• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 2625
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:18 am

Apparently I missed the bit where he dressed up as Michael Jackson for a dance party.

This brings up a broader question of... where do you draw the line of flattery and imitation vs mockery and racist?

Should my son be able to dress up in a black panther costume (he really loves black panther)? He doesn't see race in the matter at all. Yet last Halloween (pretty sure we discussed this on this forum actually) I gently pushed him towards spiderman instead, not wanting to create a potential controversy while we roam the neighborhood.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3518
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:21 am

Where did get the idea that the DoJ isn’t in the Article II Executive Branch? I’d love to read that one. I’m most definitely NOT in favor of authoritarian government, but I am in favor of constitutional government. If you serve, you serve at the pleasure of the Oresident.

GF
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:23 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Where did get the idea that the DoJ isn’t in the Article II Executive Branch? I’d love to read that one. I’m most definitely NOT in favor of authoritarian government, but I am in favor of constitutional government. If you serve, you serve at the pleasure of the Oresident.

GF


Hahahahahahahahaha keep on telling yourself that. You’re apologizing for a criminal president taking steps to end an investigation into him. Remind me how this all ended up? The joke’s on Bill Clinton I guess.
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:24 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Apparently I missed the bit where he dressed up as Michael Jackson for a dance party.

This brings up a broader question of... where do you draw the line of flattery and imitation vs mockery and racist?

Should my son be able to dress up in a black panther costume (he really loves black panther)? He doesn't see race in the matter at all. Yet last Halloween (pretty sure we discussed this on this forum actually) I gently pushed him towards spiderman instead, not wanting to create a potential controversy while we roam the neighborhood.


It may bring up some questions to some people who can’t seem to exercise good judgment or taste. Seems to me it’s pretty damned clear there’s a difference between a white kid donning a Black Panther costume and one doing the same and smearing on some shoe polish, but YMMV.

The question it raises to me is whether, while dressed up as Michael Jackson, of course, he ever grabbed anyone by the p*ssy.
Last edited by jetero on Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
alfa164
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:27 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
And you don’t understand the AG and all the Justice Dep’t work for, wait for it,—the President. Nixon, Bork concluded correctly, could fire anyone in the Executive Branch.


That is patently false. The Attorney General and the Department of Justice work for the people of the United States; they do not represent the individual interests of the President, nor do they represent the interests of any other individual within the government. In times of conflict, those individuals - including the President - hire their own counsel to represent their interests (in Nixon's case, James St. Clair led his legal team).

The use of the AG's office, rather than the White House Counsel or outside counsel, is a serious violation of the role it plays - although this legality seems to be lost on the current occupant of the Oval Office (and,apparently, to his lemmings), who believes everyone surrounding him owes him a personal fealty.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The DoJ is not independent, but the day went down as the beginning of the end for Nixon.
GF


That, too, is false. The Attorney General is appointed by the President, and serves at the pleasure of the President, but remains - as does the Justice Department - independent. Following your claims, we would be left to suppose that the AG is there to protect the President, not the country; the Secretary of Energy is there to be sure the President has gas; the Secretary of Commerce is there to make the President richer... only one narcissistic man-child would actually believe that...

:roll:
Last edited by alfa164 on Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20442
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:31 am

trpmb6 wrote:
I doubt the man is racist.

But how the hell does something like this even make it to a yearbook?


Funny you should bring that up

https://thinkprogress.org/website-that- ... 6e1111c98/

His former opponent has some friends who just happen to run a far right web site. Sounds like sour grapes to me. "I didn't win, so I will make the winner look bad".
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:34 am

alfa164 wrote:
That is patently false. The Attorney General and the Department of Justice work for the people of the United States; they do not represent the individual interests of the President,

While I agree with you in theory, you have left out a very important detail. Cabinet officials serve at the pleasure of the president and can be fired for any cause or no cause.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... 56ed6f143b
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:35 am

seb146 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
I doubt the man is racist.

But how the hell does something like this even make it to a yearbook?


Funny you should bring that up

https://thinkprogress.org/website-that- ... 6e1111c98/

His former opponent has some friends who just happen to run a far right web site. Sounds like sour grapes to me. "I didn't win, so I will make the winner look bad".

He made himself look bad. His opponent just brought it to light.

You sure seem comfortable cozying up to a racist.
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:38 am

Magog wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
That is patently false. The Attorney General and the Department of Justice work for the people of the United States; they do not represent the individual interests of the President,

While I agree with you in theory, you have left out a very important detail. Cabinet officials serve at the pleasure of the president and can be fired for any cause or no cause.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... 56ed6f143b


Yeah why argue on principle when you can argue on loopholes? I’d certainly love it if our district attorney declined to prosecute a criminal member of her family because, er, she’s the one who makes that decision according to the org chart.
Last edited by jetero on Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Airstud
Posts: 4649
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:38 am

ltbewr wrote:
jetero wrote:
NoTime wrote:
As someone pointed out earlier - How in the world did this not come up during the governors election cycle? I mean, it's in a yearbook. What an absolute failure of opposition research.


Yes, I agree, he was fairly elected. He should be able to stay in office. Let the voters decide next round.

The state of Virginia only has governors serve 1 - 4 year term, they cannot run for the Governor's post again. However, he could lose in a run for election for another position. I am not sure if they have Impeachment proceedings for Governors in VA.


What happens if (or should I say when :biggrin: ) Mr. Fairfax becomes governor, will he be permitted to run for election after he finishes out Northam's term?
Pancakes are delicious.
 
alfa164
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:42 am

Airstud wrote:
What happens if (or should I say when :biggrin: ) Mr. Fairfax becomes governor, will he be permitted to run for election after he finishes out Northam's term?


Yes. In truth, Mr. Fairfax ascending to that position now would probably be a big long-term boost to the Democrats in Virginia.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:43 am

jetero wrote:
Magog wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
That is patently false. The Attorney General and the Department of Justice work for the people of the United States; they do not represent the individual interests of the President,

While I agree with you in theory, you have left out a very important detail. Cabinet officials serve at the pleasure of the president and can be fired for any cause or no cause.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... 56ed6f143b


Yeah why argue on principle when you can argue on loopholes? I’d certainly love it if our district attorney declined to prosecute a criminal member of her family because, er, she’s the one who makes that decision according to the org chart.

Attorneys have ethical rules that are codified. Apples to oranges.
 
alfa164
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:46 am

Magog wrote:
jetero wrote:
Magog wrote:
While I agree with you in theory, you have left out a very important detail. Cabinet officials serve at the pleasure of the president and can be fired for any cause or no cause.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... 56ed6f143b

Yeah why argue on principle when you can argue on loopholes? I’d certainly love it if our district attorney declined to prosecute a criminal member of her family because, er, she’s the one who makes that decision according to the org chart.

Attorneys have ethical rules that are codified. Apples to oranges.


And the Attorney General is, by definition... an attorney. Did you miss that juicy piece of fruit?
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:46 am

Magog wrote:
jetero wrote:
Magog wrote:
While I agree with you in theory, you have left out a very important detail. Cabinet officials serve at the pleasure of the president and can be fired for any cause or no cause.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... 56ed6f143b


Yeah why argue on principle when you can argue on loopholes? I’d certainly love it if our district attorney declined to prosecute a criminal member of her family because, er, she’s the one who makes that decision according to the org chart.

Attorneys have ethical rules that are codified. Apples to oranges.


HILARIOUS.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20442
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:47 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Apparently I missed the bit where he dressed up as Michael Jackson for a dance party.

This brings up a broader question of... where do you draw the line of flattery and imitation vs mockery and racist?

Should my son be able to dress up in a black panther costume (he really loves black panther)? He doesn't see race in the matter at all. Yet last Halloween (pretty sure we discussed this on this forum actually) I gently pushed him towards spiderman instead, not wanting to create a potential controversy while we roam the neighborhood.


There are tasteful and respectful ways to play a different race. If all else fails, simply wear the costume.

The sit-com Designing Women was very progressive and sort of addressed this in one episode. Suzanne (Delta Burke) appeared in black face for a charity event. I can't find anything in a quick search, but knowing what I have read about the cast and writers, they would consult with different groups when writing an episode. I think they probably were in touch with NAACP a lot writing that episode.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:47 am

alfa164 wrote:
Magog wrote:
jetero wrote:
Yeah why argue on principle when you can argue on loopholes? I’d certainly love it if our district attorney declined to prosecute a criminal member of her family because, er, she’s the one who makes that decision according to the org chart.

Attorneys have ethical rules that are codified. Apples to oranges.


And the Attorney General is, by definition... an attorney. Did you miss that juicy piece of fruit?

No, I didn’t. My point is that the President can fire the AG and that the President and AG have different rules.
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:48 am

jetero wrote:
Magog wrote:
jetero wrote:

Yeah why argue on principle when you can argue on loopholes? I’d certainly love it if our district attorney declined to prosecute a criminal member of her family because, er, she’s the one who makes that decision according to the org chart.

Attorneys have ethical rules that are codified. Apples to oranges.


HILARIOUS.

Actually, it’s not. Anything but.

But keep deflecting from the fact that you are defending a racist.
 
alfa164
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:53 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Apparently I missed the bit where he dressed up as Michael Jackson for a dance party. This brings up a broader question of... where do you draw the line of flattery and imitation vs mockery and racist?
Should my son be able to dress up in a black panther costume (he really loves black panther)? He doesn't see race in the matter at all. Yet last Halloween (pretty sure we discussed this on this forum actually) I gently pushed him towards spiderman instead, not wanting to create a potential controversy while we roam the neighborhood.


This is an important question, because what is seeming innocent adoration of a "hero" today may look like something completely different a generation later. What was considered acceptable when I was growing up would make me a social pyrriha today; I am fortunale Facebook, et al, did not exist 50 years ago.

Magog wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Magog wrote:
Attorneys have ethical rules that are codified. Apples to oranges.

And the Attorney General is, by definition... an attorney. Did you miss that juicy piece of fruit?

No, I didn’t. My point is that the President can fire the AG and that the President and AG have different rules.


You probably should have read all that I wrote before embarrassing yourself... again...

alfa164 wrote:
The Attorney General is appointed by the President, and serves at the pleasure of the President, but remains - as does the Justice Department - independent. Following your claims, we would be left to suppose that the AG is there to protect the President, not the country; the Secretary of Energy is there to be sure the President has gas; the Secretary of Commerce is there to make the President richer... only one narcissistic man-child would actually believe that...


Magog wrote:
But keep deflecting from the fact that you are defending a racist.


Yet in your previous identity as a self-proclaimed "moderate", you had no problem defending a notable racist...

:roll:
Last edited by alfa164 on Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:55 am

Magog wrote:
jetero wrote:
Magog wrote:
Attorneys have ethical rules that are codified. Apples to oranges.


HILARIOUS.

Actually, it’s not. Anything but.

But keep deflecting from the fact that you are defending a racist.


Now now, why the personal attacks? Can’t you stay on topic?
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:04 am

jetero wrote:
Magog wrote:
jetero wrote:

HILARIOUS.

Actually, it’s not. Anything but.

But keep deflecting from the fact that you are defending a racist.


Now now, why the personal attacks? Can’t you stay on topic?

The topic is the racist governor. He’s the one you seem to love defending. I don’t know why anyone would support a racist. Maybe it’s my years of activism at work.
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:08 am

Magog wrote:
jetero wrote:
Magog wrote:
Actually, it’s not. Anything but.

But keep deflecting from the fact that you are defending a racist.


Now now, why the personal attacks? Can’t you stay on topic?

The topic is the racist governor. He’s the one you seem to love defending. I don’t know why anyone would support a racist. Maybe it’s my years of activism at work.


Indubitably.
 
alfa164
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:16 am

Magog wrote:
The topic is the racist governor. He’s the one you seem to love defending. I don’t know why anyone would support a racist. Maybe it’s my years of activism at work.


Now that is HILARIOUS!
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
mham001
Posts: 5556
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:29 am

Magog wrote:
Everyone knew in 1984 that this was totally inappropriate.


Not really. I was 24 then and never heard of it. Growing up in a black section of a northern city, I never saw anybody in or any mention of "blackface". It just wasn't a thing at that time. Nor in the 70's. But, there is of course some geographical differences with Virginia and maybe there was some intent, or it was just a Halloween costume. I'm not sure when offensive Halloween costumes became a long-term offense but I have seen much, much worse - and win the prize for best costume. There are few people alive who could have been personally offended by blackface. The outrage is learned. The KKK costume is a different matter, especially in Virginia.

My only experience in Virginia happened about that time, stuck on I95 hitchhiking, I'd been told to avoid Virginia Beach, hard to get a ride out. So a car with 3 girls stops, the driver with large breasts bounces out and asks if I'd like a ride to Virginia Beach where they were spending a week. What did I reactively say? "No". One of those idiot moments that is never forgotten. That is what 24 year olds are thinking about.
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:37 am

The defending of racism in this thread is mind blowing.
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:39 am

Magog wrote:
The defending of racism in this thread is mind blowing.


For some of our more “special” members, I agree, it certainly seems to be.
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1672
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:50 am

I love to see the Democrats eat their own
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:51 am

stratosphere wrote:
I love to see the Democrats eat their own


Now there’s a shocker. Good on you!
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20442
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:16 am

stratosphere wrote:
I love to see the Democrats eat their own


You mean holding their own to a high standard instead of saying "meh.... whatever... kids... what can you do?"
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Posts: 1966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:46 am

Magog wrote:
The defending of racism in this thread is mind blowing.


No one is defending "racism" here. No one is even defending the governor. And btw, I'm actually a member of activist communities, and once again the positions you're taking seem to be purely to amplify Democratic divisions.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20442
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:50 am

Magog wrote:
The defending of racism in this thread is mind blowing.


Who, exactly, is defending racism? Direct quotes, please.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 12673
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:55 am

trpmb6 wrote:
I doubt the man is racist.

But how the hell does something like this even make it to a yearbook?


I was thinking the same thing who proof read this thing?
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3518
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:21 am

alfa164 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
And you don’t understand the AG and all the Justice Dep’t work for, wait for it,—the President. Nixon, Bork concluded correctly, could fire anyone in the Executive Branch.


That is patently false. The Attorney General and the Department of Justice work for the people of the United States; they do not represent the individual interests of the President, nor do they represent the interests of any other individual within the government. In times of conflict, those individuals - including the President - hire their own counsel to represent their interests (in Nixon's case, James St. Clair led his legal team).

The use of the AG's office, rather than the White House Counsel or outside counsel, is a serious violation of the role it plays - although this legality seems to be lost on the current occupant of the Oval Office (and,apparently, to his lemmings), who believes everyone surrounding him owes him a personal fealty.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The DoJ is not independent, but the day went down as the beginning of the end for Nixon.
GF


That, too, is false. The Attorney General is appointed by the President, and serves at the pleasure of the President, but remains - as does the Justice Department - independent. Following your claims, we would be left to suppose that the AG is there to protect the President, not the country; the Secretary of Energy is there to be sure the President has gas; the Secretary of Commerce is there to make the President richer... only one narcissistic man-child would actually believe that...

:roll:


Read Myers v. US which addresses executive power and the President’s power to fire Executive Branch Officer.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/272/52

GG
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:35 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
And you don’t understand the AG and all the Justice Dep’t work for, wait for it,—the President. Nixon, Bork concluded correctly, could fire anyone in the Executive Branch.


That is patently false. The Attorney General and the Department of Justice work for the people of the United States; they do not represent the individual interests of the President, nor do they represent the interests of any other individual within the government. In times of conflict, those individuals - including the President - hire their own counsel to represent their interests (in Nixon's case, James St. Clair led his legal team).

The use of the AG's office, rather than the White House Counsel or outside counsel, is a serious violation of the role it plays - although this legality seems to be lost on the current occupant of the Oval Office (and,apparently, to his lemmings), who believes everyone surrounding him owes him a personal fealty.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The DoJ is not independent, but the day went down as the beginning of the end for Nixon.
GF


That, too, is false. The Attorney General is appointed by the President, and serves at the pleasure of the President, but remains - as does the Justice Department - independent. Following your claims, we would be left to suppose that the AG is there to protect the President, not the country; the Secretary of Energy is there to be sure the President has gas; the Secretary of Commerce is there to make the President richer... only one narcissistic man-child would actually believe that...

:roll:


Read Myers v. US which addresses executive power and the President’s power to fire Executive Branch Officer.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/272/52

GG


Ah, yes, a fine case from 1926 that directly addresses this particular situation. Wouldn’t expect anything less.

Since I wish to avoid a headache on a Saturday evening, how about answering this—notwithstanding your believe that such is allowable under the law do you believe it would have been ethical or appropriate to do so? I mean certainly you believe the ability to do so doesn’t create the obligation. Surely you agree that such an idea is patently absurd.
 
alfa164
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:17 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
And you don’t understand the AG and all the Justice Dep’t work for, wait for it,—the President. Nixon, Bork concluded correctly, could fire anyone in the Executive Branch.


That is patently false. The Attorney General and the Department of Justice work for the people of the United States; they do not represent the individual interests of the President, nor do they represent the interests of any other individual within the government. In times of conflict, those individuals - including the President - hire their own counsel to represent their interests (in Nixon's case, James St. Clair led his legal team).

The use of the AG's office, rather than the White House Counsel or outside counsel, is a serious violation of the role it plays - although this legality seems to be lost on the current occupant of the Oval Office (and,apparently, to his lemmings), who believes everyone surrounding him owes him a personal fealty.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The DoJ is not independent, but the day went down as the beginning of the end for Nixon.
GF


That, too, is false. The Attorney General is appointed by the President, and serves at the pleasure of the President, but remains - as does the Justice Department - independent. Following your claims, we would be left to suppose that the AG is there to protect the President, not the country; the Secretary of Energy is there to be sure the President has gas; the Secretary of Commerce is there to make the President richer... only one narcissistic man-child would actually believe that...

:roll:


Read Myers v. US which addresses executive power and the President’s power to fire Executive Branch Officer.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/272/52

GG


Apparently you cannot comprehend the law, and the Constitutional role of the various government departments. As I said, "The Attorney General is appointed by the President, and serves at the pleasure of the President, but remains - as does the Justice Department - independent." The president's ability to fire someone in no way means that an agency of the Federal Government is required or supposed to serve the best interests of any particular person; it merely means the president has the right to designate the Cabinet Member who serves as head of that that department. It in no way changes the mission of the department: to serve the American people, not the whims of the president.

Your "case" is irrelevant to the argument here.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20442
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:36 am

HOW DARE A PRESIDENT SLEEP WITH SOMEONE NOT HIS WIFE!!!

oh, wait....

HOW DARE A GOVERNOR HAVE A CHILDHOOD!!!

oh, wait....

HOW DARE A GOVERNOR BE HUMAN!!!

oh, wait...
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:40 am

seb146 wrote:
HOW DARE A PRESIDENT SLEEP WITH SOMEONE NOT HIS WIFE!!!

oh, wait....

HOW DARE A GOVERNOR HAVE A CHILDHOOD!!!

oh, wait....

HOW DARE A GOVERNOR BE HUMAN!!!

oh, wait...

He’s racist. Stop defending a racist.
 
alfa164
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:27 am

NIKV69 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
I doubt the man is racist.
But how the hell does something like this even make it to a yearbook?

I was thinking the same thing who proof read this thing?


It will be interesting to see if the yearbook editor - or even the photographer who took the offending photos - comes forward. I, too, wonder how these got included in what should be a professional school's yearbook.

Perhaps the journalism students went on and got a job at the National Inquirer.

;)


Magog wrote:
seb146 wrote:
HOW DARE A PRESIDENT SLEEP WITH SOMEONE NOT HIS WIFE!!!
oh, wait....
HOW DARE A GOVERNOR HAVE A CHILDHOOD!!!
oh, wait....
HOW DARE A GOVERNOR BE HUMAN!!!
oh, wait...

He’s racist. Stop defending a racist.


You have no substantive evidence to support that claim. And, as mentioned before, in your previous identity as a self-proclaimed ?moderate" you supported the most racist chief executive in recent history.

Playing provocateur may be fun, but it catches up with you...

;)
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14234
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:01 pm

The great hypocrite, President Trump, has called for the VA Governor to resign. I wouldn't be surprised if the Governor hasn't resigned by the SOTU speech on Tuesday, that the President will call for his quitting at it. I wonder if the men in the picture will be outed sometime soon and if one of them is the Governor, he is gone.
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:20 pm

alfa164 wrote:

You have no substantive evidence to support that claim. And, as mentioned before, in your previous identity as a self-proclaimed ?moderate" you supported the most racist chief executive in recent history.

Playing provocateur may be fun, but it catches up with you...

;)

My evidence is the yearbook photo and his admissions of dressing up in blackface. That is racist.

As for your other comments, I don’t even know what you are talking about.

Lots of defending racism here. I’d expect that from the people who voted for the Orange Cheeto Drumpf, but not from the left.
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 2625
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:22 pm

ltbewr wrote:
The great hypocrite, President Trump, has called for the VA Governor to resign. I wouldn't be surprised if the Governor hasn't resigned by the SOTU speech on Tuesday, that the President will call for his quitting at it. I wonder if the men in the picture will be outed sometime soon and if one of them is the Governor, he is gone.


As I said earlier, it is impossible to know if he is in the picture.

So far the only mistake the governor has made is in admitting publicly that he actually did do blackface when he dressed up as Michael Jackson for a dance contest. And then his wife had to tell him to not do the moonwalk in the presser because it would be inappropriate. (After a reporter asked if he still could.)

Since he admitted to that one instance, it's reasonable to assume it happened again. But the picture becomes irrelevant at this point.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11729
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:28 pm

ltbewr wrote:
The great hypocrite, President Trump, has called for the VA Governor to resign. I wouldn't be surprised if the Governor hasn't resigned by the SOTU speech on Tuesday, that the President will call for his quitting at it. I wonder if the men in the picture will be outed sometime soon and if one of them is the Governor, he is gone.


Trump is helping the governor by saying that.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:59 pm

Magog wrote:
As for your other comments, I don’t even know what you are talking about.


Well there’s a surprise.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20442
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:27 pm

Magog wrote:
seb146 wrote:
HOW DARE A PRESIDENT SLEEP WITH SOMEONE NOT HIS WIFE!!!

oh, wait....

HOW DARE A GOVERNOR HAVE A CHILDHOOD!!!

oh, wait....

HOW DARE A GOVERNOR BE HUMAN!!!

oh, wait...

He’s racist. Stop defending a racist.


I am just saying the Democratic party holds our own to a higher set of standards.

Also, do you know the context for that horrible picture? My senior year of high school, the homecoming theme for my class had something to do with stoned hippies, for some reason, I didn't get it. I still don't. There are pictures in my yearbook of classmates with over the top, Cheech & Chong type joints. It was not an endorsement by the school of marijuana, it was not letting the world know that we all got high. It was group mentality. 200 people thinking with one brain.

He probably was racist at the time and there is no defense for a picture like that. I tried but even I don't believe it other than he has changed but he should still step down. Because, as I have been saying, Democrats hold our own to a higher standard.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 12673
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:59 pm

seb146 wrote:

I am just saying the Democratic party holds our own to a higher set of standards.

Also, do you know the context for that horrible picture? My senior year of high school, the homecoming theme for my class had something to do with stoned hippies, for some reason, I didn't get it. I still don't. There are pictures in my yearbook of classmates with over the top, Cheech & Chong type joints. It was not an endorsement by the school of marijuana, it was not letting the world know that we all got high. It was group mentality. 200 people thinking with one brain.

He probably was racist at the time and there is no defense for a picture like that. I tried but even I don't believe it other than he has changed but he should still step down. Because, as I have been saying, Democrats hold our own to a higher standard.


To quote a famous person. Hogwash!

How do you know how the Dem party holds anyone to any standard? Stop with the holier than thou routine because it's born from more of your partisanship. We aren't going to buy your fantasy that the Dem party keeps a higher standard when it comes to racism. That is a bunch of crap. For if your statement was true the entire black Caucus wouldn't be posing for pictures with Louis Farrakhan.

As for this Governor we will never know all the facts here or how he really feels about the African American race. All we know is it is dominating the news cycle because the Dems have to let us know how they feel about racism before a huge election in two years.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:19 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
How do you know how the Dem party holds anyone to any standard? Stop with the holier than thou routine because it's born from more of your partisanship. We aren't going to buy your fantasy that the Dem party keeps a higher standard when it comes to racism. That is a bunch of crap. For if your statement was true the entire black Caucus wouldn't be posing for pictures with Louis Farrakhan.


Nikky surely at one point you learned how to count? Surely you understand the concept of degree. Have you ever heard the term order of magnitude?

Surely you understand the difference between a whole group of elected officials and perennial candidates who openly use racist dog whistles or pursue policies widely regarded as having racist aims? Surely you understand whole group of openly racist and nationalist groups latching itself on to a political party and that party turning little more than a blind eye to such behavior so that they continue pulling down votes from said racists and nationalists.

Or maybe not.

You seem to think saying "How do you know how the Dem party holds anyone to any standard?" is some sort of refutation.

So you'd probably understand, "How do you not know?"

Ah . . . yes . . . LOUIS FARRAKHAN.

You are absolutely off the rails, Nikky. Either that or just engaging in good ole gaslighting.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20442
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:19 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

I am just saying the Democratic party holds our own to a higher set of standards.

Also, do you know the context for that horrible picture? My senior year of high school, the homecoming theme for my class had something to do with stoned hippies, for some reason, I didn't get it. I still don't. There are pictures in my yearbook of classmates with over the top, Cheech & Chong type joints. It was not an endorsement by the school of marijuana, it was not letting the world know that we all got high. It was group mentality. 200 people thinking with one brain.

He probably was racist at the time and there is no defense for a picture like that. I tried but even I don't believe it other than he has changed but he should still step down. Because, as I have been saying, Democrats hold our own to a higher standard.


To quote a famous person. Hogwash!

How do you know how the Dem party holds anyone to any standard? Stop with the holier than thou routine because it's born from more of your partisanship. We aren't going to buy your fantasy that the Dem party keeps a higher standard when it comes to racism. That is a bunch of crap. For if your statement was true the entire black Caucus wouldn't be posing for pictures with Louis Farrakhan.

As for this Governor we will never know all the facts here or how he really feels about the African American race. All we know is it is dominating the news cycle because the Dems have to let us know how they feel about racism before a huge election in two years.


Project much?

David Duke, Steve King, the current occupant of the White House, Roy Moore.... All Republicans who received "meh, whatever" reactions from the Republican party. Compare that with Al Franken and Northam.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3518
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:05 pm

jetero wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

That is patently false. The Attorney General and the Department of Justice work for the people of the United States; they do not represent the individual interests of the President, nor do they represent the interests of any other individual within the government. In times of conflict, those individuals - including the President - hire their own counsel to represent their interests (in Nixon's case, James St. Clair led his legal team).

The use of the AG's office, rather than the White House Counsel or outside counsel, is a serious violation of the role it plays - although this legality seems to be lost on the current occupant of the Oval Office (and,apparently, to his lemmings), who believes everyone surrounding him owes him a personal fealty.



That, too, is false. The Attorney General is appointed by the President, and serves at the pleasure of the President, but remains - as does the Justice Department - independent. Following your claims, we would be left to suppose that the AG is there to protect the President, not the country; the Secretary of Energy is there to be sure the President has gas; the Secretary of Commerce is there to make the President richer... only one narcissistic man-child would actually believe that...

:roll:


Read Myers v. US which addresses executive power and the President’s power to fire Executive Branch Officer.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/272/52

GG


Ah, yes, a fine case from 1926 that directly addresses this particular situation. Wouldn’t expect anything less.

Since I wish to avoid a headache on a Saturday evening, how about answering this—notwithstanding your believe that such is allowable under the law do you believe it would have been ethical or appropriate to do so? I mean certainly you believe the ability to do so doesn’t create the obligation. Surely you agree that such an idea is patently absurd.


The appropriateness is about politics and optics, but he still serves at the pleasure of the President as does every cabinet secretary. He is certainly not obligated to fire a cabinet secretary. Every President has a lawyer to defend him as a citizen, the Office of the President has a legal team. Bring a common law country the case applies and confirms the relationship and still holds.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3518
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:08 pm

alfa164 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

That is patently false. The Attorney General and the Department of Justice work for the people of the United States; they do not represent the individual interests of the President, nor do they represent the interests of any other individual within the government. In times of conflict, those individuals - including the President - hire their own counsel to represent their interests (in Nixon's case, James St. Clair led his legal team).

The use of the AG's office, rather than the White House Counsel or outside counsel, is a serious violation of the role it plays - although this legality seems to be lost on the current occupant of the Oval Office (and,apparently, to his lemmings), who believes everyone surrounding him owes him a personal fealty.



That, too, is false. The Attorney General is appointed by the President, and serves at the pleasure of the President, but remains - as does the Justice Department - independent. Following your claims, we would be left to suppose that the AG is there to protect the President, not the country; the Secretary of Energy is there to be sure the President has gas; the Secretary of Commerce is there to make the President richer... only one narcissistic man-child would actually believe that...

:roll:


Read Myers v. US which addresses executive power and the President’s power to fire Executive Branch Officer.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/272/52

GG


Apparently you cannot comprehend the law, and the Constitutional role of the various government departments. As I said, "The Attorney General is appointed by the President, and serves at the pleasure of the President, but remains - as does the Justice Department - independent." The president's ability to fire someone in no way means that an agency of the Federal Government is required or supposed to serve the best interests of any particular person; it merely means the president has the right to designate the Cabinet Member who serves as head of that that department. It in no way changes the mission of the department: to serve the American people, not the whims of the president.

Your "case" is irrelevant to the argument here.


I didn’t argue the “mission” of the DoJ, just who serves as the AG is determined by the President after Senate confirmation. His or her tenure in the office is a Presidential decision which affects nothing on the mission.

GF
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:25 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
jetero wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Read Myers v. US which addresses executive power and the President’s power to fire Executive Branch Officer.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/272/52

GG


Ah, yes, a fine case from 1926 that directly addresses this particular situation. Wouldn’t expect anything less.

Since I wish to avoid a headache on a Saturday evening, how about answering this—notwithstanding your believe that such is allowable under the law do you believe it would have been ethical or appropriate to do so? I mean certainly you believe the ability to do so doesn’t create the obligation. Surely you agree that such an idea is patently absurd.


The appropriateness is about politics and optics, but he still serves at the pleasure of the President as does every cabinet secretary. He is certainly not obligated to fire a cabinet secretary. Every President has a lawyer to defend him as a citizen, the Office of the President has a legal team. Bring a common law country the case applies and confirms the relationship and still holds.


Glad you agree.

So if an army of legal staff who were directed to do the same thing as Bork did decided to resign for ethical reasons, well then I'm sure you can acknowledge that his lack of doing so may be of concern during a confirmation hearing.

Which is, after all, the topic that we were discussing.
 
apodino
Posts: 3557
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Looks like the Governor of Virginia has a lot of explaining to do

Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:50 pm

There is no way he survives politically. He admitted he was in the picture, then retracted the admission and came up with a bizzare Michael Jackson story. This seems to be a classic case of the cover up is worse than the crime, and its just another crooked politician doing anything to hold on to power. But this raises a lot of questions.

1. How did Gillespie's opposition research team not uncover this prior to the 2017? If they had, this would have been the ultimate October surprise and I don't see how Northam ever would have gotten elected.

2. Or did the GOP establishment in fact do so, and held onto this hoping to throw the election to hurt Trump? It is no secret the GOP establishment hates Trump and wants him gone. But no one can publicly oppose him, because too much of the GOP base is firmly behind him. (Though if he fails to get the wall, this support will also crumble)

3. Did the DNC vet Northam at all? And do the parties need to vet their nominees better before elections? But...would doing so make the elections less democratic and more in the hands of political elites rather than the people?

4. If Governor Northam doesn't resign and continues to insist on staying in office, could he be impeached by the legislature? Does Virginia have a recall provision?


I heard Steve King's name brought up as well in this. Here is my take on this. Steve King is a slimeball who should not be in office period. That being said, everything about him was known and the voters knew he was racist and elected him anyways, despite I believe even Ted Cruz endorsing the democrat in the race. The voters in Virginia did not know about this and have this knowledge of Northam at the time of the election. The former is on the voters. The latter is not.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Airontario, alfa164, EstherLouise, NIKV69 and 32 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos