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WarRI1
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Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:51 am

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/ ... spartandhp


I am not surprised, nor should anyone be who values values, morality and honesty and American Democracy. This man is a danger to our Democratic Institutions and our country as a whole. A Master Liar, a Master Manipulator, a Master Deceiver all being posed as Patriotism, a love of Democracy and supposed defender of this country and its values. A Charlatan of the worst type.
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casinterest
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:54 am

The GOP has gone from being a family centrist, christian moral base to being ruled by lying racist lunatics. There is little compassion , integrity, insight, or honestly left. What is left, is being drowned out by lowly educated masses floundering about.
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WarRI1
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:03 am

casinterest wrote:
The GOP has gone from being a family centrist, christian moral base to being ruled by lying racist lunatics. There is little compassion , integrity, insight, or honestly left. What is left, is being drowned out by lowly educated masses floundering about.



I could not agree more, as someone who has admittedly voted Republican in years past, now I would bite my finger off before I would do that again. As someone who holds views that celebrate our freedoms and have all my life defended those values that I was tought to support and respect. I find this man repugnant, a possible traitor and a supporter of destroying our unity that has been paid for in blood and treasure over and over. Not him of course, he had Shin splints.
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NIKV69
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:18 am

Meghan is simply trying to attack Trump for the things he said about her father which were pretty asinine, but to say legal immigration, watching and vetting who comes in here along with keeping taxes fair for all is scary is pretty stupid. If Donald Trump is extreme I would of hate to have seen Gore become president. That truly would have been scary.
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WarRI1
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:26 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Meghan is simply trying to attack Trump for the things he said about her father which were pretty asinine, but to say legal immigration, watching and vetting who comes in here along with keeping taxes fair for all is scary is pretty stupid. If Donald Trump is extreme I would of hate to have seen Gore become president. That truly would have been scary.



So I guess you support this man wholeheartedly? Try to get by the wall, look at his moral code, his honesty, his questionable racial attitudes, his support of our Democratic Institutions such as a free press and voting rights, etc,etc.
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seb146
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:37 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Meghan is simply trying to attack Trump for the things he said about her father which were pretty asinine, but to say legal immigration, watching and vetting who comes in here along with keeping taxes fair for all is scary is pretty stupid. If Donald Trump is extreme I would of hate to have seen Gore become president. That truly would have been scary.


Climate change and affordable health care and affordable education scares you? Some things Gore says is out there but I would much rather have Gore and McCain (who know how to work across the aisle) than who we currently have.
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cpd
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:42 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Meghan is simply trying to attack Trump for the things he said about her father which were pretty asinine, but to say legal immigration, watching and vetting who comes in here along with keeping taxes fair for all is scary is pretty stupid. If Donald Trump is extreme I would of hate to have seen Gore become president. That truly would have been scary.



Taxes being fair for all is a left wing ideology. It also deters investment from those who create the jobs you need. Great, all taxes are fair for everyone, but nobody had a job.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:54 am

cpd wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Meghan is simply trying to attack Trump for the things he said about her father which were pretty asinine, but to say legal immigration, watching and vetting who comes in here along with keeping taxes fair for all is scary is pretty stupid. If Donald Trump is extreme I would of hate to have seen Gore become president. That truly would have been scary.



Taxes being fair for all is a left wing ideology. It also deters investment from those who create the jobs you need. Great, all taxes are fair for everyone, but nobody had a job.


Just a tad simplistic, give it to the rich and it will trickle down. Where have we heard that before? A trillion dollar tax cut for business and the wealthy, where have we heard that before? Why from business and the wealthy, Surprise, surprise. I just love the advocates of this policy, they must all be big money earners because it does not make sense for low wage earners to support such an unfair tax code. This is a policy for the wealthy, not normal wage earners and somehow I do not think they hang around on A net. Just a guess though.?????
Last edited by WarRI1 on Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:56 am

Liberals don't really have any room to talk about morality. In NY you can now abort a baby up to the second before giving birth. Some liberal activists were in the streets saying that it doesn't go far enough and that as long as the baby is attached to the umbilical cord that the mother should have the right to kill it.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:57 am

cpd wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Meghan is simply trying to attack Trump for the things he said about her father which were pretty asinine, but to say legal immigration, watching and vetting who comes in here along with keeping taxes fair for all is scary is pretty stupid. If Donald Trump is extreme I would of hate to have seen Gore become president. That truly would have been scary.



Taxes being fair for all is a left wing ideology. It also deters investment from those who create the jobs you need. Great, all taxes are fair for everyone, but nobody had a job.


Ugh none of this "job creator" worship. Capitalism needs balance. The erosion of campaign finance laws has allowed the wealthy to inject this job creator bullshit into our politics and take away wealth from the poor.

It was pretty short sighted, they've over reached and people don't react well when they suddenly realize they work themselves to the bone and still can't afford food and rent, never mind medical bills.

Remember why the arab spring happened? It wasn't because they craved freedom from their oppressive regimes. It's because they couldn't afford bread.
 
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:00 am

[quote="TTailedTiger"]Liberals don't really have any room to talk about morality. In NY you can now abort a baby up to the second before giving birth. Some liberal activists were in the streets saying that it doesn't go far enough and that as long as the baby is attached to the umbilical cord that the mother should have the right to kill it.[/quote


Let us stay on topic, the thread is about the scary GOP, not abortion rights.
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WarRI1
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:03 am

Ugh none of this "job creator" worship. Capitalism needs balance. The erosion of campaign finance laws has allowed the wealthy to inject this job creator bullshit into our politics and take away wealth from the poor.

Yes, we are all supposed to worship the job creators, let them control our every moment for a job. Henry Ford once said, I want to pay my workers enough so they can buy my products. What the hell happened to that theory??
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:04 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Liberals don't really have any room to talk about morality. In NY you can now abort a baby up to the second before giving birth. Some liberal activists were in the streets saying that it doesn't go far enough and that as long as the baby is attached to the umbilical cord that the mother should have the right to kill it.


Good god the things you believe are absurd.

It's about being able to do life saving procedures without having the government getting involved and delaying the process until both mother and child die. Partial birth abortions are mostly done as an emergency life saving procedure. Y'all hate government bureaucracy so much yet you don't see how that might be a problem? How would you like to be having a heart attack and needing a court order to proceed with life saving procedures?
 
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:10 am

Jouhou wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Liberals don't really have any room to talk about morality. In NY you can now abort a baby up to the second before giving birth. Some liberal activists were in the streets saying that it doesn't go far enough and that as long as the baby is attached to the umbilical cord that the mother should have the right to kill it.


Good god the things you believe are absurd.

It's about being able to do life saving procedures without having the government getting involved and delaying the process until both mother and child die. Partial birth abortions are mostly done as an emergency life saving procedure. Y'all hate government bureaucracy so much yet you don't see how that might be a problem? How would you like to be having a heart attack and needing a court order to proceed with life saving procedures?


It was my understanding that an abortion necessary to save the life of the mother has always been legal. But in almost all cases an emergency C-section will solve the problem.

And I'm not anti-abortion. But there is never a reason to delay if it's just an inconvenient circumstance you've found yourself in. Get it done the moment you find out you are pregnant. Delaying it while the baby continues to grow is just inexcusable.
 
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DL717
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:14 am

WarRI1 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The GOP has gone from being a family centrist, christian moral base to being ruled by lying racist lunatics. There is little compassion , integrity, insight, or honestly left. What is left, is being drowned out by lowly educated masses floundering about.



I could not agree more, as someone who has admittedly voted Republican in years past, now I would bite my finger off before I would do that again. As someone who holds views that celebrate our freedoms and have all my life defended those values that I was tought to support and respect. I find this man repugnant, a possible traitor and a supporter of destroying our unity that has been paid for in blood and treasure over and over. Not him of course, he had Shin splints.


My gut is regardless what happens to Trump, someone will run against him in a primary and if strong enough, win.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/when-presi ... hallenges/

At this point, the left appears to be headed toward putting up a socialist or an SJW. Easily winnable with the right challenger.
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WarRI1
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:22 am

DL717 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The GOP has gone from being a family centrist, christian moral base to being ruled by lying racist lunatics. There is little compassion , integrity, insight, or honestly left. What is left, is being drowned out by lowly educated masses floundering about.



I could not agree more, as someone who has admittedly voted Republican in years past, now I would bite my finger off before I would do that again. As someone who holds views that celebrate our freedoms and have all my life defended those values that I was tought to support and respect. I find this man repugnant, a possible traitor and a supporter of destroying our unity that has been paid for in blood and treasure over and over. Not him of course, he had Shin splints.


My gut is regardless what happens to Trump, someone will run against him in a primary and if strong enough, win.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/when-presi ... hallenges/



Let us hope so, nobody deserves it more, the chief advocate for being challenged in a Primary when you did not agree with him was this man named in this thread. I do not think it is a proper word, but being Primaried was one of his tactics along with many others in the GOP that Meghan McCain speaks about. Dissent is not allowed., not very Democratic, but very Republican these days.
Last edited by WarRI1 on Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jouhou
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:28 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Liberals don't really have any room to talk about morality. In NY you can now abort a baby up to the second before giving birth. Some liberal activists were in the streets saying that it doesn't go far enough and that as long as the baby is attached to the umbilical cord that the mother should have the right to kill it.


Good god the things you believe are absurd.

It's about being able to do life saving procedures without having the government getting involved and delaying the process until both mother and child die. Partial birth abortions are mostly done as an emergency life saving procedure. Y'all hate government bureaucracy so much yet you don't see how that might be a problem? How would you like to be having a heart attack and needing a court order to proceed with life saving procedures?


It was my understanding that an abortion necessary to save the life of the mother has always been legal. But in almost all cases an emergency C-section will solve the problem.

And I'm not anti-abortion. But there is never a reason to delay if it's just an inconvenient circumstance you've found yourself in. Get it done the moment you find out you are pregnant. Delaying it while the baby continues to grow is just inexcusable.


I would be at extremely high risk of dying if I carried a child to term. A c-section would not solve the problem, it would make it worse. However I'm well aware of it and I'm too traumatized by men to even have sex anymore anyways. But I do take the issue personally because of that. The fact that pregnancy is frequently extremely dangerous is not something I can ignore.

Partial birth abortions are almost just as physically risky, but there's a large amount of issues that could spontaneously arise. If the fetus dies and is not removed immediately it can quickly develop into sepsis. Removing an already dead fetus is still considered an abortion. There are countries that throw up barriers to this kind of abortion and it results in a large increase in maternal mortality rates.
 
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:43 am

Trump and AOC scare the establishment, such as the McCain family. I hear this a lot from 1%ers. My question is, why would 1%ers believe their opinion matters? They are a tiny group. The person way down at 50-60% income percentile chooses election winners. If it hurts the feelings of a rich and privileged woman, no problem. The system wasn’t originally intended to satisfy her. Rich people should make their case to the swing voter.
 
seb146
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:50 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Ugh none of this "job creator" worship. Capitalism needs balance. The erosion of campaign finance laws has allowed the wealthy to inject this job creator bullshit into our politics and take away wealth from the poor.

Yes, we are all supposed to worship the job creators, let them control our every moment for a job. Henry Ford once said, I want to pay my workers enough so they can buy my products. What the hell happened to that theory??


Don't worry about paying workers. Those with the money will provide. Those with the money will create high paying jobs. That is the new theory. Because it has worked so well since 1981.
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:43 am

Trump's political positions might appear "reasonable", in a way that wasn't seen as reasonable before (trade wars anyone ? appeasement with North Korea ?), however his attitude, his inability to tell the truth, as if the concept itself escapes him, is really destroying US politics. Who will ever be trusted after he has left office one way or another ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
KL785
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:25 pm

Flighty wrote:
Trump and AOC scare the establishment, such as the McCain family. I hear this a lot from 1%ers.


Maybe I misunderstood but why on earth should the super rich fear Trump?
 
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:16 pm

Trump talked about draining the swamp, and a few other (rare) times he said things that could be understood as wanting to tilt things back to the citizen instead of corporations. However in practice he has applied the usual "let's tax the rich and big corporations even less than before" failed policy. And appointed billionaires to the government, on top of being one himself, to really drive the point. What will the Trump voter he has fooled do when he realizes his life is no better than before, and worse in some areas (health care) ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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DL717
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:24 pm

Aesma wrote:
Trump talked about draining the swamp, and a few other (rare) times he said things that could be understood as wanting to tilt things back to the citizen instead of corporations. However in practice he has applied the usual "let's tax the rich and big corporations even less than before" failed policy. And appointed billionaires to the government, on top of being one himself, to really drive the point. What will the Trump voter he has fooled do when he realizes his life is no better than before, and worse in some areas (health care) ?


Unemployement rate is at an all time low and household income has jumped. Cutting taxes on corporations and the wealthy is clearly working.

https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... p-economy/
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:41 pm

DL717 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Trump talked about draining the swamp, and a few other (rare) times he said things that could be understood as wanting to tilt things back to the citizen instead of corporations. However in practice he has applied the usual "let's tax the rich and big corporations even less than before" failed policy. And appointed billionaires to the government, on top of being one himself, to really drive the point. What will the Trump voter he has fooled do when he realizes his life is no better than before, and worse in some areas (health care) ?


Unemployement rate is at an all time low and household income has jumped. Cutting taxes on corporations and the wealthy is clearly working.

https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... p-economy/


We were at full employment before they decided to do their poorly timed economic stimulus- we've had labor shortages since 2014 ,2015 where I live. It's gotten so bad a lot of small businesses just shut down because they can't find workers. (Yes, they'd rather shut down than pay higher wages)

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/econom ... ss-n963411
 
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:55 pm

DL717 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Trump talked about draining the swamp, and a few other (rare) times he said things that could be understood as wanting to tilt things back to the citizen instead of corporations. However in practice he has applied the usual "let's tax the rich and big corporations even less than before" failed policy. And appointed billionaires to the government, on top of being one himself, to really drive the point. What will the Trump voter he has fooled do when he realizes his life is no better than before, and worse in some areas (health care) ?


Unemployement rate is at an all time low and household income has jumped. Cutting taxes on corporations and the wealthy is clearly working.

https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... p-economy/


Do that with a reasonable budget deficit then come back to me.
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Francoflier
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:25 pm

DL717 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Trump talked about draining the swamp, and a few other (rare) times he said things that could be understood as wanting to tilt things back to the citizen instead of corporations. However in practice he has applied the usual "let's tax the rich and big corporations even less than before" failed policy. And appointed billionaires to the government, on top of being one himself, to really drive the point. What will the Trump voter he has fooled do when he realizes his life is no better than before, and worse in some areas (health care) ?


Unemployement rate is at an all time low and household income has jumped. Cutting taxes on corporations and the wealthy is clearly working.

https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... p-economy/


Yeah... love your unbiased article: " Overall economic growth is accelerating as well, after years of Obama-induced stagnation."

Lol.

For those who would rather not be fed the bullsh!t propaganda about the so-called miraculous economic results of the Trump administration vs. Obama's, I suggest browsing the actual data over the last 10 years, such as from this website which relays economic indicators:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/indicators

Here is the one for unemployment, for instance (use the 10 year scale)...

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-sta ... yment-rate

The unemployment rate has been decreasing since the end of the GFC. Although its rate of decrease has, well, decreased lately. :scratchchin:

Here is the one for the trade deficit, which shows an interesting difference between the performance of the previous President vs. the incumbent. You know, the 'America first' guy:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-sta ... e-of-trade

Here is the average hourly wage, which shows a constant progression since after the GFC (select the 10 year chart) with no noticeable change in tendency since Trump took office.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wages

All in all, every indicator out there is showing that the US economy has been doing very well since the end of the GFC, and is constantly progressing. I can't really find indications that Trump is doing any better than his predecessor, although some indicators do show signs of volatility and instability since 2016. He is, however, definitely doing worse on trade and he is increasing the deficit.

Can we stop kidding ourselves that Trump is doing well on the economy? All he's managed to do so far is to not mess up the already existing growth.
On the other hand, if he keeps waging trade wars, increasing budget and trade deficit, fighting rate increases, creating long term government shutdowns and massively deregulating, he very well might create a perfect storm in the medium term.
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Flighty
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:18 pm

KL785 wrote:
Flighty wrote:
Trump and AOC scare the establishment, such as the McCain family. I hear this a lot from 1%ers.


Maybe I misunderstood but why on earth should the super rich fear Trump?


The super rich got rich on the old system (Iraq War, mega corporations, tech), so a guy like Trump promising to burn down the established order of things scares them. They believe that their ruling the world is the only positive outcome. Taxes are actually not the most important thing here. Very important, but political control is more important. As Bloomberg if he likes Trump. Ask Zuckerberg.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:30 pm

Oh baby girl that ship sailed years ago. Trump's GOP is the GOP.

Flighty wrote:
KL785 wrote:
Flighty wrote:
Trump and AOC scare the establishment, such as the McCain family. I hear this a lot from 1%ers.


Maybe I misunderstood but why on earth should the super rich fear Trump?


The super rich got rich on the old system (Iraq War, mega corporations, tech), so a guy like Trump promising to burn down the established order of things scares them. They believe that their ruling the world is the only positive outcome. Taxes are actually not the most important thing here. Very important, but political control is more important. As Bloomberg if he likes Trump. Ask Zuckerberg.

Uh...what exactly is different under Trump? Huge tax breaks and astronomical debt + defense spending with a continued promise to slash any remnants of the safety net. The 1% is cashing in.
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CaliAtenza
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:17 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Liberals don't really have any room to talk about morality. In NY you can now abort a baby up to the second before giving birth. Some liberal activists were in the streets saying that it doesn't go far enough and that as long as the baby is attached to the umbilical cord that the mother should have the right to kill it.


Good god the things you believe are absurd.

It's about being able to do life saving procedures without having the government getting involved and delaying the process until both mother and child die. Partial birth abortions are mostly done as an emergency life saving procedure. Y'all hate government bureaucracy so much yet you don't see how that might be a problem? How would you like to be having a heart attack and needing a court order to proceed with life saving procedures?


It was my understanding that an abortion necessary to save the life of the mother has always been legal. But in almost all cases an emergency C-section will solve the problem.

And I'm not anti-abortion. But there is never a reason to delay if it's just an inconvenient circumstance you've found yourself in. Get it done the moment you find out you are pregnant. Delaying it while the baby continues to grow is just inexcusable.


Did you go to medical school?
 
apodino
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:37 pm

If Trump is molding the GOP in his image than the party is going to be in big trouble going forward, which saddens me to death because the policies being pitched by the other side scare the heck out of me. I agree with Meghan on this one. And there are many good people in the Republican Party who know that Trump is making it more difficult for them to pitch a positive message about policy and instead creating a liability for any GOP Politician.

Now since a lot of people raised the Tax Cuts, I thought I would address the deficit with facts. I was doing some research into the actual Revenue coming into the treasury and I found something interesting. Here is the revenue for the last three Fiscal Years. 2016 was Obama's last year, 2017 was Trump's first year in office, and 2018 was the first year that Tax Cuts went into effect

2016: $3.27 Trillion
2017: $3.32 Trillion
2018: $3.34 Trillion

(Source: Thebalance.com)

What this shows is that despite the Trump tax cuts, revenue still increased and the revenue collected in 2018 was a record for the most money ever collected by the Treasury. So if the revenue went up, howcome the deficit also went up? The answer is because spending was increased more than the increase in revenue. A lot of this was a huge increase in Defense spending. But spending on other things increased as well, and the republicans in Congress could have done something about this spending (Which is what they always say they are going to do), but instead allowed Nancy Pelosi in the minority to dictate fiscal policy. This is the issue the Tea Party was founded over, and its the issue the House Freedom Caucus has worked its tail off to solve.

The other reason this is significant is because many democratic politicians are pushing Medicare for All. Which sounds really good, until people realize that the cost would be $4 Trillion. That alone is more than the revenue the treasury is taking in now. The issue then becomes is how do you pay for it without hurting the middle class too much? Yes I know they save on medical bills and the like, but if you try to tax the wealthy and the corporations they will either pass it on to the middle class, or send the money overseas leaving less of their money taxed. If a democratic candidate figures this out, they will be hard to beat. But it seems unlikely based on the math.


One last thing. There has been talk about the role of the federal reserve. Current policy is to manipulate interest rates to either stimulate growth or fight inflation. What if instead of the Fed doing this with interest rates, why cant congress do it with tax rates. Higher taxes when the economy is good to help fight inflation, and lower taxes when its bad to stimulate growth?
 
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:05 pm

apodino wrote:
If Trump is molding the GOP in his image than the party is going to be in big trouble going forward, which saddens me to death because the policies being pitched by the other side scare the heck out of me. I agree with Meghan on this one. And there are many good people in the Republican Party who know that Trump is making it more difficult for them to pitch a positive message about policy and instead creating a liability for any GOP Politician.

Now since a lot of people raised the Tax Cuts, I thought I would address the deficit with facts. I was doing some research into the actual Revenue coming into the treasury and I found something interesting. Here is the revenue for the last three Fiscal Years. 2016 was Obama's last year, 2017 was Trump's first year in office, and 2018 was the first year that Tax Cuts went into effect

2016: $3.27 Trillion
2017: $3.32 Trillion
2018: $3.34 Trillion

(Source: Thebalance.com)

What this shows is that despite the Trump tax cuts, revenue still increased and the revenue collected in 2018 was a record for the most money ever collected by the Treasury. So if the revenue went up, howcome the deficit also went up? The answer is because spending was increased more than the increase in revenue. A lot of this was a huge increase in Defense spending. But spending on other things increased as well, and the republicans in Congress could have done something about this spending (Which is what they always say they are going to do), but instead allowed Nancy Pelosi in the minority to dictate fiscal policy. This is the issue the Tea Party was founded over, and its the issue the House Freedom Caucus has worked its tail off to solve.

The other reason this is significant is because many democratic politicians are pushing Medicare for All. Which sounds really good, until people realize that the cost would be $4 Trillion. That alone is more than the revenue the treasury is taking in now. The issue then becomes is how do you pay for it without hurting the middle class too much? Yes I know they save on medical bills and the like, but if you try to tax the wealthy and the corporations they will either pass it on to the middle class, or send the money overseas leaving less of their money taxed. If a democratic candidate figures this out, they will be hard to beat. But it seems unlikely based on the math.


One last thing. There has been talk about the role of the federal reserve. Current policy is to manipulate interest rates to either stimulate growth or fight inflation. What if instead of the Fed doing this with interest rates, why cant congress do it with tax rates. Higher taxes when the economy is good to help fight inflation, and lower taxes when its bad to stimulate growth?



This kind of feels like it needs it's own thread, but the October 2017 Unemployment rate was 4.1% The October 2018 Unemployment rate was 3.7%. So for such a drop in unemployment, Revenue did not come in where predicted.

2019 has a high prediction of 3.42 Trillion, but that pails in comparison to the 4.3 Trillion the Government is supposed to spend.

The Government is letting off the gas as the economy is hitting it's most productive rates, and by cutting taxes, they are only fueling the current deficit spending that is happening due to inflationary spending.


Medicare for all

4 Trillion a year for medicare for all a bit of a stretch from all analysis that I have seen, 32 Trillion is one extreme measure, and even that is using inflation over 10 years. The real question is whether it is cheaper than the current 3.4 Trillion a year everyone is paying in the US already?

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/heres-h ... -care.html
Currently, Americans pay $3.4 trillion a year for medical care

It was also more than twice the per capita average of other developed nations, but still, in 2015, experts predicted continued sharp increases: “Health care spending per person is expected to surpass $10,000 in 2016 and then march steadily higher to $14,944 in 2023.”

Indeed, average annual costs per person hit $10,345 in 2016. In 1960, the average cost per person was only $146 — and, adjusting for inflation, that means costs are nine times higher now than they were then
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seb146
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:33 pm

Since the 1960s, the Republican party has become the party of white, heterosexual evangelical "Christians" with a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude. It accelerated in the late 1990s when Republicans, led by thrice married Newt Gingrich, were up in arms that Bill Clinton cheated on Hillary. They keep saying how much they love people and family and small business and culture but do everything in their power to make sure families, people, small business and different cultures are shut down.

We can't have Medicare for all because it will cost $4 trillion but they fail to take into account how much people will pay into it. We can't have Social Security because it is an entitlement. An entitlement that we all pay into. We can't have safe, legal abortion as a choice because they decide it is immoral. We can't have gays marry or transgender people in the military because of morality.

This is the modern Republican party. Do as I say, not as I do. He who has the gold makes the rules.
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:57 pm

seb146 wrote:
Since the 1960s, the Republican party has become the party of white, heterosexual evangelical "Christians" with a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude. It accelerated in the late 1990s when Republicans, led by thrice married Newt Gingrich, were up in arms that Bill Clinton cheated on Hillary. They keep saying how much they love people and family and small business and culture but do everything in their power to make sure families, people, small business and different cultures are shut down.

We can't have Medicare for all because it will cost $4 trillion but they fail to take into account how much people will pay into it. We can't have Social Security because it is an entitlement. An entitlement that we all pay into. We can't have safe, legal abortion as a choice because they decide it is immoral. We can't have gays marry or transgender people in the military because of morality.

This is the modern Republican party. Do as I say, not as I do. He who has the gold makes the rules.


...until the people are fed up and chop the heads off those "that have the gold" on a guillotine.
 
apodino
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:15 pm

seb146 wrote:
Since the 1960s, the Republican party has become the party of white, heterosexual evangelical "Christians" with a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude. It accelerated in the late 1990s when Republicans, led by thrice married Newt Gingrich, were up in arms that Bill Clinton cheated on Hillary. They keep saying how much they love people and family and small business and culture but do everything in their power to make sure families, people, small business and different cultures are shut down.


Newt Gingrich is a hypocrite plain and simple. But both sides are hypocrites, and I could provide many examples of such. I don't agree with your last sentence though.

we can't have Medicare for all because it will cost $4 trillion but they fail to take into account how much people will pay into it.

How much people will pay into it is exactly what people are taking into account on this issue and that is the problem. Many on the Right and even establishment democrats are taking this into account. Why do you think states like California or Oregon which have one party control of all facets of government haven't adopted single payer at the state level?

We can't have Social Security because it is an entitlement. An entitlement that we all pay into.


The issue we as a country are going to face going forward is that Social Security works by having people pay into a trust fund with payroll taxes of working people, and then paying those benefits out to retired folks. In the private sector, when old investors are paid out with new investors money, it is called a Ponzi Scheme and is against the law. A man named Bernie Madoff is behind bars for life for running such a scheme. Yet its perfectly legal for the government to do it. I know I am going to get paid out in my retirement based on what I put in. Here is my personal problem with that. As an investor, I could get a better rate of return if the money I put into the trust fund was instead put into even a low interest savings account. But yet I am not allowed to do it because the law says I have to do it the government's way. Social Security worked well during the baby boom generation because there were enough babies being born to pay into the fund. Now that people are having less babies, and we may be below replacement rate, in which case more money is being paid out than is coming in. That is a problem, and to save Social Security, it needs to be addressed. Otherwise the effects on Social Security will be far far worse in the future than what would happen if we reformed the program now.

We can't have safe, legal abortion as a choice because they decide it is immoral.


People who are pro life will argue that there is no such thing as a safe abortion since without exception abortion always results in the loss of human life. And here is the thing. Despite what pro-choice people claim, more women are against abortion than men, and I know far more pro-life women than I do pro-choice women. Furthermore, I know very few of these women through church, and of my secular friends, more secular women I know are pro life and more religious women are pro-choice. Also, nearly 1 third of registered democratic voters identify as pro-life. Regardless of how you feel on other issues, democrats would win a lot more elections if they ran more pro-life candidates. If women are split 50/50 on this issue, and I think the split is this close, how can one side claim that something is good for women when half of women don't even agree that its good?


We can't have gays marry or transgender people in the military because of morality.


Gay Marriage depends on what your definition of marriage is. Modern thinking looks at marriage as nothing more than a binding contract. If that is your definition, there is no reason that two men or two women cant enter into such an agreement. A lot of people don't view marriage as a simple contract, but a life long commitment centered around the conjugal act (sexual intercourse). In other words, no conjugal act, no marriage. Since these people believe that because the conjugal act requires a Penis and a Vagina, a union of two men or two women in this way is just not possible. Personally, I didn't like the supreme court getting involved in this, as this is something that the legislative process should have handled, and I think that a bill defining marriage as a contract between two consenting adults regardless of gender would easily pass today without the courts getting involved. Because this changed happened via the courts, and there are questions about the interpretation of current law, the courts themselves have now become politicized and by relying on the courts to uphold these rights without passing a bill etching them in stone, congress has now left the law open for a new court to interpret the law differently.

As for the transgender people in the military. I have no issues who serves in the military regardless of Race, Gender, Sexuality, etc. The one issue I see here is hormonal therapy is normally given to Transgendered patients since their bodies wont produce the appropriate sex horomones naturally. The question is, what medical effect does this therapy and treatment have on a soldier? If its a medical effect that would have a detrimental effect on their ability to serve, then I can see this. Otherwise, having never served myself, I don't know what is right. I hear a lot about the negative effect it would have on soliders being used for social experiments. I really don't know what to think. I lean more toward letting them serve.



This is the modern Republican party and the modern Democratic Party. Do as I say, not as I do. He who has the gold makes the rules.


Fixed it for you. And what you say is true of both parties. But I would make this argument. The establishment had the gold and didnt want Donald Trump to be nominated, but he was anyways. They also didnt want Bernie, and he gave Hillary a run for her money in the primary. I think the tide is slowly changing on this in both parties. Either that will be good long term, or it will push both parties further apart and less will get done in the future.
 
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:36 pm

Disclaimer on last post. They in no way reflect my personal views on Gay Marriage or the abortion issue. I was merely trying to illustrate what the counter argument is. I do not hate gay people at all and have many gay friends, as I do people on both sides of the abortion debate.
 
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:48 pm

Meghan McCain is the most pretentious wanna-be personality on television.

I care nothing for any "position" she takes.

She is a talent-less hack.

I gag watching her on The View, which I only do rarely.

She is unwatchable.

She is a RINO.

Seems right that she would give comfort to the Left.

I'd rather see Ann Coulter on The View hurling the sh*t right back at the pious Libs on that show.
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:28 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Liberals don't really have any room to talk about morality. In NY you can now abort a baby up to the second before giving birth. Some liberal activists were in the streets saying that it doesn't go far enough and that as long as the baby is attached to the umbilical cord that the mother should have the right to kill it.


Posts like this are why I want to run as a Republican Senator. I say that without a trace of irony. You will believe literally anything you're fed on facebook or infowhores, or where ever.


TTailedTiger wrote:

And I'm not anti-abortion.


But you sure are anti fact - checking...

From the links...
Unsurprisingly, the rumors about New York state’s purported expansion of abortion law shocked and angered many readers, but they didn’t align with the reality of any bill actually passed by the New York legislature.

What's False
The law does not allow for unrestricted abortion up through the normal term of pregnancy.



Jouhou wrote:
Partial birth abortions are almost just as physically risky, but there's a large amount of issues that could spontaneously arise. If the fetus dies and is not removed immediately it can quickly develop into sepsis. Removing an already dead fetus is still considered an abortion. There are countries that throw up barriers to this kind of abortion and it results in a large increase in maternal mortality rates.


This. As well, there seems to be this idea floating around that there are just tons of MDs waiting around to carve up babies all over the place. The absurdity of the notion that this can happen for something less than a medical demand is beyond remarkable.

CaliAtenza wrote:
Did you go to medical school?


No need to involve the Medical Establishment. The decision to terminate a pregnancy is a sacred province shared by a woman's father, her clergy and the man who knocked her up.


DIRECTFLT wrote:
Meghan McCain is the most pretentious wanna-be personality on television.

I care nothing for any "position" she takes.


Well... Thanks for taking the time to tell us all?

DIRECTFLT wrote:
She is a talent-less hack.


K. Shouldn't that mean you like her?
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:42 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Liberals don't really have any room to talk about morality. In NY you can now abort a baby up to the second before giving birth. Some liberal activists were in the streets saying that it doesn't go far enough and that as long as the baby is attached to the umbilical cord that the mother should have the right to kill it.


Posts like this are why I want to run as a Republican Senator. I say that without a trace of irony. You will believe literally anything you're fed on facebook or infowhores, or where ever.


TTailedTiger wrote:

And I'm not anti-abortion.


But you sure are anti fact - checking...

From the links...
Unsurprisingly, the rumors about New York state’s purported expansion of abortion law shocked and angered many readers, but they didn’t align with the reality of any bill actually passed by the New York legislature.

What's False
The law does not allow for unrestricted abortion up through the normal term of pregnancy.



Jouhou wrote:
Partial birth abortions are almost just as physically risky, but there's a large amount of issues that could spontaneously arise. If the fetus dies and is not removed immediately it can quickly develop into sepsis. Removing an already dead fetus is still considered an abortion. There are countries that throw up barriers to this kind of abortion and it results in a large increase in maternal mortality rates.


This. As well, there seems to be this idea floating around that there are just tons of MDs waiting around to carve up babies all over the place. The absurdity of the notion that this can happen for something less than a medical demand is beyond remarkable.

CaliAtenza wrote:
Did you go to medical school?


No need to involve the Medical Establishment. The decision to terminate a pregnancy is a sacred province shared by a woman's father, her clergy and the man who knocked her up.


DIRECTFLT wrote:
Meghan McCain is the most pretentious wanna-be personality on television.

I care nothing for any "position" she takes.


Well... Thanks for taking the time to tell us all?

DIRECTFLT wrote:
She is a talent-less hack.


K. Shouldn't that mean you like her?


I bet you are a big fan of Dr Kermit Gosnell. How can you say that there are no doctors waiting around to terminate viable pregnancies? There most certainly are.
 
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:56 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
I bet you are a big fan of Dr Kermit Gosnell. How can you say that there are no doctors waiting around to terminate viable pregnancies? There most certainly are.


You want to play that game, huh? I guess any one with a semi automatic pistol is a big fan of James Eagan Holmes then.

Seriously though, you really had to dig for that one.
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seb146
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:02 am

apodino wrote:
seb146 wrote:
This is the modern Republican party and the modern Democratic Party. Do as I say, not as I do. He who has the gold makes the rules.


Fixed it for you. And what you say is true of both parties. But I would make this argument. The establishment had the gold and didnt want Donald Trump to be nominated, but he was anyways. They also didnt want Bernie, and he gave Hillary a run for her money in the primary. I think the tide is slowly changing on this in both parties. Either that will be good long term, or it will push both parties further apart and less will get done in the future.


I was actually respecting you until you pulled this childish stunt. I don't need Republicans telling me what I think and changing my opinion to fit their narrative.
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MSPNWA
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:12 am

Well, Meghan, many in this country were scared of the McCain GOP. The McCain GOP was a RINO group in favor of oppressive government, America-last, open borders, endless war, etc. Hence you were voted out of power.

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
But you sure are anti fact - checking...


Use credible sources, please. Not known liars.
 
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:13 am

seb146 wrote:
apodino wrote:
seb146 wrote:
This is the modern Republican party and the modern Democratic Party. Do as I say, not as I do. He who has the gold makes the rules.


Fixed it for you. And what you say is true of both parties. But I would make this argument. The establishment had the gold and didnt want Donald Trump to be nominated, but he was anyways. They also didnt want Bernie, and he gave Hillary a run for her money in the primary. I think the tide is slowly changing on this in both parties. Either that will be good long term, or it will push both parties further apart and less will get done in the future.


I was actually respecting you until you pulled this childish stunt. I don't need Republicans telling me what I think and changing my opinion to fit their narrative.

Just FYI I am not a republican and I italicized the quote to make it clear you didnt say it. I am not trying to tell you what to think at all.

I did vote for several democrats in the last Election FYI. For example, given the threat that climate change poses, I find it insane that we should elect a republican to the office of Texas Railroad Commisioner for example.
 
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:17 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I bet you are a big fan of Dr Kermit Gosnell. How can you say that there are no doctors waiting around to terminate viable pregnancies? There most certainly are.


You want to play that game, huh? I guess any one with a semi automatic pistol is a big fan of James Eagan Holmes then.

Seriously though, you really had to dig for that one.


I don't support Holmes and I believe there should be reasonable restrictions on firearms.

I notice you didn't condemn Gosnell...
 
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:28 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Well, Meghan, many in this country were scared of the McCain GOP. The McCain GOP was a RINO group in favor of oppressive government, America-last, open borders, endless war, etc. Hence you were voted out of power.

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
But you sure are anti fact - checking...


Use credible sources, please. Not known liars.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Lately your posts are always making me laugh at the lunacy they present.


TTailedTiger wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I bet you are a big fan of Dr Kermit Gosnell. How can you say that there are no doctors waiting around to terminate viable pregnancies? There most certainly are.


You want to play that game, huh? I guess any one with a semi automatic pistol is a big fan of James Eagan Holmes then.

Seriously though, you really had to dig for that one.


I don't support Holmes and I believe there should be reasonable restrictions on firearms.

I notice you didn't condemn Gosnell...

Now come on, you are making quite the jump. He certainly also did not in any way endorse or imply he was endorsing Gosnell. So why make such a comment?

Tugg
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seb146
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:01 am

apodino wrote:
seb146 wrote:
apodino wrote:

Fixed it for you. And what you say is true of both parties. But I would make this argument. The establishment had the gold and didnt want Donald Trump to be nominated, but he was anyways. They also didnt want Bernie, and he gave Hillary a run for her money in the primary. I think the tide is slowly changing on this in both parties. Either that will be good long term, or it will push both parties further apart and less will get done in the future.


I was actually respecting you until you pulled this childish stunt. I don't need Republicans telling me what I think and changing my opinion to fit their narrative.

Just FYI I am not a republican and I italicized the quote to make it clear you didnt say it. I am not trying to tell you what to think at all.

I did vote for several democrats in the last Election FYI. For example, given the threat that climate change poses, I find it insane that we should elect a republican to the office of Texas Railroad Commisioner for example.


I had a point by point response but the site thought it was a virus or something.

Anyway, everyone who receives a pay check pays into Social Security. If Republicans would leave it alone, it would be solvent. But, instead, they love the idea of pensions being taken away from everyone and us all working until we die. Which would be sooner than later thanks to Republicans not wanting affordable health care.

Abortion is not the choice for everyone. The common misconception by Republicans is that Democrats was all abortions all the time. Which is not true at all. If a couple decides to carry a pregnancy to term, even with the thought of death, that should be their choice. If a couple decides to end the pregnancy, that should be their choice. It is a difficult one, but there should be a choice.

And what's with Republicans not thinking women are smart enough to make decisions about their bodies?

It was Republicans who were crying and screaming about sanctity of marriage and how marriage is sacred between one man and one woman. No irony at all. Why is it such a concern if two men or two women decide to sign legal documents and have a party?

It was Republicans who were crying and screaming about sexual assault by transgender people. It was not true, but they have to keep their base scared.

Republicans appointed themselves morality police and the party of Christianity. None of the leadership are moral or Christian.
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:07 am

MSPNWA wrote:

Use credible sources, please. Not known liars.


I did. The fact that you feel the way you do makes my first point. You guys will buy into anything that fits your story, there. Why on earth I'm not taking money from you all is at least a half serious question for me now.

TTailedTiger wrote:


I notice you didn't condemn Gosnell...


No, you didn't. I didn't have to, is what you also missed. That's part of the benefit of not being an extremist. These things are understood already. But you can see more below...

Tugger wrote:
He certainly also did not in any way endorse or imply he was endorsing Gosnell. So why make such a comment?

Tugg


What my takeaway from that is is somewhere between amusing and concerning (I'll bet the Germans have a word for that). Perfectly normal and rational assumptions? We'll question those all day. A ridiculous fantasy involving nefarious women and the liberal baby-killers? That must be true, without need of further investigation!
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MaverickM11
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:49 pm

CaliAtenza wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Good god the things you believe are absurd.

It's about being able to do life saving procedures without having the government getting involved and delaying the process until both mother and child die. Partial birth abortions are mostly done as an emergency life saving procedure. Y'all hate government bureaucracy so much yet you don't see how that might be a problem? How would you like to be having a heart attack and needing a court order to proceed with life saving procedures?


It was my understanding that an abortion necessary to save the life of the mother has always been legal. But in almost all cases an emergency C-section will solve the problem.

And I'm not anti-abortion. But there is never a reason to delay if it's just an inconvenient circumstance you've found yourself in. Get it done the moment you find out you are pregnant. Delaying it while the baby continues to grow is just inexcusable.


Did you go to medical school?

LOL I think you meant "did you graduate high school"?
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:31 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
This. As well, there seems to be this idea floating around that there are just tons of MDs waiting around to carve up babies all over the place. The absurdity of the notion that this can happen for something less than a medical demand is beyond remarkable.
:checkmark:
I wish I could dig up an article I read a couple years ago from a woman who went through a late term abortion. The amount of misinformation on the subject is astounding. She spoke of how the decision was agonizing, that it brought her great pain and even shame, but that it was either the baby's life or her own, and she chose her own. She also spoke of how her OB/GYN remarked that performing abortion was the most heart-wrenching thing he had to do in his multi-decade career. NO ONE goes into late term abortion lightly. It's a necessary procedure undertaken to save a person's life. The end.
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casinterest
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:42 pm

OA412 wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
This. As well, there seems to be this idea floating around that there are just tons of MDs waiting around to carve up babies all over the place. The absurdity of the notion that this can happen for something less than a medical demand is beyond remarkable.
:checkmark:
I wish I could dig up an article I read a couple years ago from a woman who went through a late term abortion. The amount of misinformation on the subject is astounding. She spoke of how the decision was agonizing, that it brought her great pain and even shame, but that it was either the baby's life or her own, and she chose her own. She also spoke of how her OB/GYN remarked that performing abortion was the most heart-wrenching thing he had to do in his multi-decade career. NO ONE goes into late term abortion lightly. It's a necessary procedure undertaken to save a person's life. The end.



Here is an article with some twitter quotes from a doctor about these abortions. The one example she could think of where a medical emergency was not in play was a case that was tied up in courts for too long after a brother raped his sister.

https://www.someecards.com/news/news/do ... abortions/
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Re: Meghan McCain, trumps GOP scares me

Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:44 am

casinterest wrote:
OA412 wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
This. As well, there seems to be this idea floating around that there are just tons of MDs waiting around to carve up babies all over the place. The absurdity of the notion that this can happen for something less than a medical demand is beyond remarkable.
:checkmark:
I wish I could dig up an article I read a couple years ago from a woman who went through a late term abortion. The amount of misinformation on the subject is astounding. She spoke of how the decision was agonizing, that it brought her great pain and even shame, but that it was either the baby's life or her own, and she chose her own. She also spoke of how her OB/GYN remarked that performing abortion was the most heart-wrenching thing he had to do in his multi-decade career. NO ONE goes into late term abortion lightly. It's a necessary procedure undertaken to save a person's life. The end.



Here is an article with some twitter quotes from a doctor about these abortions. The one example she could think of where a medical emergency was not in play was a case that was tied up in courts for too long after a brother raped his sister.

https://www.someecards.com/news/news/do ... abortions/


So I read your link. I have to admit, it's not a light read, but it does square with what else I've seen on the subject. What honestly scares me more than a lot is what women in red states and other garbage places run by anti-choicers must have to deal with. Especially if they're poor. These are real people in real life threatening situations. One almost has to wonder how many completely avoidable fatalities result from this.

Anyway, where I live is expensive as all hell, on of the few places on Earth where the traffic actually lives up to the reputation and probably has about a dozen other inconveniences along with. But maybe it's just because I have daughters and significant others here, but I will never take this place for granted. Not so long as we're one of the few places that treat women as equals in the US. Especially in medical matters.

Sure, we can (and will with time) always do better, but I shudder to think what some woman in Alabama or Texas with an in situ Triploidy Fetus, religious family and nineteen dollars to her name must be going through.

Getting off the soapbox now.


Anyroad, yeah. There really only are two sort of people who have a problem with these procedures being available to the women that need them.

People who are just naturally misogynistic and those that have no idea what they're talking about. At a younger age, I'd have given benefit of doubt and allowed that most of these people were the latter. But lately, with the rhetoric we're seeing from our resident reactionaries (not limited to here, of course), it's clear that there are a lot of the former as well.
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