787Driver
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:57 am

seahawk wrote:
787Driver wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Today is the day every member of parliament needs remember his duty for Queen and country and must vote for the hard Brexit. Today is the day to take back control. Hard Brexit is the best option for all involved parties.


:banghead: populism at its finest.


Strangely you have even German politicians now calling the hard Brexit an acceptable solution, that is preferable to a prolonged time of insecurity. that still could end in a hard Brexit. And that was my position for a long time. If you can not find a good relationship with the UK within 2 years and the UK does not even have an idea what it wants, it is better to end the insecurity than to keep going without any clear solution in sight.
In the end we all know what the British parliament will decide, ask for an extension of the withdrawal period so that a better deal can be negotiated. I hope the EU rejects this, as the British position would remain unchanged.


My comment was aimed at people who believe Brexit is a good thing for the UK.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:20 am

Dutchy wrote:

Well if you jump of a cliff, the future isn't written in stone and the most likely outcome is known.


Well I know people who have actually thrown themselves of cliffs and ask others to do the same and survived, it’s called BASE jumping

Dutchy wrote:
The same with Brexit, it will not become better. Nobody, yourself very much included, hasn't given us a scred of evidence or even logical thinking why Brittian would be better of out of the EU, so thinking that the UK will be better off is delusional, nothing more.


Well I’m sure Greece still thinks it found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow because it joined the EU
 
ltbewr
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:30 am

I fear that no matter what happens as to Brexit, the UK will see a shift to a more right wing, anti-EU, anti-Immigrant, nationalistic and authoritarian politics as we have seen in the USA, France, Poland and elsewhere. May and many other political leaders in the UK will be replaced by Trump like idiots who make all kinds of terrible promises to the masses while keeping the rich happy.
More companies will extort governments into tax deals to keep a few jobs in those countries. There will be more movement of jobs away from high-tax and highly regulated countries to lesser ones and rich persons become citizens or legal residents in low-tax locations. The decline in tax revenues will mean austerity and huge cuts in the social welfare benefits as not enough tax revenues.
The EU government and bureaucracy will see a significant decline as members exit or limit the powers and regulations of the EU.
The Brexit may be a major trigger in a major international recession, perhaps like 2008 but even worse as many never recovered from that.
I hope those that voted for Brexit are the first ones to lose their jobs.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:32 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Well if you jump of a cliff, the future isn't written in stone and the most likely outcome is known.


Well I know people who have actually thrown themselves of cliffs and ask others to do the same and survived, it’s called BASE jumping


and how does the Brexit parachute look like? WTO crap perhaps?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:14 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
That wont happen. There is no way we’d revoke A50. It would be political suicide dor the Conservatives and would lead to mass civil disorder.

Mrs May from day 1 has promised that she would fulfill our vote to leave the EU.


Are UK citizens prone to mass civil disorder ? Especially old geezers who voted for Brexit ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:20 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Well if you jump of a cliff, the future isn't written in stone and the most likely outcome is known.


Well I know people who have actually thrown themselves of cliffs and ask others to do the same and survived, it’s called BASE jumping


and how does the Brexit parachute look like? WTO crap perhaps?


Base jumping has a fatality and injury rate 43 times higher than parachuting from a plane.....

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:36 am

A101 wrote:
the drums of no deal are beating louder in the UK


Until 7pm this evening when our sovereign Parliament overwhelmingly rejects the idiocy that would be no deal.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:36 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
787Driver wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:


That wont happen. There is no way we’d revoke A50. It would be political suicide dor the Conservatives and would lead to mass civil disorder.

Mrs May from day 1 has promised that she would fulfill our vote to leave the EU.


Well maybe the political suicide is better than the national suicide which might happen when Scotland votes to leave the UK and Northern Ireland too?

Time for a new last minute brexit vote.. let's see if the population still wants Brexit. I doubt it.


Northern Ireland should go it alone. If Scotland want to go, then fair enough.

There will not be another vote. It would take months to organise. I cannot see anything other than the no deal that so many of us desperately want.


And yet mass disorder and destabilisation of NI from Brexit, against the wishes of it's own citizens is ok? Double standards, perhaps? It reminds me of a discussion i had with an English Brexiteer colleague recently..his argument being that it's an acceptable price to pay for Brexit if NI becomes a warzone, PROVIDED it doesn't cross over to England.

As for going it alone, why would we? The people have been happy with the status quo, did not vote to leave the UK as a consequence of Brexit, and it is frankly offensive and un-democratic to think that one country within the UK can just be sacrificed or given away like that.

Sorry to burst the bubble, or is that a balloon of your Brexit unicorn, but i am quietly confident, nay hoping tonight's deal is rejected and tomorrow's sets in motion the revokation of A50!
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:40 am

Michel Barnier speeking in the European Parliament right now:
"He says the UK has to explain why an extension should be granted. He says the EU can not and will not grant an extension until it gets an answer."

So in other words, simply voting for (a demand for) an extension tomorrow won't do it: the UK Parliament will have to start saying EXPLICITLY what it wants to achieve, possibly through a round of further and quite urgent votes: new referendum, a CU, a Norway plus option.

Barnier is basically saying to the UK: decide (quickly) what you want and let us know if you have done so, and then we'll have a look at it and grand you the extension if we think it stands a chance... otherwise you go over the clif, because like the genteman has been saying all along: the clock is ticking.
Last edited by sabenapilot on Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:40 am

opticalilyushin wrote:
And yet mass disorder and destabilisation of NI from Brexit, against the wishes of it's own citizens is ok? Double standards, perhaps? It reminds me of a discussion i had with an English Brexiteer colleague recently..his argument being that it's an acceptable price to pay for Brexit if NI becomes a warzone, PROVIDED it doesn't cross over to England.


Some people have short memories and noviorbis77 doesn't care.
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There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:42 am

Brexit has always been about English nationalism...
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:44 am

scbriml wrote:
A101 wrote:
the drums of no deal are beating louder in the UK


Until 7pm this evening when our sovereign Parliament overwhelmingly rejects the idiocy that would be no deal.


And that accomplishes what?

The parliament has then decided, it does not want the deal, it does not want the no deal and it does not want to stay in the EU either. So in the end it means either more time to negotiate the handing over of unicorns by the EU or the EU has enough and the automatic Hard Brexit will come. (which I consider likely, because the tone within the EU is changing and the hard Brexit is seen as an unfortunate option, but still better than continued uncertainty)

The whole vote about the "no deal" is pointless, because the only way the UK can avoid it is by accepting a deal, otherwise it is the default outcome. But parliament rejected the deal.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:54 am

tommy1808 wrote:
A101 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Destroying your own future and that of the people around you for a delusional obsession is pretty much the definition of fanatical extremism.


The future is not yet written wait and see what TM does, but the drums of no deal are beating louder in the UK


parts of that future are very much set in stone as soon as a hard Brexit happens, as it removes rights from 65+ million UK citizens.


Exactly. Brexitards don't seem to understand that their idiocy potentially ruins the lives of my family and millions of others!
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:58 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Well if you jump of a cliff, the future isn't written in stone and the most likely outcome is known.


Well I know people who have actually thrown themselves of cliffs and ask others to do the same and survived, it’s called BASE jumping

Dutchy wrote:
The same with Brexit, it will not become better. Nobody, yourself very much included, hasn't given us a scred of evidence or even logical thinking why Brittian would be better of out of the EU, so thinking that the UK will be better off is delusional, nothing more.


Well I’m sure Greece still thinks it found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow because it joined the EU


Oh, you mean the Greece that was all financially rotten underneath the surface and which the EU literally clubbed together to save? I know Greek people who seem to think that the Germans inflicted poverty on them, but really the economic shock was a life-saving cushion in front of the brick wall they were driving towards.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:04 am

ltbewr wrote:
I fear that no matter what happens as to Brexit, the UK will see a shift to a more right wing, anti-EU, anti-Immigrant, nationalistic and authoritarian politics as we have seen in the USA, France, Poland and elsewhere. May and many other political leaders in the UK will be replaced by Trump like idiots who make all kinds of terrible promises to the masses while keeping the rich happy.
More companies will extort governments into tax deals to keep a few jobs in those countries. There will be more movement of jobs away from high-tax and highly regulated countries to lesser ones and rich persons become citizens or legal residents in low-tax locations. The decline in tax revenues will mean austerity and huge cuts in the social welfare benefits as not enough tax revenues.
The EU government and bureaucracy will see a significant decline as members exit or limit the powers and regulations of the EU.
The Brexit may be a major trigger in a major international recession, perhaps like 2008 but even worse as many never recovered from that.
I hope those that voted for Brexit are the first ones to lose their jobs.


The polls suggest the mood is swinging the other way - and I'm hoping 2016 was peak gammon. Hopefully, we can come out of this intact and the state and media can get their act together and start presenting reality instead of populist sound bites and generally promoting and educating good policy.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:10 am

seahawk wrote:
scbriml wrote:
A101 wrote:
the drums of no deal are beating louder in the UK


Until 7pm this evening when our sovereign Parliament overwhelmingly rejects the idiocy that would be no deal.


And that accomplishes what?

The parliament has then decided, it does not want the deal, it does not want the no deal and it does not want to stay in the EU either. So in the end it means either more time to negotiate the handing over of unicorns by the EU or the EU has enough and the automatic Hard Brexit will come. (which I consider likely, because the tone within the EU is changing and the hard Brexit is seen as an unfortunate option, but still better than continued uncertainty)

The whole vote about the "no deal" is pointless, because the only way the UK can avoid it is by accepting a deal, otherwise it is the default outcome. But parliament rejected the deal.


Or a people's vote will come into play or even a revoking article 50 scenario. The problem is that the UK doesn't have a clue what to do, so yes something needs to be decided and for the EU crashing out is better than dragging it on.

You cannot save someone whom doesn't want to be saved.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:23 am

Dutchy wrote:
seahawk wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Until 7pm this evening when our sovereign Parliament overwhelmingly rejects the idiocy that would be no deal.


And that accomplishes what?

The parliament has then decided, it does not want the deal, it does not want the no deal and it does not want to stay in the EU either. So in the end it means either more time to negotiate the handing over of unicorns by the EU or the EU has enough and the automatic Hard Brexit will come. (which I consider likely, because the tone within the EU is changing and the hard Brexit is seen as an unfortunate option, but still better than continued uncertainty)

The whole vote about the "no deal" is pointless, because the only way the UK can avoid it is by accepting a deal, otherwise it is the default outcome. But parliament rejected the deal.


Or a people's vote will come into play or even a revoking article 50 scenario. The problem is that the UK doesn't have a clue what to do, so yes something needs to be decided and for the EU crashing out is better than dragging it on.

You cannot save someone whom doesn't want to be saved.


A second vote - how would this help? Remain in the EU or leave, again with no definition of what leaving means? Remain or Hard Brexit when the parliament has ruled out the Hard Brexit? Remain or a certain type of deal, when the parliament can not agree on a deal? I can not see a scenario in which a second vote would help at the moment, or in which you could even formulate the sense of a second vote and how it would be meaningful.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:28 am

Going by the comments expressed by the leaders of the main groups in the EP during today's debate, it seems they have had it with the UK and unless the British parliament quickly comes up with a credible idea for the future, no extension is going to be granted whatsoever!
Even the leader of the European Conservative and Reformist group in the EP -to which TM's Conservatives belong- is now calling for the UK to either simply stay or go, but stop the show!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:35 am

seahawk wrote:
A second vote - how would this help? Remain in the EU or leave, again with no definition of what leaving means? Remain or Hard Brexit when the parliament has ruled out the Hard Brexit? Remain or a certain type of deal, when the parliament can not agree on a deal? I can not see a scenario in which a second vote would help at the moment, or in which you could even formulate the sense of a second vote and how it would be meaningful.


Whatever the outcome it is all bad and the UK will remain divided regardless. Neither you nor me not anyone else will know at the moment what will happen in 17 days, crazy.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
ltbewr
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:55 am

Does the House of Lords have any say in the Brexit process or are they like the Queen, just rubber stamps for the lower house ?
 
KLDC10
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:11 am

seahawk wrote:
scbriml wrote:
A101 wrote:
the drums of no deal are beating louder in the UK


Until 7pm this evening when our sovereign Parliament overwhelmingly rejects the idiocy that would be no deal.


And that accomplishes what?

The parliament has then decided, it does not want the deal, it does not want the no deal and it does not want to stay in the EU either. So in the end it means either more time to negotiate the handing over of unicorns by the EU or the EU has enough and the automatic Hard Brexit will come. (which I consider likely, because the tone within the EU is changing and the hard Brexit is seen as an unfortunate option, but still better than continued uncertainty)

The whole vote about the "no deal" is pointless, because the only way the UK can avoid it is by accepting a deal, otherwise it is the default outcome. But parliament rejected the deal.


Exactly. Theresa May said as much last night and the motion is worded in such a way as to acknowledge that No Deal remains the default.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
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CPH-R
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:34 am

Looks like there's been a cabinet revolt, and May has backed down and will offer up a free vote on the Malthouse compromise.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:36 am

The so called Malthouse compromise is just a deal between tories and dead on arrival with the EU.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:47 am

Yes, lets vote for a plan the EU called "bonkers".
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:53 am

Dutchy wrote:
Or a people's vote will come into play or even a revoking article 50 scenario.


Those are two specific options that May mentioned in Parliament immediately after yesterday's vote. She pointed out that Parliament would have to have a plan if it voted for an extension of A50 (assuming no deal is rejected). The EU would likely reject a request for an extension "because we need more time to argue about what we want".

Dutchy wrote:
The problem is that the UK doesn't have a clue what to do, so yes something needs to be decided and for the EU crashing out is better than dragging it on.

You cannot save someone whom doesn't want to be saved.


The real problem is not that people don't know what they want, it's that not enough people can agree on a version of what they want to get consensus.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:03 pm

Olddog wrote:
The so called Malthouse compromise is just a deal between tories and dead on arrival with the EU.


The EU has already said it will not even discuss it, because it effectively calls for:
1/ an extension of the article 50 process for no good reason
(the UK not being ready to leave now after almost 3 years of pretending to would is not a good reason in the view of the EU)
2/ it calls for a transition period of 3 years in return for continued contributions to the EU budget just like now, yet
A/ contributions are not to 'buy' a transition period like the compromise suggest, they are based on legally enforceable obligations by the UK stemming from the past AND
B/ a transitional period will only be granted by the EU in case the UK ratifies the WA (including a backstop to the NI problem), which this compromise explicitly does not nor does it contain any alternative solution for the NI problem.

The latest version of the Malthouse compromise is dead on arrival and another tool to waste time on purely fictitious solutions which can only please Tories, not the other parties around the table. It's yet another go at having cake and eating it, really.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:31 pm

scbriml wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Or a people's vote will come into play or even a revoking article 50 scenario.


Those are two specific options that May mentioned in Parliament immediately after yesterday's vote


Ever since November it's been utterly obvious to me that realistically the only way out is to revoke Article 50... if necessary with some kind of plan to properly explore other options *before* laying out a couple of fully developed and agreed alternatives (involving all parties including the EU) *before* putting those to a referendum - and all that with a date set five or ten years hence.

I find it very suspicious that revocation has hardly ever been mentioned by the press or the politicians, despite being an actual, real, legally correct, instant "out" from all this. It's like it's taboo for some reason.

Anyway, I still expect it to be used as a last resort on the 28th if no extension can be agreed.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:54 pm

CPH-R wrote:
Looks like there's been a cabinet revolt, and May has backed down and will offer up a free vote on the Malthouse compromise.

It's a "compromise" between the outer lunatic fringe and the frothing fanatics within the Tory party and it has at most absolutely zero change of approval from the EU.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:00 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
I find it very suspicious that revocation has hardly ever been mentioned by the press or the politicians, despite being an actual, real, legally correct, instant "out" from all this. It's like it's taboo for some reason.


Given the referendum result and that Parliament overwhelmingly ratified that referendum and passed the law that still says we will leave the EU on 29th of this month, I don't find it so surprising.

Despite the fact that the majority of MPs would prefer to remain in the EU, their duty has been to deliver Brexit. Many have been reluctant to be seen as "anti democratic" and have done little to 'rock the boat'. However, as we get to the cliff-edge, the reality comes sharply into focus and the dreaded (for Brexiteers at least) R word has been heard more and more.

On the assumption that no deal is rejected by Parliament this evening, Thursday becomes a very interesting day. Will they vote for an extension to A50 and on what basis?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:27 pm

CPH-R wrote:
Looks like there's been a cabinet revolt, and May has backed down and will offer up a free vote on the Malthouse compromise.


This one ?

'Bonkers': what the EU thinks of the Malthouse compromise
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:54 pm

Image
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
KLDC10
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:00 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
The polls suggest the mood is swinging the other way - and I'm hoping 2016 was peak gammon. Hopefully, we can come out of this intact and the state and media can get their act together and start presenting reality instead of populist sound bites and generally promoting and educating good policy.


Do you mean the polls that show the Tories 10 points ahead? https://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/
Or the one that shows increasing support for No Deal? https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/10/sup ... -deal-poll

The Gammon nonsense is getting old too. Debate properly.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
737/738/739/744/748/752/763/772/789
A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/A346/A359
Q400/E170/E175/E190/CS300
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:08 pm

https://ibb.co/gv9cb4n

From the investgative jounalist who writes for the Observer (broke most of the news about the fraud in the referendum, cambridge analytica etc & Arron Banks). Very very rarely wrong, but villified by Brexiteers and right wingers.

Very concerning if remotely accurate.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:23 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
https://ibb.co/gv9cb4n

From the investgative jounalist who writes for the Observer (broke most of the news about the fraud in the referendum, cambridge analytica etc & Arron Banks). Very very rarely wrong, but villified by Brexiteers and right wingers.

Very concerning if remotely accurate.


A form of treason in reality? speaking to foreign powers to potentially undermine the will of your own government?

However - there is still the Revoke Article 50 Ace card to play.... if all else fails it could happen :bouncy:
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:33 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
The polls suggest the mood is swinging the other way - and I'm hoping 2016 was peak gammon. Hopefully, we can come out of this intact and the state and media can get their act together and start presenting reality instead of populist sound bites and generally promoting and educating good policy.


Do you mean the polls that show the Tories 10 points ahead? https://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/
Or the one that shows increasing support for No Deal? https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/10/sup ... -deal-poll

The Gammon nonsense is getting old too. Debate properly.


Look at the actual Brexit poll on your own Britain Elects site and it shows constant growth for remain to 54% versus 46% leave in February. Likewise today's YouGov poll shows 46% against no deal this evening and 33% for.

Funny enough I never normally use the word gammon, but couldn't think of a more concise way of expressing what I meant than "peak... something".

Thanks for trying to divert away from my point, anyway.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:53 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Look at the actual Brexit poll on your own Britain Elects site and it shows constant growth for remain to 54% versus 46% leave in February. Likewise today's YouGov poll shows 46% against no deal this evening and 33% for.


The full results of the "Brexit Express" poll KLDC10 referred to is here:

https://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content ... dated3.pdf

great news if there were to be a #PeoplesVote
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:11 pm

I start to enjoy Sabine Weyand:

The EU’s deputy Brexit negotiator Sabine Weyand has said MPs’ decision to resurrect plans already rejected by Brussels countless times shows that parliament is “divorced from reality”.

Speaking at a closed-door meeting of EU ambassadors this morning, Weyand made the tart observation about the Malthouse compromise - a variant of plans rejected by Brussels numerous times.

Quoting private remarks by the Dutch prime minister, Mark Rutte, Weyand also said the decision to vote for no-deal was “like the Titanic voting for the iceberg to get out of the way”.


House od Commons seems to be just a madhouse :)
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:26 pm

scbriml wrote:

The real problem is not that people don't know what they want, it's that not enough people can agree on a version of what they want to get consensus.


Agree, and the majority of parliament are remainers, looking for the BRINO
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:33 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:

Ever since November it's been utterly obvious to me that realistically the only way out is to revoke Article 50... if necessary with some kind of plan to properly explore other options *before* laying out a couple of fully developed and agreed alternatives (involving all parties including the EU) *before* putting those to a referendum - and all that with a date set five or ten years hence.

I find it very suspicious that revocation has hardly ever been mentioned by the press or the politicians, despite being an actual, real, legally correct, instant "out" from all this. It's like it's taboo for some reason.

Anyway, I still expect it to be used as a last resort on the 28th if no extension can be agreed.


Yeah I agree, I said something similar sometime ago, but I just cant work out if TM has done it deliberately to create a shambles so its the only solution to a no deal Brexit that parliament doesn't want
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:45 pm

Olddog wrote:
I start to enjoy Sabine Weyand:


I hope you at least paid for dinner first!

(sorry, couldn't resist)
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:47 pm

I think you should have a look at her picture before and start a diet :)
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
wingman
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:05 pm

Olddog wrote:
I think you should have a look at her picture before and start a diet :)


Great hair style, it'd go so perfectly with an SM leather get-up. Probably why BoJo and Farage were so insistent on Leave, just for the chance to get whipped by a leather-clad German dominatrix. Their dream is coming true.
 
Ken777
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:48 pm

CNN just announced that Parliament rejected a no deal Brexit by 4 voted. Non-binding apparently.

As then announcer said "this vote means the No Deal option is off the table, but the problem is that there is no table".

As a Yank I'm obviously ignorant of the mess the politicians are wading through. My biggest concern is that the UK & EU stay as close as possible. Maintaining NATO as strong as possible is the first concern, and with the Putin Lap Dog in out White House the stability of NATO should be a primary concern for the leadership in both the UK and EU. Following would be maintaining the stability of Financial, Aviation and Health industries. Trump has demonstrated the potential for instability and that is my greatest fear.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:12 pm

And more voted for the Hard Brexit than for May´s deal. The EU will take note of that.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:23 pm

seahawk wrote:
And more voted for the Hard Brexit than for May´s deal. The EU will take note of that.


We got nothing unexpected tonight.

Although I thought the vote of the house against a no deal Brexit would be a lot higher.

Ultimately my confidence of leaving without a deal is up. The EU have no reason to grant an extension, there will be no referendum and both major parties promised on their manifestos that they would deliver on Brexit.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:00 pm

Yup, looks like the coup was successful....

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:14 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
And more voted for the Hard Brexit than for May´s deal. The EU will take note of that.


We got nothing unexpected tonight.

Although I thought the vote of the house against a no deal Brexit would be a lot higher.

Ultimately my confidence of leaving without a deal is up. The EU have no reason to grant an extension, there will be no referendum and both major parties promised on their manifestos that they would deliver on Brexit.

Your commitment to commit suicide without being rewarded with 99 virgins is truly patriottic. Also Not very smart, but there are more stupid people in this planet than smart ones...
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:30 pm

Crazy, so deal rejected which the EU says it will not renegotiate, no-deal Brexit rejected, what is left? Revoking article 50 and a people's vote.

Up to the next debate and vote: extension and more specifically what will be the reason for asking one to the EU.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:32 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
And more voted for the Hard Brexit than for May´s deal. The EU will take note of that.


We got nothing unexpected tonight.

Although I thought the vote of the house against a no deal Brexit would be a lot higher.

Ultimately my confidence of leaving without a deal is up. The EU have no reason to grant an extension, there will be no referendum and both major parties promised on their manifestos that they would deliver on Brexit.


Actually, I think a Brino has become a real possibility, it is a Brexit thus in line with the manifestos and the referendum, just not the extreme one you like.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:01 pm

Dutchy wrote:

Actually, I think a Brino has become a real possibility, it is a Brexit thus in line with the manifestos and the referendum, just not the extreme one you like.



That would mean a last minute alternate deal, I can’t see that happening at this late stage.

The only thing I can see moving forward is either revoke Article 50 or hard exist, which one they choose is going to be the £64000 question

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