm certain many people are in the same boat. And while it's riding high at the moment, it just takes another market crash to bring it all down.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Trump actually jet with Mr. Kim while “smart people” told Presidents for years not to?

And what did that get him? What has Mr. Kim done in exchange for the photo-op with the American president? And why is meeting with North Korea's leader more pressing than meeting with Iran? Why is there praise for meeting with the North Korean dictator but outrage when the previous American president met with the Cuban dictator?

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Those outcomes occurred while “smart people” like Paul Krugman predicted economic collapse and nuclear war would happen within months of Trump’s inauguration.

"Smart" people around Trump's orbit also predicted that cutting taxes would unleash a massive flurry of economic activity in the form of higher wages from companies, that imposing tariffs would be beneficial, and that the nation is no longer the laughing stock of the world.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:08 pm

If you think Obama deserves the credit, and it’s customary rightly or wrongly to attribute presidents, why the failure to do so for Trump? I don’t they deserve credit, it’s business that creates the economy, but administrations create the environment for growth. Reagan, Clinton and Trump did better than Bush 41 / 43
and Obama over their terms.

Wage growth is up, even the Beeb say so

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-45448323
 
StarAC17
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:22 pm

salttee wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I don't get the hate against Bernie. He has the Democratic right just as anyone else to run for the presidency.

That sounds great except for the fact that one of the requirements for being president is expected to be an understanding of politics!
Bernie knew, or should have known, that he was acting against the only liberal candidate that stood in real opposition to the fascist/criminal candidate.

I suspect that Bernie knew, but only dimly knew, that he was taking votes away from Hillary Clinton, but he was so wrapped up in his own ego that he didn't attach any importance to that fact. Heading into 2020 it is as clear as a bell that he's acting as a foil to the progressive cause, so now there is no possible claim of ignorance.

Bernie and Donald are soulmates where it comes to self-centeredness. Which one is more self absorbed is hard to guess.


How did Bernie take away votes from Hillary? He wasn't on the ballot in the general.

He lost and campaigned very hard for her in the months from the convention to the general. I put the blame on many of his supporters for staying home because they thought that Hillary was not the lesser of two evils between her and Trump. Bernie told them to vote for Hillary.

Also the foresight and incompetence of the Hillary campaign was embarrassing. You see that Bernie was far more popular than you expected and beat you in the states that you need to carry to win and you select vanilla Tim Kaine as your running mate. You also don't go to MI, WI, OH and PA?.
Hillary should have picked Bernie as her VP as he would have been a great attack dog against the vitriol that was coming out of Trump's mouth. Biden filled this role nicely when Obama was running and the democrats need a candidate that takes no crap and has an edge and sense of humour to mock Trump. Think of Obama at the 2011 WH correspondence dinner, you need that edge to you.
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:44 pm

salttee wrote:
2016 Sanders handed the election to Donald Trump by insuring a weak turnout for Hillary. He had run against Hillary, not the Repubs.
His concession to Hillary was weak and he had continued to promise the future to his crowd.

Hmm, that's a pretty weak comparison to the rest of the list.

I don't like it when a weak candidate runs a weak campaign and then some random factor has just enough votes to (maybe) make the person lose and is blamed.

If, IF, we accept for a minute that Bernie's "lackluster" endorsement tipped the election, I'd blame the multitude of much larger things the candidate did wrong

Maybe this stupid metaphor explains it better (these are usually dumb but I enjoy doing them so whatever.) Trump was a 3 wheeled race car and all we had to do was race a halfway decent racecar to win. We race Hillary whose transmission is broken (or some car jargon) and can only race in reverse and is backing into everything and ends up barely losing. At the end. They yell at the tire person (Bernie) because he inflated the tires up but only to 58.5psi instead of 60psi. Is Bernie to blame?

In other words, don't blame someone for a minor, questionable misdeed when the candidate herself was flawed and ran a poor campaign
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:42 pm

Sounds like to me a lot of people here are blaming voters for picking the candidate they thought was best.

Everyone says "Two party system is the debil!"

But everyone says "How could they vote for that third party candidate! They ruined my candidate's chances!"

For the record, Kris Kobach lost in Kansas because Greg Orman ran. He siphoned quite a bit of the moderate Republican vote.
 
salttee
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Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:19 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
salttee wrote:
1992 arch conservative Ross Perot took votes from Bush 1 and handed the election to Clinton.

:redflag: Polls at the time indicated that Perot hurt Clinton more than Bush.
That's a single poll, not "polls". There is no question that Perot was an extreme jingo spouting conservative on all issues; economics, social issues and the military, (he even had his own little private army.) He drew his votes from the hard right and the "libertarian" types.

I remember it differently than that April 1992 poll presents it.
 
seb146
Posts: 18519
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:39 pm

I don't have time to listen to Thom Hartmann. I know Sanders used to be on Thom's show every Friday. It would be interesting to listen to see if Sanders is still on Fridays and what people are saying about this latest announcement.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:44 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Sounds like to me a lot of people here are blaming voters for picking the candidate they thought was best.

Everyone says "Two party system is the debil!"

But everyone says "How could they vote for that third party candidate! They ruined my candidate's chances!"

For the record, Kris Kobach lost in Kansas because Greg Orman ran. He siphoned quite a bit of the moderate Republican vote.


IIRC, many of us were asking the Bernie bloc to vote for Hillary, even though she is not what they wanted, otherwise, we would end up with what we have now. And it happened just that way. So, instead of blaming themselves, the Bernie bloc blame Hillary. We all keep saying "Vote Democrat and change the party from within" but the independent voters who want to change the Democratic party don't understand. The party can not be changed at the top. It has to be changed from the bottom. Mayors, governors, state legislatures, school boards. Not starting at the House, Senate and White House. That is how there are so many Republicans and extremists in control. They changed the party from the bottom.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:12 pm

That’s some Grade A, serious male bovine fecal matter right there. Hilary didn’t lose because Bernie voters didn’t vote for her. She lost because traditional working-class Democrats listened to being called “deplorable, religious, gun clinging nuts” and decided there was no room for them and voted Trump.

History does repeat itself. Dema forgot who they brought to the dance in ‘72 when they ran McGovern; in ‘80 with Carter and in ‘84 with Walter “taxes going up” Mondale.

Stop insulting your voters would be a good start.

GF
 
LMP737
Posts: 5708
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:52 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
History does repeat itself. Dema forgot who they brought to the dance in ‘72 when they ran McGovern; in ‘80 with Carter and in ‘84 with Walter “taxes going up” Mondale.

Stop insulting your voters would be a good start.



As history has shown this country would have been better off with McGovern in 72 than Nixon. If the Iranian hostage rescue attempt had been successful instead of a disaster chances are Carter would have won.

The mistake Mondale made was telling the truth. Americans want all this stuff but they typically don't want to pay for it. Reagan told them what they wanted to hear. You also have to wonder if Iran-Contra had gone down in the summer of 84 how November would have turned out.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
LMP737
Posts: 5708
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:16 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Stop insulting your voters would be a good start.

GF


Insulting POW's, veterans, gold star families, Mexicans or scary little brown people who don't speak American or pray to the wrong imaginary friend that's okay.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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trpmb6
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:20 pm

LMP737 wrote:
or pray to the wrong imaginary friend that's okay.



You try to defend one group of people yet still manage to make an insulting remark about them at the same time.
 
LMP737
Posts: 5708
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:25 pm

trpmb6 wrote:


You try to defend one group of people yet still manage to make an insulting remark about them at the same time.


Then ask the people who voted for Trump is they think god's other than their own are real or imaginary. Because I have found that people who think their god is real tend to think that everyone else's god is imaginary.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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speedygonzales
Posts: 608
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:01 pm

Re: Bernie announces intention to siphon off Dem votes in 2020

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:30 pm

LMP737 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:


You try to defend one group of people yet still manage to make an insulting remark about them at the same time.


Then ask the people who voted for Trump is they think god's other than their own are real or imaginary. Because I have found that people who think their god is real tend to think that everyone else's god is imaginary.

Well, in the case of christians vs. muslims (or jews), it's about worshiping the same imaginary friend in the wrong way.
Ignorance kills. :tombstone:

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