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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:36 pm

seahawk wrote:
You have seen the polls in the UK? Support for a Hard Brexit is rising and the Tories would even win additional seats in an election.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 64001.html


This is a testament to the complete and utter failure Corbyn's leadership has been on brexit. The Conservative Party is in complete and utter chaos - more factionalised. Support for the EU is increasing as people discover its benifits. There's been an open goal for 88 minutes but still they've managed not to score. :roll:

Labour had a chance to wipe out the Conservatives for a generation - something that would be very good for the poor people who they are supposed to represent, as well as the nation as a whole, but they've completely screwed it.
First to fly the 787-9
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:44 pm

I agree with zkojq,
It's simply amazing that the opposition can not make a success of the brexit mess the conservatives have made of it.
Any half decent LOTO would have managed to wipe the floor with them by now: Corbyn is a fine theorist, but a poor politician, that much is a given.
And so the situation goes to the wire and the country most possibly through the drain as businesses are no longer willing to wait for the British politicians to come to their senses.
Expect a steadily uppicking stream of announcements from big businesses like for that they are preparing their move: "it's for real".
I've said it before: I wouldn't like to be around any politician once the fall out from their mishandling of the whole mess becomes clear for all people to see and feel... I wouldnt feel safe!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:46 pm

Richard28 wrote:
It is so sad that the majority of constituents in these areas fell for the Brexit spin, and wrongly dismissed the threat to their own futures as "project fear"


and probably everyone on the shop floor knows who voted what. That will make for some interesting lunch conversation, or fist fights...

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:55 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
WITH the backstop and WITH all the provisions which will turn the UK into a real vassal state of Europe (and of which you hear no more these days because all of the critics focus on just the backstop alone, as if the rest of the deal is such a brilliant one?!)


Yes... it's quite weird how the backstop gets *ALL* the attention like it's the main point of the WA, yet if we assume further negotiations don't go nuclear(*) the backstop will NEVER BE USED.

I can't help feeling that politicians and media from all corners are using smoke and mirrors to deflect attention from the real issues here.

(*) I know, I know... past performance doesn't exclude another two years of mega-omnishambles, but let's hope that once the ERG is sidelined and there's been some shuffling of positions we can get some adults in the negotiating room.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:01 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
It is so sad that the majority of constituents in these areas fell for the Brexit spin, and wrongly dismissed the threat to their own futures as "project fear"


and probably everyone on the shop floor knows who voted what. That will make for some interesting lunch conversation, or fist fights...

best regards
Thomas


It will be extremely low hanging fruit for journalists to pluck by simply standing at the factory gates to ask worried workers live on their news shows how they voted on Brexit and what they think of it now.

TM's line of defense when NISSAN announced pulling back from any further investment in Sunderland, despite a massive £80M subsidy, was: "but no jobs will actually be lost". That line may not safe her next time...
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:24 pm

zkojq wrote:
seahawk wrote:
You have seen the polls in the UK? Support for a Hard Brexit is rising and the Tories would even win additional seats in an election.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 64001.html


This is a testament to the complete and utter failure Corbyn's leadership has been on brexit. The Conservative Party is in complete and utter chaos - more factionalised. Support for the EU is increasing as people discover its benifits. There's been an open goal for 88 minutes but still they've managed not to score. :roll:

Labour had a chance to wipe out the Conservatives for a generation - something that would be very good for the poor people who they are supposed to represent, as well as the nation as a whole, but they've completely screwed it.


Imho it will be the the no deal - hard Brexit. And to be honest it is the best solution for Europe.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... gel-farage
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:44 pm

I'll leave this here....

Image


No doubt deceitful adverts making false promises like these will feature heavily in the inevitable Brexit Enquiry when it happens.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:55 pm

Richard28 wrote:
And now American car manufacturer Ford is "making preparations" to move production out of the UK - “This isn’t about contingencies any more - we are taking steps because of the uncertainty. It’s real,”

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-brita ... KKCN1Q12SK

Ford directly employees 13,000 in the UK and has three main sites:

  • Bridgend (71.4% voted Leave in 2016 referendum)
  • Dagenham (62.4% voted Leave in 2016 referendum)
  • Dunton (68.6% voted Leave in 2016 referendum / Basildon constituency)

Any closure would of course have knock on consequences to many other UK businesses and jobs.

It is so sad that the majority of constituents in these areas fell for the Brexit spin, and wrongly dismissed the threat to their own futures as "project fear"


#DespiteBrexit Oh, wait...
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:17 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
And now American car manufacturer Ford is "making preparations" to move production out of the UK - “This isn’t about contingencies any more - we are taking steps because of the uncertainty. It’s real,”

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-brita ... KKCN1Q12SK

Ford directly employees 13,000 in the UK and has three main sites:

  • Bridgend (71.4% voted Leave in 2016 referendum)
  • Dagenham (62.4% voted Leave in 2016 referendum)
  • Dunton (68.6% voted Leave in 2016 referendum / Basildon constituency)

Any closure would of course have knock on consequences to many other UK businesses and jobs.

It is so sad that the majority of constituents in these areas fell for the Brexit spin, and wrongly dismissed the threat to their own futures as "project fear"


it's common courtesy for a CEO of a big multinational with large production sites to inform the government about any pending 'readjustments' a little bit before they are made official so the government can prepare their communication and set up after care for the affected workers and their areas...

Clearly something big is coming from Ford in the next few weeks, and it's not going to be yielding a brexit divident, I'm afraid.


Ford has been losing big money with their cars in the EC on-off for years. Brexit gives them a great opening to consolidate production at existing plants in the EU, especially in lower labour cost ones in Poland, Spain, Turkey and get fuller utilization in the German and other EU plants. They were planning to shut down a plant in France that made transmissions and one that made the C-Max.
I wouldn't be surprised PAS uses Brexit to shut down the ex-GM plants in the UK, and other carmakers to transfer/consolidate production elsewhere in the EU with cheaper labor, get better utilization, maybe even import models (as Nissan is suggesting) from Japan, China, maybe even the USA or due to commonwealth connections, Canada.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:25 pm

https://www.businessinsider.de/theresa- ... ?r=US&IR=T

And the next step to the real hard Brexit.
 
SQ325
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:46 pm

But still no problem because they get control of their country and their border back :hissyfit:
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:05 am

And this is while the warnings of the consequences become increasingly outspoken.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ate-setter
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:15 am

seahawk wrote:
And this is while the warnings of the consequences become increasingly outspoken.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ate-setter


Cost of Brexit to UK economy running at £40bn a year


That is double the dubious £350mln/week which was supposed to go to the NHS. But we all know that financial arguments for a Brexit don't work, so nothing to see here, just all according to guestimations. So wait for a real hard Brexit, but it is all worth it, because the British will gain.....................uhhhhhh..................what exactly?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:23 am

Dutchy wrote:
That is double the dubious £350mln/week which was supposed to go to the NHS. But we all know that financial arguments for a Brexit don't work, so nothing to see here, just all according to guestimations. So wait for a real hard Brexit, but it is all worth it, because the British will gain.....................uhhhhhh..................what exactly?


this

Image

this

Image

and more of this (but less places to sell it)

Image

£40 billion a year, great value, huh?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:21 pm

Richard28 wrote:
£40 billion a year, great value, huh?


Hey, you can't put a price on our new, mighty blue passports. Or that smart, commemorative 50p. We'll be the envy of the World! :sarcastic:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
bennett123
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:56 pm

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 26381.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... assport-eu

https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-pas ... 4-Dec2017/

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-eur ... fools-day/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42443253

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 24526.html

A quote from the last of these;

'Croatia notably refused to change the dark blue colour of its passports after joining the EU in 2013, with the interior minister telling local media: “The EU’s position is that there is no obligation.”'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passports ... pean_Union

Quote 'The European Union itself does not issue ordinary passports, but ordinary passport booklets issued by its 28 member states share a common format.[1] This common format features a coloured cover (for which burgundy is recommended but not compulsory: all countries except Croatia follow this recommendation) emblazoned—in the official language(s) of the issuing country (and sometimes its translation into English and French)—with the title "European Union", followed by the name(s) of the member state, its coat of arms, the word "PASSPORT", together with the biometric passport symbol at the bottom centre of the front cover.[2]'

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Le ... 19:EN:HTML

So the Heads of Govt of the Member States decided to standardise the colour in 1981. However, there is no evidence that they, (including Margaret Thatcher) were compelled to do so. This is demonstrated by Croatia's ability to opt out.

Do people really think that the UK was in a weaker position than Croatia.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:13 pm

If you think the British could not do more damage, you were mistaken.

How about openly questioning the foundations of NATO as blackmail during Brexit.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 8ed01b21f4
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:19 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Do people really think that the UK was in a weaker position than Croatia.


Of course nobody believes that. The whole blue passport thing is just a joke that remainers like to throw at Brexiteers because it sums them up nicely.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:03 am

seahawk wrote:
If you think the British could not do more damage, you were mistaken.

How about openly questioning the foundations of NATO as blackmail during Brexit.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 8ed01b21f4



The effect of Brexit and Trump will be the creation of the EU army -> exactly what UK and USA have been fighting to avoid the last 10 years. It will mean the creation of a EU based industry for arms -> just like USA and UK wanted to avoid.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:36 am

On the way to a national crisis, but parliament does not want to give up the no deal options.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... FcKYHPAE_g

But the USA is ready to give the UK a sweet deal, if the UK does what the USA wants. Who cares about customer protection ....

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 731aeaa525
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:03 pm

Weakening of the EU and Nato were the promises if elected. The only question is to whom the promises were made, and what the price was.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:38 pm

flybmi ceases operations and cites two Brexit related reasons:

The airline has faced several difficulties, including recent spikes in fuel and carbon costs, the latter arising from the EU’s recent decision to exclude UK airlines from full participation in the Emissions Trading Scheme. These issues have undermined efforts to move the airline into profit. Current trading and future prospects have also been seriously affected by the uncertainty created by the Brexit process, which has led to our inability to secure valuable flying contracts in Europe and lack of confidence around bmi’s ability to continue flying between destinations in Europe.

https://www.flybmi.com/

I can recall some members saying that Brexit doesn't have any to minimal impact for UK airlines. However, it has now grounded the first one (and not a small one). Basically the LH Group probably told flybmi that they're going to look for alternatives as the Brexit will mean flybmi wouldn't be able to fly intra-EU flights.

The statement from flybmi also means that UK airlines are partially excluded from the Emissions Trading Scheme whilst the UK still being an EU member. I wonder how many other EU organisations have started excluding UK based companies as I wouldn't have expected this to happen till after March 29th. Moreover, if flybmi sees increased costs in carbon costs as it didn't get full participation, what will be the impact on the other UK airlines?
 
BCal Dc10
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:46 pm

It’s been a while since I posted in this Brexit forum - I am fascinated by what’s going on from the other side of the Atlantic and wanted to share a few observations from an American perspective. I’ve had fun discussions with some of you in the past and they have been friendly polite discussions of the issues. - Plenty to say, so I hope y’all read it and come back with any sensible comments.

- i think the UK government has played this one so badly. From day 1. I think the issue stems from the fact that they didn’t think the Leave campaign actually thought they would win. IMO they should have spent a year planning what Brexit should mean before triggering the Article 50 leave clause or whatever that is.
A genuine question for you folk - if one of your countries voted to leave, would y’all be so amazingly well organized, and your parliaments all in total agreement in the leaving process too? I doubt it. It’s a divisive issue, and I doubt any country could leave in a smooth orderly way. UK’s downfall - no plan from day 1.

- I’ve been out of the loop because I’ve been working for a US senator here in the States for some time now. I get to meet and talk to some incredible influential people. I ask them about Brexit occasionally. Their response? The UK is big enough, and influential enough to get through it and come out and potentially do very well. That will horrify most of you. You all want poor little UK to fail miserably.
Why you all think its a tiny insignificant little island? Only worthy if part of your club? It’s not. To people outside Europe the UK carries huge weight. You all underestimate the power that London commands - only New York on a global scale competes. Who here knows what the capital of Netherlands is? ask anyone in America - no one knows or cares. But they all know London.
The UK’s reach stretches way beyond little Europe, it has a decent military force, and it has nuclear weapons. So claiming it is going to become an insignificant rock in the Atlantic is just pointless

- Countries are lining up wanting to do FTA’s with the UK. Might not be signed yet, but they will be. Having spoken to representatives of countries already holding discussions - of course the USA - they will want their cake, so we’ll see how that one pans out but they want a FTA, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, countries in Asia, plus others in S America etc, all these countries want to do deals. I hear rumors from representatives of certain EU states that want to do some trade deals, and their attitude right now is - Fuck Brussels because if we don’t do something, we’re gonna suffer badly. So we have to work something out.

- leads me on to my last point. What will happen short term. I think it will be messy as hell for the UK at first. Just figuring shit out. The uncertainty is driving people mad and extending this process won’t help anyone. The divisions in the UK politics is concerning for many stateside, as stable government creates feeling of a country in a good place and that’s not what we are seeing in the UK right now. So the sooner this gets resolved the better.

Talking to influential people here in the USA, the general feeling is - they should leave on no deal, suck up the immediate pain, then become a new global force again. I think that’s why I see so much anger and vitriol towards the UK on this forum. You all HATE the thought of someone leaving and becoming successful. That would just shit on the heads of your EU project and no one can allow that to happen right? :lol: :lol: :lol:

(Before anyone bitches that the USA is a political basket case - y’all are right. Shit show here too. Painful I’m telling ya. Hahahaha.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:10 pm

BCal Dc10 wrote:
- i think the UK government has played this one so badly. From day 1. I think the issue stems from the fact that they didn’t think the Leave campaign actually thought they would win. IMO they should have spent a year planning what Brexit should mean before triggering the Article 50 leave clause or whatever that is.
A genuine question for you folk - if one of your countries voted to leave, would y’all be so amazingly well organized, and your parliaments all in total agreement in the leaving process too? I doubt it. It’s a divisive issue, and I doubt any country could leave in a smooth orderly way. UK’s downfall - no plan from day 1.


Considering what the UK political landscape looks like at the moment, I think just about any country could have done a better job of leaving the EU. TM should have had a plan before triggering A50, but to be honest the HoC hasn't been very helpful.

BCal Dc10 wrote:
- I’ve been out of the loop because I’ve been working for a US senator here in the States for some time now. I get to meet and talk to some incredible influential people. I ask them about Brexit occasionally. Their response? The UK is big enough, and influential enough to get through it and come out and potentially do very well. That will horrify most of you. You all want poor little UK to fail miserably.


I can only speak for myself, but I don't think anyone here wants the UK to fail.
 
KLDC10
Posts: 1409
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:28 pm

BCal Dc10 wrote:
It’s been a while since I posted in this Brexit forum - I am fascinated by what’s going on from the other side of the Atlantic and wanted to share a few observations from an American perspective. I’ve had fun discussions with some of you in the past and they have been friendly polite discussions of the issues. - Plenty to say, so I hope y’all read it and come back with any sensible comments.

- i think the UK government has played this one so badly. From day 1. I think the issue stems from the fact that they didn’t think the Leave campaign actually thought they would win. IMO they should have spent a year planning what Brexit should mean before triggering the Article 50 leave clause or whatever that is.
A genuine question for you folk - if one of your countries voted to leave, would y’all be so amazingly well organized, and your parliaments all in total agreement in the leaving process too? I doubt it. It’s a divisive issue, and I doubt any country could leave in a smooth orderly way. UK’s downfall - no plan from day 1.

- I’ve been out of the loop because I’ve been working for a US senator here in the States for some time now. I get to meet and talk to some incredible influential people. I ask them about Brexit occasionally. Their response? The UK is big enough, and influential enough to get through it and come out and potentially do very well. That will horrify most of you. You all want poor little UK to fail miserably.
Why you all think its a tiny insignificant little island? Only worthy if part of your club? It’s not. To people outside Europe the UK carries huge weight. You all underestimate the power that London commands - only New York on a global scale competes. Who here knows what the capital of Netherlands is? ask anyone in America - no one knows or cares. But they all know London.
The UK’s reach stretches way beyond little Europe, it has a decent military force, and it has nuclear weapons. So claiming it is going to become an insignificant rock in the Atlantic is just pointless

- Countries are lining up wanting to do FTA’s with the UK. Might not be signed yet, but they will be. Having spoken to representatives of countries already holding discussions - of course the USA - they will want their cake, so we’ll see how that one pans out but they want a FTA, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, countries in Asia, plus others in S America etc, all these countries want to do deals. I hear rumors from representatives of certain EU states that want to do some trade deals, and their attitude right now is - Fuck Brussels because if we don’t do something, we’re gonna suffer badly. So we have to work something out.

- leads me on to my last point. What will happen short term. I think it will be messy as hell for the UK at first. Just figuring shit out. The uncertainty is driving people mad and extending this process won’t help anyone. The divisions in the UK politics is concerning for many stateside, as stable government creates feeling of a country in a good place and that’s not what we are seeing in the UK right now. So the sooner this gets resolved the better.

Talking to influential people here in the USA, the general feeling is - they should leave on no deal, suck up the immediate pain, then become a new global force again. I think that’s why I see so much anger and vitriol towards the UK on this forum. You all HATE the thought of someone leaving and becoming successful. That would just shit on the heads of your EU project and no one can allow that to happen right? :lol: :lol: :lol:

(Before anyone bitches that the USA is a political basket case - y’all are right. Shit show here too. Painful I’m telling ya. Hahahaha.


Excellent post and fantastic insight. Thank You. I'm going to sit back now and watch the jealous display of fireworks which is undoubtedly to follow...
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sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:10 pm

Why would it?
The UK can do whatever it wants, it's a sovereign nation after all, it just needs to accept the consequences of being alone and weakened.
It's the 'have our cake and eat it' attitude which is the problem really: the ATTITUDe needs to chance, nothing else, nothing less.

i'm sure the US is very willing to do business with them...
Yet on a 'let them have their cake and eat it' basis, however, I'm not so sure...
donald Trump isnt exactly the type of man to do even 'win-win' deals, let alone the ones the UK seems to seek with its closest trading partners: free lunches are only available for homeless and poor....
 
bennett123
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:12 pm

Not sure what terms will be offered by other Non EU states, but saw this item regarding the US.

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/americas-fo ... rade-deal/
 
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:46 pm

The Dutch are preparing for a hard brexit.

Project Fur: Dutch unveil big blue Brexit monster
The British government may still not have a clue what Brexit looks like, but the Dutch have a pretty good idea: it is a giant blue furry monster that sprawls annoyingly across your desk and stops you getting any work done.

The Netherlands foreign minister, Stef Blok, tweeted a picture on Thursday of himself with the enormous Muppet-like creature lying in front of him in a white T-shirt emblazoned with the word “Brexit” in big red letters.

“Have you checked what consequences Brexit has for you or your company?” asked Blok, his arms lifted in mock exasperation and a somewhat unconvincing look of frustration on his face. “Make sure Brexit doesn’t get – or lie – in your way.”

The Netherlands is among the best-prepared of all the EU27 for Brexit – particularly if the UK leaves the EU without a deal on 29 March – but the government has said it is still concerned too few Dutch businesses are fully aware of all it might entail.

As part of a €100m (£88m) Brexit preparation programme, it launched a major public information campaign last month, including newspaper ads and rhyming radio jingles, warning businesses they could not afford to be taken by surprise and would have to be creative in their approach to likely problems.



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -the-dutch

olle wrote:
seahawk wrote:
If you think the British could not do more damage, you were mistaken.

How about openly questioning the foundations of NATO as blackmail during Brexit.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 8ed01b21f4



The effect of Brexit and Trump will be the creation of the EU army -> exactly what UK and USA have been fighting to avoid the last 10 years. It will mean the creation of a EU based industry for arms -> just like USA and UK wanted to avoid.


Indeed. One of the themes that we often see on a.net (both in this forum and in the Civil Aviation) is a foundational hatred for the EU from the US and Russian members. The fundamental issue is that, through the EU, a united Europe is stronger. The EU puts up much more of a fight against other global powers like Russia, China and the US on diplomatic and trade issues than member nations would be able to individually. The US would prefer Europe to be as it was in the 1950s - economically weak and beholden to the will of the US. The creation of an EU army and resulting armaments industry is a good thing for Europe. Consistent with what you mention, the biggest detractors of the Eurofighter, Rafale, A400M, Astrium & Cassidian / Galileo etc are all eurosceptics. But that's probably just a coincidence, right? :lol:

Some people can't bear to see Europe acting independently.

bennett123 wrote:
Not sure what terms will be offered by other Non EU states, but saw this item regarding the US.

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/americas-fo ... rade-deal/


A fairly obvious example of why acting as a block is better for smaller nations. The EU has very high food safety standards. The Washington DC is run by lobbyists - from the article you linked:

The consultation closed last week and President Trump’s commerce secretary, Wilbur Ross, has already made it clear than any future agreement with London will stand or fall on Britain accepting the removal of EU food safety rules, such as the ban on imports of chlorinated chicken.


Already we see that the food/agricultural lobby is running the show as far as US trade negotiations are concerned. They can't bear for those pesky europeans to demand high standards for their food and to not give the US lobbyists a say in writing them. This is why I stopped supporting the TransPacificPartnership when the US joined. Once they were in, oh so much of the prior agreement was ripped up in favor of whatever the US lobbyists were wanting.

If you look in more detail at US food standards, it really is quite....fowl. ;)
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/chlorinated ... -imported/

I hope that the UK has the backbone to maintain decent food standards.
First to fly the 787-9
 
VSMUT
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:07 pm

BCal Dc10 wrote:
The UK’s reach stretches way beyond little Europe, it has a decent military force, and it has nuclear weapons. So claiming it is going to become an insignificant rock in the Atlantic is just pointless


Nuclear weapons and military don't win trade deals.


BCal Dc10 wrote:
- Countries are lining up wanting to do FTA’s with the UK.


Sure they are, but not in the UKs favour. They are lining up because they see the UK as a weak, isolated player that can be pushed into accepting poor one-sided deals. Like accepting US food standards.


BCal Dc10 wrote:
I hear rumors from representatives of certain EU states that want to do some trade deals, and their attitude right now is - Fuck Brussels because if we don’t do something, we’re gonna suffer badly. So we have to work something out.


You need to return to Europe. Wherever you are getting your "rumours" from, they are about as wrong as they could be. If anything has been certain in this miserable debacle, it's that the EU member states have all been united. But that obviously isn't something you noticed in the US.
 
Olddog
Topic Author
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:35 pm

When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:16 pm

BCal Dc10 wrote:
Talking to influential people here in the USA, the general feeling is - they should leave on no deal, suck up the immediate pain, then become a new global force again. I think that’s why I see so much anger and vitriol towards the UK on this forum.


I could go into each and every point of yours, because I respectfully disagree with them all, but no, instead I will ask you a simple question, a basic one you might find. The million dollar (or 80 billion a year question and rising) question is HOW? Nobody has been able to answer in concrete and verifiable terms, how this will benefit the UK economically. Even the Brexiteers say they might benefit in some 50 years time. Fine become a new global force, but how? Tell me how, please enlighten us, I am waiting for almost 3 years for this answer. Till now all the economic arguments have failed spectacularly.

BCal Dc10 wrote:
You all HATE the thought of someone leaving and becoming successful. That would just shit on the heads of your EU project and no one can allow that to happen right?


You spectacularly missing the point from me and many others I see posting, what actually is happening we all wish the best for Great Brittain, but we look at the evidence, we look at logic, we look at British politics and say: "Brexit isn't the best for Brittain, so please don't throw yourself off the cliff, we love Brittain to much to see it unnecessary suffering like that.
Last edited by Dutchy on Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:19 pm

BCal Dc10 wrote:
- i think the UK government has played this one so badly. From day 1. I think the issue stems from the fact that they didn’t think the Leave campaign actually thought they would win. IMO they should have spent a year planning what Brexit should mean before triggering the Article 50 leave clause or whatever that is.
A genuine question for you folk - if one of your countries voted to leave, would y’all be so amazingly well organized, and your parliaments all in total agreement in the leaving process too? I doubt it. It’s a divisive issue, and I doubt any country could leave in a smooth orderly way. UK’s downfall - no plan from day 1.


The UK doesn't do referendums routinely, neither does the US (talking about national referendums, like to amend the constitution), nor does France. In such a context, you need to really think about what you're doing before proposing a referendum. Cameron promised one to win the elections. That's already dubious. But then, he actually went with it, for purely political reasons, to appease members of his own party, without really thinking about how do defend his position, which he thought was strong enough, when in fact it was weak. It's a miracle the result was that close in the end, if Macron did the same thing in France, coming from a similar background (an "elite" member of society), Frexit would pass by a wide margin.

BCal Dc10 wrote:
- I’ve been out of the loop because I’ve been working for a US senator here in the States for some time now. I get to meet and talk to some incredible influential people. I ask them about Brexit occasionally. Their response? The UK is big enough, and influential enough to get through it and come out and potentially do very well. That will horrify most of you. You all want poor little UK to fail miserably.
Why you all think its a tiny insignificant little island? Only worthy if part of your club? It’s not. To people outside Europe the UK carries huge weight. You all underestimate the power that London commands - only New York on a global scale competes. Who here knows what the capital of Netherlands is? ask anyone in America - no one knows or cares. But they all know London.
The UK’s reach stretches way beyond little Europe, it has a decent military force, and it has nuclear weapons. So claiming it is going to become an insignificant rock in the Atlantic is just pointless

- Countries are lining up wanting to do FTA’s with the UK. Might not be signed yet, but they will be. Having spoken to representatives of countries already holding discussions - of course the USA - they will want their cake, so we’ll see how that one pans out but they want a FTA, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, countries in Asia, plus others in S America etc, all these countries want to do deals. I hear rumors from representatives of certain EU states that want to do some trade deals, and their attitude right now is - Fuck Brussels because if we don’t do something, we’re gonna suffer badly. So we have to work something out.


The only countries you cited nominally are former UK colonies, don't know if that's on purpose. The thing is, all these countries are WTO members with low tariffs as it is. There is nothing preventing the UK from trading with them, and of course such trade does happen. New free trade deals nowadays are icing on the cake, they're not game changing affairs. Especially when you consider trade of goods like cars, where the highest costs are in transportation, cars are mostly made close to their selling point, the UK can make a lot of them because they go to Europe, they're never going to make cars for the US or Australia.

Same for finance. London is a major financial place now, why would being outside the EU help it become bigger ? Hint, it wouldn't, that's why the City didn't want Brexit. The only advocates of Brexit that work in finance dream of the UK becoming some kind of fiscal paradise like Singapore, which isn't possible when you have to feed 66 million people who can't all work in finance.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:40 pm

Britain’s richest man and prominent Brexiteer Sir Jim Ratcliffe ‘to leave UK’ in tax plan

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/britains-riche ... -tax-plan/
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:46 pm

BCal Dc10 wrote:
It’s been a while since I posted in this Brexit forum - I am fascinated by what’s going on from the other side of the Atlantic and wanted to share a few observations from an American perspective. I’ve had fun discussions with some of you in the past and they have been friendly polite discussions of the issues. - Plenty to say, so I hope y’all read it and come back with any sensible comments.

- i think the UK government has played this one so badly. From day 1. I think the issue stems from the fact that they didn’t think the Leave campaign actually thought they would win. IMO they should have spent a year planning what Brexit should mean before triggering the Article 50 leave clause or whatever that is.
A genuine question for you folk - if one of your countries voted to leave, would y’all be so amazingly well organized, and your parliaments all in total agreement in the leaving process too? I doubt it. It’s a divisive issue, and I doubt any country could leave in a smooth orderly way. UK’s downfall - no plan from day 1.


At least in Germany the referendum would not fly, as the leave option would not be considered defined enough, as it covers everything from Norway++ to the hard Brexit.

But I think Brexit is good for the UK, as it is much closer in tradition and how they see the world to the USA, Canada and Australia than to the rest of Europe and once free to do as it pleases, the UK has every chance to become a global power again.
 
BCal Dc10
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:48 pm

KLDC10 wrote:

Excellent post and fantastic insight. Thank You. I'm going to sit back now and watch the jealous display of fireworks which is undoubtedly to follow...


Thanks KLDC10, appreciate that - I see it already but I’ll survive the comments. Just passing my opinion. Boarding a flight so I’ll be off line most of today, but enjoy the chat this afternoon!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:55 pm

BCal Dc10 wrote:
It’s been a while since I posted in this Brexit forum - I am fascinated by what’s going on from the other side of the Atlantic and wanted to share a few observations from an American perspective. I’ve had fun discussions with some of you in the past and they have been friendly polite discussions of the issues. - Plenty to say, so I hope y’all read it and come back with any sensible comments.

- i think the UK government has played this one so badly. From day 1. I think the issue stems from the fact that they didn’t think the Leave campaign actually thought they would win. IMO they should have spent a year planning what Brexit should mean before triggering the Article 50 leave clause or whatever that is.
A genuine question for you folk - if one of your countries voted to leave, would y’all be so amazingly well organized, and your parliaments all in total agreement in the leaving process too? I doubt it. It’s a divisive issue, and I doubt any country could leave in a smooth orderly way. UK’s downfall - no plan from day 1.


At least in Germany the referendum would not fly, as the leave option would not be considered defined enough, as it covers everything from Norway++ to the hard Brexit.

But I think Brexit is good for the UK, as it is much closer in tradition and how they see the world to the USA, Canada and Australia than to the rest of Europe and once free to do as it pleases, the UK has every chance to become a global power again.[/quote]

Dutchy wrote:
You spectacularly missing the point from me and many others I see posting, what actually is happening we all wish the best for Great Brittain, but we look at the evidence, we look at logic, we look at British politics and say: "Brexit isn't the best for Brittain, so please don't throw yourself off the cliff, we love Brittain to much to see it unnecessary suffering like that.


Most importantly the rest of the EU understands that the UK is free to go and there is nothing to stop them. If the hard Brexit is the thing to do, the negotiations could have been over in 30 minutes and preparations for the no deal Brexit could be running for 20 months.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:07 pm

seahawk wrote:
the UK has every chance to become a global power again.


how?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Olddog
Topic Author
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:14 pm

Becoming a US protectorate ?
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:43 pm

BCal Dc10 wrote:
- Countries are lining up wanting to do FTA’s with the UK. Might not be signed yet, but they will be. Having spoken to representatives of countries already holding discussions - of course the USA - they will want their cake, so we’ll see how that one pans out but they want a FTA, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, countries in Asia, plus others in S America etc, all these countries want to do deals.


If the Swiss trade deal is anything close to what the other countries get, then it would mean that the UK is much worse of.

BCal Dc10 wrote:
I hear rumors from representatives of certain EU states that want to do some trade deals, and their attitude right now is - Fuck Brussels because if we don’t do something, we’re gonna suffer badly. So we have to work something out.


Since when can EU countries conclude their own trade agreements? Or did the representatives you talked to forgot that tiny detail?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:00 pm

LJ wrote:
Since when can EU countries conclude their own trade agreements? Or did the representatives you talked to forgot that tiny detail?


Well, Trump didn't know either, Merkel needed to tell him six times before he understood..................
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:39 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
Excellent post and fantastic insight. Thank You. I'm going to sit back now and watch the jealous display of fireworks which is undoubtedly to follow...

Don’t hold your breath.....
 
VSMUT
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:41 pm

Dutchy wrote:
LJ wrote:
Since when can EU countries conclude their own trade agreements? Or did the representatives you talked to forgot that tiny detail?


Well, Trump didn't know either, Merkel needed to tell him six times before he understood..................


I think we found his high-level source and expert in trade deals... ;)
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:15 pm

Dutchy wrote:
LJ wrote:
Since when can EU countries conclude their own trade agreements? Or did the representatives you talked to forgot that tiny detail?


Well, Trump didn't know either, Merkel needed to tell him six times before he understood..................


Indeed, and he reportedly checked with President Macron later too, in order to see if this was really true....
after which he tried again with the Italian PM. :sarcastic:

Exactly what do people not understand about EU treaties?
They are a constitutional part of law in all of the EU memberstates, so countries can not just decide to ignore it.
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:19 pm

BCal Dc10 wrote:
A genuine question for you folk - if one of your countries voted to leave, would y’all be so amazingly well organized, and your parliaments all in total agreement in the leaving process too?


If you look at it from a Dutch perspective, such a decision would be made by at least 2-3 political parties as no political party will ever get more than 50% of the seats. In addition, it would need at least 50% of another chamber, which consists of semi-elected officials (they're elected through the Dutch provinces). As such any NEXIT would have broad support and would have to be thought through or else it will never pass both Chambers and thus no Dutch government official would be able to trigger article 50. Just for your information, the second chamber consists primarily of persons who think twice about approving a bill.

BCal Dc10 wrote:
I doubt it. It’s a divisive issue, and I doubt any country could leave in a smooth orderly way. UK’s downfall - no plan from day 1.


Not smooth, but much better than what's going on in the UK.

BCal Dc10 wrote:
That would just shit on the heads of your EU project and no one can allow that to happen right?


You do realise that the Brexit has actually united the EU? Thanks to the Brexit those countries trying to put a brake on some EU integration have one member less supporting their view.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:55 pm

BCal Dc10 wrote:
It’s been a while since I posted in this Brexit forum - I am fascinated by what’s going on from the other side of the Atlantic and wanted to share a few observations from an American perspective. I’ve had fun discussions with some of you in the past and they have been friendly polite discussions of the issues. - Plenty to say, so I hope y’all read it and come back with any sensible comments.

- i think the UK government has played this one so badly. From day 1. I think the issue stems from the fact that they didn’t think the Leave campaign actually thought they would win. IMO they should have spent a year planning what Brexit should mean before triggering the Article 50 leave clause or whatever that is.
A genuine question for you folk - if one of your countries voted to leave, would y’all be so amazingly well organized, and your parliaments all in total agreement in the leaving process too? I doubt it. It’s a divisive issue, and I doubt any country could leave in a smooth orderly way. UK’s downfall - no plan from day 1.

- I’ve been out of the loop because I’ve been working for a US senator here in the States for some time now. I get to meet and talk to some incredible influential people. I ask them about Brexit occasionally. Their response? The UK is big enough, and influential enough to get through it and come out and potentially do very well. That will horrify most of you. You all want poor little UK to fail miserably.
Why you all think its a tiny insignificant little island? Only worthy if part of your club? It’s not. To people outside Europe the UK carries huge weight. You all underestimate the power that London commands - only New York on a global scale competes. Who here knows what the capital of Netherlands is? ask anyone in America - no one knows or cares. But they all know London.
The UK’s reach stretches way beyond little Europe, it has a decent military force, and it has nuclear weapons. So claiming it is going to become an insignificant rock in the Atlantic is just pointless

- Countries are lining up wanting to do FTA’s with the UK. Might not be signed yet, but they will be. Having spoken to representatives of countries already holding discussions - of course the USA - they will want their cake, so we’ll see how that one pans out but they want a FTA, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, countries in Asia, plus others in S America etc, all these countries want to do deals. I hear rumors from representatives of certain EU states that want to do some trade deals, and their attitude right now is - Fuck Brussels because if we don’t do something, we’re gonna suffer badly. So we have to work something out.

- leads me on to my last point. What will happen short term. I think it will be messy as hell for the UK at first. Just figuring shit out. The uncertainty is driving people mad and extending this process won’t help anyone. The divisions in the UK politics is concerning for many stateside, as stable government creates feeling of a country in a good place and that’s not what we are seeing in the UK right now. So the sooner this gets resolved the better.

Talking to influential people here in the USA, the general feeling is - they should leave on no deal, suck up the immediate pain, then become a new global force again. I think that’s why I see so much anger and vitriol towards the UK on this forum. You all HATE the thought of someone leaving and becoming successful. That would just shit on the heads of your EU project and no one can allow that to happen right? :lol: :lol: :lol:

(Before anyone bitches that the USA is a political basket case - y’all are right. Shit show here too. Painful I’m telling ya. Hahahaha.



Good post, good to get perspective from other countries that do not have a vested interest in the outcome, I.e not a member of the EU

:)
 
jcancel
Posts: 133
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:45 am

Americans wanting the power of the EU reduced or wanting American products not meeting EU standards in UK markets have vested interests.

Americans who advocated for Brexit who were not in the Roger Stone/Paul Manafort/Mercer territory are unlikely to face consequences. I am a different sort of American, one who would have advantages from Brexit (availability of EU jobs that would have otherwise went to Brits) but one who disdains Brexit anyway.

I'm hoping Mueller reveals more dirt on the Brexit campaign.
In the meantime if Brexit has serious consequences for the UK, it must be clear that the people who didnt want Brexit dont equally deserve the fallout compared to those that did 2016 to 2019.

A101 wrote:
BCal Dc10 wrote:
It’s been a while since I posted in this Brexit forum - I am fascinated by what’s going on from the other side of the Atlantic and wanted to share a few observations from an American perspective. I’ve had fun discussions with some of you in the past and they have been friendly polite discussions of the issues. - Plenty to say, so I hope y’all read it and come back with any sensible comments.

- i think the UK government has played this one so badly. From day 1. I think the issue stems from the fact that they didn’t think the Leave campaign actually thought they would win. IMO they should have spent a year planning what Brexit should mean before triggering the Article 50 leave clause or whatever that is.
A genuine question for you folk - if one of your countries voted to leave, would y’all be so amazingly well organized, and your parliaments all in total agreement in the leaving process too? I doubt it. It’s a divisive issue, and I doubt any country could leave in a smooth orderly way. UK’s downfall - no plan from day 1.

- I’ve been out of the loop because I’ve been working for a US senator here in the States for some time now. I get to meet and talk to some incredible influential people. I ask them about Brexit occasionally. Their response? The UK is big enough, and influential enough to get through it and come out and potentially do very well. That will horrify most of you. You all want poor little UK to fail miserably.
Why you all think its a tiny insignificant little island? Only worthy if part of your club? It’s not. To people outside Europe the UK carries huge weight. You all underestimate the power that London commands - only New York on a global scale competes. Who here knows what the capital of Netherlands is? ask anyone in America - no one knows or cares. But they all know London.
The UK’s reach stretches way beyond little Europe, it has a decent military force, and it has nuclear weapons. So claiming it is going to become an insignificant rock in the Atlantic is just pointless

- Countries are lining up wanting to do FTA’s with the UK. Might not be signed yet, but they will be. Having spoken to representatives of countries already holding discussions - of course the USA - they will want their cake, so we’ll see how that one pans out but they want a FTA, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, countries in Asia, plus others in S America etc, all these countries want to do deals. I hear rumors from representatives of certain EU states that want to do some trade deals, and their attitude right now is - Fuck Brussels because if we don’t do something, we’re gonna suffer badly. So we have to work something out.

- leads me on to my last point. What will happen short term. I think it will be messy as hell for the UK at first. Just figuring shit out. The uncertainty is driving people mad and extending this process won’t help anyone. The divisions in the UK politics is concerning for many stateside, as stable government creates feeling of a country in a good place and that’s not what we are seeing in the UK right now. So the sooner this gets resolved the better.

Talking to influential people here in the USA, the general feeling is - they should leave on no deal, suck up the immediate pain, then become a new global force again. I think that’s why I see so much anger and vitriol towards the UK on this forum. You all HATE the thought of someone leaving and becoming successful. That would just shit on the heads of your EU project and no one can allow that to happen right? :lol: :lol: :lol:

(Before anyone bitches that the USA is a political basket case - y’all are right. Shit show here too. Painful I’m telling ya. Hahahaha.



Good post, good to get perspective from other countries that do not have a vested interest in the outcome, I.e not a member of the EU

:)
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:50 am

Dutchy wrote:
seahawk wrote:
the UK has every chance to become a global power again.


how?

They will surely have a plan, won´t they?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:48 am

A101 wrote:
BCal Dc10 wrote:
It’s been a while since I posted in this Brexit forum - I am fascinated by what’s going on from the other side of the Atlantic and wanted to share a few observations from an American perspective. I’ve had fun discussions with some of you in the past and they have been friendly polite discussions of the issues. - Plenty to say, so I hope y’all read it and come back with any sensible comments.

- i think the UK government has played this one so badly. From day 1. I think the issue stems from the fact that they didn’t think the Leave campaign actually thought they would win. IMO they should have spent a year planning what Brexit should mean before triggering the Article 50 leave clause or whatever that is.
A genuine question for you folk - if one of your countries voted to leave, would y’all be so amazingly well organized, and your parliaments all in total agreement in the leaving process too? I doubt it. It’s a divisive issue, and I doubt any country could leave in a smooth orderly way. UK’s downfall - no plan from day 1.

- I’ve been out of the loop because I’ve been working for a US senator here in the States for some time now. I get to meet and talk to some incredible influential people. I ask them about Brexit occasionally. Their response? The UK is big enough, and influential enough to get through it and come out and potentially do very well. That will horrify most of you. You all want poor little UK to fail miserably.
Why you all think its a tiny insignificant little island? Only worthy if part of your club? It’s not. To people outside Europe the UK carries huge weight. You all underestimate the power that London commands - only New York on a global scale competes. Who here knows what the capital of Netherlands is? ask anyone in America - no one knows or cares. But they all know London.
The UK’s reach stretches way beyond little Europe, it has a decent military force, and it has nuclear weapons. So claiming it is going to become an insignificant rock in the Atlantic is just pointless

- Countries are lining up wanting to do FTA’s with the UK. Might not be signed yet, but they will be. Having spoken to representatives of countries already holding discussions - of course the USA - they will want their cake, so we’ll see how that one pans out but they want a FTA, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, countries in Asia, plus others in S America etc, all these countries want to do deals. I hear rumors from representatives of certain EU states that want to do some trade deals, and their attitude right now is - Fuck Brussels because if we don’t do something, we’re gonna suffer badly. So we have to work something out.

- leads me on to my last point. What will happen short term. I think it will be messy as hell for the UK at first. Just figuring shit out. The uncertainty is driving people mad and extending this process won’t help anyone. The divisions in the UK politics is concerning for many stateside, as stable government creates feeling of a country in a good place and that’s not what we are seeing in the UK right now. So the sooner this gets resolved the better.

Talking to influential people here in the USA, the general feeling is - they should leave on no deal, suck up the immediate pain, then become a new global force again. I think that’s why I see so much anger and vitriol towards the UK on this forum. You all HATE the thought of someone leaving and becoming successful. That would just shit on the heads of your EU project and no one can allow that to happen right? :lol: :lol: :lol:

(Before anyone bitches that the USA is a political basket case - y’all are right. Shit show here too. Painful I’m telling ya. Hahahaha.



Good post, good to get perspective from other countries that do not have a vested interest in the outcome, I.e not a member of the EU

:)


But the US does have a vested interest. Just not the one you want to hear.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:50 am

seahawk wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
seahawk wrote:
the UK has every chance to become a global power again.


how?

They will surely have a plan, won´t they?



It is your statement, so I am guessing you are in the known, so please enlighten us with your wisdom.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10872
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:53 am

VSMUT wrote:
BCal Dc10 wrote:
- Countries are lining up wanting to do FTA’s with the UK.


Sure they are, but not in the UKs favour. They are lining up because they see the UK as a weak, isolated player that can be pushed into accepting poor one-sided deals. Like accepting US food standards.


Not just accepting the standards, also giving up the "safety first" principle when it comes to those standards.

But yeah, it is a given that countries will be lining up to have an FTA with the UK. When in the history of trade did anyone ever get the chance to negotiate a trade deal with someone in such a weak negotiating position?

best regards
Thomas
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