A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:01 am

Dutchy wrote:
Not worried, just looking at a loose - loose situation.


Yep, everyone’s going to in one way or another on both sides.
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:38 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:

Alright; if push comes to shove, then Hard Brexit and no walls inside the UK.


Fine, all you need to do is: a. convince a majority of your Member of Parliament to do this. b. live with all the consequences of such a move:

> Harsh economic times
> Quite possibly the end of the United Kingdom as we know it
> Quite possibly a downturn in civil liberties (will be less protected since many of the liberties are protected by the EU which aren't in British law

And remember it is all self-inflicted, that is the crazy thing about it.


Why are you worried about what the UK decided to do, support for a hard Brexit is growing within the UK.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... ng-number/

Well, it'll be your funeral after shooting your own brains out.

Sad.
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:17 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Not worried, just looking at a loose - loose situation.


Yep, everyone’s going to in one way or another on both sides.

I hope you get your no deal Brexit. I want to see those unicorns and rainbows. Everything else is just “Brexit”
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:25 am

marcelh wrote:
I hope you get your no deal Brexit. I want to see those unicorns and rainbows. Everything else is just “Brexit”


Klaus wrote:
Well, it'll be your funeral after shooting your own brains out.

Sad.



Still playing the same ole broken record hey :wave:
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:31 am

A101 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
I hope you get your no deal Brexit. I want to see those unicorns and rainbows. Everything else is just “Brexit”


Klaus wrote:
Well, it'll be your funeral after shooting your own brains out.

Sad.



Still playing the same ole broken record hey :wave:

Hey, you Brexiteers promised the unicorns. I definately want to see them!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:33 am

A101 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
I hope you get your no deal Brexit. I want to see those unicorns and rainbows. Everything else is just “Brexit”


Klaus wrote:
Well, it'll be your funeral after shooting your own brains out.

Sad.



Still playing the same ole broken record hey :wave:


You cannot see the frustration behind this? People are fat up with the attitude of people with an attitude like yours. You will only learn when there is a hard Brexit and everything will come true what is predicted. It is so sad that these people seem to care more about Brittain than you.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:54 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
I hope you get your no deal Brexit. I want to see those unicorns and rainbows. Everything else is just “Brexit”


Klaus wrote:
Well, it'll be your funeral after shooting your own brains out.

Sad.



Still playing the same ole broken record hey :wave:


You cannot see the frustration behind this? People are fat up with the attitude of people with an attitude like yours. You will only learn when there is a hard Brexit and everything will come true what is predicted. It is so sad that these people seem to care more about Brittain than you.


Maybe people like him are willing to pay the price for the Hard Brexit, because they believe it is worth it? The support for the harr Brexit is growing each day in the UK and it is closing on reaching 50%.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:08 am

seahawk wrote:
Maybe people like him are willing to pay the price for the Hard Brexit, because they believe it is worth it? The support for the harr Brexit is growing each day in the UK and it is closing on reaching 50%.


I doubt it when people see what will happen and how it is affecting their daily life. Sure the EU will be blamed again, but yeah perhaps people will see the truth at last when it can't be denied. It is like with teens, in the end, they will need to face the consequences of their actions. Remember that they wanted this, so the blame is 100% on them, nobody else. And don't worry, if they don't remember, we will remind them.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:16 am

Dutchy wrote:

You cannot see the frustration behind this? People are fat up with the attitude of people with an attitude like yours. You will only learn when there is a hard Brexit and everything will come true what is predicted. It is so sad that these people seem to care more about Brittain than you.


I post on other sites besides this place where at least it’s kept civil, this place is full of acrimonious keyboard warriors who cannot accept that the UK decided to leave.

But it is interesting to see the reaction of some here, just remember whatever happens in the next few days it’s not the end of the world life will go on, hopefully we will just not be part of the EU.

If the EU is a friend of the UK, who needs enemies :wave:
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:34 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

You cannot see the frustration behind this? People are fat up with the attitude of people with an attitude like yours. You will only learn when there is a hard Brexit and everything will come true what is predicted. It is so sad that these people seem to care more about Brittain than you.


I post on other sites besides this place where at least it’s kept civil, this place is full of acrimonious keyboard warriors who cannot accept that the UK decided to leave.:


oh.. that the UK is leaving is not the problem, that the UK doesn´t want to play or accept the rules of international relations is the problem.

Personally i am fairly happy about getting lots of your Jobs and Business.

just remember whatever happens in the next few days it’s not the end of the world life will go on


Aside of the people that will, as per UK Government, die over Brexit. For them it will be the end of the world.

If the EU is a friend of the UK, who needs enemies


hahaha... can you be more removed from reality?

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:35 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

You cannot see the frustration behind this? People are fat up with the attitude of people with an attitude like yours. You will only learn when there is a hard Brexit and everything will come true what is predicted. It is so sad that these people seem to care more about Brittain than you.


I post on other sites besides this place where at least it’s kept civil, this place is full of acrimonious keyboard warriors who cannot accept that the UK decided to leave.

But it is interesting to see the reaction of some here, just remember whatever happens in the next few days it’s not the end of the world life will go on, hopefully we will just not be part of the EU.

If the EU is a friend of the UK, who needs enemies :wave:


You still don't grasp it: UK needs to decide what it wants, then there is a fitting trade agreement. Fine that you want to leave, I think it is a monumentally stupid decision, but ok, it is yours to take. The world is not going to end, no, but there are serious consequences.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:38 am

So, a must-have 'declaration on a unilateral exit mechanism from the WA for the UK'
became a window-dressing 'unilateral declaration from the UK on an exit mechanism from the WA'

So, TM has won the right to formally state how she thinks the text of the WA needs to be interpreted.
It's like sending your own interpretation of an insurance policy's small print to your insurer: he'll take note of it, and still applies his own reading in case of a claim.

All the rest from the 500+ pages of the WA is meanwhile conveniently forgotten: remember how it was read in disbelief when it was first published in November, because it effectively turned the UK into a vassal state of the EU... after which the DUP started crying foal over the -to them at least- all important issue of the NI backstop and the Tories picked up the Union Jack to start waving it, turning the backstop into the single issue debated since then!? All the other humiliating obligations from the WA meanwhile seem to be swallowed ad nauseam and without any further objection, just like goose are being fed figs to enlarge their liver.

Incredible how the obsession for symbolic and completely irrelevant details from the UK secures the EU such a home run in these negotiations which, I remind you, are the basis of the future agreement! Indeed, it has been argued already that the end state will have to look very much like the transition period foreseen in the WA, if not the whole construction including the window dressing of yesterday falls apart again and politicians catapult themselves back to spring 2016...

You can't but conclude TM was in desperate search of an excuse to help get part of her MPs get off the fence, last night... wonder if it will be enough though???
Last edited by sabenapilot on Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:43 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

You cannot see the frustration behind this? People are fat up with the attitude of people with an attitude like yours. You will only learn when there is a hard Brexit and everything will come true what is predicted. It is so sad that these people seem to care more about Brittain than you.


I post on other sites besides this place where at least it’s kept civil, this place is full of acrimonious keyboard warriors who cannot accept that the UK decided to leave.


No mate, it's perfectly ok for the UK to pack up and leave as long as you make up your minds about what kind of relationship you want.

No unicorns or cherry picking. Real solutions.

Trying to negotiate with others while not having your own position already set is dishonest and counterproductive.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:53 am

JJJ wrote:
Trying to negotiate with others while not having your own position already set is dishonest and counterproductive.


on top of defining what Brexit is supposed to mean after having a vote, and then pretending to have a peoples mandate, is about as undemocratic as it gets.

Do you want a Head of State?

[ ] Yes
[ ] No


but we won´t tell you who is running...... gosh, geez, that no dictator ever had that brilliant idea...

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Number6
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:35 am

I’ve found the UK’s fixation on the backstop to be incredibly curious. My understanding of the backstop is that it operates as a failsafe, should trade talks fail during the next two years. The UK’s obsession with the backstop suggests to me that they expect to fail. The inclusion of ‘the EU can trap us’ part feels like they’re already setting up the scapegoat ready for that failure.

Even darker is my thought that the U.K. government has become delusional in some respects. It cannot forsee it’s true position in these talks. Instead it sees itself as a mighty power and cannot understand why it’s crazy suggestions like wanting access to the SM with no fees is not accepted. In the case of the backstop, they can’t seem to grasp that ‘if’ they feel the EU has trapped them by failing to agree terms on an FTA, that the arbitration mechanism will rule in their favour. Basically, the government can’t see that their own wants and desires for the FTA May not be possible. They cannot see the flaws or errors in their own position. Hence the EU has ruined things, Ireland hasn’t played fair. I’m not sure even a no deal or hard Brexit will shake them of the delusions.
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:51 am

Number6 wrote:
I’m not sure even a no deal or hard Brexit will shake them of the delusions.


Using the EU as a scapegoat has worked for decades.

Why change now?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:23 am

Theresa May, and the UK in general, has affirmed for more than two decades now, that they will stand by the GFA. It's not just the UK and ROI that are part of this, the EU, USA, UN, are all part of the deal. Reneging on it would be very, very bad, not just in practice, but also diplomatically.

So to me the choices are :

No Brexit
Brexit In Name Only (UK stays in the single market)
Brexit with the initial offer of keeping NI in the single market (this is not time limited, it's forever).

No deal with no backstop is not a possibility.

About the magical solution allowing to keep a border open and closed at the same time, what I find funny is that even if some technology existed to do it (a technology that would be for sure akin to big brother tracking every movement of everything and everybody), it would surely materialize at the border, with cameras on poles, things like that. Even that light border would probably upset some people, resulting in the destruction of said cameras. So it wouldn't work anyway.

It might work fine at non contentious borders, like between the EU and Switzerland.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:33 pm

Aesma wrote:
About the magical solution allowing to keep a border open and closed at the same time, what I find funny is that even if some technology existed to do it (a technology that would be for sure akin to big brother tracking every movement of everything and everybody), it would surely materialize at the border, with cameras on poles, things like that. Even that light border would probably upset some people, resulting in the destruction of said cameras. So it wouldn't work anyway.

It might work fine at non contentious borders, like between the EU and Switzerland.


Indeed.
The Irish border is so contentious to some who see Ireland as one nation that any sort of technical infrastructure used to electronically create an invisible border would already be unacceptable... and under the WA, the EU can in that case reject the British proposal to install it and legally insist on keeping the backstop in place.

Meanwhile, A-G Cox' legal advice is in, and I must say it's surprisingly unpoliticial. Basically it states that:
1/ the texts as agreed yesterday evening are legally binding, although the unilateral part from the UK is not fully secured yet (the EU could -until it ratifies the WA and all that goes with it- still object or add to it and as it ratifies AFTER the UK, there's noting the UK could do then).
2/ the guarantees REDUCE the risk of being trapped in the backstop forever, but ONLY in the limited and remote case where the EU would act in bad faith.
3/ in all other cases however (a failure to reach an accord while working in good faith), the backstop still stands and the UK can not walk away from it unilaterally.

The above exemple from Aesma is a nice one where the bad faith principle does clearly NOT apply.
If a future technological solution is deemed too intrusive or too offensive by the RoI/ EU, then there's nothing much the UK can do about it, other than go to the arbitration panel... which is still working under the legal supervision of the ECJ and can only make recommendations.

It's hard to see how TM can substantially reduce the number of votes by which she'd lost the first vote on the WA with this kind of 'improvements', tonight... let alone win this vote.

I think the most likely outcome is
- another defeat tonight, followed by
- a vote to wipe a 'no deal off the table' and then
- a demand by Parliament for an extension, to which the EU will add it's conditions.
(CU, new referendum, more money to bridge the extra time, organizing elections for new MEPs... you name it),
and so the Brexit saga continues.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:09 pm

That bad faith concept is pretty funny, the people talking about it are the ones it applies the best to !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:13 pm

An invisible border, what is this?

Nobody is forcing anybody to control people crossing even today, but it is different when it comes to crossing with goods. And there it does not matter if the check is electronically or manually, every movement of goods needs to registered and tariffs applied as necessary. This only becomes pointless in a customs union between the 2 countries sharing the border.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:25 pm

Listening to Cox in the Commons right now, it's clear he too thinks nothing material changed to the WA (little bit of extra fudge added at the ends), but each time he ends his replies with saying they should still vote for it because it is a tiny bit better than before, and anyway the best possible....
This is the Torries very last chance to climb down, is what is being signalled here and it seems prominent Torry Brexiteers have understood, because it's frankly pathetic to see how they now suddenly talk up a deal identical to the one they killed off about 2 months ago!
Some Brexiteers are going to have to eat A LOT of humble pie this evening.
Wonder is sufficient backbenchers will be hungry for it too...
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:41 pm

Aesma wrote:
That bad faith concept is pretty funny, the people talking about it are the ones it applies the best to !


You are absolutely right.

If you can its worth listening to the last 5 minutes of James O'Briens LBC show from today, where he gives his summary on the days events and where we are now - he sums this point up perfectly.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:21 pm

So, with the DUP and (most of) the ERG MPs having announced in the House or on Twitter they will vote against the deal, it's a given the government will be defeated tonight once more... the only question remains: by how much?

And then what?

Probably an extension to create a super clif edge somewhere mid-May (EP elections) and a third vote just before that, in the ultimate hope that even more MPs will be scared into voting for a deal they still don't like because indeed it is miles away from what they were promissed by those advocating an easy and painless Brexit all those years (but equally it's the best deal they could ever realistically hope for).

Or are we going to see snap elections once again?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:17 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
So, with the DUP and (most of) the ERG MPs having announced in the House or on Twitter they will vote against the deal, it's a given the government will be defeated tonight once more... the only question remains: by how much?


I've been watching Parliament all afternoon. It's clear that the Government will lose this evening's vote. The degree of defeat is pretty much irrelevant.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:30 pm

The next few days are critical for the UK but no matter what - hard, delayed or no Brexit, terrible damage has been done to the governments, economies and peoples of the UK, EU, NI, both the Tory and Labour parties, no one will ever significantly recover from despite the unicorn dreams.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:23 pm

391 no and 242 yes to the WA, at least a smaller defeat than last time.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:24 pm

Vote on no-deal tomorrow.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:25 pm

In the meantime, some musical entertainment: Straight outta the Commons... it’s Still M.A.Y. (featuring Snoop Mogg), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xABJ3sWKIxI
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:27 pm

May just used the R word twice!

Revoke A50
Referendum
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:30 pm

scbriml wrote:
Vote on no-deal tomorrow.


Will be interesting how this vote will go. Moreover, what will happen afterwards. I still can't see an extension being approved by the EU27 after the rejection of the enhancements May got last night.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:36 pm

LJ wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Vote on no-deal tomorrow.


Will be interesting how this vote will go. Moreover, what will happen afterwards. I still can't see an extension being approved by the EU27 after the rejection of the enhancements May got last night.


They’ll vote against it, but given no deal is our default position, hopefully it is where we will end up.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:37 pm

EU Council takes note of the rejection, but does not see what else the EU can do: the UK must make its choice and is open to an extension IF the UK can tell for what purpose... otherwise, no extension is going to be granted!
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:13 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
LJ wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Vote on no-deal tomorrow.


Will be interesting how this vote will go. Moreover, what will happen afterwards. I still can't see an extension being approved by the EU27 after the rejection of the enhancements May got last night.


They’ll vote against it, but given no deal is our default position, hopefully it is where we will end up.



if the demand for an extension is rejected by the EU, and given the mandate not to leave without a deal which will likely have been obtained by then...
remember a revocation of the article 50 notification is always possible. ;)

It could be the only way out for the UK in the end, if it doesn't want to go off the clif (which it likely will not want).
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:31 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
LJ wrote:

Will be interesting how this vote will go. Moreover, what will happen afterwards. I still can't see an extension being approved by the EU27 after the rejection of the enhancements May got last night.


They’ll vote against it, but given no deal is our default position, hopefully it is where we will end up.



if the demand for an extension is rejected by the EU, and given the mandate not to leave without a deal which will likely have been obtained by then...
remember a revocation of the article 50 notification is always possible. ;)

It could be the only way out for the UK in the end, if it doesn't want to go off the clif (which it likely will not want).



That wont happen. There is no way we’d revoke A50. It would be political suicide dor the Conservatives and would lead to mass civil disorder.

Mrs May from day 1 has promised that she would fulfill our vote to leave the EU.
 
787Driver
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:05 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

They’ll vote against it, but given no deal is our default position, hopefully it is where we will end up.



if the demand for an extension is rejected by the EU, and given the mandate not to leave without a deal which will likely have been obtained by then...
remember a revocation of the article 50 notification is always possible. ;)

It could be the only way out for the UK in the end, if it doesn't want to go off the clif (which it likely will not want).



That wont happen. There is no way we’d revoke A50. It would be political suicide dor the Conservatives and would lead to mass civil disorder.

Mrs May from day 1 has promised that she would fulfill our vote to leave the EU.


Well maybe the political suicide is better than the national suicide which might happen when Scotland votes to leave the UK and Northern Ireland too?

Time for a new last minute brexit vote.. let's see if the population still wants Brexit. I doubt it.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:12 pm

787Driver wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:


if the demand for an extension is rejected by the EU, and given the mandate not to leave without a deal which will likely have been obtained by then...
remember a revocation of the article 50 notification is always possible. ;)

It could be the only way out for the UK in the end, if it doesn't want to go off the clif (which it likely will not want).



That wont happen. There is no way we’d revoke A50. It would be political suicide dor the Conservatives and would lead to mass civil disorder.

Mrs May from day 1 has promised that she would fulfill our vote to leave the EU.


Well maybe the political suicide is better than the national suicide which might happen when Scotland votes to leave the UK and Northern Ireland too?

Time for a new last minute brexit vote.. let's see if the population still wants Brexit. I doubt it.


Northern Ireland should go it alone. If Scotland want to go, then fair enough.

There will not be another vote. It would take months to organise. I cannot see anything other than the no deal that so many of us desperately want.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:34 pm

The only way I can see the EU agreeing to extend A50 is if it's tied to a second referendum since it is clear that parliament cannot reach a consensus.

To give a clear result there should only be two questions (otherwise you get whinging for whichever side 'lost' that only 35% of people voting voted for this option etc).

For May the most politically acceptable option is no deal or current WA, given that a majority of people would pragmatically vote for the WA as being preferable to no deal.

I don't see that getting through parliament though. I therefore think that there needs to be two votes, although they can be held on the same day: (1) stay or leave, knowing what is known now that wasn't in 2016, and (2) if leave is successful, then WA or no deal. Basically the votes can be cast at the same time but the result of the second is only relevant depending on the result of the first.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:53 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Northern Ireland should go it alone. If Scotland want to go, then fair enough.

There will not be another vote. It would take months to organise. I cannot see anything other than the no deal that so many of us desperately want.


Like I said before, you are a Brexiteer-extemist, no matter the consequences you want what you want.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:55 pm

787Driver wrote:
Well maybe the political suicide is better than the national suicide which might happen when Scotland votes to leave the UK and Northern Ireland too?

Time for a new last minute brexit vote.. let's see if the population still wants Brexit. I doubt it.


No signs that MEP put country before party, all of the cliff, off you go.........
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:03 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
That wont happen. There is no way we’d revoke A50. It would be political suicide dor the Conservatives and would lead to mass civil disorder.

Mrs May from day 1 has promised that she would fulfill our vote to leave the EU.


You seem to be forgetting something - Parliament has sovereignty over Brexit. The Conservatives won't decide, Parliament will.

If Parliament rejects no deal tomorrow (almost guaranteed since nobody with any sense wants it), then no deal isn't happening. There'd be a further vote on Thursday on whether to request an extension to A50. At that point, Parliament must decide on what basis to ask for an extension. Parliament will likely decide between (as suggested by May in Parliament):
1 - renegotiate a new deal (probably unacceptable to EU)
2 - a second referendum
3 - revocation of A50

Plain sailing to a no deal Brexit it ain't. :shakehead:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:20 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Northern Ireland should go it alone. If Scotland want to go, then fair enough.

There will not be another vote. It would take months to organise. I cannot see anything other than the no deal that so many of us desperately want.


Like I said before, you are a Brexiteer-extemist, no matter the consequences you want what you want.



He’s an extremist because he wants to give NI a vote if they want to remain part of the UK and all that it entails or 2 other option, merge with ROI or become a sovereign nation. Let them decide just like the UK did.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:24 pm

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Northern Ireland should go it alone. If Scotland want to go, then fair enough.

There will not be another vote. It would take months to organise. I cannot see anything other than the no deal that so many of us desperately want.


Like I said before, you are a Brexiteer-extemist, no matter the consequences you want what you want.



He’s an extremist because he wants to give NI a vote if they want to remain part of the UK and all that it entails or 2 other option, merge with ROI or become a sovereign nation. Let them decide just like the UK did.


No, he is an extremist because he doesn't care what the consequences are: economics, geopolitics and possible troubles in NI or even the integrity of the UK itself. He doesn't care as long as he gets his hard Brexit non-sense. That makes him an extremist.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:30 pm

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Like I said before, you are a Brexiteer-extemist, no matter the consequences you want what you want.



He’s an extremist because he wants to give NI a vote if they want to remain part of the UK and all that it entails or 2 other option, merge with ROI or become a sovereign nation. Let them decide just like the UK did.


No, he is an extremist because he doesn't care what the consequences are: economics, geopolitics and possible troubles in NI or even the integrity of the UK itself. He doesn't care as long as he gets his hard Brexit non-sense. That makes him an extremist.



By crikey I must be one too then, if we can’t come to an acceptable WA then hard exit it has to be, better to have no deal than a bad deal
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:38 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
No, he is an extremist because he doesn't care what the consequences are: economics, geopolitics and possible troubles in NI or even the integrity of the UK itself. He doesn't care as long as he gets his hard Brexit non-sense. That makes him an extremist.



By crikey I must be one too then, if we can’t come to an acceptable WA then hard exit it has to be, better to have no deal than a bad deal

Destroying your own future and that of the people around you for a delusional obsession is pretty much the definition of fanatical extremism.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:46 am

Klaus wrote:
Destroying your own future and that of the people around you for a delusional obsession is pretty much the definition of fanatical extremism.


The future is not yet written wait and see what TM does, but the drums of no deal are beating louder in the UK
Last edited by A101 on Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:04 am

A101 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Destroying your own future and that of the people around you for a delusional obsession is pretty much the definition of fanatical extremism.


The future is not yet written wait and see what TM does, but the drums of no deal are beating louder in the UK


parts of that future are very much set in stone as soon as a hard Brexit happens, as it removes rights from 65+ million UK citizens.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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seahawk
Posts: 8489
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:52 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
787Driver wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:


That wont happen. There is no way we’d revoke A50. It would be political suicide dor the Conservatives and would lead to mass civil disorder.

Mrs May from day 1 has promised that she would fulfill our vote to leave the EU.


Well maybe the political suicide is better than the national suicide which might happen when Scotland votes to leave the UK and Northern Ireland too?

Time for a new last minute brexit vote.. let's see if the population still wants Brexit. I doubt it.


Northern Ireland should go it alone. If Scotland want to go, then fair enough.

There will not be another vote. It would take months to organise. I cannot see anything other than the no deal that so many of us desperately want.


Today is the day every member of parliament needs remember his duty for Queen and country and must vote for the hard Brexit. Today is the day to take back control. Hard Brexit is the best option for all involved parties.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:33 am

A101 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Destroying your own future and that of the people around you for a delusional obsession is pretty much the definition of fanatical extremism.


The future is not yet written wait and see what TM does, but the drums of no deal are beating louder in the UK


Well if you jump of a cliff, the future isn't written in stone and the most likely outcome is known. The same with Brexit, it will not become better. Nobody, yourself very much included, hasn't given us a scred of evidence or even logical thinking why Brittian would be better of out of the EU, so thinking that the UK will be better off is delusional, nothing more.

Disclaimer: Believing in unihorn doesn't equal logical thinking.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
787Driver
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:44 am

seahawk wrote:
Today is the day every member of parliament needs remember his duty for Queen and country and must vote for the hard Brexit. Today is the day to take back control. Hard Brexit is the best option for all involved parties.


:banghead: populism at its finest.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:55 am

787Driver wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Today is the day every member of parliament needs remember his duty for Queen and country and must vote for the hard Brexit. Today is the day to take back control. Hard Brexit is the best option for all involved parties.


:banghead: populism at its finest.


Strangely you have even German politicians now calling the hard Brexit an acceptable solution, that is preferable to a prolonged time of insecurity. that still could end in a hard Brexit. And that was my position for a long time. If you can not find a good relationship with the UK within 2 years and the UK does not even have an idea what it wants, it is better to end the insecurity than to keep going without any clear solution in sight.
In the end we all know what the British parliament will decide, ask for an extension of the withdrawal period so that a better deal can be negotiated. I hope the EU rejects this, as the British position would remain unchanged.

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