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petertenthije
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US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:32 pm

The merry-go-round keeps going on.

According to the BBC the secretarybof defence General Mattis will resign in february. Not much details yet, but my guess is this is related to the “defeat” of ISIS.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46640114
 
MaverickM11
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:38 pm

What is that flushing sound that is getting louder? The ship is abandoning the rats...
 
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trpmb6
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:43 pm

we really do need an "Individual #1" thread for you guys
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:52 pm

Sad...Mattis is definitely VERY competent and is one of the very few hires that Individual-1 made that was good.

But you betcha that it's a yuuuge disagreement over Syria strategy and (rumored) pullout from Afghanistan that led to Mattis' exit.
 
bagoldex
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:52 pm

"Secretary of Defense General Mattis is out! I got VERY TIRED of argueing with him about military stuff! I TOLD Mad Dog Mattis I don't NEED to listen to his so-called advice! I know how the military works! I've seen Saving Private Ryan TWICE!!."

@realdonaldtrfan
 
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Dutchy
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:52 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
The ship is abandoning the rats...


:shock: wow, normally it is the other way around, rats abandoning the ship, didn't know it was this bad :old:
 
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scbriml
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:54 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
But you betcha that it's a yuuuge disagreement over Syria strategy and (rumored) pullout from Afghanistan that led to Mattis' exit.


From the horse's mouth...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46640114
In his resignation letter, Gen Mattis described his views on "treating allies with respect" and using "all the tools of American power to provide for the common defence".

"Because you have the right to have a Secretary of Defence whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down," Gen Mattis wrote.
 
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casinterest
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:04 pm

Isn't it amazing how Trump's lack of respect for the opinions of those working for him keeps losing more and more of his "best people"

It seems you have to be a lying,racist, narcissist, with a penchant for misogyny, fraud, and cowardice to be a successful Trump administration official.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:06 pm

bagoldex wrote:
"Secretary of Defense General Mattis is out! I got VERY TIRED of argueing with him about military stuff! I TOLD Mad Dog Mattis I don't NEED to listen to his so-called advice! I know how the military works! I've seen Saving Private Ryan TWICE!!."

@realdonaldtrfan

He also paid off several of the porn stars in Saving Ryan's Privates, like a good evangelical leader would do :rotfl:
 
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ER757
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:24 pm

Surprised it took this long, actually. I am sure he got tired of being blindsided and second guessed.
 
KICT
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:50 pm

Be very worried.
 
bagoldex
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:59 pm

ER757 wrote:
Surprised it took this long, actually. I am sure he got tired of being blindsided and second guessed.


Second guessed? Try ignored.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:12 am

ER757 wrote:
Surprised it took this long, actually. I am sure he got tired of being blindsided and second guessed.

My guess is, and scbriml's post confirms it, that he knows that it's pointless to serve as an adviser if his advice and expertise is ignored.

Mattis is a retired general. He knows about war. But then again, he serves at the pleasure of a guy who knows more about ISIS than the generals, so is it really a surprise? Heck, he even knows more about NATO than Mattis does.

If Mattis lost all dignity, he gained some of it back by telling Trump "OK...it's clear you don't want me here and you know it all. See ya!".
 
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flyingsikh
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:29 am

So much winning that my head is spinning haha.

Markets are in turmoil, trade relationships in flames, allies around world abandoned, healthcare system even more shot, infrastructure continues to crumble, and now a distinguished military man has said he can’t in good faith serve the president cause the president is an idiot.

MAGA!

What an absolute joke this administration is.
 
salttee
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:09 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
(rumored) pullout from Afghanistan that led to Mattis' exit.

The Wall Street Journal says that is fact.
Trump Orders Big Troop Reduction in Afghanistan
About half of the 14,000 U.S. forces will return home in the coming weeks, the start of a total pullout that could take at least many months
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-admi ... 1545341452
 
BN747
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:24 am

flyingsikh wrote:
So much winning that my head is spinning haha.

Markets are in turmoil, trade relationships in flames, allies around world abandoned, healthcare system even more shot, infrastructure continues to crumble, and now a distinguished military man has said he can’t in good faith serve the president cause the president is an idiot.

MAGA!

What an absolute joke this administration is.


You forgot, a leader who watches Junk TV and makes on-the-spot decisions on what is seen that moment....as if he can't think for himself.

All of the above was foretold by Sam Harris on YT Sam Harris BEFORE the 2016 election.
San Harris 14 Minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DGvvd_4acQ

From the clip "people think I overlook the lies by Hilary Clinton, I did not. But I'd vote for Hilary Clinton if she was on life-support with just a week to live, before considering TTrump..."

...now that was before the election - and here we are...

Oh wait...he can't. think for himself. That same brain when 'thinking' ... led to TTrump University scam, TTrump Steaks hoax, successful former Eastern Airlines Shuttle ->Trump Shuttle destroyed, 5-6 Casino bankruptcies (only business on Earth where people give you money for nothing) .....tanked!

Who expected anything other than failure? I saw 'er comin...

BN747
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:10 am

Seems like General Mathis has a pretty good bipartisan reputation, appointed by Trump but trying to stay non-partisan and do what he think is best for the country.

Wonder if he'll receive the "Thanks so much for your service to this country!" treatment or the "He is so incompetent, I can't believe he made General, he should've been kicked out as a 2ndLt!" treatment by Trump


BN747 wrote:
TTrump

Just curious (I tried Google but it didn't give me an answer,) I've seen you post that before. What does "TTrump" mean?
 
Ken777
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:19 am

flyingsikh wrote:
So much winning that my head is spinning haha.

Markets are in turmoil, trade relationships in flames, allies around world abandoned, healthcare system even more shot, infrastructure continues to crumble, and now a distinguished military man has said he can’t in good faith serve the president cause the president is an idiot.

MAGA!

What an absolute joke this administration is.


Mueller cannot go fast enough developing evidence and his report. The House can now call for that report, even if Trump's temporary lapdog at the FBI tries to keep it secret. Trump's major problem is that too many agencies/committees will be getting evidence on a continual basis so there is really no hiding what Trump really wants to hide.

FoI suits will also be hitting the Federal Courts as soon as Mueller finishes.

As for the rest of 2018, Republicans in Congress need to get a backbone and shut Trump down. No more tweets, no more threats, no more insults. And it is time for his attorneys to start working out "Agnew type" negotiations.

As for SecDef Masttis, we can all look forward to General Mattis having a lot of discussions with various House Committees after the Democrats take over.]
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:31 am

KICT wrote:
Be very worried.


This. This is the most significant resignation of this admin hands down. I'm extremely worried this and the syrian pull out is about Turkey. The only thing that has been preventing a Turkish Invasion of northern Syria is the integration of U.S. troops with Kurdish forces. Turkey has branded all Syrian Kurds terrorists who need to be exterminated.

If Turkey Invades Syria, which now looks extremely likely, expect a massive ethnic cleansing campaign. Expect a rise in terrorism in Turkey because Kurdish dissidents will become radicalized if they watch the genocide of other ethnic Kurds take place. This is going to be just as bad as ISIS rule and actually worse than Assad's rule. Assad only cracked down on Kurdish identity, he did not target them specifically as an ethnic group to be eradicated.

Regardless of what country you live in, I implore you to read up on what the Turks did to Afrin, Erdogan's rhetoric about Kurds, and the view of the average Turk on Kurds. Also Turkey's stated intentions to invade the Kurdish held portions of Syria.

Please contact your government representatives and ask them to do whatever they can to dissuade Turkey from invading. We may have an absolute geopolitical disaster about to unfold and a lot of innocent people might die if nothing is done.

Turkish hatred for Kurds far outweighs their common sense when it comes to their decision whether or not to invade. It's also this same hatred that makes me worried that a genocide may take place.

I'm pretty sure Mattis resigned because he wants nothing to do with this geopolitical and strategic failure that is about to take place. The people of the world from the US to Russia need to convince their politicians to step in and put enough pressure on Turkey to not follow through on their stated intentions.


Edit: I should also add that Mattis was the only silver lining of this admin and many of us within the DoD and military are going to be very unhappy seeing him leave, including myself. The Marines practically worship him.
 
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seb146
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:10 am

I wonder how much influence Putin has on the decision to pull out of Afghanistan and Syria?
 
BN747
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:17 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
TTrump

Just curious (I tried Google but it didn't give me an answer,) I've seen you post that before. What does "TTrump" mean?


Most familiar with my rants here know, TTrump is my moniker for 'Traitor Trump'...until I can officially call him that here...like within 30 days...

BN747
 
tommy1808
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:22 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
Sad...Mattis is definitely VERY competent and is one of the very few hires that Individual-1 made that was good.

But you betcha that it's a yuuuge disagreement over Syria strategy and (rumored) pullout from Afghanistan that led to Mattis' exit.


That isn´t the first disagreement. This is just the limit of how much stupid this career general can take.

He told congress that under funding the State Department leads to war. Trump then gutted the State Department.

seb146 wrote:
I wonder how much influence Putin has on the decision to pull out of Afghanistan and Syria?


So many other options..... since this is a Gift to almost every strategic opponent of the US.

So, it could be Putin ordering him to do so. It could be Assad buying him off, or it could be a more generous money laundering agreement for the Iranian Revolutionary guards than he had before...

But this withdrawal isn´t all the big a story by itself.

Trump seems to quite systematically make sure that every potential partner understands the the US can´t be trusted, democracies can´t be trusted and only Dictators make for good partners.

We should remove the Assad Regime, not just for the people in Syria (the areas with US presence show that you know understand how nation building can be done.... funny considering US Special forces had that figured out already during Vietnam, but where basically stopped from winning the war by Generals that didn´t want light infantry to win it) .... but just to send the clear message: you get in bed with Russia in an evil way, you die.

best regards
Thomas
 
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seahawk
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:40 am

The president sets the policies, hope Trump finds somebody who does as he wishes. There is a lot to be done, like leaving NATO, leaving Syria, leaving Afghanistan,... Mattis was never fully behind Trump and the new America Trump is going to bring.
 
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mad99
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:46 am

seb146 wrote:
I wonder how much influence Putin has on the decision to pull out of Afghanistan and Syria?


A lot
The US has armed jihadists trying for a change of government but it hasn’t worked. Russia is helping Syria defeat these groups and are winning so now the US says sorry PKK you go it alone.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:57 am

And so is going the last level-headed person, independent thinker, to leave. In the White House there will be only yes-saying people, quite dangerous with this president. We might see some truly crazy things coming in the next few months.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:59 am

seahawk wrote:
here is a lot to be done, like leaving NATO


That will have a huge impact on your native Germany and will draw the EU more closely together. You want that?
 
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seahawk
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:47 am

Dutchy wrote:
seahawk wrote:
here is a lot to be done, like leaving NATO


That will have a huge impact on your native Germany and will draw the EU more closely together. You want that?


Long overdue that Germany accepts that the world is changing and you can not bet on other countries.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:32 am

mad99 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I wonder how much influence Putin has on the decision to pull out of Afghanistan and Syria?


A lot
The US has armed jihadists trying for a change of government but it hasn’t worked. Russia is helping Syria defeat these groups and are winning so now the US says sorry PKK you go it alone.


Are you Turkish? This is the sort of thing I was talking about, Turks hate Kurds so much they will lump them all into the same "terrorist" category so they don't have to feel bad when they invade and kill innocents. Genocides happen when entire ethnic groups are viewed as vermin.

Bad idea Turkey. This is why the actual Kurdish terrorists exist. Stop it. Just don't do it. It will make extremism worse.
 
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mad99
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:57 am

No i’m not
The idea that Kurdish groups in Syria are not linked to PKK is ridiculous. When the US destroyed Raqqa, killing everyone, what flag did the ‘Syrian Democratic Forces ioi fly? PKK!

Now the US has left them, thanks for playing! The Russians/Syrians will negotiate with them, the Turks will kill them all
 
bennett123
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:00 am

Master stroke by Putin.

The world finds out that the US can not be trusted.

Huge numbers of refugees flee, based on past evidence many into Europe. This boosts hard line leaders across Europe.

It hits the European members of NATO which now has less time to worry about Russia, (also see point one).

The Kurds are strongly resistant to ISIS, Turkey somewhat less so.

Also think of the impact of a renewed ISIS on Israel.
 
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mad99
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:26 am

The reason the people leave is due to the fighting. Now that Syria is winning people are returning. I don’t know much about the Kurds but the US backing them is strange when you consider Turkey’s love affair with them (NATO’s second largest army)

The Kurds are US’s spotters for bombing take away the bombing part and ISIS - Nusra will take them on.

Regarding Israel I don’t think ISIS is any more of a threat then PLO
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:38 am

mad99 wrote:
The reason the people leave is due to the fighting. Now that Syria is winning people are returning. I don’t know much about the Kurds but the US backing them is strange when you consider Turkey’s love affair with them (NATO’s second largest army)

The Kurds are US’s spotters for bombing take away the bombing part and ISIS - Nusra will take them on.

Regarding Israel I don’t think ISIS is any more of a threat then PLO


If Turkey Invades Northern Syria there will be a new refugee crisis. Learn about the Kurds. They've been the target of genocidal behavior for a long time.
 
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mad99
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:50 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Olive_Branch

Turkey is in Syria, see above, together with their jihadist friends in Idlib

As one poster here stated, the Kurds are chopped liver
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:02 am

mad99 wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Olive_Branch

Turkey is in Syria, see above, together with their jihadist friends in Idlib

As one poster here stated, the Kurds are chopped liver


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_r ... _in_Turkey

Some background on why PKK even exists.

The European Court of Human Rights and many other international human rights organizations have condemned Turkey for the thousands of human rights abuses.[23][24] Many judgments are related to systematic executions of Kurdish civilians,[25] torturing,[26] forced displacements,[27] destroyed villages,[28][29][30] arbitrary arrests,[31] murdered and disappeared Kurdish journalists, activists and politicians.[32]


Turkey is doing everything they can to create radicalized Kurds it seems.

The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra’ad Al Hussein said of the capture: "In the city of Afrin, which was captured by Turkish forces yesterday, scores of civilians have been killed and injured due to airstrikes, ground-based strikes, and explosive hazards, and thousands have been displaced."[231]

After the capture of Afrin, which had been deserted by most of its residents, Turkish-backed fighters then began stealing vehicles and goods, looting the homes, businesses, and political and military sites.


From operation olive branch page. Olive branch my ass.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_genocide

Remember when Saddam's Iraq launched an actual genocide campaign against the Kurds? Wasn't too long ago.
 
ltbewr
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:17 am

Mattis was full into supporting Trump, he chanted at Trump campaign stops 'Lock Her Up' in bashing Hillary Clinton and likely anti-Islamic, anti-immigrant, anti-Russia and a war monger. He left likely as Trump won't give him the power and influence he craved, that Trump ignored or never consulted with him seriously as to military policy. He also could be involved with some of the campaign corruption and bailing out before he gets caught up in it.

While I have no love for this guy, I am afraid that Trump is destroying the top management of our government which is needed no matter who is President. He has failed to make 100's of critical appointments and too many of the ones he made were to destroy many agencies to benefit in the short run corporations and the rich. By so few appointments and chasing out too many he needs to operate the country in good order, he is consolidating too much power as President in himself and that is very dangerous to the USA and the world.

While I would love to see the USA's military finally bail out of Syria and Afghanistan it will cause a number of bad affects. By leaving what is a unwinnable war it will create a vacuum that will be taken up by the enemies we were trying to control and return us to a very dark time like when we vacated Vietnam with serious affects on millions. Our withdrawal will trigger in Syria another mass exodus, this time of Kurds to Europe as Turkey goes after them like with the Armenians about 100 years ago. ISIS may be held in check, hopefully by Iran and Russia, but Russia got a big fat win in Syria and influence in the middle east, ironically a reverse of what was a major policy during the 'Cold War'.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:25 am

ltbewr wrote:
Mattis was full into supporting Trump, he chanted at Trump campaign stops 'Lock Her Up' in bashing Hillary Clinton and likely anti-Islamic, anti-immigrant, anti-Russia and a war monger. He left likely as Trump won't give him the power and influence he craved, that Trump ignored or never consulted with him seriously as to military policy. He also could be involved with some of the campaign corruption and bailing out before he gets caught up in it.

While I have no love for this guy, I am afraid that Trump is destroying the top management of our government which is needed no matter who is President. He has failed to make 100's of critical appointments and too many of the ones he made were to destroy many agencies to benefit in the short run corporations and the rich. By so few appointments and chasing out too many he needs to operate the country in good order, he is consolidating too much power as President in himself and that is very dangerous to the USA and the world.

While I would love to see the USA's military finally bail out of Syria and Afghanistan it will cause a number of bad affects. By leaving what is a unwinnable war it will create a vacuum that will be taken up by the enemies we were trying to control and return us to a very dark time like when we vacated Vietnam with serious affects on millions. Our withdrawal will trigger in Syria another mass exodus, this time of Kurds to Europe as Turkey goes after them like with the Armenians about 100 years ago. ISIS may be held in check, hopefully by Iran and Russia, but Russia got a big fat win in Syria and influence in the middle east, ironically a reverse of what was a major policy during the 'Cold War'.


I think you're talking about Kelly, not Mattis. Mattis keeps his head down and avoids politics except to issue dire warnings as he has now
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:26 pm

seahawk wrote:
There is a lot to be done, like leaving NATO,


I am willing to bet that if anyone quits NATO, it will be Germany... forming some sort of Russo-Franco-German axis (of Evil) in the next step.
19th century all over again.
 
jupiter2
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:34 pm

These troop withdrawals will be how Trump is hoping to get his $5 billion to build his wall. The money saved from not having all these personnel in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan is what he is looking at.

The damage this idiot is doing not only to the U.S.A. but throughout the world will take decades to resolve, but it is highly unlikely the U.S. will ever have the influence in world affairs that it has had, the damage he has caused, the mistrust he has instilled in what were almost unbreakable defence partners has been astonishing. This move will only empower the likes of isis to increase their activities, they'll see U.S as weak and will step up their campaigns. The poor Kurds will be the first to feel the brunt of this idiotic withdrawal, unless the other European NATO countries can dissuade Erodgan, not likely, he also has his pal in Moscow and is out to head hunt Kurds.

The next President had better be a true states person, they are going to have to rebuild what has been demolished in 2 short years for America to try to regain its statue on the world stage, playing catch up with mob boss Putin and they truly authoritarian Xi Jinping. Trying to do this with a most likely failing economy and an underlying level of resentment among the population.
 
tommy1808
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:47 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
seahawk wrote:
There is a lot to be done, like leaving NATO,


I am willing to bet that if anyone quits NATO, it will be Germany... .


haha.... in the real world the German Airforce has just concluded the LVG2018 exercise, and the scenario was a 110% "Russian Hybrid Warfare during an Attack on the Baltics" scenario, in every conceivable detail. No strategic warning, media manipulation to rail public opinion (with protesters and all), "Terrorstrikes" nearby, "little green men" assaulting the airbase and trying to disable it and having Tornados lifting off armed for A2G less than 60 minutes after the order for Interdiction strikes......

For a nation entertaining any notion if leaving NATO we are awfully focused on training to blunt a Russian attack. If you keep track of exercises and what they train, it is quite obvious that NATO as a whole is spooling up territorial defense and this was the most on the nose "we know what to expect and we are ready to deal with you" exercise any NATO Member has done in almost 30 years. I don´t hear much about how value exercises from the Czech Republic.....

best regards
Thomas
 
ltbewr
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:31 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Mattis was full into supporting Trump, he chanted at Trump campaign stops 'Lock Her Up' in bashing Hillary Clinton and likely anti-Islamic, anti-immigrant, anti-Russia and a war monger. He left likely as Trump won't give him the power and influence he craved, that Trump ignored or never consulted with him seriously as to military policy. He also could be involved with some of the campaign corruption and bailing out before he gets caught up in it.

As pointed out by others, I confused Mattis with Gen. Flynn as to the 'lock her up' calls. I still stand on the rest of the paragraph and my earlier post I didn't included here.
Still, Mattis has a bad history of for example in the Iraq war, of causing the bombing of civilian targets including a wedding party. Anyone that would work with Trump is a fool or as many found out the hard way, hanging with a criminal that won't listen to them, and will end up have to give testimony to Congressional committees when the Democrats take control in January.
 
alfa164
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:28 pm

Jouhou wrote:
I should also add that Mattis was the only silver lining of this admin and many of us within the DoD and military are going to be very unhappy seeing him leave, including myself. The Marines practically worship him.


Dutchy wrote:
And so is going the last level-headed person, independent thinker, to leave. In the White House there will be only yes-saying people, quite dangerous with this president. We might see some truly crazy things coming in the next few months.


When Mattis, along with some other like-minded, seriously-intelligent, and level-headed advisors and cabinet members like Kelly, McMaster, McGahn, Cohn, Dina Powell, and, to a lesser extent, Tillerson and Haley) were inducted, some friends - mostly Republican, by the way - referred to them as "The Committee to Save America". It was an obvious reference to hopes that their combined abilities could restrain Trump from his most impulsive - and dangerous - moves.

That seems to have been proved futile. With these voices sidelined, the latest tantrums, directives, and policies we can attribute to Trump show an exponentially growing danger: to our economy; to the future of our environment; to refugees; to our allies, the Kurds; to the hope for stability in Afghanistan; and, in general, to the world as a whole - and, in the end, to the USA. To all of us.
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8717
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:49 pm

Seems the so called deal between Tillerson, Kelly, and Mattis came true: Tillerson left, Kelly announced his departure, and now Mattis is leaving.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:12 pm

I'm not trying to paint anyone in a corner (I'm really not,) but what are some of yall's opinions on the drawdowns (assuming they actually happen?) I assume many would be cheering the drawdowns, but it doesn't seem that way

I know Mattis disagreed with Trump with more than just that (NATO is a big one) but I thought the drawdowns would be more welcome news
 
Strato2
Posts: 632
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:20 pm

Last adult leaves the room.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 14155
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:58 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
I'm not trying to paint anyone in a corner (I'm really not,) but what are some of yall's opinions on the drawdowns (assuming they actually happen?) I assume many would be cheering the drawdowns, but it doesn't seem that way

I know Mattis disagreed with Trump with more than just that (NATO is a big one) but I thought the drawdowns would be more welcome news


The question you have to ask is the following.

Do you think US interests are best served by leaving Russia and Iran alone on Syria?
Do you think the Afghans can contain the Taliban without the US? Do you think Russia and Iran will step in there?

US interests are best served by US presence in places where democracy and governments are currently not stable.

On a personal basis, I am sure that the loved ones of the deployed forces will be happy to have them home, but what good will it be if we have to send other's loved ones to clean up the mess later?

Remember what happened when we left Iraq?
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3617
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:59 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
I'm not trying to paint anyone in a corner (I'm really not,) but what are some of yall's opinions on the drawdowns (assuming they actually happen?) I assume many would be cheering the drawdowns, but it doesn't seem that way


Personally, while I'm not totally against drawdowns (b/c, well, we already spent too much on defense budget as-is), I also realized the consequence of one (i.e. those poor Kurds, well, they're done...and withdrawal from Afghanistan would mean Taliban-esque group taking it back over in no time), unlike Individual-1 who withdraw troops just to claim personal glory, let others (i.e. Kurds) to literally die, and obviously, only do it out of impulse. Oh, and those soldiers coming back? Don't expect Individual-1 to really care about them one iota. In another word, I wouldn't be "cheering" about it. It's Vietnam all over again anyway.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:44 pm

casinterest wrote:



zakuivcustom wrote:


Yeah don't get me wrong, I get it, but I've mostly seen these as more right-wing arguments for why we are still there.

I hate shoving people in pure right-wing or left-wing camps and am welcome to some opinions that are some sort of gray area, but I tend to see more posts advocating withdrawal* and more posts against Trump*

Again, not trying to pin anyone into a corner, I really don't care what yall think, I just find this thread interesting. I know there are plenty of avenues where you're against the wars, against Trump, for Matthis for the most part, and against some parts of this withdrawal. Just thought I'd see more... happiness over the (potential) drawdowns?

* Not saying you guys or most/all/some of your posts fit this...
 
LittleFokker
Posts: 1486
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Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:15 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
casinterest wrote:



zakuivcustom wrote:


Yeah don't get me wrong, I get it, but I've mostly seen these as more right-wing arguments for why we are still there.

I hate shoving people in pure right-wing or left-wing camps and am welcome to some opinions that are some sort of gray area, but I tend to see more posts advocating withdrawal* and more posts against Trump*

Again, not trying to pin anyone into a corner, I really don't care what yall think, I just find this thread interesting. I know there are plenty of avenues where you're against the wars, against Trump, for Matthis for the most part, and against some parts of this withdrawal. Just thought I'd see more... happiness over the (potential) drawdowns?

* Not saying you guys or most/all/some of your posts fit this...


I hate that we were in Syria at all, I hate that we went to Iraq (Afghanistan was somewhat defensible though executed poorly) both times, I hate that we were in Korea and Vietnam. It's not popular to say, but America's war record since WWII has been really disappointing and pathetic. We haven't really "won" a war since then - all we've done is accomplish a minor goal while making things worse and destabilizing shit overall, all at the expense of the betterment of our own society. I would love to see us responsibly exit the regions, though A) The way Trump is doing it sure as hell ain't responsible (Twitter declaration; no consultation with Generals or other relevant leaders), and B) One could argue there isn't a way to responsibly exit these areas with all the damage and chaos we've created.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 12690
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:58 pm

casinterest wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
I'm not trying to paint anyone in a corner (I'm really not,) but what are some of yall's opinions on the drawdowns (assuming they actually happen?) I assume many would be cheering the drawdowns, but it doesn't seem that way

I know Mattis disagreed with Trump with more than just that (NATO is a big one) but I thought the drawdowns would be more welcome news


The question you have to ask is the following.

Do you think US interests are best served by leaving Russia and Iran alone on Syria?
Do you think the Afghans can contain the Taliban without the US? Do you think Russia and Iran will step in there?

US interests are best served by US presence in places where democracy and governments are currently not stable.

On a personal basis, I am sure that the loved ones of the deployed forces will be happy to have them home, but what good will it be if we have to send other's loved ones to clean up the mess later?

Remember what happened when we left Iraq?


You can add relaxing the sanctions on Russia on that list.

It's all in the interest of Putin's Russia, not in America's interest. Like relaxing tensions with North Korea (Putin's interest), cutting Iran off of the western world and thus pushing it towards Russia/China. And so there are more things in foreign policies. It is way too obvious.
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: US SecDef Mattis to resign in february.

Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:57 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
I'm not trying to paint anyone in a corner (I'm really not,) but what are some of yall's opinions on the drawdowns (assuming they actually happen?) I assume many would be cheering the drawdowns, but it doesn't seem that way

I know Mattis disagreed with Trump with more than just that (NATO is a big one) but I thought the drawdowns would be more welcome news


First, let me give you a tad bit of credit for biting your tongue while trudging thru this thread. We know you will never be a TTrumperHater and you’re crazy Ming across a bit more flexi-right leaning.

Addressing your question, a second mole thought of ‘well all the ‘Bring Home the Troops’ corp would explode in elation. In truth, a smarter side of you already knows the answer.

That being, to cheer on a dangerous military campaign change WITHOUT any previous thought, discussions, notifying the Pentagon would be tantamount to pouring gasoline on. Raging dumpster fire. Everyone knows the s act was never of a sound mind. That is disturbing to any American keenly aware of his nation’s global activity...of whom most participants here are. What’s next? He dropping a duece in his golden toilet ...muses for a split-second, picks up the phone and yells ‘General! Knock out every major city Iran, right now!’....that brain dead thought is equivalent of his Syria brain fart.

But you knew that,....right?

BN747

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