coolian2
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:26 pm

seb146 wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

ah, I see.... History is wrong, you are right. Good to know.

And, yet, Fred Trump still made millions with high tax rates. But, again, history is wrong, you are right.

Well Donald could actually be a billionaire without those taxes


And that is important...... why?

I would rather have affordable health care, affordable housing, affordable schools, not crumbling infrastructure than have one man be a billionaire.

Agreed. I'm paying 30% on income and 28% on my retirement fund, along with a 15% sales tax on almost everything. Funny it doesn't destroy my below average income, I wonder why it's so crippling to millionaires?
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MaverickM11
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:20 am

DL717 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Yup. Always happens when people grow up and realize life takes work.

Yep the Trump/Kushner/Bush/Falwell/Graham offspring would not have gotten where they are today without work. And by work I mean 'uge hand me downs from daddy, because otherwise they'd all be eating paint chips under a bridge somewhere.


TDR alert!!! Whoop, whoop. TDR alert!

TDR?

coolian2 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Alarm is working overtime today.


ah, I see.... History is wrong, you are right. Good to know.

And, yet, Fred Trump still made millions with high tax rates. But, again, history is wrong, you are right.

Well Donald could actually be a billionaire without those taxes

Tough to believe banks wouldn't touch him with a barge pole if he was so rich...
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
KICT
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:52 am

coolian2 wrote:
Well Donald could actually be a billionaire without those taxes

Thought he already was? Poor Donald.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
bgm
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:13 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Yep the Trump/Kushner/Bush/Falwell/Graham offspring would not have gotten where they are today without work. And by work I mean 'uge hand me downs from daddy, because otherwise they'd all be eating paint chips under a bridge somewhere.


TDR alert!!! Whoop, whoop. TDR alert!

TDR?


Urban Dictionary gives some interesting explanations.

TDR (Two Dudes Riding) A situation when two males are riding on a motorvehicle where the one males legs are wrapped around the other. Commonly occurs on motorcycles or waverunners.


Triple Dutch Rudder: (v) it is when three guys hold his own penis with one arm while holding the other guy's arm with the other and slowly moving the other guy's arm up and down. (v) a man giving another man pleasure without holding the other man's penis.


https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TDR

:rotfl:
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LittleFokker
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:55 pm

Matt Taibbi has an excellent article about the AOC phenomenon:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... ssion=true
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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DL717
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:50 am

LittleFokker wrote:
Matt Taibbi has an excellent article about the AOC phenomenon:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... ssion=true


Nobody is freaking out, well, maybe the left is. The rest are laughing. Seriously, can’t wait for the next gaff. She’s like Quayle and Biden wrapped up in a female body.
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bgm
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:55 pm

DL717 wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:
Matt Taibbi has an excellent article about the AOC phenomenon:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... ssion=true


Nobody is freaking out, well, maybe the left is. The rest are laughing. Seriously, can’t wait for the next gaff. She’s like Quayle and Biden wrapped up in a female body.


Just out of curiosity, what is your take on Trump's daily gaffes?
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dmg626
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:38 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... nored.html

So according to the village idiot we only have 12 years anyways, she seriously needs some mental help
 
FreequentFlier
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:36 pm

2122M wrote:
OK, so right-wing obejections on this forum so far are:

Lies about things she said as a joke in the past
Insults about her eyes/looks
Being called out for not getting a desirable committee seat as a 1st year congresswoman.
Claims that she is pro-communism (like to see a source for that...)
A little bit of dyslexia. (ACO??)


No, our objections to her is that she has repeatedly demonstrated she has no knowledge of basic public policy and is a complete moron.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:41 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
No, our objections to her is that she has repeatedly demonstrated she has no knowledge of basic public policy and is a complete moron.


Not too different from a certain person in White House :duck:

(More seriously, once the media stop reporting each and every outrageous things either Drumpf or AOC says, they'll go away, but hey, they need the viewers and ratings and the revenue from those ads :scratchchin: ).
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
FreequentFlier
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:43 pm

johnboy wrote:
Trigger warning! Link to Slate!

“The trouble is, whenever conservatives think they’ve caught Ocasio-Cortez espousing a position too terrifyingly leftist for America, she ends up sounding reasonable instead. Recall when Fox News host Sean Hannity posted a list of her supposedly radical positions on screen. There were a few that might sound scary to conservatives (“federal jobs guarantee,” “abolish ICE,” “Medicare for all”) but plenty that seemed like things just about everyone likes (“support seniors,” “clean campaign finance,” “criminal justice reform”). The more the right tries to signal its disapproval of the Ocasio-Cortez agenda, the more it sounds jealous that progressives are more amped about her than conservatives are about, I don’t know, Sen. Lindsey Graham.”

https://amp.slate.com/news-and-politics ... essed.html


Wow, she has taken positions such as...”supports seniors”? I take back everything I’ve said about her. AOC is an intellectual titan and we are lucky to have her.
 
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:45 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
No, our objections to her is that she has repeatedly demonstrated she has no knowledge of basic public policy and is a complete moron.


Not too different from a certain person in White House :duck:

(More seriously, once the media stop reporting each and every outrageous things either Drumpf or AOC says, they'll go away, but hey, they need the viewers and ratings and the revenue from those ads :scratchchin: ).


If the best comparison one can muster about you is that you’re the left wing version of Trump, then you’re doing it wrong.
 
FreequentFlier
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:50 pm

dmg626 wrote:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6617789/Ocasio-Cortez-says-Millennials-believe-world-end-12-YEARS-climate-change-ignored.html

So according to the village idiot we only have 12 years anyways, she seriously needs some mental help


If this moron was elected to anything material, we probably would only have 12 years left. The idiots who would elect her deserve the consequences a presidency like hers would bestow on them. Just as the Chavistas have suffered the most under Chavez and now Maduro’s regime, I’d have zero sympathy for anyone stupid enough to vote for someone like her.
 
bgm
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:57 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6617789/Ocasio-Cortez-says-Millennials-believe-world-end-12-YEARS-climate-change-ignored.html

So according to the village idiot we only have 12 years anyways, she seriously needs some mental help


If this moron was elected to anything material, we probably would only have 12 years left. The idiots who would elect her deserve the consequences a presidency like hers would bestow on them. Just as the Chavistas have suffered the most under Chavez and now Maduro’s regime, I’d have zero sympathy for anyone stupid enough to vote for someone like her.


And how about those who voted for Trump? Seeing as we're talking about stupidity and stuff.
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seb146
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:01 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6617789/Ocasio-Cortez-says-Millennials-believe-world-end-12-YEARS-climate-change-ignored.html

So according to the village idiot we only have 12 years anyways, she seriously needs some mental help


If this moron was elected to anything material, we probably would only have 12 years left. The idiots who would elect her deserve the consequences a presidency like hers would bestow on them. Just as the Chavistas have suffered the most under Chavez and now Maduro’s regime, I’d have zero sympathy for anyone stupid enough to vote for someone like her.


So, let's review:

A majority of the few who bothered to vote in one district in New York state voted for her.
She will be the next president, according to the very loudest MAGA fan boys. Never mind that she is too young by law.
She wants tax rates taken back to 1950s rates when, apparently, was the most horrendous, lawless, evil time in American history.
She is a freshman Representative.

Because of all of this from one woman, the Republic will fail.
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Flighty
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:04 pm

seb146 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6617789/Ocasio-Cortez-says-Millennials-believe-world-end-12-YEARS-climate-change-ignored.html

So according to the village idiot we only have 12 years anyways, she seriously needs some mental help


If this moron was elected to anything material, we probably would only have 12 years left. The idiots who would elect her deserve the consequences a presidency like hers would bestow on them. Just as the Chavistas have suffered the most under Chavez and now Maduro’s regime, I’d have zero sympathy for anyone stupid enough to vote for someone like her.


So, let's review:

A majority of the few who bothered to vote in one district in New York state voted for her.
She will be the next president, according to the very loudest MAGA fan boys. Never mind that she is too young by law.
She wants tax rates taken back to 1950s rates when, apparently, was the most horrendous, lawless, evil time in American history.
She is a freshman Representative.

Because of all of this from one woman, the Republic will fail.


It might. People are more and more innumerate as time goes on. The middle class is smaller and smaller. As the government has grown, many people have known no other life than a government provided one.

As regulation has increased, it is harder to run a business. So fewer people do it. Perhaps the majority of people have never been involved with a business before. So if they hear business is evil, they have no real context other than to believe it. And I absolutely include the highly educated and academics in that. Journalists are part of a business, although their disdain for "business side" is so strong they might as well not be affliated.

This may be the first time in American history people are open to Communism. So, yes, combined with a lack of history education / experience with Communism, we might have to rediscover what Mao and Stalin discovered for their people. I try to keep a sense of humor about things, but the incredible famines and deaths we are talking about revisiting are sad. The government does not know how to employ you. The government does not know how to make your food or your housing. If the government pays you to do nothing, nothing is what you will receive from others as well. All will be cold, hungry and dying. I wish this were an exaggeration. It sounds unbelievable. Communism works unbelievably poorly.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:13 pm

Flighty wrote:
seb146 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

If this moron was elected to anything material, we probably would only have 12 years left. The idiots who would elect her deserve the consequences a presidency like hers would bestow on them. Just as the Chavistas have suffered the most under Chavez and now Maduro’s regime, I’d have zero sympathy for anyone stupid enough to vote for someone like her.


So, let's review:

A majority of the few who bothered to vote in one district in New York state voted for her.
She will be the next president, according to the very loudest MAGA fan boys. Never mind that she is too young by law.
She wants tax rates taken back to 1950s rates when, apparently, was the most horrendous, lawless, evil time in American history.
She is a freshman Representative.

Because of all of this from one woman, the Republic will fail.


It might. People are more and more innumerate as time goes on. The middle class is smaller and smaller. As the government has grown, many people have known no other life than a government provided one.

As regulation has increased, it is harder to run a business. So fewer people do it. Perhaps the majority of people have never been involved with a business before. So if they hear business is evil, they have no real context other than to believe it. And I absolutely include the highly educated and academics in that. Journalists are part of a business, although their disdain for "business side" is so strong they might as well not be affliated.

This may be the first time in American history people are open to Communism. So, yes, combined with a lack of history education / experience with Communism, we might have to rediscover what Mao and Stalin discovered for their people. I try to keep a sense of humor about things, but the incredible famines and deaths we are talking about revisiting are sad. The government does not know how to employ you. The government does not know how to make your food or your housing. If the government pays you to do nothing, nothing is what you will receive from others as well. All will be cold, hungry and dying. I wish this were an exaggeration. It sounds unbelievable. Communism works unbelievably poorly.


Why are you discussing Communism in a thread about Cortez? She isn't a communist. This feels like a rant you want to make about something but it is in the wrong thread.
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Flighty
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:02 pm

Casinterest, socialism is the employment of communist systems with some percentage of the economy controlled by the private sector. What percentage do they have in mind? By the sounds of it, not very much. As you get to extreme socialism, it becomes Communism. I note that the USSR stood for Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
 
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seb146
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:00 am

Flighty wrote:
seb146 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

If this moron was elected to anything material, we probably would only have 12 years left. The idiots who would elect her deserve the consequences a presidency like hers would bestow on them. Just as the Chavistas have suffered the most under Chavez and now Maduro’s regime, I’d have zero sympathy for anyone stupid enough to vote for someone like her.


So, let's review:

A majority of the few who bothered to vote in one district in New York state voted for her.
She will be the next president, according to the very loudest MAGA fan boys. Never mind that she is too young by law.
She wants tax rates taken back to 1950s rates when, apparently, was the most horrendous, lawless, evil time in American history.
She is a freshman Representative.

Because of all of this from one woman, the Republic will fail.


It might. People are more and more innumerate as time goes on. The middle class is smaller and smaller. As the government has grown, many people have known no other life than a government provided one.

As regulation has increased, it is harder to run a business. So fewer people do it. Perhaps the majority of people have never been involved with a business before. So if they hear business is evil, they have no real context other than to believe it. And I absolutely include the highly educated and academics in that. Journalists are part of a business, although their disdain for "business side" is so strong they might as well not be affliated.

This may be the first time in American history people are open to Communism. So, yes, combined with a lack of history education / experience with Communism, we might have to rediscover what Mao and Stalin discovered for their people. I try to keep a sense of humor about things, but the incredible famines and deaths we are talking about revisiting are sad. The government does not know how to employ you. The government does not know how to make your food or your housing. If the government pays you to do nothing, nothing is what you will receive from others as well. All will be cold, hungry and dying. I wish this were an exaggeration. It sounds unbelievable. Communism works unbelievably poorly.


You are confused about a lot of things. Communism vs. socialism vs. Stalinism vs. capitalsm.... You get all of them in there and understand none of them. Let alone our own. Could it be the middle class is shrinking not because of government regulation but because hyper capitalism is failing the middle class? People have to take horrible paying jobs and get government assistance because they were sold a failed bill of goods? This notion of "give everything to the top so they can provide for everyone" has failed. We all know it. We all see it. Some of us blame those of us working and falling from the middle class, some of us blame the system that made this possible.

Government knows how to keep our food safe from things like DDT and lead. Do you honestly believe that private corporations, out of the goodness of their hearts, would simply give away food? Too many Americans are cold, hungry, and dying because these mega corporations decided that profit is more important than people. What's a few thousand dead to make millions a month?
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casinterest
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:01 am

Flighty wrote:
Casinterest, socialism is the employment of communist systems with some percentage of the economy controlled by the private sector. What percentage do they have in mind? By the sounds of it, not very much. As you get to extreme socialism, it becomes Communism. I note that the USSR stood for Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.


Well that has to be a dumb definition. By your definition the US is communist because "some" percentage is controlled by the private sector.
But please show me where Cortez has it on her platform to take over Private businesses. Her platform is to the left,. but i do not see any "communism" there.
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DL717
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:52 am

bgm wrote:
DL717 wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:
Matt Taibbi has an excellent article about the AOC phenomenon:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... ssion=true


Nobody is freaking out, well, maybe the left is. The rest are laughing. Seriously, can’t wait for the next gaff. She’s like Quayle and Biden wrapped up in a female body.


Just out of curiosity, what is your take on Trump's daily gaffes?


He’s just an ahole, but he’s not Hillary. He was the only one willing to swim in the sewer with her. He won, she lost. You’ll have to get over it.
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WarRI1
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:04 am

As a Man in a Mid West state who was quoted saying in my local paper today about his vote for trump, what the hell was I thinking. I can provide a link if there are doubters.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
ImperialEagle
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:53 am

The bug-eyed whackadoodle and her pals will most certainly have their following of useful idiots to cheer them on. But, the spotlight will be on them. It won't take long for them to crash and burn.

From the Independent Sentinel:
http://www.independentsentinel.com/hous ... embership/
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
bgm
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:51 pm

To the replies from the old white men here who are freaking out: thanks for the inspiration for a new signature! Bless your hearts.. :rotfl:
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bgm
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:13 pm

ImperialEagle wrote:
The bug-eyed whackadoodle and her pals will most certainly have their following of useful idiots to cheer them on. But, the spotlight will be on them. It won't take long for them to crash and burn.

From the Independent Sentinel:
http://www.independentsentinel.com/hous ... embership/


Why are you quoting from a right wing garbage rag?

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/independent-sentinel

Image
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy.
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casinterest
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:55 pm

bgm wrote:
ImperialEagle wrote:
The bug-eyed whackadoodle and her pals will most certainly have their following of useful idiots to cheer them on. But, the spotlight will be on them. It won't take long for them to crash and burn.

From the Independent Sentinel:
http://www.independentsentinel.com/hous ... embership/


Why are you quoting from a right wing garbage rag?

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/independent-sentinel

Image
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy.



You are really asking this ?

I just find it funny how threatened the "conservatives" are by a 29 year old woman.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:25 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
As a Man in a Mid West state who was quoted saying in my local paper today about his vote for trump, what the hell was I thinking. I can provide a link if there are doubters.


"Repentance Comes After the Sin".
 
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seb146
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:17 pm

Here is trickle down economics hard at work

https://thinkprogress.org/26-billionair ... UHaVeBRrDc

Twenty six individuals hold as much wealth as half the planet's population. But, let's give those 26 more because reasons.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
NIKV69
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:23 am

LittleFokker wrote:
Matt Taibbi has an excellent article about the AOC phenomenon:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... ssion=true


So a guy who hates successful people is trying to say that someone who also hates successful people who is dumb isn't dumb because all politicians are dumb.

You can't make this up.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
bgm
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:22 am

NIKV69 wrote:
You can't make this up.


Oh, but you can. And you do.
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seb146
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:04 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:
Matt Taibbi has an excellent article about the AOC phenomenon:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... ssion=true


So a guy who hates successful people is trying to say that someone who also hates successful people who is dumb isn't dumb because all politicians are dumb.

You can't make this up.


Maybe we should elect someone to the White House that has never been in politics and speaks his mind and does what he wants and not the political establishment? oh, wait......
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
NIKV69
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:23 pm

bgm wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
You can't make this up.


Oh, but you can. And you do.


I am not the one proposing a 70% tax rate but don't worry socialism can work just ask Venezuela
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
bgm
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:28 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
bgm wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
You can't make this up.


Oh, but you can. And you do.


I am not the one proposing a 70% tax rate but don't worry socialism can work just ask Venezuela


Are you that stupid that you think that Venezuela is the only country that is socialist? Have you ever heard of Scandinavia or most of Western Europe? Try looking it up sometime. :sarcastic:
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casinterest
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:31 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
bgm wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
You can't make this up.


Oh, but you can. And you do.


I am not the one proposing a 70% tax rate but don't worry socialism can work just ask Venezuela


70+% worked in the 50's in the USA. But I guess the US was socialist by your standards.

https://www.tax-brackets.org/federaltaxtable/1955
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MaverickM11
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:49 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
bgm wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
You can't make this up.


Oh, but you can. And you do.


I am not the one proposing a 70% tax rate but don't worry socialism can work just ask Venezuela

If Venezuela is socialist then the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is democratic
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Magog
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:01 pm

casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
bgm wrote:

Oh, but you can. And you do.


I am not the one proposing a 70% tax rate but don't worry socialism can work just ask Venezuela


70+% worked in the 50's in the USA. But I guess the US was socialist by your standards.

https://www.tax-brackets.org/federaltaxtable/1955

Correct me if I’m wrong, but nobody actually paid that rate, did they? Wasn’t the effective tax rate much lower?

EDIT: Yes, it was. This article is very interesting. The rich are paying more taxes now than ever according to the article.

https://mises.org/library/good-ol-days- ... 90-percent

This is why I can never see AOC’s plan working. The reality is that taxes on the middle class would have to go way up. That’s fine if I get state sponsored health care, but she wants the middle class to pay for much more than that. I doubt that they would have the appetite.

I’d love to see the numbers work, but even she hasn’t been able to make that happen.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:08 pm

Magog wrote:
casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

I am not the one proposing a 70% tax rate but don't worry socialism can work just ask Venezuela


70+% worked in the 50's in the USA. But I guess the US was socialist by your standards.

https://www.tax-brackets.org/federaltaxtable/1955

Correct me if I’m wrong, but nobody actually paid that rate, did they? Wasn’t the effective tax rate much lower?

EDIT: Yes, it was. This article is very interesting. The rich are paying more taxes now than ever according to the article.

https://mises.org/library/good-ol-days- ... 90-percent

This is why I can never see AOC’s plan working. The reality is that taxes on the middle class would have to go way up. That’s fine if I get state sponsored health care, but she wants the middle class to pay for much more than that. I doubt that they would have the appetite.

I’d love to see the numbers work, but even she hasn’t been able to make that happen.



Your math doesn't work.
As the tax rate for the rich came down over the last 60 years, the middle class and lower class taxes have had to rize to keep the average tax rate at the level it currently is.

We have a progressive tax rate for a reason. Everyone pays the same rate up to a level. Then after that level, if you make enough, you pay a higher rate. It allows everyone a chance to purchase the basics with the lower tax level.


70% or 90% is a bit excessive, but so is 22 trillion in debt, and the continued wideing of the income gap in the USA. If we don't start taxing more, we will become venezueala when the lower and middle classes can no longer afford basic necessities as inflation hits, and the dollar plunges.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:23 pm

There was another article I read recently that noted that the effective tax rate in the 50's was much lower than that 90% due to the myriad of deductions available. This article actually shows the top 1% barely paid more then than they do now. This one isn't what i was looking for necessarily, but https://taxfoundation.org/taxes-rich-1950-not-high/

casinterest can you provide supporting evidence for your claim that the middle class and lower class taxes have had to rise to keep the average tax rate level? We can see from my link above that yes, the total revenue collected by the government remains around 17-20 percent of GDP. But what isn't clear is whether or not it is upward movement of the middle class causing the increase in revenue generated by the middle class, or if it is due to rates actually being increased on the middle class. Also, we need to always be looking at *effective* rates. Must take into account the deductions available at the time, and not just what the posted rates were for that year.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:29 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
There was another article I read recently that noted that the effective tax rate in the 50's was much lower than that 90% due to the myriad of deductions available. This article actually shows the top 1% barely paid more then than they do now. This one isn't what i was looking for necessarily, but https://taxfoundation.org/taxes-rich-1950-not-high/

casinterest can you provide supporting evidence for your claim that the middle class and lower class taxes have had to rise to keep the average tax rate level? We can see from my link above that yes, the total revenue collected by the government remains around 17-20 percent of GDP. But what isn't clear is whether or not it is upward movement of the middle class causing the increase in revenue generated by the middle class, or if it is due to rates actually being increased on the middle class. Also, we need to always be looking at *effective* rates. Must take into account the deductions available at the time, and not just what the posted rates were for that year.



https://taxfoundation.org/taxes-rich-1950-not-high/

"The data shows that, between 1950 and 1959, t
he top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average of 42.0 percent of their income in federal, state, and local taxes.
Since then, the average effective tax rate of the top 1 percent has declined slightly overall. In 2014, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average tax rate of 36.4 percent."


Now that we have slipped another 2.6% off the wealthy in 2019, (and given 100,000 of cusion), the average tax rate will be lower than 35% for those 1%


2014 Tax Brackets

https://taxfoundation.org/2014-tax-brackets/

vs 2019 Tax Brackets

https://taxfoundation.org/2014-tax-brackets/
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:33 pm

I did some digging

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statist ... households

This covers 1979-2015. Seems each quintile has trended downward except for the highest, which has remained flat. Yet total revenues have *Edit: remained flat*, likely due to upward movement from lower quintiles to higher quintiles. Signifying growth of middle and upper incomes.

If you'd like to look directly at the source, this all came from the CBO. I like page 18 as it shows the tabulated data from above in a nice line graph: https://www.cbo.gov/system/files?file=2 ... 2015_0.pdf
Last edited by trpmb6 on Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:37 pm

casinterest wrote:
https://taxfoundation.org/taxes-rich-1950-not-high/

"The data shows that, between 1950 and 1959, t
he top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average of 42.0 percent of their income in federal, state, and local taxes.
Since then, the average effective tax rate of the top 1 percent has declined slightly overall. In 2014, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average tax rate of 36.4 percent."


Now that we have slipped another 2.6% off the wealthy in 2019, (and given 100,000 of cusion), the average tax rate will be lower than 35% for those 1%


2014 Tax Brackets

https://taxfoundation.org/2014-tax-brackets/

vs 2019 Tax Brackets

https://taxfoundation.org/2014-tax-brackets/


One must also consider the deductions available and look at the *effective* rate. Not just published brackets.
 
sccutler
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:12 am

seb146 wrote:
Here is trickle down economics hard at work

https://thinkprogress.org/26-billionair ... UHaVeBRrDc

Twenty six individuals hold as much wealth as half the planet's population. But, let's give those 26 more because reasons.


Nobody rationally proposes to "give more" to the richest people; but as long as you characterize the idea of taking less from taxpayers (including the very wealthy) as being a "gift" to anyone, you are buying into failed doctrine. Time has proven to us that government does very little well, and is best limited to that narrow category of things which it must do. Even then, ineptitude is the order of the day.

At this stage in my life, I am confident that I will never be a "wealthy" person (although by the standards of most any third world country, I certainly am - but by those standards, I was when I was 20 years old, and had no money in the bank but did have a job, and a roof over my head). Notwithstanding that reality, though, I do not resent those who are m ore successful than I, so long as they accomplished their success without criminal activity.

The painful reality is that, the more produced wealth is extracted from those responsible for producing it, the less wealth (for everyone) produced. It is inevitable, as certain as death, gravity and inertia.

Suggestion (directed at no one in particular): if your first impulse when you read an opinion with which you disagree is to disregard it because of the source, rather than evaluate it for possible merit, you're choosing ignorance over enlightenment. When I read opinions, I neither disregard nor credit them based upon the age, race, social station or other characteristic of the person sharing them; I try very hard to read and understand them. Over the years, I have often found my views on issues change from those I held at a younger age.

By way of illustration, I have concluded, for a lot of reasons, that the negative aspects associated with the death penalty substantially outweigh any hypothetical benefit it might convey, and I no longer favor it. This is a change. I can describe this change in my thinking to friends who are, by any account, "conservative," and had discovered that even where they disagree with my conclusion, they don't seem compelled to call me an idiot, to yell at me, or to say that I'm not qualified to have that opinion based upon some irrelevant demographic reason.

As for the new Representative from New York, I'm amazed at much of what she proposes, and regard it as profoundly misguided. Not going to call her an idiot, though - after all, she has managed to elevate herself, at the ripe old age of 29, to a position which, if properly managed, will relieve her of the burden of actual productive work for the balance of her natural life, something I've never managed to accomplish.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
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seb146
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:04 am

So, now we have "we need to quantify wealth according to this source" vs. "that is not wealth because this source says so" and "the rich are not rich that way but this way"

Splitting hairs. The whole point is the rich are getting richer and the poor getting poorer because of the Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
salttee
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:12 am

sccutler wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Time has proven to us that government does very little well

That sounds much more like a libertarian (thoughtless) slogan than a fact.
Over the last 200 years or so our government has done a lot well.
 
sccutler
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:06 am

salttee wrote:
sccutler wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Time has proven to us that government does very little well

That sounds much more like a libertarian (thoughtless) slogan than a fact.
Over the last 200 years or so our government has done a lot well.


Notwithstanding your clumsy effort to marginalize the point, it is not a slogan; it is an observation.

Our government has done "a lot" well, especially by comparison to many other governments; but there is much more that it has done poorly, and certainly less well than could have been accomplished by better means.

There are things appropriate for government to do, but they are narrowly-targeted and few.

Adjusting wealth to suit social norms is the very antithesis of what government should do; in trying, they would most certainly ensure greater misery for most (except, of course, for those in government).
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
salttee
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:47 am

sccutler wrote:
Adjusting wealth to suit social norms is the very antithesis of what government should do; in trying, they would most certainly ensure greater misery for most (except, of course, for those in government).

How can anyone see Libertarians as anything but chumps when virtually all of them are middle class or less and usually lower middle class and they want to take wealth away from things that will directly benefit them and their families and hand it to the uber wealthy who from the time of the Roman senators until today have proven themselves callous and uncaring about the plight of the commoner?

Are the Libertarians in the 21st century so stupid as to still believe in the trickle down theory?
 
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seb146
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:34 am

sccutler wrote:
salttee wrote:
sccutler wrote:

That sounds much more like a libertarian (thoughtless) slogan than a fact.
Over the last 200 years or so our government has done a lot well.


Notwithstanding your clumsy effort to marginalize the point, it is not a slogan; it is an observation.

Our government has done "a lot" well, especially by comparison to many other governments; but there is much more that it has done poorly, and certainly less well than could have been accomplished by better means.

There are things appropriate for government to do, but they are narrowly-targeted and few.

Adjusting wealth to suit social norms is the very antithesis of what government should do; in trying, they would most certainly ensure greater misery for most (except, of course, for those in government).


The United States government actually did a very good job of helping white people gain wealth until the 1980s. After then, it helped people with connections and already wealthy get rich.

The United States government also helped corporations get rich. We all know that corporations are people. Through war and mergers, corporations... I mean PEOPLE got very rich through the government removing restrictions. That is why everyone did so well in 2008? The government was capitalist with the gains but socialist, communist, marxist with the losses. The very wealthy got even richer off their government deregulation but demanded we working class take the hit when THEY crashed the economy. And they will do it again and people like you will gladly insist on it.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:27 pm

seb146 wrote:
The whole point is the rich are getting richer and the poor getting poorer because...


...because the rich own Washington.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:04 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
https://taxfoundation.org/taxes-rich-1950-not-high/

"The data shows that, between 1950 and 1959, tSince then, the average effective tax rate of the top 1 percent has declined slightly overall. In 2014, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average tax rate of 36.4 percent."


Now that we have slipped another 2.6% off the wealthy in 2019, (and given 100,000 of cusion), the average tax rate will be lower than 35% for those 1%


2014 Tax Brackets

https://taxfoundation.org/2014-tax-brackets/

vs 2019 Tax Brackets

https://taxfoundation.org/2014-tax-brackets/


One must also consider the deductions available and look at the *effective* rate. Not just published brackets.

One must also consider the income gap and the budget deficit.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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johnboy
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Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The It Girl

Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:42 am

Just thought I’d put this here:

Liking her more and more. I’ll take conservatives’ silly protestations as delicious, milk chocolate tears of joy!


https://forums.talkingpointsmemo.com/t/ ... ting/83740

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