VTKillarney wrote:

Respectfully, all of those questions have been addressed by me already.

VTKillarney wrote:

Respectfully, all of those questions have been addressed by me already.

A3801000 wrote:

So? What will change? Tell us what this wall will do.

VTKillarney wrote:

Trump’s 300+ mile plan to build in strategic locations IS on the table. Many of those miles aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

VTKillarney wrote:

Trump’s 300+ mile plan IS on the table. Many of those movies les aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

VTKillarney wrote:

Trump’s 300+ mile plan to build in strategic locations IS on the table. Many of those miles aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

Tugger wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

Trump’s 300+ mile plan IS on the table. Many of those movies les aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

And you are claiming that Trump and the Republican's are not playing politics? And that it's not about optics for Trump in particular?

Also exactly what is Trumps "300 mile plan"? Where are the barriers to go? What does the plan do to include normal maintenance and replacement of current barriers (but not with the stupid 30 foot monstrosities he sampled last year - in fact none of those have been approved etc.). What is the plan?

Tugg

2122M wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

Trump’s 300+ mile plan to build in strategic locations IS on the table. Many of those miles aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

You can only start calling it 'Trump's plan" when Trump own that plan. As of now, it's not 'Trump's Plan', its 'DHS's best guess'.

2nd, both chambers agreed to partial funding in December. Trump said no. And it's the dems that are disagreeable?

VTKillarney wrote:

Tugger wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

Trump’s 300+ mile plan IS on the table. Many of those movies les aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

And you are claiming that Trump and the Republican's are not playing politics? And that it's not about optics for Trump in particular?

Also exactly what is Trumps "300 mile plan"? Where are the barriers to go? What does the plan do to include normal maintenance and replacement of current barriers (but not with the stupid 30 foot monstrosities he sampled last year - in fact none of those have been approved etc.). What is the plan?

Tugg

The exact locations have been posted here twice already.

VTKillarney wrote:

Tugger wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

Trump’s 300+ mile plan IS on the table. Many of those movies les aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

And you are claiming that Trump and the Republican's are not playing politics? And that it's not about optics for Trump in particular?

Also exactly what is Trumps "300 mile plan"? Where are the barriers to go? What does the plan do to include normal maintenance and replacement of current barriers (but not with the stupid 30 foot monstrosities he sampled last year - in fact none of those have been approved etc.). What is the plan?

Tugg

The exact locations have been posted here twice already.

VTKillarney wrote:

Tugger wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

Trump’s 300+ mile plan IS on the table. Many of those movies les aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

And you are claiming that Trump and the Republican's are not playing politics? And that it's not about optics for Trump in particular?

Also exactly what is Trumps "300 mile plan"? Where are the barriers to go? What does the plan do to include normal maintenance and replacement of current barriers (but not with the stupid 30 foot monstrosities he sampled last year - in fact none of those have been approved etc.). What is the plan?

Tugg

The exact locations have been posted here twice already.

Of particular concern is what will happen to lower-income people and tax refunds. Macquarie noted the potential effect on retailers:

“Today is a primer in case tax refunds are delayed despite what the White House has to say about tax refund precedent when the government is shutdown. If the government remains shut down going into earnings — we may hear some conservative commentary about [quarter-to-date] comp trends from the retailers. Ultimately, the government will reopen and checks will be sent out but it may happen later in the first quarter of 2019.”"

casinterest wrote:

More effects of the shutdown . Wall street is starting to get nervous.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/the-3-w ... treet.html
"

Of particular concern is what will happen to lower-income people and tax refunds. Macquarie noted the potential effect on retailers:

“Today is a primer in case tax refunds are delayed despite what the White House has to say about tax refund precedent when the government is shutdown. If the government remains shut down going into earnings — we may hear some conservative commentary about [quarter-to-date] comp trends from the retailers. Ultimately, the government will reopen and checks will be sent out but it may happen later in the first quarter of 2019.”"

VTKillarney wrote:

For the third time, Tugg:

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.

VTKillarney wrote:

For the third time, Tugg:

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.

VTKillarney wrote:

casinterest wrote:

More effects of the shutdown . Wall street is starting to get nervous.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/the-3-w ... treet.html
"

Of particular concern is what will happen to lower-income people and tax refunds. Macquarie noted the potential effect on retailers:

“Today is a primer in case tax refunds are delayed despite what the White House has to say about tax refund precedent when the government is shutdown. If the government remains shut down going into earnings — we may hear some conservative commentary about [quarter-to-date] comp trends from the retailers. Ultimately, the government will reopen and checks will be sent out but it may happen later in the first quarter of 2019.”"

All over an additional 150 miles of barrier that the Democrats have previously supported.

A3801000 wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

For the third time, Tugg:

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.

You never posted this before ever, contrary to what you wrote before.

VTKillarney wrote:

A3801000 wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

For the third time, Tugg:

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.

You never posted this before ever, contrary to what you wrote before.

To set the record straight, this was posted yesterday at 21:48.

Link here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1412067&p=20997843&hilit=centro#p20997843

2122M wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

A3801000 wrote:

You never posted this before ever, contrary to what you wrote before.

To set the record straight, this was posted yesterday at 21:48.

Link here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1412067&p=20997843&hilit=centro#p20997843

The post is a lie anyway, so I don't know why you are really trying to drive it home. You still have no idea what Trump's plan is, all you have are the DHS guesses posted above. Its pretty flimsy evidence to use to endorse Trump's 'negotiating tactic' of shutting down the government when he doesn't get his way.

VTKillarney wrote:

2122M wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

To set the record straight, this was posted yesterday at 21:48.

Link here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1412067&p=20997843&hilit=centro#p20997843

The post is a lie anyway, so I don't know why you are really trying to drive it home. You still have no idea what Trump's plan is, all you have are the DHS guesses posted above. Its pretty flimsy evidence to use to endorse Trump's 'negotiating tactic' of shutting down the government when he doesn't get his way.

Let me highlight the part that you appear to be missing.

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.

2122M wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

2122M wrote:

The post is a lie anyway, so I don't know why you are really trying to drive it home. You still have no idea what Trump's plan is, all you have are the DHS guesses posted above. Its pretty flimsy evidence to use to endorse Trump's 'negotiating tactic' of shutting down the government when he doesn't get his way.

Let me highlight the part that you appear to be missing.

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.

Thank you for highlighting the part of your post that is the lie. When has Trump been clear about that?

VTKillarney wrote:

2122M wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

To set the record straight, this was posted yesterday at 21:48.

Link here: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... #p20997843

The post is a lie anyway, so I don't know why you are really trying to drive it home. You still have no idea what Trump's plan is, all you have are the DHS guesses posted above. Its pretty flimsy evidence to use to endorse Trump's 'negotiating tactic' of shutting down the government when he doesn't get his way.

Let me highlight the part that you appear to be missing.

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.

You can also see the primary source here:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/12/12/walls-work

What’s next you might ask? When combined with the funds provided in FY 2017 and FY 2018, if funded at $5B in FY 2019 DHS expects to construct more than 330 miles of border wall in the U.S. Border Patrol’s highest priority locations across the Southwest border.

DHS is positioned to construct 215 miles of Border Patrol’s highest priority border wall miles including:

~5 miles in San Diego Sector in California
~14 miles in El Centro Sector in California
~27 miles in Yuma Sector in Arizona
~9 miles in El Paso Sector in New Mexico
~55 miles in Laredo Sector in Texas
~104 miles in Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas

casinterest wrote:

How will that Rio Grande Valley wall help? There is already a river there , Laredo which has fewer walls also has fewer crossings. This makes no sense how the walls will help.

VTKillarney wrote:

2122M wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

Let me highlight the part that you appear to be missing.

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.

Thank you for highlighting the part of your post that is the lie. When has Trump been clear about that?

You can see the primary source here:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/12/12/walls-work

What’s next you might ask? When combined with the funds provided in FY 2017 and FY 2018, if funded at $5B in FY 2019 DHS expects to construct more than 330 miles of border wall in the U.S. Border Patrol’s highest priority locations across the Southwest border.

DHS is positioned to construct 215 miles of Border Patrol’s highest priority border wall miles including:

~5 miles in San Diego Sector in California
~14 miles in El Centro Sector in California
~27 miles in Yuma Sector in Arizona
~9 miles in El Paso Sector in New Mexico
~55 miles in Laredo Sector in Texas
~104 miles in Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas

If you have any evidence that Trump has told DHS to alter this plan I am all ears. It's interesting that your objection now is merely that Trump could have been a better communicator - not over the plan itself.

Look, I get that this strategic placement of a barrier makes the liberal narrative fall apart. It has got to be painful to realize that Schumer and Pelosi have chosen to shut down government over something that they supported just two years ago. I share that pain. When you play with people's lives, not over your beliefs but over your ego, it's a true shame.

VTKillarney wrote:

casinterest wrote:

How will that Rio Grande Valley wall help? There is already a river there , Laredo which has fewer walls also has fewer crossings. This makes no sense how the walls will help.

The best answer I can give you is that the professionals at the Department of Homeland Security believe that it will - as part of an overall plan of securing our borders. Nobody has suggested that the wall is the ONLY plan. That wold be a straw man.

I'm told by liberals that government is good at governing, and I am trusting that liberal viewpoint in this situation. If you have evidence that they lack professional knowledge, I am all ears. That's a rather extraordinary claim, however.

You might not be too familiar with the Rio Grande. It's not exactly a formidable river to cross.

2122M wrote:

Trump asked for 18-20 BIllion at the beginning of the year, and agreed in principal to 1.8 Billion as late as December. No he wants 5.6 Billion. You think any of this is his plan?

2122M wrote:

Trump asked for 18-20 BIllion at the beginning of the year, and agreed in principal to 1.8 Billion as late as December. Now he wants 5.6 Billion. You think any of this is his plan? DHS is just estimating what they could do with this particular arbitrary amount. And you can't spin this as anything other than Trump's shutdown. He turned down the compromise and is now withholding paychecks from Air Traffic Controllers, TSA Agents and many many more simply because he can't deal with any disagreement. Lets not forget that you full heartedly support him approaching a negation by keeping money out of the pockets of 800,000 federal employees.

VTKillarney wrote:

2122M wrote:

Trump asked for 18-20 BIllion at the beginning of the year, and agreed in principal to 1.8 Billion as late as December. No he wants 5.6 Billion. You think any of this is his plan?

I know three things. (1) Trump is asking for $5.6 billion. (2) We know exactly how that $5.6 billion will be spent. (3) Strategic placement of barriers, such as this, is something that Democrats have supported.

At the end of the day, Pelosi and Schumer won't agree to something that they have gone on record supporting. It's their shutdown now. And I get it. That's a painful thing to come to terms with if you are a liberal.

My opinion would be very different if Trump was asking for $20 billion. But he's clearly been willing to compromise.

casinterest wrote:

It is a certain times of the year, but the issue is that if it isn't formidable, why isn't Laredo seeing more crossings? There is a lot less wall there.

2122M wrote:

Here's an actual, real quote from Trump: ''I am proud to shut down the government'". He's owning the shutdown, you should let him.

VTKillarney wrote:

casinterest wrote:

It is a certain times of the year, but the issue is that if it isn't formidable, why isn't Laredo seeing more crossings? There is a lot less wall there.

DHS has identified Laredo as one of the top spots in need of a wall. That ought to speak for itself.

Keep in mind that Pelosi and Schumer were completely on board with strategic barrier placement just two years ago.

VTKillarney wrote:

casinterest wrote:

It is a certain times of the year, but the issue is that if it isn't formidable, why isn't Laredo seeing more crossings? There is a lot less wall there.

DHS has identified Laredo as one of the top spots in need of a wall. That ought to speak for itself.

Keep in mind that Pelosi and Schumer were completely on board with strategic barrier placement just two years ago.

2122M wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

casinterest wrote:

It is a certain times of the year, but the issue is that if it isn't formidable, why isn't Laredo seeing more crossings? There is a lot less wall there.

DHS has identified Laredo as one of the top spots in need of a wall. That ought to speak for itself.

Keep in mind that Pelosi and Schumer were completely on board with strategic barrier placement just two years ago.

The DHS under Obama did not see the need for all this wall. which DHS was right?

VTKillarney wrote:

2122M wrote:

Here's an actual, real quote from Trump: ''I am proud to shut down the government'". He's owning the shutdown, you should let him.

Trump is bombastic. I don't think you have offered anything new here. But I also think that you are smart enough to peel below the first layer of the onion.

Here are the facts:
1) Trump's proposal is merely for limited, strategically placed barriers.
2) Schumer and Pelosi have gone on record supported barriers used in this fashion.
3) Trump has come down substantially in what he is requesting.
4) The Democrats haven't budged one bit.

It's the Democrats' shutdown now.

VTKillarney wrote:

2122M wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

DHS has identified Laredo as one of the top spots in need of a wall. That ought to speak for itself.

Keep in mind that Pelosi and Schumer were completely on board with strategic barrier placement just two years ago.

The DHS under Obama did not see the need for all this wall. which DHS was right?

It's the same DHS. DHS under Obama most definitely believed in walls and fences placed in strategic locations. Chuck Schumer and Obama were on board.
Literally nothing has changed - other than a bombastic President.

VTKillarney wrote:

2122M wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

DHS has identified Laredo as one of the top spots in need of a wall. That ought to speak for itself.

Keep in mind that Pelosi and Schumer were completely on board with strategic barrier placement just two years ago.

The DHS under Obama did not see the need for all this wall. which DHS was right?

It's the same DHS. DHS under Obama most definitely believed in walls and fences placed in strategic locations. Chuck Schumer and Obama were on board. Massive amounts of fencing were built under Obama. Sadly, Obama tried to do things on the cheap and Trump's plan includes rebuilding a lot of that fencing and in some cases replacing it with a more formidable wall.

So literally nothing has changed - other than a bombastic President.

t will only take another two weeks for the shutdown to cost the economy more than $6 billion, according to S&P Global ratings.
The partial government shutdown enters its 21st day Friday, tying the record for longest lapse in federal funding.

few days ago, Will Kohler, a tax examiner for the IRS, filed for unemployment. He’s been out of work for three weeks now due to the gridlock in Washington, D.C.

“It seems like it’s going to go on forever,” Kohler, 55, said, from his house in Covington, Kentucky. “I need to eat.”

He has $500 left until his first unemployment check arrives.

VTKillarney wrote:

For the umpteenth time that is a strawman argument. The government spends lots of money on lots of things. They are going to spend a very very small fraction of their budget on this wall and they are going to spend money on other laudable projects. The deficit under Obama ballooned. But all of the sudden the Democrats are clutching their pearls over an expense that is a trivial percentage of the federal budget.

casinterest wrote:

Unemployment will be up as Federal workers are filing for Unemployment.

casinterest wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

For the umpteenth time that is a strawman argument. The government spends lots of money on lots of things. They are going to spend a very very small fraction of their budget on this wall and they are going to spend money on other laudable projects. The deficit under Obama ballooned. But all of the sudden the Democrats are clutching their pearls over an expense that is a trivial percentage of the federal budget.

Does it not bother you that Trump has used bogus statistics to justify his wall?
Does it not bother you that Trump has staged walkouts in negotiations to justify his intransigence?
Does it not bother you that Trump only pushed the shutdown after being called out by a media outlet?
Does it not bother you that Trump doesn't recognize the bogus statistics and agree to let Congress sit down and hammer out the logistics and solutions without putting hard working Americans out of a Job?

VTKillarney wrote:

casinterest wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

For the umpteenth time that is a strawman argument. The government spends lots of money on lots of things. They are going to spend a very very small fraction of their budget on this wall and they are going to spend money on other laudable projects. The deficit under Obama ballooned. But all of the sudden the Democrats are clutching their pearls over an expense that is a trivial percentage of the federal budget.

Does it not bother you that Trump has used bogus statistics to justify his wall?
Does it not bother you that Trump has staged walkouts in negotiations to justify his intransigence?
Does it not bother you that Trump only pushed the shutdown after being called out by a media outlet?
Does it not bother you that Trump doesn't recognize the bogus statistics and agree to let Congress sit down and hammer out the logistics and solutions without putting hard working Americans out of a Job?

It bothers me that Pelosi and Schumer are shutting down government over something that they have already expressed their agreement to.

I trust DHS’ judgment just as I trusted their judgment under Obama. DHS has consistently seen the value of strategically placed barriers - and so have the Democrats. Trump has come WAY down on his request and is now asking for nothing more.

VTKillarney wrote:

casinterest wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

For the umpteenth time that is a strawman argument. The government spends lots of money on lots of things. They are going to spend a very very small fraction of their budget on this wall and they are going to spend money on other laudable projects. The deficit under Obama ballooned. But all of the sudden the Democrats are clutching their pearls over an expense that is a trivial percentage of the federal budget.

Does it not bother you that Trump has used bogus statistics to justify his wall?
Does it not bother you that Trump has staged walkouts in negotiations to justify his intransigence?
Does it not bother you that Trump only pushed the shutdown after being called out by a media outlet?
Does it not bother you that Trump doesn't recognize the bogus statistics and agree to let Congress sit down and hammer out the logistics and solutions without putting hard working Americans out of a Job?

It bothers me that Pelosi and Schumer are shutting down government over something that they have already expressed their agreement to.

I trust DHS’ judgment just as I trusted their judgment under Obama. DHS has consistently seen the value of strategically placed barriers - and so have the Democrats. Trump has come WAY down on his request and is now asking for nothing more.

VTKillarney wrote:

Good old CNN.

https://www.kusi.com/cnn-requests-kusi- ... all-works/

Interesting quote from the article:
“We have continuously been told by Border Patrol Agents that the barrier along the Southern border helps prevent illegal entries, drugs, and weapons from entering the United States, and the numbers prove it.”

Why don’t Democrats respect federal workers by listening to them?

VTKillarney wrote:

Good old CNN.

https://www.kusi.com/cnn-requests-kusi- ... all-works/

Interesting quote from the article:
“We have continuously been told by Border Patrol Agents that the barrier along the Southern border helps prevent illegal entries, drugs, and weapons from entering the United States, and the numbers prove it.”

Why don’t Democrats respect federal workers by listening to them?

A CNN spokesperson pushed back on KUSI's claim on Friday, calling it a "non story" since the network ultimately didn't book any reporters from stations in the San Diego area.


"We called several local stations to book someone for a show. We didn’t end up booking any of them," says a CNN spokesperson in a statement to The Hill. "That happens many times every single day. We did, however, book a reporter from KUSI for a story on immigration and the border wall on CNN in November. This is a non story."