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compensateme
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:13 pm

mham001 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Brilliant.

How many public transpiration, public schools, those on long term disability, health care, disadvantaged seniors, or college students with debt pay taxes in the first place?


Uh, many people on LTD, many disadvantaged seniors and many college students pay federal and (if applicable) state taxes.


More brilliance.

I take it you've never actually filed? You have to make money to pay federal and state income taxes. You don't pay any federal or state income tax until you reach certain levels of income. If you don't reach those levels, you can often even get extra money back. "college students with debt" pay ZERO taxes. LTD depends on the source of the income,

The notion that public transportation and public schools should get a "tax break" is hilarious.


You’re wrong. CPA / MST here, I’m not somebody repeating Fox News talking points.

For example...Any college student who earned above the standard deduction + elgible education credits (if applicable) will pay taxes. Debt has nothing to do with anything, as student loans repayments are deferred while in college (student loan interest becomes an above line deduction after repayment, but this is minimal). Most college students work a PT job and will pay some tax... and some - especially co-op and business students pursing an internship, as well as most graduate stidenrs - will pay a lot more. And I know from personal experience...my senior year I did a co-op and had nearly $60k in taxable income. Oh, to not pay taxes would’ve been nice.

Try again.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
mham001
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:23 pm

2122M wrote:
mham001 wrote:
compensateme wrote:

Uh, many people on LTD, many disadvantaged seniors and many college students pay federal and (if applicable) state taxes.


More brilliance.

I take it you've never actually filed? You have to make money to pay federal and state income taxes. You don't pay any federal or state income tax until you reach certain levels of income. If you don't reach those levels, you can often even get extra money back. "college students with debt" pay ZERO taxes. LTD depends on the source of the income. a "disadvantaged" senior is probably not paying anything either, if they exceed income levels, then maybe they are not all that "disadvantaged"?

The notion that public transportation and public schools should get a "tax break" is hilarious.


Income taxes maybe, but what about property taxes?


How many people in those groups actually own property?

But that is exactly why California has Prop 13 rules - to prevent the state from jacking people out of their homes.
 
Magog
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:24 pm

If you think those tax breaks are now going to the less privileged, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
 
mham001
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:26 pm

compensateme wrote:
mham001 wrote:
compensateme wrote:

Uh, many people on LTD, many disadvantaged seniors and many college students pay federal and (if applicable) state taxes.


More brilliance.

I take it you've never actually filed? You have to make money to pay federal and state income taxes. You don't pay any federal or state income tax until you reach certain levels of income. If you don't reach those levels, you can often even get extra money back. "college students with debt" pay ZERO taxes. LTD depends on the source of the income,

The notion that public transportation and public schools should get a "tax break" is hilarious.


You’re wrong. CPA / MST here, I’m not somebody repeating Fox News talking points.

For example...Any college student who earned above the standard deduction + elgible education credits (if applicable) will pay taxes. Debt has nothing to do with anything, as student loans repayments are deferred while in college (student loan interest becomes an above line deduction after repayment, but this is minimal). Most college students work a PT job and will pay some tax... and some - especially co-op and business students pursing an internship, as well as most graduate stidenrs - will pay a lot more. And I know from personal experience...my senior year I did a co-op and had nearly $60k in taxable income. Oh, to not pay taxes would’ve been nice.

Try again.


If you made $60k as an intern, why in hell shouldn't you pay taxes?
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:02 pm

910A wrote:
Wrong again..


Wow would of loved to been in the room when Cuomo got that news. It must of been like Hillary's election night meltdown. Wow just wow.

Pi7472000 wrote:
This is a huge win for the people!! Give those tax breaks to public transpiration, public schools, those on long term disability, health care, small business, disadvantaged seniors, or college students with debt etc.! Corporations like Amazon do not need public subsidies or tax break. It is gross we do this for large, profitable companies, but not for other sectors. The people of New York who spoke up against large corporations have a huge victory today! There definitely is a divide in the Democrat Party between wealthy, pro-business/money Democrats and those on the left who actually put the interests of people first!


You don't know NYC too well. Either way I don't live there (Thank God) but even though I agree the amount they were giving Amazon was too much the jobs could have helped but in AOCs world she doesn't understand working and actually earning what you receive.

Dieuwer wrote:
Why should a large corp like Amazon get billions in tax breaks/handouts while the small mom-n-pop restaurant around the corner gets nothing?
On top of that, Bezos has plenty of billions of his own to fund headquarters 2.0


You never heard of Home Depot? Many small mom and pops stores have succumbed to the big box stores and now the Amazon will put more out of business. Amazon will just to go another state and build this facility. So people in that state can get good jobs. Nothing was won here and too much was lost but that is that California way and it's taking hold in NY now. Nanny state high tax places where you can't live unless you make 200k a year. As I stated before I am so glad I am gone soon.

mham001 wrote:

How many public transpiration, public schools, those on long term disability, health care, disadvantaged seniors, or college students with debt pay taxes in the first place?


They don't, remember this is about hating people that work hard and are successful and make them pay their fair share. They probably pay half the tax burden why not pay all? It's madness.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
Okie
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:10 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Not when doing so will further escalate the exodus out of the state.


Well Nik looking like Pocahontas is putting another feather in her bonnet and AOC is taking a victory lap.
They sure do not want it on record that they created a single job for their constituency they are suppose to represent. :roll:

Okie




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2122M
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:30 pm

I don't understand the position of the right-wing crowd here. Conservatives have traditionally wanted government to stay out of business, but here the government got massively involved in business by offering to subsidize HQ2. Is that part of this not upsetting to you guys?

In this case, its the left to stood up to this government intrusion into corporate matters and it seems the right is bent out of shape about that.

For what its worth, I think the whole HQ2 search was absurd and embarrassing for all the cities that participated. Cities and states should be writing tax code they can stand behind when push comes to shove, but when Amazon came knocking, a whole host of governors and mayors decided their tax code was garbage and tried to re-write the rules to kowtow to a big corporation.

If all of the governors and mayors of this country has collectively decided not to participate in Amazon's dog and pony show, then Amazon would have still have to build an HQ2, only they would have to decide based on (among other things) existing tax code written and agreed upon by democratically elected state and local governments. Chances are, localities that need a big boost like this would have already written tax code to encourage it and would be rewarded for their foresight. Or NYC would have gotten it anyway due to the talent pool and transit connections.

Either way, this whole search has been an embarrassment and has been proof that big corporations have way too much power in this country.
 
Okie
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:06 pm

2122M wrote:
Either way, this whole search has been an embarrassment and has been proof that big corporations have way too much power in this country.


Well, comrade at least at this point Bezos is at least keeping the employment in this country much to your disdain from your comments.


Okie



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2122M
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:47 pm

Okie wrote:
2122M wrote:
Either way, this whole search has been an embarrassment and has been proof that big corporations have way too much power in this country.


Well, comrade at least at this point Bezos is at least keeping the employment in this country much to your disdain from your comments.


Okie



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Just curious, what did I say to make you think I hate employment?
 
NIKV69
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:52 pm

Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:57 pm

I hope it goes to a more deserving place, like maybe Iowa or South Dakota. Then, Bezos can see something other than SEA.

gf
 
StarAC17
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:58 am

jetero wrote:
Quite honestly the idea of NY State and Northern Virginia subsidizing Amazon is ridiculous and should be against the law on interstate commerce clause grounds. I really hope the Democrats will make this part of their platform. How are states like West Virginia supposed to recover and build new industries when they don’t have any money to throw at companies? Michigan still has money, keeps on throwing it at companies, and how has that worked out?

Bezos is complaining about extortion with AMI (and I agree it is), but what Amazon did is another form of extortion. It’s absolutely vomitous.

Not sure why the right wing rags aren’t running with that story. It’d resonate way more with people.

And Nikky, as I am starting to get to know you, not sure why you would be cheerleading a governor who did this to begin with. New York State is not New York City. If you want economic development, there are better places in New York than Long Island City.


How about no corporate welfare at all for anything. I tend to be in support of green technology and think the green new deal is viable but I would concede that no corporation should get any tax breaks or subsidies of any kind. Actually let a free market be free.

I am in support of the government contracting private business for services such as infrastructure but no tax incentives. This is a shakedown just like how sports owners demand taxpayers pay for a stadium that they can easily pay or get investments for.

2122M wrote:
I don't understand the position of the right-wing crowd here. Conservatives have traditionally wanted government to stay out of business, but here the government got massively involved in business by offering to subsidize HQ2. Is that part of this not upsetting to you guys?

In this case, its the left to stood up to this government intrusion into corporate matters and it seems the right is bent out of shape about that.

For what its worth, I think the whole HQ2 search was absurd and embarrassing for all the cities that participated. Cities and states should be writing tax code they can stand behind when push comes to shove, but when Amazon came knocking, a whole host of governors and mayors decided their tax code was garbage and tried to re-write the rules to kowtow to a big corporation.

If all of the governors and mayors of this country has collectively decided not to participate in Amazon's dog and pony show, then Amazon would have still have to build an HQ2, only they would have to decide based on (among other things) existing tax code written and agreed upon by democratically elected state and local governments. Chances are, localities that need a big boost like this would have already written tax code to encourage it and would be rewarded for their foresight. Or NYC would have gotten it anyway due to the talent pool and transit connections.

Either way, this whole search has been an embarrassment and has been proof that big corporations have way too much power in this country.


Conservatives want the government involved in their businesses. Subsidies for oil and gas and defense are fine but hell no when it comes to liberal business like solar, wind and tech. Yes this is a generalization but their is truth to it, why does the fossil fuel industry needs any government assistance.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
Flaps
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:49 am

The Amazon HQ2 is going to ruin whatever community it settles in. It's really not a loss for anyone. Look at Seattle. Used to be a pretty great place. Now, not so much.
 
Magog
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:59 am

Flaps wrote:
The Amazon HQ2 is going to ruin whatever community it settles in. It's really not a loss for anyone. Look at Seattle. Used to be a pretty great place. Now, not so much.

I’m not a fan of corporate welfare, but I am a fan of good jobs. Good jobs don’t “ruin” a community. Quite the opposite. Spend some time in Flint, Michigan and you’ll agree.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:56 pm

2122M wrote:
mham001 wrote:
compensateme wrote:

Uh, many people on LTD, many disadvantaged seniors and many college students pay federal and (if applicable) state taxes.


More brilliance.

I take it you've never actually filed? You have to make money to pay federal and state income taxes. You don't pay any federal or state income tax until you reach certain levels of income. If you don't reach those levels, you can often even get extra money back. "college students with debt" pay ZERO taxes. LTD depends on the source of the income. a "disadvantaged" senior is probably not paying anything either, if they exceed income levels, then maybe they are not all that "disadvantaged"?

The notion that public transportation and public schools should get a "tax break" is hilarious.


Income taxes maybe, but what about property taxes?

And payroll taxes.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
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johnboy
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:36 pm

mham001 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Brilliant.

How many public transpiration, public schools, those on long term disability, health care, disadvantaged seniors, or college students with debt pay taxes in the first place?


Uh, many people on LTD, many disadvantaged seniors and many college students pay federal and (if applicable) state taxes.


More brilliance.

I take it you've never actually filed? You have to make money to pay federal and state income taxes. You don't pay any federal or state income tax until you reach certain levels of income. If you don't reach those levels, you can often even get extra money back. "college students with debt" pay ZERO income tax - unless they are working full time. LTD depends on the source of the income. a "disadvantaged" senior is probably not paying anything either, if they exceed income levels, then maybe they are not all that "disadvantaged"?

The notion that public transportation and public schools should get a "tax break" is hilarious.



So, since I know people in every category of which you speak, you’re basically talking out of your rectal cavity.

Brilliance.
 
Pyrex
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:40 pm

I frankly couldn't care less whether Amazon comes to NYC or not, but just found out that NY was going to give Bezos a right to build a rooftop helipad in his headquarters. Rooftop helipads are forbidden by law in NYC. Plenty of very wealthy people would love to build rooftop helipads in their buildings in NYC, but are forbidden from doing so for alleged safety reasons. Those safety reasons apparently do not apply if you are a liberal darling who owns the Washington Post and use it to conduct campaign against certain duly elected politicians, though.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
2122M
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:57 pm

Pyrex wrote:
I frankly couldn't care less whether Amazon comes to NYC or not, but just found out that NY was going to give Bezos a right to build a rooftop helipad in his headquarters. Rooftop helipads are forbidden by law in NYC. Plenty of very wealthy people would love to build rooftop helipads in their buildings in NYC, but are forbidden from doing so for alleged safety reasons. Those safety reasons apparently do not apply if you are a liberal darling who owns the Washington Post and use it to conduct campaign against certain duly elected politicians, though.


You do know it was liberals that 86ed this deal, right? And they did so because they felt too many special concessions were given to Amazon, right?
 
mham001
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:45 pm

johnboy wrote:
So, since I know people in every category of which you speak, you’re basically talking out of your rectal cavity.


Well I guess that well-rounded response proves without doubt that you know federal tax law. My bad.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:17 pm

I see this Amazon HQ2 fiasco as a good thing for America. For decades corporations pitted states against states, cities against cities in this bidding war.

Amazon with all its excessive drama put the spotlight on this prisoner dilemma states, counties and cities are facing.

It is OK not to compete.
 
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johnboy
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:33 pm

mham001 wrote:
johnboy wrote:
So, since I know people in every category of which you speak, you’re basically talking out of your rectal cavity.


Well I guess that well-rounded response proves without doubt that you know federal tax law. My bad.


Indeed.

Like Vairst Leddy say: “Be Best next time, “ and don’t assume you know so much. :roll:
 
ltbewr
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:11 am

New York City residents and their pressuring politicians have kept Walmart from having any stores in NYC, even in Staten Island, but allow all the other big box store chains, including Target and for decades, K-Mart, even in Manhattan. Walmart has huge stores in Long Island, New Jersey, Westchester County not far from the city. Many 'left wing' types saw Walmart as an evil empire, paying 90% of staff near minimum wages and also likely to look for favor in tax deals and go around local politicians (and not give them bribes). Like Walmart, Amazon is seen by enough in NYC as the 'dark empire' that would wipes small and locally businesses.
In the end maybe Amazon is making the right moves for themselves, instead of a huge HQ2, just expand to other lower cost areas, as will be doing in Arlington, VA and Nashville, TN. Not everyone wants to move to NYC, SF or Seattle.
 
mham001
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:13 am

johnboy wrote:
mham001 wrote:
johnboy wrote:
So, since I know people in every category of which you speak, you’re basically talking out of your rectal cavity.


Well I guess that well-rounded response proves without doubt that you know federal tax law. My bad.


Indeed.

Like Vairst Leddy say: “Be Best next time, “ and don’t assume you know so much. :roll:


Proving being a dumbass is not just an act.

Now go look at the tax tables.....
 
stratosphere
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:44 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
This is a huge win for the people!! Give those tax breaks to public transpiration, public schools, those on long term disability, health care, small business, disadvantaged seniors, or college students with debt etc.! Corporations like Amazon do not need public subsidies or tax break. It is gross we do this for large, profitable companies, but not for other sectors. The people of New York who spoke up against large corporations have a huge victory today! There definitely is a divide in the Democrat Party between wealthy, pro-business/money Democrats and those on the left who actually put the interests of people first!


Hey I would love to not see multi billion dollar companies get huge tax incentives but sometimes you have to see the big picture. How many jobs were going to possibly come to NYC? ..25K? So those future employees would have to live fairly close and they pay taxes and they buy lunch which feeds the local food vendors etc...Get the point? Those incentives while generous would more than pay for themselves with that many people being employed there..You liberals can't let your blind hate for capitalism actually blind you into not seeing the advantages overall. But hey you all in NYC voted for AOC you all got what you deserve.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:22 am

Ken777 wrote:
There are plenty of states that would come up with some decent offers if Amazon decides to look around again. I can't get excited about battles in NY over Amazon getting. good deal to bring in 25,000 jobs.


Amazon is one of the wealthiest companies in the world why should they be given any tax breaks or special treatment, they can afford to move anywhere they want without recourse to public funds and subsidies.
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:17 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
There are plenty of states that would come up with some decent offers if Amazon decides to look around again. I can't get excited about battles in NY over Amazon getting. good deal to bring in 25,000 jobs.


Amazon is one of the wealthiest companies in the world why should they be given any tax breaks or special treatment, they can afford to move anywhere they want without recourse to public funds and subsidies.


GE got some huge tax breaks during the Obama administration, I would wager multi billion as well. Since Jeffery Immelt was an Obama crony he got a total pass. So now Bezos is the boogie man? I agree Amazon should have paid more in taxes but what AOC and the rest of her socialist minions did was stupid.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
max999
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:51 am

CNBC: Amazon will pay $0 in federal taxes this year — and it's partially thanks to Trump. Amazon nearly doubled its taxable income in 2018 to $11.2 billion, from $5.6 billion a year earlier.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/15/ama ... -year.html

Initially, I was upset that a minority and the wild political prices in New York were able to push out Amazon. Then I saw this article and I realize the opponents may be right about Amazon's tax situation. If they are already paying zero in Federal taxes, they certainly don't need the $5 billion or so in tax breaks from the state. And they don't need tax breaks from any other state either.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
Magog
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:05 pm

It’s a horrible game for local governments. You lose if you play and you lose if you don’t play.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:23 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
There are plenty of states that would come up with some decent offers if Amazon decides to look around again. I can't get excited about battles in NY over Amazon getting. good deal to bring in 25,000 jobs.


Amazon is one of the wealthiest companies in the world why should they be given any tax breaks or special treatment, they can afford to move anywhere they want without recourse to public funds and subsidies.


GE got some huge tax breaks during the Obama administration, I would wager multi billion as well. Since Jeffery Immelt was an Obama crony he got a total pass. So now Bezos is the boogie man? I agree Amazon should have paid more in taxes but what AOC and the rest of her socialist minions did was stupid.


This is a thread about Amazon, but you’re right corporate welfare is wrong, it doesn’t benefit anyone except the corporations shareholders and it screws the taxpayer. GE shouldn’t be getting govt assistance, neither should Walmart or anyone else.
 
mham001
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:07 pm

max999 wrote:
CNBC: Amazon will pay $0 in federal taxes this year — and it's partially thanks to Trump. Amazon nearly doubled its taxable income in 2018 to $11.2 billion, from $5.6 billion a year earlier.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/15/ama ... -year.html

Initially, I was upset that a minority and the wild political prices in New York were able to push out Amazon. Then I saw this article and I realize the opponents may be right about Amazon's tax situation. If they are already paying zero in Federal taxes, they certainly don't need the $5 billion or so in tax breaks from the state. And they don't need tax breaks from any other state either.


This kind of journalism should be illegal. Buried in the second to last paragraph, we we are finally told WHY Amazon has no federal tax bill. I could have told you this, as could any other person with even a bit of knowledge about business..."For what it's worth"

"For what it's worth, Amazon said in its recent corporate filing that those federal tax credits "are primarily related to the U.S. federal research and development credit," a common tax credit for companies that spend money on research in the U.S. in order to grow their businesses."

Amazon is famous for doing this, why do you think they keep coming up with new stuff people like? RESEARCH, money spent on research has never been taxed, nor should it be - doing so would stifle innovation. Do you want US companies developing new products, or not? At some point, they will indeed be paying plenty to the feds.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:45 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... e=Homepage

A useful discussion why the Brooklyn package failed, and the Virginia one succeeded. Roughly speaking, Virginia engaged all stakeholders. And the largest 'subsidy' was not to Amazon but to worker training and infrastructure.

And an aside: Amazon's $100 - 150K salaries are really not enough to buy a house in Brooklyn, Queens likely would see those sorts of prices, had the deal gone through.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
anrec80
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:12 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I see this Amazon HQ2 fiasco as a good thing for America. For decades corporations pitted states against states, cities against cities in this bidding war.

Amazon with all its excessive drama put the spotlight on this prisoner dilemma states, counties and cities are facing.

It is OK not to compete.


Well, think of this “pitting states against states” as competition of jurisdicitons. It’s not only state vs state, city vs city, it’s also on global scale - a major city in one country vs a major city in another. This is not unlike business competition for a customer - where most efficient business wins. Those states and cities that have simplest and cheapest to comply with regulations, lowest taxes (both on businesses and employees) - yet while providing quality services and meet the demand of businesses (such as talent pool, education systems, quality of living) - win. Win companies, offices, jobs, opportunities for their residents. Those cities who are stuck on their “fair share” and “contribution to the community” things - like New York - lose, not being able to attract tax base to provide quality services and become better places to live, work and do business.

The problem with New York liberals - is that for today’s competition of jurisdictions they have wrong mindset. Focused on “fair share”, “contributions to the community”, “affordable housing”, and stuff. While if you are a business and want to win in competition - the right mindset is what? “How can we provide the most value to our customer?” - right? Same applies here - the City must have asked “how can we be the best environment for businesses to come, prosper here and be more efficient than if they were run elsewhere?” - agree? Obviously, they need to optimize expenditures, lower tax burden, simplify building regulations, etc.

So yes, it’s OK to not compete, but this is a recipe for losing and going down. Not improving. Other cities, like Newark NJ or Dallas, will enter such competition, attract prosperous businesses, and prosper with these businesses.
 
anrec80
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:19 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
This is a thread about Amazon, but you’re right corporate welfare is wrong, it doesn’t benefit anyone except the corporations shareholders and it screws the taxpayer. GE shouldn’t be getting govt assistance, neither should Walmart or anyone else.


This is not really corporate welfare, this is more like competition of the cities. New York has the one of the highest tax burdens in the country, having some unique taxes that no other region in the country has (such as Metro Transporation payroll tax, corporate surtax of 3% that also goes to MTA). Yes, 3lbn sounds like a lot. Though - other cities, say, Dallas doesn’t give a lot, but they also don’t tax anywhere as much. So such subsidy was required in order for Amazon to make sense out of such move financially.

A similar situation in business - you have a great suit of products and services, but your competitor offers a similar one for lower fee. You really want this customer - what do you do? You have to entice them by giving something else for free, offer a rebate, a discount, etc - right? Same here.
 
anrec80
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:23 pm

stratosphere wrote:
You liberals can't let your blind hate for capitalism actually blind you into not seeing the advantages overall. But hey you all in NYC voted for AOC you all got what you deserve.


Well, though I don’t share liberal viewpoints - being a software developer in NYC, I find this to be great news for myself. Oddly enough, and knowing Amazon as someone who used to work there. Amazon has huge attrition, and such companies are one of biggest H1B sponsors. Meaning they will bring a lot of foreigners with H1Bs into the City. Then these people work there for a 1-1.5 years, get settled in the USA, get their green cards - and hit the local NYC IT job market. Something of rather limited value, obviously.
 
anrec80
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:28 pm

2122M wrote:
In a city of 8.5 million people, you were concerned about what a few thousand new amazon employees might do to the gender ratio. And you managed to broadcast a sexist stereotype while you are at it?

Even if you were joking, its really interesting that your mind would even go there to be honest.


Well, this was intended as a joke, obviously. Even though it’s only partly a joke. I’ve lived in Seattle and worked for this company. They (along with Microsoft) bring a lot of younger guys with H1Bs (and from other states as well, obviously). Then these guys work for Amazon for a bit and oftentimes stay in the area, expectedly. And demographics in mid 20s-early 30s range is screwed up in Seattle badly due to this. If you are a single guy in Seattle struggling to find someone - the first advice is “get the f-k out of Seattle!”.

Speaking of male/female ratio - well, I am a single guy. Isn’t it common topic among guys to talk about such things? Lol.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:41 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
This is a thread about Amazon, but you’re right corporate welfare is wrong, it doesn’t benefit anyone except the corporations shareholders and it screws the taxpayer. GE shouldn’t be getting govt assistance, neither should Walmart or anyone else.


Well it's more about fringe politics controlling the discussion. People like Amazon need a tax rate that is fair. Not too high and not dropping your pants and giving them the house. The middle of the road politicians were not heard and are never heard. Also compounding the problem are they plenty of states that will cave just to get them to come. So I can't blame Amazon for pulling out.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:35 pm

anrec80 wrote:
The problem with New York liberals - is that for today’s competition of jurisdictions they have wrong mindset. Focused on “fair share”, “contributions to the community”, “affordable housing”, and stuff. While if you are a business and want to win in competition - the right mindset is what? “How can we provide the most value to our customer?” - right? Same applies here - the City must have asked “how can we be the best environment for businesses to come, prosper here and be more efficient than if they were run elsewhere?” - agree? Obviously, they need to optimize expenditures, lower tax burden, simplify building regulations, etc.

So yes, it’s OK to not compete, but this is a recipe for losing and going down. Not improving. Other cities, like Newark NJ or Dallas, will enter such competition, attract prosperous businesses, and prosper with these businesses.


Isn't Bezos a liberal-leaning businessman? Why would liberals don't want him?

I personally think the total cost to the city will be close to $10 Billion. $3 Billion in lost tax revenue and $7 Billion in infrastructure to support this behemoth.

Is Seatlle asking Amazon to help with homelessness a crime, it started looking for some other place? What is the guarantee NYC/NOVA will not have the same issues in the future?
 
NIKV69
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:57 pm

Amazon fighting back. Interesting. I am sure the Democratic party was not looking for a fight with Bezos but they are getting it. AOC made comments saying the working conditions at Amazon are poor (Ridiculous)
Amazon has invited to come see.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/amazon ... h8BYn-uqws
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:18 pm

Amazon is quite capable of looking after itself. Cities and states have a responsibility to do the same. Amazon has already said that it will be hiring more people in the NYC area (and looking forward to the same). It is not impossible that it could be a few tens of thousands in the next 20 years.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:17 am

I'm glad that Texas didn't get the Amazon influx of Libs. We're beto off without them.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
anrec80
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:36 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Isn't Bezos a liberal-leaning businessman? Why would liberals don't want him?


How does that matter? Corporate legislature in the USA requires Bezos to put the financial interests of his company and its shareholders first. Regardless of his personal beliefs. If an Amazon shareholder proves, that he put some other considerations upfront (even if it's "giving back to community", "social fairness", etc.) - he is risking to go to jail simply. Sorry, but this is not only a matter of "corporate greed", this is how legislature in the USA is written. Any CEO would be required to have such priorities in making their decisions.

dtw2hyd wrote:
Is Seatlle asking Amazon to help with homelessness a crime, it started looking for some other place? What is the guarantee NYC/NOVA will not have the same issues in the future?


So why are we mixing up homelessness and obligations of corporate officials? Yes, homelessness is an ugly problem, and history of various nations shows that it in fact does have solutions. Solutions aren't always liberal and sexy, but they do exist. Those are two separate things. In my view, homelessness isn't fault of any corporate officers, corporations and the likes. It's more about individuals not willing to make right hard decisions about their lives on time.
 
anrec80
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:39 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Amazon fighting back. Interesting. I am sure the Democratic party was not looking for a fight with Bezos but they are getting it. AOC made comments saying the working conditions at Amazon are poor (Ridiculous)
Amazon has invited to come see.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/amazon ... h8BYn-uqws


As a former employee of Amazon, I am of good impression of people there. Yes, company is a bit odd culture-wise, and in my view it's not for everyone. But same can be said about many other companies. I'd say - if the team and type of work is right, I would not mind coming back. AOC here is just trying to gain visibility here. Hopefully she doesn't last in Congress.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:13 pm

anrec80 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Isn't Bezos a liberal-leaning businessman? Why would liberals don't want him?


How does that matter? Corporate legislature in the USA requires Bezos to put the financial interests of his company and its shareholders first. Regardless of his personal beliefs. If an Amazon shareholder proves, that he put some other considerations upfront (even if it's "giving back to community", "social fairness", etc.) - he is risking to go to jail simply. Sorry, but this is not only a matter of "corporate greed", this is how legislature in the USA is written. Any CEO would be required to have such priorities in making their decisions.

dtw2hyd wrote:
Is Seatlle asking Amazon to help with homelessness a crime, it started looking for some other place? What is the guarantee NYC/NOVA will not have the same issues in the future?


So why are we mixing up homelessness and obligations of corporate officials? Yes, homelessness is an ugly problem, and history of various nations shows that it in fact does have solutions. Solutions aren't always liberal and sexy, but they do exist. Those are two separate things. In my view, homelessness isn't fault of any corporate officers, corporations and the likes. It's more about individuals not willing to make right hard decisions about their lives on time.


Your entire writing proves New York liberals are correct. They put their residents' interests above someone else's corporate interest and Amazon doesn't have a corporate responsibility towards the community.

Read about Amazon's last mile no-benefit workforce and Amazon Basics. One is a new low in labor treatment, second is killing online mom and pop shops.

Again, pick some remote place in South Carolina, build a township with own money, create a lifestyle, attract talent.

NOVA is very quiet, Are they really going to benefit with HQ2. The urban sprawl is creating new sub-divisions in remote farming communities. Most of them are priced out but keeping themselves happy by moving out.
 
slider
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:54 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Conservatives want the government involved in their businesses. Subsidies for oil and gas and defense are fine but hell no when it comes to liberal business like solar, wind and tech. Yes this is a generalization but their is truth to it, why does the fossil fuel industry needs any government assistance.


Correction-- Republicans may be fine with selective government interventionism; conservatives are not.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:43 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I'm glad that Texas didn't get the Amazon influx of Libs. We're beto off without them.


Definitely funny, not sure I like. LOL
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
anrec80
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:23 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Your entire writing proves New York liberals are correct. They put their residents' interests above someone else's corporate interest and Amazon doesn't have a corporate responsibility towards the community.


New York City has 8.5 million people living in it. Every single one of them need a lot of municipal services to be paid for. Governor and Mayor did a great work attracting Amazon to begin with, to gain tax base to pay for these services (and now the City has a huge debt, just as most jurisdictions in the USA). And - a small group of one neighborhood’s residents and activists derailed it. This doesn’t help anything, obviously.

I think there are a couple pieces to this puzzle. First, locals wanted to remain in their rent stabilized apartments, paying 1/2, maybe 1/3 of fair market value of their rent. My view of this is negative, obviously. The liberals wanted to “show off” and get some visibility. And all that came at huge financial loss to both City and State. And - opportunity cost to many.

Second - I personally think that Amazon just saw those protests as an excuse to get out of the deal. Once they made their decision and started planning on execution, they probably realized that the decision wasn’t as good as they first thought. And pulled out without losing face.

dtw2hyd wrote:
Read about Amazon's last mile no-benefit workforce and Amazon Basics. One is a new low in labor treatment, second is killing online mom and pop shops.

Well, yes, this is why Amazon is Amazon, that it revolutionized retail, and offers by far more value to the end customer. And - doing it more efficiently. It takes maybe 1/10th of the workforce in online retail to sell the same volume of goods than it would in traditional retail or mom-and-pop shops. This is how it is.

Speaking of “last-mile” workforce - well, these are also local trends. There are more and more people available to do such jobs globally. In Asia alone economic uprising of 90s-2010s brought billions of pairs of working hands for low and medium-skilled jobs. There is nothing a single government can do; if one does not like delivering parcels for Amazon, they should get education to do something better.

And yes - you can force labor unions for “fair distribution of wealth”, but the reality is - the country is getting poorer. There are more and more people who “need help” and less those who have means to help. Yellow Vests in France just show that all you get if you take it too far is fair distribution of poverty. Nothing else.

dtw2hyd wrote:
Again, pick some remote place in South Carolina, build a township with own money, create a lifestyle, attract talent.


I am not a fan of telling someone how to do their business and live their lives. They’ll figure it all out.
 
anrec80
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:27 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Definitely funny, not sure I like. LOL


On the other hand, I have seen liberals who change their views, once no longer asked to pay NYC taxes, which supported their previous viewpoints.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:42 pm

anrec80 wrote:
First, locals wanted to remain in their rent stabilized apartments, paying 1/2, maybe 1/3 of fair market value of their rent. My view of this is negative, obviously. The liberals wanted to “show off” and get some visibility. And all that came at huge financial loss to both City and State. And - opportunity cost to many.

If Amazon pays $120K to a fresh college grad, which is barely enough to rent a loft, eat avocados, drink Starbucks coffee and pay off college debt. What will be they adding to local economy? Do you think they can buy a house and raise a family on $120K.

anrec80 wrote:
Speaking of “last-mile” workforce - well, these are also local trends. There are more and more people available to do such jobs globally.

I am not how global workforce going to deliver packages in the US.
 
anrec80
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Re: Updated: Amazon Cancels New York City HQ2

Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:50 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
If Amazon pays $120K to a fresh college grad, which is barely enough to rent a loft, eat avocados, drink Starbucks coffee and pay off college debt. What will be they adding to local economy? Do you think they can buy a house and raise a family on $120K.

So I don’t get - what do you suggest? To not create any jobs at all? A single one - maybe not, but a family of 2 incomes of 120K each can raise kids. And if there are no jobs - each of them will keep living in parents’ basement.

dtw2hyd wrote:
I am not how global workforce going to deliver packages in the US.


It’s not that complex actually. In 1960s, much of the same workforce that drives taxis and delivers goods today was employed in large and burgeoning industry. Now the industry is shipped to China, and the workforce that were to be employed in it now delivers parcels. That’s about it.
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
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Re: Amazon reconsiders LIC

Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:06 pm

slider wrote:
Correction-- Republicans may be fine with selective government interventionism; conservatives are not.


People are not seeing this for what it is. In any other political climate we wouldn't even be talking about this but since the Democratic party is having an idenity crisis a normal deal in NY went down the crapper and are vilified because they are one of the most successful companies and their boss is one of the richest. I think it's hysterical that Diblasio has lashed out at Amazon and totally gave AOC a pass when in reality if I was Amazon I would of done the same thing. I know he was saving face but all the same he looks really foolish. Whether you like or don't like the tax breaks the jobs are far more worth it in the long run and deals like this are very standard.

Should be fun to see how this plays out.
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