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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:03 am

Dutchy wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

how?

They will surely have a plan, won´t they?


It is your statement, so I am guessing you are in the known, so please enlighten us with your wisdom.


I said they have every chance, not that they will succeed. But according to the Brexit supporters, the UK only needs to be free of the EU and everything will work out.

Trade deals will come (although I would like to see how they sign deals with the USA and Australia that are favourable for British farmers and food production..) and the Empire will rise again or something.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:39 am

LJ wrote:
Not smooth, but much better than what's going on in the UK.


You won't know until you try it! :wink2:
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:56 am

Seems like industry leaders have enough of the drama and more and more are speaking out openly against a no-deal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agr ... -1.3797662
 
jcancel
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:59 am

seahawk wrote:
Seems like industry leaders have enough of the drama and more and more are speaking out openly against a no-deal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agr ... -1.3797662


Good. And the pro Brexit MPs and media figures should be the ones paying for Brexit.

They did this. They should lose their newspapers, lose their MP seats, lose their money.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:19 pm

It has been brought up that one of many issues post-Brexit will be trade and other business between the USA and the UK.

There have been some proposals by USA businesses that the UK no longer has to follow the EU standards as to food and manufactured goods and accept USA goods that don't. I don't think citizens of the UK will want lower standards on such goods.

The value/exchange rate of the Pound to the USD will likely drop to levels we haven't seen since the mid-1980's (and likely drop to record lows as to the Euro). That will make UK Pound based goods and services cheaper, tourists will be able to take advantage of it but everything including air travel, oil, goods and services imported into the UK will skyrocket in prices, hurting everyone.

The insurance and reinsurance business, with the UK/London one of the biggest markets for it in the world and USA based customers a major part of their business, will see a major shift to the EU countries or their tax dodging territories from London and the UK's tax dodging territories. There could be disruptions in the placing of new and renewals of insurance and reinsurance, likely job losses.

Business and tourism travel will likely drop off as the Brexit date comes up and even more if a hard one with no new agreements in place or reversal and fears of mass and violent protests develop as 10's of 1000's of jobs disappear or suspended.

Companies in the UK or with major operations in it and doing significant business in the USA could see serious disruptions from Brexit. The USA market is critical major or top customers for companies like Jaguar-Land Rover and BMW (Mini), especially as key product is made in the UK. They could face cut-offs of components from the EU and other countries in turn shutting down production with workers losing their jobs for who knows how long. No production means nothing to sell in the USA and elsewhere, parts may be difficult to obtain so people can't get their cars fixed. That would have a knock on affect on USA jobs including component suppliers, corporate offices (like JLR's USA office not far from me) and dealerships.

The Brexit is a potholed road to perdition that will affect the USA too.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:46 pm

ltbewr wrote:
There have been some proposals by USA businesses that the UK no longer has to follow the EU standards as to food and manufactured goods and accept USA goods that don't. I don't think citizens of the UK will want lower standards on such goods.


Proposals by the US Govenment as well. NHS, food business all up for grabs. When it comes to manufactured goods, things like electricals are similar but others not.

I fear a lot of shopper's won't care where their food comes from rather they care about the cost of it. If it's lower quality / produced elsewhere many won't care or can't affford to care. When you have obesity levels like those in the UK it shows a great deal of people aren't able to make the right choices for themselves.

Those can can afford it, or understand how important quality produce is and how it is produced will care and won't accept it. I'm in the latter camp, I believe strongly in food being the best quality possible with the highest welfare standards and I will pay for it. I also know the impact a hard brexit/ trade on WTO will have on UK farming and produce.. I don't want it and the UK doesn't need it.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:01 pm

If the UK accepts that then it would make a trade deal with the EU that much more complicated, because now we'd need assurances none of that crappy food enters the EU.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:19 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
There have been some proposals by USA businesses that the UK no longer has to follow the EU standards as to food and manufactured goods and accept USA goods that don't. I don't think citizens of the UK will want lower standards on such goods.


Proposals by the US Govenment as well. NHS.


especially concerning for the NHS that they want changes to the way medication is bought.

I remember when we compared WarR1s wife asthma spray, that was... ... phew... ~100 times more expensive then here?
They want to increase shareholder value in the UK too, who cares about stake holders...

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:28 pm

Richard28 wrote:
I'll leave this here....

Image


No doubt deceitful adverts making false promises like these will feature heavily in the inevitable Brexit Enquiry when it happens.



update:

Hot on the heels of bad news from BMI this week, Honda are set to announce the closure of their Swindon plant from 2022

https://news.sky.com/story/honda-to-stu ... y-11641154

54.7% of people in Swindon in 2016 were convinced by the Leave campaign this was going to happen. Perhaps its time to check they still want this brexit.... it's not turning out as promised....

scbriml wrote:
#DespiteBrexit Oh, wait...


quite.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:53 pm

Wow.

So after NISSAN halting any further investments in the UK,
And after FORD as good as telling they are now beyond just the planning phase of production cutbacks in the UK,
Now HONDA is set to announce it will close an entire production site because of Brexit.

No real surprise, given the hight of the import duties the UK automotive industry faces after a hard Brexit,
Combined with the expected delays their 'just-in-time' production chains face in case of any sort of a Brexit really.

Brexit will make the UK completely uncompetitive for ANY international industrial activity who's export is aimed predominantly towards the European ot even global markets, exactly as outgoing AIRBUS' CEO Tom Enders has explicitly warned too.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/airb ... 47401.html
"Don't take our presence in the UK for granted in future"
If the economics to manufacture in and export from the UK just aren't there any longer (and they won't be no more) there will be consequences, and they are starting to manifest themselves already in anticipation now even, regardless the extra costs and local PR fall out.

Nothing to do with Europeans or Japanese or whoever wanting to punish Britain for trying to go it alone: just simple maths and economics, really.
If you shoot your own foot off, you're going to fall over, simple as that.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:15 pm

Mercedes F1 is very worried about Brexit consequences.

“But I can see very much if a ‘no deal’ Brexit would happen like [has] been discussed I think we would have a major impact in terms of our operation going to the races and getting our cars developed and ready. So that is a nightmare scenario that I don’t want to even envisage.”

The majority of F1 teams are based in the UK but Mercedes’ chief rival Ferrari is not. “Ferrari in Italy, Sauber [now Alfa Romeo] in Switzerland, they would have a massive advantage over every UK-based team,” added Wolff.

“I think that what we’re seeing at least Formula 1 feels like [we’re] very much exposed to the decisions that could be made on a political level. And it is a risk for our people and their risk for the industry.”

Mercedes’ UK-based F1 team employs people from 26 different nationalities, said Wolff. A key issue at stake in the debate over the terms of Brexit is the ease with which EU nationals will be able to pass in and out of the UK.

Wolff warned the consequences for Britain’s F1 industry could be serious if a ‘no-deal’ Brexit deal goes ahead.

“Brexit is a major concern for us and should be a major concern for all of us that live in the UK and operate out of the UK,” said Wolff. “We are Formula 1 teams that travel to races and tests at least 21 times a year. We are moving in and out of the UK, our people move in and out of the UK, the way we are getting parts and services is just-in-time at the last minute into the UK and any major disruption in borders or with taxes would massively damage the Formula One industry in the UK.


https://www.racefans.net/2019/02/18/nig ... age-wolff/

He has a point - Formula One works on a just in time principle for most of the teams. Whilst cars and equipment are airfreight around the planet when going to the Asian and North American races, they nearly always trucked back to the F1 team's homebases (nearly entirely around Oxfordshire) between race weekends so that the cars can be stripped down and checked for damage/defects. This won't work if they spend three days waiting at the border for customs checks. Sauber (Hinwil, Switzerland), Ferrari (Maranello, Italy) and Toro Rosso (Faenza, Italy) won't be affected by this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLVFa8YRfM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkmNY74Ohs0

seahawk wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
seahawk wrote:
the UK has every chance to become a global power again.


how?

They will surely have a plan, won´t they?


I like this game. :rotfl:

seahawk wrote:
Trade deals will come (although I would like to see how they sign deals with the USA and Australia that are favourable for British farmers and food production..) and the Empire will rise again or something.

Don't forget; they've also got to 'believe in Britain' a little bit harder. :lol:

Richard28 wrote:
Hot on the heels of bad news from BMI this week, Honda are set to announce the closure of their Swindon plant from 2022

https://news.sky.com/story/honda-to-stu ... y-11641154

54.7% of people in Swindon in 2016 were convinced by the Leave campaign this was going to happen. Perhaps its time to check they still want this brexit.... it's not turning out as promised....


But but project fear !

Seriously though, we talk about shooting yourself in the foot....I think that was doing so with a torpedo. How do our enlightened friends across the Atlantic account for this outcome?

I just hope that Honda will open a new factory somewhere in Northern France to make up for some of the capacity of Honda Swindon.
Last edited by zkojq on Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
First to fly the 787-9
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:32 pm

With the EU-JAPAN FTA up and running, it's cheaper to import to Europe from Japan than it will soon be to do so from accross the Channel.
You can expect A LOT of Japanese manufacturing now done in the UK to move either back to Japan, or across the North Sea to the continent: both mean tariff free trade within the biggest Free Trade Area of the world, the latter also with very short transportation times to and within Europe.
Global Britain increasingly sits in the middle of a vast ocean of nothingness, and it hasn't even left the EU yet.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:34 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
With the EU-JAPAN FTA up and running, it's cheaper to import to Europe from Japan than it will soon be to do so from accross the Channel.
You can expect A LOT of Japanese manufacturing now done in the UK to move either back to Japan, or across the North Sea to the continent: both mean tariff free trade within the biggest Free Trade Area of the world, the latter also with very short transportation times to and within Europe.
Global Britain increasingly sits in the middle of a vast ocean of nothingness, and it hasn't even left the EU yet.


The Brexiteers are blaming the Honda news on the EU already. For signing the Japan free trade deal (which they said they'd have done anyway).
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:47 pm

Meanwhile, the UK has sent high handed lettres to Japan which have reportedly been received rather badly by Tokyo, because in it Britain implicitly accused Japan of not willing to be flexible and swift in just rolling over the EU-Japan FTA in view of Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... eremy-hunt

In reply, Japan has made it clear in public (!) it will seek to extract much tougher concessions from the UK than it only secured from the EU...

British diplomacy at it's best!
Not having done a single FTA in half a century, they've singled out Japan as the first country to try to conclude business with once out, and already they make all the faux-pas over there by being arrogant with them!? Japanese are notoriously fond of diplomatic courtesy and being treated with the same respect as they extend to others.
ROTFL.

Everything is going smoothly, with all those countries begging to sign those much better and all new British trade deals ligned up for 1 second after midnight on Brexit day, isnt it, Dr Fox?

Project FANTASY.
Last edited by sabenapilot on Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:50 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Wow.

So after NISSAN halting any further investments in the UK,
And after FORD as good as telling they are now beyond just the planning phase of production cutbacks in the UK,
Now HONDA is set to announce it will close an entire production site because of Brexit.

No real surprise, given the hight of the import duties the UK automotive industry faces after a hard Brexit,
Combined with the expected delays their 'just-in-time' production chains face in case of any sort of a Brexit really.

Brexit will make the UK completely uncompetitive for ANY international industrial activity who's export is aimed predominantly towards the European ot even global markets, exactly as outgoing AIRBUS' CEO Tom Enders has explicitly warned too.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/airb ... 47401.html
"Don't take our presence in the UK for granted in future"
If the economics to manufacture in and export from the UK just aren't there any longer (and they won't be no more) there will be consequences, and they are starting to manifest themselves already in anticipation now even, regardless the extra costs and local PR fall out.

Nothing to do with Europeans or Japanese or whoever wanting to punish Britain for trying to go it alone: just simple maths and economics, really.
If you shoot your own foot off, you're going to fall over, simple as that.


And wait until the gloves come off, because without a deal with the EU, the UK becomes a third party and it becomes legal to use EU money to lure industries from the UK to the EU. You can use EU money to prepare the property and you can even grant tax breaks for some time to compensate the costs of moving.

"Move your production to the city of XXXXX in one of industrial heart lands of the biggest economy in the EU. Enjoy the benefits of being in the EU..... and of a stable government. Land areas for business development are available, including some with direct access to train lines or next to the commercial harbour which connects your business directly to the global port of Amsterdam and to other economic centres in XXXX and beyond though inland waterways.
2 International airports are within a 60 minutes drive by car. ....
Highly skilled workforce is available...
The southern part of the city allow your leading employees to enjoy the beautiful Ruhr river and its surrondings..."

Every economic area in Germany is working on similar texts and incentives, I am sure it will be done in the whole EU.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:54 pm

In terms of economic power, UK standing alone will rank behind EU, US, China, Japan, Korea, India, Taiwan (Canada and Mexico with the US) but along with Brazil, Indonesia, Australia. This is not what the Brexiters had in mind. Corrections are invited, but I think my 'numbers' are close to being right. UK will be a third tier entity.

And a big question will be science and technology. Will Cambridge and Oxford be able to afford remaining first tier status?
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:07 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
With the EU-JAPAN FTA up and running, it's cheaper to import to Europe from Japan than it will soon be to do so from accross the Channel.
You can expect A LOT of Japanese manufacturing now done in the UK to move either back to Japan, or across the North Sea to the continent: both mean tariff free trade within the biggest Free Trade Area of the world, the latter also with very short transportation times to and within Europe.
Global Britain increasingly sits in the middle of a vast ocean of nothingness, and it hasn't even left the EU yet.


The Brexiteers are blaming the Honda news on the EU already. For signing the Japan free trade deal (which they said they'd have done anyway).


The seven lines of defence of a leaver:
stage one - Brexit is going to be great,
stage two - it will be just fine, don't worry; you should just believe a bit more in it,
stage three - it was always known it would will be tough for a while but we will get through and florish again,
stage four - things are going a bit less well than they should right now but it's nothing to do with Brexit,
stage five - ok, things are going badly right now because of Brexit but it's all the fault of the remainers who frustrate our plans,
stage six - yes, things are going very badly sadly, but it's all just the fault of the EU really,
stage seven - it's a complete devastation, but remember the war.

So we're now down to stage 5, sometimes 6 even if we read the comments in the tabloids.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:30 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
stage six - yes, things are going very badly sadly, but it's all just the fault of the EU really.


Back to the roots one might say....

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:35 pm

Dutchy wrote:


But the US does have a vested interest. Just not the one you want to hear.


Well true, that every country wants to trade with each other, but the gist of the post is not every country wants to join the EU, what next one world government?
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:41 pm

.... Justin Tomlinson, the local Conservative MP who personally backed Brexit has described Honda's decision as being “due to global trends and not Brexit”.....

He has also said "all European market production will consolidate in Japan in 2021" ... ignoring the fact that currently all of Honda's European car production is in the UK.....

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/new ... r-swindon/

Talk about not taking personal responsibility for his actions, or considering how to try and help his constituents by being honest and reflecting on past decisions and what can now be done to rectify them.

It's like Brexiters are the Orchestra on board the Titanic.. still maintaining that the ship is unsinkable and there are no icebergs in this part of the Atlantic... as the ship gently sinks.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:48 pm

It's because the MP is an optimist, Richard and so he is still only at stage 4 of the 7 stages...
He'll come down from his cloud with his constituents and the rest of the country soon enough, don't you worry. ;)
Honda wont be the last one ... more bad news to follow soon. ☹
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:52 pm

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:


But the US does have a vested interest. Just not the one you want to hear.


Well true, that every country wants to trade with each other, but the gist of the post is not every country wants to join the EU, what next one world government?


That's fine, and nor should they.

It's not just that the US wants to trade with the UK, it's what would happen to the UK if it were to agree to the terms already laid out. Anyone with an ounce of sense would reject the US requirements without question. The NHS will not be open to foreign competition / ownership, medicine costs will not be increased, and UK farming and food standards will not be lowered. Any agreement with a remote hint of either of these things should be rejected.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:32 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
The seven lines of defence of a leaver:
stage one - Brexit is going to be great,
stage two - it will be just fine, don't worry; you should just believe a bit more in it,
stage three - it was always known it would will be tough for a while but we will get through and florish again,
stage four - things are going a bit less well than they should right now but it's nothing to do with Brexit,
stage five - ok, things are going badly right now because of Brexit but it's all the fault of the remainers who frustrate our plans,
stage six - yes, things are going very badly sadly, but it's all just the fault of the EU really,
stage seven - it's a complete devastation, but remember the war.

So we're now down to stage 5, sometimes 6 even if we read the comments in the tabloids.


There are some on stage 7 as well.
 
WIederling
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:38 pm

seahawk wrote:
Every economic area in Germany is working on similar texts and incentives, I am sure it will be done in the whole EU.


HOT already: A campaign to attract polish health workers currently residing and working in the UK to move and work in Germany.
https://www.bibliomed-pflege.de/alle-news/detailansicht/37453-so-will-das-ukd-pflegende-nach-deutschland-locken/?utm_source=CleverReach&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=BibPflege_20190212&utm_content=Mailing_11234292
Murphy is an optimist
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:16 pm

zkojq wrote:
I just hope that Honda will open a new factory somewhere in Northern France to make up for some of the capacity of Honda Swindon.


I’d be surprised if Honda open a replacement factory in the EU. Given the amount of plants they have in Japan combined with the FTA, there probably isn’t much to be gained even if 90% of Swindon’s output is exported.

This is undoubtedly a blow for UK manufacturing if true. I do however have two questions arising from this: -

1) How much spare capacity does Honda’s plants in Japan have at present?
2) Would this have happened whether Brexit happened or not?
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:47 pm

Richard28 wrote:
.... Justin Tomlinson, the local Conservative MP who personally backed Brexit has described Honda's decision as being “due to global trends and not Brexit”.....

He has also said "all European market production will consolidate in Japan in 2021" ... ignoring the fact that currently all of Honda's European car production is in the UK.....

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/new ... r-swindon/

Talk about not taking personal responsibility for his actions, or considering how to try and help his constituents by being honest and reflecting on past decisions and what can now be done to rectify them.

It's like Brexiters are the Orchestra on board the Titanic.. still maintaining that the ship is unsinkable and there are no icebergs in this part of the Atlantic... as the ship gently sinks.


Turkey factory is closing too i believe, is that because of brexit?
223 319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 764 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 MD83 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

Brexit - It’s time for global Britain.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:40 pm

Maybe US politicians are cheering for Brexit because the want the EU to fail miserably, not because they care about the UK?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ean-states
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:16 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
2) Would this have happened whether Brexit happened or not?


I think we can argue that it would have happened anyway, though the upcoming Brexit may have speeded things up. In essence, it doesn't make sense to build cars outside the EU with the current Japan - EU FTA. There's probably still some benefit to produce the cars in the EU (smaller lead times to customer), but the UK factories may have closed anyway. However, we don't know and will never know.

Arion640 wrote:
Turkey factory is closing too i believe, is that because of brexit?


Turkey is also a third country and are in the same boat as the UK after March 29th.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:16 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Turkey factory is closing too i believe, is that because of brexit?


All I could find was a quote from a British MP in a local newpaper:

https://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/ ... e-mps-say/

Is there any other evidence for Honda to pull everything to Japan? Seems to me the only source is: Justin Tomlinson and Robert Buckland.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:27 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
.... Justin Tomlinson, the local Conservative MP who personally backed Brexit has described Honda's decision as being “due to global trends and not Brexit”.....

He has also said "all European market production will consolidate in Japan in 2021" ... ignoring the fact that currently all of Honda's European car production is in the UK.....

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/new ... r-swindon/

Talk about not taking personal responsibility for his actions, or considering how to try and help his constituents by being honest and reflecting on past decisions and what can now be done to rectify them.

It's like Brexiters are the Orchestra on board the Titanic.. still maintaining that the ship is unsinkable and there are no icebergs in this part of the Atlantic... as the ship gently sinks.


Turkey factory is closing too i believe, is that because of brexit?


HONDA is restructuring in order to make their products closest to their main markets and export them globally from where it makes most sense.
Their weakest, least useful sites are thus logically the first to be axed.
From all of their options globally, it's interesting to see how their UK site quietly ended up on their shortlist and if reports are confirmed tomorrow, will actually be chosen, despite it being heralded as a model assembly plant up until last summer even.
But as said, with Britain risking to be left out of every global free trading zone, customs union or even without a single FTA of its own, it has quickly become the weakest link amongst Honda's global production sites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_H ... bly_plants

And that won't just be the case at honda, I'm afraid: expect British plants and British assembly lines to easily gain an undesirable spot on shortlists for restructuring at multinationals each and every time they go through this. Airbus CEO basically shared this general wisdom with the British public too. Thanks to Brexit.

Maybe the UK can nationalize the assembly line and restart a British car manufacturer of its own again?
After all, that was the serious proposal from a Conservative MP to Tom Enders' warning not to take Airbus presence in the UK for granted.
Wonder what excuses and crackpot solutions from Brexiteers we will hear tomorrow when the news is announced!?
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:31 pm

LJ wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
2) Would this have happened whether Brexit happened or not?


I think we can argue that it would have happened anyway, though the upcoming Brexit may have speeded things up. In essence, it doesn't make sense to build cars outside the EU with the current Japan - EU FTA. There's probably still some benefit to produce the cars in the EU (smaller lead times to customer), but the UK factories may have closed anyway. However, we don't know and will never know.

Arion640 wrote:
Turkey factory is closing too i believe, is that because of brexit?


Turkey is also a third country and are in the same boat as the UK after March 29th.


But turkey are outside of the EU, they are already in the boat. As much as i know you want to blame it on brexit, if it turns out to be true, it’s quite hard to justify.
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Brexit - It’s time for global Britain.
 
smallvoyageur
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:34 pm

A nice piece of a "Jo Moore" moment from the government, this time from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra). Revealing that in a no deal Brexit, we can't sell the more expensive and higher demanded organic food into the EU as the organic certifications cannot be accepted.

Last edited by smallvoyageur on Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:35 pm

Turkey is in the customs union: the FTA between the EU and Japan applies to them as well...

You can thus argue its because of the FTA between the EU and Japan that it no longer makes sense for Honda not to produce in Japan.
(a Brexiteer's claim to put the blame entirely on the EU and their FTA with Japan, rather than Brexit itself).
Or you can argue it's proof that being out of the EU won't help nor protect Britain against any of all this, because while Britain is gone, the EU very much is still there.
(a remainers argument to stay in and influence the EU and its FTAs, rather than having to just undergo it all like the UK demonstratively has to do now).
Last edited by sabenapilot on Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:35 pm

And we have only tomlinson'word for that. We will see what Honda will say really.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:49 am

Image

How long until Peugeot-Citroen closes down Vauxhall's production facilities? IMO they never should have bought Opel-Vauxhall anyway.
First to fly the 787-9
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:08 am

Olddog wrote:
And we have only tomlinson'word for that. We will see what Honda will say really.


The official word is production adjustment in Turkey, which makes sense as they produced the Civic Sedan for the EU market.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/18/busi ... honda.html
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:10 am

LJ wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
2) Would this have happened whether Brexit happened or not?


I think we can argue that it would have happened anyway, though the upcoming Brexit may have speeded things up. In essence, it doesn't make sense to build cars outside the EU with the current Japan - EU FTA. There's probably still some benefit to produce the cars in the EU (smaller lead times to customer), but the UK factories may have closed anyway. However, we don't know and will never know.


Japan is a crazy expensive country. It's not at all obvious to me that making cars there is cheaper than in the EU.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:15 am

 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:17 am

Aesma wrote:
LJ wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
2) Would this have happened whether Brexit happened or not?


I think we can argue that it would have happened anyway, though the upcoming Brexit may have speeded things up. In essence, it doesn't make sense to build cars outside the EU with the current Japan - EU FTA. There's probably still some benefit to produce the cars in the EU (smaller lead times to customer), but the UK factories may have closed anyway. However, we don't know and will never know.


Japan is a crazy expensive country. It's not at all obvious to me that making cars there is cheaper than in the EU.


To be honest, I didn't find Japan expensive, even Tokyo...

And compared to the UK, not so much....

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c ... ed+Kingdom

Best regards
Thomas
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Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:24 am

Anyway, Honda closure is a good news for UK democracy. As someone put it:
Swindon voted Leave and Honda has honored their request !
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:31 am

Announced today. Not a brexit related issue by Honda themselves. If that’s not credible i don’t know what is.
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Boeing74741R
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:45 am

LJ wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
2) Would this have happened whether Brexit happened or not?


I think we can argue that it would have happened anyway, though the upcoming Brexit may have speeded things up. In essence, it doesn't make sense to build cars outside the EU with the current Japan - EU FTA. There's probably still some benefit to produce the cars in the EU (smaller lead times to customer), but the UK factories may have closed anyway. However, we don't know and will never know.


I'd go with that, particularly given the current grim outlook for the global car industry. To be honest, with the new FTA it wouldn't surprise me if other Japanese companies are evaluating whether it's necessary for them to have a manufacturing presence in the EU (particularly the UK). Take Hitachi Rail for example: does it really need to keep the recently-built Newton Aycliffe train assembly plant after the current order book dries up and the plant in Pistoia, Italy it acquired a few years ago as part of its takeover of AnsaldoBreda? When you look at the trains they've built for the UK market, the bodyshells come from the Kasado plant in Japan and are fitted out in Newton Aycliffe or Pistoia, with a few of the pre-production/first few trains being fully built in Kasado.

I also see that Swindon has been producing cars well below its maximum capacity which although could be linked to the demand for Honda's (or more specifically the models it produces there), that must surely have been another factor.

Anyway, it's now been confirmed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47287386

zkojq wrote:
How long until Peugeot-Citroen closes down Vauxhall's production facilities? IMO they never should have bought Opel-Vauxhall anyway.


It wouldn't surprise me if PSA closes down Ellesmere Port at the end of the current generation Astra's lifetime; not necessarily because of Brexit, but more to do with the segment the Astra competes in being squeezed due to competition and people wanting similar-sized SUV's. It's also up again reported gaps in quality and benchmarking versus other PSA plants and general overcapacity in the wider PSA manufacturing plant portfolio: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/moto ... ost-brexit

Luton would appear to be more secure (for now): https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... exit-fears
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:28 am

Arion640 wrote:
But turkey are outside of the EU, they are already in the boat. As much as i know you want to blame it on brexit, if it turns out to be true, it’s quite hard to justify.


Turkey already has all the necessary trade agreements and border arrangements that the UK will take decades to set up again - even if they are less favourable than for those within the EU.

That's exactly why Brexit is so stupid, stupid!
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:19 pm

Another unfounded rationale for Brexit is unravelling today.... with Michael Gove addressing the National Farmers Union saying “It will not be the case that we will have zero rate tariffs on food products, there will be protection for agriculture and food”

As those who understood these things have been saying for a long time, under Most Favoured Nation rules under the WTO this was always going to happen, as to zero rate imports would have flooded UK with cheap food and drink form the wold over - but decimated local production.

So as expected, tariffs will apply to imports post Brexit, meaning that calling out people like Tim Martin from Wetherspoons (who have continually spouted how much cheaper food and drink will be post Brexit) is not now just an educated opinion based on rules and facts, it's now official.

Gove has also pledged to uphold food standards, which means it will be difficult to get those trade deals with the USA that brexiters seem to crave.

https://news.sky.com/story/national-far ... s-11641605

So current EU food standards will remain, new tariffs will get introduced, and subsidies to farmers will continue.

More false promises not being delivered.... more reasons to go back to the people for a final say Peoples Vote?
 
ltbewr
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:36 pm

Honda, Toyota, Nissan have major facilities in the USA and Mexico and Honda in Canada. I wonder if some UK market product could come from the NA plants instead of Japan in the face of Brexit. I recall some Honda models were assembled in the UK for the NA market. I guaranteed PSA will shut down what is left of ex-GM divisions, even if wasn't Brexit to keep jobs in France.
Still, these companies' are making rational financial decisions in part due to the disruptions from Brexit. The irony is the loss of many 1000's of good paying 'blue collar' jobs. But the UK working class has a bad reputation and why it's home companies failed or sold to non-UK companies.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:55 pm

seahawk wrote:
Olddog wrote:
And we have only tomlinson'word for that. We will see what Honda will say really.


The official word is production adjustment in Turkey.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/18/busi ... honda.html


Indeed,
while the Swindon plant is entirely closed when HONDA ends its current assembly lines there, Honda simply announced it will no longer produce the Civic model in Turkey: it will however NOT close its activities there and is reportedly seeking other assembly work for its Turkish business. (!)
https://paultan.org/2019/02/19/honda-co ... l-live-on/

Seems like Tom Linson was deliberately trying to make 2 very different cases look very similar... I wonder why? :scratchchin:

Nobody knows the terms under which the UK is to trade with the EU: who on earth would decide to invest massive amounts of money in converting an existing UK assembly line if you're unsure it will still make any sense in the medium term even? Better take the Turkish assembly line instead then for reconvesion to future models, just like HONDA did.
HONDA is trying to avoid being caught in a political storm by not explicitly mentioning the Turks will get something else, contrary to Swindon which is just given up.

Nothing to do with Brexit, right?
What's the secret deal with the government this time?
"Please avoid mentioning Brexit or the new work for the assembly line in Turkey and we'll even pay you for part of the closure of Swindon"?
After all, the government still have those 60m left from the planned subsidy for a new line at NISSAN Sunderland which they got thrown back in their face...
:stirthepot:
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:53 pm

Image

Image
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Bostrom
Posts: 810
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:54 pm

7 labour MPs has left the party, partly because of Brexit. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47278902
 
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:18 pm

Image

Boeing74741R wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if PSA closes down Ellesmere Port at the end of the current generation Astra's lifetime; not necessarily because of Brexit, but more to do with the segment the Astra competes in being squeezed due to competition and people wanting similar-sized SUV's. It's also up again reported gaps in quality and benchmarking versus other PSA plants and general overcapacity in the wider PSA manufacturing plant portfolio: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/moto ... ost-brexit

Luton would appear to be more secure (for now): https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... exit-fears


I just don't understand why PSA had to buy them in the first place. Their products mainly are in declining market segments, their brand reputation is not great (though I guess Opel's is a bit stronger and enables them to have a 'german' brand), they've made nearly twenty consecutive years of losses and GM was so desperate to get rid of it that they'd probably have shut them down - handing more marketshare to PSA.

Bostrom wrote:
7 labour MPs has left the party, partly because of Brexit. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47278902


When will the same happen to the Conservative party over their complete lack of leadership over brexit?
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 5:Bye England! See you soon Scotland ?

Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:40 pm

zkojq wrote:

When will the same happen to the Conservative party over their complete lack of leadership over brexit?


Rumour has it that three Tories are due to leave the Conservative party very soon to join the Independent Group.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 70431.html

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