Airstud
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Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:39 am

Brought my 2012 Toyota to the dealership for its 5K interval servicing coupla weeks ago; they said I needed

A) new battery ($150). Indeed I had noticed the car being a little reluctant to start on a couple of occasions, and the Minnesota winter weather is coming. Is six years a good run for a car battery?

2) front brake linings. On the Green (all good) Yellow (will require further attention) Red (requires immediate attention) scale, these rated Red. Gonna cost just over $400. My Chase statement closed yesterday so I phoned to schedule the appointment and when I told the girl what service I wanted done (was surprised this info wasn't available to her via their own systems), she interpreted my "it needs the front brake linings replaced" as a need to have them check the hoses. "No, not the hoses, the linings, your own printout said 'Front brake linings.'" Well she said something about how that's not an option on her screen and proceeded to refer, for the rest of the phone call,. to the work being done as being done on the "brake lines." I gave up trying to get her to say "linings" after my 2nd or 3rd attempt.

See, I interpret "brake lines" to refer to the hydraulic tubing - dare I say hoses - that actuate the brakes upon the pedal being pressed. Am I wrong about this? I figured "brake linings" maybe refer to what I'm used to calling "brake pads" so am I just ancient? I can handle "linings" having replaced "pads" in the lexicon but I'm thenceforth much more hesitant to accept "lines" as a synonym for "linings."

(Also - is six years a good run for (whatever the heck I end up having replaced for $407)? or am I being hornswoggled? :boggled: )
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Berevoff
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:46 am

A. That seems a bit steep for a battery. If you bought it at the dealership I can understand the markup. 6 years is a pretty good run in Minnesota.

2. I've never heard of brake linings. It has to be the lines. That seems like a reasonable price to me. Its not fun or easy to redo them. I personally wouldn't call it tubing because they are all metal that's pre-bent in sections. (I'm just a weekend warrior mechanic)

Everyone I know still calls them "brake pads."

If you have any semblance of interest or skill you should look into doing your own servicing. Its dead easy to do all the greasing, fluid changes, spark plugs, brakes, and some belts. If you notice anything amiss just take it to the shop anyway.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:52 am

Airstud wrote:
Brought my 2012 Toyota to the dealership for its 5K interval servicing coupla weeks ago; they said I needed

A) new battery ($150). Indeed I had noticed the car being a little reluctant to start on a couple of occasions, and the Minnesota winter weather is coming. Is six years a good run for a car battery?


Yes, especially a factory battery.

Airstud wrote:
See, I interpret "brake lines" to refer to the hydraulic tubing - dare I say hoses - that actuate the brakes upon the pedal being pressed. Am I wrong about this? I figured "brake linings" maybe refer to what I'm used to calling "brake pads" so am I just ancient? I can handle "linings" having replaced "pads" in the lexicon but I'm thenceforth much more hesitant to accept "lines" as a synonym for "linings."


"Pads" & "linings" are pretty much interchangeable in the language of automotive maintenance.

Do not accept "lines" as "linings". A "line" is a rigid tube, whereas a "hose" is a flexible tube. "Lines" & hoses" are never "linings".

Airstud wrote:
(Also - is six years a good run for (whatever the heck I end up having replaced for $407)? or am I being hornswoggled? :boggled: )


Six years and you've never had the brakes "done"? Make sure they look at the disk...or rotors...to ensure they aren't too thin or warped.
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johns624
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:54 am

Brake linings are brake pads. Why didn't you just tell her "pads" since that's what they really are. Pads on discs and shoes on drums. Confused?
 
Airstud
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:05 am

johns624 wrote:
Brake linings are brake pads. Why didn't you just tell her "pads" since that's what they really are. Pads on discs and shoes on drums. Confused?


Thought it was calipers on discs and shoes on drums; and that both types have pads; is what I thought.

Berevoff wrote:
If you have any semblance of interest or skill you should look into doing your own servicing.


Did you learn nothing about me from my opening post? :spin:

fr8mech wrote:
Airstud wrote:
(Also - is six years a good run for (whatever the heck I end up having replaced for $407)? or am I being hornswoggled? :boggled: )


Six years and you've never had the brakes "done"? Make sure they look at the disk...or rotors...to ensure they aren't too thin or warped.


Hmmmmm... is that not something they'd normally look at at 5K interval servicing? It's had its 65K and 70K checkups already...

(Edited to add: :boggled: )
Last edited by Airstud on Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Berevoff
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:12 am

Airstud wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Brake linings are brake pads. Why didn't you just tell her "pads" since that's what they really are. Pads on discs and shoes on drums. Confused?


Thought it was calipers on discs and shoes on drums; and that both types have pads; is what I thought.

Berevoff wrote:
If you have any semblance of interest or skill you should look into doing your own servicing.


Did you learn nothing about me from my opening post? :spin:
.


Touche!
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:47 am

Airstud wrote:
Hmmmmm... is that not something they'd normally look at at 5K interval servicing? It's had its 65K and 70K checkups already...

(Edited to add: :boggled: )


Yeah, but six years is a bit of time on brakes. So, where are you, 75K? I'm the kinda guy that like to double-check things. I'd hate for you to go back in at 80K or 85K, or whatever the next interval is and they say "well, now your rotors are worn and need to be replaced. Can I assume they'll be re-surfacing the rotors when they change the pads?

Airstud wrote:
Thought it was calipers on discs and shoes on drums; and that both types have pads; is what I thought.


Calipers house the pistons that drive or squeeze the pads onto the discs (rotors). Wheel cylinders house the pistons that drive the shoes onto the drum.

Calipers~Wheel Cylinders
Pads~Shoes
Discs~Drum

"~" = "analogous to"
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TSS
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:58 am

Airstud wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Brake linings are brake pads. Why didn't you just tell her "pads" since that's what they really are. Pads on discs and shoes on drums. Confused?


Thought it was calipers on discs and shoes on drums; and that both types have pads; is what I thought.

The caliper is what clamps the brake pads to the disc. Drum brakes use a bi-directional "wheel cylinder" to press the shoes against the inside of the drum.
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NIKV69
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:01 am

6 years of winters in MN? That is a great run! Yes linings are pads.
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Flighty
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:14 am

Batteries actually like cold weather states far more than hot weather states. The place batteries hate is Arizona. It cooks them.

Brake pads for a 2012 Toyota cost about $32 for aftermarket or $52 shipped for factory OEM brake pads (at least that is what they say on Ebay).

$400 includes about $350 in labor, which is steep. You can do this job yourself in an afternoon, or in 1 hour tops, after you know how to do it. It is easy. But, that is what the dealer is there for.

Lastly, about "brake lines" - these are steel tubes that carry brake fluid at high pressure. Maybe at 15-20 years, rust could ruin this steel tube. But a 2012 Toyota should not have that problem. It would be a national scandal with many deaths if they did.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:37 am

Flighty wrote:
Batteries actually like cold weather states far more than hot weather states. The place batteries hate is Arizona. It cooks them.


Heat damages the batteries, cold weather reveals the damage.

Six years on any battery is living on borrowed time.
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Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
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Airstud
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:09 am

Flighty wrote:
Batteries actually like cold weather states far more than hot weather states. The place batteries hate is Arizona. It cooks them.

Brake pads for a 2012 Toyota cost about $32 for aftermarket or $52 shipped for factory OEM brake pads (at least that is what they say on Ebay).

$400 includes about $350 in labor, which is steep. You can do this job yourself in an afternoon, or in 1 hour tops, after you know how to do it. It is easy. But, that is what the dealer is there for.

Lastly, about "brake lines" - these are steel tubes that carry brake fluid at high pressure. Maybe at 15-20 years, rust could ruin this steel tube. But a 2012 Toyota should not have that problem. It would be a national scandal with many deaths if they did.


A national scandal involving Toyotas. Who ever heard of such a thing...
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NIKV69
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:36 am

Flighty wrote:
Batteries actually like cold weather states far more than hot weather states. The place batteries hate is Arizona. It cooks them.


I know Nevada too I replace my truck battery every November.
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Moose135
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:49 am

fr8mech wrote:
Six years and you've never had the brakes "done"? Make sure they look at the disk...or rotors...to ensure they aren't too thin or warped.

It's pretty much a standard part of doing a brake job to check the rotors, I'm sure they won't let it go without making sure they are still good, or will replace them as part of the brake job. Brake wear is all about how you drive and they type of driving you do. My Durango is 4 1/2 years old, with 140K miles - clearly I do a lot of highway driving, and I'm fairly easy on the brakes. I'm still on the factory pads and rotors - every oil change, the dealer does a full safety inspection, including measuring the pads, and at the rate I'm going, I may get another 20K out of them.
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Channex757
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:22 am

Brake linings is more of an older expression to cover both main types of brakes. Either the common disc brake pads, or the older style of drum brake shoes. Shoes are rare these days and not as effective as brake pads on disc brakes.

On both types they need to change the friction surface that lines the brakes, hence brake linings.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:24 am

Moose135 wrote:
Brake wear is all about how you drive and they type of driving you do.


Yeah, I'm a little tough on brakes. I have about 170,000 on my flex, with about half on the highway. I'm on my third set. But, to tell you the truth, I think the brakes on the Flex are a little undersized. I warped one of the disks on the factory set.
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TWA772LR
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:40 am

Repairpal.com is your friend.
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The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:19 am

Airstud wrote:
Brought my 2012 Toyota to the dealership for its 5K interval servicing coupla weeks ago; they said I needed

A) new battery ($150). Indeed I had noticed the car being a little reluctant to start on a couple of occasions, and the Minnesota winter weather is coming. Is six years a good run for a car battery?

2) front brake linings. On the Green (all good) Yellow (will require further attention) Red (requires immediate attention) scale, these rated Red. Gonna cost just over $400. My Chase statement closed yesterday so I phoned to schedule the appointment and when I told the girl what service I wanted done (was surprised this info wasn't available to her via their own systems), she interpreted my "it needs the front brake linings replaced" as a need to have them check the hoses. "No, not the hoses, the linings, your own printout said 'Front brake linings.'" Well she said something about how that's not an option on her screen and proceeded to refer, for the rest of the phone call,. to the work being done as being done on the "brake lines." I gave up trying to get her to say "linings" after my 2nd or 3rd attempt.

See, I interpret "brake lines" to refer to the hydraulic tubing - dare I say hoses - that actuate the brakes upon the pedal being pressed. Am I wrong about this? I figured "brake linings" maybe refer to what I'm used to calling "brake pads" so am I just ancient? I can handle "linings" having replaced "pads" in the lexicon but I'm thenceforth much more hesitant to accept "lines" as a synonym for "linings."

(Also - is six years a good run for (whatever the heck I end up having replaced for $407)? or am I being hornswoggled? :boggled: )


6 years on a battery in a frigid climate is actually pretty good. $150 for a new battery though? It cost me $110 for a Bosch Battery with a 5 year warranty with 3x the cold cranking amps I actually need to turn my engine over. I too come from a cold climate and was sick of having a "dead" battery every time the season changed ( Without the hyperbole, I needed a replacement approx once every 2 years over both cars I've owned). I eventually grew wiser and didn't just walk into pep boys and ask for a "battery". Finally realized how much CCA matters in a climate like this. And CCA is cranking amps at 32f and it gets much colder than that here. I'm now on the 6th year of this one, still starts fine in sub-zero weather.

As for the person scheduling you for maintenance, I'm not gonna lie if she works in a place that works on cars she must be dense if she hasn't figured out the difference between Brake lines and Brake liners/pads yet. Even someone who's only been in the job for a few days and doesn't own a car should be able to pick up on that considering Brakes are essential to getting an inspection sticker and maintenance can't be put off for too long.

I'm not sure about whether or not your costs are appropriate for your vehicle though. Best option is to look up the price of the parts being replaced, subtracting that from the estimate, and try to figure out how much they are milking you for labor. Also I buy parts in advance so they can't overcharge me for something low quality. More often than not they will try to charge you double the price (the price sold at the same store when you buy without installation) for parts if you don't pay attention.

Most auto mechanic work isn't really rocket science, but without an auto hobby shop membership most people don't have access to the tools that make it relatively easy (like a lift).
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:24 am

fr8mech wrote:
Moose135 wrote:
Brake wear is all about how you drive and they type of driving you do.


Yeah, I'm a little tough on brakes. I have about 170,000 on my flex, with about half on the highway. I'm on my third set. But, to tell you the truth, I think the brakes on the Flex are a little undersized. I warped one of the disks on the factory set.


Pretty sure driving manual vs automatic has a huge impact on brake life span as well. I downshift where a lot of people with automatics would be braking.
 
Airstud
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:33 am

Jouhou wrote:
Brakes are essential to getting an inspection sticker


None of those in Minnesota :biggrin:
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Moose135
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:46 am

Jouhou wrote:
Pretty sure driving manual vs automatic has a huge impact on brake life span as well. I downshift where a lot of people with automatics would be braking.

That helps too, but mine is an automatic, but I do things like get off the gas and coast up to red lights and such, so I try to minimize brake use where I can. One highway off ramp I use quite a bit starts with a right hand curve, then swings around to the left to cross over the highway. When I get into the exit lane, I click off the cruise control and let it coast up the ramp. Usually, as I get to the start of the lefthand bend, I'm getting back on the gas to keep my speed reasonable - most cars I see ahead of me are hitting the brakes at that same point.
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Jouhou
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:51 am

Airstud wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Brakes are essential to getting an inspection sticker


None of those in Minnesota :biggrin:



No brakes?!!

The concept of not needing annual inspections is foreign to me, does that make insurance expensive over there?
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:18 am

Jouhou wrote:
The concept of not needing annual inspections is foreign to me, does that make insurance expensive over there?


No inspection requirement in KY, either.
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Jouhou
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:27 am

fr8mech wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
The concept of not needing annual inspections is foreign to me, does that make insurance expensive over there?


No inspection requirement in KY, either.


It has its merits, but it really sucks because the mechanics try to advantage of people's mechanical ignorance. I once had them tell me my power window was broken blah blah they needed to disassemble my door and replace shit. I said it's probably just sticking in the seal at the top but they insisted there was a mechanical issue. I walked out to my car, opened that door, tried opening it to verify it was sticking, and strategically whacked it with the palm of my hand and voila, it worked fine. I just stated "OK I fixed it. By the way, I'm a mechanic. "

Either they were real idiots (plausible) or they thought they could fool me (and people tend to think women don't have any mechanical ability), either way I hate that the annual inspection requires people deal with this shady bullshit.
 
FatCat
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:00 am

six years over a single battery is really good.
today's batteries are not like old times ones. they are alive and well one day, the morning after you'll find them dead.
but $ 150,- for a battery seems a lot to me. I paid mine, a 60Ah Varta € 50,- this summer. But maybe yours is bigger.
Replacing a battery is a very easy job, you can do it yourself.
Brake pads are also quite easy to change but I won't do it myself.
Brake pads duration depends on driving behaviour, automatic or manual transmission, weight of the car, etc.
If you use your car very often, the pads will last less - by the way. If you use your car very rarely, the brake pads will become hard and wouldn't brake anymore. That's because asbestos isn't used anymore in producing them. But $ 250,- seems like an awful lot of money for a brake pads change.
Also, every two year it is good behaviour to change the brake fluid. It is hygroscopic, so, even if the circuit is sealed, the fluid will absorb air humidity and loose its characteristics. Long story short, with an old brake fluid, you may find yourself in trouble having no brake force at all all of a sudden, typically under high pressure braking.
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fr8mech
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:26 am

FatCat wrote:
but $ 150,- for a battery seems a lot to me..


I think $150 is a decent price for a good battery, installed, especially at a dealer.

A couple of years ago, I bought a 5 year battery from Autozone for something like $120, with a core of $15(?), so $105. I installed it myself.

FatCat wrote:
Brake pads are also quite easy to change but I won't do it myself.


I've done my own brakes before, but I won't anymore. The dealer can do it faster, with a warranty and take care of any incidentals, like resurfacing the rotors and broken bolts, along the way. You don't want to pay dealer shop rates? Go to any number of brake places, but they tend to nickel and dime you to death. The dealer tends to be a flat-rate.

FatCat wrote:
Also, every two year it is good behaviour to change the brake fluid.


Yeah...I've never changed my brake fluid. My brakes have worked fine in all the cars I've owned over the last 35 years.
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Jouhou
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:36 am

fr8mech wrote:
FatCat wrote:
but $ 150,- for a battery seems a lot to me..


I think $150 is a decent price for a good battery, installed, especially at a dealer.

A couple of years ago, I bought a 5 year battery from Autozone for something like $120, with a core of $15(?), so $105. I installed it myself.

FatCat wrote:
Brake pads are also quite easy to change but I won't do it myself.


I've done my own brakes before, but I won't anymore. The dealer can do it faster, with a warranty and take care of any incidentals, like resurfacing the rotors and broken bolts, along the way. You don't want to pay dealer shop rates? Go to any number of brake places, but they tend to nickel and dime you to death. The dealer tends to be a flat-rate.

FatCat wrote:
Also, every two year it is good behaviour to change the brake fluid.


Yeah...I've never changed my brake fluid. My brakes have worked fine in all the cars I've owned over the last 35 years.


You live in a strange world where dealers will actually pay for what they broke. My mom brought her car in to get her starter solenoid replaced, they somehow disabled her brakes in the process (%&%$# HOW?!!) and charged her $800 for that. They basically held her car for ransom unless she paid up.
 
Airstud
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:38 am

I like the shape of the bottles that brake fluid comes in. They're tidy and cute.
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Jouhou
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:44 am

Airstud wrote:
I like the shape of the bottles that brake fluid comes in. They're tidy and cute.


That's a weird take on... bottles. You nodding off on ambien too? I should sleep...
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:50 am

Jouhou wrote:
You live in a strange world where dealers will actually pay for what they broke. .


I didn't say I wouldn't have to pay for it, I said they would take care of it...fix it. Break a bolt or snap a spring during a brake job and you're basically hosed. If you don't have another car, you're stuck with your bike...as in bicycle. And, you're at the mercy the local parts place, since the dealer is probably closed, because you're doing the work on the weekend, and the dealer has limited hours on Saturday, and no hours on Sunday.

No thanks. Undercarriage work goes to the shop because of the high risk of finding broken shit.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
 
Airstud
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:19 am

Jouhou wrote:
Airstud wrote:
I like the shape of the bottles that brake fluid comes in. They're tidy and cute.


That's a weird take on... bottles. You nodding off on ambien too? I should sleep...


They're round, see. They're not garish or oversized; they are instead the humble quintessence of bottlehood.

fr8mech wrote:
finding broken shit


Gross.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:31 am

If you still have the owner's manual, check recommended scheduled maintenance for required hose inspection/replacement for the age/miles.

A battery should cost $70-$80 with core exchange. If you are your friend has Costco/Sams club just get a new one, replace yourself and return the core.

Brakes you have to go with service advisor's recommendation as it relates to safety, but no need to waste money on battery.
 
FatCat
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:34 am

fr8mech wrote:
FatCat wrote:
but $ 150,- for a battery seems a lot to me..


I think $150 is a decent price for a good battery, installed, especially at a dealer.

A couple of years ago, I bought a 5 year battery from Autozone for something like $120, with a core of $15(?), so $105. I installed it myself.

FatCat wrote:
Brake pads are also quite easy to change but I won't do it myself.


I've done my own brakes before, but I won't anymore. The dealer can do it faster, with a warranty and take care of any incidentals, like resurfacing the rotors and broken bolts, along the way. You don't want to pay dealer shop rates? Go to any number of brake places, but they tend to nickel and dime you to death. The dealer tends to be a flat-rate.

FatCat wrote:
Also, every two year it is good behaviour to change the brake fluid.


Yeah...I've never changed my brake fluid. My brakes have worked fine in all the cars I've owned over the last 35 years.

Well... I've never changed it too. Before finding myself + 3 people without brakes (pedal stick to the carpet) going downhill a 2200 mt. mountain pass, with curves and everything. Now, I change (let it change by the shop, btw) every year when servicing the car. It's € 50,- more so not a big deal. BMW Service has mandatory brake fluid replacement every two years, whilst other do noth have at all.
$ 150,- agree is a good price for a bought and installed battery.
No I won't change anything braking related by myself. For such things is better to ask a professional.
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:24 pm

Even before I rocked up, you have been blessed with a wealth of different advice, some good, some not so good.
I'm not sure which category my own offering comes under. :lol:

Is six years good for a battery?
Notwithstanding the issue of local climate (as mentioned by others), it's fair but not brilliant. My own experience from buying second-hand vehicles is that the original factory-fitted battery can be good for 8 or 10 years. And I once met a Volvo that went way beyond that.
However, when you come to replace this original battery, you enter a strangely different world. I have bought cheap batteries, with a 3-year warranty, and had them fail after 3½ years every time. So I got smarter (like one of the earlier posters) and spent more on a Bosch or some other top margue claiming to be genuine OEM. These would struggle on to maybe 4-5 years before failing. I conclude that the original batteries fitted on the production line are a totally different beast, not available at any price to us mere mortals, and in most cases not even available to dealerships. :cry:

Brake linings.
Taking a step back into history; once upon a time all cars had drum brakes with brake shoes, on all four wheels. In 1955 the Citroen DS introduced disc brakes on a mass produced car for the first time, and in the decades that followed, discs were offered firstly on high end sports cars, and later on everyday vehicles, typically only on the front wheels. It was probably the 1980's when disc brakes on all four wheels became more common.
Why the boring history lesson? When your brakes started to wear out, you had two options; you could either splash out and replace the shoes, or you could replace just the linings - literally the thin band of friction material without the lump of metal backing plate behind it.
This latter option was initially cheaper, but required more expertise (& labor), and was probably best done by a specialist workshop on an exchange basis. Over time, the cost of brake shoes came down, whilst the cost of labor increased, and the practise has died out except in respect of vintage vehicles where there might be no other option. Or if you run a fleet of buses...
Image

Now that brake discs (and brake pads) are almost universal, the idea of referring to "linings" is archaic (IMO). I buy replacement pads which consist of a backing plate and a lining, but few mechanics would consider them anything other than a single unit, commonly known as a pad.
They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
I suggest you copy the above onto your phone, and present it to Dolly Daydream next time you have the pleasure.

Or you can direct her to eBay.co.uk where you can buy a set of brake linings (i.e. just the friction material) e.g. to fit a Scania articulated bus.
Seriously? What bus operator buys their spare parts on eBay?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/19932-fit-Sc ... 0608752690
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:26 pm

fr8mech wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
You live in a strange world where dealers will actually pay for what they broke. .


I didn't say I wouldn't have to pay for it, I said they would take care of it...fix it. Break a bolt or snap a spring during a brake job and you're basically hosed. If you don't have another car, you're stuck with your bike...as in bicycle. And, you're at the mercy the local parts place, since the dealer is probably closed, because you're doing the work on the weekend, and the dealer has limited hours on Saturday, and no hours on Sunday.

No thanks. Undercarriage work goes to the shop because of the high risk of finding broken shit.


I did rotors and pads for my cars last year for 120 a car. A lift and a breaker bar(long wrench with leverage for the Nuts) with a C Clamp( for retracting caliper pad) is useful and would be a upfront cost.

Just google brake pads and your car model on youtube for an idea if it is worth your time.
I got all 4 brakes and rotors done in about 90 minutes. 70 minutes for the 2nd after I figured out how to get the pads and shriekers back in I was shocked that Amazon shipped the rotors free of charge. They weight 30-40 pounds each.

What got me after I was done the first time is that for the Mechanics to tell you that you need new pads or rotors, they have already removed the caliper. The pads and rotor take maybe 10 minutes to change out.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:33 pm

Footnote;
In recent years, I have had the dubious pleasure of replacing not only my disc pads, but also the discs (rotors) themselves. It is a surprisingly easy task (on my vehicles at least), but I queried why it was happening so frequently. The answer I received was that pads are now constructed from modern (non-asbestos) ultra hard material, whilst the brake discs themselves are made from Chinese scrap metal. This combination of factors results in a situation where discs can wear out as quickly as pads.
Don't you just love the modern world....
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:15 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Footnote;
In recent years, I have had the dubious pleasure of replacing not only my disc pads, but also the discs (rotors) themselves. It is a surprisingly easy task (on my vehicles at least), but I queried why it was happening so frequently. The answer I received was that pads are now constructed from modern (non-asbestos) ultra hard material, whilst the brake discs themselves are made from Chinese scrap metal. This combination of factors results in a situation where discs can wear out as quickly as pads.
Don't you just love the modern world....


I'm generally opposed to doing work on my own car for a few reasons, the cheapness of materials is one of them. I'm generally horrified that every god damn fastener appears to be made from carbon steel and looks like a wad of rust and I have to reassure myself that they need to keep manufacturing costs down on vehicles *somehow*. I really have a hard time wrapping my head around how fragile the steel parts get after years of exposure to coastal air and salty slush from below during the winter. I'm used to dealing with nickel alloys with fasteners, but it appears the manufacturer can't even cough up the money for a few 316 stainless nuts in strategic high-corrosion areas? Come on.
 
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notaxonrotax
Posts: 1297
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:09 pm

Marine winches their braking "pads" are called linings too.

No Tax On Rotax
For anybody that happens to be wondering:"yes, owning your own aircraft is a 100% worth it!"
 
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Tugger
Posts: 8613
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:19 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Pretty sure driving manual vs automatic has a huge impact on brake life span as well. I downshift where a lot of people with automatics would be braking.

I had a mechanic friend of mine years ago tell me to stop down shifting to slow down and just use the brakes. He said he encountered a lot of people that do that, they don't to use the brakes to be cool or something or they don't want to wear the brakes. Then he pointed out to me that A.) brakes are designed for this task and very durable, and that B.) to add wear to the clutch was silly as it costs a lot more to replace than any brake job.

So I stopped downshifting to slow down (other than hills etc. where you need to)

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:32 pm

Tugger wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Pretty sure driving manual vs automatic has a huge impact on brake life span as well. I downshift where a lot of people with automatics would be braking.

I had a mechanic friend of mine years ago tell me to stop down shifting to slow down and just use the brakes. He said he encountered a lot of people that do that, they don't to use the brakes to be cool or something or they don't want to wear the brakes. Then he pointed out to me that A.) brakes are designed for this task and very durable, and that B.) to add wear to the clutch was silly as it costs a lot more to replace than any brake job.

So I stopped downshifting to slow down (other than hills etc. where you need to)

Tugg


I've been driving for 18 years, have only had 2 different cars, never needed a new clutch. People who kill their clutches just suck at driving. That's ~ 150,000 miles driven total without wearing a clutch out.

Maybe your mechanic friend just wanted to sell you some brake parts...
 
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Tugger
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:48 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Pretty sure driving manual vs automatic has a huge impact on brake life span as well. I downshift where a lot of people with automatics would be braking.

I had a mechanic friend of mine years ago tell me to stop down shifting to slow down and just use the brakes. He said he encountered a lot of people that do that, they don't to use the brakes to be cool or something or they don't want to wear the brakes. Then he pointed out to me that A.) brakes are designed for this task and very durable, and that B.) to add wear to the clutch was silly as it costs a lot more to replace than any brake job.

So I stopped downshifting to slow down (other than hills etc. where you need to)

Tugg


I've been driving for 18 years, have only had 2 different cars, never needed a new clutch. People who kill their clutches just suck at driving. That's ~ 150,000 miles driven total without wearing a clutch out.

Maybe your mechanic friend just wanted to sell you some brake parts...

No, I never used him. I do my own brakes. (Never could get my head around the $200+ cost of labor for something so easy.) I also did not have to replace the clutch in the 180,000 miles I owned that particular car but the fact is added wear is added wear.

Anyway, not meaning to be attacking how anyone drives. And of course you have to down shift as part of normal driving of any manual, just reflecting on doing so for the sole purpose of slowing down (as for when one approaches a stop light, I always took pride in being able to plan and downshift properly to come to a near stop in time for most stop i had to make).

No offense intended.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
mham001
Posts: 5135
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:10 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Footnote;
In recent years, I have had the dubious pleasure of replacing not only my disc pads, but also the discs (rotors) themselves. It is a surprisingly easy task (on my vehicles at least), but I queried why it was happening so frequently. The answer I received was that pads are now constructed from modern (non-asbestos) ultra hard material, whilst the brake discs themselves are made from Chinese scrap metal. This combination of factors results in a situation where discs can wear out as quickly as pads.
Don't you just love the modern world....


You can always buy better quality pads and usually rotors too. There are many composites of brake pads. Do not buy from the national chain stores (I'm not sure about NAPA), go where the better mechanics go or order online.
 
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trpmb6
Posts: 1804
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:21 pm

Tugger wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Tugger wrote:
I had a mechanic friend of mine years ago tell me to stop down shifting to slow down and just use the brakes. He said he encountered a lot of people that do that, they don't to use the brakes to be cool or something or they don't want to wear the brakes. Then he pointed out to me that A.) brakes are designed for this task and very durable, and that B.) to add wear to the clutch was silly as it costs a lot more to replace than any brake job.

So I stopped downshifting to slow down (other than hills etc. where you need to)

Tugg


I've been driving for 18 years, have only had 2 different cars, never needed a new clutch. People who kill their clutches just suck at driving. That's ~ 150,000 miles driven total without wearing a clutch out.

Maybe your mechanic friend just wanted to sell you some brake parts...

No, I never used him. I do my own brakes. (Never could get my head around the $200+ cost of labor for something so easy.) I also did not have to replace the clutch in the 180,000 miles I owned that particular car but the fact is added wear is added wear.

Anyway, not meaning to be attacking how anyone drives. And of course you have to down shift as part of normal driving of any manual, just reflecting on doing so for the sole purpose of slowing down (as for when one approaches a stop light, I always took pride in being able to plan and downshift properly to come to a near stop in time for most stop i had to make).

No offense intended.

Tugg


Mechanically speaking, when you down shift to slow down you're engaging the gears in reverse. So the gear teeth are contacting in the reverse direction from normal. This will have virtually no affect on the life of your clutch. Yes from a fatigue stand point you're now loading the gear teeth in an opposite direction so you're changing your load spectrum's amplitude from something that is 0 load to 100% positive load to something that fully reverses such as 100% negative load to 100% positive load. But you don't do this constantly and it's infrequent enough that for the life of the clutch it is insignificant. (Assuming you do this properly.)

So have no fear, from a loading of the gear perspective it's fine.
 
Okie
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:36 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Footnote;In recent years, I have had the dubious pleasure of replacing not only my disc pads, but also the discs (rotors) themselves. It is a surprisingly easy task (on my vehicles at least), but I queried why it was happening so frequently. The answer I received was that pads are now constructed from modern (non-asbestos) ultra hard material, whilst the brake discs themselves are made from Chinese scrap metal. This combination of factors results in a situation where discs can wear out as quickly as pads. Don't you just love the modern world....


Ran into that issue myself years ago with the pads, the rotors were near perfect.
Replaced factory issue pads with high performance pads. The high performance pads gnawed through the soft cast iron rotors in short order.
So then I had to replace both rotors and pads with matched sets.
You just have to keep the pads and rotors in matched durability.

Lesson learned.


Okie
 
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fr8mech
Posts: 7437
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:28 am

casinterest wrote:

Just google brake pads and your car model on youtube for an idea if it is worth your time.
I got all 4 brakes and rotors done in about 90 minutes. 70 minutes for the 2nd after I figured out how to get the pads and shriekers back in I was shocked that Amazon shipped the rotors free of charge. They weight 30-40 pounds each.


As I mentioned, I've done them before, and would be comfortable doing them again, if I needed too. But, I don't need to. I have the means to pay someone to do them. I have determined that that my time, the warranty, the clean-up, the "taking care of incidentals", is worth paying the up-charge to having them done by a shop.

Jouhou wrote:
but it appears the manufacturer can't even cough up the money for a few 316 stainless nuts in strategic high-corrosion areas? Come on.


Agreed.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:07 am

Isn't a 5K interval servicing very low ? Here it's between 20K (Km) or 30K.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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fr8mech
Posts: 7437
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:46 am

Aesma wrote:
Isn't a 5K interval servicing very low ? Here it's between 20K (Km) or 30K.


Well, according to the Toyota's 2012 Camry Warranty and Maintenance Guide, they would like to see you every 5000 miles.

https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/documen ... ry_WMG.pdf

Gotta love it.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
 
Airstud
Topic Author
Posts: 4286
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:29 am

Mine's a Corolla.

Oil change, tire rotation, check/top off the fluids, visually inspect this and that. The 5K interval servicing usually costs me between $40 and $75 or so. The 60K one was a couple hundred 'cause apparently they really tear it up for that one :boggled:


Even though I'd rather have a car with comfier upholstery, a better stereo, a sunroof/moonroof, and a transmission that actually knows to downshift when the car slows from 55 to 25 and also starts going up a hill.... :banghead:

...I still have to acknowledge, this car has been incredibly reliable. Had to replace a tire early on because I hit a nail, had to replace the license plate light bulb, had to replace the washer fluid hose 'cause a squirrel had probably chewed through it... those are the only "repairs" it's needed. And I've driven it roundtrip from Minneapolis to Santa Fe - twice; and from Minneapolis to Boston, also twice.

Toyotas won't give you a headache.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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WildcatYXU
Posts: 2941
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Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:24 pm

Aesma wrote:
Isn't a 5K interval servicing very low ? Here it's between 20K (Km) or 30K.


No. Your's is too long. Especially with the state of art small but quite powerful engines.
310, 319, 320, 321, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
Okie
Posts: 3924
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

Re: Brake linings vs. "lines"

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:09 pm

fr8mech wrote:
Well, according to the Toyota's 2012 Camry Warranty and Maintenance Guide, they would like to see you every 5000 miles.


All Toyota's and Faux Camry (Lexus) go by mileage to turn on "Maint Light" at 5K intervals. Ms Okie's got Mobil One oil and I would reset the indicator and would go 10K on maintenance.

All the GM products I have owned go by injector count. Lots of highway miles 7.6K or more, sitting in traffic, stop lights or running the engine for heating/cooling it gets it down to 4K or so before giving the "Change Oil". Do not get me going on the "Dexos" GM license that Oil companies have to pay in order to maintain GM warranty specs for their products instead of meeting SAE requirements.

I have no idea what other brands use for indication.

Okie

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