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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:53 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:

Support for UKIP was lower at the last election because we expected to be leaving the wretched EU today. Unfortunately Parliament has let us all down.


read what I said.... last European election

UKIP had 26.6% vote share in 2014... they are nowhere near that now.... not even close.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:57 pm

I'm signing off for the weekend

enjoy #NoBrexitDay everyone... I'l be enjoying a glass of fine french wine tonight, heck, maybe even some Prosecco :bouncy:
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:57 pm

Richard28 wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Support for UKIP was lower at the last election because we expected to be leaving the wretched EU today. Unfortunately Parliament has let us all down.


read what I said.... last European election

UKIP had 26.6% vote share in 2014... they are nowhere near that now.... not even close.


And since that time 17,000,000 people have been screwed over.

I know there is general disinterest in Euro elections in the UK, but UKIP will attract most votes if we are forced to partake this in this pointless exercise.

I know Parliament rejected no deal, but Parliament has rejected all options. No deal is our default option and nothing will get agreed before April 12th.
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:00 pm

Richard28 wrote:
but I promise there are some good people left.

I know and I’ve said it before that I do really feel sorry for the people who want to remain. But your government has made a huge cluserf.ck of this proces and there is no time left.
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:02 pm

seahawk wrote:
So Brexiteers are now hoping for the EU to bring the Brexit to them.... if you thought it could not get any stranger.

And when there are no unicorns and rainbows, guess who gets the blame of those idiots?
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:08 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Support for UKIP was lower at the last election because we expected to be leaving the wretched EU today. Unfortunately Parliament has let us all down.


read what I said.... last European election

UKIP had 26.6% vote share in 2014... they are nowhere near that now.... not even close.


And since that time 17,000,000 people have been screwed over.

I know there is general disinterest in Euro elections in the UK, but UKIP will attract most votes if we are forced to partake this in this pointless exercise.

I know Parliament rejected no deal, but Parliament has rejected all options. No deal is our default option and nothing will get agreed before April 12th.

A lot more than those 17,000,000 - ignorant and narrowminded - people will be screwed, but let it happen.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:09 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Parliament has let the people down and all we can hope for now is the no deal so many of us crave so badly.


Only the extremist minority want a no-deal Brexit. It's a good job MPs have more sense.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:14 pm

marcelh wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:

read what I said.... last European election

UKIP had 26.6% vote share in 2014... they are nowhere near that now.... not even close.


And since that time 17,000,000 people have been screwed over.

I know there is general disinterest in Euro elections in the UK, but UKIP will attract most votes if we are forced to partake this in this pointless exercise.

I know Parliament rejected no deal, but Parliament has rejected all options. No deal is our default option and nothing will get agreed before April 12th.

A lot more than those 17,000,000 - ignorant and narrowminded - people will be screwed, but let it happen.


Hilarious.

are all people that think differently to you ignorant and narrow minded??

Thank you for making me laugh.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:31 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Long extension now only way, EU elections will follow with either

a) General Election,
b) Confirmatory Referendum
c) revocation

I vote for (b) but would love (c)


Most likely no deal.

The Government does not want a GE
There will be no further public vote.
The EU will not accept an extension as MPs in Parliament have their own agendas.



And Parliament doesn't want no deal and yet you seem to conveniently forget that fact.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:32 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
And since that time 17,000,000 people have been screwed over.


How so? How about the nearly 50 million that didn't vote for Brexit? They'd be screwed over by the no-deal Brexit you so wantonly crave.

Seriously, screwed over? You just claimed no-deal is happening on 12th April. Is a two week delay being screwed over? I'm sure you'll get over it, even if you had to rearrange your Brexit party.

Richard28 wrote:
I'm signing off for the weekend

enjoy #NoBrexitDay everyone... I'l be enjoying a glass of fine french wine tonight, heck, maybe even some Prosecco :bouncy:


:checkmark: :champagne:

Enjoy the weekend and let's see what fun Monday brings.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:33 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

And since that time 17,000,000 people have been screwed over.

I know there is general disinterest in Euro elections in the UK, but UKIP will attract most votes if we are forced to partake this in this pointless exercise.

I know Parliament rejected no deal, but Parliament has rejected all options. No deal is our default option and nothing will get agreed before April 12th.

A lot more than those 17,000,000 - ignorant and narrowminded - people will be screwed, but let it happen.


Hilarious.

are all people that think differently to you ignorant and narrow minded??

Thank you for making me laugh.


You focused on detail yet you miss the point being made........a lot more than those 17,000,000. And your assumption that all those 17m people voted for a hard Brexit is the thing that is laughable. Just shows that you haven't paid any attention in the past 3 years, which is quite remarkable in itself.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:33 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Long extension now only way, EU elections will follow with either

a) General Election,
b) Confirmatory Referendum
c) revocation

I vote for (b) but would love (c)


Most likely no deal.

The Government does not want a GE
There will be no further public vote.
The EU will not accept an extension as MPs in Parliament have their own agendas.



And Parliament doesn't want no deal and yet you seem to conveniently forget that fact.


No I haven’t forgot that.

Parliament cannot agree on anything.

The EU has no reason to offer an extension, hence no deal is our default position.

Have you conveniently forgot that?
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:39 pm

scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
And since that time 17,000,000 people have been screwed over.


How so? How about the nearly 50 million that didn't vote for Brexit? They'd be screwed over by the no-deal Brexit you so wantonly crave.

Seriously, screwed over? You just claimed no-deal is happening on 12th April. Is a two week delay being screwed over? I'm sure you'll get over it, even if you had to rearrange your Brexit party.

Richard28 wrote:
I'm signing off for the weekend

enjoy #NoBrexitDay everyone... I'l be enjoying a glass of fine french wine tonight, heck, maybe even some Prosecco :bouncy:


:checkmark: :champagne:

Enjoy the weekend and let's see what fun Monday brings.


It is bloody obvious that few in Parliament have the will to deliver what the public voted for. We can only go one way now, our default no deal position. An extension benefits no one. Lets get out and make deals from there. If this scares you, try to be reassured.

People waffle on about the 50 million that the did not vote for Brexit, but of those that we entitled to vote, and were able to vote, the majority voted for leave.

We can agree that the 52% of those that did vote, is a fair representation of the will of the UK. There is no reason to think otherwise.

Voter turnout was high. You can flog as many excuses at you like, but really do miss the point don’t you.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:45 pm

The EU is a rules based organization. The UK had a significant influence in making it that way. So now rules have to be followed. I'd rather not have Farage and his ilk back in the EU parliament, but it's still better than not following the rules, because then you've got Rees Mogg and the like talking about getting great deals by shelving EU rules, well no, that's not how it works.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:55 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:


They should have been fully preparing for the worst case as soon as the WA was rejected the 1st time, TM game of brinkmanship has backfired she assumed if she pushed it to the end they will be forced to take her deal. The whole EU position was to punish the UK from the start so if any others were thinking the same they could say look what we did to the UK, this government has done to little to late.

I too don't believe the sky is going to fall down if we leave without a deal, but as Mervyn King says we needed the 6 P's in place first.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:55 pm

Brexit can not be stopped, if it is not delivered now, the next general election in the UK will bring power to a party that will deliver.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:15 pm

scbriml wrote:

How so? How about the nearly 50 million that didn't vote for Brexit? They'd be screwed over by the no-deal Brexit you so wantonly crave.



last time I checked it was 46,500,001 eligible voters and only 33,577,342 actually bothered to vote, so who exactly is the 50 mil that got screwed over?
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:34 pm

Still can't grasp what an advisory vote is ay?

I'd say Parliament is doing a rather spectacular job of representing the result of the referendum. Fortunately, they're finally showing signs of acting in the best interests of the country now, no deal is out, the only deal available is out, which leaves the default postion as remain. ie Revoke article 50 notification (1 motion, 1 vote and done).

Hard cheese, no party for you today.
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:47 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
A lot more than those 17,000,000 - ignorant and narrowminded - people will be screwed, but let it happen.


Hilarious.

are all people that think differently to you ignorant and narrow minded??

Thank you for making me laugh.


You focused on detail yet you miss the point being made........a lot more than those 17,000,000. And your assumption that all those 17m people voted for a hard Brexit is the thing that is laughable. Just shows that you haven't paid any attention in the past 3 years, which is quite remarkable in itself.

He’s missing a whole lot more.... but let him dream about the unicorns and rainbows; ignorance is bliss :mrgreen:
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:58 pm

scbriml wrote:
The irony of being so sure there won't be another public vote is that if the Government had tied the WA to a confirmatory referendum, it would have easily passed. Why are Brexiteers so afraid of this option? Just to clarify, I take Anna Soubry's position on this. Parliament approves WA+PD, public then has vote on Remain in EU vs. Leave EU with no-deal OR Leave with WA+PD. That's it, finished. No further public or Parliamentary voting. What's wrong with that option? Are you afraid you won't get want you want if people actually know what they're voting for?


Would that be legally possible? As I've understood it, when (if) parliament approves the WA, they can't withdraw from it.

scbriml wrote:
I could understand why EU leaders might be reluctant to grant a longer extension, but they really don't want a no-deal Brexit either. But the Government would have to have a plan B, which may be a result of the voting on Monday.


They don't, but a no deal might be the least bad option to some.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:02 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
Still can't grasp what an advisory vote is ay?


So you can’t get over the fact that the government said it will honour the result of the referendum
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:05 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Parliament cannot agree on anything.


It's a little early to claim that and the one thing it has agreed on is to reject no-deal. Overwhelmingly. Three times.

noviorbis77 wrote:
The EU has no reason to offer an extension, hence no deal is our default position.


They do have a reason - they have a lot more sense than the Brextremists that want no-deal. They appreciate the harm that no-deal will do them.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:08 pm

Bostrom wrote:

Would that be legally possible? As I've understood it, when (if) parliament approves the WA, they can't withdraw from it.


That’s my take on it as well


Bostrom wrote:
They don't, but a no deal might be the least bad option to some.



Agree no deal is better than a bad deal
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:28 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
It is bloody obvious that few in Parliament have the will to deliver what the public voted for.


If only they knew what the public actually voted for, because it wasn't specified.

noviorbis77 wrote:
We can only go one way now, our default no deal position.


You were equally sure we'd be out today. Don't count your chickens.

noviorbis77 wrote:
We can agree that the 52% of those that did vote, is a fair representation of the will of the UK. There is no reason to think otherwise.


The narrow majority is clearly not a fair representation of Scotland nor NI. There's no reason to think otherwise.

noviorbis77 wrote:
but really do miss the point don’t you


No more than you constantly missing the point that there's no such thing as "The Brexit", but a whole range of possible Brexits. None of which were specified on the ballot paper.

Bostrom wrote:
Would that be legally possible? As I've understood it, when (if) parliament approves the WA, they can't withdraw from it.


I think it would be possible. Given the WA has failed to gain Parliamentary approval, there's nothing that I'm aware of that would stop the Government putting it forward again with an amendment that required the ratification of a public vote upon Parliament approving it. I'm pretty sure the EU would allow time for that to happen.

A101 wrote:
last time I checked it was 46,500,001 eligible voters and only 33,577,342 actually bothered to vote, so who exactly is the 50 mil that got screwed over?


Just the entire population of the UK that didn't vote for Brexit. They're the ones that get screwed over by a no-deal Brexit. That 50 million.

A101 wrote:
So you can’t get over the fact that the government said it will honour the result of the referendum


You cannot deny that the Government has tried to deliver Brexit. Parliament has so far stopped it. You know, that Parliament that you Brexiteers were constantly whining didn't have sovereignty. Now it's exercising its sovereignty, you don't like the result.

A101 wrote:
Agree no deal is better than a bad deal


Everyone apart from Brextremists thinks it's a very bad idea. But hey, let's all make like lemmings. :banghead:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:32 pm

A101 wrote:

Agree no deal is better than a bad deal


Given we are March 29th 2019, you are still in, the House having rule out no deal several time can you please put this nonsense to rest forever.
Maybe you can now saw : "no deal is as bad as a bad deal" even if that's not accurate either it's at least less stupid.
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:57 pm

scbriml wrote:

It's a little early to claim that and the one thing it has agreed on is to reject no-deal. Overwhelmingly. Three times.


no deal is the default position, no matter how many times the reject, its always on the table



scbriml wrote:

They do have a reason - they have a lot more sense than the Brextremists that want no-deal. They appreciate the harm that no-deal will do them.



If the EU had more sense and want the option off the table, all they had to do was put a time limit on the WA, both sides have agreed to the GFA process the future agreement would have seen to that
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:16 pm

scbriml wrote:
I think it would be possible. Given the WA has failed to gain Parliamentary approval, there's nothing that I'm aware of that would stop the Government putting it forward again with an amendment that required the ratification of a public vote upon Parliament approving it. I'm pretty sure the EU would allow time for that to happen.


That might have worked. An even better way would have been to actually ask parliament what kind of Brexit it wants before starting the negotiations.

A101 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

It's a little early to claim that and the one thing it has agreed on is to reject no-deal. Overwhelmingly. Three times.


no deal is the default position, no matter how many times the reject, its always on the table.


I actually have to agree with A101 on this matter, parliament might just as well have voted to stop the tide. Parliament rejecting no deal does not stop it from happening, unless they have some plan on how to stop it (like revoking A50). They should have listened to Canute the great.
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:35 pm

A101 wrote:
Agree no deal is better than a bad deal


Define "bad deal". The CU option was only 8 votes short on a majority with DUP abstaining. If the DUP suddenly decides to agree to the CU model (which would also mean almost no border), then we would have a majority of 2 for the CU model. Is that a "bad deal"? Apparently not for many MPs.

Meanwhile it looks as if May will try for the fourth time next week. She may even up the stakes by throwing in an election when agreed. You have to give her credit for persistence.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/mps-reject-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-third-time

BTW the article contains one brilliant paragraph:

A Downing Street spokesman highlighted the fact that May’s margin of defeat, 58, was smaller than the 149 majority she lost by earlier this month, and the crushing 230-strong defeat in the first meaningful vote in January. “We are at least going in the right direction,” the spokesman said.


You just cannot make this up, brilliant conclusion by the spokesman. :banghead:
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:55 pm

scbriml wrote:
If only they knew what the public actually voted for, because it wasn't specified.


The referendum gave us two options Remain or Leave, we know the result
What does leave mean?
1. To stop; cease. 2. To stop doing or using. or in our case "To remove oneself from association with or participation in(EU)


scbriml wrote:
You were equally sure we'd be out today. Don't count your chickens.

That I agree with


scbriml wrote:
The narrow majority is clearly not a fair representation of Scotland nor NI. There's no reason to think otherwise.


the result is a representation as a United Kingdom as a whole and the result was acted on in a legally defined referendum which was approved by Parliment


scbriml wrote:
No more than you constantly missing the point that there's no such thing as "The Brexit", but a whole range of possible Brexits. None of which were specified on the ballot paper.


The withdrawal agreement is all about achieving an orderly exit during the transition phase, its the future trade agreement is how the UK interacts with the EU


scbriml wrote:
Just the entire population of the UK that didn't vote for Brexit. They're the ones that get screwed over by a no-deal Brexit. That 50 million.


I wasn't aware of the population explosion that gave us 96,500,001 eligible voters

scbriml wrote:
You cannot deny that the Government has tried to deliver Brexit. Parliament has so far stopped it. You know, that Parliament that you Brexiteers were constantly whining didn't have sovereignty. Now it's exercising its sovereignty, you don't like the result.


well actually so far I'm like the result as it moves us away from TM's BRINO


scbriml wrote:
Everyone apart from Brextremists thinks it's a very bad idea. But hey, let's all make like lemmings. :banghead:


Everyone tripping over themselves that the backstop is the only thing wrong with the WA, unfortunately its not, do you really think its a good idea that we still have to play 100% to the conditions of being a member of the EU but actually cant have a say on anything within it, no veto rights that the EU may implement changes that may be detrimental to the UK.

I don't really see how the EU superstate is anyway beneficial to the UK, gee the EU is really looking out for the Irish

EU tax plan ‘is a bigger threat to Ireland than Brexit’ https://www.irishtimes.com/business/eco ... -1.3220094

EU Commission pushes ahead with plan to end unanimity on tax https://www.irishtimes.com/business/eco ... -1.3746080
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:56 pm

LJ wrote:

Define "bad deal". The CU option was only 8 votes short on a majority with DUP abstaining. If the DUP suddenly decides to agree to the CU model (which would also mean almost no border), then we would have a majority of 2 for the CU model. Is that a "bad deal"? Apparently not for many MPs.

Meanwhile it looks as if May will try for the fourth time next week. She may even up the stakes by throwing in an election when agreed. You have to give her credit for persistence.



You know full well the comment is in context of the WA, I have no problems remaining in the CU whilst in the transition phase until our orderly exist from the EU with a future trade agreement
 
BestWestern
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:30 pm

A101 wrote:
LJ wrote:

Define "bad deal". The CU option was only 8 votes short on a majority with DUP abstaining. If the DUP suddenly decides to agree to the CU model (which would also mean almost no border), then we would have a majority of 2 for the CU model. Is that a "bad deal"? Apparently not for many MPs.

Meanwhile it looks as if May will try for the fourth time next week. She may even up the stakes by throwing in an election when agreed. You have to give her credit for persistence.



You know full well the comment is in context of the WA, I have no problems remaining in the CU whilst in the transition phase until our orderly exist from the EU with a future trade agreement


Can we offer you a unicorn with that sir?

Take your no deal and leave on WTO. Be gone. Let borris or rabb or Jacob be your saviour.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:40 pm

BestWestern wrote:

Take your no deal and leave on WTO. Be gone.


Happy to, its the EU stopping us with these extensions, that should have been happening in 20min :coffee:
 
BestWestern
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:54 pm

A101 wrote:
BestWestern wrote:

Take your no deal and leave on WTO. Be gone.


Happy to, its the EU stopping us with these extensions, that should have been happening in 20min :coffee:


Remind me who asked for an extension? We cannot wait for the brits to piss off.

How’s that new 50p looking like.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:00 pm

Bostrom wrote:
I actually have to agree with A101 on this matter, parliament might just as well have voted to stop the tide. Parliament rejecting no deal does not stop it from happening, unless they have some plan on how to stop it (like revoking A50).


Thank you for making my point. If Parliament really wants to avoid a no-deal Brexit, the option is there.

A101 wrote:
or in our case "To remove oneself from association with or participation in(EU)


That's your interpretation, others have their interpretations. There isn't just one Brexit. Or are you Lord of The Brexit? You have The One Brexit?

A101 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Just the entire population of the UK that didn't vote for Brexit. They're the ones that get screwed over by a no-deal Brexit. That 50 million.


I wasn't aware of the population explosion that gave us 96,500,001 eligible voters


Read what I wrote. I'm talking about the entire population of the UK minus those that voted to leave. 50 million men, women and children. It's pretty simple, they ALL get screwed over by a no-deal Brexit.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:05 pm

BestWestern wrote:
Remind me who asked for an extension?


It's too easy, isn't it? :rotfl: You know Brexiteers and facts don't really go together - in their World the EU forced the extension on us.

BestWestern wrote:
We cannot wait for the brits to piss off.


Sorry, but I really hope you're disappointed.

BestWestern wrote:
How’s that new 50p looking like.


They're being passed round a number of rather flat Brexit parties.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:07 pm

BestWestern wrote:

Remind me who asked for an extension? We cannot wait for the brits to piss off.



What do you thinks going to happen when you keep appeasing her, it’s for this reason you can see that voting until you get the result you want is anything but democratic, she’s going after MV 4 now :banghead:

The EU would not renegotiate the WA, why on earth does it want to keep it going with the extension’s......it creates more division in the UK and might end up with what it wants
 
BestWestern
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:30 pm

A101 wrote:
BestWestern wrote:

Remind me who asked for an extension? We cannot wait for the brits to piss off.



What do you thinks going to happen when you keep appeasing her, it’s for this reason you can see that voting until you get the result you want is anything but democratic, she’s going after MV 4 now :banghead:

The EU would not renegotiate the WA, why on earth does it want to keep it going with the extension’s......it creates more division in the UK and might end up with what it wants


The withdrawal agreement was proposed by May, negotiated and agreed with the European Union.

Why the UK would propose her WA is another discussion. Is all the responsibility of being in the EU with none of the powers to change things. But that’s what borris and Jacob now think is the best thing for the party...
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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Elshad
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:35 pm

Britain was supposed to leave the EU 35 minutes ago. Thank god it hasn't. Britain has been saved. Very soon we will permanently defeat the miserable Brexit project.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:36 pm

A101 wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
Still can't grasp what an advisory vote is ay?


So you can’t get over the fact that the government said it will honour the result of the referendum

They are, I fully acknowledged they are doing a wonderful job of representing the result of the referendum, hence the steaming pile of turd that is the mess we're in. Parliament fully reflects the "country's will".

It's you that still can't grasp you cannot win or lose an ADVISORY referendum. You still cannot see the result in anything other than your narrow blinkered," it's only one number that matters" view rather than it's full context. It's you that cannot grasp the fact that whatever Parliament decides to do (leave, stay or some poxy deal) it will respect the result of said referendum.

Leave did not "win" a damn thing. Remaining wouldn't be a betrayal of anything, leave alone the 17 million you claim it would. Parliament is there to act in the best interests of the country and it's 65million populace. Whatever the outcome ultimately is, Unicorns will remain a fantasy and your flaming bus remains a lie.


The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is still a member of the EU, and long may it continue. #Revoke50 is the only real option left :)
 
BestWestern
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:42 pm

May now wants to have a fourth vote on the same thing, and is now threatening a general election.

That’s really going to help things. A two year delay so the Tories can elect another silver spooned Eton clone, vs a man who hasn’t managed to demonstrate that the opposition are any better than perhaps the worst government in the History of the United Kingdom.

Why should Europe delay everything and not progress on other issues just so Theresa can protect her political party? Oh and Scottish fishermen. M

Strong and stable.

Easiest negotiation in history.

I agree. For an extension the EI should demand the following.

Revoke article 50.
New referendum in January 2020 based on Theresa’s deal or stay.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:49 pm

scbriml wrote:

Thank you for making my point. If Parliament really wants to avoid a no-deal Brexit, the option is there.

Well apparently that's not on the table either,

"Members of Parliament voted by 184 to 293 against a motion brought forward by the Scottish National Party to make revoking Article 50 the “default” position if the Commons fails to ratify a deal."

"May’s government responded formally to reject the petition to revoke Article 50 on Tuesday."


scbriml wrote:
That's your interpretation, others have their interpretations. There isn't just one Brexit. Or are you Lord of The Brexit? You have The One Brexit?


Its not an interpretation, its called a dictionary. look it up if you like


scbriml wrote:
Read what I wrote. I'm talking about the entire population of the UK minus those that voted to leave. 50 million men, women and children. It's pretty simple, they ALL get screwed over by a no-deal Brexit.


I certainly did read what you wrote and your clutching at straw's are you expecting newborn babies to vote to?

Estimated population at time of referendum 65.648m, eligible voters 46.500.001m, that leaves 19.147.999m and out of that 19.147.999m...….12.922.659m eligible voters who did not vote, based on these figures your calculations should have said 6.225.340m who weren't actually eligible to vote, they weren't screwed over they were not eligible to vote
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:53 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
A101 wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
Still can't grasp what an advisory vote is ay?


So you can’t get over the fact that the government said it will honour the result of the referendum

They are, I fully acknowledged they are doing a wonderful job of representing the result of the referendum, hence the steaming pile of turd that is the mess we're in. Parliament fully reflects the "country's will".

It's you that still can't grasp you cannot win or lose an ADVISORY referendum. You still cannot see the result in anything other than your narrow blinkered," it's only one number that matters" view rather than it's full context. It's you that cannot grasp the fact that whatever Parliament decides to do (leave, stay or some poxy deal) it will respect the result of said referendum.

Leave did not "win" a damn thing. Remaining wouldn't be a betrayal of anything, leave alone the 17 million you claim it would. Parliament is there to act in the best interests of the country and it's 65million populace. Whatever the outcome ultimately is, Unicorns will remain a fantasy and your flaming bus remains a lie.


The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is still a member of the EU, and long may it continue. #Revoke50 is the only real option left :)


Image
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:54 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
We can agree that the 52% of those that did vote, is a fair representation of the will of the UK. There is no reason to think otherwise.


Except that if all age brackets would vote the same and the vote turnout would be the same, the result would be remain. That is one reason to think a people's vote would turn out in a remain. The second reason is that people got a lot wiser and see all the lies told by Brexitrimist. Third reason Brexitremist don't want a people's vote because they think the result isn't what they like. Remember that Rees-Mogg said a second referendum was logical with the result of the negotiations.

So I can think of 3 good reasons. So in conclusion, the 52% was a fair representation of the will of the UK at that moment in time with the knowledge of that moment.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:21 am

ChrisKen wrote:

They are, I fully acknowledged they are doing a wonderful job of representing the result of the referendum, hence the steaming pile of turd that is the mess we're in. Parliament fully reflects the "country's will".


That's because the TM WA does not respect the referendum, If we sign that it gives the EU the final say if the UK can leave the EU not the other way around.
Does the term "parliament may not bind its successors" ring a bell.


ChrisKen wrote:
It's you that still can't grasp you cannot win or lose an ADVISORY referendum. You still cannot see the result in anything other than your narrow blinkered," it's only one number that matters" view rather than it's full context. It's you that cannot grasp the fact that whatever Parliament decides to do (leave, stay or some poxy deal) it will respect the result of said referendum.


Really if the UK does not leave how does that equate to respecting the referendum, Oh we believe the people should have a say in the national interest and vote on the matter of remain or leave the EU, but we wont respect the outcome or respect the will of the people that make the UK the nation we are even though we were elected on the premises of giving the people a meaningful vote.


ChrisKen wrote:
Leave did not "win" a damn thing. Remaining wouldn't be a betrayal of anything,


I agree we didn't win anything its not the Olympics, but what it did do was show the government the direction we want to take the country in a manner that was legally asked by it by Parliamentary process, if it was done via a survey of a random number of people I could understand you frustrations
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:50 am

A101 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
No more than you constantly missing the point that there's no such thing as "The Brexit", but a whole range of possible Brexits. None of which were specified on the ballot paper.


The withdrawal agreement is all about achieving an orderly exit during the transition phase, its the future trade agreement is how the UK interacts with the EU

Actually, if the UK wants to have any future agreement with the EU it will always have to agree to the WA or something pretty much exactly like it – your only choice is whether to take the easier route or the really self-damaging route to the same result: You're going to agree to the WA either way (since not having a trading relationship with the EU would be utterly ruinous for the UK).

scbriml wrote:
Just the entire population of the UK that didn't vote for Brexit. They're the ones that get screwed over by a no-deal Brexit. That 50 million.

Everyone tripping over themselves that the backstop is the only thing wrong with the WA, unfortunately its not, do you really think its a good idea that we still have to play 100% to the conditions of being a member of the EU but actually cant have a say on anything within it, no veto rights that the EU may implement changes that may be detrimental to the UK.

You can't first throw all those rights and powers away and then whine that you've been robbed! :talktothehand:

I don't really see how the EU superstate is anyway beneficial to the UK, gee the EU is really looking out for the Irish

The ironclad solidarity of the whole EU with Ireland has you really rattled, hasn't it? ;)
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:32 am

Klaus wrote:

Actually, if the UK wants to have any future agreement with the EU it will always have to agree to the WA or something pretty much exactly like it – your only choice is whether to take the easier route or the really self-damaging route to the same result: You're going to agree to the WA either way (since not having a trading relationship with the EU would be utterly ruinous for the UK).


Ah no, once the no deal exist has taken place the only discussion that needs to take place is the divorce bill, which I have no problem paying it was already agreed too. but all negotiations from there are a clean sheet as we have not had any discussions on the FTA so all the recriminations of being tied to the CU will no longer be there, the UK/EU will reach agreement or they wont and I'm fine with that, I don't fear the WTO.


Klaus wrote:

You can't first throw all those rights and powers away and then whine that you've been robbed! :talktothehand:


its not about whineing of losing the powers, its still being tied indefinitely to the CU under the same conditions(justice,budgetary and taxation) and still come under jurisdictions of the ECJ but no longer having a voice, that's vassalage nation existence


Klaus wrote:

The ironclad solidarity of the whole EU with Ireland has you really rattled, hasn't it? ;)


Ah yes the iron clad solidarity is an illusion, as those other 27 member know their prosperity will decline from the UK leaving, but the EU will continue get to the ultimate of a Euro superstate

Remember the Franco-German blueprint ("A strong Europe in a world of uncertainties,") days after the vote that wanted to do away with individual member states’ armies, criminal law systems and central banks Instead all powers would be transferred to Brussels under the plans, but that's nothing new from the Roman Empire, Napoleon to Hitler and now the continuation under the EU
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:20 am

A101 wrote:
Ah no, once the no deal exist has taken place the only discussion that needs to take place is the divorce bill, which I have no problem paying it was already agreed too. but all negotiations from there are a clean sheet as we have not had any discussions on the FTA so all the recriminations of being tied to the CU will no longer be there, the UK/EU will reach agreement or they wont and I'm fine with that, I don't fear the WTO.


What's the purpose of going through this if the UK agrees to the divorce bill and wants a FTA similar to the options they were given by the EU? Isn't it a waste of time? Then again, you're probably one of the few Brexiteers who actually want to pay the divorce bill and agree to all the consequences of leaving the EU.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:24 am

LJ wrote:

What's the purpose of going through this if the UK agrees to the divorce bill and wants a FTA similar to the options they were given by the EU? Isn't it a waste of time? Then again, you're probably one of the few Brexiteers who actually want to pay the divorce bill and agree to all the consequences of leaving the EU.


The divorce bill is a necessary evil, EU will just take the UK to court anyway, But the Future trade agreement is another story nothings happened on that front yet
 
BestWestern
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:10 am

I see unelected politicians have started the deselection process of Dominic Grieve. 400 odd tories in Beaconsfield are about to deselect perhaps the most intelligent MP in the UK.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:37 am

A101 wrote:
~ but what it did do was show the government the direction we want to take the country
~ because the TM WA does not respect the referendum
~ if the UK does not leave how does that equate to respecting the referendum
~ but we wont respect the outcome or respect the will of the people


Once again, you're repeatedly focusing on just one part of the referendum result, not the whole picture. The referendum is advisory, the result advised that the electorate are split, with no clear preference. Parliament reflects this admirably.
You keep on banging on about the 'will of the people', which people? Your answer is blindly and repeatedly just the "leave" section of the electorate from an advisory vote, conveniently ignoring the rest of the electorate during that vote and the wider population as a whole.

a101 wrote:
I agree we didn't win anything

Perhaps you're finally starting to grasp the nettle. This is about the only thing you've said in this thread which isn't actually, debunked bollocks or spoon fed lies.

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