LJ
Posts: 4765
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:42 am

A101 wrote:
Remember the EU have already got their plans done and dust, well no they haven't.


Maybe you should read the article. The EU knows what it will do (either border between NI and Ireland or temporarily between Ireland and the rest of the EU). It's that Ireland still doesn't want to build the border between NI and Ireland (probably because it sends the wrong message).
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 707
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:11 am

jcancel wrote:
Its time to ban Brexit.

Remainers should do Gandhi blockades. Shut commerce down. Demand 100% of the political power in Britain.

Demand the removal of all Brexiteers from Parliament.

Demand the closure of pro Brexiteer Facebook and Twitter groups.

Demand the removal of Brexiteers from business.

Demand a truth and reconciliation commission.

Demand a quick eradication of Brexit thought in Britain. It is poisonous, cancerous, and just like Naziism (except less damaging to others)


Yes comrade. You forgot to mention Gulags for ‘re-education’.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 707
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:14 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Well, it appears 'hard brexit' on April 12. I hope all the politicians and pro-brexit types are happy.


Yep I'll be happy when the shackles have been broken away. but I'm still not confident we will.


But you are perfectly fine to export your problems to the Republic of Ireland. To maintain the GFA they have to be chained to the sinking UK and you are cheering about that. I have zero sympathies for that point of view.


A101 wrote:
Hell no have I blamed anyone for Christ sakes, I merely point out that the EU is in fact not ready as some on here have said, certainty ROI is not ready.

Remember the EU have already got their plans done and dust, well no they haven't.


No, you have pointed out the real dilemma you Brexiteers let the Irish face. You know, or at least should know, that this is a consequence of your irresponsible wishes. Your childlike behavior of having the cake and eat it has real consequences for real people all over the EU. Firstly your fellow countrymen, but ok, if they want to shoot their foot of it is their choice and their problem, but it has negative economic consequences all over the EU, but more importantly, you put the Irish for an impossible dilemma. All is fine by you because you wanted this, you made the choice. You believed what a couple of City boys told you all those years.

For the first time I truly feel anger for this. It is time to grow-up and take some responsibility for this. You and 17million of your fellow countrymen voted for exactly this, so this is on you, all of you 17 million. So yes, I hope you will crash out. I hope Northern Ireland will vote to rejoin Ireland so they can be in the European family again, I hope that Scotland will follow suit and crash out of the UK and will rejoin the EU. And lastly, I hope that Wales and England will come to their senses and rejoin the EU after ten or more miserable years. I am very sorry for all the UK citizens whom voted remain, whom changed their mind and wanted to remain, whom strived to change the course towards the cliff edge, they fell victim to the Brexiteers. There is no point in reasoning with Brexiteers, they do not take any responsibility, just like the Brexitrimist in UK parliament. I am done, you finally did it, congrats, I want you out, I want a hard Brexit, I want the EU to move forward without this backwards nation.
Do you want a trade agreement, sure, you are back in line, see you in ten years or so. We have more important things to do. In the meantime we will take care you UK citizens in the EU, not to worry about them.
If you truly would take responsibility for your actions, you would give-up your right to move to Australia, no fallback position for you, like so many Brexitremist have like Nigal Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg or Boris Johnson. Then you would regain some of my respect. But for now, I have no respect at all for your opinion, none.


That is a bit hysterical is it not?

This cult like devotion some posters display towards the EU is very troubling. It is akin to North Korea and the Jong dynasty.
 
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seahawk
Posts: 8492
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:15 am

LJ wrote:
A101 wrote:
Remember the EU have already got their plans done and dust, well no they haven't.


Maybe you should read the article. The EU knows what it will do (either border between NI and Ireland or temporarily between Ireland and the rest of the EU). It's that Ireland still doesn't want to build the border between NI and Ireland (probably because it sends the wrong message).


And with border checks between Ireland and the EU, the back stop could be scrapped and the deal would go through. So it is just the EU and Ireland to blame for the delay of Brexit.
 
A101
Posts: 998
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:36 am

LJ wrote:
A101 wrote:
Remember the EU have already got their plans done and dust, well no they haven't.


Maybe you should read the article. The EU knows what it will do (either border between NI and Ireland or temporarily between Ireland and the rest of the EU). It's that Ireland still doesn't want to build the border between NI and Ireland (probably because it sends the wrong message).


And chancellor Merkel is just on a good will visit to Taoiseach Varadkar, nothing to see here move on nothing to see...……...EU ready for the no-deal exist
 
jcancel
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:35 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:40 am

This is not accurate. Many remainers dislike issues with the EU but know the alternatives are worse.

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:

Yep I'll be happy when the shackles have been broken away. but I'm still not confident we will.


But you are perfectly fine to export your problems to the Republic of Ireland. To maintain the GFA they have to be chained to the sinking UK and you are cheering about that. I have zero sympathies for that point of view.


A101 wrote:
Hell no have I blamed anyone for Christ sakes, I merely point out that the EU is in fact not ready as some on here have said, certainty ROI is not ready.

Remember the EU have already got their plans done and dust, well no they haven't.


No, you have pointed out the real dilemma you Brexiteers let the Irish face. You know, or at least should know, that this is a consequence of your irresponsible wishes. Your childlike behavior of having the cake and eat it has real consequences for real people all over the EU. Firstly your fellow countrymen, but ok, if they want to shoot their foot of it is their choice and their problem, but it has negative economic consequences all over the EU, but more importantly, you put the Irish for an impossible dilemma. All is fine by you because you wanted this, you made the choice. You believed what a couple of City boys told you all those years.

For the first time I truly feel anger for this. It is time to grow-up and take some responsibility for this. You and 17million of your fellow countrymen voted for exactly this, so this is on you, all of you 17 million. So yes, I hope you will crash out. I hope Northern Ireland will vote to rejoin Ireland so they can be in the European family again, I hope that Scotland will follow suit and crash out of the UK and will rejoin the EU. And lastly, I hope that Wales and England will come to their senses and rejoin the EU after ten or more miserable years. I am very sorry for all the UK citizens whom voted remain, whom changed their mind and wanted to remain, whom strived to change the course towards the cliff edge, they fell victim to the Brexiteers. There is no point in reasoning with Brexiteers, they do not take any responsibility, just like the Brexitrimist in UK parliament. I am done, you finally did it, congrats, I want you out, I want a hard Brexit, I want the EU to move forward without this backwards nation.
Do you want a trade agreement, sure, you are back in line, see you in ten years or so. We have more important things to do. In the meantime we will take care you UK citizens in the EU, not to worry about them.
If you truly would take responsibility for your actions, you would give-up your right to move to Australia, no fallback position for you, like so many Brexitremist have like Nigal Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg or Boris Johnson. Then you would regain some of my respect. But for now, I have no respect at all for your opinion, none.


That is a bit hysterical is it not?

This cult like devotion some posters display towards the EU is very troubling. It is akin to North Korea and the Jong dynasty.


The only camp needed is the Nuremburg for the high officials. The pensioners and other die hard Brexiteers will change on their own when their propaganda stops.

noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
Its time to ban Brexit.

Remainers should do Gandhi blockades. Shut commerce down. Demand 100% of the political power in Britain.

Demand the removal of all Brexiteers from Parliament.

Demand the closure of pro Brexiteer Facebook and Twitter groups.

Demand the removal of Brexiteers from business.

Demand a truth and reconciliation commission.

Demand a quick eradication of Brexit thought in Britain. It is poisonous, cancerous, and just like Naziism (except less damaging to others)


Yes comrade. You forgot to mention Gulags for ‘re-education’.


Which the UK isnt ready for.

A101 wrote:
LJ wrote:
A101 wrote:
Remember the EU have already got their plans done and dust, well no they haven't.


Maybe you should read the article. The EU knows what it will do (either border between NI and Ireland or temporarily between Ireland and the rest of the EU). It's that Ireland still doesn't want to build the border between NI and Ireland (probably because it sends the wrong message).


And chancellor Merkel is just on a good will visit to Taoiseach Varadkar, nothing to see here move on nothing to see...……...EU ready for the no-deal exist
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 707
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:47 am

jcancel wrote:
This is not accurate. Many remainers dislike issues with the EU but know the alternatives are worse.

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

But you are perfectly fine to export your problems to the Republic of Ireland. To maintain the GFA they have to be chained to the sinking UK and you are cheering about that. I have zero sympathies for that point of view.




No, you have pointed out the real dilemma you Brexiteers let the Irish face. You know, or at least should know, that this is a consequence of your irresponsible wishes. Your childlike behavior of having the cake and eat it has real consequences for real people all over the EU. Firstly your fellow countrymen, but ok, if they want to shoot their foot of it is their choice and their problem, but it has negative economic consequences all over the EU, but more importantly, you put the Irish for an impossible dilemma. All is fine by you because you wanted this, you made the choice. You believed what a couple of City boys told you all those years.

For the first time I truly feel anger for this. It is time to grow-up and take some responsibility for this. You and 17million of your fellow countrymen voted for exactly this, so this is on you, all of you 17 million. So yes, I hope you will crash out. I hope Northern Ireland will vote to rejoin Ireland so they can be in the European family again, I hope that Scotland will follow suit and crash out of the UK and will rejoin the EU. And lastly, I hope that Wales and England will come to their senses and rejoin the EU after ten or more miserable years. I am very sorry for all the UK citizens whom voted remain, whom changed their mind and wanted to remain, whom strived to change the course towards the cliff edge, they fell victim to the Brexiteers. There is no point in reasoning with Brexiteers, they do not take any responsibility, just like the Brexitrimist in UK parliament. I am done, you finally did it, congrats, I want you out, I want a hard Brexit, I want the EU to move forward without this backwards nation.
Do you want a trade agreement, sure, you are back in line, see you in ten years or so. We have more important things to do. In the meantime we will take care you UK citizens in the EU, not to worry about them.
If you truly would take responsibility for your actions, you would give-up your right to move to Australia, no fallback position for you, like so many Brexitremist have like Nigal Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg or Boris Johnson. Then you would regain some of my respect. But for now, I have no respect at all for your opinion, none.


That is a bit hysterical is it not?

This cult like devotion some posters display towards the EU is very troubling. It is akin to North Korea and the Jong dynasty.


The only camp needed is the Nuremburg for the high officials. The pensioners and other die hard Brexiteers will change on their own when their propaganda stops.

noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
Its time to ban Brexit.

Remainers should do Gandhi blockades. Shut commerce down. Demand 100% of the political power in Britain.

Demand the removal of all Brexiteers from Parliament.

Demand the closure of pro Brexiteer Facebook and Twitter groups.

Demand the removal of Brexiteers from business.

Demand a truth and reconciliation commission.

Demand a quick eradication of Brexit thought in Britain. It is poisonous, cancerous, and just like Naziism (except less damaging to others)


Yes comrade. You forgot to mention Gulags for ‘re-education’.


Which the UK isnt ready for.

A101 wrote:
LJ wrote:

Maybe you should read the article. The EU knows what it will do (either border between NI and Ireland or temporarily between Ireland and the rest of the EU). It's that Ireland still doesn't want to build the border between NI and Ireland (probably because it sends the wrong message).


And chancellor Merkel is just on a good will visit to Taoiseach Varadkar, nothing to see here move on nothing to see...……...EU ready for the no-deal exist


You need to give Brexit voters more credit. 17.2 million did not vote on the basis of propaganda. And they will not just change their minds.
 
jcancel
Posts: 133
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:07 am

A lot of them did vote on the basis of propaganda promising the moon. I honestly dont think too many out there are truly hardcore leavers.

noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
This is not accurate. Many remainers dislike issues with the EU but know the alternatives are worse.

noviorbis77 wrote:

That is a bit hysterical is it not?

This cult like devotion some posters display towards the EU is very troubling. It is akin to North Korea and the Jong dynasty.


The only camp needed is the Nuremburg for the high officials. The pensioners and other die hard Brexiteers will change on their own when their propaganda stops.

noviorbis77 wrote:

Yes comrade. You forgot to mention Gulags for ‘re-education’.


Which the UK isnt ready for.

A101 wrote:

And chancellor Merkel is just on a good will visit to Taoiseach Varadkar, nothing to see here move on nothing to see...……...EU ready for the no-deal exist


You need to give Brexit voters more credit. 17.2 million did not vote on the basis of propaganda. And they will not just change their minds.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:07 am

jcancel wrote:
This is not accurate. Many remainers dislike issues with the EU but know the alternatives are worse.


so you acknowledge the EU is no utopia, but are only stay for the devil you know, The EU the land of milk and honey


jcancel wrote:
The only camp needed is the Nuremburg for the high officials. The pensioners and other die hard Brexiteers will change on their own when their propaganda stops.


I thought you would exile them to Argentina



jcancel wrote:
Which the UK isnt ready for.


We are not spruiking fairy dust saying we are ready...………..the hills are alive with the sound of music
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:17 am

jcancel wrote:
A lot of them did vote on the basis of propaganda promising the moon. I honestly dont think too many out there are truly hardcore leavers.

noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
This is not accurate. Many remainers dislike issues with the EU but know the alternatives are worse.



The only camp needed is the Nuremburg for the high officials. The pensioners and other die hard Brexiteers will change on their own when their propaganda stops.



Which the UK isnt ready for.



You need to give Brexit voters more credit. 17.2 million did not vote on the basis of propaganda. And they will not just change their minds.


Can you provide a figure please of how many of the 17.2 million voted because of propaganda.

Or are you making assumptions?
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:54 am

seahawk wrote:
LJ wrote:
A101 wrote:
Remember the EU have already got their plans done and dust, well no they haven't.


Maybe you should read the article. The EU knows what it will do (either border between NI and Ireland or temporarily between Ireland and the rest of the EU). It's that Ireland still doesn't want to build the border between NI and Ireland (probably because it sends the wrong message).


And with border checks between Ireland and the EU, the back stop could be scrapped and the deal would go through. So it is just the EU and Ireland to blame for the delay of Brexit.


However, Ireland doesn't want border checks on goods coming to/from Ireland and thus have to start its preparations (which it hoped didn't need to do and thus didn't do yet).
 
bennett123
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:57 am

Not sure what putting an end date on the WA agreement would achieve. Particularly, as we never said what end date we wanted.

Also, an end date without mutual agreement was also going to be an issue.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:24 am

A101 wrote:
Any business would do there due diligence and factor in all that, the way you carrying on that no business has to deal with any of that when dealing with third countries and it’s going to stop trade or travel. Does it stop UK citizens now travelling to places where they have to do those things.

The way you guys carry on that there’s no life outside the Union and you a going to fall off the end of the world.


A lot of UK trade goes out through EU ports like Rotterdam to get to the third countries though A101. Likewise a lot of UK third country imports come in through the EU.

So this *current* third country trade that routes through these euro hubs will get caught up in the Dover queues. This will become a huge headache for UK trade with checks needing to take place on Dutch & UK borders coming in, and at French borders on the way out.

The UK does not have sufficient infrastructure to do all our third country trade directly - we are reliant on the EU.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:31 am

What has been very disappointing about all the indicative votes so far has been the nearly perfect split along party political lines. This is much bigger that party politics, FFS. :banghead:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:44 am

scbriml wrote:
What has been very disappointing about all the indicative votes so far has been the nearly perfect split along party political lines. This is much bigger that party politics, FFS. :banghead:


Yes, tories and Labour are just fighting for power and show not to care about the consequences of Brexit beyond their chance to remain/gain power, but equally disappointing is that some Remain-parties like the LibDems do not vote for any sort of compromise amendments like the Norway+ option or the CU: only the purest form of EU membership is worthy of voting for, to them.

I think its high time MPs and TM let go of their 'winner takes all' mindset which is deeply rooted in the British political class because of its FPTP electoral system and get round the idea of having to compromise with opponents: you can't build a country on a 52/48 devide (or an imaginary 48/52 ico a successful second referendum): there will have to be some sort of a Brexit delivered, and it likely will be a very ugly one which nobody likes: so is the nature of compromise solutions.... yet the alternative is a perpetual gridlock in which nothing ever moves, as there will always be enough votes to deny the others from achieving anything, but never enough to achieve anything yourself either.
Last edited by sabenapilot on Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
sevenair
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:45 am

Hi Chicks! I’m back! Missed me?

Well, I see the sneering arrogant middle classes are still trying to engineer a second referendum to get those thick, whites racists to change their mind.
#NotAllDrones
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 201
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:56 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
You need to give Brexit voters more credit. 17.2 million did not vote on the basis of propaganda. And they will not just change their minds.


Well they clearly did, and so have many MPs because of the clear mis-understandings still being spouted (this is the kindest word I can use) of how certain trade rules, EU laws, how the EU actually works, freedom of movement stats etc. Some of it was clear propaganda, from Vote Leave (who by the way withdrew their appeal against the Electoral Comission ruling this week = clear fraud in the referendum), some of it always was and still is just plain and simple disinterest in changing their opinion because they have effectively been brainwashed by decades of crap from newspapers, political ideology and from many many Tories a deep seated need to get away from EU financial laws that just kicked in, and vested interests.

Enough people did vote on the basis of propaganda to have changed the result of the referendum. We know this from looking at polling data from one month prior to 3 months after the vote.

Any what Brexit did all 17.2 million vote for? The answer is not a Hard Brexit.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:24 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
But you are perfectly fine to export your problems to the Republic of Ireland. To maintain the GFA they have to be chained to the sinking UK and you are cheering about that. I have zero sympathies for that point of view.


We are not exporting our problems on anyone, the problems created in the WA are joint all the EU had to do was put a time limit on the WA and it would sail past the problems in parliament. But no cant do that that means they lose a bargaining chip


Yes, you do. You deliberately put Ireland in a tight spot. Choose between the Good Friday Agreement or the common market. There is no solution to this if there is a hard Brexit. There needs to be a solution and as the record shows with Brexit, time limit will not solve anything. So the limit is put on the outcome and it should be.

And as you deny this, you are not taking any responsibility for your vote, as I have stated before and you are illustrating again.

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

No, you have pointed out the real dilemma you Brexiteers let the Irish face. You know,


But but your ready...……. should we now take what the EU says with a pinch of salt, after all the EU is held in such high esteem

The EU has today completed its preparations for a no-deal Brexit in view of the fact this is ‘increasingly likely’ to occur on April 12.


The EU is ready to enforce the rules and will do so, in line with everything ever discussed and agreed up on.

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

For the first time I truly feel anger for this. It is time to grow-up and take some responsibility for this. You and 17million of your fellow countrymen voted for exactly this, so this is on you, all of you 17 million. So yes, I hope you will crash out. I hope Northern Ireland will vote to rejoin Ireland so they can be in the European family again, I hope that Scotland will follow suit and crash out of the UK and will rejoin the EU.


Difference between you and I is, I believe that they all should have a say if they want in out. Scotland has already had their say I'm prepared for the NI in the future if the want it and happy to abide by the results...…. but what I wont do is jump up and squeal like a baby because I didn't like the result like remoaner's do and force a change that the majority voted for.

What I'm waiting for from the remainers is a coup d'état. And I would not put it past them to do something like this


Things have changed quite a bit since the last referendum in Scotland, wouldn't you say? The UK put itself on a collision course with itself, so only fair that Scotland has another say in leaving because of changed circumstances. You wouldn't want a country to keep in chains because you are not ready to accept a different outcome, right? Democracy isn't the dictature of the majority.

Coup d'état? Now you are being just melodramatic.

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Do you want a trade agreement, sure, you are back in line, see you in ten years or so. We have more important things to do. In the meantime we will take care you UK citizens in the EU, not to worry about them.


That's ok, as we run a trade deficit with the EU according to you lot you wont miss the UK market all that much any how, I'm sure other would like to fill the void of trade between the UK/EU


Oh come on, not the old "they need us more, then we need them" rhetoric, this is becoming so old and Merkel and others already said that the integrity of the EU is far more important than trade with the UK. I feel the same, so let others fill the void, go ahead. You have 70 trade deals to make, all of whom will be at most the same as the EU and most probably far worse, and a trade deal will take around ten years to make. But you have detached yourself from reality, that doesn't mean it doesn't exsist.


A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
If you truly would take responsibility for your actions, you would give-up your right to move to Australia, no fallback position for you, like so many Brexitremist have like Nigal Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg or Boris Johnson. Then you would regain some of my respect. But for now, I have no respect at all for your opinion, none.


Your funny mate I'm dual national, I already have my retirement block of land paid for in Australia bought and paid for 20 years ago. Its just a matter of when I go over not if I go over.
[/quote]

And there you go, you will not face the ultimate consequence, you will leave when your vote causes the UK to crash. I have even less respect for your point of view. You have the same back door as Farage, Rees Mogg and the other city bunch. People whom will pay the price have no choice in leaving and a large portion didn't even vote for leaving. I have even less respect for your point of view.
Last edited by Dutchy on Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:24 am

sevenair wrote:
Hi Chicks! I’m back! Missed me?

Well, I see the sneering arrogant middle classes are still trying to engineer a second referendum to get those thick, whites racists to change their mind.

Welcome back, but your kind of collective inferiority complex had been quite well represented in your absence.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:31 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
You need to give Brexit voters more credit. 17.2 million did not vote on the basis of propaganda. And they will not just change their minds.


How do you know? Based on just pure demographics, part of that 17.2miilion is dead, so that would be a problem in voting again.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:33 am

Richard28 wrote:
A101 wrote:
Any business would do there due diligence and factor in all that, the way you carrying on that no business has to deal with any of that when dealing with third countries and it’s going to stop trade or travel. Does it stop UK citizens now travelling to places where they have to do those things.

The way you guys carry on that there’s no life outside the Union and you a going to fall off the end of the world.


A lot of UK trade goes out through EU ports like Rotterdam to get to the third countries though A101. Likewise a lot of UK third country imports come in through the EU.

So this *current* third country trade that routes through these euro hubs will get caught up in the Dover queues. This will become a huge headache for UK trade with checks needing to take place on Dutch & UK borders coming in, and at French borders on the way out.

The UK does not have sufficient infrastructure to do all our third country trade directly - we are reliant on the EU.


He doesn't care, he is older and has the option to leave when the country is going downhill. He personally doesn't have to pay the price.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:35 am

bennett123 wrote:
Not sure what putting an end date on the WA agreement would achieve. Particularly, as we never said what end date we wanted.

Also, an end date without mutual agreement was also going to be an issue.



But but, we are the UK, you need us more than we need you, we can demand anything and the trade deal will be the easiest in history.......
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:38 am

A101 wrote:
so you acknowledge the EU is no utopia, but are only stay for the devil you know, The EU the land of milk and honey


Whom on here ever said the EU is an utopia? I dare you to point one out. Enough post to choose from I would say, so it can't be that hard.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:17 am

Reinhardt wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
You need to give Brexit voters more credit. 17.2 million did not vote on the basis of propaganda. And they will not just change their minds.


Well they clearly did, and so have many MPs because of the clear mis-understandings still being spouted (this is the kindest word I can use) of how certain trade rules, EU laws, how the EU actually works, freedom of movement stats etc. Some of it was clear propaganda, from Vote Leave (who by the way withdrew their appeal against the Electoral Comission ruling this week = clear fraud in the referendum), some of it always was and still is just plain and simple disinterest in changing their opinion because they have effectively been brainwashed by decades of crap from newspapers, political ideology and from many many Tories a deep seated need to get away from EU financial laws that just kicked in, and vested interests.

Enough people did vote on the basis of propaganda to have changed the result of the referendum. We know this from looking at polling data from one month prior to 3 months after the vote.

Any what Brexit did all 17.2 million vote for? The answer is not a Hard Brexit.



Can you please provide figures and objective sources please for the total number of people who fell for “propaganda”? And how many did not want a hard Brexit. A rough number or percentage of the 17.2 million?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:22 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
You need to give Brexit voters more credit. 17.2 million did not vote on the basis of propaganda. And they will not just change their minds.


Well they clearly did, and so have many MPs because of the clear mis-understandings still being spouted (this is the kindest word I can use) of how certain trade rules, EU laws, how the EU actually works, freedom of movement stats etc. Some of it was clear propaganda, from Vote Leave (who by the way withdrew their appeal against the Electoral Comission ruling this week = clear fraud in the referendum), some of it always was and still is just plain and simple disinterest in changing their opinion because they have effectively been brainwashed by decades of crap from newspapers, political ideology and from many many Tories a deep seated need to get away from EU financial laws that just kicked in, and vested interests.

Enough people did vote on the basis of propaganda to have changed the result of the referendum. We know this from looking at polling data from one month prior to 3 months after the vote.

Any what Brexit did all 17.2 million vote for? The answer is not a Hard Brexit.



Can you please provide figures and objective sources please for the total number of people who fell for “propaganda”? And how many did not want a hard Brexit. A rough number or percentage of the 17.2 million?


Could you provide the figures fom a reliable and objective source the percentage of people whom voted for a hard Brexit knowing all the consequences? Thanks.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
jcancel
Posts: 133
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:54 am

Start charging UK citizens income taxes overseas. In particular make a new Brexit tax for Brexiteers trying to escape consequences.

Dutchy wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
A101 wrote:
Any business would do there due diligence and factor in all that, the way you carrying on that no business has to deal with any of that when dealing with third countries and it’s going to stop trade or travel. Does it stop UK citizens now travelling to places where they have to do those things.

The way you guys carry on that there’s no life outside the Union and you a going to fall off the end of the world.


A lot of UK trade goes out through EU ports like Rotterdam to get to the third countries though A101. Likewise a lot of UK third country imports come in through the EU.

So this *current* third country trade that routes through these euro hubs will get caught up in the Dover queues. This will become a huge headache for UK trade with checks needing to take place on Dutch & UK borders coming in, and at French borders on the way out.

The UK does not have sufficient infrastructure to do all our third country trade directly - we are reliant on the EU.


He doesn't care, he is older and has the option to leave when the country is going downhill. He personally doesn't have to pay the price.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:09 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:

Well they clearly did, and so have many MPs because of the clear mis-understandings still being spouted (this is the kindest word I can use) of how certain trade rules, EU laws, how the EU actually works, freedom of movement stats etc. Some of it was clear propaganda, from Vote Leave (who by the way withdrew their appeal against the Electoral Comission ruling this week = clear fraud in the referendum), some of it always was and still is just plain and simple disinterest in changing their opinion because they have effectively been brainwashed by decades of crap from newspapers, political ideology and from many many Tories a deep seated need to get away from EU financial laws that just kicked in, and vested interests.

Enough people did vote on the basis of propaganda to have changed the result of the referendum. We know this from looking at polling data from one month prior to 3 months after the vote.

Any what Brexit did all 17.2 million vote for? The answer is not a Hard Brexit.



Can you please provide figures and objective sources please for the total number of people who fell for “propaganda”? And how many did not want a hard Brexit. A rough number or percentage of the 17.2 million?


Could you provide the figures fom a reliable and objective source the percentage of people whom voted for a hard Brexit knowing all the consequences? Thanks.


I’m not the one making claims or assumptions
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:10 am

jcancel wrote:
Start charging UK citizens income taxes overseas. In particular make a new Brexit tax for Brexiteers trying to escape consequences.


I think A101 would give up his UK citizenship if that was the case.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:13 am

jcancel wrote:
Start charging UK citizens income taxes overseas. In particular make a new Brexit tax for Brexiteers trying to escape consequences.

Dutchy wrote:
Richard28 wrote:

A lot of UK trade goes out through EU ports like Rotterdam to get to the third countries though A101. Likewise a lot of UK third country imports come in through the EU.

So this *current* third country trade that routes through these euro hubs will get caught up in the Dover queues. This will become a huge headache for UK trade with checks needing to take place on Dutch & UK borders coming in, and at French borders on the way out.

The UK does not have sufficient infrastructure to do all our third country trade directly - we are reliant on the EU.


He doesn't care, he is older and has the option to leave when the country is going downhill. He personally doesn't have to pay the price.


I am not sure that would be lawful.

Any country charging certain nationalities more in income tax, I think the ECJ and the lawyers would have a field day.

Plus I am not sure how individuals who supported Brexit could be identified.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:15 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:


Can you please provide figures and objective sources please for the total number of people who fell for “propaganda”? And how many did not want a hard Brexit. A rough number or percentage of the 17.2 million?


Could you provide the figures fom a reliable and objective source the percentage of people whom voted for a hard Brexit knowing all the consequences? Thanks.


I’m not the one making claims or assumptions


Yes, you do continuously in fact, the biggest is that Brexit will be good for your country. But more to the point, your assumption is that everyone whom voted leave, voted for a hard Brexit, along with you. If you don't do that assumption you would be in favor of a people's vote, that would be the logical move because we don't know what the people actually voted for, there is a whole pallet of possible Brexit's.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:18 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
Start charging UK citizens income taxes overseas. In particular make a new Brexit tax for Brexiteers trying to escape consequences.

Dutchy wrote:

He doesn't care, he is older and has the option to leave when the country is going downhill. He personally doesn't have to pay the price.


I am not sure that would be lawful.

Any country charging certain nationalities more in income tax, I think the ECJ and the lawyers would have a field day.

Plus I am not sure how individuals who supported Brexit could be identified.


You would be out of the EU, so the ECJ would not protect you anymore, just what you like to do.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:19 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Can you please provide figures and objective sources please for the total number of people who fell for “propaganda”? And how many did not want a hard Brexit. A rough number or percentage of the 17.2 million?


An example of some of the ads posted on Facebook in the run up to the referendum:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44966969

I consider the majority of these to be factually inaccurate and flat out lies - due to their tone can be described as "propaganda".

634,751 voters out of 33.5 (1.8%) needed to switch to remain for the result to be different. In the last few weeks leading up to the campaign there was a significant swing to leave, at the same time the majority of the extra Facebook ad spending went live. The graph showing this correlation has been posted here before. I firmly believe that the type of ads that were shown, in the volume, to the targeted 6m million accounts (details illegally obtained) by exceeding the amount of money they were allowed to spend had a significant impact on the result.

I'm not going to waste time re-posting everything else the Electoral Comission has already found and stated. And we still haven't had the result of the investigation proving that US companies were involved in the Vote Leave campain which is also illegal under UK and US law.

A hard brexit was not championed by any of the official leave campaigns during the referendum. It was never mentioned. It was always stated that staying in a customs union was wanted. The only people shouting that everyone that voted leave wanted a hard brexit, are those that support a hard brexit.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:21 am

sabenapilot wrote:
scbriml wrote:
What has been very disappointing about all the indicative votes so far has been the nearly perfect split along party political lines. This is much bigger that party politics, FFS. :banghead:


Yes, tories and Labour are just fighting for power and show not to care about the consequences of Brexit beyond their chance to remain/gain power, but equally disappointing is that some Remain-parties like the LibDems do not vote for any sort of compromise amendments like the Norway+ option or the CU: only the purest form of EU membership is worthy of voting for, to them.


Whatever your political leanings and whatever you think of May's "handling" of Brexit to date, I'm sure we can agree the whole of Parliament has let itself and the country down. What I also find ironic is that Parliament wanted to take control of the process in the belief they could solve it better than May, but two rounds of indicative voting later* has revealed no consensual way forward.

It's high time everybody took responsibility and make some big, bold decisions as to what happens next and to do so in a way that's compatible with reality. Do what's right for the country now, worry about the ballot box later and let history be the judge.

Finally, until the voting system is replaced with something along the lines of PR (not the AV system which failed in a referendum in 2011), I don't think parties are going to look beyond ideology and party lines and do what's right for the country, so compromise looks set to be absent from their vocabulary for the foreseeable. For all the criticism they got at the time and despite predictions it would quickly fail, the Coalition government in the period 2010-2015 succeeded in getting the Tories and Lib Dems together and staying together for the full 5 year parliamentary term.

*This really should have been one of May's first tasks shortly after becoming PM instead of vague "Brexit means Brexit" rhetoric and coming up with the idea of an early General Election in the hope an increased majority would work better.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:22 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
You need to give Brexit voters more credit. 17.2 million did not vote on the basis of propaganda. And they will not just change their minds.


How do you know? Based on just pure demographics, part of that 17.2miilion is dead, so that would be a problem in voting again.


Some of those who voted leave would now vote remain instead (and granted vice versa). The views of voters don't always stay the same.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:35 am

@Dutchy breathe mate, you'll give your self a heart attack

Dutchy wrote:

Yes, you do. You deliberately put Ireland in a tight spot. Choose between the Good Friday Agreement or the common market. There is no solution to this if there is a hard Brexit. There needs to be a solution and as the record shows with Brexit, time limit will not solve anything. So the limit is put on the outcome and it should be.

And as you deny this, you are not taking any responsibility for your vote, as I have stated before and you are illustrating again.


its a bit different when the shoe is on the other foot, EU was quick to hang TM out to dry with the WA now hey.

The time limit is in place so you cant keep the UK in the CU indefinitely, don't you get why parliament will not pass the WA as it stands


Dutchy wrote:

The EU is ready to enforce the rules and will do so, in line with everything ever discussed and agreed up on.


The EU is getting ready to throw ROI under the bus, just like they did with TM.

Merkel pressed Varadkar to explain his position that the government wouldn’t ever introduce physical infrastructure on the 310-mile (500-kilometer) border -- the German leader was concerned that this risked undercutting the EU’s negotiating position on the so-called backstop.


it might be worth them abandoning the EU as well and re-establishing the Anglo-Irish free trade agreement
EU tax plan ‘is a bigger threat to Ireland than Brexit’

State could lose €4bn in taxes if corporate tax harmonisation is adopted, expert says



Dutchy wrote:

Things have changed quite a bit since the last referendum in Scotland, wouldn't you say? The UK put itself on a collision course with itself, so only fair that Scotland has another say in leaving because of changed circumstances. You wouldn't want a country to keep in chains because you are not ready to accept a different outcome, right? Democracy isn't the dictature of the majority.


ah off you go to the broken record keep asking for referendum until you get the result you want, Oliver Twist "please sir i want some more"

The datasets behind the polling, carried out by Survation were inadvertently and briefly posted online. They revealed that while 40% of Scottish voters supported remaining in the, just 24% were completely sure they wanted to leave the UK, but 56% of voters were still undecided and tempted by independence.


Dutchy wrote:

Coup d'état? Now you are being just melodramatic.


If they are willing to drop their pants in parliament, who knows what they will do next



Dutchy wrote:
Oh come on, not the old "they need us more, then we need them" rhetoric, this is becoming so old and Merkel and others already said that the integrity of the EU is far more important than trade with the UK. I feel the same, so let others fill the void, go ahead. You have 70 trade deals to make, all of whom will be at most the same as the EU and most probably far worse, and a trade deal will take around ten years to make. But you have detached yourself from reality, that doesn't mean it doesn't exsist.



it was you who brought up going to the back of the que, but its a simple fact of life if you don't want to sell to us I'm sure your competitor will. economics 101


Dutchy wrote:

And there you go, you will not face the ultimate consequence, you will leave when your vote causes the UK to crash. I have even less respect for your point of view. You have the same back door as Farage, Rees Mogg and the other city bunch. People whom will pay the price have no choice in leaving and a large portion didn't even vote for leaving. I have even less respect for your point of view.


So even though I have been planning my retirement well before the government position prior to Brexit was known I cant enjoy my life if and when I choose to retire early or not, just because on your say so, your dreamin mate
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:36 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
Start charging UK citizens income taxes overseas. In particular make a new Brexit tax for Brexiteers trying to escape consequences.



I am not sure that would be lawful.

Any country charging certain nationalities more in income tax, I think the ECJ and the lawyers would have a field day.

Plus I am not sure how individuals who supported Brexit could be identified.


You would be out of the EU, so the ECJ would not protect you anymore, just what you like to do.


Actually it would.

Third country non EU nationals have taken plenty of cases to the ECJ have they not?
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:41 am

Dutchy wrote:
jcancel wrote:
Start charging UK citizens income taxes overseas. In particular make a new Brexit tax for Brexiteers trying to escape consequences.


I think A101 would give up his UK citizenship if that was the case.


I have worked and paid my share of the tax burden and have no qualms of paying my share of contributions, after all a government is bankrupt if not for its citizens paying tax
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:44 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
jcancel wrote:
Start charging UK citizens income taxes overseas. In particular make a new Brexit tax for Brexiteers trying to escape consequences.



I am not sure that would be lawful.

Any country charging certain nationalities more in income tax, I think the ECJ and the lawyers would have a field day.

Plus I am not sure how individuals who supported Brexit could be identified.


You would be out of the EU, so the ECJ would not protect you anymore, just what you like to do.


that means his extreme thoughts would not be applicable either as leaving the EU was the will of the electorate
 
KLDC10
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:07 pm

Dutchy wrote:
For the first time I truly feel anger for this. It is time to grow-up and take some responsibility for this. You and 17million of your fellow countrymen voted for exactly this, so this is on you, all of you 17 million. So yes, I hope you will crash out. I hope Northern Ireland will vote to rejoin Ireland so they can be in the European family again, I hope that Scotland will follow suit and crash out of the UK and will rejoin the EU. And lastly, I hope that Wales and England will come to their senses and rejoin the EU after ten or more miserable years. I am very sorry for all the UK citizens whom voted remain, whom changed their mind and wanted to remain, whom strived to change the course towards the cliff edge, they fell victim to the Brexiteers. There is no point in reasoning with Brexiteers, they do not take any responsibility, just like the Brexitrimist in UK parliament. I am done, you finally did it, congrats, I want you out, I want a hard Brexit, I want the EU to move forward without this backwards nation.
Do you want a trade agreement, sure, you are back in line, see you in ten years or so. We have more important things to do. In the meantime we will take care you UK citizens in the EU, not to worry about them.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Give it a rest will you? Yours is exactly the sort of patronising, "Europe knows best" attitude we voted to get away from!
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
737/738/739/744/748/752/763/772/789
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noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:23 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
For the first time I truly feel anger for this. It is time to grow-up and take some responsibility for this. You and 17million of your fellow countrymen voted for exactly this, so this is on you, all of you 17 million. So yes, I hope you will crash out. I hope Northern Ireland will vote to rejoin Ireland so they can be in the European family again, I hope that Scotland will follow suit and crash out of the UK and will rejoin the EU. And lastly, I hope that Wales and England will come to their senses and rejoin the EU after ten or more miserable years. I am very sorry for all the UK citizens whom voted remain, whom changed their mind and wanted to remain, whom strived to change the course towards the cliff edge, they fell victim to the Brexiteers. There is no point in reasoning with Brexiteers, they do not take any responsibility, just like the Brexitrimist in UK parliament. I am done, you finally did it, congrats, I want you out, I want a hard Brexit, I want the EU to move forward without this backwards nation.
Do you want a trade agreement, sure, you are back in line, see you in ten years or so. We have more important things to do. In the meantime we will take care you UK citizens in the EU, not to worry about them.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Give it a rest will you? Yours is exactly the sort of patronising, "Europe knows best" attitude we voted to get away from!


This I wont miss when we have gone.

People from outside the UK, deciding what is best for the UK when it frankly is none of thejr business.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:36 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
You need to give Brexit voters more credit. 17.2 million did not vote on the basis of propaganda. And they will not just change their minds.


More than 10% of them *HAVE* changed their minds. All the polls (all of them!) put remain clearly ahead of leave for the last couple of months at least (no matter how the question was asked).

This is the thing that irks me the most - the MAJORITY of the populace and its voters are for remain, not leave - yet the government quite literally ignores them. (And even gives the crappy "will of the people" spiel in response to the petition to revoke - insensitive and insulting.)

Leaving the EU in any form IS NO LONGER THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. Leaving the EU in the "no deal" disaster scenario was NEVER THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE BY ANY DEFINITION.

Lies, lies, lies and more lies used as justification to go against the actual will of the people.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:50 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
More than 10% of them *HAVE* changed their minds. All the polls (all of them!) put remain clearly ahead of leave for the last couple of months at least (no matter how the question was asked).

This is the thing that irks me the most - the MAJORITY of the populace and its voters are for remain, not leave - yet the government quite literally ignores them. (And even gives the crappy "will of the people" spiel in response to the petition to revoke - insensitive and insulting.)

Leaving the EU in any form IS NO LONGER THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. Leaving the EU in the "no deal" disaster scenario was NEVER THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE BY ANY DEFINITION.

Lies, lies, lies and more lies used as justification to go against the actual will of the people.



You do remember the polls leading up to the referendum REMAIN will win, even the exist polls on the day suggested a remain win by 4%, and guess what it didn't get over the line


how can you say for certain that remain will get up

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47721011
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:02 pm

Only a second referendum can answer this question.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:03 pm

A101 wrote:
@Dutchy breathe mate, you'll give your self a heart attack

Dutchy wrote:

Yes, you do. You deliberately put Ireland in a tight spot. Choose between the Good Friday Agreement or the common market. There is no solution to this if there is a hard Brexit. There needs to be a solution and as the record shows with Brexit, time limit will not solve anything. So the limit is put on the outcome and it should be.

And as you deny this, you are not taking any responsibility for your vote, as I have stated before and you are illustrating again.


its a bit different when the shoe is on the other foot, EU was quick to hang TM out to dry with the WA now hey.

The time limit is in place so you cant keep the UK in the CU indefinitely, don't you get why parliament will not pass the WA as it stands


WA was a negotiated agreement. And your parliament wants more. You decided to leave, you leave Ireland hanging to dry, not Irelands fault.

Do you see why the end result is the thing that matters, not the time limit? Time limit is not acceptable to the EU otherwise the end result can be that Ireland is split and thus breaking the Good Friday Agreement. You wanted to leave, it is for you to come up with a sollution for the situation you created/

Dutchy wrote:

The EU is ready to enforce the rules and will do so, in line with everything ever discussed and agreed up on.


The EU is getting ready to throw ROI under the bus, just like they did with TM. [/quote]

TM wasn't thrown under a bus. The UK is ready to throw the RoI under a bus. Don't put it the other way around. You wanted to leave, you agreed to EU and WTO rules, it is up to your country.


Merkel pressed Varadkar to explain his position that the government wouldn’t ever introduce physical infrastructure on the 310-mile (500-kilometer) border -- the German leader was concerned that this risked undercutting the EU’s negotiating position on the so-called backstop.


it might be worth them abandoning the EU as well and re-establishing the Anglo-Irish free trade agreement [/quote]

Is that the end plan? Chain Ireland again to the UK? It is apparently ok for the UK to force itself on another country, and they will be the very junior partner in this agreenement, but the preceeved control of the EU is a big no-no, so if the shoe is on the other foot it is ok.

EU tax plan ‘is a bigger threat to Ireland than Brexit’

State could lose €4bn in taxes if corporate tax harmonisation is adopted, expert says


This has nothing to do with Brexit. But I guess you are not in favor of fair taxation and reducing corporate loopholes. But part of the 4bn in revenue comes from European HQ of Internationals in Ireland, they will lose those if they abandon the EU.

Dutchy wrote:

Things have changed quite a bit since the last referendum in Scotland, wouldn't you say? The UK put itself on a collision course with itself, so only fair that Scotland has another say in leaving because of changed circumstances. You wouldn't want a country to keep in chains because you are not ready to accept a different outcome, right? Democracy isn't the dictature of the majority.


ah off you go to the broken record keep asking for referendum until you get the result you want, Oliver Twist "please sir i want some more"
[/quote]

No, a fair chance to vote now that circumstances have changed, and oh man did they change, not even you will be able to deny it. Same for the public vote, put the end result to the people.

Dutchy wrote:

Coup d'état? Now you are being just melodramatic.


If they are willing to drop their pants in parliament, who knows what they will do next [/quote]

The Brixteers are willing to put the country itself in jeopardy. So a few people protesting in a ludic way without hurting anyone is quite modest I would say.

Dutchy wrote:
Oh come on, not the old "they need us more, then we need them" rhetoric, this is becoming so old and Merkel and others already said that the integrity of the EU is far more important than trade with the UK. I feel the same, so let others fill the void, go ahead. You have 70 trade deals to make, all of whom will be at most the same as the EU and most probably far worse, and a trade deal will take around ten years to make. But you have detached yourself from reality, that doesn't mean it doesn't exsist.



it was you who brought up going to the back of the que, but its a simple fact of life if you don't want to sell to us I'm sure your competitor will. economics 101
[/quote]

And at what price would you like to trade. 85% import tariff free and killing your own producers? We have quite a few trade agreements - the EU will crash out of them all - so I am sure we will find other markets. 65million is less than 500million, economics 101......

Dutchy wrote:

And there you go, you will not face the ultimate consequence, you will leave when your vote causes the UK to crash. I have even less respect for your point of view. You have the same back door as Farage, Rees Mogg and the other city bunch. People whom will pay the price have no choice in leaving and a large portion didn't even vote for leaving. I have even less respect for your point of view.


So even though I have been planning my retirement well before the government position prior to Brexit was known I cant enjoy my life if and when I choose to retire early or not, just because on your say so, your dreamin mate[/quote]

The point is, you are fighting for something which you can escape if the expected downfall comes. And that, my friend, is hipocracy, just like the other hardliners with plans of their own.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:42 pm

A101 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
More than 10% of them *HAVE* changed their minds. All the polls (all of them!) put remain clearly ahead of leave for the last couple of months at least (no matter how the question was asked).


You do remember the polls leading up to the referendum REMAIN will win, even the exist polls on the day suggested a remain win by 4%, and guess what it didn't get over the line

how can you say for certain that remain will get up


Because if you actually follow the polls it is a much clearer trend to a larger majority with far fewer "don't-knows". Across the board for all the pollsters for the last few months.

Last time, it was a wafer thin majority for remain in most - but not all - of the polls which had been fluctuating around 50/50 for the final few days.

Result then: 37% leave, 36% remain, 27% not voting - resulting in 52% leave, 48% remain

Current polls: ~45% remain, ~35% leave, ~20% don't know - projected to result in >55% remain, <45% leave


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47721011


What does that have to do with anything? A magician doesn't fool people after they know how the trick works.
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Dutchy
Posts: 9489
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:52 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
For the first time I truly feel anger for this. It is time to grow-up and take some responsibility for this. You and 17million of your fellow countrymen voted for exactly this, so this is on you, all of you 17 million. So yes, I hope you will crash out. I hope Northern Ireland will vote to rejoin Ireland so they can be in the European family again, I hope that Scotland will follow suit and crash out of the UK and will rejoin the EU. And lastly, I hope that Wales and England will come to their senses and rejoin the EU after ten or more miserable years. I am very sorry for all the UK citizens whom voted remain, whom changed their mind and wanted to remain, whom strived to change the course towards the cliff edge, they fell victim to the Brexiteers. There is no point in reasoning with Brexiteers, they do not take any responsibility, just like the Brexitrimist in UK parliament. I am done, you finally did it, congrats, I want you out, I want a hard Brexit, I want the EU to move forward without this backwards nation.
Do you want a trade agreement, sure, you are back in line, see you in ten years or so. We have more important things to do. In the meantime we will take care you UK citizens in the EU, not to worry about them.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Give it a rest will you? Yours is exactly the sort of patronising, "Europe knows best" attitude we voted to get away from!


All institutions and academic point in the same direction: leaving is the stupidest thing the UK can do, at least from a geopolitical and economic perspective. It is not the EU knows best, you are ignorant for denying this. That has nothing to do with patronism.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:52 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:

People from outside the UK, deciding what is best for the UK when it frankly is none of thejr business.


What a bang up job people from inside of the UK have done deciding what is best for the UK over the last 10 years.

Still your arguement is false. UK signed up to EU treaties, had a veto and helped shape and create EU law. Nobody outside of the UK has told it what to do against it's will. It's a myth, long since dispelled.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 17255
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:00 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Current polls: ~45% remain, ~35% leave, ~20% don't know - projected to result in >55% remain, <45% leave


Stop using facts! It just confuses the Brexiteers and frightens them.

Reinhardt wrote:
Still your arguement is false. UK signed up to EU treaties, had a veto and helped shape and create EU law. Nobody outside of the UK has told it what to do against it's will. It's a myth, long since dispelled.


Ditto.
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User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9489
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:08 pm

Dutchy wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
For the first time I truly feel anger for this. It is time to grow-up and take some responsibility for this. You and 17million of your fellow countrymen voted for exactly this, so this is on you, all of you 17 million. So yes, I hope you will crash out. I hope Northern Ireland will vote to rejoin Ireland so they can be in the European family again, I hope that Scotland will follow suit and crash out of the UK and will rejoin the EU. And lastly, I hope that Wales and England will come to their senses and rejoin the EU after ten or more miserable years. I am very sorry for all the UK citizens whom voted remain, whom changed their mind and wanted to remain, whom strived to change the course towards the cliff edge, they fell victim to the Brexiteers. There is no point in reasoning with Brexiteers, they do not take any responsibility, just like the Brexitrimist in UK parliament. I am done, you finally did it, congrats, I want you out, I want a hard Brexit, I want the EU to move forward without this backwards nation.
Do you want a trade agreement, sure, you are back in line, see you in ten years or so. We have more important things to do. In the meantime we will take care you UK citizens in the EU, not to worry about them.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Give it a rest will you? Yours is exactly the sort of patronising, "Europe knows best" attitude we voted to get away from!


All institutions and academic point in the same direction: leaving is the stupidest thing the UK can do, at least from a geopolitical and economic perspective. It is not the EU knows best, you are ignorant for denying this. That has nothing to do with patronism.


Oh btw, also your own civil servants, but I guess that is also all part of project fear, rights?

Top mandarin's bombshell No Deal warning:
Food up 10%, police unable to protect public, direct rule in Ulster, worse recession than 2008 says leaked letter

Sir Mark Sedwill's letter to ministers warns of the dangers of a No Deal Brexit, including in Northern Ireland
It comes with Parliament still in deadlock after the Commons rejected all four alternative Brexit plans again
Theresa May will today chair a marathon Cabinet meeting, as Tory MP Nick Boles dramatically quit the party


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rning.html
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 2987
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:15 pm

What hasn't been said and hasn't been discussed is the EU's stance if forced to defend its sovereignty by putting a hard border between ROI and North Ireland. Trade agreements will be slowed, denied, and inspection lines will grow ever longer until the UK puts forward an acceptable solution allowing removal of the border. EU has the right to control its borders, and a third rate economy (going fourth rate) will not go unchallenged. EU will be diplomatic, cautious, soft speaking - but implacable. Food and medicine supplies (etc) are and will be ensured. Airbus will be OK for the time being. The object is not the population of the UK, but the politicians.

ROI is part of the EU, North Ireland and Scotland wish to remain, as does most of London. I see consequences.
Last edited by frmrCapCadet on Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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