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VTKillarney
Posts: 1954
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:33 pm

casinterest wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
I can't believe Pelosi actually tried to out-troll Trump with her SOTU stunt. I hope she enjoys the tarmac at Andrews AFB. If the government can't ensure security for the U.S. President inside the Capitol building in Washington D.C., it for sure can't ensure security for the Speaker of the House in a war-zone.


But Bone Spurs went to Iraq. Interesting double standard for the man who is head of DHS.

During a government shutdown? Isn’t that what Pelosi was concerned about?
 
Pyrex
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:08 pm

casinterest wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
I can't believe Pelosi actually tried to out-troll Trump with her SOTU stunt. I hope she enjoys the tarmac at Andrews AFB. If the government can't ensure security for the U.S. President inside the Capitol building in Washington D.C., it for sure can't ensure security for the Speaker of the House in a war-zone.


But Bone Spurs went to Iraq. Interesting double standard for the man who is head of DHS.


That was before Pelosi pulled her ridiculous, petty stunt with the SOTU. If she hadn't pulled that crap, she probably would be in a plane to Brussels by now.
 
winginit
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:29 pm

Noteworthy that while the government remains shutdown, Melania is using a government plane to go down to Mar-a-lago today. Must be very important FLOTUS business.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:40 pm

winginit wrote:
Noteworthy that while the government remains shutdown, Melania is using a government plane to go down to Mar-a-lago today. Must be very important FLOTUS business.

I don’t think that Melania needs to stick around and negotiate.
 
winginit
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:44 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
winginit wrote:
Noteworthy that while the government remains shutdown, Melania is using a government plane to go down to Mar-a-lago today. Must be very important FLOTUS business.

I don’t think that Melania needs to stick around and negotiate.


Ah - best she bring her unpaid security detail down to Palm Beach then for some relaxation on the taxpayers dime eh? Great optics!
 
winginit
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:31 am

Legitimate question here for those across the political spectrum:

If Mitch McConnell were to bring the House passed bills to re-open the government (no wall money) to the Senate floor, which at present he refuses to do - would they pass? Would they pass if they re-opened all of the departments except the Department of Homeland Security that's tied to the wall? I'm starting to strongly suspect they would.
 
ltbewr
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:30 am

Apparently the Sec. of State or other Trump Administration officials will not attend the Davos Economic Forum on the grounds of 'the shutdown'. Trump wasn't planning to go anyway also citing the 'shutdown' but more likely as was be as wanted as the plague there. He also knows he can be seen anywhere close to Putin or other Russian leaders due to the scrutiny on him.

As to the cancellation of the trip to Afghanistan by Speaker Pelosi nd a number of other members of the Senate and House, mainly Democrats, while it would be no vacation and actually somewhat useful, it would be more of a photo op for politicians to kiss up to the military. Personally I think all members of the House, Senate and Trump should stay in DC and working until the stalemate is done and government workers get their paychecks.

So now what will happen next ? We are further into uncharted waters and with no compass.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:03 am

ltbewr wrote:
Personally I think all members of the House, Senate and Trump should stay in DC and working until the stalemate is done and government workers get their paychecks.


Fully agreed.

All these clowns (Senate, Congress, President) should not be allowed to go anywhere or do anything until this mess they created is sorted. Hundreds of thousands of American families are suffering because of their childish political tantrums.
 
alfa164
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:03 am

ltbewr wrote:
So now what will happen next ? We are further into uncharted waters and with no compass.


Unfortunately, you are right. Trump had agreed to a deal with the Democrats - then backed out when the far-right Trump Whisperers (Limbaugh and the merry crowd of provocateurs at Faux News) started ragging on him. He is too insecure to go against their wishes, and the Democrats have no incentive to back down - especially when he has crossed them once already, and as long as the American people continue to blame Trump and the GOP (as they are doing, still increasingly) for the shutdown.

The end will probably only come when enough Congressional Republicans and Democrats come together with a government funding proposal - minus his vanity wall - and pass it by a veto-proof majority. That may not be as hard as it first seems; with 20 Republican Senators up for reelection in 2020 - many of them in "purple" states - the pressure will build as time goes on. And the members of the House will feel similar pressure, running in a year when the White House is on the ballot again, and with barely 35% of the voters saying they would even consider voting for Trump.

The real irony, then, is that regardless of the outcome now, the wall will probably never be built. It will take years of litigation, and Trump will be gone in two years - if not sooner - and undoubtedly replaced by a Democrat (which is almost inevitable, seeing the cyclical nature of US politics whenever an extremely polarizing figure comes into office). He is rapidly alienating everyone except his most vocal and rabid base - and even that base is diminishing.
 
winginit
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:48 am

alfa164 wrote:
The end will probably only come when enough Congressional Republicans and Democrats come together with a government funding proposal - minus his vanity wall - and pass it by a veto-proof majority. That may not be as hard as it first seems; with 20 Republican Senators up for reelection in 2020 - many of them in "purple" states - the pressure will build as time goes on. And the members of the House will feel similar pressure, running in a year when the White House is on the ballot again, and with barely 35% of the voters saying they would even consider voting for Trump.


I think that's one of three outcomes:

1. What you've described above
2. Trump declares a State of Emergency to build his wall, is able to divert funds from Defense, and declares an end to the shutdown allowing the House bills to go through the Senate and eventually to his desk. There's a legal challenge from the left and the funds are never actually allocated and the wall never actually built.
3. TSA officers walk off the job at a major airport - shutting it down completely. Trump and/or the Republican Senators cave and re-open the government without wall funding.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:51 am

winginit wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
The end will probably only come when enough Congressional Republicans and Democrats come together with a government funding proposal - minus his vanity wall - and pass it by a veto-proof majority. That may not be as hard as it first seems; with 20 Republican Senators up for reelection in 2020 - many of them in "purple" states - the pressure will build as time goes on. And the members of the House will feel similar pressure, running in a year when the White House is on the ballot again, and with barely 35% of the voters saying they would even consider voting for Trump.


I think that's one of three outcomes:

1. What you've described above
2. Trump declares a State of Emergency to build his wall, is able to divert funds from Defense, and declares an end to the shutdown allowing the House bills to go through the Senate and eventually to his desk. There's a legal challenge from the left and the funds are never actually allocated and the wall never actually built.
3. TSA officers walk off the job at a major airport - shutting it down completely. Trump and/or the Republican Senators cave and re-open the government without wall funding.


Outcome #3. Revised: Historical Context
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professio ... tion_(1968)#August_1981_strike

Ronald Reagan declared the PATCO strike a "peril to national safety" and ordered them back to work under the terms of the Taft–Hartley Act. Only 1,300 of the nearly 13,000 controllers returned to work

On August 5, 1981 following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, Reagan fired the 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored the order, and banned them from federal service for life. In the wake of the strike and mass firings, the FAA was faced with the task of hiring and training enough controllers to replace those that had been fired, a hard problem to fix as, at the time, it took three years in normal conditions to train a new controller. They were replaced initially with non-participating controllers, supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, and in some cases by controllers transferred temporarily from other facilities. Some military controllers were also used until replacements could be trained.

So... perhaps Trump fires xxxxx TSA employees who have walked off the job, yadda yadda yadda, and replaces them, temporarily, with supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, and in some cases by TSA agents transferred temporarily from other facilities. Some military police to be used until replacements can be trained.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:01 am

casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
winginit wrote:
She simply stated there were security concerns,

That would be the lie. As confirmed by DHS.


Security Concerns are not owned by DHS


I assume that is the same DHS going all "by your orders comrade Trump" and calls fences walls now?
VTKillarny was so kind to provide a link that shows that the DHS lies when the President wants it in another thread after all.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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Aesma
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:30 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
winginit wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
The end will probably only come when enough Congressional Republicans and Democrats come together with a government funding proposal - minus his vanity wall - and pass it by a veto-proof majority. That may not be as hard as it first seems; with 20 Republican Senators up for reelection in 2020 - many of them in "purple" states - the pressure will build as time goes on. And the members of the House will feel similar pressure, running in a year when the White House is on the ballot again, and with barely 35% of the voters saying they would even consider voting for Trump.


I think that's one of three outcomes:

1. What you've described above
2. Trump declares a State of Emergency to build his wall, is able to divert funds from Defense, and declares an end to the shutdown allowing the House bills to go through the Senate and eventually to his desk. There's a legal challenge from the left and the funds are never actually allocated and the wall never actually built.
3. TSA officers walk off the job at a major airport - shutting it down completely. Trump and/or the Republican Senators cave and re-open the government without wall funding.


Outcome #3. Revised: Historical Context
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professio ... tion_(1968)#August_1981_strike

Ronald Reagan declared the PATCO strike a "peril to national safety" and ordered them back to work under the terms of the Taft–Hartley Act. Only 1,300 of the nearly 13,000 controllers returned to work

On August 5, 1981 following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, Reagan fired the 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored the order, and banned them from federal service for life. In the wake of the strike and mass firings, the FAA was faced with the task of hiring and training enough controllers to replace those that had been fired, a hard problem to fix as, at the time, it took three years in normal conditions to train a new controller. They were replaced initially with non-participating controllers, supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, and in some cases by controllers transferred temporarily from other facilities. Some military controllers were also used until replacements could be trained.

So... perhaps Trump fires xxxxx TSA employees who have walked off the job, yadda yadda yadda, and replaces them, temporarily, with supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, and in some cases by TSA agents transferred temporarily from other facilities. Some military police to be used until replacements can be trained.


So is slavery back in the US ? Forced to work without pay. Without even food and shelter, in fact ?
 
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casinterest
Topic Author
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:16 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
winginit wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
The end will probably only come when enough Congressional Republicans and Democrats come together with a government funding proposal - minus his vanity wall - and pass it by a veto-proof majority. That may not be as hard as it first seems; with 20 Republican Senators up for reelection in 2020 - many of them in "purple" states - the pressure will build as time goes on. And the members of the House will feel similar pressure, running in a year when the White House is on the ballot again, and with barely 35% of the voters saying they would even consider voting for Trump.


I think that's one of three outcomes:

1. What you've described above
2. Trump declares a State of Emergency to build his wall, is able to divert funds from Defense, and declares an end to the shutdown allowing the House bills to go through the Senate and eventually to his desk. There's a legal challenge from the left and the funds are never actually allocated and the wall never actually built.
3. TSA officers walk off the job at a major airport - shutting it down completely. Trump and/or the Republican Senators cave and re-open the government without wall funding.


Outcome #3. Revised: Historical Context
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professio ... tion_(1968)#August_1981_strike

Ronald Reagan declared the PATCO strike a "peril to national safety" and ordered them back to work under the terms of the Taft–Hartley Act. Only 1,300 of the nearly 13,000 controllers returned to work

On August 5, 1981 following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, Reagan fired the 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored the order, and banned them from federal service for life. In the wake of the strike and mass firings, the FAA was faced with the task of hiring and training enough controllers to replace those that had been fired, a hard problem to fix as, at the time, it took three years in normal conditions to train a new controller. They were replaced initially with non-participating controllers, supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, and in some cases by controllers transferred temporarily from other facilities. Some military controllers were also used until replacements could be trained.

So... perhaps Trump fires xxxxx TSA employees who have walked off the job, yadda yadda yadda, and replaces them, temporarily, with supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, and in some cases by TSA agents transferred temporarily from other facilities. Some military police to be used until replacements can be trained.


Either way in this case, Trump started the whole mess, and will cement his place in history as the worst president ever should #3 occur with a Reagan firing. These ATC controllers are being forced to work without pay. all because of a lying racist.
 
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casinterest
Topic Author
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:58 pm

Everyone look. The racist, lies continue on the Trump Twitter meltdown account.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 6138807296
Do people looking to jump the border advertise themselves in large caravans? or maybe these are asylum seekers.
Trump is unhinged and a danger to intelligent life.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 8088082432
I'll throw the below link from 2014 up to basically say these folks have been praying or maybe shivering at the border for years.

https://www.politifact.com/texas/articl ... -confirme/
 
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casinterest
Topic Author
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:23 pm

Trump's policy effects on the economy may be about to sink him. Consumer sentiment is going down.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/economy/ ... index.html

"The loss was due to a host of issues including the partial government shutdown, the impact of tariffs, instabilities in financial markets, the global slowdown, and the lack of clarity about monetary policies," Michigan's analysts wrote. "Aside from the direct economic impact from these various issues on the economy, the indirect effect meant that half of all consumers believed that these events would have a negative impact on Trump's ability to focus on economic growth.""
 
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seb146
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:08 pm

The government could be reopened by an act of Congress alone. If it were not for one, lone Republican who refuses to discuss it

https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/ ... government
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sh ... baf541dbbd

Oh, and look: He even shifts the blame to Pelosi

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politi ... 29400.html

McConnell refuses to open the government or even give the House bill a vote on the floor but it is someone else's fault. Right.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:11 pm

seb146 wrote:
The government could be reopened by an act of Congress alone. If it were not for one, lone Republican who refuses to discuss it

https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/ ... government
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sh ... baf541dbbd

Oh, and look: He even shifts the blame to Pelosi

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politi ... 29400.html

McConnell refuses to open the government or even give the House bill a vote on the floor but it is someone else's fault. Right.


McConnell will forever be remembered as a cowardly lying enabler of the most corrupt regime in history.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:30 pm

casinterest wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The government could be reopened by an act of Congress alone. If it were not for one, lone Republican who refuses to discuss it

https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/ ... government
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sh ... baf541dbbd

Oh, and look: He even shifts the blame to Pelosi

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politi ... 29400.html

McConnell refuses to open the government or even give the House bill a vote on the floor but it is someone else's fault. Right.


McConnell will forever be remembered as a cowardly lying enabler of the most corrupt regime in history.


He not just refuses to give the bill a vote, he actually rushed out of hiding to oppose a democrat doing so.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:16 pm

casinterest wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
winginit wrote:

I think that's one of three outcomes:

1. What you've described above
2. Trump declares a State of Emergency to build his wall, is able to divert funds from Defense, and declares an end to the shutdown allowing the House bills to go through the Senate and eventually to his desk. There's a legal challenge from the left and the funds are never actually allocated and the wall never actually built.
3. TSA officers walk off the job at a major airport - shutting it down completely. Trump and/or the Republican Senators cave and re-open the government without wall funding.


Outcome #3. Revised: Historical Context
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professio ... tion_(1968)#August_1981_strike

Ronald Reagan declared the PATCO strike a "peril to national safety" and ordered them back to work under the terms of the Taft–Hartley Act. Only 1,300 of the nearly 13,000 controllers returned to work

On August 5, 1981 following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, Reagan fired the 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored the order, and banned them from federal service for life. In the wake of the strike and mass firings, the FAA was faced with the task of hiring and training enough controllers to replace those that had been fired, a hard problem to fix as, at the time, it took three years in normal conditions to train a new controller. They were replaced initially with non-participating controllers, supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, and in some cases by controllers transferred temporarily from other facilities. Some military controllers were also used until replacements could be trained.

So... perhaps Trump fires xxxxx TSA employees who have walked off the job, yadda yadda yadda, and replaces them, temporarily, with supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, and in some cases by TSA agents transferred temporarily from other facilities. Some military police to be used until replacements can be trained.


Either way in this case, Trump started the whole mess, and will cement his place in history as the worst president ever should #3 occur with a Reagan firing. These ATC controllers are being forced to work without pay. all because of a lying racist.


ATC Controllers??? I never know what side of sarcasm you are on casinterest.

BTY, the "lying racist" just doen't stick, no matter many times you regurgitate it.
 
atcdan
Posts: 100
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:10 am

These ATC controllers are being forced to work without pay. all because of a lying racist.[/quote]

ATC Controllers??? I never know what side of sarcasm you are on casinterest.

BTY, the "lying racist" just doen't stick, no matter many times you regurgitate it.[/quote]

Trump lies, often, and about things that are easily verifiable. I don't know if he's racist or not, but the lies can be proven.

I don't understand the sarcasm comment about ATC, but I work 6 days a week moving planes at the nation's third busiest airport, and I haven't been paid since 12/31/18, for work I did ending on 12/22. Our job has a lot of ups and downs, as I know many commercial pilots do as well. One of the major ups is the money, which again, we aren't receiving.

I personally think the "wall" would be a waste of money, but no matter what is agreed upon, the government should be open for negotiations to commence. I know at least two controllers on the west coast, with full certification and years of experience under their belt, who have resigned from the FAA after one missed paycheck. How long until the system is permanently crippled?
 
alfa164
Posts: 3997
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:30 am

atcdan wrote:
Trump lies, often, and about things that are easily verifiable. I don't know if he's racist or not, but the lies can be proven. I don't understand the sarcasm comment about ATC, but I work 6 days a week moving planes at the nation's third busiest airport, and I haven't been paid since 12/31/18, for work I did ending on 12/22. Our job has a lot of ups and downs, as I know many commercial pilots do as well. One of the major ups is the money, which again, we aren't receiving. I personally think the "wall" would be a waste of money, but no matter what is agreed upon, the government should be open for negotiations to commence. I know at least two controllers on the west coast, with full certification and years of experience under their belt, who have resigned from the FAA after one missed paycheck. How long until the system is permanently crippled?


Thank you for your input. It is easy for people with no knowledge of how these situations are being felt to make cold and provocative comments; here they have the ability to hide behind the anonymity of the internet. In truth, all this grandstanding is hurting the very people Trump depends on for his own security - and the people we all depend on for our security.

As I mentioned on another forum, Trump now says he has a "major announcement" about the border tomorrow, and there is no doubt that he is feeling pressure from his own party to find a way to end the shutdown. The White House says it will not be an "emergency" declaration, so what most likely remains is an attempt to make a face-saving deal to fund some of his vanity "border wall". I am thinking an offer to make a deal on DACA in exchange for some wall funding might be in the works; it seems like the most logical give-and-get between the parties, and would break the ice and allow bills for government funding to proceed.

I hope this "major announcement" is not just a rehash of his basest campaign speeches; that is, far too often, where he goes when he is given a platform. For you - and for the sake of our country - I hope sanity prevails, and we can put this tantrum behind us and move on.
Last edited by alfa164 on Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Topic Author
Posts: 14145
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:35 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
casinterest wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:

Outcome #3. Revised: Historical Context
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professio ... tion_(1968)#August_1981_strike

Ronald Reagan declared the PATCO strike a "peril to national safety" and ordered them back to work under the terms of the Taft–Hartley Act. Only 1,300 of the nearly 13,000 controllers returned to work

On August 5, 1981 following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, Reagan fired the 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored the order, and banned them from federal service for life. In the wake of the strike and mass firings, the FAA was faced with the task of hiring and training enough controllers to replace those that had been fired, a hard problem to fix as, at the time, it took three years in normal conditions to train a new controller. They were replaced initially with non-participating controllers, supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, and in some cases by controllers transferred temporarily from other facilities. Some military controllers were also used until replacements could be trained.

So... perhaps Trump fires xxxxx TSA employees who have walked off the job, yadda yadda yadda, and replaces them, temporarily, with supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, and in some cases by TSA agents transferred temporarily from other facilities. Some military police to be used until replacements can be trained.


Either way in this case, Trump started the whole mess, and will cement his place in history as the worst president ever should #3 occur with a Reagan firing. These ATC controllers are being forced to work without pay. all because of a lying racist.


ATC Controllers??? I never know what side of sarcasm you are on casinterest.

BTY, the "lying racist" just doen't stick, no matter many times you regurgitate it.



What a bummer. Did you donate to the lying racist?
 
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casinterest
Topic Author
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:39 am

atcdan wrote:
These ATC controllers are being forced to work without pay. all because of a lying racist.


ATC Controllers??? I never know what side of sarcasm you are on casinterest.

BTY, the "lying racist" just doen't stick, no matter many times you regurgitate it.[/quote]

Trump lies, often, and about things that are easily verifiable. I don't know if he's racist or not, but the lies can be proven.

I don't understand the sarcasm comment about ATC, but I work 6 days a week moving planes at the nation's third busiest airport, and I haven't been paid since 12/31/18, for work I did ending on 12/22. Our job has a lot of ups and downs, as I know many commercial pilots do as well. One of the major ups is the money, which again, we aren't receiving.

I personally think the "wall" would be a waste of money, but no matter what is agreed upon, the government should be open for negotiations to commence. I know at least two controllers on the west coast, with full certification and years of experience under their belt, who have resigned from the FAA after one missed paycheck. How long until the system is permanently crippled?[/quote]

Thank you for all your hard work ATCDAN. I made a typo, and that is all someone like DirectFlight can concentrate on. Keep strong, and hopefully some better minds can get us through the pain of this administration. Hopefully your bills will be honored by the companies owed without interest.


The Lies of Donald Trump and his administration, and their racist undercurrent are destroying this country. I had hopes that Trump would be better than he seemed, but he is worse.
 
salttee
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:12 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
BTY, the "lying racist" just doen't stick, no matter many times you regurgitate it.

Which part of lying racist don't you understand?
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:27 am

salttee wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
BTY, the "lying racist" just doen't stick, no matter many times you regurgitate it.

Which part of lying racist don't you understand?


Especially considering that what will "never stick" is already the opinion of more than half the nation ...

So half the country thinks he is a racists, half of the rest of the country is racists, that only leaves 25% of the country to believe he is not

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wdbn ... is-america

Best regards
Thomas
 
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Jouhou
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:40 am

So on my local base apparently the food bank for service members has been completely drained, and they've sent out pleas for donations to feed the coast guard. Pathetic. At least I've had several cars pull up to me while walking on base asking where to bring their donations. At least some people care.

So basically, we are letting a branch of the military go hungry because the president is having a political tantrum.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Trump just told reports that a caravan is coming and more walls is needed to stop these caravans. Then 2 seconds later, said the last caravan stopped in Tiajuana and they are not in this country.

How do you reconcile that?
 
ltbewr
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:43 pm

It will be interesting what Trump announces this afternoon at 3 PM. Likely his declaration of a National Emergency at the border and attempting to move money from disaster relief to build his wall and bashing of Democrats.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:09 pm

ltbewr wrote:
It will be interesting what Trump announces this afternoon at 3 PM. Likely his declaration of a National Emergency at the border and attempting to move money from disaster relief to build his wall and bashing of Democrats.


He will lie. Use some more racist invection such as border rugs, rapists, murderers, drugs, and rail on about Pelosi.

Maybe he will finally give DACA a go. Either way. he is losing in the court of public opinion and is about to be responsible for a downturn in the economy.
 
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seb146
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:07 pm

ltbewr wrote:
It will be interesting what Trump announces this afternoon at 3 PM. Likely his declaration of a National Emergency at the border and attempting to move money from disaster relief to build his wall and bashing of Democrats.


IF he declares a national emergency at the border, that would be going rogue. The Republican party in general does not want that because it sets precedent for the next Democratic occupant of the White House to declare a national emergency over health care and/or guns and/or education and/or
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:57 am

tommy1808 wrote:
salttee wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
BTY, the "lying racist" just doen't stick, no matter many times you regurgitate it.

Which part of lying racist don't you understand?


Especially considering that what will "never stick" is already the opinion of more than half the nation ...

So half the country thinks he is a racists, half of the rest of the country is racists, that only leaves 25% of the country to believe he is not

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wdbn ... is-america

Best regards
Thomas


And the rest of the country needs Grammarly.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:19 am

So basically, we need to pass the budget bill. Trumps new tactic of trying to use DACA as a bargaining chip requires a bill separate from the budget.

The wall had no place in the budget in the first place, that's the kind of thing that needs a separate bill. Now he's dragging in something else that needs a separate bill.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:25 am

Nobody is ever fully happy in a compromise. That's why it is a compromise.

Will be interesting to see what the Senate vote looks like.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:57 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Nobody is ever fully happy in a compromise. That's why it is a compromise.

Will be interesting to see what the Senate vote looks like.

But interesting how Republican's version of compromise is "my way or the highway".

Leaving aside the fact that he keeps insisting the wall is built and working, and/or that Mexico will be/has been paying for it, notice how Trump isn't even remotely discussing reducing his amount. Where on earth did the $5.6B estimate come from? It's not even detailed as to how the money will be spent. He can't even decide if it's a steel fence or a concrete barrier.

As for the Senate vote, it's also interesting to note how our Turtle majority leader slams Democrats for wanting to bring what he calls "show votes"...votes that will not be signed by Trump and/or have no chance of passing the Senate. But he's more than ready to bring this proposal to a vote, despite not even knowing if the GOP conference in the Senate will accept it or if House Republicans will agree to vote for it.

As of now, President Ann Coulter has expressed her misgivings about the deal and Congressional Republicans will definitely reconsider whether to invoke her wrath, especially since apparently Trump takes her word seriously.
 
ltbewr
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:43 am

Basically, Pres. Trump is now using the Dreamers as hostages. Not a good look. But Trump was right in one part as to the failure to have a sound immigration policy for generations.
 
salttee
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:08 am

ltbewr wrote:
Basically, Pres. Trump is now using the Dreamers as hostages. Not a good look. But Trump was right in one part as to the failure to have a sound immigration policy for generations.

If anyone wants sound immigration policy all they need to do is send a half a dozen employers of illegals to jail and confiscate their companies - and that will be the end of immigration north. And most of the illegals here would go home. Employment opportunities would then open up for bottom dwelling real Americans, so unemployment here would drop to nada so a big dent would be made in the homeless problem.

But the Republicans (and the rich Dems) want cheap labor.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:22 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
salttee wrote:
Which part of lying racist don't you understand?


Especially considering that what will "never stick" is already the opinion of more than half the nation ...

So half the country thinks he is a racists, half of the rest of the country is racists, that only leaves 25% of the country to believe he is not

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wdbn ... is-america

Best regards
Thomas


And the rest of the country needs Grammarly.


I am glad to see you agree with the content of my post and that we got that one out if the way.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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Jouhou
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:41 am

tommy1808 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Especially considering that what will "never stick" is already the opinion of more than half the nation ...

So half the country thinks he is a racists, half of the rest of the country is racists, that only leaves 25% of the country to believe he is not

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wdbn ... is-america

Best regards
Thomas


And the rest of the country needs Grammarly.


I am glad to see you agree with the content of my post and that we got that one out if the way.

Best regards
Thomas


As a german, any idea how we are supposed to deal with these people who seek to shame our country in the eyes of history with their extreme xenophobia? I'm pretty sure Germany has probably done more analysis on prevention than the rest of us.
 
KICT
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:17 am

I've just about had it with this crap.
Every air traffic controller should refuse to work. Every TSA agent should refuse to work.
Why the unions aren't organizing this is beyond me. I don't care that they "aren't allowed to strike", to hell with it.
They aren't allowed to be forced into slave labor, either. See you in court, MFer!
 
KICT
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:22 am

Maybe a local MAGAt can answer this question...
If Trump wanted $5B for this wall so badly, why was the wall funding not included in their last budget request WHEN THE REPUBLICANS HAD CONTROL OF CONGRESS?
 
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Jouhou
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:58 am

KICT wrote:
I've just about had it with this crap.
Every air traffic controller should refuse to work. Every TSA agent should refuse to work.
Why the unions aren't organizing this is beyond me. I don't care that they "aren't allowed to strike", to hell with it.
They aren't allowed to be forced into slave labor, either. See you in court, MFer!


Yeah, well, we legally can't strike. I've been trying to convey to people that feds can't defend their selves when politicians come to make our lives hell. Between castrated unions and the hatch act, we've been set up to be screwed.
 
ltbewr
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:33 am

Jouhou wrote:
KICT wrote:
I've just about had it with this crap.
Every air traffic controller should refuse to work. Every TSA agent should refuse to work.
Why the unions aren't organizing this is beyond me. I don't care that they "aren't allowed to strike", to hell with it.
They aren't allowed to be forced into slave labor, either. See you in court, MFer!


Yeah, well, we legally can't strike. I've been trying to convey to people that feds can't defend their selves when politicians come to make our lives hell. Between castrated unions and the hatch act, we've been set up to be screwed.


I think TSA and other affected government workers at airports should take a lesson from some airline employees in the past, do an 'informational' protest', that is when off duty have a couple 100 of them marching with signs in front of terminal entrances. It would be protected speech, not a strike so no violations of law. Of course they might be seen as a security risk and cops getting tough, but not currently being paid with a promise in the future calls for serious responses but not interfere with operational and security needs.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:02 pm

Jouhou wrote:
KICT wrote:
I've just about had it with this crap.
Every air traffic controller should refuse to work. Every TSA agent should refuse to work.
Why the unions aren't organizing this is beyond me. I don't care that they "aren't allowed to strike", to hell with it.
They aren't allowed to be forced into slave labor, either. See you in court, MFer!


Yeah, well, we legally can't strike. I've been trying to convey to people that feds can't defend their selves when politicians come to make our lives hell. Between castrated unions and the hatch act, we've been set up to be screwed.


"Dienst nach Vorschrift" is what our public servants do in those cases, "Work-to-rule" isn't an entirely comparable concept, add a lot of malicious compliance and you get close.

I am sure TSA agents have lots of ways to grind air traffic to a halt by sticking to the rules word for word, and who wants to be the superior to order them to ignore tells... and who can proof there where no tells. Hard to fire people over following rules either...

Best regards
Thomas
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:13 pm

Jouhou wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:

And the rest of the country needs Grammarly.


I am glad to see you agree with the content of my post and that we got that one out if the way.

Best regards
Thomas


As a german, any idea how we are supposed to deal with these people who seek to shame our country in the eyes of history with their extreme xenophobia? I'm pretty sure Germany has probably done more analysis on prevention than the rest of us.


We stopped the whole "I disagree with you, but I will fight for your right to say it" nonsense. If you say something stupid you can be reasonable sure to get pushback. No "I disagree but respect your opinion" fluffy kumbaya singing and dancing where everything is hugs and puppies....
We also made our bill of rights a hard limit, your right to live goes out of the window if you try to overthrow it. Thats 2nd amendment plus if you so wish....
Phrased sort of nice, "All Germans shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order, if no other remedy is available.", but it means we get to f*ck you up if you try. That does a lot for consciousness about those issues. It puts some weight on the notion that not all options are equal.
Also, we put you in prison, Alex Jones would be rotting in one for a long, long time already.. lies are not protected speech, and why would they, and that has some dampening effect.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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seb146
Posts: 24075
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:14 pm

salttee wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Basically, Pres. Trump is now using the Dreamers as hostages. Not a good look. But Trump was right in one part as to the failure to have a sound immigration policy for generations.

If anyone wants sound immigration policy all they need to do is send a half a dozen employers of illegals to jail and confiscate their companies - and that will be the end of immigration north. And most of the illegals here would go home. Employment opportunities would then open up for bottom dwelling real Americans, so unemployment here would drop to nada so a big dent would be made in the homeless problem.

But the Republicans (and the rich Dems) want cheap labor.


And making eVerify work.

This also brings up a great point about getting money out of politics. People are elected to Congress and come out the other side as millionaires. On a base salary of $174,000 per year. That is thanks to lobbying groups.
 
salttee
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:47 pm

eVerify is bullshit if there's no real attempt at enforcement of laws against hiring illegals. It's just a placebo currently; it's only function is to confuse the issue.

People who are not citizens need passports. Anyone without native fluency in English should be required to show their passport or citizenship papers in order to engage in any money making activity in this country. That's the way most other countries operate.
 
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seb146
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:08 pm

salttee wrote:
eVerify is bullshit if there's no real attempt at enforcement of laws against hiring illegals. It's just a placebo currently; it's only function is to confuse the issue.


So we need both. Nothing wrong with that!

People who are not citizens need passports. Anyone without native fluency in English should be required to show their passport or citizenship papers in order to engage in any money making activity in this country. That's the way most other countries operate.


This is not "most other countries". We need to follow up on those who overstay their visas, too. English proficiency has nothing to do with anything other than giving one group of people a head start over others. People can live their whole lives in some parts of the United States speaking no English at all.

Given the recent discovery of yet another tunnel under the border, we need more than just a stupid vanity wall. We need people patrolling. We need drones. We need people checking visa status. We need people checking on birth tourism. You are upset over people coming from the South and working in the fields but what about people coming from the East who speak no English and are here simply to have their baby? What about people from the Middle East coming here to study and simply do not leave? You don't sound as upset over those Why not?
 
alfa164
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:34 pm

seb146 wrote:
Given the recent discovery of yet another tunnel under the border, we need more than just a stupid vanity wall. We need people patrolling. We need drones. We need people checking visa status.


... but you can't put "TRUMP" in big, gaudy gold letters on people patrolling... or on a drone. Unless it is a beautiful, yugge drone... maybe that would satisfy the narcissist-in-chief...

;)
 
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casinterest
Topic Author
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:21 am

alfa164 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Given the recent discovery of yet another tunnel under the border, we need more than just a stupid vanity wall. We need people patrolling. We need drones. We need people checking visa status.


... but you can't put "TRUMP" in big, gaudy gold letters on people patrolling... or on a drone. Unless it is a beautiful, yugge drone... maybe that would satisfy the narcissist-in-chief...

;)


Walls only slow those already on their way. Trump is wasting money for his racist , lying , and ignroant supporters;

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