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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:39 am

A101 wrote:
Well hopefully in 18.5 hours we can start moving forward and be done with the EU :checkeredflag:


Brexit mentality in a nutshell. Bad news, I'm afraid, even after Brexit we will still be dealing with the EU on a daily basis.

A "man in the street" was interviewed on the BBC news last night. He said he voted leave and was horrified that Brexit was delayed. When asked why he voted leave, he said because of austerity measures, problems with policing, underfunding of the NHS, etc. I was very disappointed that the interviewer didn't ask him why he thought any of those things had anything to do with the EU. :banghead:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 707
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:42 am

jcancel wrote:
And this is why a mandatory reconsideration campaign and banning Brexit thought will be necessary. If people don't like authoritarianism on this page, if you don't like Brexit supporters losing control over their own politics and losing MP seats, you need to make the right decisions.

At some point Brexit supporters (media companies, MPs, big businessmen) will need to be read the riot act: Brexit is bad. Admit it, accept responsibility, give up your political power, and make compensation.

ltbewr wrote:
No matter what happens from no-deal Brexit to revoking Article 50, the UK will never be the same. The battles have badly destroyed what little trust the voters had in the Parliament and the UK's relations with the EC may go back to the 50's. It has deeply divided the country and families. It could mean the UK will be a rump state of what is England. All because of a selfish ideal of a minority to withdraw from the EC. I am glad I have visited the UK a number of times, most recently in fall of 2017 (England and Wales) before it all goes to hell.


The UK will never done with the EU as the EU is the trading bloc next door that Britain must deal with. Just like the US will never be done with Canada and Mexico.

However countries that lose their financial power lose democracy. Brexit thought may be banned outright (so the population must accept post Brexit normalization of attitudes to the EU) through an act of a new, post-Brexit, anti-Brexit Parliament, so every person living in the UK may be done with promoting Brexit.

A101 wrote:
Well hopefully in 18.5 hours we can start moving forward and be done with the EU :checkeredflag:


So you would ban Brexit support in the UK?

Would you have people sent to re-education camps if they display anti EU sentiment?
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 9489
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:15 am

A101 wrote:
Well hopefully in 18.5 hours we can start moving forward and be done with the EU :checkeredflag:


Hopefully, you will be packing your bags soon to move closer to your kids because the UK is remaining or will have a Norwegian style deal. It is kind of ironic, isn't it. You as a pensioner wants to move to another country to live there, for your own reasons, but at the same time the main argument for the thing you are so passionate about on here that you even said you wanted to move out of your country for if it didn't go thru, is freedom to move to another country for your reasons.
But hey, why would you let irony get in the way of a good argument...........
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:17 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
So you would ban Brexit support in the UK?

Would you have people sent to re-education camps if they display anti EU sentiment?


I think Brexitremist should be held accountable for all their lies and deceptions. You have been told the lies and the problem is you believed them.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
jcancel
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:35 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:27 am

1. At this rate, yes. Germany bans Naziism for a reason as that ideology ruined them. Brexit is having the same internal effect (Naziism hurt other countries severely, while Brexit won't hurt them as much). Brexit extremists were unable to take the slow and cautious approach advocated in the 2016 campaign and insisted on pushing it on a 52 to 48 referendum. Own one's consequences. They did this.

2. I would prefer simply banning Brexit MPs and business leaders from politics and business. When the Brexit propaganda goes away, ordinary citizens will follow in lockstep.

But if Brexit goes *really bad* in the future that could be in the cards for the leaders of the Brexit movement. Nazi leaders got their Nuremberg trial and had worse fates.

noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
And this is why a mandatory reconsideration campaign and banning Brexit thought will be necessary. If people don't like authoritarianism on this page, if you don't like Brexit supporters losing control over their own politics and losing MP seats, you need to make the right decisions.

At some point Brexit supporters (media companies, MPs, big businessmen) will need to be read the riot act: Brexit is bad. Admit it, accept responsibility, give up your political power, and make compensation.

ltbewr wrote:
No matter what happens from no-deal Brexit to revoking Article 50, the UK will never be the same. The battles have badly destroyed what little trust the voters had in the Parliament and the UK's relations with the EC may go back to the 50's. It has deeply divided the country and families. It could mean the UK will be a rump state of what is England. All because of a selfish ideal of a minority to withdraw from the EC. I am glad I have visited the UK a number of times, most recently in fall of 2017 (England and Wales) before it all goes to hell.


The UK will never done with the EU as the EU is the trading bloc next door that Britain must deal with. Just like the US will never be done with Canada and Mexico.

However countries that lose their financial power lose democracy. Brexit thought may be banned outright (so the population must accept post Brexit normalization of attitudes to the EU) through an act of a new, post-Brexit, anti-Brexit Parliament, so every person living in the UK may be done with promoting Brexit.

A101 wrote:
Well hopefully in 18.5 hours we can start moving forward and be done with the EU :checkeredflag:


So you would ban Brexit support in the UK?

Would you have people sent to re-education camps if they display anti EU sentiment?
 
A101
Posts: 998
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:42 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Well hopefully in 18.5 hours we can start moving forward and be done with the EU :checkeredflag:


Hopefully, you will be packing your bags soon to move closer to your kids because the UK is remaining or will have a Norwegian style deal. It is kind of ironic, isn't it. You as a pensioner wants to move to another country to live there, for your own reasons, but at the same time the main argument for the thing you are so passionate about on here that you even said you wanted to move out of your country for if it didn't go thru, is freedom to move to another country for your reasons.
But hey, why would you let irony get in the way of a good argument...........



Who said I was a pensioner, I've got a good few years before that. :roll:

Well it would be a bit hypocritical of myself wanting to stay in the EUSSR in the event of the UK not leaving the block, I'm one of the lucky ones who can afford the move so in the event that becomes reality ill wave the :white: and leave Jcancel to run the re-indoctrination camps
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:05 am

A101 wrote:
EUSSR



you do make yourself look very silly.
 
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seahawk
Posts: 8492
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:08 am

scbriml wrote:
A101 wrote:
Well hopefully in 18.5 hours we can start moving forward and be done with the EU :checkeredflag:


Brexit mentality in a nutshell. Bad news, I'm afraid, even after Brexit we will still be dealing with the EU on a daily basis.

A "man in the street" was interviewed on the BBC news last night. He said he voted leave and was horrified that Brexit was delayed. When asked why he voted leave, he said because of austerity measures, problems with policing, underfunding of the NHS, etc. I was very disappointed that the interviewer didn't ask him why he thought any of those things had anything to do with the EU. :banghead:


That is easy to answer, because the UK has to sent billions taken from hard working honest British workers to fund Greek banks and lazy Spanish farmers. This has to end! British money for British people!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:08 am

Yet more delusion, even at this stage:

Dominic Raab, yes him, yesterday said it still wasn't too late for May to get the EU to make changes to the Political Declaration.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardell ... deal-delay
Asked about Raab’s remarks, an EU official said: “Oh for fuck sake.”


:rotfl:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:20 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Well hopefully in 18.5 hours we can start moving forward and be done with the EU :checkeredflag:


Hopefully, you will be packing your bags soon to move closer to your kids because the UK is remaining or will have a Norwegian style deal. It is kind of ironic, isn't it. You as a pensioner wants to move to another country to live there, for your own reasons, but at the same time the main argument for the thing you are so passionate about on here that you even said you wanted to move out of your country for if it didn't go thru, is freedom to move to another country for your reasons.
But hey, why would you let irony get in the way of a good argument...........


Who said I was a pensioner, I've got a good few years before that. :roll:


Which makes it even more ironic then, you do realise that, don't you?

I doubt many receiving countries bother about pensioners coming over... it's not like they put any stress on the local labour market, do they?
Active people (like you) however... :scratchchin:

But as Dutchy already said: don't let irony get in the way of your arguments.

Anyway: has the UK already decided who's going to pay for the social security of the milliions and millions of Brits living in the (south of the) EU, once the UK is out?
Because I hear the Spanish want to rent a red bus to tour their country with, telling their government to fund their own people's social security instead of that of non-contributing Brits...
I think there's a bus available in the UK somewhere, isnt there? ;)
 
jcancel
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:42 am

An analogy: When anti vaxxers who refuse to vaccinate their kids cause pain and suffering for other people, and they refuse to follow logic or reason, they must be suppressed. They must have their freedom to do what they want and the freedom to hold their beliefs taken away. They are actively harming their fellow human beings.

In fact, consider this thread a re indoctrination camp. Itll be more so depending upon the outcome of Brexit. This is hurting real people and it will become necessary to "reindoctrinate" to move on.

A101 wrote:
Well it would be a bit hypocritical of myself wanting to stay in the EUSSR in the event of the UK not leaving the block, I'm one of the lucky ones who can afford the move so in the event that becomes reality ill wave the :white: and leave Jcancel to run the re-indoctrination camps
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 707
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:49 am

jcancel wrote:
1. At this rate, yes. Germany bans Naziism for a reason as that ideology ruined them. Brexit is having the same internal effect (Naziism hurt other countries severely, while Brexit won't hurt them as much). Brexit extremists were unable to take the slow and cautious approach advocated in the 2016 campaign and insisted on pushing it on a 52 to 48 referendum. Own one's consequences. They did this.

2. I would prefer simply banning Brexit MPs and business leaders from politics and business. When the Brexit propaganda goes away, ordinary citizens will follow in lockstep.

But if Brexit goes *really bad* in the future that could be in the cards for the leaders of the Brexit movement. Nazi leaders got their Nuremberg trial and had worse fates.

noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
And this is why a mandatory reconsideration campaign and banning Brexit thought will be necessary. If people don't like authoritarianism on this page, if you don't like Brexit supporters losing control over their own politics and losing MP seats, you need to make the right decisions.

At some point Brexit supporters (media companies, MPs, big businessmen) will need to be read the riot act: Brexit is bad. Admit it, accept responsibility, give up your political power, and make compensation.



The UK will never done with the EU as the EU is the trading bloc next door that Britain must deal with. Just like the US will never be done with Canada and Mexico.

However countries that lose their financial power lose democracy. Brexit thought may be banned outright (so the population must accept post Brexit normalization of attitudes to the EU) through an act of a new, post-Brexit, anti-Brexit Parliament, so every person living in the UK may be done with promoting Brexit.



So you would ban Brexit support in the UK?

Would you have people sent to re-education camps if they display anti EU sentiment?


Nazism had the ideologies of wiping out millions of people. People that did not belong.

It is insulting to the memory of the tens of millions that were slaughtered as they did not fit in to the Nazi ideology to compare them to the people in the UK that do not want to form a united political union. No anti EU MP has advocated any physical harm or murder of others.

I am astonished that anyone would compare Nazi Germany to UKIP. It is ridiculous and insulting.
 
jcancel
Posts: 133
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:04 am

Naziism had the ideology that Germany was the greatest country on the planet, that critics of their beliefs had no merit and should be pushed aside, and that breaking international agreements for the sake of Germany was for the best.

Extreme Brexit has the ideology that England is the greatest country on the planet, that critics of their beliefs have no merit and should be pushed aside, and that breaking international agreements for the sake of England is for the best.

I am astonished that such an argument with no substance would be used to discredit the real commonalities between the extremist ideologies.

noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
1. At this rate, yes. Germany bans Naziism for a reason as that ideology ruined them. Brexit is having the same internal effect (Naziism hurt other countries severely, while Brexit won't hurt them as much). Brexit extremists were unable to take the slow and cautious approach advocated in the 2016 campaign and insisted on pushing it on a 52 to 48 referendum. Own one's consequences. They did this.

2. I would prefer simply banning Brexit MPs and business leaders from politics and business. When the Brexit propaganda goes away, ordinary citizens will follow in lockstep.

But if Brexit goes *really bad* in the future that could be in the cards for the leaders of the Brexit movement. Nazi leaders got their Nuremberg trial and had worse fates.

noviorbis77 wrote:

So you would ban Brexit support in the UK?

Would you have people sent to re-education camps if they display anti EU sentiment?


Nazism had the ideologies of wiping out millions of people. People that did not belong.

It is insulting to the memory of the tens of millions that were slaughtered as they did not fit in to the Nazi ideology to compare them to the people in the UK that do not want to form a united political union. No anti EU MP has advocated any physical harm or murder of others.

I am astonished that anyone would compare Nazi Germany to UKIP. It is ridiculous and insulting.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:06 am

sabenapilot wrote:

Which makes it even more ironic then, you do realise that, don't you?


Sorry I don't see how when my father is British and my mother Australian

sabenapilot wrote:

I doubt many receiving countries bother about pensioners coming over... it's not like they put any stress on the local labour market, do they?
Active people (like you) however... :scratchchin:



I don't think I will have a problem as long as I don't arrive by boat from Indonesia or run for Australian Parliament


sabenapilot wrote:
Anyway: has the UK already decided who's going to pay for the social security of the milliions and millions of Brits living in the (south of the) EU, once the UK is out?
Because I hear the Spanish want to rent a red bus to tour their country with, telling their government to fund their own people's social security instead of that of non-contributing Brits...
I think there's a bus available in the UK somewhere, isnt there? ;)



You do realise depending on the circumstance the UK still has to pay the age pensioner of UK citizens if they retire overseas, my father received them when my parents retired and lived in Queensland.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:20 am

jcancel wrote:
Naziism had the ideology that Germany was the greatest country on the planet, that critics of their beliefs had no merit and should be pushed aside, and that breaking international agreements for the sake of Germany was for the best.

Extreme Brexit has the ideology that England is the greatest country on the planet, that critics of their beliefs have no merit and should be pushed aside, and that breaking international agreements for the sake of England is for the best.

I am astonished that such an argument with no substance would be used to discredit the real commonalities between the extremist ideologies.


So is the UK planning to take over sovereign territory unlike a certain European union , did it dictated to Scotland that it has to remain in the UK by force underarms and not by referendum, but by golly if you look at the defence budget we are building up to do Normandy 2.0
Last edited by A101 on Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 707
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:25 am

jcancel wrote:
Naziism had the ideology that Germany was the greatest country on the planet, that critics of their beliefs had no merit and should be pushed aside, and that breaking international agreements for the sake of Germany was for the best.

Extreme Brexit has the ideology that England is the greatest country on the planet, that critics of their beliefs have no merit and should be pushed aside, and that breaking international agreements for the sake of England is for the best.

I am astonished that such an argument with no substance would be used to discredit the real commonalities between the extremist ideologies.

noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
1. At this rate, yes. Germany bans Naziism for a reason as that ideology ruined them. Brexit is having the same internal effect (Naziism hurt other countries severely, while Brexit won't hurt them as much). Brexit extremists were unable to take the slow and cautious approach advocated in the 2016 campaign and insisted on pushing it on a 52 to 48 referendum. Own one's consequences. They did this.

2. I would prefer simply banning Brexit MPs and business leaders from politics and business. When the Brexit propaganda goes away, ordinary citizens will follow in lockstep.

But if Brexit goes *really bad* in the future that could be in the cards for the leaders of the Brexit movement. Nazi leaders got their Nuremberg trial and had worse fates.



Nazism had the ideologies of wiping out millions of people. People that did not belong.

It is insulting to the memory of the tens of millions that were slaughtered as they did not fit in to the Nazi ideology to compare them to the people in the UK that do not want to form a united political union. No anti EU MP has advocated any physical harm or murder of others.

I am astonished that anyone would compare Nazi Germany to UKIP. It is ridiculous and insulting.


Provide me with one bit of evidence from anyone who supports Brexit whereby they state the British nationality is greater than any other. Or that Britain is better than all countries. Please provide evidence of this.

If you think comparing people in the UK who feel that they should govern themselves and retain money rather than contribute billions into a central EU pot each year, to those in 1930s Germany who felt Aryan nationals were genetically superior to others, then you are truly deluded.
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:49 am

A101 wrote:

sabenapilot wrote:
Anyway: has the UK already decided who's going to pay for the social security of the milliions and millions of Brits living in the (south of the) EU, once the UK is out?
Because I hear the Spanish want to rent a red bus to tour their country with, telling their government to fund their own people's social security instead of that of non-contributing Brits...
I think there's a bus available in the UK somewhere, isnt there? ;)



You do realise depending on the circumstance the UK still has to pay the age pensioner of UK citizens if they retire overseas, my father received them when my parents retired and lived in Queensland.


And you do realize he said "social security", not pension. The pensioner retired in Spain are by definition old, it's a kind of population needing more healthcare. Up to now they can visit the Spanish system thanks to their S1 form, meaning their right to healthcare are covered by their home country system thanks to EU membership and freedom of movement. I think that's the kind of funding sabenapilot is questioning.

Btw, Spain (Andalucía mainly) is already a bit pissed because even though the care are/were covered moneywise, the needed infrastructure and personal is higher than what it's planned for its population and nothing covers the investment necessary to offer the added volume of care generated by the retired expats. Don't expect much openness from Spain / Junta de Andalucía to cover the UK retired after Brexit without UK founding.
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
jcancel
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:05 pm

The willingness to break the GFA is the evidence. The extreme brexiteers are totally okay with starting the Troubles and hurting Ireland (and it's clear putting up a border breaks the GFA, don't try to argue it doesn't)

The Brexiteers made it clear they value English people over Irish (and also Scottish people too). So far nobody's said that English people are genetically superior to the Irish, but knowing that was the case in the past, when the famines happened...

noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
Naziism had the ideology that Germany was the greatest country on the planet, that critics of their beliefs had no merit and should be pushed aside, and that breaking international agreements for the sake of Germany was for the best.

Extreme Brexit has the ideology that England is the greatest country on the planet, that critics of their beliefs have no merit and should be pushed aside, and that breaking international agreements for the sake of England is for the best.

I am astonished that such an argument with no substance would be used to discredit the real commonalities between the extremist ideologies.

noviorbis77 wrote:

Nazism had the ideologies of wiping out millions of people. People that did not belong.

It is insulting to the memory of the tens of millions that were slaughtered as they did not fit in to the Nazi ideology to compare them to the people in the UK that do not want to form a united political union. No anti EU MP has advocated any physical harm or murder of others.

I am astonished that anyone would compare Nazi Germany to UKIP. It is ridiculous and insulting.


Provide me with one bit of evidence from anyone who supports Brexit whereby they state the British nationality is greater than any other. Or that Britain is better than all countries. Please provide evidence of this.

If you think comparing people in the UK who feel that they should govern themselves and retain money rather than contribute billions into a central EU pot each year, to those in 1930s Germany who felt Aryan nationals were genetically superior to others, then you are truly deluded.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 707
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:18 pm

jcancel wrote:
The willingness to break the GFA is the evidence. The extreme brexiteers are totally okay with starting the Troubles and hurting Ireland (and it's clear putting up a border breaks the GFA, don't try to argue it doesn't)

The Brexiteers made it clear they value English people over Irish (and also Scottish people too). So far nobody's said that English people are genetically superior to the Irish, but knowing that was the case in the past, when the famines happened...

noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
Naziism had the ideology that Germany was the greatest country on the planet, that critics of their beliefs had no merit and should be pushed aside, and that breaking international agreements for the sake of Germany was for the best.

Extreme Brexit has the ideology that England is the greatest country on the planet, that critics of their beliefs have no merit and should be pushed aside, and that breaking international agreements for the sake of England is for the best.

I am astonished that such an argument with no substance would be used to discredit the real commonalities between the extremist ideologies.



Provide me with one bit of evidence from anyone who supports Brexit whereby they state the British nationality is greater than any other. Or that Britain is better than all countries. Please provide evidence of this.

If you think comparing people in the UK who feel that they should govern themselves and retain money rather than contribute billions into a central EU pot each year, to those in 1930s Germany who felt Aryan nationals were genetically superior to others, then you are truly deluded.


So you are now back tracking completely from linking people supporting Brexit to former genocidal Germans and comparing the UK now to the UK from a couple of hundreds years ago, by linking in the Potato famine.

Plus you assume automatically that Brexit will cause Sectarian violence in Northern Ireland.

Do you not think maybe people supporting Brexit have looked at the UK at a whole when looking at how the UK voted? England and Wales voted leave, whilst NI and Scotland did not. It was a UK vote after all.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:55 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
It was a UK vote after all.


It was, and as such it should have required that all parts of the UK be in agreement before seeking to leave. But that's water under the bridge.

Are you still having your Brexit party tonight, or have you cancelled it?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3008
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:23 pm

scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
It was a UK vote after all.


It was, and as such it should have required that all parts of the UK be in agreement before seeking to leave. But that's water under the bridge.

Are you still having your Brexit party tonight, or have you cancelled it?


Looking at the debate in the House right now: there are several switchers, but it doesn't seem to be enough to see TM get the WA through...

That means either 'no deal' in a forthnight, or a very long extension are the only alternatives left (next to revokation, which is so humiliating for the UK that can kicking will be preferred): the first is the legal default, but the House is massively against it and has shown it doesn't hesitate to take control from the Government to change the time line of Brexit ...

IMHO, parties better start looking for candidates to stand in the European elections: it looks like we're going to have to cope with that clown of a N. Farage another few years!
In the once monthly plenary session that it; you never ever see him in any of the daily working groups or the weekly committee meetings of course. ;)
 
jcancel
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:30 pm

I never said I was backtracking: the Nazis are known for taking prejudices and going extreme with them (which is why they got clobbered), but the English (and Protestant Americans) were more than happy to depict Irish as being apelike. This attitude leaked into the Troubles a century later. ( I cant say for certain whether the famine was a deliberate genocide but the mere perception of it could add fuel to the Troubles. )

I dont want this era to come back to the UK. People who want Brexit but are reasonable about it could perhaps say "why don't we put this on hold?" See Nazi extermination didnt begin right away either. It began with something small and it snowballed. Brexit will never cause damage like Naziism but it can still get very ugly.

noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
The willingness to break the GFA is the evidence. The extreme brexiteers are totally okay with starting the Troubles and hurting Ireland (and it's clear putting up a border breaks the GFA, don't try to argue it doesn't)

The Brexiteers made it clear they value English people over Irish (and also Scottish people too). So far nobody's said that English people are genetically superior to the Irish, but knowing that was the case in the past, when the famines happened...

noviorbis77 wrote:

Provide me with one bit of evidence from anyone who supports Brexit whereby they state the British nationality is greater than any other. Or that Britain is better than all countries. Please provide evidence of this.

If you think comparing people in the UK who feel that they should govern themselves and retain money rather than contribute billions into a central EU pot each year, to those in 1930s Germany who felt Aryan nationals were genetically superior to others, then you are truly deluded.


So you are now back tracking completely from linking people supporting Brexit to former genocidal Germans and comparing the UK now to the UK from a couple of hundreds years ago, by linking in the Potato famine.

Plus you assume automatically that Brexit will cause Sectarian violence in Northern Ireland.

Do you not think maybe people supporting Brexit have looked at the UK at a whole when looking at how the UK voted? England and Wales voted leave, whilst NI and Scotland did not. It was a UK vote after all.
 
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speedygonzales
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:49 pm

The WA was once again rejected, but much closer than before - 344 to 286. Now the MPs have to weeks to either revoke (very unlikely IMHO) or come up with a plan that's acceptable for the EU (less unlikely) in order to avoid crashing out.
Ignorance kills. :tombstone:
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:55 pm

Long extension now only way, EU elections will follow with either

a) General Election,
b) Confirmatory Referendum
c) revocation

I vote for (b) but would love (c)
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:57 pm

speedygonzales wrote:
The WA was once again rejected, but much closer than before - 344 to 286. Now the MPs have to weeks to either revoke (very unlikely IMHO) or come up with a plan that's acceptable for the EU (less unlikely) in order to avoid crashing out.


A defeat by 58 votes is still quite significant given the Government theoretically has a narrow majority with the DUP.

Now we move on to the second round of indicative votes on Monday. As I suggested previously, dull it won't be.
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There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:03 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I have said it before, UK parliament is ONLY capable of voting “No” on ANYTHING tabled. So, this Friday I expect them to vote “No” as well.


speedygonzales wrote:
The WA was once again rejected, but much closer than before - 344 to 286. Now the MPs have to weeks to either revoke (very unlikely IMHO) or come up with a plan that's acceptable for the EU (less unlikely) in order to avoid crashing out.


Did I win something for predicting another NO vote? :D
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:15 pm

scbriml wrote:
Yet more delusion, even at this stage:

Dominic Raab, yes him, yesterday said it still wasn't too late for May to get the EU to make changes to the Political Declaration.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardell ... deal-delay
Asked about Raab’s remarks, an EU official said: “Oh for fuck sake.”


:rotfl:


I don't think he's totally wrong on that one. Only the WA matters, the EU is quite happy to put whatever into the political declaration, as it's not worth the paper it's written on.

From my understanding May is trying to get her WA passed with opposition support, as Labor is fine with the WA, and only disagrees with the political declaration that says the UK doesn't want a customs union etc. If she changes the UK position (after indicative votes for example) then the political declaration could say that the UK wants a customs union after all.

edit : didn't see it was already over.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:21 pm

The fact that Brexit day has effectively just become the day in which Brexit begins it's death is, frankly, hilarious.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:31 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
The fact that Brexit day has effectively just become the day in which Brexit begins it's death is, frankly, hilarious.


I hope the EU kicks them out on april 12th. No more “negotiations”, the UK has chosen not to accept the WA for the third time. It’s time for Europe to move on and kick that spoiled child out. They want unicorns and rainbows, they can get it.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:42 pm

TM starts to talks bout being part of EU parliament elections.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:46 pm

Richard28 wrote:
Long extension now only way, EU elections will follow with either

a) General Election,
b) Confirmatory Referendum
c) revocation

I vote for (b) but would love (c)


Most likely no deal.

The Government does not want a GE
There will be no further public vote.
The EU will not accept an extension as MPs in Parliament have their own agendas.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:51 pm

You do all realise that in the unlikely event we do get an extension and have to enter the pointless EU elections, UKIP will be the largest political party representing the UK.
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:53 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
You do all realise that in the unlikely event we do get an extension and have to enter the pointless EU elections, UKIP will be the largest political party representing the UK.

One very good reason to kick you out. Cut out the cancer
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:32 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
You do all realise that in the unlikely event we do get an extension and have to enter the pointless EU elections, UKIP will be the largest political party representing the UK.


Brexit logic... How can electing people to represent your interest be pointless, would you prefer to be unrepresented? Or is it just that everything European must be bad in your weird world?

marcelh wrote:
One very good reason to kick you out. Cut out the cancer


I empathise with you marcelh... its not a great time to be British - but I promise there are some good people left.

Remember also:

  • Support for UKIP is down to 5%, much lower than at the time of the last European elections.
  • Support for Brexit is now down to 35%, there has been a huge slump in support for the project
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:38 pm

Richard28 wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
You do all realise that in the unlikely event we do get an extension and have to enter the pointless EU elections, UKIP will be the largest political party representing the UK.


Brexit logic... How can electing people to represent your interest be pointless, would you prefer to be unrepresented? Or is it just that everything European must be bad in your weird world?

marcelh wrote:
One very good reason to kick you out. Cut out the cancer


I empathise with you marcelh... its not a great time to be British - but I promise there are some good people left.

Remember also:

  • Support for UKIP is down to 5%, much lower than at the time of the last European elections.
  • Support for Brexit is now down to 35%, there has been a huge slump in support for the project


Support for UKIP was lower at the last election because we expected to be leaving the wretched EU today. Unfortunately Parliament has let us all down.

In the unlikely event we are forced to participate in the pointless EU elections, I assure you UKIP will secure more votes than any other party.

But hopefully the EU will do us all a favour and let us leave with no deal.

I know remainers suffer from terrible hysteria, but there is no need to be scared.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... d-governor
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:43 pm

So Brexiteers are now hoping for the EU to bring the Brexit to them.... if you thought it could not get any stranger.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:47 pm

seahawk wrote:
So Brexiteers are now hoping for the EU to bring the Brexit to them.... if you thought it could not get any stranger.


It is all we can now hope for. Parliament has let the people down and all we can hope for now is the no deal so many of us crave so badly.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:52 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Most likely no deal.

The Government does not want a GE
There will be no further public vote.
The EU will not accept an extension as MPs in Parliament have their own agendas.


No-deal is the least likely outcome, IMHO. As PM said, we will not leave on a no-deal basis unless Parliament votes for it. So far, no-deal has been defeated resoundingly three times.

Conservatives would most likely win a GE, regardless of whether they want one or not. Labour's polling is a disgrace given the Government's performance over the last two years. But, IMHO that's more a reflection of the Corbyn/McDonnell axis than the Government's failings.

The irony of being so sure there won't be another public vote is that if the Government had tied the WA to a confirmatory referendum, it would have easily passed. Why are Brexiteers so afraid of this option? Just to clarify, I take Anna Soubry's position on this. Parliament approves WA+PD, public then has vote on Remain in EU vs. Leave EU with no-deal OR Leave with WA+PD. That's it, finished. No further public or Parliamentary voting. What's wrong with that option? Are you afraid you won't get want you want if people actually know what they're voting for?

I could understand why EU leaders might be reluctant to grant a longer extension, but they really don't want a no-deal Brexit either. But the Government would have to have a plan B, which may be a result of the voting on Monday.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:53 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:

Support for UKIP was lower at the last election because we expected to be leaving the wretched EU today. Unfortunately Parliament has let us all down.


read what I said.... last European election

UKIP had 26.6% vote share in 2014... they are nowhere near that now.... not even close.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:57 pm

I'm signing off for the weekend

enjoy #NoBrexitDay everyone... I'l be enjoying a glass of fine french wine tonight, heck, maybe even some Prosecco :bouncy:
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:57 pm

Richard28 wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Support for UKIP was lower at the last election because we expected to be leaving the wretched EU today. Unfortunately Parliament has let us all down.


read what I said.... last European election

UKIP had 26.6% vote share in 2014... they are nowhere near that now.... not even close.


And since that time 17,000,000 people have been screwed over.

I know there is general disinterest in Euro elections in the UK, but UKIP will attract most votes if we are forced to partake this in this pointless exercise.

I know Parliament rejected no deal, but Parliament has rejected all options. No deal is our default option and nothing will get agreed before April 12th.
 
marcelh
Posts: 640
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:00 pm

Richard28 wrote:
but I promise there are some good people left.

I know and I’ve said it before that I do really feel sorry for the people who want to remain. But your government has made a huge cluserf.ck of this proces and there is no time left.
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:02 pm

seahawk wrote:
So Brexiteers are now hoping for the EU to bring the Brexit to them.... if you thought it could not get any stranger.

And when there are no unicorns and rainbows, guess who gets the blame of those idiots?
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:08 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Support for UKIP was lower at the last election because we expected to be leaving the wretched EU today. Unfortunately Parliament has let us all down.


read what I said.... last European election

UKIP had 26.6% vote share in 2014... they are nowhere near that now.... not even close.


And since that time 17,000,000 people have been screwed over.

I know there is general disinterest in Euro elections in the UK, but UKIP will attract most votes if we are forced to partake this in this pointless exercise.

I know Parliament rejected no deal, but Parliament has rejected all options. No deal is our default option and nothing will get agreed before April 12th.

A lot more than those 17,000,000 - ignorant and narrowminded - people will be screwed, but let it happen.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:09 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Parliament has let the people down and all we can hope for now is the no deal so many of us crave so badly.


Only the extremist minority want a no-deal Brexit. It's a good job MPs have more sense.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:14 pm

marcelh wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:

read what I said.... last European election

UKIP had 26.6% vote share in 2014... they are nowhere near that now.... not even close.


And since that time 17,000,000 people have been screwed over.

I know there is general disinterest in Euro elections in the UK, but UKIP will attract most votes if we are forced to partake this in this pointless exercise.

I know Parliament rejected no deal, but Parliament has rejected all options. No deal is our default option and nothing will get agreed before April 12th.

A lot more than those 17,000,000 - ignorant and narrowminded - people will be screwed, but let it happen.


Hilarious.

are all people that think differently to you ignorant and narrow minded??

Thank you for making me laugh.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 9489
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:31 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Long extension now only way, EU elections will follow with either

a) General Election,
b) Confirmatory Referendum
c) revocation

I vote for (b) but would love (c)


Most likely no deal.

The Government does not want a GE
There will be no further public vote.
The EU will not accept an extension as MPs in Parliament have their own agendas.



And Parliament doesn't want no deal and yet you seem to conveniently forget that fact.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:32 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
And since that time 17,000,000 people have been screwed over.


How so? How about the nearly 50 million that didn't vote for Brexit? They'd be screwed over by the no-deal Brexit you so wantonly crave.

Seriously, screwed over? You just claimed no-deal is happening on 12th April. Is a two week delay being screwed over? I'm sure you'll get over it, even if you had to rearrange your Brexit party.

Richard28 wrote:
I'm signing off for the weekend

enjoy #NoBrexitDay everyone... I'l be enjoying a glass of fine french wine tonight, heck, maybe even some Prosecco :bouncy:


:checkmark: :champagne:

Enjoy the weekend and let's see what fun Monday brings.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:33 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

And since that time 17,000,000 people have been screwed over.

I know there is general disinterest in Euro elections in the UK, but UKIP will attract most votes if we are forced to partake this in this pointless exercise.

I know Parliament rejected no deal, but Parliament has rejected all options. No deal is our default option and nothing will get agreed before April 12th.

A lot more than those 17,000,000 - ignorant and narrowminded - people will be screwed, but let it happen.


Hilarious.

are all people that think differently to you ignorant and narrow minded??

Thank you for making me laugh.


You focused on detail yet you miss the point being made........a lot more than those 17,000,000. And your assumption that all those 17m people voted for a hard Brexit is the thing that is laughable. Just shows that you haven't paid any attention in the past 3 years, which is quite remarkable in itself.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 707
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:33 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Long extension now only way, EU elections will follow with either

a) General Election,
b) Confirmatory Referendum
c) revocation

I vote for (b) but would love (c)


Most likely no deal.

The Government does not want a GE
There will be no further public vote.
The EU will not accept an extension as MPs in Parliament have their own agendas.



And Parliament doesn't want no deal and yet you seem to conveniently forget that fact.


No I haven’t forgot that.

Parliament cannot agree on anything.

The EU has no reason to offer an extension, hence no deal is our default position.

Have you conveniently forgot that?

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