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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:11 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Makes perfect sense to me. The House of Commons doesn't want a hard Brexit and made it the law. What is wrong with it? Or is it that you don't like it's content?


Except they didn't. The bill passed is specific to the date April 12th and has been so poorly and hastily concocted that it does little more than compel the Prime Minister to make a phonecall to Brussels to ask for an extension, which she said she is going to do anyway. It might as well have been written by children.

The problem is in the process. MPs are setting a dangerous precedent by appropriating power for themselves which is rightly reserved for the Government. By ramming the Bill through the Commons in less than a day, MPs eliminated any prospect of proper scrutiny being applied by MPs and Committees. The Lords are correct not to resist this haste when it comes to matters of Constitutional Import. The passage of a properly scrutinised Bill should take weeks/months, not hours, and the actions of MPs yesterday were highly irresponsible.

While legislation has been passed swiftly in the past in times of emergency, there is no emergency here. Brexit has already been well-legislated for and, per my understanding from conversations with senior civil servants, the Government is well-prepared for a No-Deal scenario. This view is echoed by a poster on this board, who works in the Civil Service, but I am not referring to his affirmations here.


The House of Commons doesn't want a hard Brexit, said it on numerous occasions. So when would you like to have this to pas, two weeks from now, a month? We are slightly more than a week from the cliff edge. Something needs to be done.
And I highly doubt that Brittain is ready for a hard Brexit. In my view, it can't be ready, impossible. Perhaps they are ready to provide the things necessary for the first weeks, but not more than that. Heard a doctor on the radio whom couldn't guarantee that his patients got their cancer treatment after a hard Brexit. This is ridiculous, wouldn't you agree? You have EU citizens living in the UK whom can't be guaranteed that they will still be living there legally in just a few days. This must be just the tip of the iceberg. It is a mess and they say the Government is well prepared? Why, because they have a minister for food distribution(!)? Come on, you cannot be taken seriously if you call that "well prepared". It is comically shameful and British politics and Government are letting its citizens down.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:35 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
scbriml wrote:

No, it still needs to be passed by The House of Lords.


But somehow it's the EU that is run by unelected people?


Quite agree.

An unelected upper house is unacceptable.


Glad we can agree on something!
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:36 am

Commons an uk government now need to agree about something.

Otherwise an extension to may 22 will not help anyone.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:15 am

Dutchy wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Makes perfect sense to me. The House of Commons doesn't want a hard Brexit and made it the law. What is wrong with it? Or is it that you don't like it's content?


Except they didn't. The bill passed is specific to the date April 12th and has been so poorly and hastily concocted that it does little more than compel the Prime Minister to make a phonecall to Brussels to ask for an extension, which she said she is going to do anyway. It might as well have been written by children.

The problem is in the process. MPs are setting a dangerous precedent by appropriating power for themselves which is rightly reserved for the Government. By ramming the Bill through the Commons in less than a day, MPs eliminated any prospect of proper scrutiny being applied by MPs and Committees. The Lords are correct not to resist this haste when it comes to matters of Constitutional Import. The passage of a properly scrutinised Bill should take weeks/months, not hours, and the actions of MPs yesterday were highly irresponsible.

While legislation has been passed swiftly in the past in times of emergency, there is no emergency here. Brexit has already been well-legislated for and, per my understanding from conversations with senior civil servants, the Government is well-prepared for a No-Deal scenario. This view is echoed by a poster on this board, who works in the Civil Service, but I am not referring to his affirmations here.


The House of Commons doesn't want a hard Brexit, said it on numerous occasions. So when would you like to have this to pas, two weeks from now, a month? We are slightly more than a week from the cliff edge. Something needs to be done.
And I highly doubt that Brittain is ready for a hard Brexit. In my view, it can't be ready, impossible. Perhaps they are ready to provide the things necessary for the first weeks, but not more than that. Heard a doctor on the radio whom couldn't guarantee that his patients got their cancer treatment after a hard Brexit. This is ridiculous, wouldn't you agree? You have EU citizens living in the UK whom can't be guaranteed that they will still be living there legally in just a few days. This must be just the tip of the iceberg. It is a mess and they say the Government is well prepared? Why, because they have a minister for food distribution(!)? Come on, you cannot be taken seriously if you call that "well prepared". It is comically shameful and British politics and Government are letting its citizens down.


Do you live in the UK?

Do you work in the Civil Service?

How can you possibly know how prepared the UK is?

Reading subjective sources, does not equate concluded fact.
 
bennett123
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:21 am

As someone living and working in the UK, I have no idea how prepared we are for the outcome, whatever that outcome is.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:30 am

bennett123 wrote:
As someone living and working in the UK, I have no idea how prepared we are for the outcome, whatever that outcome is.


I'm filled with optimism that the politicians and civil servants have got it all under control. :liar:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47821646
Tusk is suggesting a 12-month 'flextension' that can be ended as soon as Parliament can agree on what they want. Seems like an eminently sensible approach.
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:37 am

That would mean the people of the UK would need to vote in EU election.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:47 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
How can you possibly know how prepared the UK is?

Reading subjective sources, does not equate concluded fact.


Concluding something on no facts is a much better approach :lol:

Everything points that crashing out will be a disaster, sure the first impact will be soften with your minister for food distribution and all the stock pilled foot and other necessities. "Nice" for the first few weeks, but no permanent solution, now is it. Nothing points that it will be heaven. But I guess my point of reference is higher than you and I wish the Brittish to have a better life than you. But the last thing we already know, because you crave for a hard Brexit.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:03 am

BBC newsflash on my phone says May has written to EU requesting an extension to 30th June.

I think Tusk's idea is much better and avoids any realistic chance of having to keep asking for extensions.
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sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:29 am

I have just read her lettre: May asks the EU for an extension till June 30th, but also announces she's officially started all the legal preparations for the European elections in the UK.

Note how the lettre from TM also accepts all the pre-conditions said to be put forward by the EU for continued UK membership after the EU elections of May.

A second very humiliating document to sign, for sure!
The British PM is litterally begging and offering whatever she thinks will be enough to get it.... Taking back control, right?
Just put the extension lettres next to the letter she sent over 2 years ago to announce the glorious withdrawal, and you'll immediately notice the huge climb down! I guess we'll not get any state pictures of her signing it in front of a couple of Union Jacks either, won't we? ;)
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:47 am

sabenapilot wrote:
I have just read her lettre: May asks the EU for an extension till June 30th, but also announces she's officially started all the legal preparations for the European elections in the UK.


Although she's asked for a specific date, I like Tusk's idea of a longer flextension. I hope that's what the EU offers.

sabenapilot wrote:
A second very humiliating document to sign, for sure!
The British PM is litterally begging and offering whatever she thinks will be enough to get it.... Taking back control, right?
Just put the extension lettres next to the letter she sent over 2 years ago to announce the glorious withdrawal, and you'll immediately notice the huge climb down! I guess we'll not get any state pictures of her signing it in front of a couple of Union Jacks either, won't we?


That's largely of her own making. But the photo would be better with all those Brextremists and the likes of David "easiest trade deal in history" Davis included in it. :lol:
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:46 am

Jacob Rees-Mogg has tweeted today, in a huff over any extension::

If a long extension leaves us stuck in the EU we should be as difficult as possible. We could veto any increase in the budget, obstruct the putative EU army and block Mr Macron’s integrationist schemes.


admitting in one tweet, that as members of the EU we have power to:

1) Stop an EU Army
2) Control the EU budget
3) Stop further integration

The man is a buffoon... we know he lies of course anyway, but this one tweet today has exposed his decades of lies... in writing!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:52 am

Richard28 wrote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg has tweeted today, in a huff over any extension::

If a long extension leaves us stuck in the EU we should be as difficult as possible. We could veto any increase in the budget, obstruct the putative EU army and block Mr Macron’s integrationist schemes.


admitting in one tweet, that as members of the EU we have power to:

1) Stop an EU Army
2) Control the EU budget
3) Stop further integration

The man is a buffoon... we know he lies of course anyway, but this one tweet today has exposed his decades of lies... in writing!


And he makes it very difficult for EU-27 leaders to sell kindness to the people back home. Why would we help the UK if they threaten us? Of course we would enable Rees-Mogg's wet dream, but still.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:02 am

With this the extension would not be granted as the EU would demand the UK to not exercise its rights during the extension when it comes to the future of the EU. But it seems like even the ERG now sees being kicked out of the EU as the only chance for Brexit.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:06 am

Dutchy wrote:
And he makes it very difficult for EU-27 leaders to sell kindness to the people back home. Why would we help the UK if they threaten us? Of course we would enable Rees-Mogg's wet dream, but still.


He is simply antagonising to try and get EU leaders to block any extension.

But in doing so admits we have the powers that he has always denied we have ever had

He is best ignored.... remember he is only a back bencher

British people are much better informed about the EU since 2016.. having the UK in the EU elections is nothing to be afraid of.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:06 am

seahawk wrote:
With this the extension would not be granted as the EU would demand the UK to not exercise its rights during the extension when it comes to the future of the EU. But it seems like even the ERG now sees being kicked out of the EU as the only chance for Brexit.


for a hard Brexit you mean. The politics seems to point to a Norway plus model.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
bennett123
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:11 am

If I was the EU27, I would wonder if it would be best if the UK left ASAP.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:12 am

Richard28 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
And he makes it very difficult for EU-27 leaders to sell kindness to the people back home. Why would we help the UK if they threaten us? Of course we would enable Rees-Mogg's wet dream, but still.


He is simply antagonising to try and get EU leaders to block any extension.

But in doing so admits we have the powers that he has always denied we have ever had

He is best ignored.... remember he is only a back bencher

British people are much better informed about the EU since 2016.. having the UK in the EU elections is nothing to be afraid of.


I don't want Britts deciding over the future of the EU if they still want out. If they revoke art 50, fine stay, but than they are committed.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:40 am

Richard28 wrote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg has tweeted today, in a huff over any extension::

If a long extension leaves us stuck in the EU we should be as difficult as possible. We could veto any increase in the budget, obstruct the putative EU army and block Mr Macron’s integrationist schemes.


admitting in one tweet, that as members of the EU we have power to:

1) Stop an EU Army
2) Control the EU budget
3) Stop further integration

The man is a buffoon... we know he lies of course anyway, but this one tweet today has exposed his decades of lies... in writing!


Come on, I think that's pretty insulting. To buffoons!

Yes, the ERG has blown it. It overplayed its weak hand and is now reduced to schoolboy taunting. They can all return to backbench irrelevance.

Dutchy wrote:
And he makes it very difficult for EU-27 leaders to sell kindness to the people back home. Why would we help the UK if they threaten us? Of course we would enable Rees-Mogg's wet dream, but still.


Thankfully, the EU27 is more sensible and they know that Rees-Mogg is but a mosquito on the arse of a rhino.

bennett123 wrote:
If I was the EU27, I would wonder if it would be best if the UK left ASAP.


I would have some sympathy for that position, but it seems the EU27 and UK Government cares more about the issues of a no-deal Brexit than any of the Brextremists do. Thankfully.
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:50 am

Dutchy wrote:
seahawk wrote:
With this the extension would not be granted as the EU would demand the UK to not exercise its rights during the extension when it comes to the future of the EU. But it seems like even the ERG now sees being kicked out of the EU as the only chance for Brexit.


for a hard Brexit you mean. The politics seems to point to a Norway plus model.


Well the ERG would not call Norway+ a Brexit and to be honest it is not when you look at the promises made.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:32 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Quite agree.

An unelected upper house is unacceptable.


I'm quite a big supporter of the house of lords. That is, minus the lords who are put there as party poltiical favours.

Many have a vast amount of experience in business, political, science and law. They don't have to worry about being voted out if they vote for something they strongly believe is right.

An elected second chamber in the UK considering just how bad a lot of MPs are right now fills me with concern.


But so many of them are crocked. How many of them have vested interests in staying in the EU.


Ha, of course you would say that.

It's blatent which Conservative MPs have interests in a hard brexit (it's not difficult to find the actual facts but there's rather a lot of ERG members). I think those who want remain, or no hard brexit don't have a vested interest. I think they know full well what the impacts will be on the country and on their constituents. For the house of Lords, from those I have listened to I think exactly the same is true.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:32 am

Richard28 wrote:

He is simply antagonising to try and get EU leaders to block any extension.

But in doing so admits we have the powers that he has always denied we have ever had

He is best ignored.... remember he is only a back bencher

British people are much better informed about the EU since 2016.. having the UK in the EU elections is nothing to be afraid of.



I really don't understand why people think becoming a vassal nation status beholden to the EU is better than a no deal agreement, you guys are ready to hand the EU a blank cheque, by giving up our powers to form minority blocking groups to stop an unfavourable law passing under majority provisions, give away our ability to stop EU influence on parliament sovereign right to pass legislative laws within the UK or even let the EU able to subject the UK to new taxes and also the ability for the EU to attract investment away from the UK and blocking the UK from doing the same, all these agreement favour the EU and none of them the UK unbelievable
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:38 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
[

Do you live in the UK?

Do you work in the Civil Service?

How can you possibly know how prepared the UK is?

Reading subjective sources, does not equate concluded fact.


Are you talking about UK govenment being prepared or UK business + general population?

Because the latter is entirely not prepared. As for infrastructure readiness, not a hope in hell.

Do you work in the Civil Service? What grade?
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:40 am

A101 wrote:
I really don't understand why people think becoming a vassal nation status beholden to the EU is better than a no deal agreement, you guys are ready to hand the EU a blank cheque, by giving up our powers to form minority blocking groups to stop an unfavourable law passing under majority provisions, give away our ability to stop EU influence on parliament sovereign right to pass legislative laws within the UK or even let the EU able to subject the UK to new taxes and also the ability for the EU to attract investment away from the UK and blocking the UK from doing the same, all these agreement favour the EU and none of them the UK unbelievable


I think any deal that leaves the UK half in like Norway is a complete waste of time and won't work for the UK. Having no say, no veto is not acceptable, on that arguement I agree with you. Where I don't agree with you is the solution. Mine is to revoke Art 50, not leave with no deal.
Last edited by Reinhardt on Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:40 am

Richard28 wrote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg has tweeted today, in a huff over any extension::

If a long extension leaves us stuck in the EU we should be as difficult as possible. We could veto any increase in the budget, obstruct the putative EU army and block Mr Macron’s integrationist schemes.


admitting in one tweet, that as members of the EU we have power to:

1) Stop an EU Army
2) Control the EU budget
3) Stop further integration

The man is a buffoon... we know he lies of course anyway, but this one tweet today has exposed his decades of lies... in writing!


You make the same point as Nicola Sturgeon on twitter this morning.
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/stat ... 0285246464

Since it was always claimed how smart this JRM is, I have to urgently read article 50 again, because I missed the line where it said that the country leaving the EU suddenly gets a veto over any of the decisions during it's last 2 years? :sarcastic:

I thought it was exactly to opposite: that as soon as you announced your intension to leave, you've your voting right suspended, but it seems I was wrong: good of JRM for telling us it is the other way round then... :scratchchin:

Anyway: read TM's lettre to the President of the Council...
She's BEGGING to let her country stay and PROMISSIING to be very very kind and quiet in return: 'you'll hardly notice us around, sir' is what she's saying there. :pray:
It's pathetically and uncomfortably humiliating to read it ... well, almost that is... ;)
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:57 am

A101 wrote:
you guys are ready to (...) give away (...) parliament's sovereign right to pass legislative laws within the UK


Strange: I thought the UK's Brexit-government has been doing exactly that for the past few years?!
I remember someone had to go all the way to the highest court in the UK to force the BRITISH Government to give Parliament that right, and ever since and at each vote in this Parliament, that same government has whipped against any motion which hands Parliament a single day of control over its own proceedings, and thus the ability to pass legislative decisions and ultimately even laws in a sovereign way? ;)

A101 wrote:
you guys are ready to (...) give (...) the ability for the EU to attract investment away from the UK and blocking the UK from doing the same


Note how that becomes possible as from the very moment you are no longer a EU member!
In other words: the TYPE of Brexit doesn't matter: ultra-soft, bone-hard, no deal at all, managed or not, whatever....
The moment you're out, the EU is free to compete with the British economy which is then a hostile and competing economy with all possible means at its disposal, including attracting investment away from it, as well as making use of its economic clout to prevent the UK from doing the same, or third parties from working together with the UK.

Slowly starting to realise just what a small fish in the ocean the 'Pisces Britannica' only is, and how big the sharks swiming around you are?
That red one from the PRC as well as the orange one from the USA aren't particularly kind creatures either, so better not be too focussed on the blue one, I'd say.
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:40 pm

Richard28 wrote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg has tweeted today, in a huff over any extension::

If a long extension leaves us stuck in the EU we should be as difficult as possible. We could veto any increase in the budget, obstruct the putative EU army and block Mr Macron’s integrationist schemes.


admitting in one tweet, that as members of the EU we have power to:

1) Stop an EU Army
2) Control the EU budget
3) Stop further integration

The man is a buffoon... we know he lies of course anyway, but this one tweet today has exposed his decades of lies... in writing!

That’s why I want the UK to be kicked out. Remove the cancer.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:05 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
It's blatent which Conservative MPs have interests in a hard brexit (it's not difficult to find the actual facts but there's rather a lot of ERG members).


Yes, those new EU anti tax avoidance laws are going to hurt.
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Dogman
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:58 pm

From @Left_of_London:
The year is 3038. Parliament enacts the weekly ritual of voting down "Theresa May's Deal". No one can remember how this ancient tradition started or what it means.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:20 pm

Dogman wrote:
From @Left_of_London:
The year is 3038. Parliament enacts the weekly ritual of voting down "Theresa May's Deal". No one can remember how this ancient tradition started or what it means.


:rotfl:
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:46 pm

No deal is of course a terrible idea but it seems millions are convinced it just means "life continues as usual". Brainwashing newspapers still working well I see.

Listening to a former high level civil servant (forgot his name) he was saying that the EU expects the UK to come back after a couple weeks out on WTO terms, tail between its legs, to get a deal after all, and the EU is prepared to keep the same hard line, of course. But he was arguing that in fact, despite the likely chaos, the UK wouldn't do that, out of pride. A bit like a captain sinking with its ship (it might help that all high level politicians are millionaires who won't be the ones suffering).

So talks about "mini-deals" are lies not just because the EU is not ready to offer them, but even the UK isn't ready to ask them !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:48 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
A101 wrote:
you guys are ready to (...) give away (...) parliament's sovereign right to pass legislative laws within the UK


Strange: I thought the UK's Brexit-government has been doing exactly that for the past few years?!
I remember someone had to go all the way to the highest court in the UK to force the BRITISH Government to give Parliament that right, and ever since and at each vote in this Parliament, that same government has whipped against any motion which hands Parliament a single day of control over its own proceedings, and thus the ability to pass legislative decisions and ultimately even laws in a sovereign way? ;)


you know exactly what I'm talking about, as I notice you have not put the whole sentence in for context



sabenapilot wrote:
A101 wrote:
you guys are ready to (...) give (...) the ability for the EU to attract investment away from the UK and blocking the UK from doing the same


Note how that becomes possible as from the very moment you are no longer a EU member!
In other words: the TYPE of Brexit doesn't matter: ultra-soft, bone-hard, no deal at all, managed or not, whatever....
The moment you're out, the EU is free to compete with the British economy which is then a hostile and competing economy with all possible means at its disposal, including attracting investment away from it, as well as making use of its economic clout to prevent the UK from doing the same, or third parties from working together with the UK.

Slowly starting to realise just what a small fish in the ocean the 'Pisces Britannica' only is, and how big the sharks swiming around you are?
That red one from the PRC as well as the orange one from the USA aren't particularly kind creatures either, so better not be too focussed on the blue one, I'd say.


Least the government can fight back as it see's fit once it has left, context here is the agreements that place the UK at a disadvantage as it is still beholden to the EU. All this shit fight in parliament is doing and continuing to ask extension after extension and taking all options off the table continues to weaken the UK. Either TM is a mastermind driven to keep the UK in the EU in some shape or form or she's out of here league, may guess its the later because she has totally lost all control.

What ever happens the populace has lost respect of parliamentary process what ever once views are.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:53 pm

Dogman wrote:
From @Left_of_London:
The year is 3038. Parliament enacts the weekly ritual of voting down "Theresa May's Deal". No one can remember how this ancient tradition started or what it means.



That is pretty funny :spit:
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8252
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:11 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
A101 wrote:
Dogman wrote:
From @Left_of_London:
The year is 3038. Parliament enacts the weekly ritual of voting down "Theresa May's Deal". No one can remember how this ancient tradition started or what it means.



That is pretty funny :spit:


Maybe Brexit was the question from the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy.

The answer being 42, because at this stage it makes as much sense as anything else the Tory facists have suggested.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
kaitak
Posts: 9632
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:43 pm

BestWestern wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
A101 wrote:
Dogman wrote:
From @Left_of_London:
The year is 3038. Parliament enacts the weekly ritual of voting down "Theresa May's Deal". No one can remember how this ancient tradition started or what it means.



That is pretty funny :spit:


Maybe Brexit was the question from the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy.

The answer being 42, because at this stage it makes as much sense as anything else the Tory facists have suggested.


Funny I was just listening to that today! You know, if DA were still alive, I think he'd have difficulty coming up with something as comical as what's happening now - and that's including the marketing committee that can't decide on what colour fire should be (or whether it can be worn nasally!)

Joking apart (and only very slightly apart), it looks like talks between May and Corbyn are close to collapse, so it would be interesting to see what the sticking point is (apart from mutual loathing). Might it have been Corbyn's plea/request for a second referendum?
 
Bostrom
Posts: 730
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:06 pm

France still seems to be opposed to another extension. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... eal-brexit

Responding to May’s letter, France’s secretary of state for European affairs, Amélie de Montchalin, told the Guardian in a statement: “The European council took a clear decision on 21 March … Another extension requires the UK to put forward a plan with clear and credible political backing.”

The council would then have to define the necessary conditions attached to that extension, she said. “In the absence of such a plan, we would have to acknowledge that the UK chose to leave the EU in a disorderly manner.”
 
Kilopond
Posts: 428
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:02 pm

Please sort the following upcoming events into the correct chronological order:

- BER opening
- Brexit
- Men on Mars
- Royal funeral
 
Klaus
Posts: 21118
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:36 pm

A101 wrote:
I really don't understand why people think becoming a vassal nation status beholden to the EU is better than a no deal agreement,

You're still deluding yourself about having a real choice there.

The European Union is a giant next door to you, and it sets the agenda and many of the rules which will simply apply to you whether you want it or not because there is no real choice about it unless you're trying to take the North Korea route.

Going for "no deal" will have the exact same effect, it will just hurt the UK a whole lot more than any of the alternatives.

And the only way you could have had actual influence on your own rules and laws was actually being a fully vested member with a full seat at the table and a veto in the European Council and actual, real MEPs instead of the clown posse you had in fact chosen to waste your votes on so far.

Throwing these opportunities simply away automatically means that you'll be dependent on others with very much less to say about it all, and the only beneficiaries of that will be your actual enemies and those waiting to take advantage of a greatly diminished and much weakened Disunited Kingdom teetering on the brink of collapse or already in actual dissolution the way things are.

It is obvious why Vladimir Putin is a Brexit fan. But actual UK citizens? Why?
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6911
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:29 am

Kilopond wrote:
Please sort the following upcoming events into the correct chronological order:

- BER opening
- Brexit
- Men on Mars
- Royal funeral

No need to re-order. You already put them in correct order (assuming of course that Lizzy stays with us for at least a thousand years).
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Klaus
Posts: 21118
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:51 am

prebennorholm wrote:
Kilopond wrote:
Please sort the following upcoming events into the correct chronological order:

- BER opening
- Brexit
- Men on Mars
- Royal funeral

No need to re-order. You already put them in correct order (assuming of course that Lizzy stays with us for at least a thousand years).

As a german I have to make just one correction:

The BER opening one is a trick question. We all know that's never, ever going to happen...! 8-)
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6911
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:19 am

Klaus wrote:
The BER opening one is a trick question. We all know that's never, ever going to happen...! 8-)

OK, I see your point. I was imagining that BER might open in 500 years time (as a local glider airfield of course, when this planet has run out of oil).
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
A101
Posts: 650
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:56 am

Klaus wrote:
You're still deluding yourself about having a real choice there.


Your missing the point, the UK will be able to make there own standards without EU influence; we will have a real choice in deciding law and order taxation health and food standards within the UK, exports will always have to follow the regulations of the receiving nation, the EU doesn't have any influence on third nations sovereign requirements to those standards, Australia is a lot smaller than the EU, but the EU still has to accommodate bio security standards in Australia, nor does Australia/New Zealand hand any control of their sovereign parliaments to the EU

But we all remember the heavy handed tactics played by the French in regards to the Rainbow Warrior incident

Klaus wrote:
The European Union is a giant next door to you, and it sets the agenda and many of the rules which will simply apply to you whether you want it or not because there is no real choice about it unless you're trying to take the North Korea route.


That is plainly wrong the EU will not influence the standards that is a matter for the UK


Klaus wrote:
Going for "no deal" will have the exact same effect, it will just hurt the UK a whole lot more than any of the alternatives.


The EU will not have a direct input into the legislative branch

Klaus wrote:
And the only way you could have had actual influence on your own rules and laws was actually being a fully vested member with a full seat at the table and a veto in the European Council and actual, real MEPs instead of the clown posse you had in fact chosen to waste your votes on so far.


From day 1 the UK can if it so wishes remove any EU impediments to UK law as it sees fit to do so and to which I expect to happen EU influence ceases to exist on domestic law, you know things like food standards road transport medical rules etc etc

Klaus wrote:
Throwing these opportunities simply away automatically means that you'll be dependent on others with very much less to say about it all, and the only beneficiaries of that will be your actual enemies and those waiting to take advantage of a greatly diminished and much weakened Disunited Kingdom teetering on the brink of collapse or already in actual dissolution the way things are.


At this stage I don't see NATO weakening due to the fact that Parliament no longer cedes any sovereign to the EU in relation to domestic matters



Klaus wrote:
It is obvious why Vladimir Putin is a Brexit fan. But actual UK citizens? Why?



Because he doesn't see the need for Russia relinquish it sovereign rights to an outside union.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 8828
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:31 am

A101 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
You're still deluding yourself about having a real choice there.


Your missing the point, the UK will be able to make there own standards without EU influence; we will have a real choice in deciding law and order taxation health and food standards within the UK, exports will always have to follow the regulations of the receiving nation, the EU doesn't have any influence on third nations sovereign requirements to those standards, Australia is a lot smaller than the EU, but the EU still has to accommodate bio security standards in Australia, nor does Australia/New Zealand hand any control of their sovereign parliaments to the EU

But we all remember the heavy handed tactics played by the French in regards to the Rainbow Warrior incident

Klaus wrote:
The European Union is a giant next door to you, and it sets the agenda and many of the rules which will simply apply to you whether you want it or not because there is no real choice about it unless you're trying to take the North Korea route.


That is plainly wrong the EU will not influence the standards that is a matter for the UK


Klaus wrote:
Going for "no deal" will have the exact same effect, it will just hurt the UK a whole lot more than any of the alternatives.


The EU will not have a direct input into the legislative branch

Klaus wrote:
And the only way you could have had actual influence on your own rules and laws was actually being a fully vested member with a full seat at the table and a veto in the European Council and actual, real MEPs instead of the clown posse you had in fact chosen to waste your votes on so far.


From day 1 the UK can if it so wishes remove any EU impediments to UK law as it sees fit to do so and to which I expect to happen EU influence ceases to exist on domestic law, you know things like food standards road transport medical rules etc etc

Klaus wrote:
Throwing these opportunities simply away automatically means that you'll be dependent on others with very much less to say about it all, and the only beneficiaries of that will be your actual enemies and those waiting to take advantage of a greatly diminished and much weakened Disunited Kingdom teetering on the brink of collapse or already in actual dissolution the way things are.


At this stage I don't see NATO weakening due to the fact that Parliament no longer cedes any sovereign to the EU in relation to domestic matters



Klaus wrote:
It is obvious why Vladimir Putin is a Brexit fan. But actual UK citizens? Why?



Because he doesn't see the need for Russia relinquish it sovereign rights to an outside union.


two things:
> we established that your real reason for Brexit is immigration, nothing else.
> Putin likes Brexit because it will weakening the EU and especially the UK. Putin things in win-loose.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
olle
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:05 am

marcelh wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg has tweeted today, in a huff over any extension::

If a long extension leaves us stuck in the EU we should be as difficult as possible. We could veto any increase in the budget, obstruct the putative EU army and block Mr Macron’s integrationist schemes.


admitting in one tweet, that as members of the EU we have power to:

1) Stop an EU Army
2) Control the EU budget
3) Stop further integration

The man is a buffoon... we know he lies of course anyway, but this one tweet today has exposed his decades of lies... in writing!

That’s why I want the UK to be kicked out. Remove the cancer.


So here we come down to the center of the whole Brexit election.

Do UK and the other EU 27 countries have right to give veto to major changes in the EU?

Until now Brexit and ERG has been presenting that UK do not have veto. Brexiteers in general agreed and remoaners did say that UK has a veto.

Now the leading ERG and Brexiteers says that UK have suddenly got Veto for major changes like EU army, major changes of budget, closer union, control immigration etc.

Then can not Brexiteers agree that UK can happily stay in the EU? Brexiteers WON! Brexiteers succeded to change EU over one week!!!!!! This is great news! Express take notice and declare victory!!!!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 8828
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:08 am

olle wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg has tweeted today, in a huff over any extension::



admitting in one tweet, that as members of the EU we have power to:

1) Stop an EU Army
2) Control the EU budget
3) Stop further integration

The man is a buffoon... we know he lies of course anyway, but this one tweet today has exposed his decades of lies... in writing!

That’s why I want the UK to be kicked out. Remove the cancer.


So here we come down to the center of the whole Brexit election.

Do UK and the other EU 27 countries have right to give veto to major changes in the EU?

Until now Brexit and ERG has been presenting that UK do not have veto. Brexiteers in general agreed and remoaners did say that UK has a veto.

Now the leading ERG and Brexiteers says that UK have suddenly got Veto for major changes like EU army, major changes of budget, closer union, control immigration etc.

Then can not Brexiteers agree that UK can happily stay in the EU? Brexiteers WON! Brexiteers succeded to change EU over one week!!!!!! This is great news! Express take notice and declare victory!!!!


haha, facts are so hard to deal with, unless you can frame them in the right way, well done.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
Posts: 650
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:34 am

Dutchy wrote:

two things:
> we established that your real reason for Brexit is immigration, nothing else.


The only thing you established is you think that.


Dutchy wrote:
> Putin likes Brexit because it will weakening the EU and especially the UK. Putin things in win-loose.



Weakening the EU thought you didn’t need us because you only export a small amount to the UK overall, and here I thought you cared about the UK.

So you really want overall control of the UK armed forces as part of a Federal European Defence Force. Why don’t you disband NATO while you at it, gives AUSCANNZUKUS something to think about
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 648
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:12 am

Klaus wrote:
A101 wrote:
I really don't understand why people think becoming a vassal nation status beholden to the EU is better than a no deal agreement,

You're still deluding yourself about having a real choice there.

The European Union is a giant next door to you, and it sets the agenda and many of the rules which will simply apply to you whether you want it or not because there is no real choice about it unless you're trying to take the North Korea route.

Going for "no deal" will have the exact same effect, it will just hurt the UK a whole lot more than any of the alternatives.

And the only way you could have had actual influence on your own rules and laws was actually being a fully vested member with a full seat at the table and a veto in the European Council and actual, real MEPs instead of the clown posse you had in fact chosen to waste your votes on so far.

Throwing these opportunities simply away automatically means that you'll be dependent on others with very much less to say about it all, and the only beneficiaries of that will be your actual enemies and those waiting to take advantage of a greatly diminished and much weakened Disunited Kingdom teetering on the brink of collapse or already in actual dissolution the way things are.

It is obvious why Vladimir Putin is a Brexit fan. But actual UK citizens? Why?


Wow. A German telling us we must stick to ze rules.

It is like going back 80 odd years.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 8306
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:20 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
A101 wrote:
I really don't understand why people think becoming a vassal nation status beholden to the EU is better than a no deal agreement,

You're still deluding yourself about having a real choice there.

The European Union is a giant next door to you, and it sets the agenda and many of the rules which will simply apply to you whether you want it or not because there is no real choice about it unless you're trying to take the North Korea route.

Going for "no deal" will have the exact same effect, it will just hurt the UK a whole lot more than any of the alternatives.

And the only way you could have had actual influence on your own rules and laws was actually being a fully vested member with a full seat at the table and a veto in the European Council and actual, real MEPs instead of the clown posse you had in fact chosen to waste your votes on so far.

Throwing these opportunities simply away automatically means that you'll be dependent on others with very much less to say about it all, and the only beneficiaries of that will be your actual enemies and those waiting to take advantage of a greatly diminished and much weakened Disunited Kingdom teetering on the brink of collapse or already in actual dissolution the way things are.

It is obvious why Vladimir Putin is a Brexit fan. But actual UK citizens? Why?


Wow. A German telling us we must stick to ze rules.

It is like going back 80 odd years.


That is why the UK needs to get out of the EU. The UK has not defeated the Krauts twice in the 20th century just be their lackey in the 21st.
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1031
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:17 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:

Wow. A German telling us we must stick to ze rules.



Hello, another friendly Hun speaking here! Just for the purpose of enlightenment: Does that wow signal offence or admiration? In other words: Do you think 21'st century Germans are particularly bad or good at inventing, understanding and/or enforcing rules? Just curious.
 
olle
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:01 pm

So now after ERG has told us that everything they told uk people was false we are down to Empire II and how did the hun win the peace over UK after WW II??

What a joke!

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