KICT
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Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:56 am

Just when you thought our national predicament couldn't get more absurd/asinine/insane, Pence is now invoking MLK to justify the construction of Trump's border wall (the one that Trump promised us 1000x that Mexico was supposed to be paying for). The previous sentence should be enough and I shouldn't have to quote him directly given how far up Trump's behind Pence is, but for the sake of it:

Pence, appearing on CBS’ “Face The Nation” on Sunday, applauded President Donald Trump’s latest effort to bridge the gap between his push for the wall and the Democratic opposition to it ― the impasse that has resulted in a partial government shutdown. Pence said administration officials have been speaking with rank and file Democrats in order to get a deal done, though he wouldn’t name those Democrats. He did, however, drop King’s name as someone whose message could inspire the two sides to come together.

“The hearts and minds of the American people today are thinking a lot about it being the weekend we are remembering the life and the work of Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.,” Pence told host Margaret Brennan. “One of my favorite quotes from Dr. King was, ‘Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy.’ You think of how he changed America, he inspired us to change through the legislative process.”

We can now add MLK to the list of people spinning in their graves over this.
There will be no "coming together" over this. Trump had no mandate to govern in January 2017 having lost the popular vote, much less today having lost the midterms by a huge margin.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
rivetremover
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:40 am

I mean that doesn't sound like he was using MLK to build a wall but to inspire cooperation aka compromise. Unfortunately both sides consider any compromise in any direction absolutely crazy so here we are talking about how someone is using a dead civil rights leader to build a border wall. Its just typical hyperbole.

I personally think this shutdown should make us realize how much of the federal government is not necessary. When so much of the government is shut down and the vast majority of Americans are completely unaffected that tells me there's some bloat in there somewhere.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:43 am

Well .. that is religious fundamentalism in a nutshell...
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ltbewr
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:45 am

VP Pence is one of the most offensive persons to currently hold high office in the USA after Pres. Trump. He is a racist, a phony Christian, anti-GLTBQ, pro-war, anti-worker, anti-poor, anti-immigrant and anti-Islamic. He is the polar opposite of Dr. King. The only reason he is VP was to get Christian Republicans voters for Trump.
We don't know how Dr. King would have commented on the immigration issues of our times, but it is interesting to note that in his lifetime, in 1965, 100 years of severely limiting immigration of Asians (especially from mainland China) to the USA came to an end, in part inspired by his efforts for civil rights.
 
rivetremover
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:22 pm

ltbewr wrote:
VP Pence is one of the most offensive persons to currently hold high office in the USA after Pres. Trump. He is a racist, a phony Christian, anti-GLTBQ, pro-war, anti-worker, anti-poor, anti-immigrant and anti-Islamic. He is the polar opposite of Dr. King. The only reason he is VP was to get Christian Republicans voters for Trump.
We don't know how Dr. King would have commented on the immigration issues of our times, but it is interesting to note that in his lifetime, in 1965, 100 years of severely limiting immigration of Asians (especially from mainland China) to the USA came to an end, in part inspired by his efforts for civil rights.


If you think MLK would have been kind to LGBT and gay marriage laws you're dreaming. Many in the African American community to this day are anti LGBTQ.
 
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DL717
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:31 pm

rivetremover wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
VP Pence is one of the most offensive persons to currently hold high office in the USA after Pres. Trump. He is a racist, a phony Christian, anti-GLTBQ, pro-war, anti-worker, anti-poor, anti-immigrant and anti-Islamic. He is the polar opposite of Dr. King. The only reason he is VP was to get Christian Republicans voters for Trump.
We don't know how Dr. King would have commented on the immigration issues of our times, but it is interesting to note that in his lifetime, in 1965, 100 years of severely limiting immigration of Asians (especially from mainland China) to the USA came to an end, in part inspired by his efforts for civil rights.


If you think MLK would have been kind to LGBT and gay marriage laws you're dreaming. Many in the African American community to this day are anti LGBTQ.


Indeed. He was a Baptist minister for crying out loud.
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DL717
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:31 pm

KICT wrote:
Just when you thought our national predicament couldn't get more absurd/asinine/insane, Pence is now invoking MLK to justify the construction of Trump's border wall (the one that Trump promised us 1000x that Mexico was supposed to be paying for). The previous sentence should be enough and I shouldn't have to quote him directly given how far up Trump's behind Pence is, but for the sake of it:

Pence, appearing on CBS’ “Face The Nation” on Sunday, applauded President Donald Trump’s latest effort to bridge the gap between his push for the wall and the Democratic opposition to it ― the impasse that has resulted in a partial government shutdown. Pence said administration officials have been speaking with rank and file Democrats in order to get a deal done, though he wouldn’t name those Democrats. He did, however, drop King’s name as someone whose message could inspire the two sides to come together.

“The hearts and minds of the American people today are thinking a lot about it being the weekend we are remembering the life and the work of Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.,” Pence told host Margaret Brennan. “One of my favorite quotes from Dr. King was, ‘Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy.’ You think of how he changed America, he inspired us to change through the legislative process.”

We can now add MLK to the list of people spinning in their graves over this.
There will be no "coming together" over this. Trump had no mandate to govern in January 2017 having lost the popular vote, much less today having lost the midterms by a huge margin.


Fail to see where he’s invoking anything other than discussing MLK on MLK weekend.
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casinterest
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:43 pm

DL717 wrote:
KICT wrote:
Just when you thought our national predicament couldn't get more absurd/asinine/insane, Pence is now invoking MLK to justify the construction of Trump's border wall (the one that Trump promised us 1000x that Mexico was supposed to be paying for). The previous sentence should be enough and I shouldn't have to quote him directly given how far up Trump's behind Pence is, but for the sake of it:

Pence, appearing on CBS’ “Face The Nation” on Sunday, applauded President Donald Trump’s latest effort to bridge the gap between his push for the wall and the Democratic opposition to it ― the impasse that has resulted in a partial government shutdown. Pence said administration officials have been speaking with rank and file Democrats in order to get a deal done, though he wouldn’t name those Democrats. He did, however, drop King’s name as someone whose message could inspire the two sides to come together.

“The hearts and minds of the American people today are thinking a lot about it being the weekend we are remembering the life and the work of Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.,” Pence told host Margaret Brennan. “One of my favorite quotes from Dr. King was, ‘Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy.’ You think of how he changed America, he inspired us to change through the legislative process.”

We can now add MLK to the list of people spinning in their graves over this.
There will be no "coming together" over this. Trump had no mandate to govern in January 2017 having lost the popular vote, much less today having lost the midterms by a huge margin.


Fail to see where he’s invoking anything other than discussing MLK on MLK weekend.


He was comparing Trump to MLK. Trump is a divider. MLK was a unifier. Can't get much further in difference. .
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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DL717
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:53 pm

casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:
KICT wrote:
Just when you thought our national predicament couldn't get more absurd/asinine/insane, Pence is now invoking MLK to justify the construction of Trump's border wall (the one that Trump promised us 1000x that Mexico was supposed to be paying for). The previous sentence should be enough and I shouldn't have to quote him directly given how far up Trump's behind Pence is, but for the sake of it:


We can now add MLK to the list of people spinning in their graves over this.
There will be no "coming together" over this. Trump had no mandate to govern in January 2017 having lost the popular vote, much less today having lost the midterms by a huge margin.


Fail to see where he’s invoking anything other than discussing MLK on MLK weekend.


He was comparing Trump to MLK. Trump is a divider. MLK was a unifier. Can't get much further in difference. .


No, he wasn’t. He was suggesting people need a uniter. Both sides need to get their shit together.
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casinterest
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:11 pm

DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Fail to see where he’s invoking anything other than discussing MLK on MLK weekend.


He was comparing Trump to MLK. Trump is a divider. MLK was a unifier. Can't get much further in difference. .


No, he wasn’t. He was suggesting people need a uniter. Both sides need to get their shit together.

??
Exactly my point, and Trump is no uniter. He is a lying racist that works to divide this country.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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DL717
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:14 pm

casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

He was comparing Trump to MLK. Trump is a divider. MLK was a unifier. Can't get much further in difference. .


No, he wasn’t. He was suggesting people need a uniter. Both sides need to get their shit together.

??
Exactly my point, and Trump is no uniter. He is a lying racist that works to divide this country.


Exactly my point. Pence doesn’t see any of them as a uniter, left or right. They’re both behaving like children. He’s not comparing MLK to Trump.
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ltbewr
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:24 pm

DL717 wrote:
rivetremover wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
VP Pence is one of the most offensive persons to currently hold high office in the USA after Pres. Trump. He is a racist, a phony Christian, anti-GLTBQ, pro-war, anti-worker, anti-poor, anti-immigrant and anti-Islamic. He is the polar opposite of Dr. King. The only reason he is VP was to get Christian Republicans voters for Trump.
We don't know how Dr. King would have commented on the immigration issues of our times, but it is interesting to note that in his lifetime, in 1965, 100 years of severely limiting immigration of Asians (especially from mainland China) to the USA came to an end, in part inspired by his efforts for civil rights.


If you think MLK would have been kind to LGBT and gay marriage laws you're dreaming. Many in the African American community to this day are anti LGBTQ.


Indeed. He was a Baptist minister for crying out loud.


Dr. King was somewhat ambiguous as to gays, there are limited writings by him as to them. As with many of his time he saw it as a mental health problem or of nurture, not nature. He likely wouldn't been in favor of gay marriage but was tolerant of GLTBQ's so long as kept it discrete. One of top organizers of the March on Washington and a close advisor, Bayand Russell, was gay as was a supporting journalist. Dr. King did have Russell stay in more behind the scenes roles due to the fears of his homosexuality being 'outed' and hurting the larger goals of racial civil rights. Some of his family did support GLTBQ rights and eventually gay marriage as connected to larger civil rights issues.
Some writings do suggest he would have been tolerant of undocumented immigrants. He did correspond with and in support of Cesar Chavez of the agricultural union, one with mostly non-citizens working in California. Dr. King strongly respected the dignity of work and workers and wouldn't have wanted to see foreign nationals working legally or illegally in the USA being exploited with low pay and poor conditions. I also suspect he clearly would have condemned the rough treatment of illegal immigrants or separating their children by ICE today.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:28 pm

DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:

No, he wasn’t. He was suggesting people need a uniter. Both sides need to get their shit together.

??
Exactly my point, and Trump is no uniter. He is a lying racist that works to divide this country.


Exactly my point. Pence doesn’t see any of them as a uniter, left or right. They’re both behaving like children. He’s not comparing MLK to Trump.


Just remember, this whole fight over a border wall has been supported from the right with lies,dog-whistles, and racism
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:30 pm

MLK = Martin Luther King Jr.? This is an international forum, so not everybody is familiar with abbreviations 8-)

rivetremover wrote:
If you think MLK would have been kind to LGBT and gay marriage laws you're dreaming. Many in the African American community to this day are anti LGBTQ.


How can you be anti-person? LGBTQ isn't a choice, it is a part of a human being. Gee, don't ask other to change or your believes, even if they could. That is a sign of a religious fanatic.
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rivetremover
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:37 pm

Dutchy wrote:
MLK = Martin Luther King Jr.? This is an international forum, so not everybody is familiar with abbreviations 8-)

rivetremover wrote:
If you think MLK would have been kind to LGBT and gay marriage laws you're dreaming. Many in the African American community to this day are anti LGBTQ.


How can you be anti-person? LGBTQ isn't a choice, it is a part of a human being. Gee, don't ask other to change or your believes, even if they could. That is a sign of a religious fanatic.


They weren't thought of as normal people until very recently. Many in the African American community still feel this way. Martin Luther King Jr. by today's standards a "religious fanatic" and would be on Pence's side all day long with regards to religion and the LGBTQ community.

But back on topic I don't think Pence was saying he would have supported a wall or anything he was referencing trying to work together to compromise. Everyone else is just using that as "proof" of something that just isn't there.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:10 pm

DL717 wrote:
rivetremover wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
VP Pence is one of the most offensive persons to currently hold high office in the USA after Pres. Trump. He is a racist, a phony Christian, anti-GLTBQ, pro-war, anti-worker, anti-poor, anti-immigrant and anti-Islamic. He is the polar opposite of Dr. King. The only reason he is VP was to get Christian Republicans voters for Trump.
We don't know how Dr. King would have commented on the immigration issues of our times, but it is interesting to note that in his lifetime, in 1965, 100 years of severely limiting immigration of Asians (especially from mainland China) to the USA came to an end, in part inspired by his efforts for civil rights.


If you think MLK would have been kind to LGBT and gay marriage laws you're dreaming. Many in the African American community to this day are anti LGBTQ.


Indeed. He was a Baptist minister for crying out loud.

You’ll be surprised to see who was one of MLK’s right hand men then
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
seb146
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:14 pm

From my experience, many in the African-American community are against the idea of men doing the deed with other men but, at the same time, live and let live. If that makes them happy, fine.

As far as Pence, he is probably trying to give something to the MAGA fan boys and right wing media to prove he is not racist. "He gave this quote from MLK, therefore he is respectful and tolerant of everyone" line of thinking.

If Pence truly believed this quote, he work to open the government and fund immigration without the stupid vanity wall. You know: the thing Americans want.
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Dieuwer
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:20 pm

Dutchy wrote:
MLK = Martin Luther King Jr.? This is an international forum, so not everybody is familiar with abbreviations 8-)

rivetremover wrote:
If you think MLK would have been kind to LGBT and gay marriage laws you're dreaming. Many in the African American community to this day are anti LGBTQ.


How can you be anti-person? LGBTQ isn't a choice, it is a part of a human being. Gee, don't ask other to change or your believes, even if they could. That is a sign of a religious fanatic.


Time for a Harvey Milk Day then?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:35 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
MLK = Martin Luther King Jr.? This is an international forum, so not everybody is familiar with abbreviations 8-)

rivetremover wrote:
If you think MLK would have been kind to LGBT and gay marriage laws you're dreaming. Many in the African American community to this day are anti LGBTQ.


How can you be anti-person? LGBTQ isn't a choice, it is a part of a human being. Gee, don't ask other to change or your believes, even if they could. That is a sign of a religious fanatic.


Time for a Harvey Milk Day then?


Not a bad idea.
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DL717
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:49 pm

casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
??
Exactly my point, and Trump is no uniter. He is a lying racist that works to divide this country.


Exactly my point. Pence doesn’t see any of them as a uniter, left or right. They’re both behaving like children. He’s not comparing MLK to Trump.


Just remember, this whole fight over a border wall has been supported from the right with lies,dog-whistles, and racism


Woof woof... one of my favorite for the rabid lap dogs on the left. Nothing like a little reminder to start their day as they go down the road of stupid on this long standing problem...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RXwnlsNFXIY
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DL717
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:58 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
MLK = Martin Luther King Jr.? This is an international forum, so not everybody is familiar with abbreviations 8-)

rivetremover wrote:
If you think MLK would have been kind to LGBT and gay marriage laws you're dreaming. Many in the African American community to this day are anti LGBTQ.


How can you be anti-person? LGBTQ isn't a choice, it is a part of a human being. Gee, don't ask other to change or your believes, even if they could. That is a sign of a religious fanatic.


Time for a Harvey Milk Day then?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk_Day
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casinterest
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:02 pm

DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Exactly my point. Pence doesn’t see any of them as a uniter, left or right. They’re both behaving like children. He’s not comparing MLK to Trump.


Just remember, this whole fight over a border wall has been supported from the right with lies,dog-whistles, and racism


Woof woof... one of my favorite for the rabid lap dogs on the left. Nothing like a little reminder to start their day as they go down the road of stupid on this long standing problem...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RXwnlsNFXIY


Long standing problem? The Senate had agreed on a plan until Trump lost his balls with the racist liars from the right wing.
The crap video you posted isn't about the current shutdown by the lying racist trump who can't think for himself.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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DL717
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:24 pm

casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Just remember, this whole fight over a border wall has been supported from the right with lies,dog-whistles, and racism


Woof woof... one of my favorite for the rabid lap dogs on the left. Nothing like a little reminder to start their day as they go down the road of stupid on this long standing problem...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RXwnlsNFXIY


Long standing problem? The Senate had agreed on a plan until Trump lost his balls with the racist liars from the right wing.
The crap video you posted isn't about the current shutdown by the lying racist trump who can't think for himself.


Actually it is. It’s exaclty the reason. The only difference is that in your eyes, the following criteria apply:

Clinton/Obama say it = okay
Trump says it = racist

You guys are so full of your own crap it’s unbelievable, and yeah, if Clinton was talking about it in a SOU address, it’s a long-standing problem.
Last edited by DL717 on Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:25 pm

DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Exactly my point. Pence doesn’t see any of them as a uniter, left or right. They’re both behaving like children. He’s not comparing MLK to Trump.


Just remember, this whole fight over a border wall has been supported from the right with lies,dog-whistles, and racism


Woof woof... one of my favorite for the rabid lap dogs on the left. Nothing like a little reminder to start their day as they go down the road of stupid on this long standing problem...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RXwnlsNFXIY

Try again.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 336303002/
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Flighty
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:27 pm

MLK would probably be disappointed that rich people decided to destroy the middle class and American industry with open trade and immigration policies. And I am fully informed on the gains from trade, which are considerable. But the whole point was to hollow out the middle class, including the African American middle class. King would be devastated if he saw how little the citizenship of African Americans counts today. And how frequently people misquote him to justify the humors of rich people.

There is no limit to the greed and the open racism of people on both the hard right and the hard left. Each is a path to war and disaster.
Last edited by Flighty on Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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DL717
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:27 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Just remember, this whole fight over a border wall has been supported from the right with lies,dog-whistles, and racism


Woof woof... one of my favorite for the rabid lap dogs on the left. Nothing like a little reminder to start their day as they go down the road of stupid on this long standing problem...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RXwnlsNFXIY

Try again.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 336303002/


What are you even talking about? Stay on topic.
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casinterest
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:29 pm

DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Woof woof... one of my favorite for the rabid lap dogs on the left. Nothing like a little reminder to start their day as they go down the road of stupid on this long standing problem...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RXwnlsNFXIY


Long standing problem? The Senate had agreed on a plan until Trump lost his balls with the racist liars from the right wing.
The crap video you posted isn't about the current shutdown by the lying racist trump who can't think for himself.


Actually it is. It’s exaclty the reason. The only difference is that in your eyes, the following criteria apply:

Clinton/Obama say it = okay
Trump says it = racist

You guys are so full of your own crap it’s unbelievable.

No this is about the budget, not dishonorable lying racists seeking to waste more money on something that wasn't originally agreed to.
Now we have honest, descent workers not getting paid because of dishonorable lying racists.

You didn't see Clinton shut down the government over this did you? You didn't see George W. Bush shut down the government over this did you?
You didn't see Obama shut down the government over this did you?

So why is the government shut down again? Oh that's right, a bunch of lying,racists decided to put innocent people at risk over lies and racism.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:38 pm

DL717 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Woof woof... one of my favorite for the rabid lap dogs on the left. Nothing like a little reminder to start their day as they go down the road of stupid on this long standing problem...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RXwnlsNFXIY

Try again.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 336303002/


What are you even talking about? Stay on topic.

Why did the senate unanimously pass a bill to keep the government open, sans wall, if it's such a long standing problem?

DL717 wrote:
Clinton/Obama say it = okay
Trump says it = racist

When Clinton/Obama call immigrants diseased-ridden, violent, prayer rug-toting terrorist animals infesting our country making us poorer, sicker, and uglier--while employing them at all their properties/businesses, then yes, it will be racist too. To you it will sound super-dee-duper as usual I'm sure.

rivetremover wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
MLK = Martin Luther King Jr.? This is an international forum, so not everybody is familiar with abbreviations 8-)

rivetremover wrote:
If you think MLK would have been kind to LGBT and gay marriage laws you're dreaming. Many in the African American community to this day are anti LGBTQ.


How can you be anti-person? LGBTQ isn't a choice, it is a part of a human being. Gee, don't ask other to change or your believes, even if they could. That is a sign of a religious fanatic.


They weren't thought of as normal people until very recently. Many in the African American community still feel this way. Martin Luther King Jr. by today's standards a "religious fanatic" and would be on Pence's side all day long with regards to religion and the LGBTQ community.

But back on topic I don't think Pence was saying he would have supported a wall or anything he was referencing trying to work together to compromise. Everyone else is just using that as "proof" of something that just isn't there.

Who knows? His right hand man was an out gay man.He may have evolved. What we *do* know is that the right was anti black and anti LGBT then, anti black when evangelicals and Trump were trying to keep them out of their businesses/schools in the 70s, anti black/LGBT today, and will continue to be tomorrow and the day after. At least they're consistent.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Flighty
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Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:42 pm

casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Long standing problem? The Senate had agreed on a plan until Trump lost his balls with the racist liars from the right wing.
The crap video you posted isn't about the current shutdown by the lying racist trump who can't think for himself.


Actually it is. It’s exaclty the reason. The only difference is that in your eyes, the following criteria apply:

Clinton/Obama say it = okay
Trump says it = racist

You guys are so full of your own crap it’s unbelievable.

No this is about the budget, not dishonorable lying racists seeking to waste more money on something that wasn't originally agreed to.
Now we have honest, descent workers not getting paid because of dishonorable lying racists.

You didn't see Clinton shut down the government over this did you? You didn't see George W. Bush shut down the government over this did you?
You didn't see Obama shut down the government over this did you?

So why is the government shut down again? Oh that's right, a bunch of lying,racists decided to put innocent people at risk over lies and racism.


The government is closed because of a symbol of power that will be devastating either way this goes. Either we have a consensus that border law should be enforced, or we have a consensus on open borders, just anyone who walks here is fine, go ahead and bid down American wages. This will be great for landlords and the rich. Their employees in the media are busy tricking the lower class into voting Democratic.

The decision on the wall is a proxy for whether you want a middle class or you are cool with tanking it forever. People support openness without even basic knowledge of the way average people live globally. Average people will do your job for $10 per day, and on average, they are as smart as you are. Do you want that? Perhaps Middle class is a "nationalist myth" that never happened. History is always being rewritten.

I tend to think MLK expected African Americans to join the middle class, not to say he would support "the wall," but he may not support extreme lassiez faire globalization. That is an Ayn Rand dream. The idea that he word "racism" has tricked a lot of people into supporting this sort of extreme fantasy is funny. I'm impressed. Would MLK be impressed? Can't pretend to say.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 8876
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:54 pm

Flighty wrote:
casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Actually it is. It’s exaclty the reason. The only difference is that in your eyes, the following criteria apply:

Clinton/Obama say it = okay
Trump says it = racist

You guys are so full of your own crap it’s unbelievable.

No this is about the budget, not dishonorable lying racists seeking to waste more money on something that wasn't originally agreed to.
Now we have honest, descent workers not getting paid because of dishonorable lying racists.

You didn't see Clinton shut down the government over this did you? You didn't see George W. Bush shut down the government over this did you?
You didn't see Obama shut down the government over this did you?

So why is the government shut down again? Oh that's right, a bunch of lying,racists decided to put innocent people at risk over lies and racism.


The government is closed because of a symbol of power that will be devastating either way this goes. Either we have a consensus that border law should be enforced, or we have a consensus on open borders, just anyone who walks here is fine, go ahead and bid down American wages. This will be great for landlords and the rich. Their employees in the media are busy tricking the lower class into voting Democratic. The decision on the wall is a proxy for whether you want a middle class or you are cool with tanking it forever. Perhaps Middle class is a "nationalist myth" that never happened. History is always being rewritten. I tend to think MLK expected African Americans to join the middle class, not to say he would support "the wall," but he may not support extreme lassiez faire globalization. That is
an Ayn Rand dream. The idea that he word "racism" has tricked a lot of people into supporting this sort of extreme fantasy is funny. I'm impressed. Would MLK be impressed? Can't pretend to say.

This is not an either or situation. The border wall is not the end all be all of border security. Only racist lies would have you believing that.

The middle class is going away because they vote for bank bailouts and tax cuts for the rich. There is no income wage gain going on for the "middle class:" unless you are good at your job and irreplaceable.

MLK wanted equality for all, and that is not what Trump and the GOP represent. Trump and the GOP believe in broad strokes of marketing, and then the substance of what they give is empty.

The "Border Wall" has been trumpeted as a cure all, and it is not. If you put an obstacle between someone that wants something and someone that is offering something, the Obstacle will only slow them down. The people in the US that are offering jobs need to be found out and punished. The Tax-id's that are given and used need to be checked by employers and renters. The banks and employers that let it happen should be found out. But to justify that MLK would have supported the shutdown over such a disagreement between border security and a border wall is ludicrous.


The fact that Jump took glee in shutting down the government over this is atrocious. Your very opening statement is based on Trump's lie about Democrats and "open borders".
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:54 pm

casinterest wrote:
Flighty wrote:
casinterest wrote:
No this is about the budget, not dishonorable lying racists seeking to waste more money on something that wasn't originally agreed to.
Now we have honest, descent workers not getting paid because of dishonorable lying racists.

You didn't see Clinton shut down the government over this did you? You didn't see George W. Bush shut down the government over this did you?
You didn't see Obama shut down the government over this did you?

So why is the government shut down again? Oh that's right, a bunch of lying,racists decided to put innocent people at risk over lies and racism.


The government is closed because of a symbol of power that will be devastating either way this goes. Either we have a consensus that border law should be enforced, or we have a consensus on open borders, just anyone who walks here is fine, go ahead and bid down American wages. This will be great for landlords and the rich. Their employees in the media are busy tricking the lower class into voting Democratic. The decision on the wall is a proxy for whether you want a middle class or you are cool with tanking it forever. Perhaps Middle class is a "nationalist myth" that never happened. History is always being rewritten. I tend to think MLK expected African Americans to join the middle class, not to say he would support "the wall," but he may not support extreme lassiez faire globalization. That is
an Ayn Rand dream. The idea that he word "racism" has tricked a lot of people into supporting this sort of extreme fantasy is funny. I'm impressed. Would MLK be impressed? Can't pretend to say.

This is not an either or situation. The border wall is not the end all be all of border security. Only racist lies would have you believing that.

The middle class is going away because they vote for bank bailouts and tax cuts for the rich. There is no income wage gain going on for the "middle class:" unless you are good at your job and irreplaceable.

MLK wanted equality for all, and that is not what Trump and the GOP represent. Trump and the GOP believe in broad strokes of marketing, and then the substance of what they give is empty.

The "Border Wall" has been trumpeted as a cure all, and it is not. If you put an obstacle between someone that wants something and someone that is offering something, the Obstacle will only slow them down. The people in the US that are offering jobs need to be found out and punished. The Tax-id's that are given and used need to be checked by employers and renters. The banks and employers that let it happen should be found out. But to justify that MLK would have supported the shutdown over such a disagreement between border security and a border wall is ludicrous.


The fact that Jump took glee in shutting down the government over this is atrocious. Your very opening statement is based on Trump's lie about Democrats and "open borders".


You disputed the idea that you support open borders, then you also said you don't support border barriers. What does that mean? I thought people are proudly supporting open borders and open citizenship.. nothing wrong with that... if that's the country we want to be, let's do it.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:01 pm

People will just dig tunnels under any wall.
As long as the living conditions in Central America are way worse than anything, people will want to come to the USA. Work as an undocumented immigrant doing low-paid work is better than live in squalor.or getting killed at home.
So, if the people of the USA do not want people to immigrate to the USA, then the best thing they could do is to help make living conditions in Central America much better than they are now. A good start would be to stop selling weapon to guerrilla fighters and other fanatic groups who kill citizens of Central America.
Last edited by Dieuwer on Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 8876
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:01 pm

Flighty wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Flighty wrote:

The government is closed because of a symbol of power that will be devastating either way this goes. Either we have a consensus that border law should be enforced, or we have a consensus on open borders, just anyone who walks here is fine, go ahead and bid down American wages. This will be great for landlords and the rich. Their employees in the media are busy tricking the lower class into voting Democratic. The decision on the wall is a proxy for whether you want a middle class or you are cool with tanking it forever. Perhaps Middle class is a "nationalist myth" that never happened. History is always being rewritten. I tend to think MLK expected African Americans to join the middle class, not to say he would support "the wall," but he may not support extreme lassiez faire globalization. That is
an Ayn Rand dream. The idea that he word "racism" has tricked a lot of people into supporting this sort of extreme fantasy is funny. I'm impressed. Would MLK be impressed? Can't pretend to say.

This is not an either or situation. The border wall is not the end all be all of border security. Only racist lies would have you believing that.

The middle class is going away because they vote for bank bailouts and tax cuts for the rich. There is no income wage gain going on for the "middle class:" unless you are good at your job and irreplaceable.

MLK wanted equality for all, and that is not what Trump and the GOP represent. Trump and the GOP believe in broad strokes of marketing, and then the substance of what they give is empty.

The "Border Wall" has been trumpeted as a cure all, and it is not. If you put an obstacle between someone that wants something and someone that is offering something, the Obstacle will only slow them down. The people in the US that are offering jobs need to be found out and punished. The Tax-id's that are given and used need to be checked by employers and renters. The banks and employers that let it happen should be found out. But to justify that MLK would have supported the shutdown over such a disagreement between border security and a border wall is ludicrous.


The fact that Jump took glee in shutting down the government over this is atrocious. Your very opening statement is based on Trump's lie about Democrats and "open borders".


You disputed the idea that you support open borders, then you also said you don't support border barriers. What does that mean? I thought people are proudly supporting open borders and open citizenship.. nothing wrong with that... if that's the country we want to be, let's do it.


Are you on drugs?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Posts: 1965
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:03 pm

Flighty wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Flighty wrote:

The government is closed because of a symbol of power that will be devastating either way this goes. Either we have a consensus that border law should be enforced, or we have a consensus on open borders, just anyone who walks here is fine, go ahead and bid down American wages. This will be great for landlords and the rich. Their employees in the media are busy tricking the lower class into voting Democratic. The decision on the wall is a proxy for whether you want a middle class or you are cool with tanking it forever. Perhaps Middle class is a "nationalist myth" that never happened. History is always being rewritten. I tend to think MLK expected African Americans to join the middle class, not to say he would support "the wall," but he may not support extreme lassiez faire globalization. That is
an Ayn Rand dream. The idea that he word "racism" has tricked a lot of people into supporting this sort of extreme fantasy is funny. I'm impressed. Would MLK be impressed? Can't pretend to say.

This is not an either or situation. The border wall is not the end all be all of border security. Only racist lies would have you believing that.

The middle class is going away because they vote for bank bailouts and tax cuts for the rich. There is no income wage gain going on for the "middle class:" unless you are good at your job and irreplaceable.

MLK wanted equality for all, and that is not what Trump and the GOP represent. Trump and the GOP believe in broad strokes of marketing, and then the substance of what they give is empty.

The "Border Wall" has been trumpeted as a cure all, and it is not. If you put an obstacle between someone that wants something and someone that is offering something, the Obstacle will only slow them down. The people in the US that are offering jobs need to be found out and punished. The Tax-id's that are given and used need to be checked by employers and renters. The banks and employers that let it happen should be found out. But to justify that MLK would have supported the shutdown over such a disagreement between border security and a border wall is ludicrous.


The fact that Jump took glee in shutting down the government over this is atrocious. Your very opening statement is based on Trump's lie about Democrats and "open borders".


You disputed the idea that you support open borders, then you also said you don't support border barriers. What does that mean? I thought people are proudly supporting open borders and open citizenship.. nothing wrong with that... if that's the country we want to be, let's do it.


Everyone on the Trump campaign team has said the wall is nothing more as a catchy chant that rallies the xenophobic and the frightened against the foreign "invaders". No one involved in right wing messaging except Coulter actually believed the wall should or will be built.

I still say we let you guys build it. With your own money. That way you guys personally realize what a waste it is after 10 years and it still not being complete.

Remember The budget approved and then rejected came out of the white house. Mulvaney crafted and negotiated that. Your small government republicans think it's wasteful.
 
seb146
Posts: 20269
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:40 pm

Flighty wrote:
The government is closed because of a symbol of power that will be devastating either way this goes. Either we have a consensus that border law should be enforced, or we have a consensus on open borders, just anyone who walks here is fine, go ahead and bid down American wages. This will be great for landlords and the rich. Their employees in the media are busy tricking the lower class into voting Democratic.

The decision on the wall is a proxy for whether you want a middle class or you are cool with tanking it forever. People support openness without even basic knowledge of the way average people live globally. Average people will do your job for $10 per day, and on average, they are as smart as you are. Do you want that? Perhaps Middle class is a "nationalist myth" that never happened. History is always being rewritten.

I tend to think MLK expected African Americans to join the middle class, not to say he would support "the wall," but he may not support extreme lassiez faire globalization. That is an Ayn Rand dream. The idea that he word "racism" has tricked a lot of people into supporting this sort of extreme fantasy is funny. I'm impressed. Would MLK be impressed? Can't pretend to say.


The stupid vanity wall has very little to do with the middle class other than Republicans screaming "them brown people are streaming across the border and taking your jobs!" Which is, of course, not true. The middle class is shrinking because the wealthy and those who allegedly create jobs refuse to pay a decent wage. It is unpaid internships with no benefits or minimum wage with no benefits. If there are jobs above minimum wage, they come with no benefits.

Democrats keep proving over and over again they want border security and understand that a simple stupid vanity wall will not fix anything. The media is tricking low information voters into believing that only a wall will raise wages. Just like they trick low information voters into believing giving tax cuts to the rich will create high paying jobs for everyone.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 1572
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:37 am

Jouhou wrote:
Flighty wrote:
casinterest wrote:
This is not an either or situation. The border wall is not the end all be all of border security. Only racist lies would have you believing that.

The middle class is going away because they vote for bank bailouts and tax cuts for the rich. There is no income wage gain going on for the "middle class:" unless you are good at your job and irreplaceable.

MLK wanted equality for all, and that is not what Trump and the GOP represent. Trump and the GOP believe in broad strokes of marketing, and then the substance of what they give is empty.

The "Border Wall" has been trumpeted as a cure all, and it is not. If you put an obstacle between someone that wants something and someone that is offering something, the Obstacle will only slow them down. The people in the US that are offering jobs need to be found out and punished. The Tax-id's that are given and used need to be checked by employers and renters. The banks and employers that let it happen should be found out. But to justify that MLK would have supported the shutdown over such a disagreement between border security and a border wall is ludicrous.


The fact that Jump took glee in shutting down the government over this is atrocious. Your very opening statement is based on Trump's lie about Democrats and "open borders".


You disputed the idea that you support open borders, then you also said you don't support border barriers. What does that mean? I thought people are proudly supporting open borders and open citizenship.. nothing wrong with that... if that's the country we want to be, let's do it.


Everyone on the Trump campaign team has said the wall is nothing more as a catchy chant that rallies the xenophobic and the frightened against the foreign "invaders". No one involved in right wing messaging except Coulter actually believed the wall should or will be built.

I still say we let you guys build it. With your own money. That way you guys personally realize what a waste it is after 10 years and it still not being complete.

Remember The budget approved and then rejected came out of the white house. Mulvaney crafted and negotiated that. Your small government republicans think it's wasteful.


You guys need to stop making things up. It’s rather silly at this point.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:22 am

The wall is not the point; the government deciding whether we have a border is the point, and the deep disagreement. That is something that impacts the wages - not the desire of employers to “pay a decent wage,” any more than you go out of your way to “pay a high enough price” for the things you buy.

The opinion that we don’t need infrastructure, gates, barriers at the borders is quite extreme. People are trumpeting it loudly.
 
seb146
Posts: 20269
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:34 am

DL717 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Flighty wrote:

You disputed the idea that you support open borders, then you also said you don't support border barriers. What does that mean? I thought people are proudly supporting open borders and open citizenship.. nothing wrong with that... if that's the country we want to be, let's do it.


Everyone on the Trump campaign team has said the wall is nothing more as a catchy chant that rallies the xenophobic and the frightened against the foreign "invaders". No one involved in right wing messaging except Coulter actually believed the wall should or will be built.

I still say we let you guys build it. With your own money. That way you guys personally realize what a waste it is after 10 years and it still not being complete.

Remember The budget approved and then rejected came out of the white house. Mulvaney crafted and negotiated that. Your small government republicans think it's wasteful.


You guys need to stop making things up. It’s rather silly at this point.


Mulvaney was the head of the Office Of Budget Management, which writes proposals from the White House. So, what part is made up?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
Posts: 20269
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:39 am

Flighty wrote:
The wall is not the point; the government deciding whether we have a border is the point, and the deep disagreement. That is something that impacts the wages - not the desire of employers to “pay a decent wage,” any more than you go out of your way to “pay a high enough price” for the things you buy.

The opinion that we don’t need infrastructure, gates, barriers at the borders is quite extreme. People are trumpeting it loudly.


We have a border and it needs to be secured. That is where the disagreement is. The MAGA fan boys and their leader want ONLY a wall. Everyone else who actually understands the border understands that we need way more.

The only ones who keep saying we don't need "infrastructure, gates, barriers" at the border at MAGA fan boys telling everyone that is what Democrats want. Which is not true. But, repeat a lie enough....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Posts: 1965
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:28 am

DL717 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Flighty wrote:

You disputed the idea that you support open borders, then you also said you don't support border barriers. What does that mean? I thought people are proudly supporting open borders and open citizenship.. nothing wrong with that... if that's the country we want to be, let's do it.


Everyone on the Trump campaign team has said the wall is nothing more as a catchy chant that rallies the xenophobic and the frightened against the foreign "invaders". No one involved in right wing messaging except Coulter actually believed the wall should or will be built.

I still say we let you guys build it. With your own money. That way you guys personally realize what a waste it is after 10 years and it still not being complete.

Remember The budget approved and then rejected came out of the white house. Mulvaney crafted and negotiated that. Your small government republicans think it's wasteful.


You guys need to stop making things up. It’s rather silly at this point.


https://www.axios.com/trump-border-wall ... 5e7ea.html

During a White House meeting in June, Republican Sens. Shelley Moore Capito and Richard Shelby discussed border security with Trump and several White House officials, including Budget Director Mick Mulvaney.
Capito told Trump they'd be able to deliver the $1.6 billion in wall funding he requested. According to a source with direct knowledge, Trump replied, "Who asked for $1.6 billion?" (The answer: Trump’s 2019 budget, which Mulvaney prepared.)


And the sequel to that:
https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-mick ... 6070e.html

Even Trump knows who to blame for this. It's not the dems.

The Icing: https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... -on-border
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 13018
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:33 am

What can we expect from him? Not much as this pandering proves.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
KICT
Topic Author
Posts: 815
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:20 am

Hey MAGAts, why are we only trying to build a wall on the southern border?
Hey MAGAts, if a border wall is a "national emergency", why was the funding for it not included in their 2019 budget request when the Republicans controlled the House?
Trump should just go ahead and declare a national emergency. This is his only way out to save face and it is a win-win for both sides.
He gets to placate his base of racists, xenophobic bigots (some of whom are posting in this thread) and fulfill one of his campaign promises (except for the Mexico paying for it part) and the Democrats will add it to the list of crimes we're going to charge him with (abuse of power) when impeachment proceedings begin.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
TSS
Posts: 3175
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:52 pm

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:34 am

Dieuwer wrote:
People will just dig tunnels under any wall.


We are of the same mind on this, except when I first heard talk of building the wall I said "Wait… Trump wants to build a wall to keep out some of the best tunnel builders on Earth? You let me know how that works out". I am a firm believer in the phrase "Good fences make good neighbors", but even the best fence will not stop a neighbor getting in if he or she is determined, and building a wall to stop the same people who dug the tunnels that allowed El Chapo to escape is comparable to building a suspension bridge to thwart an invasion by water: At best it's a minor inconvenience. It would also take all the people who could be spotted when they traveled in open country and render them invisible as they travel underground.
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17417
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Pence Invokes MLK To Justify Border Wall

Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:10 pm

casinterest wrote:
MLK wanted equality for all, and that is not what Trump and the GOP represent. Trump and the GOP believe in broad strokes of marketing, and then the substance of what they give is empty.

Always fun seeing the GOP so earnestly quoting MLK. And the NRA using him to push guns. All totally without a hint of irony. Makes you wonder what they'd say/do to him if he were alive.
E pur si muove -Galileo

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