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Mortyman
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Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:59 am

Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

The deputy head of a Chinese military academy told an audience in Shenzhen last month that tensions in the South China Sea could be resolved by sinking a pair of U.S. aircraft carriers, reports said.

"What the United States fears the most is taking casualties," said Rear Admiral Lou Yuan, deputy head of the Chinese Academy of Military Sciences, news.com.au reported. He said sinking one carrier would kill 5,000 and sinking two would double that number.



https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... 791aa26e0f

https://www.foxnews.com/world/sinking-u ... se-admiral


Hopefully this is just a comment from a nutjob of a Chinese admiral and not actualy part of official Chinese thinking.

I can't imagine that the US will sit by and accept such a provocation should it God forbid happen.
 
stratclub
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:19 am

Ah, ya. To compensate, we should continue to move all of our manufacturing capability to China. As long as there are plenty of jobs in food service and government infrastructure America will be the mighty power it always thought it was. As a third world country with no manufacturing infrastructure, we will not be a threat to China.

China wold probably allow us to evacuate personnel on the two aircraft carriers before they sink them.
 
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:22 am

Yep, nothing would ease tension like sinking a US carrier. :rotfl:
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Dieuwer
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:34 am

Pearl Harbor 2.0. Sounds like a plan... :roll:
 
tommy1808
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:41 am

scbriml wrote:
Yep, nothing would ease tension like sinking a US carrier. :rotfl:


Well, he is right. Sink a US carrier and the consequent removal of the PRC will resolve the tensions in the South China Sea.

best regards
Thomas
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cpd
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:45 am

scbriml wrote:
Yep, nothing would ease tension like sinking a US carrier. :rotfl:



They will get smashed, simple as that. China may have a vast military, but the USA still can strike back in a way China will not be able to stop.
 
salttee
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:00 am

I wonder how high up on the targeting list the Three Gorges Dam would be in such a case.
China has a glass jaw IMO.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:41 am

Japan tried it. Didn't work.
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:28 am

Osama Bin Ladin killed 3,000 Americans and the American government went to war.

The admiral is off his rockers to think that America is scared to fight China if they sink those carriers.
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stratclub
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:05 pm

History does repeat it's self. Wait until our manufacturing capability gets so poor that our economy can't support our military infrastructure. Does the former U.S.S.R.'s current state of military readiness offer any clues? Many of the people from Chernobyl are still waiting for the Ukraine government to make good on basic human resources and some are moving back to Chernobyl even thought it is a death sentence because they have no other place to go.

Are you ready to support military readiness at the expense of basic human services like Russia and company do? With our diminishing economic health from moving manufacturing overseas, at some point we will have to choose. Military might or funding basic human services.

China didn't necessarily say right now. All they have to do is just wait as our economy and ability to support our military readiness degrades and they will be able to just walk in and overtake us.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:21 pm

How long before Pres. Trump tweets some dumb comment in reaction ?
The PRC government is trying to redevelop its empire, basically telling the USA to get lost and to become the power that controls Asia economically.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:24 pm

stratclub wrote:
History does repeat it's self. Wait until our manufacturing capability gets so poor that our economy can't support our military infrastructure.


The US has an Economic Complexity Index of 1.58 (that is the 9th highest), the PRC has 0.911. You can still pretty much make everything, even if you decide that it is more economical to buy elsewhere, the PRC can´t. You also have plenty of natural resources, that China isn´t exactly flush with and all of the eight more complex economies lack.
Producing microchips in china is, outside of really, really outdated processes, dependent on foreign deliveries.

Don´t get my wrong, i would block any technology export to or know how sharing with China w/o exceptions, but the situation is not nearly as bleak as you make it out.

best regards
Thomas
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KFLLCFII
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:36 pm

It really is early 1929 all over again...90 years later.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:02 pm

stratclub wrote:
Many of the people from Chernobyl are still waiting for the Ukraine government to make good on basic human resources and some are moving back to Chernobyl even thought it is a death sentence because they have no other place to go.

It is still illegal to move into the exclusion zone. And a total of... wait for it... 130 to 150 people are living there. Just about all of them are the last remnants of more than 1,000 mostly older women who moved back into the exclusion zone in the weeks and months after the disaster.

Hardly a crisis.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:23 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Yep, nothing would ease tension like sinking a US carrier. :rotfl:


Well, he is right. Sink a US carrier and the consequent removal of the PRC will resolve the tensions in the South China Sea.

best regards
Thomas


:white: :white:

Indeed more true than PRC thinking they can just kick US out of "their" territories.

On the other hand, the way the admiral said things tell you how other nations are thinking of US military right now - more or less coward-ish, and also going back towards isolationism. In the face of ANY aggression against US, though, all bets are off, no more handcuffing the military (Which is part of the reason why US can't "win" especially against guerrilla warfare, was Viet Cong and now Muslim extremist), and umm...Mutually Assured Destruction? And no, before somebody BS about "left" and "right", sink a US carrier and you can assure the most united US you'll see for awhile.

stratclub wrote:
Are you ready to support military readiness at the expense of basic human services like Russia and company do? With our diminishing economic health from moving manufacturing overseas, at some point we will have to choose. Military might or funding basic human services.


Sigh...
1. US still makes stuff. We simply move up the value chain and manufacture stuff that have higher return margin. The low level manufacturing (Textile, etc.) are moving away from China currently anyway.
2. The more something "high tech" is, the less human capital is require. It's why "high tech" industry, as quick growing as it is, simply can't provide full employment to the nation - they simply don't need as many people.
3. Which is also why the tariff is so idiotic - just for example, you really think US even at full capacity can produce enough steel just for the other US manufacturing sector (i.e. automotive)? No, which is why US import steel.
4. Then there's automation, aka nowaday 1 person can do the job of 3 people.
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:29 pm

I'm not sure what bothers me most about this. Or if I should be bothered by the fact that the deputy head of a military academy thinks this would be a good strategy. I mean on the one hand, that signifies he's an idiot, and that must trickle down into those at his academy. But on the other hand, maybe this thinking is more prevalent and they *might* just be crazy enough to do it. (doubt it)
 
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:11 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
But on the other hand, maybe this thinking is more prevalent and they *might* just be crazy enough to do it. (doubt it)


How can you doubt it? They will not just sink a carrier by itself, it would be part of something larger, Taiwan invasion or so, but China is clearly focused on having the tools to do just that: sink US carriers. At some point you either give up freedom of navigation or they sink you in "their" territorial waters.

Best regards
Thomas
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casinterest
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:38 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
But on the other hand, maybe this thinking is more prevalent and they *might* just be crazy enough to do it. (doubt it)


How can you doubt it? They will not just sink a carrier by itself, it would be part of something larger, Taiwan invasion or so, but China is clearly focused on having the tools to do just that: sink US carriers. At some point you either give up freedom of navigation or they sink you in "their" territorial waters.

Best regards
Thomas


Or we have WW3.

WW3 will not be a knife fight, and will be fought from angles unheard of before. The Space force that Trump announced and all these secret Air Force and NSA satellites will play a large part in what that war looks like.
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:49 pm

I guess they don't understand the US needs to project power in the Chinese sea and they shouldn't do it around the channel islands. Maybe it's a language problem. Or they look at the world map & still don't understand. We have to educate them. Apparently they are building 5-6 type 002 carriers. Being the Chinese they can do 10 or 20 too. fast, as we have seen, so let the fun begin..

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https://theaviationist.com/2018/05/17/chinese-launch-first-domestically-built-aircraft-carrier/
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:56 pm

casinterest wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
But on the other hand, maybe this thinking is more prevalent and they *might* just be crazy enough to do it. (doubt it)


How can you doubt it? They will not just sink a carrier by itself, it would be part of something larger, Taiwan invasion or so, but China is clearly focused on having the tools to do just that: sink US carriers. At some point you either give up freedom of navigation or they sink you in "their" territorial waters.

Best regards
Thomas


Or we have WW3.

WW3 will not be a knife fight, and will be fought from angles unheard of before. The Space force that Trump announced and all these secret Air Force and NSA satellites will play a large part in what that war looks like.


As the good ol' quote said (Attributed to Einstein, although it's not known whether he's really the one that said it):
"I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.".

Oh well, it's the Chinese military. Much like all the fenqing keyboard warriors, they "shoot airplane" (Look up the meaning if you don't know what I mean) all day long but can they even fight?
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marcelh
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:59 pm

casinterest wrote:
WW3 will not be a knife fight, and will be fought from angles unheard of before. The Space force that Trump announced and all these secret Air Force and NSA satellites will play a large part in what that war looks like.

A
And the Chinese just starting their computers and loggin in the US systems and press <Ctrl>+<Alr>+<Del>.
 
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:02 pm

keesje wrote:
I guess they don't understand the US needs to project power in the Chinese sea and they shouldn't do it around the channel islands. Maybe it's a language problem. Or they look at the world map & still don't understand. We have to educate them. Apparently they are building 5-6 type 002 carriers. Being the Chinese they can do 10 or 20 too. fast, as we have seen, so let the fun begin..

And they have the same vulnerability as any other carrier fleet. Sink a couple of their and the same thing happens.

The only way sinking of a carrier will/would be approved is if we are already at war.

Tugg
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:18 pm

I think the bigger picture is that the Chinese have a growing self confidence. They achieved an infrastructure in a time span unmatched in history, they own foreign industries, the US owns them 1.3 Trillion, Europe remains divided and Russian mind their own. But they'll never do crazy things. China is a bureaucracy, not led by a crazy dictator.
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:35 pm

keesje wrote:
I think the bigger picture is that the Chinese have a growing self confidence. They achieved an infrastructure in a time span unmatched in history, they own foreign industries, the US owns them 1.3 Trillion, Europe remains divided and Russian mind their own. But they'll never do crazy things. China is a bureaucracy, not led by a crazy dictator.

In my opinion China's biggest weakness is that any success must be "Chinese". Foreigners are not welcome, even those from China. Han only really, Uyghur, Tibetan, etc. need not apply. I of course could be wrong but I say this as I have not seen any foreigner or minority allowed to be in positions of significant power (other than region specific) in China's leadership or its industry. Some of this is due to just percentages (Han make up 90+% of the population) but I think there is more at issue.

True self confidence for China will be when any race can be there and succeed.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:51 pm

keesje wrote:
and Russian mind their own.

Where have you been the last 20 years?
 
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:16 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
keesje wrote:
and Russian mind their own.

Where have you been the last 20 years?


They see the Krim as their own
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ChrisKen
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:23 pm

keesje wrote:
I think the bigger picture is that the Chinese have a growing self confidence. They achieved an infrastructure in a time span unmatched in history, they own foreign industries, the US owns them 1.3 Trillion, Europe remains divided and Russian mind their own. But they'll never do crazy things. China is a bureaucracy, not led by a crazy dictator.

President Xi holds the more sway and influence than any Chairman since Mao and he's accrued it in a much shorter time. I wouldn't be so sure about the last sentence of your comment, as the years continue to roll on, there are plenty of signs that indicate we maybe drop the 'not' and replace 'crazy' with 'calculated'. Time will tell.
 
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:27 pm

marcelh wrote:
And the Chinese just starting their computers and loggin in the US systems and press <Ctrl>+<Alr>+<Del>.


And the Americans fire up all their systems filled with Chinese made chips and components...... :hot: :melting: :checkeredflag:
 
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:36 pm

stratclub wrote:
Are you ready to support military readiness at the expense of basic human services like Russia and company do? With our diminishing economic health from moving manufacturing overseas, at some point we will have to choose. Military might or funding basic human services.


Your economy has never been so strong, hasn't it ? The problem is that you don't tax people and companies enough to pay for your spending.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
apodino
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:57 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
marcelh wrote:
And the Chinese just starting their computers and loggin in the US systems and press <Ctrl>+<Alr>+<Del>.


And the Americans fire up all their systems filled with Chinese made chips and components...... :hot: :melting: :checkeredflag:


I hate to say it but this is something that Clinton and Bush allowed to happen during their time in office. They allowed these corporations with armies of lobbyists to allow these things to happen, and bam they do everything overseas. Now the problem is because it was allowed to happen like crazy in the past, this issue is largely intertwined with the US Economy. Trump rightly points out this is a problem, which is why the tarriffs are in place, but because politicians looked the other way when this was allowed to ramp up now we are in a situation where actually addressing this issue would cause a lot of harm to the american economy, as is seen by the recent performance of the stock market.

The bigger problem is its allowed China to blossom, and they have a very poor human rights record as is seen by the lack of free speech, no free press, no religious freedom, and one party rule. But because of the one child policy, and sex selective abortions, there are far more boys born than girls, which will leave a lot of chinese men without any woman to marry as well as cause the population to age, like we see in Japan. And Xi just seized power and has become a bigger dictator that before. One issue now happening is China as well is their economy is slowing down, which is another thing hitting the american stock market. There are more problems in China than we realize, and its not getting much press because of the aforementioned press restrictions and the American press being more focused on Trump.

As for the South China Sea, there are many nations that border that Sea and they do not want to fall under Chinese rule. Sinking US carriers isnt going to resolve any tensions, it will inflame them, and some of these other nations will provide us a ton of support to defend this region.
 
Flighty
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:12 pm

apodino wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
marcelh wrote:
And the Chinese just starting their computers and loggin in the US systems and press <Ctrl>+<Alr>+<Del>.


And the Americans fire up all their systems filled with Chinese made chips and components...... :hot: :melting: :checkeredflag:


I hate to say it but this is something that Clinton and Bush allowed to happen during their time in office. They allowed these corporations with armies of lobbyists to allow these things to happen, and bam they do everything overseas. Now the problem is because it was allowed to happen like crazy in the past, this issue is largely intertwined with the US Economy. Trump rightly points out this is a problem, which is why the tarriffs are in place, but because politicians looked the other way when this was allowed to ramp up now we are in a situation where actually addressing this issue would cause a lot of harm to the american economy, as is seen by the recent performance of the stock market.

The bigger problem is its allowed China to blossom, and they have a very poor human rights record as is seen by the lack of free speech, no free press, no religious freedom, and one party rule. But because of the one child policy, and sex selective abortions, there are far more boys born than girls, which will leave a lot of chinese men without any woman to marry as well as cause the population to age, like we see in Japan. And Xi just seized power and has become a bigger dictator that before. One issue now happening is China as well is their economy is slowing down, which is another thing hitting the american stock market. There are more problems in China than we realize, and its not getting much press because of the aforementioned press restrictions and the American press being more focused on Trump.

As for the South China Sea, there are many nations that border that Sea and they do not want to fall under Chinese rule. Sinking US carriers isnt going to resolve any tensions, it will inflame them, and some of these other nations will provide us a ton of support to defend this region.


Absolutely right. I spend a lot of time in China in the year 2000 era. A lot of clowns (Hank Paulson stands out) saw themselves as "China hands" able to see a bright future in which all serious businesspeople would work in China. This was actually ridiculous. Most serious business is still in the USA/West/Japan/legitimate countries, including a lot of Chinese business.

About the admiral, he's not wrong. The US has frequently used might-makes-right techniques as it sees fit. Without a prospect of a military victory, we would be discussing how the US would lose the battle in the South China Sea, and what the fallout might be. Would we escalate to nuclear war, triggering the end of the world? Probably not. We would just leave.

It is a tough question but China has been given the opportunity to make their capture of the South China Sea a fait accompli. The time to analyze this was in 1995. The dullards and idiots who mismanaged the US's immense advantages... it's mind-blowing... throwing the world into possible chaos... disgusting.
 
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:35 pm

His speech was delivered on Dec 20th, so is Rear Admiral Lou Yuan still in a job or vanished beneath the waves?
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trpmb6
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:18 pm

Hmm... What do you do when you have a growing population of military aged men, and a slowing economy.... gotta do something with them...
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:34 pm

cpd wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Yep, nothing would ease tension like sinking a US carrier. :rotfl:



They will get smashed, simple as that. China may have a vast military, but the USA still can strike back in a way China will not be able to stop.


It’s not going to stay like that for long. The Chinese Navy is outbuilding the USN, as an example.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:40 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral


Well he couldn't be more right, because if they sink an aircraft carrier of ours China is going to be obliterated that same day.

Kiwirob wrote:
It’s not going to stay like that for long. The Chinese Navy is outbuilding the USN, as an example.


The United States Navy has 20 aircraft carriers for all practical purposes. How many can the Chinese field?
 
Flighty
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:20 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral


Well he couldn't be more right, because if they sink an aircraft carrier of ours China is going to be obliterated that same day.


Kiwirob wrote:
It’s not going to stay like that for long. The Chinese Navy is outbuilding the USN, as an example.


The United States Navy has 20 aircraft carriers for all practical purposes. How many can the Chinese field?


Come on. That is not correct. China has those cement islands. As they are populated >50 years, they will arguably be legal islands. China is winning a slow race on that.

When the battle begins, China's missile system, with over 1,000 missiles would sink the USN assets in the area, whether 1,2, 20, 60 ships. We are not going to win that naval battle unless we use lasers from space to do it. They can deny us entry to that area, they know it and we know it. So it is going to be theirs. It's done. Clinton, Bush and Obama mismanaged the issue and it is over now.

A nuclear war on this issue will not happen. And if it does, we would be among the losers. I am not saying China has as good a technology as ours. I am saying our long term strategy has been so poorly led and executed that China had to overcome large technological disadvantages and still win. The next step is we give up and leave the area.
 
Flaps
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:07 am

Hirohito followed this path and ignored the advice of his brilliant Admiral Yamamoto. That did not work out so well for either of them, for their nation or their people. Never underestimate the power, determination and will of the United States. We may be a deeply flawed nation and a deeply flawed and currently divided people but all of our divisions will vanish in a heartbeat if we are attacked.
I believe that China's bravado is cover for fear. The fear that the world has grown wise to their game and is no longer willing to play by their rules. They have played their hand too soon and too forcefully. They need to be very careful how they tread. Their "face" saving rhetoric should it turn to action could well doom them and a significant part of the world's population at the same time.
 
cpd
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:19 am

Kiwirob wrote:
cpd wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Yep, nothing would ease tension like sinking a US carrier. :rotfl:



They will get smashed, simple as that. China may have a vast military, but the USA still can strike back in a way China will not be able to stop.


It’s not going to stay like that for long. The Chinese Navy is outbuilding the USN, as an example.



Doesn't matter what they do, USA can lob missiles over there and a lot of people will die. And no, the Chinese will not be able to shoot them down.

This Chinese guy is figuring he can just sink a ship and the world will be too scared to respond for fear of a nuclear exchange. His ideas are badly flawed.

Flighty wrote:
A nuclear war on this issue will not happen. And if it does, we would be among the losers.


If they threaten to attack a US warship (or more particularly, actually do it), then a potential (or actual) nuclear response is the only acceptable answer. Bring it on. The USA has overwhelming power it can project, simple as that. They need to understand that this kind of behaviour will not win out. They have to know that it will bring about the end of the world.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:40 am

That's a ridiculous statement. The US has a gigantic military specifically so it can do plenty of conventional warfare. If China sinks one of your carriers, the response is to sink the Chinese fleet or something like that. A nuclear strike means a nuclear war and a US carrier isn't worth the end of civilization.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
anrec80
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:44 am

stratclub wrote:
History does repeat it's self. Wait until our manufacturing capability gets so poor that our economy can't support our military infrastructure.


It already can't support it - whole deficit is 800bln, and is greater than your defense budget.

stratclub wrote:
Many of the people from Chernobyl are still waiting for the Ukraine government to make good on basic human resources and some are moving back to Chernobyl even thought it is a death sentence because they have no other place to go.


They will be waiting for Ukrainian government forever. Not happening, period. It's a wonder there is still such a thing as "Ukraine government".

stratclub wrote:
Are you ready to support military readiness at the expense of basic human services like Russia and company do? With our diminishing economic health from moving manufacturing overseas, at some point we will have to choose. Military might or funding basic human services.


I think you are at the point where deep cuts, down to the bare bones, are needed. Across the board, both to military and welfare. Military - all you can afford really is just enough to keep the borders intact. No NATO, no military bases abroad, no allies defense, no invasions anywhere. Welfare - basic services only (food, shelter, clothing) at basic levels. Such as smallest place in cheapest-to-live areas. No "I want to live there and not here", no other "want" things. If a low-income Grandma is lucky to have grown middle-class kids, the kids need to be asked to chip in for the Grandma or take her home, not food stamps or Section 8.

stratclub wrote:
China didn't necessarily say right now. All they have to do is just wait as our economy and ability to support our military readiness degrades and they will be able to just walk in and overtake us.


It will be by far worse. In the event you run down your economy and weaken your statehood, China, Russia, Europe, Canada - everyone will be pasturing here for something useful and interesting. Such as innovations, projects, teams of professionals, technologies, companies, assets. And the rest - will be just left here to degrade and rust. Nobody will want to take the responsibility for the territory and poor people that will be left here.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:47 am

Just think ,we and our corporations made all this possible. God Bless them all and us.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
cpd
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:49 am

Aesma wrote:
That's a ridiculous statement. The US has a gigantic military specifically so it can do plenty of conventional warfare. If China sinks one of your carriers, the response is to sink the Chinese fleet or something like that. A nuclear strike means a nuclear war and a US carrier isn't worth the end of civilization.


It's about playing their game. They think the West is soft. Otherwise they wouldn't be so blatant. It is about demonstrating to them that there can be no possible good to come from the sinking of a US aircraft carrier. Sinking a ship like that is a declaration of war.

The threat of the complete destruction of the world has been enough to avoid wars previously, maybe it can do so again - preventing the needless losses of life that would occur from any battles between the USA and China. But in order for that deterrent to be credible, the threat has to remain a real possibility.
 
anrec80
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:49 am

cpd wrote:
If they threaten to attack a US warship (or more particularly, actually do it), then a potential (or actual) nuclear response is the only acceptable answer. Bring it on. The USA has overwhelming power it can project, simple as that. They need to understand that this kind of behaviour will not win out. They have to know that it will bring about the end of the world.


When Trump was messing around with airstrikes in Syria - Russians said exactly that. "Missiles targeting Russian military will be destroyed together with their carriers". Which meant - missiles together with whatever launched them, be it a submarine, a plane, an aircraft carrier even. And they have conventional hypersonic missiles capable of taking an aircraft carrier out of action before anyone realized what happened. And given that American missiles in Syria carefully bypassed Russian missile defenses, Americans took these words seriously.
 
anrec80
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:51 am

aviationaware wrote:
The United States Navy has 20 aircraft carriers for all practical purposes. How many can the Chinese field?


And how many of these 20 are actually combat-ready and not in repairs? And - how much do they cost and can you afford them?
 
anrec80
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:05 am

Aesma wrote:
Your economy has never been so strong, hasn't it ? The problem is that you don't tax people and companies enough to pay for your spending.


The problem is that people and companies don't want to get taxed. Especially when there are so many more lower tax jurisdictions that will be happy with by far fewer percentage of revenue, be it personal or corporate. Think of it as "jurisdiction competition" - those jurisdictions (nations, states, regions) that can maintain lean, cost efficient government structures, which are sized just right tend to win in competition for business, talent, jobs. 50% income tax has never been a part of a competitive and compelling compensation package for any professional, or even an employer.

This is why traditional "social justice states" are having harder and harder time. The only way for a national or a local government to maintain competitiveness is to keep its size and spending tightly controlled, without expenditures that aren't vitally important, with minimum regulations, and yet quality services such as education, public safety, etc. There is growing understanding of this among various US governments (e.g. Trump with corporate tax cuts - to a more competitive 20% rate, New York state Governor saying "we have no future as a high tax state"), but too little action in this direction yet.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:23 am

anrec80 wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
The United States Navy has 20 aircraft carriers for all practical purposes. How many can the Chinese field?


And how many of these 20 are actually combat-ready and not in repairs? And - how much do they cost and can you afford them?


All of them if they need to be.
 
anrec80
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:32 am

aviationaware wrote:
All of them if they need to be.


By the time "they need to be" it may be late.
 
A3801000
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:24 am

Somebody needs to post a lot today to reach his quota it seems
 
Cerecl
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:26 am

Reality check: Admiral Luo is a 69yo Rear Admiral who has not held significant commanding position in his active service career. He is a known hawk who is the former deputy head of a department of a military academy (He would have retired from admin position due to his age). Equating his position/opinion with that of Chinese military/government is pretty foolish IMO.
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Jouhou
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Re: Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:54 am

aviationaware wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Sinking US aircraft carriers will resolve tension in South China Sea, says Chinese admiral


Well he couldn't be more right, because if they sink an aircraft carrier of ours China is going to be obliterated that same day.

Kiwirob wrote:
It’s not going to stay like that for long. The Chinese Navy is outbuilding the USN, as an example.


The United States Navy has 20 aircraft carriers for all practical purposes. How many can the Chinese field?


That figure of "20" is sort of cheating. It's our fleet of super carriers that makes us unique in how we can project military power.

I'm pretty sure France is the only country that has a ship that even remotely compares though. China has a total of Zero carriers that compare.

The thing is, the best way to sink a carrier is not by using another carrier. They don't need them to sink ours.
anrec80 wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
All of them if they need to be.


By the time "they need to be" it may be late.


There's 10 deployable super carriers and one that's not. Dry docks for these things are massive and there aren't a whole lot of them out there. That means there's never going to be too many undergoing major overhauls at once.

Also considering we are talking about a hypothetical war with China, I'm pretty sure our bases in Japan and South Korea are as good as super carriers in that situation.
cpd wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Yep, nothing would ease tension like sinking a US carrier. :rotfl:



They will get smashed, simple as that. China may have a vast military, but the USA still can strike back in a way China will not be able to stop.


People in the US are worried about what our president is willing to do to hurt our own country if his ego gets bruised. We don't have leadership that could be trusted to react with an appropriately "measured" response to such an attack. China is not stupid though, they know this, it's just bluster.

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