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AA747123
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California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:57 am

California is planning on beginning to tax text messages. This is pure insanity. I know that California is bankrupt and has a huge deficit, but basically this is a tax on the freedom of speech. We should not be taxed on freedom of speech.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/201 ... 293656002/
 
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seb146
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:13 am

1. It is just a proposal
2. California is running a budget surplus
3. This is to make up for people not using home phones and has zero to do with "freedom of speech"
4. This would be a tax on a service and not content

More fake outrage from the right over what they don't know. Thank you.
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c933103
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:19 am

Do they know what is, and more importantly what is not, a text?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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ER757
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:20 am

The only way I could see this ever happening would be as a flat per-month charge on the user's bill, not a per message fee. Just my opinion
 
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seb146
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:24 am

I use Verizon and I can see how many texts I send per month. IIRC, it was that way with AT&T also.

I am no fan of CPUC. They shield PG&E at every turn. Because of the decline of voice, this added fee would replace fees for voice and help low income families who need service. Like the elderly, and disabled. I doubt the average consumer in California would notice.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:27 am

Current budget surplus, look into its built-up infrastructure deficit, pension liabilities, poverty rates and California is deeply in debt. Then add in their financial dependence on a very small, risc tax base, they are a recession away from deep debt. It’s no accident how many California cities have gone into bankruptcy.


Gf


Gf
 
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c933103
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:31 am

seb146 wrote:
I use Verizon and I can see how many texts I send per month. IIRC, it was that way with AT&T also.

I am no fan of CPUC. They shield PG&E at every turn. Because of the decline of voice, this added fee would replace fees for voice and help low income families who need service. Like the elderly, and disabled. I doubt the average consumer in California would notice.

How many still use SMS nowadays? And I assume most of their users would be the less technologically advanced groups that are left behind by the digital divide?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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seb146
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:32 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Current budget surplus, look into its built-up infrastructure deficit, pension liabilities, poverty rates and California is deeply in debt. Then add in their financial dependence on a very small, risc tax base, they are a recession away from deep debt. It’s no accident how many California cities have gone into bankruptcy.


Gf


Gf


Sources, please?

Literally every state is a recession away from deep debt. I recall Vallejo did because they had no tax base and the Bush recession made everything worse. Deficit spending is not good and Vallejo proved it.
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seb146
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:36 am

c933103 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I use Verizon and I can see how many texts I send per month. IIRC, it was that way with AT&T also.

I am no fan of CPUC. They shield PG&E at every turn. Because of the decline of voice, this added fee would replace fees for voice and help low income families who need service. Like the elderly, and disabled. I doubt the average consumer in California would notice.

How many still use SMS nowadays? And I assume most of their users would be the less technologically advanced groups that are left behind by the digital divide?


A lot of people use text. It is easier to have a private conversation by text than on any social media site. I don't know enough people to use Snapchat or Kik and I hate the twitter machine. Text is still a powerful thing for many of us. Besides, when any of the social media sites go down, we turn to text to keep in touch.
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bagoldex
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:38 am

A surcharge of a few bucks. Who’s even going to notice?
 
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c933103
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:23 am

seb146 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I use Verizon and I can see how many texts I send per month. IIRC, it was that way with AT&T also.

I am no fan of CPUC. They shield PG&E at every turn. Because of the decline of voice, this added fee would replace fees for voice and help low income families who need service. Like the elderly, and disabled. I doubt the average consumer in California would notice.

How many still use SMS nowadays? And I assume most of their users would be the less technologically advanced groups that are left behind by the digital divide?


A lot of people use text. It is easier to have a private conversation by text than on any social media site. I don't know enough people to use Snapchat or Kik and I hate the twitter machine. Text is still a powerful thing for many of us. Besides, when any of the social media sites go down, we turn to text to keep in touch.

Whatsapp, Line, Telegram, etc. doesn't count as social media site and provide much better alternative to text?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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tommy1808
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:51 am

seb146 wrote:
More fake outrage from the right over what they don't know. Thank you.


They just have to draw attention away from what a going on right now with Trump being a criminal.

Best regards
Thomas
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Francoflier
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:53 am

Just about the only SMS I get anymore are annoying spams from annoying companies.
They can tax the crap out of them as far as I'm concerned, I'll be out here in the 21st century using messaging apps over the internet along with everyone I know.
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fr8mech
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:28 am

Unreal. You guys would accept any tax, wouldn't you?

Francoflier wrote:
Just about the only SMS I get anymore are annoying spams from annoying companies.
They can tax the crap out of them as far as I'm concerned, I'll be out here in the 21st century using messaging apps over the internet along with everyone I know.


So, "it doesn't affect me, tax the hell out of it?"

bagoldex wrote:
A surcharge of a few bucks. Who’s even going to notice?


It's just a little money. Who cares? A few pennies here, a few pennies there, right?

c933103 wrote:
How many still use SMS nowadays? And I assume most of their users would be the less technologically advanced groups that are left behind by the digital divide?


So, another tax on the poor and disadvantaged?

AA747123 wrote:
We should not be taxed on freedom of speech.


No we shouldn't, and aren't. This tax would not be an affront to free speech. It's just a tax on communication. We pay those all the time.

It's just more governmental creep into the lives of the people it affects. It's an erosion of liberty.
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Francoflier
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:31 am

fr8mech wrote:
So, "it doesn't affect me, tax the hell out of it?"


I don't know if you can't read past the sarcasm or just choose to ignore it to foment outrage, but the fact is that phone communications were taxed before.
They concerned phone calls however, which, due to their declining popularity in favor of text-based communication, have led to the decrease of the associated tax revenue. This tax is being proposed to compensate for the lost revenue for the state, used to fund access to communications to those who can afford it the least.

How you view this social program is one thing, but in any case the goal is not to tax people more, but to compensate for lost revenue by adapting the taxation scheme, thereby bringing back the tax burden pretty much to what it was before.

fr8mech wrote:
So, another tax on the poor and disadvantaged?


:sarcastic:
This tax is designed to help the poor and disadvantaged...

fr8mech wrote:
It's just more governmental creep into the lives of the people it affects. It's an erosion of liberty.


Why is it always straight to the big words with the conservatives? Always with the 'freedom' and the 'liberty'...
There is no such thing as absolute freedom and liberty. Yours stops where mine and everybody else's begins. We live in an organized society. Taxes are a fact of life as they are the price of civilization.
Unless you are one of those extremist tea party types who would rather we had no government and let the laws of the middles ages reign over the country again, then it's death and taxes for you along with the rest of us. Nobody likes it but most of us would agree that it is a necessary annoyance.

The debate then is what we pay taxes for... In this case, it would seem to be a limited tax used to compensate for another one that is not being levied as much anymore (no net increase in theory), and used to allow access to communications to those who might not otherwise be able to afford that liberty (see what I did there?).
I don't know enough about the program to proffer a better opinion, and I suspect neither do you. But this is not an issue that will make me lose sleep at night. In any case, I doubt it will go anywhere anyway.

Those with a political agenda, however, are more than happy to use the at-first-glance outrageous nature of the headline to rabble-rouse while avoiding, as always, to delve into the much more mundane details of the issue...
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ltbewr
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:39 am

Just apply the sales tax or add or raise the existing special tax/fee for 'lifeline' services to rural communities, the elderly and poor to monthly fees.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:50 am

Don't know if Californians are the same, but here I can go months without sending a text. Everyone just uses WhatsApp, FB messenger etc.
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Flighty
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:57 am

In my peer group text is how we communicate (if we communicate), but worth noting that Apple iPhone to iPhone "text messages" are actually internet chat messages. They are not going between the "phone numbers" as text messages, in the phone company sense.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:18 pm

c933103 wrote:
...
How many still use SMS nowadays? And I assume most of their users would be the less technologically advanced groups that are left behind by the digital divide?


iMessage uses SMS as a backup, I am sure Andriod has a similar feature.

Almost all traffic warning signs operate on text messages. Very efficient way.

Most of the US population are left behind by the digital divide, only metro areas have an advantage when it comes to high-speed data.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:53 pm

ER757 wrote:
The only way I could see this ever happening would be as a flat per-month charge on the user's bill, not a per message fee. Just my opinion

If I understand this correctly, it's how it's being proposed. Not a tax per text message but rather on the charge for the ability to text.

AA747123 wrote:
We should not be taxed on freedom of speech.
By that logic we shouldn't be CHARGED for using phone service...after all, if a text is considered freedom of speech we shouldn't be charged on it either.
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c933103
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:54 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
c933103 wrote:
...
How many still use SMS nowadays? And I assume most of their users would be the less technologically advanced groups that are left behind by the digital divide?


iMessage uses SMS as a backup, I am sure Andriod has a similar feature.

Almost all traffic warning signs operate on text messages. Very efficient way.

Most of the US population are left behind by the digital divide, only metro areas have an advantage when it comes to high-speed data.

To put it this way, all android messaging tools are cross platform and rather all or nothing, so usually there is a common messaging tool in a region and that everyone who are using mobile phone have that single tool installed, and it is expected ti get everyone who you need to communicate with to install that tool, otherwise fallbacks are usually direct telephone call, word-of-mouth, email, paper communication.
Seems like the "SMS fallback" thing is only a problem in the US where a large enough population use some tools that are exclusive to one platform.
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FatCat
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:47 pm

I'm sorry but
don't you pay VAT on your monthly / weekly phone bill, landline or mobile?
isn't VAT a tax?
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DL717
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:51 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Current budget surplus, look into its built-up infrastructure deficit, pension liabilities, poverty rates and California is deeply in debt. Then add in their financial dependence on a very small, risc tax base, they are a recession away from deep debt. It’s no accident how many California cities have gone into bankruptcy.


Gf


Gf


Time to change the old lyrics...”I left my life savings, in San Francisco...”

California will tax the hell out of everyone like they’re in Europe. The only problem is, to move to the next state over you don’t have to apply for citizenship. It’s well on it’s way to becoming a two class state.

tommy1808 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
More fake outrage from the right over what they don't know. Thank you.


They just have to draw attention away from what a going on right now with Trump being a criminal.

Best regards
Thomas


No one gives a rip. We have President Pence on standby. As long as he doesn’t pardon Trump like Ford pardoned Nixon he’ll be elected in 2020.
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slider
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:57 pm

Good Lawd, CA (and IL/NY/CT/NJ, etc, for that matter) will stop at nothing to tax almost everything imaginable.

And to the poster who asked about the state of CA finances, here you go: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/27/califor ... ecade.html

https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings/california

California ranks 42nd among the US states for fiscal health. California has between 0.82 and 1.62 times the cash needed to cover short-term obligations, well below the US average. Revenues exceed expenses by 4 percent, with an improving net position of $271 per capita. In the long run, California’s negative net asset ratio of 0.57 points to the use of debt and large unfunded obligations. Long-term liabilities are higher than the national average, at 92 percent of total assets, or $5,642 per capita. Total unfunded pension liabilities that are guaranteed to be paid are $1,190.84 billion, or 54 percent of state personal income. OPEB are $106.06 billion, or 5 percent of state personal income.


Put simply, the annual budget surplus is literally a drop in the well when you factor in the massive untenable issues CA faces--infrastructure (water being foremost among them), the monster tax burden and oppressive regulatory environment, high cost of living and housing, and the cost of illegal immigration.

And that's without contemplating the $1.3T in total government debt--state and local--(they have over $1 TRILLION in total pension liability alone, so the real number of aggregate debt is probably substantially higher).

But Moonbeam smiles about his annual budget surpluses. It's the definition of lunacy and of putting a Band-Aid on a gunshot wound.
 
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casinterest
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:11 pm

CA is evaluating it, because when you get to the Brass tacks over it, there is a budget deficit in the Telecommunications funding for rural and needy households due to the fact less calls are made over phones ,and there are less home lines. So California either needs to raise the taxes on it's currently available lines and telecommunications products, or find a new way to generate the revenue to meet it's legal requirements.

Unlike Trump and the GOP, they can't just cut taxes and keep spending.

So they are looking at adding a tax for texts, but in reality, they will need to get a tax for data/text as most folks use bundled plans.
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Flighty
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:42 pm

If I don't need a landline, why do needy households?
 
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casinterest
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:53 pm

Flighty wrote:
If I don't need a landline, why do needy households?


Telecommunications act isn't limited to landlines, it extends to cellphones.

Utilities also apply the same tax for needy households.
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CitizenJustin
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:27 pm

I love reading comments about California from our conservative friends. The outrage, the hate, lol.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:44 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
I love reading comments about California from our conservative friends. The outrage, the hate, lol.


I'm enjoying it.

I for one understand the intent of the tax. Quite similar to the problem states / feds will face with the growing use of hybrid and electric vehicles that don't consume much (or any) gas and thus fuel tax revenue drops. I think the roll out, the messaging and the optics of this proposal was botched though. Should really have just been a - we're going to raise the taxes and fees we already levy, and that new revenue will be used to bolster these other programs - instead of taxing text messages, which is rather silly to think about. It'll just drive people to go use other forms of messaging to be honest.

I do find it slightly humorous that the goal is to tax cell phone use so that they can help provide access to cell phones.
 
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seb146
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:39 pm

slider wrote:
Good Lawd, CA (and IL/NY/CT/NJ, etc, for that matter) will stop at nothing to tax almost everything imaginable.

And to the poster who asked about the state of CA finances, here you go: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/27/califor ... ecade.html

https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings/california

California ranks 42nd among the US states for fiscal health. California has between 0.82 and 1.62 times the cash needed to cover short-term obligations, well below the US average. Revenues exceed expenses by 4 percent, with an improving net position of $271 per capita. In the long run, California’s negative net asset ratio of 0.57 points to the use of debt and large unfunded obligations. Long-term liabilities are higher than the national average, at 92 percent of total assets, or $5,642 per capita. Total unfunded pension liabilities that are guaranteed to be paid are $1,190.84 billion, or 54 percent of state personal income. OPEB are $106.06 billion, or 5 percent of state personal income.


Put simply, the annual budget surplus is literally a drop in the well when you factor in the massive untenable issues CA faces--infrastructure (water being foremost among them), the monster tax burden and oppressive regulatory environment, high cost of living and housing, and the cost of illegal immigration.

And that's without contemplating the $1.3T in total government debt--state and local--(they have over $1 TRILLION in total pension liability alone, so the real number of aggregate debt is probably substantially higher).

But Moonbeam smiles about his annual budget surpluses. It's the definition of lunacy and of putting a Band-Aid on a gunshot wound.


A couple of notes:

Pensions are "underfunded" mostly because public employees who are lucky enough to get pensions are living longer. Also, infrastructure funding is short because people keep moving here from other states. Hell hole that it is. Even though you Republicans keep crying about how awful California is, you all keep moving there. Speaks volumes. Not to mention that California keeps other states like MS and KS and AL afloat. Maybe Republican states should stop state funded health care and state funded food stamps? They are too lazy to get a job, why should California enable their laziness?
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seb146
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:45 pm

Flighty wrote:
If I don't need a landline, why do needy households?


The brosband and I helped take care of a lady in the hills of Marin County. She lived alone. There were neighbors close to her. One would go see her every day. She was going blind, her immune system was lowered, she had trouble going up and down her stairs. She had a subsidized phone because she was living on a small pension from where she worked and Social Security. She could not afford to move. What if something happened to her? If she fell and broke a hip? She also needed a phone to call us or her neighbor if she needed her medications or some mechanical thing was wrong.

There are many people who need a phone for simple reasons.
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seb146
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:47 pm

I find it interesting how hateful and angry the party of Christianity and Jesus is. So much hate and anger toward those less fortunate. We can't give them anything so we can be just like Christ. Compassionate conservatism at it's finest!
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bagoldex
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:03 pm

seb146 wrote:
I find it interesting how hateful and angry the party of Christianity and Jesus is. So much hate and anger toward those less fortunate. We can't give them anything so we can be just like Christ. Compassionate conservatism at it's finest!


You mean the party of Republican Jesus ...

https://youtu.be/SZ2L-R8NgrA
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:07 pm

seb146 wrote:
We can't give them anything so we can be just like Christ.

Oh they believe in giving to the less fortunate...just not their own items. Tax dollars are better spent in war machinery than healthcare or education. The NERVE of those lazy bums.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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trpmb6
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:10 pm

seb146 wrote:
Not to mention that California keeps other states like MS and KS and AL afloat. Maybe Republican states should stop state funded health care and state funded food stamps? They are too lazy to get a job, why should California enable their laziness?



Erm, don't through Kansas in with that lot. Kansas sends more tax money to DC than it receives back. Normalized, it's better than California.

Image

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... rs/361668/
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:16 pm

seb146 wrote:
I find it interesting how hateful and angry the party of Christianity and Jesus is. So much hate and anger toward those less fortunate. We can't give them anything so we can be just like Christ. Compassionate conservatism at it's finest!


No hate or anger from me. I understand that some people need assistance and I'm not against helping them. We should help those who truly can't help themselves because of physical or mental impairments. But do you ever maybe think "hmm, this might be going too far" when it comes to taxation? Or is any tax levied by your favored party good to go?
 
Flaps
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:31 pm

I must be reading a completely different thread than most. It seems to me that most of the hate and derision is coming from liberals. There has actually been little comment from the so called right. In fact I don't see a single hateful comment from the right among the few comments that even come from that direction. A few posts disagreeing with the tax but disagreement hardly equates to hate.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:36 pm

slider wrote:
Good Lawd, CA (and IL/NY/CT/NJ, etc, for that matter) will stop at nothing to tax almost everything imaginable.

And to the poster who asked about the state of CA finances, here you go: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/27/califor ... ecade.html

https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings/california

California ranks 42nd among the US states for fiscal health. California has between 0.82 and 1.62 times the cash needed to cover short-term obligations, well below the US average. Revenues exceed expenses by 4 percent, with an improving net position of $271 per capita. In the long run, California’s negative net asset ratio of 0.57 points to the use of debt and large unfunded obligations. Long-term liabilities are higher than the national average, at 92 percent of total assets, or $5,642 per capita. Total unfunded pension liabilities that are guaranteed to be paid are $1,190.84 billion, or 54 percent of state personal income. OPEB are $106.06 billion, or 5 percent of state personal income.


Put simply, the annual budget surplus is literally a drop in the well when you factor in the massive untenable issues CA faces--infrastructure (water being foremost among them), the monster tax burden and oppressive regulatory environment, high cost of living and housing, and the cost of illegal immigration.

And that's without contemplating the $1.3T in total government debt--state and local--(they have over $1 TRILLION in total pension liability alone, so the real number of aggregate debt is probably substantially higher).

But Moonbeam smiles about his annual budget surpluses. It's the definition of lunacy and of putting a Band-Aid on a gunshot wound.

Always fun seeing conservatives incoherently using CA as their favorite whipping boy, in spite of it being the 5th largest economy in the world, the world capital of tech, entertainment, and the largest agricultural economy in the US, while the wealthiest of them are still parading into the state to snap up real estate. Maybe they can all scuttle back to whatever economic success story from whence they came, whether it's Brownbackistan, or the Bible Belt sh!thole, Kentucky, West Virginia--you name it--all of whom would fall over themselves to throw money at any of these tech companies for just a piece of the action. CA has problems like every state, but it's also swinging from success to success while the GOP is trying to figure out how to make killing coal miners easier on job creators. :roll: And the GOP laughably wringing their hands over infrastructure, affordable housing, or homelessness is not fooling anyone--it's right up there with them worrying about CA's debt while blowing the federal debt out of the water....again...in spite of the longest bull run in history. It's always some yahoo from backwoods LA or AL who declares "I don't want to turn this state into CA"--honey, bless your little heart you don't have the brains, the talent, or the money so you are #safe. :rotfl:
I don't take responsibility at all
 
User avatar
Berevoff
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:19 pm

Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:51 pm

If you don't support this plan you are a bad person.
 
slider
Posts: 7577
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:40 pm

seb146 wrote:
slider wrote:
Good Lawd, CA (and IL/NY/CT/NJ, etc, for that matter) will stop at nothing to tax almost everything imaginable.

And to the poster who asked about the state of CA finances, here you go: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/27/califor ... ecade.html

https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings/california

California ranks 42nd among the US states for fiscal health. California has between 0.82 and 1.62 times the cash needed to cover short-term obligations, well below the US average. Revenues exceed expenses by 4 percent, with an improving net position of $271 per capita. In the long run, California’s negative net asset ratio of 0.57 points to the use of debt and large unfunded obligations. Long-term liabilities are higher than the national average, at 92 percent of total assets, or $5,642 per capita. Total unfunded pension liabilities that are guaranteed to be paid are $1,190.84 billion, or 54 percent of state personal income. OPEB are $106.06 billion, or 5 percent of state personal income.


Put simply, the annual budget surplus is literally a drop in the well when you factor in the massive untenable issues CA faces--infrastructure (water being foremost among them), the monster tax burden and oppressive regulatory environment, high cost of living and housing, and the cost of illegal immigration.

And that's without contemplating the $1.3T in total government debt--state and local--(they have over $1 TRILLION in total pension liability alone, so the real number of aggregate debt is probably substantially higher).

But Moonbeam smiles about his annual budget surpluses. It's the definition of lunacy and of putting a Band-Aid on a gunshot wound.


A couple of notes:

Pensions are "underfunded" mostly because public employees who are lucky enough to get pensions are living longer. Also, infrastructure funding is short because people keep moving here from other states. Hell hole that it is. Even though you Republicans keep crying about how awful California is, you all keep moving there. Speaks volumes. Not to mention that California keeps other states like MS and KS and AL afloat. Maybe Republican states should stop state funded health care and state funded food stamps? They are too lazy to get a job, why should California enable their laziness?


Clarifications:
* CA has underfunded pension contributions. Yes, the pension liability is outpacing it, including on account of some of the reasons you cite, but they know that they're underfunded based on those actuarial curves, etc.
* Growth is a problem with infrastructure. TX has the same problem (albeit with higher rate of current growth) with water. the Gov is wanting to allocate rainy day funds to help with this; at least the state HAS such a vehicle for capital funding. CA does not. Roads? Shit, everyone everywhere is always crying about roads, hardly unique to CA.

Finally, for like the umpteenth time, I'm not a Republican.
 
slider
Posts: 7577
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: California to tax text messages

Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:44 pm

Flaps wrote:
I must be reading a completely different thread than most. It seems to me that most of the hate and derision is coming from liberals. There has actually been little comment from the so called right. In fact I don't see a single hateful comment from the right among the few comments that even come from that direction. A few posts disagreeing with the tax but disagreement hardly equates to hate.


They're great at demagoguery.

Alinsky's rules are kept bedside, to be utilized whenever they can--polarize the enemy, which is how leftists generally view anyone who disagrees with them.
 
Pi7472000
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: California to tax text messages

Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:48 am

No issues with this tax! CA is amazing place to live...beautiful coasts, amazing economy, mountains and lovely people. I love how friendly CA is as well!! Such a liberal and accepting place except for a few places. I love how the right is so jealous of CA's success that they always try to make it sound like the worst place on Earth. They can keep it up as it keeps right wing peolle from moving here. California forever!! We are tired of subsiding places like Indinana, Alabama, Texas and Georgia with our great economy. I hope this bill passes!!
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22335
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: California to tax text messages

Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:21 am

slider wrote:
seb146 wrote:
slider wrote:
Good Lawd, CA (and IL/NY/CT/NJ, etc, for that matter) will stop at nothing to tax almost everything imaginable.

And to the poster who asked about the state of CA finances, here you go: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/27/califor ... ecade.html

https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings/california



Put simply, the annual budget surplus is literally a drop in the well when you factor in the massive untenable issues CA faces--infrastructure (water being foremost among them), the monster tax burden and oppressive regulatory environment, high cost of living and housing, and the cost of illegal immigration.

And that's without contemplating the $1.3T in total government debt--state and local--(they have over $1 TRILLION in total pension liability alone, so the real number of aggregate debt is probably substantially higher).

But Moonbeam smiles about his annual budget surpluses. It's the definition of lunacy and of putting a Band-Aid on a gunshot wound.


A couple of notes:

Pensions are "underfunded" mostly because public employees who are lucky enough to get pensions are living longer. Also, infrastructure funding is short because people keep moving here from other states. Hell hole that it is. Even though you Republicans keep crying about how awful California is, you all keep moving there. Speaks volumes. Not to mention that California keeps other states like MS and KS and AL afloat. Maybe Republican states should stop state funded health care and state funded food stamps? They are too lazy to get a job, why should California enable their laziness?


Clarifications:
* CA has underfunded pension contributions. Yes, the pension liability is outpacing it, including on account of some of the reasons you cite, but they know that they're underfunded based on those actuarial curves, etc.
* Growth is a problem with infrastructure. TX has the same problem (albeit with higher rate of current growth) with water. the Gov is wanting to allocate rainy day funds to help with this; at least the state HAS such a vehicle for capital funding. CA does not. Roads? Shit, everyone everywhere is always crying about roads, hardly unique to CA.

Finally, for like the umpteenth time, I'm not a Republican.


So, individual #1 says he is successful so pundits say to believe it. Gov. Brown says California is successful but he is a liar because pundits say he lies.

Here are some facts:

Infrastructure and pensions were underfunded because of Gray Davis and Arnold Schwartzenegger. They both left the state in shambles and California is still catching up. Thank goodness they have the good sense to keep Democrats in the majority to keep the state a large world economy and, probably carry the United States through the next Republican depression.

As much as you defend the Republican party, I would say you are a Republican.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 5278
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: California to tax text messages

Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:47 am

trpmb6 wrote:
I think the roll out, the messaging and the optics of this proposal was botched though. Should really have just been a - we're going to raise the taxes and fees we already levy, and that new revenue will be used to bolster these other programs - instead of taxing text messages, which is rather silly to think about.


Yeah it does have a whiff of Grandpa and Grandma trying to keep up with the yoof and their fancy new SMS messages. :rotfl:

Let's just tax them SMS and them Facebooks since those darn kids decided that landlines and fax weren't good enough for them anymore. :old:

Funny to think that these politicians live right next to Silicon Valley...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
User avatar
johnboy
Posts: 3099
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

Re: California to tax text messages

Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:48 am

DL717 wrote:

No one gives a rip. We have President Pence on standby. As long as he doesn’t pardon Trump like Ford pardoned Nixon he’ll be elected in 2020.


You do realize Pence is up to his tits in this investigation also, right?
He was leading the transition team (remember Paul Manafort?).
And the only way Pence would EVER be POTUS is in your dreams....come January 3, 2019 it will all be a shocking reality (seriously, I hope you have friends and family around to keep you from doing anything regrettable).

I don’t expect to hear much out of the rabid Trumpistas in 2019 - especially after Madam Nancy Patricia D’alessando Pelosi becomes the first female POTUS.


PS: you REALLY don’t have a good track record with predictions around these parts. Starting to sound like AA747123 (hint, that ain’t good).
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13424
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: California to tax text messages

Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:14 pm

seb146 wrote:
1. It is just a proposal
2. California is running a budget surplus
3. This is to make up for people not using home phones and has zero to do with "freedom of speech"
4. This would be a tax on a service and not content

More fake outrage from the right over what they don't know. Thank you.


Keep telling yourself this.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
slider
Posts: 7577
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: California to tax text messages

Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:17 pm

seb146 wrote:
slider wrote:
seb146 wrote:

A couple of notes:

Pensions are "underfunded" mostly because public employees who are lucky enough to get pensions are living longer. Also, infrastructure funding is short because people keep moving here from other states. Hell hole that it is. Even though you Republicans keep crying about how awful California is, you all keep moving there. Speaks volumes. Not to mention that California keeps other states like MS and KS and AL afloat. Maybe Republican states should stop state funded health care and state funded food stamps? They are too lazy to get a job, why should California enable their laziness?


Clarifications:
* CA has underfunded pension contributions. Yes, the pension liability is outpacing it, including on account of some of the reasons you cite, but they know that they're underfunded based on those actuarial curves, etc.
* Growth is a problem with infrastructure. TX has the same problem (albeit with higher rate of current growth) with water. the Gov is wanting to allocate rainy day funds to help with this; at least the state HAS such a vehicle for capital funding. CA does not. Roads? Shit, everyone everywhere is always crying about roads, hardly unique to CA.

Finally, for like the umpteenth time, I'm not a Republican.


So, individual #1 says he is successful so pundits say to believe it. Gov. Brown says California is successful but he is a liar because pundits say he lies.

Here are some facts:

Infrastructure and pensions were underfunded because of Gray Davis and Arnold Schwartzenegger. They both left the state in shambles and California is still catching up. Thank goodness they have the good sense to keep Democrats in the majority to keep the state a large world economy and, probably carry the United States through the next Republican depression.

As much as you defend the Republican party, I would say you are a Republican.


I'd challenge you to find ONE instance in the archives of my defending the Republican Party.

I'm a conservative, libertarian, and believe in Constitutional principles. That's about as far away from EITHER party as one can find these days. Both of them suck total balls. And the sooner America realizes that they've been played between the two oligarchs, the better off we'll be. But nice try again.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22335
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: California to tax text messages

Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:37 pm

slider wrote:
seb146 wrote:
slider wrote:

Clarifications:
* CA has underfunded pension contributions. Yes, the pension liability is outpacing it, including on account of some of the reasons you cite, but they know that they're underfunded based on those actuarial curves, etc.
* Growth is a problem with infrastructure. TX has the same problem (albeit with higher rate of current growth) with water. the Gov is wanting to allocate rainy day funds to help with this; at least the state HAS such a vehicle for capital funding. CA does not. Roads? Shit, everyone everywhere is always crying about roads, hardly unique to CA.

Finally, for like the umpteenth time, I'm not a Republican.


So, individual #1 says he is successful so pundits say to believe it. Gov. Brown says California is successful but he is a liar because pundits say he lies.

Here are some facts:

Infrastructure and pensions were underfunded because of Gray Davis and Arnold Schwartzenegger. They both left the state in shambles and California is still catching up. Thank goodness they have the good sense to keep Democrats in the majority to keep the state a large world economy and, probably carry the United States through the next Republican depression.

As much as you defend the Republican party, I would say you are a Republican.


I'd challenge you to find ONE instance in the archives of my defending the Republican Party.

I'm a conservative, libertarian, and believe in Constitutional principles. That's about as far away from EITHER party as one can find these days. Both of them suck total balls. And the sooner America realizes that they've been played between the two oligarchs, the better off we'll be. But nice try again.


Everybody hates the "two sides of the same corrupt coin" system we have. Until we get money completely out of politics, we will continue to see this.

You see Republicans as the better (although still corrupt) alternative, while I see Democrats as the better (although still corrupt) alternative.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22335
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: California to tax text messages

Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:39 pm

I just want to bring everyone beck into check:

This is only a proposal.
This proposal is only for data usage and not content.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18079
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: California to tax text messages

Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:29 pm

slider wrote:
Flaps wrote:
I must be reading a completely different thread than most. It seems to me that most of the hate and derision is coming from liberals. There has actually been little comment from the so called right. In fact I don't see a single hateful comment from the right among the few comments that even come from that direction. A few posts disagreeing with the tax but disagreement hardly equates to hate.


They're great at demagoguery.

Alinsky's rules are kept bedside, to be utilized whenever they can--polarize the enemy, which is how leftists generally view anyone who disagrees with them.

He says after demogoguery-ing about CA...
I don't take responsibility at all

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