2122M
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H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:14 pm

I'm reading through HR1 now, and at its core it seems to be an unimpeachable effort to get more people registered to vote and make it easier for them to vote.

A cornerstone of this effort is making election day a national holiday, but there s much more to it, including automatic registrations, free postage for mail in ballots and even a pilot program to find a way to allow disable people to vote from home.

There is funding for states to use for independent redistricting commissions, grants to help bolster voting system security and most importantly there are proposed transparency requirements relating to campaign contributions and political advertisement funding.

Its a long bill with a lot to read through, but at its core I think it attempts to deliver very popular reforms to help increase participation in our democracy and make it stronger and more representative.

Of course, the GOP hates it... Mitch McConnell thinks that making democracy more accessible is a 'political power grab'. Is that an admission by the GOP that more voter participation = more democratic votes?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-con ... ill/1/text
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:23 pm

I think Democrats should separate the "voting day a federal holiday" provision and vote on it as its own stand-alone bill.

There are plenty of reasons why the GOP would be against HR1 (even though none would make sense). Just put them on the spot by having them vote on this one issue. That right there will tell us all we need to know about the GOP and democracy.
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casinterest
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:25 pm

Cliff notes? That is TL
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:32 pm

casinterest wrote:
Cliff notes? That is TL


https://www.npr.org/2019/01/05/68228658 ... -first-act

Voting and election laws
◾Voter registration would be made easier. Citizens could register online or get registered automatically, via data from driver's licenses or other government sources. For federal elections, states would have to provide same-day registration and at least 15 days of early voting. Election Day would be a federal holiday.
◾The bill would crack down on efforts to take voters off the rolls or prevent them from casting ballots. Felons could regain their voting rights after finishing their sentences.
◾Federal elections would require paper ballots to prevent computer tampering. State chief election officials couldn't get involved in federal campaigns.
◾The bill would declare an intent to revive core anti-discrimination provisions of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 that were effectively shut down by the Supreme Court six years ago. It would also state that failing to vote isn't grounds for taking away a person's voter registration.


Campaign finance
◾Provisions from the Disclose Act would expand the prohibition on foreign political money and mandate the disclosure of the big donors behind politically active 501(c)(4) social welfare organizations.
◾Digital companies, like Facebook and Google, would have to set up public databases cataloging political ad purchase requests of $500 or more and create new measures to block ad buys by foreign nationals.
◾Presidential inaugural committees would have to disclose expenditures, in addition to the existing requirement for donor disclosure. This is a response to reports of unexplained spending by Trump's inaugural committee.
◾A new matching-fund program would support House candidates who agree to raise only small-dollar contributions. (Similar provisions for Senate candidates would have to come from the Senate.) The public financing system for presidential candidates, largely irrelevant since 2012, would be updated.
◾The bill would quash "sidecar" superPACs that support individual candidates.


Ethics
◾Presidents and vice presidents would have to release their tax returns, something that happened routinely in past administrations but not in this one.
◾Presidents-elect would need ethics plans for their transition teams and would have to file financial disclosures within 30 days of taking office. The bill would tell presidents and vice presidents they should act as if they are covered by the conflict-of-interest law, which actually exempts them. Again, this wasn't an issue in previous administrations because past presidents did not have the volume of business entanglements that Trump has.
◾House members would be barred from serving on corporate boards. Rep. Chris Collins, R-N.Y., is under indictment for allegedly using inside information he gained as a corporate board member.
◾House members would be forbidden to use taxpayer money to pay penalties for employment discrimination. Former Rep. Blake Farenthold, R-Texas, used $84,000 in federal funds to settle a sexual harassment claim by a former staffer, said he would repay it, but changed his mind after leaving office. Congress passed a bipartisan measure in December requiring members to pay out of their own pocket for some settlements and court judgments in sexual misconduct cases.
◾The Supreme Court would have to get a code of ethics, something it has never had.
◾The laws regulating foreign and domestic lobbying would be expanded.
 
mham001
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:50 pm

I believe voting is a very personal matter and I don't want the government deciding that I need to be registered - or not. It's not their business, just as it shouldn't be anybody's business which party I may or may not be registered with at the polls - but somehow it is in my state.

As I see the cliff notes, this bill is far too encompassing. It is dead.
 
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:52 pm

There's plenty in there I can support. A few things I don't necessarily support in their entirety, but would probably move on the issue if given something in exchange.
 
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casinterest
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:56 pm

There is too much in there about going in and gutting Congressional members Leeway. It will never make it out to the daylight.
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:56 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
A few things I don't necessarily support in their entirety, but would probably move on the issue if given something in exchange.


For example?
 
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:58 pm

mham001 wrote:
I believe voting is a very personal matter and I don't want the government deciding that I need to be registered - or not. It's not their business, just as it shouldn't be anybody's business which party I may or may not be registered with at the polls - but somehow it is in my state.

As I see the cliff notes, this bill is far too encompassing. It is dead.


Automatic registration doesn't force you to vote. It just give you the option if you want it. I can see zero downside to government giving all its citizens the option to vote automatically. Is that really something you would be against?
 
mham001
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:13 pm

2122M wrote:
mham001 wrote:
I believe voting is a very personal matter and I don't want the government deciding that I need to be registered - or not. It's not their business, just as it shouldn't be anybody's business which party I may or may not be registered with at the polls - but somehow it is in my state.

As I see the cliff notes, this bill is far too encompassing. It is dead.


Automatic registration doesn't force you to vote. It just give you the option if you want it. I can see zero downside to government giving all its citizens the option to vote automatically. Is that really something you would be against?


Yes. All citizens already have the option to vote. If it doesn't mean enough to go out and register yourself as you see fit, then those people probably shouldn't be voting anyway. We don't need any more dumbasses making decisions for us.
 
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:20 pm

mham001 wrote:
2122M wrote:
mham001 wrote:
I believe voting is a very personal matter and I don't want the government deciding that I need to be registered - or not. It's not their business, just as it shouldn't be anybody's business which party I may or may not be registered with at the polls - but somehow it is in my state.

As I see the cliff notes, this bill is far too encompassing. It is dead.


Automatic registration doesn't force you to vote. It just give you the option if you want it. I can see zero downside to government giving all its citizens the option to vote automatically. Is that really something you would be against?


Yes. All citizens already have the option to vote. If it doesn't mean enough to go out and register yourself as you see fit, then those people probably shouldn't be voting anyway. We don't need any more dumbasses making decisions for us.


So your primary concern here is that people that can’t go out of there way to register to vote are ‘dumbasses’ and shouldn’t be voting anyway?

Aka, if someone is too busy or doesn’t have the resources to get to a registration site, their voice is no longer valid?
 
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:24 pm

mham001 wrote:
2122M wrote:
mham001 wrote:
I believe voting is a very personal matter and I don't want the government deciding that I need to be registered - or not. It's not their business, just as it shouldn't be anybody's business which party I may or may not be registered with at the polls - but somehow it is in my state.

As I see the cliff notes, this bill is far too encompassing. It is dead.


Automatic registration doesn't force you to vote. It just give you the option if you want it. I can see zero downside to government giving all its citizens the option to vote automatically. Is that really something you would be against?


Yes. All citizens already have the option to vote. If it doesn't mean enough to go out and register yourself as you see fit, then those people probably shouldn't be voting anyway. We don't need any more dumbasses making decisions for us.


So, let's get this straight: you're against making it easier for citizens to register to vote, and thus exercise their voting rights? Are you advocating using the effort to register to vote as a proxy for a voter competency test?
 
johns624
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:02 pm

This is a House Resolution, not a Bill, so it wouldn't have the force of law anyways.
 
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:09 pm

johns624 wrote:
This is a House Resolution, not a Bill, so it wouldn't have the force of law anyways.


My understanding is that there are a number of bills built into the resolution, but I may be incorrect.
 
mham001
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:17 pm

2122M wrote:
mham001 wrote:
2122M wrote:

Automatic registration doesn't force you to vote. It just give you the option if you want it. I can see zero downside to government giving all its citizens the option to vote automatically. Is that really something you would be against?


Yes. All citizens already have the option to vote. If it doesn't mean enough to go out and register yourself as you see fit, then those people probably shouldn't be voting anyway. We don't need any more dumbasses making decisions for us.


So your primary concern here is that people that can’t go out of there way to register to vote are ‘dumbasses’ and shouldn’t be voting anyway?

Aka, if someone is too busy or doesn’t have the resources to get to a registration site, their voice is no longer valid?


No, they shouldn't be voting. If they are not informed enough to register themselves, they are highly unlikely to be informed enough to make decisions that affect all of us. Why would we want to encourage the willfully ignorant to make those decisions?

I don't know your state, but in my state, it only takes sending in a post card to register. Free postage. Who is registered where is not the governments decision. Period.

I also dislike that voting rolls are open to the public, an example of this is today's headlines....Howard Schultz is above the political fray — so high above he often doesn’t vote https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... esnt-vote/

That should be private information, otherwise we risk having it all used against us someday. Like I said, party affiliation is one of those things they want to know and record. I resent that. This is not the governments business.

One thing notably absent from the cliff notes is mention of producing an ID.
 
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:49 pm

2122M wrote:
mham001 wrote:
I believe voting is a very personal matter and I don't want the government deciding that I need to be registered - or not. It's not their business, just as it shouldn't be anybody's business which party I may or may not be registered with at the polls - but somehow it is in my state.

As I see the cliff notes, this bill is far too encompassing. It is dead.


Automatic registration doesn't force you to vote. It just give you the option if you want it. I can see zero downside to government giving all its citizens the option to vote automatically. Is that really something you would be against?


One thing that voter registration does is put you in the pool of available people for jury duty if I'm not mistaken. Not saying that anyone should honestly make that part of their decision, but I could see some people who are apathetic to the political process not wanting to participate in jury duty either.
 
seb146
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:07 pm

2122M wrote:
mham001 wrote:
I believe voting is a very personal matter and I don't want the government deciding that I need to be registered - or not. It's not their business, just as it shouldn't be anybody's business which party I may or may not be registered with at the polls - but somehow it is in my state.

As I see the cliff notes, this bill is far too encompassing. It is dead.


Automatic registration doesn't force you to vote. It just give you the option if you want it. I can see zero downside to government giving all its citizens the option to vote automatically. Is that really something you would be against?


People in Oregon are automatically registered once they get a licence or identification from DMV. They are, then, automatically sent a ballot ahead of elections. If a person chooses not to return the ballot, fine. But the effort was made.

I think there should be one bill dealing with voting and a separate bill dealing with campaign finance.
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Dieuwer
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:30 pm

2122M wrote:

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/05/68228658 ... -first-act

Voting and election laws
◾Voter registration would be made easier. Citizens could register online or get registered automatically, via data from driver's licenses or other government sources. For federal elections, states would have to provide same-day registration and at least 15 days of early voting. Election Day would be a federal holiday.
◾The bill would crack down on efforts to take voters off the rolls or prevent them from casting ballots. Felons could regain their voting rights after finishing their sentences.
◾Federal elections would require paper ballots to prevent computer tampering. State chief election officials couldn't get involved in federal campaigns.
◾The bill would declare an intent to revive core anti-discrimination provisions of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 that were effectively shut down by the Supreme Court six years ago. It would also state that failing to vote isn't grounds for taking away a person's voter registration.



How about being automatically registered and receiving a slip that allows you to go vote? If the FEDs can send you a SS statement, I presume they can send you a "voting invitation" as well.
I suggest machine voting. Much faster and no irregularities with human beings "interpreting a ballot" (or worse, "accidentally" losing a ballot and trashing it...). Also, the machine produces a receipt of your selection and vote after you cast your vote. In a way similar to a credit card receipt.
Make voting stations easily accessible. Set them up at schools, libraries, nursing homes, town halls, trains stations, bus stations, etc.
Last edited by Dieuwer on Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
NIKV69
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:32 pm

I like to keep it simple. I don't like early voting or email voting. Make election day a federal holiday so the work excuse is gone and give absentee ballots.
See that Broccoli over there? It's racist!
 
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:39 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
I like to keep it simple. I don't like early voting or email voting. Make election day a federal holiday so the work excuse is gone and give absentee ballots.


What don't you like about early voting?
 
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casinterest
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:11 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
I like to keep it simple. I don't like early voting or email voting. Make election day a federal holiday so the work excuse is gone and give absentee ballots.



So I had some friends overseas whose country gave them the day off to vote this year. It didn't increase turnout by much, but It might be worth a try.
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trpmb6
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:46 pm

casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
I like to keep it simple. I don't like early voting or email voting. Make election day a federal holiday so the work excuse is gone and give absentee ballots.



So I had some friends overseas whose country gave them the day off to vote this year. It didn't increase turnout by much, but It might be worth a try.


I've never really subscribed to the idea that people have trouble voting due to it being a work day. Polls are almost always open for at least 12 hours. Very few people work 12 hour days. We have so much advanced/early voting and vote by mail capabilities now, and that still hasn't really influenced turnout that much.

The only thing that a federal holiday might do is fix issues with lines, but I think lines have more to do with poor planning by election officials and not offering enough voting locations, or machine malfunctions. And lets be honest, we are creatures of habit and a lot of people wait til the last minute to go vote, even if they were able to vote earlier in the day. And besides, every person that gets in line gets to vote, regardless of poll closing time. So it's not even a factor in total vote totals (perhaps only in that someone may be discouraged to vote because they don't want to stand in line for 30 minutes? - but again this is rare)

That being said, I'm not opposed to a federal holiday for national elections. I just don't think it's going to impact voter turnout much. It's much more of a function of the desire to vote than it is the ability to vote. Honestly, you're more likely to see an increase in the number of people seeing a matinee film at the theater than you are to see an increase in voter turnout.
 
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:43 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
I've never really subscribed to the idea that people have trouble voting due to it being a work day. Polls are almost always open for at least 12 hours. Very few people work 12 hour days. We have so much advanced/early voting and vote by mail capabilities now, and that still hasn't really influenced turnout that much.

The only thing that a federal holiday might do is fix issues with lines, but I think lines have more to do with poor planning by election officials and not offering enough voting locations, or machine malfunctions. And lets be honest, we are creatures of habit and a lot of people wait til the last minute to go vote, even if they were able to vote earlier in the day. And besides, every person that gets in line gets to vote, regardless of poll closing time. So it's not even a factor in total vote totals (perhaps only in that someone may be discouraged to vote because they don't want to stand in line for 30 minutes? - but again this is rare)

That being said, I'm not opposed to a federal holiday for national elections. I just don't think it's going to impact voter turnout much. It's much more of a function of the desire to vote than it is the ability to vote. Honestly, you're more likely to see an increase in the number of people seeing a matinee film at the theater than you are to see an increase in voter turnout.


All good points that I'm inclined to agree with, but why did Mitch McConnell call it a 'Power Grab by Democrats'? What is in this HR that would be threatening to the GOP specifically?
 
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trpmb6
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:47 pm

2122M wrote:
All good points that I'm inclined to agree with, but why did Mitch McConnell call it a 'Power Grab by Democrats'? What is in this HR that would be threatening to the GOP specifically?


Of that I am not certain. But I haven't reviewed it fully enough to try and understand from a GOP perspective what their concerns may be.

The main thing I don't like is that there is so much packaged into this. Campaign Finance stuff, Voting rights stuff. You could be hard against one item and vote no, only to have Pelosi come out on the news circuit and exclaim: "See! The GOP wants to suppress your right to vote!" When I think in reality most in the GOP would support a good many things in this HR.
 
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:58 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
2122M wrote:
All good points that I'm inclined to agree with, but why did Mitch McConnell call it a 'Power Grab by Democrats'? What is in this HR that would be threatening to the GOP specifically?


Of that I am not certain. But I haven't reviewed it fully enough to try and understand from a GOP perspective what their concerns may be.

The main thing I don't like is that there is so much packaged into this. Campaign Finance stuff, Voting rights stuff. You could be hard against one item and vote no, only to have Pelosi come out on the news circuit and exclaim: "See! The GOP wants to suppress your right to vote!" When I think in reality most in the GOP would support a good many things in this HR.


As pointed out above, this is an HR consisting of a few different bills that (presumably) would be voted on independently.

That aside, I will read this more and hope you do the same because I'd be eager to hear your thoughts on it. If the measure is unpopular with the GOP for agood reason, I'm sure you can find it, but I have a feeling the GOP is more upset by the fact that the new Democratic house is showing initiative and presenting popular ideas instead of simply focusing on Trump and impeachment like they told their base would happen.

Either way, I would love to see congress do their jobs and debate this on its merits and see some good come from it. The vast majority of the country wants to see some kind of campaign finance reform and this could be a good launch pad for that reform, along with streamlining and modernizing the voting process and building some transparency into the process.
 
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:05 am

mham001 wrote:
I believe voting is a very personal matter and I don't want the government deciding that I need to be registered


Well, if you cared to form your own opinion by actually gathering data instead of just repeating the talking points from some Fox person, a talk radio host or such, you may have actually stumbled upon the fact that H.R. 1 does not empower the government to register you to vote against your will. It remains your very personal decision.

Not that you actually have to read the whole 570 pages to know that, just skimming across the provisions for automatic voter registration would let you find that in the 2nd paragraph ...... and goes on and on about how automatic does not mean involuntarily. Did you even open the text to read it once?

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DL717
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:31 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
I think Democrats should separate the "voting day a federal holiday" provision and vote on it as its own stand-alone bill.

There are plenty of reasons why the GOP would be against HR1 (even though none would make sense). Just put them on the spot by h.aving them vote on this one issue. That right there will tell us all we need to know about the GOP and democracy.



Election Day doesn’t need to be a holiday. People have nearly a month to mail in a ballot. That said, it should be postage free.

The rest of it is Democrat voter fluff, well, all of it is. Of course, nothing about a photo being required.
Last edited by DL717 on Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:36 pm

2122M wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
I've never really subscribed to the idea that people have trouble voting due to it being a work day. Polls are almost always open for at least 12 hours. Very few people work 12 hour days. We have so much advanced/early voting and vote by mail capabilities now, and that still hasn't really influenced turnout that much.

The only thing that a federal holiday might do is fix issues with lines, but I think lines have more to do with poor planning by election officials and not offering enough voting locations, or machine malfunctions. And lets be honest, we are creatures of habit and a lot of people wait til the last minute to go vote, even if they were able to vote earlier in the day. And besides, every person that gets in line gets to vote, regardless of poll closing time. So it's not even a factor in total vote totals (perhaps only in that someone may be discouraged to vote because they don't want to stand in line for 30 minutes? - but again this is rare)

That being said, I'm not opposed to a federal holiday for national elections. I just don't think it's going to impact voter turnout much. It's much more of a function of the desire to vote than it is the ability to vote. Honestly, you're more likely to see an increase in the number of people seeing a matinee film at the theater than you are to see an increase in voter turnout.


All good points that I'm inclined to agree with, but why did Mitch McConnell call it a 'Power Grab by Democrats'? What is in this HR that would be threatening to the GOP specifically?


Because it Federalizes State election sovereignty. States have the right to determine how elections in their States are held.
Putting one on ignore does not squelch speech or debate, it’s quiets the noise.
 
2122M
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:39 pm

DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
I've never really subscribed to the idea that people have trouble voting due to it being a work day. Polls are almost always open for at least 12 hours. Very few people work 12 hour days. We have so much advanced/early voting and vote by mail capabilities now, and that still hasn't really influenced turnout that much.

The only thing that a federal holiday might do is fix issues with lines, but I think lines have more to do with poor planning by election officials and not offering enough voting locations, or machine malfunctions. And lets be honest, we are creatures of habit and a lot of people wait til the last minute to go vote, even if they were able to vote earlier in the day. And besides, every person that gets in line gets to vote, regardless of poll closing time. So it's not even a factor in total vote totals (perhaps only in that someone may be discouraged to vote because they don't want to stand in line for 30 minutes? - but again this is rare)

That being said, I'm not opposed to a federal holiday for national elections. I just don't think it's going to impact voter turnout much. It's much more of a function of the desire to vote than it is the ability to vote. Honestly, you're more likely to see an increase in the number of people seeing a matinee film at the theater than you are to see an increase in voter turnout.


All good points that I'm inclined to agree with, but why did Mitch McConnell call it a 'Power Grab by Democrats'? What is in this HR that would be threatening to the GOP specifically?


Because it Federalizes State election sovereignty. States have the right to determine how elections in their States are held.


Nothing about Photo ID, that's true. That's because between that and the wall it's really only the GOP that is determined to solve problems that don't exist.
 
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:45 pm

2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:

All good points that I'm inclined to agree with, but why did Mitch McConnell call it a 'Power Grab by Democrats'? What is in this HR that would be threatening to the GOP specifically?


Because it Federalizes State election sovereignty. States have the right to determine how elections in their States are held.


Nothing about Photo ID, that's true. That's because between that and the wall it's really only the GOP that is determined to solve problems that don't exist.



So then you’re for an ID to make sure your assertion is correct. How long before one of these states that allow illegals to vote in certain elections has a database screw up? It’s a guarantee it will happen. One step at a time. That’s the left. First local, the State, then a Federal challenge. It’s the way they always work. This whole thing is just a ploy to enact loose voting laws from liberal states so they can later come back and make more changes when they need more votes.
Last edited by DL717 on Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:53 pm

DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Because it Federalizes State election sovereignty. States have the right to determine how elections in their States are held.


Nothing about Photo ID, that's true. That's because between that and the wall it's really only the GOP that is determined to solve problems that don't exist.



So then you’re for an ID to make sure you’re assertion is correct.


Ummm... no? Not sure how you got there. Is that your far-right logic at work? Many, many studies have been done, all of which show there is no widespread voter fraud, and certainly no issue worth adding an additional barrier to voting:

https://www.propublica.org/article/kris ... nsas-trial

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/ ... fraud-myth

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-ne ... oter-fraud (<--- this is a good one, even Trump couldn't make up a voter fraud issue, and he tried really, really hard)
 
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DL717
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:56 pm

2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:

Nothing about Photo ID, that's true. That's because between that and the wall it's really only the GOP that is determined to solve problems that don't exist.



So then you’re for an ID to make sure you’re assertion is correct.


Ummm... no? Not sure how you got there. Is that your far-right logic at work? Many, many studies have been done, all of which show there is no widespread voter fraud, and certainly no issue worth adding an additional barrier to voting:

https://www.propublica.org/article/kris ... nsas-trial

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/ ... fraud-myth

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-ne ... oter-fraud (<--- this is a good one, even Trump couldn't make up a voter fraud issue, and he tried really, really hard)


It’s not about “widespread” voter fraud. One illegally cast vote is one too many. Surely you want to ensure that every vote cast is a legal one lest your vote be nullified.

By the way. Love your run down on this that targets conservatives and ignores all the illegal crap liberals have done. Did you lift it from MSNBC?
Putting one on ignore does not squelch speech or debate, it’s quiets the noise.
 
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zkojq
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:06 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I suggest machine voting. Much faster and no irregularities with human beings "interpreting a ballot" (or worse, "accidentally" losing a ballot and trashing it...). Also, the machine produces a receipt of your selection and vote after you cast your vote. In a way similar to a credit card receipt.
Make voting stations easily accessible. Set them up at schools, libraries, nursing homes, town halls, trains stations, bus stations, etc.


Machine voting is a terrible idea. Makes it much hard to investigate fraud and much easier for election to be 'hacked'. Especially in a country where voting machines can be privately owned.
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2122M
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:15 pm

DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:


So then you’re for an ID to make sure you’re assertion is correct.


Ummm... no? Not sure how you got there. Is that your far-right logic at work? Many, many studies have been done, all of which show there is no widespread voter fraud, and certainly no issue worth adding an additional barrier to voting:

https://www.propublica.org/article/kris ... nsas-trial

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/ ... fraud-myth

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-ne ... oter-fraud (<--- this is a good one, even Trump couldn't make up a voter fraud issue, and he tried really, really hard)


It’s not about “widespread” voter fraud. One illegally cast vote is one too many. Surely you want to ensure that every vote cast is a legal one lest your vote be nullified.

By the way. Love your run down on this that targets conservatives and ignores all the illegal crap liberals have done. Did you lift it from MSNBC?


Is one gun death enough to ban all guns? Is one cubic foot of pollution enough to ban all fossil fuels?

Honestly, as long as illegally cast votes aren't changing the outcome of elections, then I don't care if one to two slip though the crack. And the best way to counteract it is to make voting more accessible and easier for legal US citizens. That would lower the already negligible impact of a few illegal votes here and there.

And finally, if you have an issue with the bullet points listed (link to source below), feel free to read the bill and let me know how it could end illegal activities from democrats, because to be honest, I'm all for that too. Lets clean things up on both sides of the aisle.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/05/68228658 ... -first-act
 
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DL717
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:17 pm

2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:

Ummm... no? Not sure how you got there. Is that your far-right logic at work? Many, many studies have been done, all of which show there is no widespread voter fraud, and certainly no issue worth adding an additional barrier to voting:

https://www.propublica.org/article/kris ... nsas-trial

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/ ... fraud-myth

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-ne ... oter-fraud (<--- this is a good one, even Trump couldn't make up a voter fraud issue, and he tried really, really hard)


It’s not about “widespread” voter fraud. One illegally cast vote is one too many. Surely you want to ensure that every vote cast is a legal one lest your vote be nullified.

By the way. Love your run down on this that targets conservatives and ignores all the illegal crap liberals have done. Did you lift it from MSNBC?


Is one gun death enough to ban all guns? Is one cubic foot of pollution enough to ban all fossil fuels?

Honestly, as long as illegally cast votes aren't changing the outcome of elections, then I don't care if one to two slip though the crack. And the best way to counteract it is to make voting more accessible and easier for legal US citizens. That would lower the already negligible impact of a few illegal votes here and there.

And finally, if you have an issue with the bullet points listed (link to source below), feel free to read the bill and let me know how it could end illegal activities from democrats, because to be honest, I'm all for that too. Lets clean things up on both sides of the aisle.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/05/68228658 ... -first-act


Well, at least you show your true colors. Ignore the constitution. It’s just a piece of old toilet paper. I am curious though. What is it with the left and their push to Federalize everything? You guys trying to end the Republic one knife slash at a time? Seems like all you want to do is grab everything from the top, make only large population centers relevant and push it all on the rest of us as if you’re all that matters. So much for freedom. Kinda disturbing.
Putting one on ignore does not squelch speech or debate, it’s quiets the noise.
 
2122M
Topic Author
Posts: 1095
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:31 pm

DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:

It’s not about “widespread” voter fraud. One illegally cast vote is one too many. Surely you want to ensure that every vote cast is a legal one lest your vote be nullified.

By the way. Love your run down on this that targets conservatives and ignores all the illegal crap liberals have done. Did you lift it from MSNBC?


Is one gun death enough to ban all guns? Is one cubic foot of pollution enough to ban all fossil fuels?

Honestly, as long as illegally cast votes aren't changing the outcome of elections, then I don't care if one to two slip though the crack. And the best way to counteract it is to make voting more accessible and easier for legal US citizens. That would lower the already negligible impact of a few illegal votes here and there.

And finally, if you have an issue with the bullet points listed (link to source below), feel free to read the bill and let me know how it could end illegal activities from democrats, because to be honest, I'm all for that too. Lets clean things up on both sides of the aisle.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/05/68228658 ... -first-act


Well, at least you show your true colors. Ignore the constitution. It’s just a piece of old toilet paper. I am curious though. What is it with the left and their push to Federalize everything? You guys trying to end the Republic?


In what way am I ignoring the constitution? Do you have anything of interest or value to bring to the debate?

You brought up an interesting point about the states rights to decide how voting takes place, but there have always been and always will be federal guidelines that the states have to follow. Just look at the voting rights act in 1965. A list of federal guidelines to prevent the states from using their rights to discriminate against African-Americans. Plenty of other landmark cases, like Brown vs the Board of Education for example, have allowed the federal government to enforce rules on state functions. Americans have a constitutional right to vote, and if states are impeding or infringing on that right by making it difficult for some citizens to get registered or cast a vote, the federal government is 100% within its rights to do something about that.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10065
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:02 pm

DL717 wrote:
Well, at least you show your true colors. Ignore the constitution.


Vorher ID laws are an obstacle to voting, a right that shall not be abridged according to the constitution you claim to care about.
So, I guess a free, white, male, nowadays illegal, resident of the US voting would be file for you, because that was what made you a citizen when the constitution was drafted, right?
The 14th amendment was almost a 100 years later...

It’s just a piece of old toilet paper. I am curious though. What is it with the left and their push to Federalize everything?


Because they can and enforcing section 1 of the 15th amendment is sort of their job?? Again, by your constitution:

"Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

If they go beyond what's needed to enforce section 1, you have a supreme court to stop them. If you leave that only to those judges, they'd be effectively making the laws, which isn't their job, again according to the constitution you claim to care about.

You guys trying to end the Republic one knife slash at a time?


You do realize that you'd still be a republic even if all states dissolved into one unified body, right?
You'd only stop to be a federation at that point. But hey, no more federal governme t in that case either....

Seems like all you want to do is grab everything from the top, make only large population centers relevant and push it all on the rest of us as if you’re all that matters. So much for freedom. Kinda disturbing.


How exactly does making sure everyone eligible can easily cast a vote and have it counted, making campaign financing more transparent and limiting the influence of large money, that is usually sitting in just those population centers, make only those relevant and pushes the rest of us?

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 6957
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:19 pm

DL717 wrote:
Election Day doesn’t need to be a holiday. People have nearly a month to mail in a ballot.

Do tell. Not all states mail their ballots, and the ones that do (not as their sole way to vote) require you to justify why you're mailing your ballot.

DL717 wrote:
That said, it should be postage free.

Free postage? SOCIALISM!!!! I don't want my tax dollars to support lazy people who can't show up to vote!

DL717 wrote:
Of course, nothing about a photo being required.

I thought you'd be supportive of this: it lets the states determine their requirements as opposed to federal overreach...sometimes I just can't understand conservatives.
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monomojo
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:39 pm

Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:33 am

DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:


So then you’re for an ID to make sure you’re assertion is correct.


Ummm... no? Not sure how you got there. Is that your far-right logic at work? Many, many studies have been done, all of which show there is no widespread voter fraud, and certainly no issue worth adding an additional barrier to voting:

https://www.propublica.org/article/kris ... nsas-trial

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/ ... fraud-myth

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-ne ... oter-fraud (<--- this is a good one, even Trump couldn't make up a voter fraud issue, and he tried really, really hard)


It’s not about “widespread” voter fraud. One illegally cast vote is one too many. Surely you want to ensure that every vote cast is a legal one lest your vote be nullified.

By the way. Love your run down on this that targets conservatives and ignores all the illegal crap liberals have done. Did you lift it from MSNBC?


Ensuring that every American can easily exercise their right to vote and preventing voter fraud are orthogonal issues. You can achieve both, and preventing fraud does not require making it more difficult to vote or register to vote. The concept that combating widespread voter fraud requires increasingly strict restrictions on who can vote is something the right pushes because they fear an engaged and diverse electorate. Finally, a small percentage of invalid votes not invalidate an entire election, and never has. The system already includes procedures and contingencies for invalid votes, and naturally the more people that vote then proportionally more invalid votes we'll get. That is not a valid reason to permit it to remain arbitrarily and unnecessarily difficult for selective groups to exercise the right to vote.
 
c933103
Posts: 3176
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:17 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I suggest machine voting. Much faster and no irregularities with human beings "interpreting a ballot" (or worse, "accidentally" losing a ballot and trashing it...). Also, the machine produces a receipt of your selection and vote after you cast your vote. In a way similar to a credit card receipt.
Make voting stations easily accessible. Set them up at schools, libraries, nursing homes, town halls, trains stations, bus stations, etc.

What you propose would make it possible to track who voted who. Voters could then face consequences because of their votes, as it appears to be happening in Venezuela now
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3125
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:00 am

c933103 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I suggest machine voting. Much faster and no irregularities with human beings "interpreting a ballot" (or worse, "accidentally" losing a ballot and trashing it...). Also, the machine produces a receipt of your selection and vote after you cast your vote. In a way similar to a credit card receipt.
Make voting stations easily accessible. Set them up at schools, libraries, nursing homes, town halls, trains stations, bus stations, etc.

What you propose would make it possible to track who voted who. Voters could then face consequences because of their votes, as it appears to be happening in Venezuela now

Easier solution: paper scantron ballots.

Fill the circle beside the candidate's name you want to vote for with a No. 2 pencil. Fold ballot and stuff in a box. When votes are being counted, scan the votes into the machine to tabulate voter count, and keep the paper ballots in case of recount or for auditing purposes.
 
LMP737
Posts: 5770
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:14 am

mham001 wrote:
I believe voting is a very personal matter and I don't want the government deciding that I need to be registered - or not. It's not their business, just as it shouldn't be anybody's business which party I may or may not be registered with at the polls - but somehow it is in my state.

As I see the cliff notes, this bill is far too encompassing. It is dead.


There are states out there who are are going out of their way to make voting more difficult. Don't have a problem with that do you?
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LMP737
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:34 am

DL717 wrote:

It’s not about “widespread” voter fraud. One illegally cast vote is one too many. Surely you want to ensure that every vote cast is a legal one lest your vote be nullified.


Well the only way to ensue that is to do away with absentee ballots altogether. After all, how do you know with 100% certainty that the mail in ballot was filled out by the person it was meant for

DL717 wrote:
By the way. Love your run down on this that targets conservatives and ignores all the illegal crap liberals have done. Did you lift it from MSNBC?
[/quote]

You lifted your talking points for Fox News. Pot, meet kettle.
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LMP737
Posts: 5770
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:43 am

DL717 wrote:


Election Day doesn’t need to be a holiday. People have nearly a month to mail in a ballot. That said, it should be postage free.

The rest of it is Democrat voter fluff, well, all of it is. Of course, nothing about a photo being required.


Wow, you're all over the map here. So should we have mail in ballots or not? Because as I already pointed out no is checking for a photo ID when that mail in ballot arrives.

P.S. You are aware that not all states do all voting via mail like Washington state does?
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tommy1808
Posts: 10065
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:04 am

c933103 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I suggest machine voting. Much faster and no irregularities with human beings "interpreting a ballot" (or worse, "accidentally" losing a ballot and trashing it...). Also, the machine produces a receipt of your selection and vote after you cast your vote. In a way similar to a credit card receipt.
Make voting stations easily accessible. Set them up at schools, libraries, nursing homes, town halls, trains stations, bus stations, etc.

What you propose would make it possible to track who voted who.


Could, not would. You can set up a voting machine design that doesn't keep voter info at all or a record of what they voted for, while making sure every registered voter only casts one vote. But

ThePointblank wrote:
Easier solution: paper scantron ballots.


Add manual recount in any case. That way human & machine would perform checks on each other.
Should be something more permanent than a no. 2 pencil though.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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DL717
Posts: 1164
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:34 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I suggest machine voting. Much faster and no irregularities with human beings "interpreting a ballot" (or worse, "accidentally" losing a ballot and trashing it...). Also, the machine produces a receipt of your selection and vote after you cast your vote. In a way similar to a credit card receipt.
Make voting stations easily accessible. Set them up at schools, libraries, nursing homes, town halls, trains stations, bus stations, etc.

What you propose would make it possible to track who voted who. Voters could then face consequences because of their votes, as it appears to be happening in Venezuela now

Easier solution: paper scantron ballots.

Fill the circle beside the candidate's name you want to vote for with a No. 2 pencil. Fold ballot and stuff in a box. When votes are being counted, scan the votes into the machine to tabulate voter count, and keep the paper ballots in case of recount or for auditing purposes.


This exaclty.
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DL717
Posts: 1164
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Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:38 pm

LMP737 wrote:
DL717 wrote:


Election Day doesn’t need to be a holiday. People have nearly a month to mail in a ballot. That said, it should be postage free.

The rest of it is Democrat voter fluff, well, all of it is. Of course, nothing about a photo being required.


Wow, you're all over the map here. So should we have mail in ballots or not? Because as I already pointed out no is checking for a photo ID when that mail in ballot arrives.

P.S. You are aware that not all states do all voting via mail like Washington state does?


That’s why you present an ID to get your name on the list to get an absentee ballot in the first place. At that point they collect your signature for verification. This is kept on file and checked against your ballot. You know this of course right?

https://www.npr.org/2014/10/22/35810860 ... e-mistakes
Putting one on ignore does not squelch speech or debate, it’s quiets the noise.
 
LMP737
Posts: 5770
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: H.R. 1 - For The People Act 2019

Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:04 am

DL717 wrote:

That’s why you present an ID to get your name on the list to get an absentee ballot in the first place. At that point they collect your signature for verification. This is kept on file and checked against your ballot. You know this of course right?

https://www.npr.org/2014/10/22/35810860 ... e-mistakes


Really? I live in Washington state and my ballot along with every other registered voter is mailed to me. You seem to assuming that every state is the same.
Why is it that if someone votes in person they have to have a valid photo ID but if it's through the mail that's somehow different? I'll tell you why, it doesn't fit your narrative.
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