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seb146
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:59 am

What is the Republican alternative? IIRC, during the campaign, individual #1 said he had a plan, a great plan, and that plan would give us better health care and cost less. So, where is it? What is the Republican alternative?
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casinterest
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:25 am

seb146 wrote:
What is the Republican alternative? IIRC, during the campaign, individual #1 said he had a plan, a great plan, and that plan would give us better health care and cost less. So, where is it? What is the Republican alternative?


They don't have a good one at this point. They are like a dog chasing cars. They bark loudly, but once they get ahold of it, they just piss on fire hydrants.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:39 am

casinterest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
What is the Republican alternative? IIRC, during the campaign, individual #1 said he had a plan, a great plan, and that plan would give us better health care and cost less. So, where is it? What is the Republican alternative?


They don't have a good one at this point. They are like a dog chasing cars. They bark loudly, but once they get ahold of it, they just piss on fire hydrants.


Remember, the great phony said after the judge ruled, it was a GREAT ruling and we will then have a GREAT healthcare for the American People with the help of the Democrats of course. Does he think we are stupid? That little weasel out then transfers the blame to Who Else? Of course he does think we are stupid obviously. :banghead:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:37 am

AA747123 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
DL717 wrote:
It’s unconstitutional because you can’t force people to buy a product.


In many states, people are required to buy car insurance. So, clearly this is OK from a constitutional point of view (otherwise it would have been stricken down by SCOTUS, right?).



Totally different comparison. The car insurance you are required to purchase is to protect OTHERS if you run into them,.


If you ever fall of a cliff and can´t pay your Hospital bill, you are doing damage to others.

Of course you don´t plan to do that, and you think you will forever be able to pay for your own healthcare, but you don´t plan to run others over or damage their property with your car i guess.

Not having health-insurance is just you loading your risk off to everybody else, and no matter how small that risk is, that is what you do.

If you don´t have health insurance you are basically saying "i don´t need a car, and if i ever need one i can steal it".

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
KICT
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:29 am

Please proceed to repeal Obamacare and kick 20+ million off their health insurance in an election year.
What could possibly go wrong? Dingbats the lot of 'em.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
Chaostheory
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:32 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
Actually, it was the Tories. Conservative MP and Health Minister, Henry Willink that first proposed the NHS and the authored the NHS white paper in 1944. That became legislation in 1946 ('47 Scotland) with cross party support . Labour got into power before the NHS launched properly in '48 and consequently took/milked the credit.
The fact 'it was entirely Labour's doing" is a complete and utter myth.
Labour changed it from a system which had local administration & control to a centralised one: this is what the Tories & Doctors were against, they feared it'd depersonalise the doctor/patient relationship. Ironically, it's spent the last 70 years heading back towards to the locally administered system it was supposed to be.


Whilst there was cross party consensus for the need of a national health (insurance) scheme, as the saying goes actions speak louder than words and it was Bevan and the Labour Gov who had the balls to carry it though.

The localism you speak of is at the very root of the NHS' deficiencies and inefficiencies. The 200 or so CCGs who now control the bulk of the NHS budget are largely made up of primary care practitioners, who let's be fair, beyond the remit of general practice, haven't got a clue.

As an example, the city of Birmingham where my wife works as an emergency medicine consultant recently had 3 CCGs running services. Are the needs of patients in Shirley and Solihull vastly different from those in Harbourne and Edgbaston? Do you honestly think this is an efficient setup? Thankfully my wife wasn't the only one who thought this arrangement was bonkers and NHS England gave their blessing for the CCGs to merge earlier this year.

Apologies to others for digressing.
 
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DL717
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:20 pm

LMP737 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
It’s unconstitutional because you can’t force people to buy a product. .


Really? Every state I've ever lived in you have you were required to have car insurance. If you got caught without it officer friendly wrote you a ticket.


State jurisdiction vs. Federal. This has already been covered above.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
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DL717
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:21 pm

Tugger wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The states have “police power” on its citizens which is not in the Constitution, as decided in past SCOTUS rulings. My state can pass laws governing my behavior or requiring actions by me, this was not a power of the Federal government. If my state wants to require health coverage, I don’t like it but they have that power. If those wanting Federal funding of health care, build a political case for an amendment, like was done before the FDR administration ran roughshod over the process, have Congress write the amendment and have 38 states ratify it.

That is why each states runs its own healthcare process under the the system.
What does Social Security and Medicare and Welfare and other national programs have that national healthcare does not?

Tugg


It’s also why deregulation is needed. Congress also has the power to take those things away, just like they stripped the tax component away from Obamacare.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
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DL717
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:26 pm

seb146 wrote:
What is the Republican alternative? IIRC, during the campaign, individual #1 said he had a plan, a great plan, and that plan would give us better health care and cost less. So, where is it? What is the Republican alternative?


Deregulation to bring down insurance costs while mandating a level of coverage to be provided. Plans would range from inexpensive catastrophic coverage (like liability for your car) to a PPO. Just like any other insurance. In alternate, they still get deregulated and you State mandates a level of coverage.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:43 pm

DL717 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
It’s unconstitutional because you can’t force people to buy a product. .


Really? Every state I've ever lived in you have you were required to have car insurance. If you got caught without it officer friendly wrote you a ticket.


State jurisdiction vs. Federal. This has already been covered above.


That state law would be just as unconstitutional as a federal law would though, wouldn´t it?

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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DL717
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:59 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:

Really? Every state I've ever lived in you have you were required to have car insurance. If you got caught without it officer friendly wrote you a ticket.


State jurisdiction vs. Federal. This has already been covered above.


That state law would be just as unconstitutional as a federal law would though, wouldn´t it?

best regards
Thomas


Nope. If you take the Fed out of the equation, the States become the regulators and would do so as they see fit. They have the authority to tax, just like they do with Telco's. The most important component is setting the Insurance co's free to work across state lines as a single company which increases bargaining power and reduces overhead. Here is how the FCC manages Teclo's in the deregulated era:

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/un ... phone-bill
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:07 pm

DL717 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

State jurisdiction vs. Federal. This has already been covered above.


That state law would be just as unconstitutional as a federal law would though, wouldn´t it?

best regards
Thomas


Nope. If you take the Fed out of the equation, the States become the regulators and would do so as they see fit. They have the authority to tax, just like they do with Telco's. The most important component is setting the Insurance co's free to work across state lines as a single company which increases bargaining power and reduces overhead. Here is how the FCC manages Teclo's in the deregulated era:

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/un ... phone-bill


That still doesn't explain how states get to make laws that violate the US constitution. It wouldn't be a constitution if they could.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
AA747123
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:30 pm

KICT wrote:
Please proceed to repeal Obamacare and kick 20+ million off their health insurance in an election year.
What could possibly go wrong? Dingbats the lot of 'em.



He will still be reelected, he is upholding the constitution!
 
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seb146
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:44 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
What is the Republican alternative? IIRC, during the campaign, individual #1 said he had a plan, a great plan, and that plan would give us better health care and cost less. So, where is it? What is the Republican alternative?


Deregulation to bring down insurance costs while mandating a level of coverage to be provided. Plans would range from inexpensive catastrophic coverage (like liability for your car) to a PPO. Just like any other insurance. In alternate, they still get deregulated and you State mandates a level of coverage.


Sounds like wolves guarding the hen house. It also sounds like and individual mandate. Further, it sounds like zero thought as to how to bring down prices. "Let the market decide" always leads to higher prices.

If I am reading your explanation right, the plan is to force us to buy coverage and let companies compete across state lines more than they do now and nothing more. Is that right?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:45 pm

AA747123 wrote:
KICT wrote:
Please proceed to repeal Obamacare and kick 20+ million off their health insurance in an election year.
What could possibly go wrong? Dingbats the lot of 'em.



He will still be reelected, he is upholding the constitution!


By colluding with a foreign government?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
AA747123
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:54 pm

seb146 wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
KICT wrote:
.



He will still be reelected, he is upholding the constitution!


By colluding with a foreign government?


Collusion? Where is your evidence? Oh thats right there is none.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:14 pm

Healthcare is one of the main causes of bankruptcy and unemployment in the United States. You may be covered, but many lose their jobs if they have to leave work for treatment. My grandma recently visited the hospital and the bill was 200,000. Thankfully, she’s covered, but what about those who aren’t? If you develop a major illness, prepare for utter financial ruin.

There’s something wrong when people can’t even afford to see a primary care doctor for a basic checkup in the wealthiest nation on earth. I’m more convinced each day that the right is mostly comprised of the worst people on earth and those who haven’t evolved past our more primitive, selfish days. They’d be perfect 10,000 years ago due to their distinct inability to grasp the complexities of the modern world. If you’re an asshole, chances are you’re a Republican.

Interesting how many of the “it’s not happening to me, so why should I care?” people sometimes turn to the left once they fall on tough times.
 
KICT
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:20 pm

AA747123 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
AA747123 wrote:


He will still be reelected, he is upholding the constitution!


By colluding with a foreign government?


Collusion? Where is your evidence? Oh thats right there is none.


THE REPORT IS NOT EVEN RELEASED YET.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
AA747123
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:27 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
Healthcare is one of the main causes of bankruptcy and unemployment in the United States. You may be covered, but many lose their jobs if they have to leave work for treatment. My grandma recently visited the hospital and the bill was 200,000. Thankfully, she’s covered, but what about those who aren’t? If you develop a major illness, prepare for utter financial ruin.

There’s something wrong when people can’t even afford to see a primary care doctor for a basic checkup in the wealthiest nation on earth. I’m more convinced each day that the right is mostly comprised of the worst people on earth and those who haven’t evolved past our more primitive, selfish days. They’d be perfect 10,000 years ago due to their distinct inability to grasp the complexities of the modern world. If you’re an asshole, chances are you’re a Republican.

Interesting how many of the “it’s not happening to me, so why should I care?” people sometimes turn to the left once they fall on tough times.



So then we should bankrupt the entire nation instead? By having socialized medicine? Free healthcare for all does not work. Look to the north in Canada. It could take 6 month to get an appointment just for a common cold, and the care isnt that great. Most Canadians drive to the USA for basic healthcare and just pay for it.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:37 pm

AA747123 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Healthcare is one of the main causes of bankruptcy and unemployment in the United States. You may be covered, but many lose their jobs if they have to leave work for treatment. My grandma recently visited the hospital and the bill was 200,000. Thankfully, she’s covered, but what about those who aren’t? If you develop a major illness, prepare for utter financial ruin.

There’s something wrong when people can’t even afford to see a primary care doctor for a basic checkup in the wealthiest nation on earth. I’m more convinced each day that the right is mostly comprised of the worst people on earth and those who haven’t evolved past our more primitive, selfish days. They’d be perfect 10,000 years ago due to their distinct inability to grasp the complexities of the modern world. If you’re an asshole, chances are you’re a Republican.

Interesting how many of the “it’s not happening to me, so why should I care?” people sometimes turn to the left once they fall on tough times.



So then we should bankrupt the entire nation instead? By having socialized medicine? Free healthcare for all does not work. Look to the north in Canada. It could take 6 month to get an appointment just for a common cold, and the care isnt that great. Most Canadians drive to the USA for basic healthcare and just pay for it.


Why do you lie so much?

The healthcare would not be free. Eveyone would pay that has income or a job. . Minute clinic can solve a common cold for you along with rest and relaxation.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:38 pm

AA747123 wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
This is great news for our nation, and returning us to a Great Nation. How can the government require someone to buy a particular product? How can a government force a private insurance company to cover things such as pre-existing conditions? By repealing this Oblummer regulation it will ultimately lower costs for all. This is great news and adds a great feather in the cap of Trump. He is truly MAGA!


How much does your life have to suck for you to not only find happiness but to express what comes across as exuberance and joy in people losing access to affordable healthcare?


Its about being forced to buy a product I dont want to buy. Its about upholding the constitution. Why should I have to pay a higher tax to supplement someone else healthcare? For decades and decades we got by in this country WITHOUT mandatory health insurance. Socialized health care is socialism. Socialism leads to communism.

Look at prison. Fee housing in a gated community, free food for all, free healthcare for all, everyone is treated the same. Its a liberal paradise!


“everyone is treated the same”

Oh, how terrible! Treating everyone respectfully and equally is just awful! I want to be able to treat the help like dirt and my ego isn’t satisfied unless I have someone to look down upon.

You remind me of the popular/wealthy kids in high school that bullied the less fortunate ones. You have some serious problems and growing to do.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:42 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Look to the north in Canada. It could take 6 month to get an appointment just for a common cold, and the care isnt that great. Most Canadians drive to the USA for basic healthcare and just pay for it.


All 7 nations with shorter average wait times than in the US have universal healthcare. Canada makes no. 11 on that list.

They all spend less of their GDP on it that the US.
There are 31 nations in this planet who's healthcare system ranks higher then the US. Again all of them spend less.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 40-6736(18)30994-2/fulltext

You may want to check how many of those have universal/socialized healthcare.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
bagoldex
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:03 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
bagoldex wrote:

How much does your life have to suck for you to not only find happiness but to express what comes across as exuberance and joy in people losing access to affordable healthcare?


Its about being forced to buy a product I dont want to buy. Its about upholding the constitution. Why should I have to pay a higher tax to supplement someone else healthcare? For decades and decades we got by in this country WITHOUT mandatory health insurance. Socialized health care is socialism. Socialism leads to communism.

Look at prison. Fee housing in a gated community, free food for all, free healthcare for all, everyone is treated the same. Its a liberal paradise!


“everyone is treated the same”

Oh, how terrible! Treating everyone respectfully and equally is just awful! I want to be able to treat the help like dirt and my ego isn’t satisfied unless I have someone to look down upon.

You remind me of the popular/wealthy kids in high school that bullied the less fortunate ones. You have some serious problems and growing to do.


This isn’t the behavior of a wealthy or popular/well-liked/respected individual but rather of one perilously close to the edge economically and socially trying to boost their ego in an attempt to feel better about their regrettable situation by creating the illusion of righteous superiority.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:18 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Look to the north in Canada. It could take 6 month to get an appointment just for a common cold, and the care isnt that great. Most Canadians drive to the USA for basic healthcare and just pay for it.


All 7 nations with shorter average wait times than in the US have universal healthcare. Canada makes no. 11 on that list.

They all spend less of their GDP on it that the US.
There are 31 nations in this planet who's healthcare system ranks higher then the US. Again all of them spend less.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 40-6736(18)30994-2/fulltext

You may want to check how many of those have universal/socialized healthcare.

Best regards
Thomas


Looks like Canada is not that great actually.

https://torontosun.com/2017/02/16/canad ... e54e0a056e
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article ... -the-worst
https://www.citynews1130.com/2018/05/23 ... re-report/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes ... 1a721f3e7d

Lengthy treatment delays are the norm in Canada and other single-payer nations, which ration care to keep costs down.


Seems like the problem is RATIONING. Which I think should be illegal. If you need care, it should be available. No nothing "rationing".
 
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Tugger
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:38 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Lengthy treatment delays are the norm in Canada and other single-payer nations, which ration care to keep costs down.


Seems like the problem is RATIONING. Which I think should be illegal. If you need care, it should be available. No nothing "rationing".

Source for that data point?

The article you are quoting from in Forbes is apparently an opinion piece by the president of a decidedly and well known "think tank" that works for the groups that are against universal heathcare etc.

PRI head Sally Pipes, a Canadian residing in the United States, frequently speaks and writes against universal health care. Her bio lists as healthcare topics she had addressed "the false promise of a single-payer system as exists in Canada, pharmaceutical pricing, solving the problem of the uninsured, and strategies for consumer-driven health care." She also authored a 2004 book titled Miracle Cure: How to Solve America’s Health Care Crisis and Why Canada Isn’t the Answer.

On the FOX News show "The O'Reilly Factor" on January 10, 2007, Pipes spoke against California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's proposal to provide all state residents with healthcare. She warned that, "[I]f we provide health insurance, just like we provide welfare and education for illegal aliens, think about people that are illegal in other states. We're going to get a huge influx of illegal immigrants into California. And that's going to make it even more expensive [than the current system]."

On December 26, 2011 Pipes posted the article "Doctors Say Obamacare is No Remedy for US Health Woes," to Forbes. In the article Pipes claims that nearly two-thirds of doctors expect the quality of care in this country to decline. Pipes cites the a recent survey done by the consulting giant Deloitte as evidence to her claims, but does not include the survey in her article. Forbes contributor Rick Ungar responded to Pipes with the article "Koch Brothers Financed 'Research' Institute Steps Up Misleading Obamacare Attacks," in which Unger finds that Pipes incorrectly analyzed the survey results.


https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/P ... _Institute

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:46 pm

Tugger wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Lengthy treatment delays are the norm in Canada and other single-payer nations, which ration care to keep costs down.


Seems like the problem is RATIONING. Which I think should be illegal. If you need care, it should be available. No nothing "rationing".

Source for that data point?

The article you are quoting from in Forbes is apparently an opinion piece by the president of a decidedly and well known "think tank thank that works for the groups that are against universal heathcare etc.

PRI head Sally Pipes, a Canadian residing in the United States, frequently speaks and writes against universal health care. Her bio lists as healthcare topics she had addressed "the false promise of a single-payer system as exists in Canada, pharmaceutical pricing, solving the problem of the uninsured, and strategies for consumer-driven health care." She also authored a 2004 book titled Miracle Cure: How to Solve America’s Health Care Crisis and Why Canada Isn’t the Answer.

On the FOX News show "The O'Reilly Factor" on January 10, 2007, Pipes spoke against California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's proposal to provide all state residents with healthcare. She warned that, "[I]f we provide health insurance, just like we provide welfare and education for illegal aliens, think about people that are illegal in other states. We're going to get a huge influx of illegal immigrants into California. And that's going to make it even more expensive [than the current system]."

On December 26, 2011 Pipes posted the article "Doctors Say Obamacare is No Remedy for US Health Woes," to Forbes. In the article Pipes claims that nearly two-thirds of doctors expect the quality of care in this country to decline. Pipes cites the a recent survey done by the consulting giant Deloitte as evidence to her claims, but does not include the survey in her article. Forbes contributor Rick Ungar responded to Pipes with the article "Koch Brothers Financed 'Research' Institute Steps Up Misleading Obamacare Attacks," in which Unger finds that Pipes incorrectly analyzed the survey results.


https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/P ... _Institute

Tugg


You are attacking the person (Sally Pipes) rather than the argument itself.
Why don't you show us data that Canadians do NOT have long wait times.

Speaking about sources, it is pretty funny that the Huffpost Canada is quoting the Fraser Institute, https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/16923930

FWIW, I do agree with The Lancet article showing Canada in the Top 15 of Health Care Access and Quality, https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)30994-2/fulltext
Unfortunately, the article does not spell out wait times.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:31 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
You are attacking the person (Sally Pipes) rather than the argument itself.

Yes, because when I went to look for info on what you were asserting there was none. I had thought you might have a better source for what you were asserting (via the authors piece).

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:00 pm

Tugger wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
You are attacking the person (Sally Pipes) rather than the argument itself.

Yes, because when I went to look for info on what you were asserting there was none. I had thought you might have a better source for what you were asserting (via the authors piece).

Tugg


I have no better source at the moment. What I got was the result of a 30 second Google search.
The source we seem to both value as accurate (The Lancet") unfortunately does not spell out the wait times.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:08 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
You are attacking the person (Sally Pipes) rather than the argument itself.

Yes, because when I went to look for info on what you were asserting there was none. I had thought you might have a better source for what you were asserting (via the authors piece).

Tugg


I have no better source at the moment. What I got was the result of a 30 second Google search.
The source we seem to both value as accurate (The Lancet") unfortunately does not spell out the wait times.

Agreed. What I am finding is that the two systems are very difficult to compare.

I see that yes wait lists are a real thing in Canada however urgent issues are scheduled promptly. while in the USA it appears to be "gatekeeping" and "economic rationing" delaying access. Many people must first go through one or two or more doctors before something is approved and then some are unable to immediately afford a procedure due to their insurance plans cost sharing requirements. But again, urgent situations get faster attention.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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seb146
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:36 pm

KICT wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

By colluding with a foreign government?


Collusion? Where is your evidence? Oh thats right there is none.


THE REPORT IS NOT EVEN RELEASED YET.


Little nuggets are slipping out and it is showing more and more that there was collusion.
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seb146
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:40 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

Seems like the problem is RATIONING. Which I think should be illegal. If you need care, it should be available. No nothing "rationing".

Source for that data point?

The article you are quoting from in Forbes is apparently an opinion piece by the president of a decidedly and well known "think tank thank that works for the groups that are against universal heathcare etc.

PRI head Sally Pipes, a Canadian residing in the United States, frequently speaks and writes against universal health care. Her bio lists as healthcare topics she had addressed "the false promise of a single-payer system as exists in Canada, pharmaceutical pricing, solving the problem of the uninsured, and strategies for consumer-driven health care." She also authored a 2004 book titled Miracle Cure: How to Solve America’s Health Care Crisis and Why Canada Isn’t the Answer.

On the FOX News show "The O'Reilly Factor" on January 10, 2007, Pipes spoke against California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's proposal to provide all state residents with healthcare. She warned that, "[I]f we provide health insurance, just like we provide welfare and education for illegal aliens, think about people that are illegal in other states. We're going to get a huge influx of illegal immigrants into California. And that's going to make it even more expensive [than the current system]."

On December 26, 2011 Pipes posted the article "Doctors Say Obamacare is No Remedy for US Health Woes," to Forbes. In the article Pipes claims that nearly two-thirds of doctors expect the quality of care in this country to decline. Pipes cites the a recent survey done by the consulting giant Deloitte as evidence to her claims, but does not include the survey in her article. Forbes contributor Rick Ungar responded to Pipes with the article "Koch Brothers Financed 'Research' Institute Steps Up Misleading Obamacare Attacks," in which Unger finds that Pipes incorrectly analyzed the survey results.


https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/P ... _Institute

Tugg


You are attacking the person (Sally Pipes) rather than the argument itself.
Why don't you show us data that Canadians do NOT have long wait times.

Speaking about sources, it is pretty funny that the Huffpost Canada is quoting the Fraser Institute, https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/16923930

FWIW, I do agree with The Lancet article showing Canada in the Top 15 of Health Care Access and Quality, https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)30994-2/fulltext
Unfortunately, the article does not spell out wait times.


"Wait times" is a problem all over. What most Americans experience is they have to wait until they are on death's door and go to urgent care because they can not afford a regular doctor. Even knowing people are healthy, they can not afford insurance to go see a doctor on a regular basis. Once at the doctor, the wait time is long.
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:44 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
What is the Republican alternative? IIRC, during the campaign, individual #1 said he had a plan, a great plan, and that plan would give us better health care and cost less. So, where is it? What is the Republican alternative?


Deregulation to bring down insurance costs while mandating a level of coverage to be provided. Plans would range from inexpensive catastrophic coverage (like liability for your car) to a PPO. Just like any other insurance. In alternate, they still get deregulated and you State mandates a level of coverage.


I wish I could remember the other poster's name who you sound like. I have been thinking about this all day and you sound like the guy that swore up one side and down the other that the only thing this country needed was tort reform. Only tort reform would bring down all prices for all medical. He believed that doctors paying less malpractice insurance would solve everything. But, like your proposal, it would do nothing about anything except give more money to corporations.
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:54 am

tommy1808 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

That state law would be just as unconstitutional as a federal law would though, wouldn´t it?

best regards
Thomas


Nope. If you take the Fed out of the equation, the States become the regulators and would do so as they see fit. They have the authority to tax, just like they do with Telco's. The most important component is setting the Insurance co's free to work across state lines as a single company which increases bargaining power and reduces overhead. Here is how the FCC manages Teclo's in the deregulated era:

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/un ... phone-bill


That still doesn't explain how states get to make laws that violate the US constitution. It wouldn't be a constitution if they could.

Best regards
Thomas


What’s that got to do with deregulation and the ability of a State to tax something? We’re taking about health insurance.
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:58 am

seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
What is the Republican alternative? IIRC, during the campaign, individual #1 said he had a plan, a great plan, and that plan would give us better health care and cost less. So, where is it? What is the Republican alternative?


Deregulation to bring down insurance costs while mandating a level of coverage to be provided. Plans would range from inexpensive catastrophic coverage (like liability for your car) to a PPO. Just like any other insurance. In alternate, they still get deregulated and you State mandates a level of coverage.


Sounds like wolves guarding the hen house. It also sounds like and individual mandate. Further, it sounds like zero thought as to how to bring down prices. "Let the market decide" always leads to higher prices.

If I am reading your explanation right, the plan is to force us to buy coverage and let companies compete across state lines more than they do now and nothing more. Is that right?


Nope. They don’t compete across State lines. Deregulation will allow that and bring down prices. It’s up to your State to decide what coverage requirements are, if any.
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seb146
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:04 am

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Deregulation to bring down insurance costs while mandating a level of coverage to be provided. Plans would range from inexpensive catastrophic coverage (like liability for your car) to a PPO. Just like any other insurance. In alternate, they still get deregulated and you State mandates a level of coverage.


Sounds like wolves guarding the hen house. It also sounds like and individual mandate. Further, it sounds like zero thought as to how to bring down prices. "Let the market decide" always leads to higher prices.

If I am reading your explanation right, the plan is to force us to buy coverage and let companies compete across state lines more than they do now and nothing more. Is that right?


Nope. They don’t compete across State lines. Deregulation will allow that and bring down prices. It’s up to your State to decide what coverage requirements are, if any.


My Humana from California is accepted in Oregon. Two different states and I was able to take my insurance across state lines.

Deregulation would solve zero. Nothing. That would simply allow companies to charge people in Kansas the rates they charge people in California. Prices would not go down. Think about it: why would companies lower prices when left to their own devices?
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:58 am

DL717 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Nope. If you take the Fed out of the equation, the States become the regulators and would do so as they see fit. They have the authority to tax, just like they do with Telco's. The most important component is setting the Insurance co's free to work across state lines as a single company which increases bargaining power and reduces overhead. Here is how the FCC manages Teclo's in the deregulated era:

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/un ... phone-bill


That still doesn't explain how states get to make laws that violate the US constitution. It wouldn't be a constitution if they could.

Best regards
Thomas


What’s that got to do with deregulation and the ability of a State to tax something? We’re taking about health insurance.


lets track back:

- you can not force people to buy something, that is why the ACA is unconstitutional
- states force you to have car insurance, so it can´t be unconstitutional
- but that is state regulations, so the feds don´t count

= States get to violate the constitution. If forcing you to buy car insurance is ok, but forcing you to buy health insurance isn´t, that would be the case.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:36 am

seb146 wrote:
Deregulation would solve zero.


If you set up the right incentive deregulation can do a lot. Problem is if nations deregulate without setting Incentives to move in the desired direction.

hat would simply allow companies to charge people in Kansas the rates they charge people in California.


...and people in Kansas would put their name on that contract why?

Prices would not go down. Think about it: why would companies lower prices when left to their own devices?


As long people can change the insurance the simple fact that they would do so if someone offers better prices does drive prices down. If it doesn´t drive prices down you need prosecutors, not lawmakers, because in that case there is price fixing going on, which i guess is just as illegal in the US as it is here.

Sidenote: most Health insurances here, 90% of all people are in one of those, don´t have any of that. They are not allowed to turn a profit, can´t set the prices they charge or the services they offer with only some very limited wiggle room in both regards. Yet somehow that works for 134 years and counting...... so yeah, it can work to benefit of all, be effective and relatively cheap, while being highly regulated.

On average health insurance in Germany costs 300 USD/Month/insured, purely income based, low co-pays (there are exceptions, but generally no more than 2% of your gross income/1% for chronically illnesses). I am over 40 and the only medical invoices i have seen in my life are surcharges for fillings because i wanted better ceramics, so that was 50 bucks/filling or so ...
Wait time? I went to the doctors office last Friday because of some flu like infection that kept me from work, i called 8 am when they opened and my appointment was 8:45, and left a few minutes past 9 am. During flu season...... and it is not like our system is perfect or even close.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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seb146
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:46 am

tommy1808 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Deregulation would solve zero.


If you set up the right incentive deregulation can do a lot. Problem is if nations deregulate without setting Incentives to move in the desired direction.

hat would simply allow companies to charge people in Kansas the rates they charge people in California.


...and people in Kansas would put their name on that contract why?

Prices would not go down. Think about it: why would companies lower prices when left to their own devices?


As long people can change the insurance the simple fact that they would do so if someone offers better prices does drive prices down. If it doesn´t drive prices down you need prosecutors, not lawmakers, because in that case there is price fixing going on, which i guess is just as illegal in the US as it is here.

Sidenote: most Health insurances here, 90% of all people are in one of those, don´t have any of that. They are not allowed to turn a profit, can´t set the prices they charge or the services they offer with only some very limited wiggle room in both regards. Yet somehow that works for 134 years and counting...... so yeah, it can work to benefit of all, be effective and relatively cheap, while being highly regulated.

On average health insurance in Germany costs 300 USD/Month/insured, purely income based, low co-pays (there are exceptions, but generally no more than 2% of your gross income/1% for chronically illnesses). I am over 40 and the only medical invoices i have seen in my life are surcharges for fillings because i wanted better ceramics, so that was 50 bucks/filling or so ...
Wait time? I went to the doctors office last Friday because of some flu like infection that kept me from work, i called 8 am when they opened and my appointment was 8:45, and left a few minutes past 9 am. During flu season...... and it is not like our system is perfect or even close.

best regards
Thomas


You assume that American corporations do what is best for We The People. American corporations do not give a damn about us. They only care about profits. Nothing else.
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tommy1808
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:00 am

seb146 wrote:
You assume that American corporations do what is best for We The People. American corporations do not give a damn about us. They only care about profits. Nothing else.


No, i would never assume that. But

a) cooperation are not people, they have no will whatsoever.
b) their owners may only be interested in Profits, and their employees in higher wages
c) without customers there won´t be profits, or money to pay wages, no matter how much you charge.
d) there won´t be customers if you are more expensive than the competition
e) hence there won´t be profits unless you bring prices down, unless you can make sure that no one else does have lower prices. Which would be a crime, unless there is only ONE insurance customers can pick....

I think i do recall that some places in the US really only have one available insurance. Why would they bring prices down? They will charge whatever they can without bankrupting too many of their customers.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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seb146
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:55 am

tommy1808 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
You assume that American corporations do what is best for We The People. American corporations do not give a damn about us. They only care about profits. Nothing else.


No, i would never assume that. But

a) cooperation are not people, they have no will whatsoever.
b) their owners may only be interested in Profits, and their employees in higher wages
c) without customers there won´t be profits, or money to pay wages, no matter how much you charge.
d) there won´t be customers if you are more expensive than the competition
e) hence there won´t be profits unless you bring prices down, unless you can make sure that no one else does have lower prices. Which would be a crime, unless there is only ONE insurance customers can pick....

I think i do recall that some places in the US really only have one available insurance. Why would they bring prices down? They will charge whatever they can without bankrupting too many of their customers.

best regards
Thomas


The REPUBLICAN controlled Supreme Court decided that corporations ARE people. Those "people" will charge what they can and still make huge profits. Those "people' will lower their prices just enough to that they can still turn a profit. They don't give a damn if the rest of us go bankrupt.

Those "people" don't need to bring prices down. They simply need to make their shareholders happy.
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seb146
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:57 am

With this Republican celebration of this ACA ruling, can we also take away Dick Cheney's heart? He was given a new heart with pre-existing conditions at 71 because of his health care plan. THAT WE PAY FOR!!!!
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tommy1808
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:29 am

seb146 wrote:
Those "people" will charge what they can .


ding ding ding! We got a winner!

What they "can" charge is the market price +/- a bit. That is all they can charge.

The market price always and invariably goes down when you increase competition, unless there is price fixing. Because they all want customers, and they all want profits.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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DL717
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:09 pm

seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Sounds like wolves guarding the hen house. It also sounds like and individual mandate. Further, it sounds like zero thought as to how to bring down prices. "Let the market decide" always leads to higher prices.

If I am reading your explanation right, the plan is to force us to buy coverage and let companies compete across state lines more than they do now and nothing more. Is that right?


Nope. They don’t compete across State lines. Deregulation will allow that and bring down prices. It’s up to your State to decide what coverage requirements are, if any.


My Humana from California is accepted in Oregon. Two different states and I was able to take my insurance across state lines.

Deregulation would solve zero. Nothing. That would simply allow companies to charge people in Kansas the rates they charge people in California. Prices would not go down. Think about it: why would companies lower prices when left to their own devices?


My health insurance is accepted in anywhere in the world though the method of how things get paid for varies depending on where you are. You’re conflating how one purchases a product with how a person is able to use a product.
Last edited by DL717 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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DL717
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:13 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

That still doesn't explain how states get to make laws that violate the US constitution. It wouldn't be a constitution if they could.

Best regards
Thomas


What’s that got to do with deregulation and the ability of a State to tax something? We’re taking about health insurance.


lets track back:

- you can not force people to buy something, that is why the ACA is unconstitutional
- states force you to have car insurance, so it can´t be unconstitutional
- but that is state regulations, so the feds don´t count

= States get to violate the constitution. If forcing you to buy car insurance is ok, but forcing you to buy health insurance isn´t, that would be the case.

best regards
Thomas


If your State wants to force you to have health insurance, it can do so tomorrow. It will be expensive, but there is nothing stopping them. State sovereignty. Health insurance is a product, not a right so there is no Constitutional conflict.
Last edited by DL717 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:28 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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DL717
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:17 pm

seb146 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Deregulation would solve zero.


If you set up the right incentive deregulation can do a lot. Problem is if nations deregulate without setting Incentives to move in the desired direction.

hat would simply allow companies to charge people in Kansas the rates they charge people in California.


...and people in Kansas would put their name on that contract why?

Prices would not go down. Think about it: why would companies lower prices when left to their own devices?


As long people can change the insurance the simple fact that they would do so if someone offers better prices does drive prices down. If it doesn´t drive prices down you need prosecutors, not lawmakers, because in that case there is price fixing going on, which i guess is just as illegal in the US as it is here.

Sidenote: most Health insurances here, 90% of all people are in one of those, don´t have any of that. They are not allowed to turn a profit, can´t set the prices they charge or the services they offer with only some very limited wiggle room in both regards. Yet somehow that works for 134 years and counting...... so yeah, it can work to benefit of all, be effective and relatively cheap, while being highly regulated.

On average health insurance in Germany costs 300 USD/Month/insured, purely income based, low co-pays (there are exceptions, but generally no more than 2% of your gross income/1% for chronically illnesses). I am over 40 and the only medical invoices i have seen in my life are surcharges for fillings because i wanted better ceramics, so that was 50 bucks/filling or so ...
Wait time? I went to the doctors office last Friday because of some flu like infection that kept me from work, i called 8 am when they opened and my appointment was 8:45, and left a few minutes past 9 am. During flu season...... and it is not like our system is perfect or even close.

best regards
Thomas


You assume that American corporations do what is best for We The People. American corporations do not give a damn about us. They only care about profits. Nothing else.


How are those deregulated air fares working out for you? How about that deregulated phone bill?
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DL717
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:18 pm

seb146 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
You assume that American corporations do what is best for We The People. American corporations do not give a damn about us. They only care about profits. Nothing else.


No, i would never assume that. But

a) cooperation are not people, they have no will whatsoever.
b) their owners may only be interested in Profits, and their employees in higher wages
c) without customers there won´t be profits, or money to pay wages, no matter how much you charge.
d) there won´t be customers if you are more expensive than the competition
e) hence there won´t be profits unless you bring prices down, unless you can make sure that no one else does have lower prices. Which would be a crime, unless there is only ONE insurance customers can pick....

I think i do recall that some places in the US really only have one available insurance. Why would they bring prices down? They will charge whatever they can without bankrupting too many of their customers.

best regards
Thomas


The REPUBLICAN controlled Supreme Court decided that corporations ARE people. Those "people" will charge what they can and still make huge profits. Those "people' will lower their prices just enough to that they can still turn a profit. They don't give a damn if the rest of us go bankrupt.

Those "people" don't need to bring prices down. They simply need to make their shareholders happy.


You’re conflating campaign contributions with the normal course of business. Yes, they will bring prices down or cease to exist. That’s how competition works. Deregulation increases competition, buying power, and bargaining power that will bring down costs. Making health care more affordable.
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tommy1808
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:10 pm

DL717 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

What’s that got to do with deregulation and the ability of a State to tax something? We’re taking about health insurance.


lets track back:

- you can not force people to buy something, that is why the ACA is unconstitutional
- states force you to have car insurance, so it can´t be unconstitutional
- but that is state regulations, so the feds don´t count

= States get to violate the constitution. If forcing you to buy car insurance is ok, but forcing you to buy health insurance isn´t, that would be the case.

best regards
Thomas


If your State wants to force you to have health insurance, it can do so tomorrow. It will be expensive, but there is nothing stopping them. State sovereignty. Health insurance is a product, not a right so there is no Constitutional conflict.


cars and car insurance are products and not rights, which health insurance btw is.
States can not make unconstitutional laws, they can´t even have state constitution violating the US constitution. Supremacy Clause i think that is.....

If the individual mandate is illegal under the US constitution, it is also illegal in all states.

Article 25 Universal Declaration of Human Rights wrote:
1. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and
well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing
and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security
in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or
other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
2. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All
children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social
protection


signed by the United States on 10 December 1948. It is binding international law, you just chose to violate that. Along many others of its provisions, like the right to paid leave, that other countries, even shithole ones, dutiful implement.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
LMP737
Posts: 6027
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:56 pm

DL717 wrote:

State jurisdiction vs. Federal. This has already been covered above.


Federal law takes precedent over state law does it not?

You know what's funny? We all pay for uninsured people in the healthcare system. Then we get to listen to people like you complaining about why should they have to pay for people who don't have health insurance.
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seb146
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Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:21 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

No, i would never assume that. But

a) cooperation are not people, they have no will whatsoever.
b) their owners may only be interested in Profits, and their employees in higher wages
c) without customers there won´t be profits, or money to pay wages, no matter how much you charge.
d) there won´t be customers if you are more expensive than the competition
e) hence there won´t be profits unless you bring prices down, unless you can make sure that no one else does have lower prices. Which would be a crime, unless there is only ONE insurance customers can pick....

I think i do recall that some places in the US really only have one available insurance. Why would they bring prices down? They will charge whatever they can without bankrupting too many of their customers.

best regards
Thomas


The REPUBLICAN controlled Supreme Court decided that corporations ARE people. Those "people" will charge what they can and still make huge profits. Those "people' will lower their prices just enough to that they can still turn a profit. They don't give a damn if the rest of us go bankrupt.

Those "people" don't need to bring prices down. They simply need to make their shareholders happy.


You’re conflating campaign contributions with the normal course of business. Yes, they will bring prices down or cease to exist. That’s how competition works. Deregulation increases competition, buying power, and bargaining power that will bring down costs. Making health care more affordable.


You keep saying that but deregulation in other industries say otherwise. Communications, tech, transportation, food.

Allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines is fine but it will do nothing about lowering the cost of insurance.

As far as corporations being people, Mitt Romney made it a part of his presidential campaign. Republicans have wanted corporate personhood for a very long time and, thanks to stacking the courts, they got it

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... er/554852/
https://www.npr.org/2014/07/28/33528838 ... -evolution
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seb146
Posts: 22287
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Federal judge in Texas rules Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional

Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:34 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

If you set up the right incentive deregulation can do a lot. Problem is if nations deregulate without setting Incentives to move in the desired direction.



...and people in Kansas would put their name on that contract why?



As long people can change the insurance the simple fact that they would do so if someone offers better prices does drive prices down. If it doesn´t drive prices down you need prosecutors, not lawmakers, because in that case there is price fixing going on, which i guess is just as illegal in the US as it is here.

Sidenote: most Health insurances here, 90% of all people are in one of those, don´t have any of that. They are not allowed to turn a profit, can´t set the prices they charge or the services they offer with only some very limited wiggle room in both regards. Yet somehow that works for 134 years and counting...... so yeah, it can work to benefit of all, be effective and relatively cheap, while being highly regulated.

On average health insurance in Germany costs 300 USD/Month/insured, purely income based, low co-pays (there are exceptions, but generally no more than 2% of your gross income/1% for chronically illnesses). I am over 40 and the only medical invoices i have seen in my life are surcharges for fillings because i wanted better ceramics, so that was 50 bucks/filling or so ...
Wait time? I went to the doctors office last Friday because of some flu like infection that kept me from work, i called 8 am when they opened and my appointment was 8:45, and left a few minutes past 9 am. During flu season...... and it is not like our system is perfect or even close.

best regards
Thomas


You assume that American corporations do what is best for We The People. American corporations do not give a damn about us. They only care about profits. Nothing else.


How are those deregulated air fares working out for you? How about that deregulated phone bill?


According to your very own opinions of deregulation, PeopleExpress, Braniff, America West, VajueJet would be the largest carriers and Delta, United, American would all be bankrupt and distant memories. But, here we are. Deregulation does help some companies. But it does zero for the prices we pay.

To be more pointed: air fares and phone bills keep going up. Deregulation is part of that.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos