2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:02 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Respectfully, all of those questions have been addressed by me already.


Sure thing...

Its a lot easier to shoot down other people ideas and opinions that stand up for your own, isn't it?
 
A3801000
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:02 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Respectfully, all of those questions have been addressed by me already.


A3801000 wrote:

So? What will change? Tell us what this wall will do.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:59 pm

Trump’s 300+ mile plan to build in strategic locations IS on the table. Many of those miles aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.
 
A3801000
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:02 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s 300+ mile plan to build in strategic locations IS on the table. Many of those miles aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.


Where is this plan about the border wall for 5.6 billion? Show us please.
 
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Tugger
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:03 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s 300+ mile plan IS on the table. Many of those movies les aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

And you are claiming that Trump and the Republican's are not playing politics? And that it's not about optics for Trump in particular?

Also exactly what is Trumps "300 mile plan"? Where are the barriers to go? What does the plan do to include normal maintenance and replacement of current barriers (but not with the stupid 30 foot monstrosities he sampled last year - in fact none of those have been approved etc.). What is the plan?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:04 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s 300+ mile plan to build in strategic locations IS on the table. Many of those miles aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.


You can only start calling it 'Trump's plan" when Trump own that plan. As of now, it's not 'Trump's Plan', its 'DHS's best guess'.

2nd, both chambers agreed to partial funding in December. Trump said no. And it's the dems that are disagreeable?
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:05 pm

Tugger wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s 300+ mile plan IS on the table. Many of those movies les aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

And you are claiming that Trump and the Republican's are not playing politics? And that it's not about optics for Trump in particular?

Also exactly what is Trumps "300 mile plan"? Where are the barriers to go? What does the plan do to include normal maintenance and replacement of current barriers (but not with the stupid 30 foot monstrosities he sampled last year - in fact none of those have been approved etc.). What is the plan?

Tugg

The exact locations have been posted here twice already.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:07 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s 300+ mile plan to build in strategic locations IS on the table. Many of those miles aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.


You can only start calling it 'Trump's plan" when Trump own that plan. As of now, it's not 'Trump's Plan', its 'DHS's best guess'.

2nd, both chambers agreed to partial funding in December. Trump said no. And it's the dems that are disagreeable?

Well yes, of course. As a moderate you can't support Trump carrying through with his original commitment to sign legislation without the wall funding. As a moderate it is obvious that optics and politics had nothing to do with his change of heart.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:07 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Tugger wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s 300+ mile plan IS on the table. Many of those movies les aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

And you are claiming that Trump and the Republican's are not playing politics? And that it's not about optics for Trump in particular?

Also exactly what is Trumps "300 mile plan"? Where are the barriers to go? What does the plan do to include normal maintenance and replacement of current barriers (but not with the stupid 30 foot monstrosities he sampled last year - in fact none of those have been approved etc.). What is the plan?

Tugg

The exact locations have been posted here twice already.


DHS conjecture is not the same as Trump's plan.
 
A3801000
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:09 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Tugger wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s 300+ mile plan IS on the table. Many of those movies les aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

And you are claiming that Trump and the Republican's are not playing politics? And that it's not about optics for Trump in particular?

Also exactly what is Trumps "300 mile plan"? Where are the barriers to go? What does the plan do to include normal maintenance and replacement of current barriers (but not with the stupid 30 foot monstrosities he sampled last year - in fact none of those have been approved etc.). What is the plan?

Tugg

The exact locations have been posted here twice already.


You lied about having written your reasons for the wall and now we are supposed to believe that? Show us, liar.
 
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Tugger
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:11 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Tugger wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Trump’s 300+ mile plan IS on the table. Many of those movies les aren’t even new. And yet the Democrats won’t agree to it. So, no, I’m not sure that they would agree to strategic walls along the border, even if two years ago they had.

The Democrats are playing politics. This is all about optics for them.

And you are claiming that Trump and the Republican's are not playing politics? And that it's not about optics for Trump in particular?

Also exactly what is Trumps "300 mile plan"? Where are the barriers to go? What does the plan do to include normal maintenance and replacement of current barriers (but not with the stupid 30 foot monstrosities he sampled last year - in fact none of those have been approved etc.). What is the plan?

Tugg

The exact locations have been posted here twice already.

Great, where? I am not wasting my time going through every page for it just now. But I understand if you don't want to just post it again since you having been doing so ad nauseum. Even if it is easy since you know where it is, it is much easier to make someone hunt through the entire thread for it.

As a moderate I often repost things for people that I have already posted because I want to be helpful and support my position quickly and not just look argumentative.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:22 pm

I would if I wasn’t accessing via my smartphone.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:54 pm

More effects of the shutdown . Wall street is starting to get nervous.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/the-3-w ... treet.html
"
Of particular concern is what will happen to lower-income people and tax refunds. Macquarie noted the potential effect on retailers:

“Today is a primer in case tax refunds are delayed despite what the White House has to say about tax refund precedent when the government is shutdown. If the government remains shut down going into earnings — we may hear some conservative commentary about [quarter-to-date] comp trends from the retailers. Ultimately, the government will reopen and checks will be sent out but it may happen later in the first quarter of 2019.”"
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:54 pm

For the third time, Tugg:

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:56 pm

casinterest wrote:
More effects of the shutdown . Wall street is starting to get nervous.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/the-3-w ... treet.html
"
Of particular concern is what will happen to lower-income people and tax refunds. Macquarie noted the potential effect on retailers:

“Today is a primer in case tax refunds are delayed despite what the White House has to say about tax refund precedent when the government is shutdown. If the government remains shut down going into earnings — we may hear some conservative commentary about [quarter-to-date] comp trends from the retailers. Ultimately, the government will reopen and checks will be sent out but it may happen later in the first quarter of 2019.”"

All over an additional 150 miles of barrier that the Democrats have previously supported.
 
A3801000
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:58 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
For the third time, Tugg:

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.



Did your supervisor in the St. Petersburg Troll factory make you look that up on the DHS page?

You never posted this before ever, contrary to what you wrote before.

And what will those miles of wall accomplish?

Contrary to what you wrote earlier you never mentioned that.

Go, get your supervisor to look up some reasons and come back to us.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:00 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
For the third time, Tugg:

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.


Trump has not been specific about this and DHS is just guessing. quit posting this blatant lie.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:00 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
More effects of the shutdown . Wall street is starting to get nervous.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/the-3-w ... treet.html
"
Of particular concern is what will happen to lower-income people and tax refunds. Macquarie noted the potential effect on retailers:

“Today is a primer in case tax refunds are delayed despite what the White House has to say about tax refund precedent when the government is shutdown. If the government remains shut down going into earnings — we may hear some conservative commentary about [quarter-to-date] comp trends from the retailers. Ultimately, the government will reopen and checks will be sent out but it may happen later in the first quarter of 2019.”"

All over an additional 150 miles of barrier that the Democrats have previously supported.


All over the fact that the GOP is on a power trip and is no longer an honorable American organization. Just a bunch of racist liars looking to spend money and stick it to hard working Americans.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:05 pm

https://qz.com/1520651/border-patrol-ag ... wont-work/

The border patrol showed off all those drugs and guns yesterday.

Most of it was confiscated from the legal points of entry, and a tunnell under the wall.

https://qz.com/1520651/border-patrol-ag ... wont-work/

How is thsis wall going to help us?

Image
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:16 pm

A3801000 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
For the third time, Tugg:

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.


You never posted this before ever, contrary to what you wrote before.


To set the record straight, this was indeed posted yesterday at 21:48.

Link here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1412067&p=20997843&hilit=centro#p20997843
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:20 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
A3801000 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
For the third time, Tugg:

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.


You never posted this before ever, contrary to what you wrote before.


To set the record straight, this was posted yesterday at 21:48.

Link here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1412067&p=20997843&hilit=centro#p20997843


The post is a lie anyway, so I don't know why you are really trying to drive it home. You still have no idea what Trump's plan is, all you have are the DHS guesses posted above. Its pretty flimsy evidence to use to endorse Trump's 'negotiating tactic' of shutting down the government when he doesn't get his way.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:22 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
A3801000 wrote:

You never posted this before ever, contrary to what you wrote before.


To set the record straight, this was posted yesterday at 21:48.

Link here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1412067&p=20997843&hilit=centro#p20997843


The post is a lie anyway, so I don't know why you are really trying to drive it home. You still have no idea what Trump's plan is, all you have are the DHS guesses posted above. Its pretty flimsy evidence to use to endorse Trump's 'negotiating tactic' of shutting down the government when he doesn't get his way.

Let me highlight the part that you appear to be missing.

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.

You can also see the primary source here:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/12/12/walls-work

What’s next you might ask? When combined with the funds provided in FY 2017 and FY 2018, if funded at $5B in FY 2019 DHS expects to construct more than 330 miles of border wall in the U.S. Border Patrol’s highest priority locations across the Southwest border.

DHS is positioned to construct 215 miles of Border Patrol’s highest priority border wall miles including:

~5 miles in San Diego Sector in California
~14 miles in El Centro Sector in California
~27 miles in Yuma Sector in Arizona
~9 miles in El Paso Sector in New Mexico
~55 miles in Laredo Sector in Texas
~104 miles in Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas
Last edited by VTKillarney on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:23 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:

To set the record straight, this was posted yesterday at 21:48.

Link here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1412067&p=20997843&hilit=centro#p20997843


The post is a lie anyway, so I don't know why you are really trying to drive it home. You still have no idea what Trump's plan is, all you have are the DHS guesses posted above. Its pretty flimsy evidence to use to endorse Trump's 'negotiating tactic' of shutting down the government when he doesn't get his way.

Let me highlight the part that you appear to be missing.

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.


Thank you for highlighting the part of your post that is the lie. When has Trump been clear about that?
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:25 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:

The post is a lie anyway, so I don't know why you are really trying to drive it home. You still have no idea what Trump's plan is, all you have are the DHS guesses posted above. Its pretty flimsy evidence to use to endorse Trump's 'negotiating tactic' of shutting down the government when he doesn't get his way.

Let me highlight the part that you appear to be missing.

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.


Thank you for highlighting the part of your post that is the lie. When has Trump been clear about that?

You can see the primary source here:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/12/12/walls-work

What’s next you might ask? When combined with the funds provided in FY 2017 and FY 2018, if funded at $5B in FY 2019 DHS expects to construct more than 330 miles of border wall in the U.S. Border Patrol’s highest priority locations across the Southwest border.

DHS is positioned to construct 215 miles of Border Patrol’s highest priority border wall miles including:

~5 miles in San Diego Sector in California
~14 miles in El Centro Sector in California
~27 miles in Yuma Sector in Arizona
~9 miles in El Paso Sector in New Mexico
~55 miles in Laredo Sector in Texas
~104 miles in Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas


If you have any evidence that Trump has told DHS to alter this plan I am all ears. It's interesting that your objection now is merely that Trump could have been a better communicator - not over the plan itself.

Look, I get that this strategic placement of a barrier makes the liberal narrative fall apart. It has got to be painful to realize that Schumer and Pelosi have chosen to shut down government over something that they supported just two years ago. I share that pain. When you play with people's lives, not over your beliefs but over your ego, it's a true shame.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:30 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:

To set the record straight, this was posted yesterday at 21:48.

Link here: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... #p20997843


The post is a lie anyway, so I don't know why you are really trying to drive it home. You still have no idea what Trump's plan is, all you have are the DHS guesses posted above. Its pretty flimsy evidence to use to endorse Trump's 'negotiating tactic' of shutting down the government when he doesn't get his way.

Let me highlight the part that you appear to be missing.

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.

You can also see the primary source here:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/12/12/walls-work

What’s next you might ask? When combined with the funds provided in FY 2017 and FY 2018, if funded at $5B in FY 2019 DHS expects to construct more than 330 miles of border wall in the U.S. Border Patrol’s highest priority locations across the Southwest border.

DHS is positioned to construct 215 miles of Border Patrol’s highest priority border wall miles including:

~5 miles in San Diego Sector in California
~14 miles in El Centro Sector in California
~27 miles in Yuma Sector in Arizona
~9 miles in El Paso Sector in New Mexico
~55 miles in Laredo Sector in Texas
~104 miles in Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas


How will that Rio Grande Valley wall help? There is already a river there , Laredo which has fewer walls also has fewer crossings. This makes no sense how the walls will help.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/68366269 ... ta-tell-us
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:33 pm

casinterest wrote:
How will that Rio Grande Valley wall help? There is already a river there , Laredo which has fewer walls also has fewer crossings. This makes no sense how the walls will help.

The best answer I can give you is that the professionals at the Department of Homeland Security believe that it will - as part of an overall plan of securing our borders. Nobody has suggested that the wall is the ONLY plan. That wold be a straw man.

I'm told by liberals that government is good at governing, and I am trusting that liberal viewpoint in this situation. If you have evidence that they lack professional knowledge, I am all ears. That's a rather extraordinary claim, however.

You might not be too familiar with the Rio Grande. It's not exactly a formidable river to cross.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:38 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Let me highlight the part that you appear to be missing.

Trump and DHS are very specific about where the wall will be built if he gets his $5.6 billion. There would be five miles in the San Diego Sector, 14 miles in the El Centro Sector, 27 miles in the Yuma Sector, 9 miles in the El Paso Sector, 55 miles in the Laredo Sector in Texas, and 104 miles in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas. In all, counting work that is done, being done, and planned, the administration would build 330 miles of new barrier, 150 in areas with no barrier today.


Thank you for highlighting the part of your post that is the lie. When has Trump been clear about that?

You can see the primary source here:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/12/12/walls-work

What’s next you might ask? When combined with the funds provided in FY 2017 and FY 2018, if funded at $5B in FY 2019 DHS expects to construct more than 330 miles of border wall in the U.S. Border Patrol’s highest priority locations across the Southwest border.

DHS is positioned to construct 215 miles of Border Patrol’s highest priority border wall miles including:

~5 miles in San Diego Sector in California
~14 miles in El Centro Sector in California
~27 miles in Yuma Sector in Arizona
~9 miles in El Paso Sector in New Mexico
~55 miles in Laredo Sector in Texas
~104 miles in Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas


If you have any evidence that Trump has told DHS to alter this plan I am all ears. It's interesting that your objection now is merely that Trump could have been a better communicator - not over the plan itself.

Look, I get that this strategic placement of a barrier makes the liberal narrative fall apart. It has got to be painful to realize that Schumer and Pelosi have chosen to shut down government over something that they supported just two years ago. I share that pain. When you play with people's lives, not over your beliefs but over your ego, it's a true shame.


Trump asked for 18-20 BIllion at the beginning of the year, and agreed in principal to 1.8 Billion as late as December. Now he wants 5.6 Billion. You think any of this is his plan? DHS is just estimating what they could do with this particular arbitrary amount.

And you can't spin this as anything other than Trump's shutdown. He turned down the compromise and is now withholding paychecks from Air Traffic Controllers, TSA Agents and many many more simply because he can't deal with any disagreement.

Lets not forget that you full heartedly support him approaching a negation by keeping money out of the pockets of 800,000 federal employees.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:40 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
How will that Rio Grande Valley wall help? There is already a river there , Laredo which has fewer walls also has fewer crossings. This makes no sense how the walls will help.

The best answer I can give you is that the professionals at the Department of Homeland Security believe that it will - as part of an overall plan of securing our borders. Nobody has suggested that the wall is the ONLY plan. That wold be a straw man.

I'm told by liberals that government is good at governing, and I am trusting that liberal viewpoint in this situation. If you have evidence that they lack professional knowledge, I am all ears. That's a rather extraordinary claim, however.

You might not be too familiar with the Rio Grande. It's not exactly a formidable river to cross.


It is a certain times of the year, but the issue is that if it isn't formidable, why isn't Laredo seeing more crossings? There is a lot less wall there.

That page I linked also highlights intersting facts. More than half of the current illegals, are showing up legally and overstaying their visa. Why are we putting funding into a wall at a declining point of entry?
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:42 pm

2122M wrote:
Trump asked for 18-20 BIllion at the beginning of the year, and agreed in principal to 1.8 Billion as late as December. No he wants 5.6 Billion. You think any of this is his plan?

I know three things. (1) Trump is asking for $5.6 billion. (2) We know exactly how that $5.6 billion will be spent. (3) Strategic placement of barriers, such as this, is something that Democrats have supported.

At the end of the day, Pelosi and Schumer won't agree to something that they have gone on record supporting. It's their shutdown now. And I get it. That's a painful thing to come to terms with if you are a liberal.

My opinion would be very different if Trump was asking for $20 billion. But he's clearly been willing to compromise.
 
alfa164
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:44 pm

2122M wrote:
Trump asked for 18-20 BIllion at the beginning of the year, and agreed in principal to 1.8 Billion as late as December. Now he wants 5.6 Billion. You think any of this is his plan? DHS is just estimating what they could do with this particular arbitrary amount. And you can't spin this as anything other than Trump's shutdown. He turned down the compromise and is now withholding paychecks from Air Traffic Controllers, TSA Agents and many many more simply because he can't deal with any disagreement. Lets not forget that you full heartedly support him approaching a negation by keeping money out of the pockets of 800,000 federal employees.


https://www.politico.com/gallery/2019/0 ... 64?slide=0

And despite out little trollster's claim that Democrats are to blame, the American public clearly lays the shutdown on Trump's shoulders:

http://fortune.com/2019/01/09/trump-bor ... 2019-poll/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/tr ... lame-game/

It is time to stop feeding the troll...

;)
Last edited by alfa164 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:47 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
Trump asked for 18-20 BIllion at the beginning of the year, and agreed in principal to 1.8 Billion as late as December. No he wants 5.6 Billion. You think any of this is his plan?

I know three things. (1) Trump is asking for $5.6 billion. (2) We know exactly how that $5.6 billion will be spent. (3) Strategic placement of barriers, such as this, is something that Democrats have supported.

At the end of the day, Pelosi and Schumer won't agree to something that they have gone on record supporting. It's their shutdown now. And I get it. That's a painful thing to come to terms with if you are a liberal.

My opinion would be very different if Trump was asking for $20 billion. But he's clearly been willing to compromise.


Here's an actual, real quote from Trump: ''I am proud to shut down the government'". He's owning the shutdown, you should let him.

And again, you are allowed the think wall funding is appropriate and a wall plan is good. If you want the dems to cave now, than means you are endorsing Trump's shut-down negotiation tactic, and that is a terrible idea for America.

Let him hash it out like a real politician instead of inventing an emergency and freezing out government paychecks.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:48 pm

casinterest wrote:
It is a certain times of the year, but the issue is that if it isn't formidable, why isn't Laredo seeing more crossings? There is a lot less wall there.

DHS has identified Laredo as one of the top spots in need of a wall. That ought to speak for itself.

Keep in mind that Pelosi and Schumer were completely on board with strategic barrier placement just two years ago.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:50 pm

2122M wrote:
Here's an actual, real quote from Trump: ''I am proud to shut down the government'". He's owning the shutdown, you should let him.

Trump is bombastic. I don't think you have offered anything new here. But I also think that you are smart enough to peel below the first layer of the onion.

Here are the facts:
1) Trump's proposal is merely for limited, strategically placed barriers.
2) Schumer and Pelosi have gone on record supported barriers used in this fashion.
3) Trump has come down substantially in what he is requesting.
4) The Democrats haven't budged one bit.

It's the Democrats' shutdown now.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:52 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It is a certain times of the year, but the issue is that if it isn't formidable, why isn't Laredo seeing more crossings? There is a lot less wall there.

DHS has identified Laredo as one of the top spots in need of a wall. That ought to speak for itself.

Keep in mind that Pelosi and Schumer were completely on board with strategic barrier placement just two years ago.


Yes, but what about DACA?
Trump and his racist cohorts have tossed it aside.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:53 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It is a certain times of the year, but the issue is that if it isn't formidable, why isn't Laredo seeing more crossings? There is a lot less wall there.

DHS has identified Laredo as one of the top spots in need of a wall. That ought to speak for itself.

Keep in mind that Pelosi and Schumer were completely on board with strategic barrier placement just two years ago.


The DHS under Obama did not see the need for all this wall. which DHS was right?
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:55 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It is a certain times of the year, but the issue is that if it isn't formidable, why isn't Laredo seeing more crossings? There is a lot less wall there.

DHS has identified Laredo as one of the top spots in need of a wall. That ought to speak for itself.

Keep in mind that Pelosi and Schumer were completely on board with strategic barrier placement just two years ago.


The DHS under Obama did not see the need for all this wall. which DHS was right?

It's the same DHS. DHS under Obama most definitely believed in walls and fences placed in strategic locations. Chuck Schumer and Obama were on board. Massive amounts of fencing were built under Obama. Sadly, Obama tried to do things on the cheap and Trump's plan includes rebuilding a lot of that fencing and in some cases replacing it with a more formidable wall.

So literally nothing has changed - other than a bombastic President.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:56 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
Here's an actual, real quote from Trump: ''I am proud to shut down the government'". He's owning the shutdown, you should let him.

Trump is bombastic. I don't think you have offered anything new here. But I also think that you are smart enough to peel below the first layer of the onion.

Here are the facts:
1) Trump's proposal is merely for limited, strategically placed barriers.
2) Schumer and Pelosi have gone on record supported barriers used in this fashion.
3) Trump has come down substantially in what he is requesting.
4) The Democrats haven't budged one bit.

It's the Democrats' shutdown now.


You are entitled to your opinion about this, but most of America disagrees with you. Probably because most of America does not want to see shutting down the government become something presidents do when they don't get their way.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/tr ... lame-game/

Also, remember the Dems in the House are passing bills to open the government everyday that would allow the wall conversation to happen as a separate issue. Trumps and the GOPs in Senate say no. That is why your opinion that it is a Democratic shutdown is a minority opinion.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:00 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
DHS has identified Laredo as one of the top spots in need of a wall. That ought to speak for itself.

Keep in mind that Pelosi and Schumer were completely on board with strategic barrier placement just two years ago.


The DHS under Obama did not see the need for all this wall. which DHS was right?

It's the same DHS. DHS under Obama most definitely believed in walls and fences placed in strategic locations. Chuck Schumer and Obama were on board.
Literally nothing has changed - other than a bombastic President.


Wait, If Democrats wanted all the extra wall as you claim they did, and his DHS wanted all that wall, and the GOP wanted all that wall, why don't we have all that wall?
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:00 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
DHS has identified Laredo as one of the top spots in need of a wall. That ought to speak for itself.

Keep in mind that Pelosi and Schumer were completely on board with strategic barrier placement just two years ago.


The DHS under Obama did not see the need for all this wall. which DHS was right?

It's the same DHS. DHS under Obama most definitely believed in walls and fences placed in strategic locations. Chuck Schumer and Obama were on board. Massive amounts of fencing were built under Obama. Sadly, Obama tried to do things on the cheap and Trump's plan includes rebuilding a lot of that fencing and in some cases replacing it with a more formidable wall.

So literally nothing has changed - other than a bombastic President.


For what? We have declining illegal immigration from the border. Why not put the money to better use ?

Also in two weeks this shutdown will cost us more than the wall.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/11/shutdow ... -most.html

t will only take another two weeks for the shutdown to cost the economy more than $6 billion, according to S&P Global ratings.
The partial government shutdown enters its 21st day Friday, tying the record for longest lapse in federal funding.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
ExDubai
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:06 pm

Last edited by ExDubai on Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:08 pm

For the umpteenth time that is a strawman argument. The government spends lots of money on lots of things. They are going to spend a very very small fraction of their budget on this wall and they are going to spend money on other laudable projects. The deficit under Obama ballooned. But all of the sudden the Democrats are clutching their pearls over an expense that is a trivial percentage of the federal budget.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:09 pm

Unemployment will be up as Federal workers are filing for Unemployment.

.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/amid-sh ... ment-.html

few days ago, Will Kohler, a tax examiner for the IRS, filed for unemployment. He’s been out of work for three weeks now due to the gridlock in Washington, D.C.

“It seems like it’s going to go on forever,” Kohler, 55, said, from his house in Covington, Kentucky. “I need to eat.”

He has $500 left until his first unemployment check arrives.


Trump is destroying lives with his Shutdown.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:14 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
For the umpteenth time that is a strawman argument. The government spends lots of money on lots of things. They are going to spend a very very small fraction of their budget on this wall and they are going to spend money on other laudable projects. The deficit under Obama ballooned. But all of the sudden the Democrats are clutching their pearls over an expense that is a trivial percentage of the federal budget.



Does it not bother you that Trump has used bogus statistics to justify his wall?
Does it not bother you that Trump has staged walkouts in negotiations to justify his intransigence?
Does it not bother you that Trump only pushed the shutdown after being called out by a media outlet?
Does it not bother you that Trump doesn't recognize the bogus statistics and agree to let Congress sit down and hammer out the logistics and solutions without putting hard working Americans out of a Job?
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:15 pm

casinterest wrote:
Unemployment will be up as Federal workers are filing for Unemployment.

Won’t they have to pay their benefits back once they receive their back pay? Or are federal workers in line for a windfall? I can’t imagine that they are.

Update: I looked it up. They will have to pay back the benefits. So they will be cared for at no cost to the state insurance funds.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:18 pm

casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
For the umpteenth time that is a strawman argument. The government spends lots of money on lots of things. They are going to spend a very very small fraction of their budget on this wall and they are going to spend money on other laudable projects. The deficit under Obama ballooned. But all of the sudden the Democrats are clutching their pearls over an expense that is a trivial percentage of the federal budget.



Does it not bother you that Trump has used bogus statistics to justify his wall?
Does it not bother you that Trump has staged walkouts in negotiations to justify his intransigence?
Does it not bother you that Trump only pushed the shutdown after being called out by a media outlet?
Does it not bother you that Trump doesn't recognize the bogus statistics and agree to let Congress sit down and hammer out the logistics and solutions without putting hard working Americans out of a Job?

It bothers me that Pelosi and Schumer are shutting down government over something that they have already expressed their agreement to.

I trust DHS’ judgment just as I trusted their judgment under Obama. DHS has consistently seen the value of strategically placed barriers - and so have the Democrats. Trump has come WAY down on his request and is now asking for nothing more.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:25 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
For the umpteenth time that is a strawman argument. The government spends lots of money on lots of things. They are going to spend a very very small fraction of their budget on this wall and they are going to spend money on other laudable projects. The deficit under Obama ballooned. But all of the sudden the Democrats are clutching their pearls over an expense that is a trivial percentage of the federal budget.



Does it not bother you that Trump has used bogus statistics to justify his wall?
Does it not bother you that Trump has staged walkouts in negotiations to justify his intransigence?
Does it not bother you that Trump only pushed the shutdown after being called out by a media outlet?
Does it not bother you that Trump doesn't recognize the bogus statistics and agree to let Congress sit down and hammer out the logistics and solutions without putting hard working Americans out of a Job?

It bothers me that Pelosi and Schumer are shutting down government over something that they have already expressed their agreement to.

I trust DHS’ judgment just as I trusted their judgment under Obama. DHS has consistently seen the value of strategically placed barriers - and so have the Democrats. Trump has come WAY down on his request and is now asking for nothing more.


Pelosi and Shumer's chambers have Both Approved bills keeping the Government open. Only the Lying Trump and the backstabbing coward we know as McConnell are depriving Americans of their income.

Do you trust the Justice Department on DACA as well?

If so , let Congress work out the details. End this mindless shutdown caused by the lying racist Trump.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:28 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
For the umpteenth time that is a strawman argument. The government spends lots of money on lots of things. They are going to spend a very very small fraction of their budget on this wall and they are going to spend money on other laudable projects. The deficit under Obama ballooned. But all of the sudden the Democrats are clutching their pearls over an expense that is a trivial percentage of the federal budget.



Does it not bother you that Trump has used bogus statistics to justify his wall?
Does it not bother you that Trump has staged walkouts in negotiations to justify his intransigence?
Does it not bother you that Trump only pushed the shutdown after being called out by a media outlet?
Does it not bother you that Trump doesn't recognize the bogus statistics and agree to let Congress sit down and hammer out the logistics and solutions without putting hard working Americans out of a Job?

It bothers me that Pelosi and Schumer are shutting down government over something that they have already expressed their agreement to.

I trust DHS’ judgment just as I trusted their judgment under Obama. DHS has consistently seen the value of strategically placed barriers - and so have the Democrats. Trump has come WAY down on his request and is now asking for nothing more.


Lies lies and lies.

Janet Napolitano happily funded the fencing and barriers required in 2006 act. But that's done and dusted and dems have not been clamoring for more wall since then, have they?

They never expressed agreement to 5.6 billion dollars for Trump's vague and shifting wall vision.

It is Trump that agreed to a figure then reneged.I'd say agreeing to 1.8 Billion and then upping it to 5.6 IS asking for more, wouldn't you?

Its Trumps Shut down. He seems to think so anyway.

So many lies.....
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:30 pm

Good old CNN.

https://www.kusi.com/cnn-requests-kusi- ... all-works/

Interesting quote from the article:
“We have continuously been told by Border Patrol Agents that the barrier along the Southern border helps prevent illegal entries, drugs, and weapons from entering the United States, and the numbers prove it.”

Why don’t Democrats respect federal workers by listening to them?
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:34 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Good old CNN.

https://www.kusi.com/cnn-requests-kusi- ... all-works/

Interesting quote from the article:
“We have continuously been told by Border Patrol Agents that the barrier along the Southern border helps prevent illegal entries, drugs, and weapons from entering the United States, and the numbers prove it.”

Why don’t Democrats respect federal workers by listening to them?


As a moderate, did you seek out the opposing viewpoint in this situation?
Last edited by 2122M on Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:36 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Good old CNN.

https://www.kusi.com/cnn-requests-kusi- ... all-works/

Interesting quote from the article:
“We have continuously been told by Border Patrol Agents that the barrier along the Southern border helps prevent illegal entries, drugs, and weapons from entering the United States, and the numbers prove it.”

Why don’t Democrats respect federal workers by listening to them?


Oh, poor little snowflakes.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/4248 ... ts-on-wall

A CNN spokesperson pushed back on KUSI's claim on Friday, calling it a "non story" since the network ultimately didn't book any reporters from stations in the San Diego area.


"We called several local stations to book someone for a show. We didn’t end up booking any of them," says a CNN spokesperson in a statement to The Hill. "That happens many times every single day. We did, however, book a reporter from KUSI for a story on immigration and the border wall on CNN in November. This is a non story."
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