Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
trpmb6 wrote:School or daycare?I've had a couple nasty cold's this winter. And possibly a type of norovirus (hard to say, but symptoms were similar). This despite having gotten the flu shot. Is what it is. I blame my young kids who visit the proverbial brew house of sickness daily.
Dieuwer wrote:So I got a flu shot and guess what. I 'm not sick from the flu but from a cold (different virus)!
DUH...
So why is there no vaccine against the common cold virus?
GalaxyFlyer wrote:Because there are several dozen different cold viruses from what my doctor says. Pretty hard to vaccinate against 30 viruses.
The flu shot is only a good guess as to the prevalent flu virus for the year.
GF
cledaybuck wrote:trpmb6 wrote:School or daycare?I've had a couple nasty cold's this winter. And possibly a type of norovirus (hard to say, but symptoms were similar). This despite having gotten the flu shot. Is what it is. I blame my young kids who visit the proverbial brew house of sickness daily.
trpmb6 wrote:cledaybuck wrote:trpmb6 wrote:School or daycare?I've had a couple nasty cold's this winter. And possibly a type of norovirus (hard to say, but symptoms were similar). This despite having gotten the flu shot. Is what it is. I blame my young kids who visit the proverbial brew house of sickness daily.
Daycare for now. Hopefully by time they are school age they will have the immunity of a god.
trpmb6 wrote:Took my son until about second grade before he stopped getting sick a lot. Of course, he still went to daycare after school.cledaybuck wrote:trpmb6 wrote:School or daycare?I've had a couple nasty cold's this winter. And possibly a type of norovirus (hard to say, but symptoms were similar). This despite having gotten the flu shot. Is what it is. I blame my young kids who visit the proverbial brew house of sickness daily.
Daycare for now. Hopefully by time they are school age they will have the immunity of a god.
Dieuwer wrote:So why is there no vaccine against the common cold virus?
trpmb6 wrote:Daycare for now. Hopefully by time they are school age they will have the immunity of a god.
Dieuwer wrote:On a separate note, would you suggest to definitely get a deviated septum "repaired"? Anyone got it done?
Dieuwer wrote:So I got a flu shot and guess what. I 'm not sick from the flu but from a cold (different virus)!
DUH...
So why is there no vaccine against the common cold virus?
DocLightning wrote:Dieuwer wrote:So I got a flu shot and guess what. I 'm not sick from the flu but from a cold (different virus)!
DUH...
So why is there no vaccine against the common cold virus?
An excellent question.
1) There is an array of respiratory viruses that can cause the syndrome known as the "common cold" (acute upper respiratory infection, or URI). These include the rhinovirus (cause of ~60% of cases), which is a picornavirus reclassified under the genus enteroviridae in 2007. Other common viruses are the parainfluenza virus (which is not the same as influenza), adenovirus, coronavirus, and more recently a new type of respiratory enterovirus seems to be circulating during autumn in North America. All in all, there are over 200 individual subtypes of virii that cause the common cold. Even closely-related serotypes do not provide cross-protection with their immune responses. With that many different viruses, it would be difficult to come up with a single vaccine that offers immunity to all of them. Moreover, these viruses are mostly RNA viruses and thus are prone to rapid mutation.
2) The common cold is by and large a self-limited and minor illness that does not cause a large amount of loss of business or school attendance, so limited research resources are diverted at more serious diseases. That said, there is ongoing research into this problem.
3) Many of the virii that cause the common cold do not actually enter the body and thus are somewhat resistance to classical immune mechanisms. Any such immunization would have to be given as a live attenuated virus administered intranasally (in the nose), rather than as an injection. This would make the immunization unavailable to immunocompromised patients, who are the group at greatest risk for serious complications from URI.
trpmb6 wrote:Dieuwer wrote:On a separate note, would you suggest to definitely get a deviated septum "repaired"? Anyone got it done?
Repairing a deviated septum can bring significant sinus relief and relieve you of many cold symptoms.
If you know you have a deviated septum, definitely get it fixed.
Edit, if you know you have one, because it's been pointed out by a doctor I should say. Especially if it's having an obvious affect on your breathing.
Cadet985 wrote:I’m probably going to get flamed for this, but here goes.
My grandfather worked on the Manhattan Project. One day, he reported for duty feeling really sick. His superior told him to report to the physician. So he goes. Cold, fever, stomachache, cough...the whole nine yards. He was given one pill. Never found out what the pill was or what was in it, but his symptoms were gone within hours.
He went to his grave convinced that there IS a cure for the cold, and the government is in cahoots with big pharma to keep it secret.
trpmb6 wrote:
Daycare for now. Hopefully by time they are school age they will have the immunity of a god.
DocLightning wrote:Cadet985 wrote:I’m probably going to get flamed for this, but here goes.
My grandfather worked on the Manhattan Project. One day, he reported for duty feeling really sick. His superior told him to report to the physician. So he goes. Cold, fever, stomachache, cough...the whole nine yards. He was given one pill. Never found out what the pill was or what was in it, but his symptoms were gone within hours.
He went to his grave convinced that there IS a cure for the cold, and the government is in cahoots with big pharma to keep it secret.
Why would this conspiracy work? Do you know how fantastically wealthy the first company to market a cure to the common cold would be?
The fact is that in order to develop such a medicine, there would have to be a drug that somehow stops *all* the cold viruses from replicating. It would need to be spectacularly safe (because colds are not normally dangerous) and it would need to be well absorbed from the GI tract. It would cost billions in investment to a pharmaceutical company and it would shorten the duration of the illness by...a day?
The trouble with your grandfather's story is that even if I had a magic wand that could eradicate the virus instantly, it would still be days for the symptoms to subside as the residual inflammation and tissue damage need to be cleaned up and then all the mucus needs to be expelled.
Cadet985 wrote:I’m glad you mentioned pharmaceutical companies. They’d lose an untold amount of money. They would have a much harder time influencing politics. A cure for the common cold would cause far fewer doctor visits. I can’t argue any of the science you posted. You’re far more educated than I’ll ever be; I have a pain, I have to google it.
DocLightning wrote:Cadet985 wrote:I’m probably going to get flamed for this, but here goes.
My grandfather worked on the Manhattan Project. One day, he reported for duty feeling really sick. His superior told him to report to the physician. So he goes. Cold, fever, stomachache, cough...the whole nine yards. He was given one pill. Never found out what the pill was or what was in it, but his symptoms were gone within hours.
He went to his grave convinced that there IS a cure for the cold, and the government is in cahoots with big pharma to keep it secret.
Why would this conspiracy work? Do you know how fantastically wealthy the first company to market a cure to the common cold would be?
The fact is that in order to develop such a medicine, there would have to be a drug that somehow stops *all* the cold viruses from replicating. It would need to be spectacularly safe (because colds are not normally dangerous) and it would need to be well absorbed from the GI tract. It would cost billions in investment to a pharmaceutical company and it would shorten the duration of the illness by...a day?
The trouble with your grandfather's story is that even if I had a magic wand that could eradicate the virus instantly, it would still be days for the symptoms to subside as the residual inflammation and tissue damage need to be cleaned up and then all the mucus needs to be expelled.
Cadet985 wrote:He was given one pill. Never found out what the pill was or what was in it, but his symptoms were gone within hours.
casinterest wrote:bad news everyone.
That flu shot some of us got is less than 50% effective this year .
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/14/health/f ... index.html
aviationaware wrote:I got a flu shot once. It is an overrated experience. If you are young and healthy you don't need one, anyone telling you differently is a very panicky individual.
DocLightning wrote:aviationaware wrote:I got a flu shot once. It is an overrated experience. If you are young and healthy you don't need one, anyone telling you differently is a very panicky individual.
...or a Board-Certified Pediatrician with two degrees in Molecular Biology who was the TA for the Molecular Virology course at Stanford.
aviationaware wrote:DocLightning wrote:aviationaware wrote:I got a flu shot once. It is an overrated experience. If you are young and healthy you don't need one, anyone telling you differently is a very panicky individual.
...or a Board-Certified Pediatrician with two degrees in Molecular Biology who was the TA for the Molecular Virology course at Stanford.
Well by young I didn't mean child. Should have been more specific. Let's say anyone in the 15-49 group without serious immune deficits doesn't need one.
DocLightning wrote:aviationaware wrote:DocLightning wrote:
...or a Board-Certified Pediatrician with two degrees in Molecular Biology who was the TA for the Molecular Virology course at Stanford.
Well by young I didn't mean child. Should have been more specific. Let's say anyone in the 15-49 group without serious immune deficits doesn't need one.
I disagree. I recommend them for anyone 6mo+.
This year's virus is an H1N1 influenza A. It tends to attack young healthy people worse than those with weaker immune systems because it is the immune response that actually causes the symptoms.
DocLightning wrote:casinterest wrote:bad news everyone.
That flu shot some of us got is less than 50% effective this year .
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/14/health/f ... index.html
I think those numbers need to be looked with some nuance. If you're under 50, it's still quite effective at 55-60%. The high-dose trivalent immunization is working at about 40% in older adults, and that wasn't pooled in the recent CDC data. But more important than preventing infection, the shot also prevents severe disease.
Last year, with its lousy immunization, 90% of kids who died of influenza were unvaccinated.
My experience this year is that my patients who got their flu shots and then eventually get the flu are sick for three or four days. Patients who didn't get it are sick for two weeks.aviationaware wrote:I got a flu shot once. It is an overrated experience. If you are young and healthy you don't need one, anyone telling you differently is a very panicky individual.
...or a Board-Certified Pediatrician with two degrees in Molecular Biology who was the TA for the Molecular Virology course at Stanford.
DocLightning wrote:I recommend them for anyone 6mo+.
aviationaware wrote:DocLightning wrote:aviationaware wrote:I got a flu shot once. It is an overrated experience. If you are young and healthy you don't need one, anyone telling you differently is a very panicky individual.
...or a Board-Certified Pediatrician with two degrees in Molecular Biology who was the TA for the Molecular Virology course at Stanford.
Well by young I didn't mean child. Should have been more specific. Let's say anyone in the 15-49 group without serious immune deficits doesn't need one.
Jouhou wrote:H3N2 is dominating in the US southeast, likely dragging down the vaccine effectiveness estimate for the year. Also Nebraska is seeing mostly H3N2. Everywhere else it's H1N1 closely matching the vaccine strain.
DocLightning wrote:Jouhou wrote:H3N2 is dominating in the US southeast, likely dragging down the vaccine effectiveness estimate for the year. Also Nebraska is seeing mostly H3N2. Everywhere else it's H1N1 closely matching the vaccine strain.
I had not heard this. H3N2 is accounting for 20-30% of cases nationally. I wasn't aware that there was a geographic concentration. Where did you get this info? I'm always looking for ways to follow the season.
DocLightning wrote:Cadet985 wrote:I’m glad you mentioned pharmaceutical companies. They’d lose an untold amount of money. They would have a much harder time influencing politics. A cure for the common cold would cause far fewer doctor visits. I can’t argue any of the science you posted. You’re far more educated than I’ll ever be; I have a pain, I have to google it.
1) It would not decrease doctor visits because people would go to the doctor to get the prescription (you think they woulld make this OTC?)
2) Pharmaceutical companies don't make money off of people going to the doctor. They make money off of selling pharmaceuticals.
3) I promise you the government is not hiding a cure for the common cold from the masses. I have three degrees in Biology/Medicine and I have a very good handle on what humanity does and doesn't know.
Redd wrote:Most people I know who'd gotten a flu shot got the flu right after. My trick is just not to get sick, eating healthy & exercise + winter outdoor exercise builds resistance and a healthy immune system. No need for the flu shot, your body already has everything it needs to take care of a cold or flu if you take care of it.
I don't understand why so many people ignore building up their immune system, maybe there isn't enough doctors who have a clue about it? Or just make $$ on medication and flu shots!
Jouhou wrote:After actually reading through this week's cdc report,
A.) They made a typo "subclade 3C.2a1 (n=109) or clade 3C.3a (n=138)" I'm pretty sure clade 3C.3a should be 109, 3C.2a1 should be 138. This can be seen in the visualization below. I'd be pretty damn worried if it is as written...
Redd wrote:Most people I know who'd gotten a flu shot got the flu right after. My trick is just not to get sick, eating healthy & exercise + winter outdoor exercise builds resistance and a healthy immune system. No need for the flu shot, your body already has everything it needs to take care of a cold or flu if you take care of it.
DocLightning wrote:Jouhou wrote:After actually reading through this week's cdc report,
A.) They made a typo "subclade 3C.2a1 (n=109) or clade 3C.3a (n=138)" I'm pretty sure clade 3C.3a should be 109, 3C.2a1 should be 138. This can be seen in the visualization below. I'd be pretty damn worried if it is as written...
Oooh, good catch! Yeah, around here it's all H1N1 type A, so we're sitting pretty. Fortunately, the A part of the season is drawing to a close and the B part of the season is coming. B is less infectious and usually more amenable to immunization.Redd wrote:Most people I know who'd gotten a flu shot got the flu right after. My trick is just not to get sick, eating healthy & exercise + winter outdoor exercise builds resistance and a healthy immune system. No need for the flu shot, your body already has everything it needs to take care of a cold or flu if you take care of it.
You have two physicians in this thread (I assume Jouhou is) telling you that you're wrong and yet you think you know more about this than the two of us? Seriously? The first rule of the Dunning-Krueger Club is that you don't know you're in the Dunning-Krueger Club, dude.
Exercise is good for you and gives you physical reserves against stressors like flu. However, it doesn't "build your immune system" and lots of winter outdoor exercise only exposes your respiratory tract to cold, dry air that causes microdamage to the respiratory mucosa, making it more likely that you'll get sick, not less.
DocLightning wrote:
You have two physicians in this thread (I assume Jouhou is) telling you that you're wrong and yet you think you know more about this than the two of us? Seriously? The first rule of the Dunning-Krueger Club is that you don't know you're in the Dunning-Krueger Club, dude.
Exercise is good for you and gives you physical reserves against stressors like flu. However, it doesn't "build your immune system" and lots of winter outdoor exercise only exposes your respiratory tract to cold, dry air that causes microdamage to the respiratory mucosa, making it more likely that you'll get sick, not less.
Jouhou wrote:I should add that while I know a lot about infectious disease, microbiology, and biochemistry, I'm generally at a loss when it comes to things like muscle strains. I have recurring issues with my shoulder and in that situation I have to always go to the doctor's office saying "wtf did I do to my shoulder this time?!!!"
Jouhou wrote:Redd wrote:Also "winter outdoor excercise" actually would make it worse. Dry air improves virus transmission and dry and cold air irritating your respiratory system make you prone to ANY infection.
On the other hand, exercise and a healthy diet is better for your general health. But the exercise doesn't have to be... outdoors in the winter...
Redd wrote:Jouhou wrote:I should add that while I know a lot about infectious disease, microbiology, and biochemistry, I'm generally at a loss when it comes to things like muscle strains. I have recurring issues with my shoulder and in that situation I have to always go to the doctor's office saying "wtf did I do to my shoulder this time?!!!"
Try going to an osteopath or a chiropractor. I regularly have sports injuries and my osteopath works wonders.
Redd wrote:Jouhou wrote:Redd wrote:Also "winter outdoor excercise" actually would make it worse. Dry air improves virus transmission and dry and cold air irritating your respiratory system make you prone to ANY infection.
On the other hand, exercise and a healthy diet is better for your general health. But the exercise doesn't have to be... outdoors in the winter...
Now this bothers me. Cold & dry air is such a blanket and unscientific statement. What are the values of humidity and temperature when it becomes damaging to your respiratory system? Below 5''C? Below 20% Humidity?And with those values in hand are people who regularity exercise equally impacted? Vs the general pop.?
I recently spoke about just this with my jogging group while grabbing some coffee after a jog. While we all jog in winter several times/week, not one jogger can remember getting sick since they've started jogging regularly. There are also studies which say that cold weather running is actually good for you. So what is it?
Jouhou wrote:I should add that while I know a lot about infectious disease, microbiology, and biochemistry, I'm generally at a loss when it comes to things like muscle strains. I have recurring issues with my shoulder and in that situation I have to always go to the doctor's office saying "wtf did I do to my shoulder this time?!!!"
Jouhou wrote:
I thought you lived in Poland or something, are winters that mild there? I would have thought they'd be at least somewhere close in harshness to ours.