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Tugger
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:15 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Saltee,

How soon you forget that Democrats we’re advocating for barriers along the border.

You can wish that we’ve all forgotten, but we haven’t.

Great, so bring Trump back to negotiate for a barrier as the Dems were proposing. Think he can or will do that?

No more "the wall".

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
alfa164
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:19 pm

salttee wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Saltee, How soon you forget that Democrats we’re advocating for barriers along the border.
You can wish that we’ve all forgotten, but we haven’t.
Once again you try to slip one by with a false claim. The democrats never advocated a "wall" as Trump is trying to sell. Not even close, there is no comparison. And you leave no support for your claim anyway, so your just throwing out a Tu Quoque fallacy, aka whataboutism.


But Trump says, "Much of the Wall has been fully renovated or built." So anything the democrats were supporting must already be there... as are the "strategically deployed" sections Comrade Moderate claims are needed. So other than being a vanity project for the man-child in the White House, there is no need for billions in funding.

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
Mexico is paying for the Wall through the new USMCA Trade Deal. Much of the Wall has already been fully renovated or built. We have done a lot of work. $5.6 Billion Dollars that House has approved is very little in comparison to the benefits of National Security. Quick payback!
129K
7:35 AM - Jan 2, 2019
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
alfa164
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:40 pm

Tugger wrote:
Great, so bring Trump back to negotiate for a barrier as the Dems were proposing. Think he can or will do that?
No more "the wall".
Tugg


Dahlia Lithwick, whose legal writings I almost always enjoy reading, has a great take on his Monday night infomercial:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... ilure.html
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:47 pm

alfa164 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Great, so bring Trump back to negotiate for a barrier as the Dems were proposing. Think he can or will do that?
No more "the wall".
Tugg


Dahlia Lithwick, whose legal writings I almost always enjoy reading, has a great take on his Monday night infomercial:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... ilure.html

As a moderate, I seek out sources from both sides. The left leaning opinion pieces generally say that Trump did a bad job. The right leaning pieces generally say that Trump did a good job. That probably means that his speech wasn’t a game changer, which happened to be my immediate reaction.

On the other hand, a LOT of sources from the left have been critical of the rebuttal. Not all, but a lot.
 
salttee
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:52 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Semantics won’t save you. Democrats wanted a barrier. They were so proud of voting for them. They loved them!

This is another of your many oblique mischaracterizations that a person conversing with you has to decide whether to ignore or to challenge. If it is ignored, you score a victory or at least you get to throw an insult and get away with it. If it is challenged, you have again succeeded in changing the subject at an opportune time for yourself.

The subject being discussed before you began your slipsliding, was your assertion in post 581, two pages ago.

VTKillarney wrote:
Every legitimate study I have seen agrees that a wall is effective if deployed strategically. Even the Democrats have consistently believed this - and quite vocally so.

The one argument that people tend to use to counter this is that a wall diverts crossings to more difficult areas. The problem with this argument is that the evidence suggests that a smaller subset of people are willing to take on that additional risk. They also neglect to mention that it makes it easier to deploy our forces if people are funneled into fewer areas.


casinterest challenged you, so you threw out a link and misrepresented what was said in your own link - and casinterest challenged you on that. I guess you wore him out and he gave up. But you still haven't backed up your claim in post 581 or conceded that you were just making things up. Now you're in slipsliding mode trying to change the subject and throwing insults to boot.

Do you have any respect for ethics? Do you have a spine?

Why are you here?
 
alfa164
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:53 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Great, so bring Trump back to negotiate for a barrier as the Dems were proposing. Think he can or will do that?
No more "the wall".
Tugg


Dahlia Lithwick, whose legal writings I almost always enjoy reading, has a great take on his Monday night infomercial:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... ilure.html

As a moderate, I seek out sources from both sides. The left leaning opinion pieces generally say that Trump did a bad job. The right leaning pieces generally say that Trump did a good job. That probably means that his speech wasn’t a game changer, which happened to be my immediate reaction.
On the other hand, a LOT of sources from the left have been critical of the rebuttal. Not all, but a lot.


Cite them. You seem to constantly be factually-challenged...
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
CaliAtenza
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:54 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Semantics won’t save you. Democrats wanted a barrier. They were so proud of voting for them. They loved them!


You do speak English right? A barrier (which is what is already down there along much of the border) is quite different than a wall. Dump wants a Berlin Wall style monstrosity.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:09 am

CaliAtenza wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Semantics won’t save you. Democrats wanted a barrier. They were so proud of voting for them. They loved them!


You do speak English right? A barrier (which is what is already down there along much of the border) is quite different than a wall. Dump wants a Berlin Wall style monstrosity.


I don’t think VTK even knows what his point is anymore. It seems he disagrees with Trumps vision for a “big, beautiful wall” but still thinks he is right to hold the government hostage over it and that the Dems should cave to this bad idea.

Its the train of thoughts of a lost argument he is refusing to let go of.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:15 am

CaliAtenza wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Semantics won’t save you. Democrats wanted a barrier. They were so proud of voting for them. They loved them!


You do speak English right? A barrier (which is what is already down there along much of the border) is quite different than a wall. Dump wants a Berlin Wall style monstrosity.

A wall is a type of barrier. Are you suggesting that the Democrats are shutting down government merely over aesthetics and not functionality? You may be right, I suppose.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:19 am

salttee wrote:
Once again you try to slip one by with a false claim. The democrats never advocated a "wall" as Trump is trying to sell. Not even close, there is no comparison. And you leave no support for your claim anyway, so your just throwing out a Tu Quoque fallacy, aka whataboutism.


So the only dispute in Washington is what style of physcial barrier, right?

Half of America can see right through that weak smokescreen. Let's stop the lame excuses. Just admit that the Democrat party is in favor of open borders, high illegal immigration, cultural fracturing of America, drugs, crime, cheap labor driving down wages, and possibly most importantly, more voters to their payroll to ensure power over the people. In other worlds, that's not nice.
 
salttee
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:20 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Just admit that the Democrat party is in favor of open borders

Link?
 
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Tugger
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:51 am

MSPNWA wrote:
the Democrat party is in favor of open borders, high illegal immigration, cultural fracturing of America, drugs, crime, cheap labor driving down wages, and possibly most importantly, more voters to their payroll to ensure power over the people.

What fantasy world do you live in?

Seriously, that is as lame as it gets for a "what the Dems want" rant. It is nonsensical and vapid.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:07 am

MSPNWA wrote:
salttee wrote:
Once again you try to slip one by with a false claim. The democrats never advocated a "wall" as Trump is trying to sell. Not even close, there is no comparison. And you leave no support for your claim anyway, so your just throwing out a Tu Quoque fallacy, aka whataboutism.


So the only dispute in Washington is what style of physcial barrier, right?

Half of America can see right through that weak smokescreen. Let's stop the lame excuses. Just admit that the Democrat party is in favor of open borders, high illegal immigration, cultural fracturing of America, drugs, crime, cheap labor driving down wages, and possibly most importantly, more voters to their payroll to ensure power over the people. In other worlds, that's not nice.


Can you define for us exactly what Trump wants his 5.6 billion dollars for?
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:15 am

2122M wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
salttee wrote:
Once again you try to slip one by with a false claim. The democrats never advocated a "wall" as Trump is trying to sell. Not even close, there is no comparison. And you leave no support for your claim anyway, so your just throwing out a Tu Quoque fallacy, aka whataboutism.


So the only dispute in Washington is what style of physcial barrier, right?

Half of America can see right through that weak smokescreen. Let's stop the lame excuses. Just admit that the Democrat party is in favor of open borders, high illegal immigration, cultural fracturing of America, drugs, crime, cheap labor driving down wages, and possibly most importantly, more voters to their payroll to ensure power over the people. In other worlds, that's not nice.


Can you define for us exactly what Trump wants his 5.6 billion dollars for?

As much wall as possible. Next question.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:19 am

MSPNWA wrote:
cheap labor driving down wages

Question: have Trump and Nunes' family replaced their undocumented employees with 'murricans yet? When does agriculture go full e-verify?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:32 am

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:

So the only dispute in Washington is what style of physcial barrier, right?

Half of America can see right through that weak smokescreen. Let's stop the lame excuses. Just admit that the Democrat party is in favor of open borders, high illegal immigration, cultural fracturing of America, drugs, crime, cheap labor driving down wages, and possibly most importantly, more voters to their payroll to ensure power over the people. In other worlds, that's not nice.


Can you define for us exactly what Trump wants his 5.6 billion dollars for?

As much wall as possible. Next question.


So its not about comprehensive border secutiy. Its just about his pointless wall. Pointless because we have wallas at the high risk area already. Got it. Can anyone on the right (and that includes you VTK) explain why he didn’t do a thing about this when he controlled both houses? Why is it a national emergency now even though crossings are down in the las 2 years? Why did he turn down a compromise before the last congress broke?

I don’t think he wants a wall, I think he wants a distraction and a battle.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:36 am

Wrong. It’s a piece of a comprehensive plan. You asked what the money for a wall was for. The answer is a wall. It’s not as if that is all Trump is spending on border security. But you knew that.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:37 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Wrong. It’s a piece of a comprehensive plan. You asked what the money for a wall was for. The answer is a wall. It’s not as if that is all Trump is spending on border security. But you knew that.


Really, Whats the rest of the plan? He hasn’t been clear, maybe you can enlighten us? He just keeps talking about this big beautiful wall...
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:48 am

2122M wrote:
There is a difference between fencing in a high traffic area that is combined with regular patrols and a giant wall across no mans land.

So true. Which is why people complaining about a wall along the entirety of the border are idiots.

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.

So really the Democrats are shutting government because they want a fence rather than a wall. People aren’t getting paid for that stupid reason alone.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
THS214
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:01 am

VTKillarney wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Great, so bring Trump back to negotiate for a barrier as the Dems were proposing. Think he can or will do that?
No more "the wall".
Tugg


Dahlia Lithwick, whose legal writings I almost always enjoy reading, has a great take on his Monday night infomercial:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... ilure.html

As a moderate, I seek out sources from both sides. The left leaning opinion pieces generally say that Trump did a bad job. The right leaning pieces generally say that Trump did a good job. That probably means that his speech wasn’t a game changer, which happened to be my immediate reaction.

On the other hand, a LOT of sources from the left have been critical of the rebuttal. Not all, but a lot.


I don't have a dog in this fight but if you are moderate then I'm God
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:15 am

Trump's real wall that he wants to build and has built.

Image
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:26 am

What stopped Trump from getting his wall during the first two years when the GOP controlled every branch of government?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:28 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
What stopped Trump from getting his wall during the first two years when the GOP controlled every branch of government?

60 votes in the Senate. We’ve been over this. Many times.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:31 am

VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
What stopped Trump from getting his wall during the first two years when the GOP controlled every branch of government?

60 votes in the Senate. We’ve been over this. Many times.

Oh well. Too bad so sad.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:38 am

VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
What stopped Trump from getting his wall during the first two years when the GOP controlled every branch of government?

60 votes in the Senate. We’ve been over this. Many times.


Still could have shut down the government for it. He didn’t have the votes then, he doesn’t now. What’s the difference?
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:45 am

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
What stopped Trump from getting his wall during the first two years when the GOP controlled every branch of government?

60 votes in the Senate. We’ve been over this. Many times.


Still could have shut down the government for it. He didn’t have the votes then, he doesn’t now. What’s the difference?

As far as I can tell the only difference is Coulter/Limbaugh/Hannity raised a stink this time, and here we are.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:52 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
60 votes in the Senate. We’ve been over this. Many times.


Still could have shut down the government for it. He didn’t have the votes then, he doesn’t now. What’s the difference?

As far as I can tell the only difference is Coulter/Limbaugh/Hannity raised a stink this time, and here we are.


I think the difference is the makeup of the house...
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:07 am

2122M wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
2122M wrote:

Still could have shut down the government for it. He didn’t have the votes then, he doesn’t now. What’s the difference?

As far as I can tell the only difference is Coulter/Limbaugh/Hannity raised a stink this time, and here we are.


I think the difference is the makeup of the house...

I don't know that that even factored into his binary thought process. He was willing to sign off until the right wing loons told him he'd look weak on the boob tube, which for Trump is a deadly sin.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
A3801000
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:30 am

What are you even discussing here? Illegal immigration is at a 45 year low. Illegal immigrants arrive at airports and overstay visa, they don't come by foot. The people arriving by foot, enter the USA and claim asylum, perfectly legal and regulated. Drugs are entering the USA by land and sea. trucks mostly.
This whole story is BS. Just this caricature of a president trying to divert attention.
A wall would not change anything. Nothing. Zero. Zilch.
Don't like the facts? Too bad.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:44 am

A3801000 wrote:
A wall would not change anything. Nothing. Zero. Zilch.

If you say it enough times does it miraculously become true?

A wall will change things. You may not believe that it will change enough, but to say that it will not change a thing is disingenuous.

Heck, I’m old enough to remember when Democrats were in favor of barriers along the border, which means that I’m at least two years old.
 
A3801000
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:56 am

VTKillarney wrote:
A3801000 wrote:
A wall would not change anything. Nothing. Zero. Zilch.

If you say it enough times does it miraculously become true?

A wall will change things. You may not believe that it will change enough, but to say that it will not change a thing is disingenuous.

Heck, I’m old enough to remember when Democrats were in favor of barriers along the border, which means that I’m at least two years old.


So? What will change? Tell us what this wall will do.
 
af773atmsp
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:25 am

Tunnels. Catapults. Cars. Planes. Boats. All of these inventions make a wall useless.

And that's all I'm going to say on this matter.
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
SY,DL,FI,FL,BA,EI,NW,MG,DY,EZY,F9,WN,SN,ET,SK
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DL717
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:26 am

I’m sure peoples commutes are better for now.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
salttee
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:28 am

af773atmsp wrote:
Tunnels. Catapults. Cars. Planes. Boats. All of these inventions make a wall useless.

And that's all I'm going to say on this matter.
And ladders. (with ropes for the other side)
 
alfa164
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:28 am

salttee wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Semantics won’t save you. Democrats wanted a barrier. They were so proud of voting for them. They loved them!

This is another of your many oblique mischaracterizations that a person conversing with you has to decide whether to ignore or to challenge. If it is ignored, you score a victory or at least you get to throw an insult and get away with it. If it is challenged, you have again succeeded in changing the subject at an opportune time for yourself.
The subject being discussed before you began your slipsliding, was your assertion in post 581, two pages ago.
VTKillarney wrote:
Every legitimate study I have seen agrees that a wall is effective if deployed strategically. Even the Democrats have consistently believed this - and quite vocally so.
The one argument that people tend to use to counter this is that a wall diverts crossings to more difficult areas. The problem with this argument is that the evidence suggests that a smaller subset of people are willing to take on that additional risk. They also neglect to mention that it makes it easier to deploy our forces if people are funneled into fewer areas.

casinterest challenged you, so you threw out a link and misrepresented what was said in your own link - and casinterest challenged you on that. I guess you wore him out and he gave up. But you still haven't backed up your claim in post 581 or conceded that you were just making things up. Now you're in slipsliding mode trying to change the subject and throwing insults to boot. Do you have any respect for ethics? Do you have a spine?

Why are you here?


Some people show up on sites like this, bearing no facts but just seeking to argue, because they enjoy the attention. Just sayin'...

;)

A3801000 wrote:
What are you even discussing here? Illegal immigration is at a 45 year low. Illegal immigrants arrive at airports and overstay visa, they don't come by foot. The people arriving by foot, enter the USA and claim asylum, perfectly legal and regulated. Drugs are entering the USA by land and sea. trucks mostly.
This whole story is BS. Just this caricature of a president trying to divert attention. A wall would not change anything. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Don't like the facts? Too bad.


:checkmark: The experts along the border - the officials who deal with the border every day - agree.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/presi ... li=BBnb7Kz
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1680
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:39 am

MSPNWA wrote:
salttee wrote:
Once again you try to slip one by with a false claim. The democrats never advocated a "wall" as Trump is trying to sell. Not even close, there is no comparison. And you leave no support for your claim anyway, so your just throwing out a Tu Quoque fallacy, aka whataboutism.


So the only dispute in Washington is what style of physcial barrier, right?

Half of America can see right through that weak smokescreen. Let's stop the lame excuses. Just admit that the Democrat party is in favor of open borders, high illegal immigration, cultural fracturing of America, drugs, crime, cheap labor driving down wages, and possibly most importantly, more voters to their payroll to ensure power over the people. In other worlds, that's not nice.


I hear the right wing always talk about "open borders". WTF does that mean?
 
salttee
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:43 am

CaliAtenza wrote:
I hear the right wing always talk about "open borders". WTF does that mean?

When the right wingers aren't issuing innuendo, they generally spew hyperbole.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:46 am

CaliAtenza wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
salttee wrote:
Once again you try to slip one by with a false claim. The democrats never advocated a "wall" as Trump is trying to sell. Not even close, there is no comparison. And you leave no support for your claim anyway, so your just throwing out a Tu Quoque fallacy, aka whataboutism.


So the only dispute in Washington is what style of physcial barrier, right?

Half of America can see right through that weak smokescreen. Let's stop the lame excuses. Just admit that the Democrat party is in favor of open borders, high illegal immigration, cultural fracturing of America, drugs, crime, cheap labor driving down wages, and possibly most importantly, more voters to their payroll to ensure power over the people. In other worlds, that's not nice.


I hear the right wing always talk about "open borders". WTF does that mean?


Image

They crave more competition in the brick & mortar book store chain business, duh! They are protesting a market dominated by Barnes & Noble. They support democrats in their quest to reopen Borders book stores across the US.

They feel so misunderstood.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:03 am

casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Of what? We have declining illegal immigration. Why is it suddenly a Crisis?

I don't think that you understand the word that I used.


Proportionality is math related. I don't think you get it.


Sometimes some math may be meth related?

Talk about studies an math:

https://www.nber.org/papers/w25267?utm_ ... urce=ntwg2

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
ltbewr
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:21 am

Another problem from the partial shutdown is that certain unpaid Federal workers, for example FBI agents and Federal prison guards, is that debt can be used against them in obtaining and retaining security clearances and their jobs in the future.
https://www.alternet.org/2019/01/the-bu ... ial-brink/

The irony is that Trump's debts and financial issues with actual risks of corruption from it couldn't disqualify him from becoming President or keep his job as it would an FBI agent. Of course if not getting paid, or no money to continue operations how many FBI investigations will be ruined, criminals getting away with serious crimes, perhaps missing a terror attack or act of espionage by China or Russia. For Federal prison guards, maybe a few will give in for money they need and sneak in cellphones, drugs and other counterban.
 
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Jouhou
Posts: 1966
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:49 am

ltbewr wrote:
Another problem from the partial shutdown is that certain unpaid Federal workers, for example FBI agents and Federal prison guards, is that debt can be used against them in obtaining and retaining security clearances and their jobs in the future.
https://www.alternet.org/2019/01/the-bu ... ial-brink/

The irony is that Trump's debts and financial issues with actual risks of corruption from it couldn't disqualify him from becoming President or keep his job as it would an FBI agent. Of course if not getting paid, or no money to continue operations how many FBI investigations will be ruined, criminals getting away with serious crimes, perhaps missing a terror attack or act of espionage by China or Russia. For Federal prison guards, maybe a few will give in for money they need and sneak in cellphones, drugs and other counterban.


Trump would never be able to get a security clearance...

Fortunately, when you're president you can just bypass those pesky security rules! We sure did a good job creating a system that couldn't be exploited!
 
A3801000
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:59 pm

MIA is closing Terminal G because of staff shortage due to shutdown.

Image
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:17 pm

You didn't provide any context with that image. Are any flights being cancelled? If not, then it seems like a smart move.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:18 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Another problem from the partial shutdown is that certain unpaid Federal workers, for example FBI agents and Federal prison guards, is that debt can be used against them in obtaining and retaining security clearances and their jobs in the future.
https://www.alternet.org/2019/01/the-bu ... ial-brink/

The irony is that Trump's debts and financial issues with actual risks of corruption from it couldn't disqualify him from becoming President or keep his job as it would an FBI agent. Of course if not getting paid, or no money to continue operations how many FBI investigations will be ruined, criminals getting away with serious crimes, perhaps missing a terror attack or act of espionage by China or Russia. For Federal prison guards, maybe a few will give in for money they need and sneak in cellphones, drugs and other counterban.


It won't be an issue. It is very obvious what the cause and effect and mitigating issue is. When adjudicating security clearances they look for patterns. Missing a payment or two due to a government shutdown would be something documented by their investigator (if they even inquired about it) and handled without concern.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:19 pm

Okay, I found the context. This "crisis" will result in... wait for it... the relocation of 12 flights to adjoining terminals.

Yawn.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/politics ... index.html
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:33 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Okay, I found the context. This "crisis" will result in... wait for it... the relocation of 12 flights to adjoining terminals.

Yawn.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/politics ... index.html


We all know you don't care about the federal workers not getting paid that led to this. This may be a 'yawn' to you, but like many conservatives you are lacking any sense of empathy, so you don't care that its much more than 'yawn' to those who are actually affected. I still can't believe you want Trump to continue withholding paychecks for these folks when he doesn't even have a plan of how to spend the money he wants.....
 
A3801000
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:38 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
You didn't provide any context with that image. Are any flights being cancelled? If not, then it seems like a smart move.


I still wait for you, but I guess you know you've got nothing factual to tell.


A3801000 wrote:

So? What will change? Tell us what this wall will do.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:39 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Trump: “If I agree to re-open government will you agree to at least talk with no other commitment except my own commitment for a wall?

Pelosi: “No.”

It’s hard for me to come up with a scenario where this does not backfire for Pelosi.

Fixed that for you.

Besides, the scenario you proposed is the one Democrats have insisted: let's reopen the government while we discuss border security. Trump is the one saying "I won't open it until you agree to find my wall"...which I'm still waiting for a rebuttal because he's insisted that it's being paid for already, and has been built.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:50 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Read what I’ve actually written not what you WANT me to have said.


I don't think you even know what you've said. You seem to disagree with Trump's desire for a complete border wall and only want limited barriers in high need areas. But you think Trump was right to turn down the compromise presented to him earlier that would give him some wall? But its the dems fault this shutdown continues? You care about the folks not getting paid but at the same time try to minimize and even mock any noted effects of the shutdown?

Maybe you're right, maybe the conversation has gone on too long and things have gotten all twisted up. So tell us all Mr. Moderate, how do you really feel about this:

1. Should Trump have taken the compromise his own party gave him in December?
2. Is there a true national emergency now (and if so why wasn't there one a year ago, or two years ago?)
3. Should Trump continue to withhold pay from 800,000 federal workers over this?
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:58 pm

Respectfully, all of those questions have been addressed by me already.

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