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fr8mech
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"Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:24 am

My son (12) participated in the YMCA's Kentucky Youth Assembly (KYA) this past weekend. My daughter (16) had participated in the past, but had never shared any of the material with me.

In short, the kids participate in mock government. Everything from drafting and introducing legislation to judicial review. The program includes "media" representatives & lobbyists.

The program goes for about 6 weeks, culminating in a weekend where the "legislature" is in session. The kids visit the Kentucky Capitol building and some even hold their session in the house and senate chambers. Unfortunately, my son wound up in the annex building.

I browsed the agenda and was impressed by the bills introduced. There were bills that addressed safety, healthcare, pollution, privacy, education, crime, taxation, etc. Pretty much stuff you'd see in a real legislative session.

On the cover of the agenda was the statement:

Democracy Must Be Learned by Every Generation

In my opinion, a powerful statement.

So, my question to you folks:

Are we teaching democracy to every generation, or are we teaching something akin to mob rule?

I look at what's occurring on college campuses and elsewhere and wonder. Are our schools passing on our democratic traditions? Are parents?

Anyone have experience with similar programs around the country?
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flyingsikh
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:56 am

A lot of what we see nowadays seems to be mob rule. Politicians will uses misinformation and alternative facts to enrage the masses, who in turn gathered more info from social media memes then anything else....and then go vote for said politician.

Politics in the west is becoming third world. Same mentality of promising the mob useless things that have no impact on anything...but the mob takes that info hook, line, and sinker....and then go out and democratically elect that individual.

Hopefully the up and coming generation had the sense to steer clear of the mistakes made in the past....But looking around, a lot of this new generation seems to know more about the Kardashian’s....then who citing in city hall/state assembly/Oval Office....perhaps they know the name, but they have no idea how things work or what issues those folks sitting in office stand for.
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:37 am

fr8mech wrote:
Democracy Must Be Learned by Every Generation


I've been thinking about the wording. It says "learned" not "taught". That implies that it is up to the current generation to learn, and embrace, democracy, and not incumbent on the previous generation(s) to teach it.

So, how do we feel about that formulation?

Do we have an obligation to teach (force) democracy on our kids and grand-kids? Or, do we let them stumble away (or towards) it and into something "different"?

‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’ ~Winston Churchill
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tommy1808
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:47 am

fr8mech wrote:
So, how do we feel about that formulation?


Pretty Good.

Do we have an obligation to teach (force) democracy on our kids and grand-kids? Or, do we let them stumble away (or towards) it and into something "different"?


Can't really force that, now can we? What would be the threat to use to (en-)force it. It is not like we could threaten them will hell and/or eternal punishment.

‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’ ~Winston Churchill


Democracy is a fairly brought concept, there isn't the one democracy. Teach kids that they have the right to determine their own fate, and they will arrive at demanding democracy all by themselves. Kids are small, not stupid. They will not all arrive at the same implementation that they consider as best, but they will see value in having a say.

I don't think we should teach them the current democratic system as the one and only, but rather why we have the system we have, the philosophic foundation and how to reason, how to arrive at their own conclusions. They may arrive at something better than us old farts.

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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:00 am

Interesting topic. I would say: teach them to be critical thinkers (make up their own mind, own research), teach them the value's of a free society, teach them to talk to each other and respect each other, teach them about government and why the government is organized as it is, teach them the different government systems and why democracy seems to work best. Most important, teach them that democracy is way more than voting and the mechanical process of introducing a law.
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:24 am

Dutchy wrote:
Interesting topic. I would say: teach them to be critical thinkers (make up their own mind, own research), teach them the value's of a free society, teach them to talk to each other and respect each other, teach them about government and why the government is organized as it is, teach them the different government systems and why democracy seems to work best. Most important, teach them that democracy is way more than voting and the mechanical process of introducing a law.


Have we failed?
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:26 am

fr8mech wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Interesting topic. I would say: teach them to be critical thinkers (make up their own mind, own research), teach them the value's of a free society, teach them to talk to each other and respect each other, teach them about government and why the government is organized as it is, teach them the different government systems and why democracy seems to work best. Most important, teach them that democracy is way more than voting and the mechanical process of introducing a law.


Have we failed?


What do you mean? Failed in what way?
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:49 am

Dutchy wrote:
What do you mean? Failed in what way?


Have we failed? There doesn't appear to be any respect out there. People are shouting passed each other. There is no debate, just hate and acrimony.

Sure, we've had some record turn-outs at the polls, but as you've written, "...democracy is way more than voting..."

I saw a headline earlier this week, and never got back to the article..."Are we in a cold civil war?"
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:56 am

fr8mech wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
What do you mean? Failed in what way?


Have we failed? There doesn't appear to be any respect out there. People are shouting passed each other. There is no debate, just hate and acrimony.

Sure, we've had some record turn-outs at the polls, but as you've written, "...democracy is way more than voting..."

I saw a headline earlier this week, and never got back to the article..."Are we in a cold civil war?"


We need to continue to work on our democracies. We need to start to listen to others again and why they are saying what they are saying, not just what they are saying. You see it all over the western world, more polarization, but I think we are in a transition period. And in this kind of period people tend to be more extreme. Teach your 12 y/o and 16 y/o to truly listen to others.
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:55 pm

Politics in the west is becoming third world. Same mentality of promising the mob useless things that have no impact on anything...but the mob takes that info hook, line, and sinker....and then go out and democratically elect that individual.


That’s exactly what Madison and crew were trying to do when they wrote the US constitution—balance faction by checks in government. We broke it by reducing the states check on the Federal government; by using social media as a platform for anyone to speak. Less democracy maybe the only future.

GF
 
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:06 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

That’s exactly what Madison and crew were trying to do when they wrote the US constitution—balance faction by checks in government. We broke it by reducing the states check on the Federal government; by using social media as a platform for anyone to speak. Less democracy maybe the only future.

GF


History is a great teacher in all things. Government especially.

The framers were students of history. They knew what had been tried and failed - Rome is often used as an example, but by no means the only one.

The key thing that we should all identify is this: People have an innate need for something to drive them. A goal to pursue. We don't send politicians to work on keeping the status quo, even though the status quo may be an acceptable thing. When life is good and there isn't anything to really complain about, we find something to complain about. Just a fact of life it seems.

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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:22 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
We broke it by reducing the states check on the Federal government; by using social media as a platform for anyone to speak.


I don't think giving people a platform to speak breaks government. If it does, maybe the government needed fixing in the first place.
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:35 pm

I participated in the same thing when I was in high school.

The real question I have, is why do people that never participated in such programs always assume that those who have don't understand democracy?

College campuses have student governments, they have college governments and they have levels of administration within clubs , Greeks houses, and the regular housing authorities.

Far too often what i see is not democracy being practiced within certain political parties, it is tow the line/follow the leader on group think. There is no rational examination of what has changed and what effects all laws have. Changes in the city,county, state, federal laws all have effects on existing and future laws and policies, and there is not enough thought that goes into making laws anymore and the effects they will have .

Democracy must be learned by Every Generation is a poor statements.

"Democracy must be practiced and participated in by Every Generation" is a much better statement, yet even that falls short.

In a representative Government, you should have a representative that is capable of practicing effective leadership through discussion and teamwork, and not by being a tow the line politician that isn't open to any challenges to existing mantras.
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:09 pm

fr8mech wrote:
fr8mech wrote:
I've been thinking about the wording. It says "learned" not "taught". That implies that it is up to the current generation to learn, and embrace, democracy, and not incumbent on the previous generation(s) to teach it.

So, how do we feel about that formulation?

Do we have an obligation to teach (force) democracy on our kids and grand-kids? Or, do we let them stumble away (or towards) it and into something "different"?

I think the wording is correct. People do need to "learn" democracy, not just be taught it. You cannot fully appreciate a political system if you don't live it and breathe it. I've studied various political systems, I've read a ton on totalitarianism, but I haven't truly learned what it means to live under such a system because I've never lived in a totalitarian state. I think that's what the wording is getting at.
fr8mech wrote:
Have we failed?

I don't think we can say that yet. The US and other Western Democracies still function. By and large, they are late-stage democracies, and many of them are now experiencing the problems that arise in late-stage political systems. But I don't think we can say that we've failed just yet.
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:26 pm

Those kids apparently learned how to operate in a fantasy world, as there is NO REAL DEMOCRACY in the USA. At best, we live in a Pecuniacracy.
Because if this "game" was about learning how real life works, those kids would have learned how to take bribes, but talk about "lobbying", and how to bow to their Big Oil and Big Pharma paymasters.

In Western European countries, the political system operates slightly better (i.e. with less corruption), but even then there is no REAL DEMOCRACY. The People do NOT rule.
At best you could call the Western European political systems: "Parliamentary Dictatorships": the people are "allowed" to put a mark to their preferred politician during the voting cycle, but when elected the politicians do whatever they like anyway.
 
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:31 pm

fr8mech wrote:
Are we teaching democracy to every generation, or are we teaching something akin to mob rule?

I look at what's occurring on college campuses and elsewhere and wonder. Are our schools passing on our democratic traditions? Are parents?


Schools try to teach one thing, real life shows us something completely different. This is not all 100% on colleges. This is also the media and parents insisting that only one outlet is the correct outlet. IMO, we have gone from a representative democracy to "he who has the gold makes the rules because one media outlet says that is how things get done for all of us" but, yeah, let's blame colleges. We need to get back to doing what most of us want. This notion of giving everything to a few always ends in disaster. And teaching kids history as well as civics is a great start. And not the history one group wants to indoctrinate but all ugly history.
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:54 pm

All of us need to remember that democracy isn't the dictatorship of the majority, but in a democracy, all interest o minorities is taken into account.
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BN747
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:54 pm

As one said above, 'it hasn't failed ....' Yet!

But make no mistake, it is failing.

Its failing right before our very eyes right now in Wisconsin and Michigan and did occur in Georgia and North Carolina.

What's the cause?

The GOP.

They always led the way in taking political sparing too far, dangerously too far.

It began with political startegist Lee Atwater, in the late 1960s, with his southern strategy 'basically the formal act of making Racism a useful weapon. It escalated from there...

GHW Bush's tacit support of the horrendous Willie Horton ad - scaring white people to death at sight of black men - still playing out to this very day, look around.

Then by labeling liberal beliefs/thoughts as 'bad' - Gingrinch. result - kills free expansive thoughts (works perfectly for conservatives).
The line is drawn and is final....there is now a permanent divide of the population.

The crescendo is reached with the quest for power by the GOP resulting in pursuing a US President over a blow job at all cost...just get him.

THIS from a party that is bursting at the seams with world's most extreme hypocrites, conservative politicians, ALL claiming to be people of god while out doing things 100x worse than Clinton's BJ. All of them had been aware of Roosevelts indiscretions, as well as those of Kennedy, Johnson, GHW Bush and more. None of that mattered, it was a chance to make mountain out of a mole hill.

Gore v Bush - Electoral theft from the Population

Dems screw up and win a Black dude. That flushed out the racists bring them out into the open.

TTrump v Clinton - Electoral theft from the Population PLUS GOP'ers accepting Russian aid (+NRA) all in pursuit of a win.

Supporting basic criminals, wife beaters, child molesters, even a racist old hag rather than politically experienced Black...they like it that way in much (the South) of country.

Democracy doesn't die on it's own. People make it happen. They chose to end it...just as they are doing right now in Wisc, Mich and NC. Those three states are hanging onto democracy by a thread... I can't imagine California doing to Republican elected officials like what is going on there. We just voted the Repubs out..simple. Wisc, Mich and NC may never have that option again.


If look back at history, you cannot find Republicans/conservatives fighting against any of the above, because supported it all!

And sadly, there is no way to end it.

BN747
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:25 pm

Dutchy wrote:
All of us need to remember that democracy isn't the dictatorship of the majority, but in a democracy, all interest o minorities is taken into account.


In my country I see a growing problem where the interests of "minorities" are in fact driving legislation in and of itself designed to retain or grow power. This is accomplished by mob mentality and used most effectively via social media. Students in primary, secondary or even college level education have almost zero to do with it. It's us as parents, power lobbies and elected officials that drive the present bitterness and political divide. Education is about expanding your mind, what we practice as parents looks more and more like closing your mind (off from anything that doesn't agree with your final and "absolute truth" point of view).

Nevertheless, I still like our chances in the 21st Century. The US Constitution is a living, breathing thing meant to change over time to reflect a consistent expression of will by a majority of the citizenry (e.g. how women and blacks came to get voting rights). You wouldn't think that right now seeing how minority voting blocks are winning elections at the federal and state level on a more regular basis, how the NRA prevents any real discourse on improved gun control, favored by a consistent majority, and really at the heart of it (in my opinion) how our "democratic" process has been flooded by billions of dollars in special interest money designed to peddle influence and buy votes. More than anything else in my lifetime Citizens United has done more damage to the true spirit of what my country is supposed stand for and I'm certain the Founding Fathers would be disgusted by it.

Truth be told, I don't worry much about "minorities" in this country, I worry about the majority. When you need to win presidential elections by over 5% and state elections by over 10% to win office and legislative power, well, something has gone terribly wrong and needs to be changed.
 
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:29 pm

I was a child city councillor at 11, elected after campaigning in my collège (Junior High) on a platform that included fighting for lighter school bags, and with a home made drawing of Bugs Bunny on my electoral poster (can't remember what the idea behind that was). I won by a thin margin, while my best friend was also elected, so we participated for 4 years, with regular meetings, votes, a budget, etc.

It was very formative, and gave me perspective, in a country (France) where many people expect politicians to be magicians.

The situation here right now is quite illustrative of the OP's question, thousands of people gathering on roundabouts to protest, and discovering that it's not that easy to decide on representatives, main goals vs secondary goals, what's helping and what's hurting their cause, how to cater for everyone, etc.
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:58 am

It began with political startegist Lee Atwater, in the late 1960s, with his southern strategy 'basically the formal act of making Racism a useful weapon. It escalated from there...


Atwater wasn’t in college til ‘69, so I doubt he was a political guru in high school. Your BS runs deep, I’ll say that, the Democrats are pure as the driven snow but those evil Republicans made a hash of things. Right, would you like to buy a bridge?

GF
 
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:02 am

The US Constitution is a living, breathing thing meant to change over time to reflect a consistent expression of will by a majority of the citizenry (e.g. how women and blacks came to get voting rights).


True enough, which is why the Framers incorporated Article V, Modes of Amendment. You want change start pushing for amendments ratified by 38 states.


GF
 
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:02 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It began with political startegist Lee Atwater, in the late 1960s, with his southern strategy 'basically the formal act of making Racism a useful weapon. It escalated from there...


Atwater wasn’t in college til ‘69, so I doubt he was a political guru in high school. Your BS runs deep, I’ll say that, the Democrats are pure as the driven snow but those evil Republicans made a hash of things. Right, would you like to buy a bridge?

GF


Nice try to attempt to diminish Racism & the GOP.

But wikipedia helps :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Atwater#%22Southern_strategy%22

Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry S. Dent, Sr. and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now you don't have to do that. All that you need to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues that he's campaigned on since 1964, and that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster.

Atwater, came online in 1981 with Reagan. But year/period is correct I said 1960s (it was 1969) when the Southern Strategy came into effect, BFD, although Dent was the author, YOUR hero Atwater was it's Gen. Lee he actually put it on steroids. so the facts remain and nothing changes ..but it's BS to you. Not the fact that he was modern era's most rotten racist bastards...but don't let that bother you in the least. You just needed a ammo for a 'liberal' bash. It speaks volumes about you.


You apologist...step in it every chance you get.

BN747
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:10 am

Just trying to be accurate, but that’s not your style. Yes, Willie Horton was someone who frightened the voters—he was a murderer, a rapist who committed a rape while out on furlough. Is that YOUR hero?

GF
 
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:55 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Just trying to be accurate, but that’s not your style. Yes, Willie Horton was someone who frightened the voters—he was a murderer, a rapist who committed a rape while out on furlough. Is that YOUR hero?

GF


What office was he running for? What sports team did he captain? What charity did he found?
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BN747
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:39 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Just trying to be accurate, but that’s not your style. Yes, Willie Horton was someone who frightened the voters—he was a murderer, a rapist who committed a rape while out on furlough. Is that YOUR hero?

GF



Accuracy not my style, I bet I can whip circles around you in factual historical accuracy via impromptu recall than you can on your best day. We had a 3rd party start a chat session and select topics that we are challenged for accuracy sake. You game? Or are you relegated to relying solely upon figuring out peoples styles?

Hmmmmm, so let's see if I got this right?

Your penchant for accuracy is so acute, that in this discussion, the wrong year of Atwater taking racism to the beyond the original Southern Strategy author intended...sends you an anti-liberal rage fit?'

Your more tweaked about 'dates and my name Atwater as the original author'..than the ploy they undertook?

Some bad wiring amid the cerebral synapses if that's the case.

It was quite telling in the manner you answered that originally, your true frustrations (aim at me for just discussing the matter) is far more salient than your being 'offended' by Atwater's actions...that came across clearer than shopping mall window.

But I'll give you some credit for that smooth ploy trying put some space between you and your defending Atwater.

As to this "Yes, Willie Horton was someone who frightened the voters—he was a murderer, a rapist who committed a rape while out on furlough. Is that YOUR hero?"

Well if that makes you happy sleep with that.

It's such an ignorant thing to suggest and you whitewashed the hell out of that description of the Willie Horton situation...ex-KKK Grand Wizard David Duke could not have said it better than you just did.



BN747
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tommy1808
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:12 am

Dieuwer wrote:
At best you could call the Western European political systems: "Parliamentary Dictatorships": the people are "allowed" to put a mark to their preferred politician during the voting cycle, but when elected the politicians do whatever they like anyway.


Art. 20.4 GG wrote:
(4) All Germans shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order, if no other remedy is available.


Constitutional dictatorship. If parliament & government tries to overthrow the constitutional order, we get to kill them. How many of them pass the law/amendment doesn´t matter....

best regards
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:32 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

We broke it by reducing the states check on the Federal government;

GF


One problem here though. As we have seen in the past states were more than willing to deny people their rights in a democracy. Jim Crow ring a bell? That injustice went on for decades before the federal government took action.
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Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:17 pm

BN747 wrote:
As one said above, 'it hasn't failed ....' Yet!

But make no mistake, it is failing.

Its failing right before our very eyes right now in Wisconsin and Michigan and did occur in Georgia and North Carolina.

What's the cause?

The GOP.

They always led the way in taking political sparing too far, dangerously too far.

It began with political startegist Lee Atwater, in the late 1960s, with his southern strategy 'basically the formal act of making Racism a useful weapon. It escalated from there...

GHW Bush's tacit support of the horrendous Willie Horton ad - scaring white people to death at sight of black men - still playing out to this very day, look around.

Then by labeling liberal beliefs/thoughts as 'bad' - Gingrinch. result - kills free expansive thoughts (works perfectly for conservatives).
The line is drawn and is final....there is now a permanent divide of the population.

The crescendo is reached with the quest for power by the GOP resulting in pursuing a US President over a blow job at all cost...just get him.

THIS from a party that is bursting at the seams with world's most extreme hypocrites, conservative politicians, ALL claiming to be people of god while out doing things 100x worse than Clinton's BJ. All of them had been aware of Roosevelts indiscretions, as well as those of Kennedy, Johnson, GHW Bush and more. None of that mattered, it was a chance to make mountain out of a mole hill.

Gore v Bush - Electoral theft from the Population

Dems screw up and win a Black dude. That flushed out the racists bring them out into the open.

TTrump v Clinton - Electoral theft from the Population PLUS GOP'ers accepting Russian aid (+NRA) all in pursuit of a win.

Supporting basic criminals, wife beaters, child molesters, even a racist old hag rather than politically experienced Black...they like it that way in much (the South) of country.

Democracy doesn't die on it's own. People make it happen. They chose to end it...just as they are doing right now in Wisc, Mich and NC. Those three states are hanging onto democracy by a thread... I can't imagine California doing to Republican elected officials like what is going on there. We just voted the Repubs out..simple. Wisc, Mich and NC may never have that option again.


If look back at history, you cannot find Republicans/conservatives fighting against any of the above, because supported it all!

And sadly, there is no way to end it.

BN747


That’s rich coming from a guy in a party that wants to squelch free speech because someone might be offended. You need to get outside the bubble. The left is choking the country off at every turn. Supporting criminals? Who keeps lifting sentencing laws? Every state run by liberals is crumbling and drowning in debt and you think this is a Republican caused problem? I gotta shovel for you so you can clean up your backyard. No one can stand the stench of your revisionist history anymore.

And people wonder why it’s damn near impossible to have civil discourse anymore.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
Redd
Posts: 691
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:37 pm

fr8mech wrote:
fr8mech wrote:
Democracy Must Be Learned by Every Generation


I've been thinking about the wording. It says "learned" not "taught". That implies that it is up to the current generation to learn, and embrace, democracy, and not incumbent on the previous generation(s) to teach it.

So, how do we feel about that formulation?

Do we have an obligation to teach (force) democracy on our kids and grand-kids? Or, do we let them stumble away (or towards) it and into something "different"?

‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’ ~Winston Churchill


I don't believe one can really appreciate democracy without having experienced authoritarian rule. My parents and grandparents grew up behind the iron curtain, and the only people I know who truly appreciate democracy are people who have lived under other systems. I don't think we should teach democracy, we should teach the failed alternatives. Humans aren't capable of appreciating what they have until they understand what it might be like when it has been taken away.
 
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lugie
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:11 pm

Re: "Democracy must be learned by every generation"

Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:52 pm

DL717 wrote:

That’s rich coming from a guy in a party that wants to squelch free speech because someone might be offended. You need to get outside the bubble. The left is choking the country off at every turn. Supporting criminals? Who keeps lifting sentencing laws? Every state run by liberals is crumbling and drowning in debt and you think this is a Republican caused problem? I gotta shovel for you so you can clean up your backyard. No one can stand the stench of your revisionist history anymore.

And people wonder why it’s damn near impossible to have civil discourse anymore.



I've recently been trying to avoid arguing with conservatives because they're completely resistant to any input that disagrees with what they hear in their echo chambers and it's very exhausting to have these conversations.

But sometimes I read statements like this one and it's just so factually wrong it hurts.

So, now for actual facts re "crumbling states":

Out of the top 10 states with the highest Human Development Index, a full 8/10 are deep blue traditional Democratic states and the remaining two have been purple in some years but the rest of the time turned out overwhelmingly for Democrats:
MA, CT, NJ, MN, MD, NH, PA, NY, CO, HI

At the bottom of the list, there are 10 that are as deep red as it gets:
ID, SC, TN, OK, LA, AL, KY, WV, AR, MS

Coincidence? I think not.
The lesson? The GOP in power is bad for America and bad for Americans
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