gunnerman
Topic Author
Posts: 872
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:27 am

BA has suspended five pilots including two captains over racist emails sent to another BA captain. One captain use the N-word and another captain who is also a magistrate admitted sending a pornographic image of a man having sex with a chicken to five other union reps.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6686699/British-Airways-suspends-five-pilots-racist-emails.html
 
acjbbj
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:00 am

gunnerman wrote:
sending a pornographic image of a man having sex with a chicken to five other union reps.


Yuck! Absolutely vile!
Douglas Aircraft Company
Born: 22 July 1921 (Santa Monica, CA)
Died: 23 May 2006 (Long Beach, CA), age 84 years 10 months 1 day
You will be missed.
 
User avatar
Pudelhund
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:04 am

The Indian pilot:

“It is understood that he admits sending offensive emails himself, but says he did so only to fit in. Last night Balpa said his claim is ‘strenuously denied and will be robustly defended’. “

I think he is just copping out. This is clearly just locker room talk and suddenly he is playing the race card.
 
speedbird52
Posts: 763
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:42 am

None of this is remotely defensible.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:29 am

Well this does show how low some of BA's altitudes have reached and no wonder why they're in the trash re service standards.

Michael
 
User avatar
SQ789
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:51 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:00 am

Brendan O Neal too?
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 1577
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:14 am

Pudelhund wrote:
The Indian pilot:

“It is understood that he admits sending offensive emails himself, but says he did so only to fit in. Last night Balpa said his claim is ‘strenuously denied and will be robustly defended’. “

I think he is just copping out. This is clearly just locker room talk and suddenly he is playing the race card.

Have you by any chance heard of a tipping point? It's when one tolerates and might even participate in malicious behavior but as it grows realizes enough is enough and pits a stop to it
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Prost
Posts: 2419
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:05 am

In the United States any material on company emails or any information accessed via a company device belongs to the company. Access Facebook on a company device? The company has the legal right to your Facebook PW.

Is the UK similar in their laws?

I don’t understand how people don’t know to behave properly and keep anything in a business account professional? These are well educated people we’re talking about here.
 
An767
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:21 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:09 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Well this does show how low some of BA's altitudes have reached and no wonder why they're in the trash re service standards.

Michael

How does the actions of a group of Pilots acting like childish idiots , reflect on the overall service standards?
Do cabin crew say Beef or the Chicken that got F&^%$#@D ?

AN767
If its got wings put me on it. If it floats on water take it away
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2911
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:09 am

Prost wrote:
In the United States any material on company emails or any information accessed via a company device belongs to the company. Access Facebook on a company device? The company has the legal right to your Facebook PW.

Is the UK similar in their laws?


No. EU law is very strict when it comes to accessing personal stuff, even on company devices and servers. They can't even keep a CV and job application without the written consent of the person who sent it.
 
jomur
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:26 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Well this does show how low some of BA's altitudes have reached and no wonder why they're in the trash re service standards.

Michael


Not condoning the actions but what effect does this have on service? I suspect none, and you can find similar people in any airline/industry and not effect service.
 
Prost
Posts: 2419
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:26 am

Thank you for the information.
 
StudiodeKadent
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:43 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:48 am

This is certainly tasteless, but whether it is illegal or grounds for termination is a different issue entirely.

Personally, I don't think it SHOULD be considered criminal (if the law considers it criminal, the law should be changed, and an unjust law is no law at all). Whether it is grounds for termination depends on the contracts of the individuals in question.

But is it tasteless? Absolutely.

However, I don't think the regulation of taste/morals/decency is something for the state to do, nor do I think its something we here should be overly preoccupied about. Unless its impacting the job performance of BA pilots, I fail to see the big deal.

Not to mention, to put it bluntly I think "I found it totally distressing but I tolerated it to fit in, and now I'm psychologically damaged and want fiscal compensation for my pain" sounds exceptionally suspicious and self-serving. Like "I said yes at the time, but the next morning I felt violated and now I'm pressing charges."
 
WIederling
Posts: 8762
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:10 am

StudiodeKadent wrote:
Not to mention, to put it bluntly I think "I found it totally distressing but I tolerated it to fit in, and now I'm psychologically damaged and want fiscal compensation for my pain" sounds exceptionally suspicious and self-serving. Like "I said yes at the time, but the next morning I felt violated and now I'm pressing charges."


"I've taken some time to find a way to leverage this to my personal advantage."
Murphy is an optimist
 
BlueberryWheats
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:46 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:43 am

jomur wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Well this does show how low some of BA's altitudes have reached and no wonder why they're in the trash re service standards.

Michael


Not condoning the actions but what effect does this have on service? I suspect none, and you can find similar people in any airline/industry and not effect service.


"The meal choices today, sir, are chicken or beef. We've run out of chicken so unfortunately it's beef or go f*ck yourself. Have a nice flight sir."
 
aviatorcraig
Posts: 547
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:51 am

Without condoning in any way what they did, I find it remarkable that they allowed themselves to get caught by this. These are supposed to be smart people. Skygod privilege and perceived immunity?
707 727 Caravelle Comet Concorde Dash-7 DC-9 DC-10 One-Eleven Trident Tristar Tu-134 VC-10 Viscount plus boring stuff!
 
WIederling
Posts: 8762
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:13 am

aviatorcraig wrote:
Without condoning in any way what they did, I find it remarkable that they allowed themselves to get caught by this. These are supposed to be smart people. Skygod privilege and perceived immunity?


The mindsets to "appearing PC" and "safely flying a plane" ( or designing one at that ) are completely
unrelated going into mutually exclusive. you can't lie to a slide rule.
Murphy is an optimist
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14249
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:38 am

I recall when e-mail first came out in the late 90's at my workplace, a law firm in NY City, a guy in our accounting department was circulating including to lawyers on our firm's account e-mails with crude, racist, sexist and otherwise inappropriate content. I told him I didn't want them as were offensive, against firm rules and common sense. When I saw others still getting them, I brought it up with my supervisor to inform them of this. He left the firm in early 2000 when it was winding down to a merger later that year. Many other employers, including I recall the NY Times had to fire staff for similar misuse of e-mails and almost all employers educated users and put in clearly rules that such e-mails were inappropriate. Some put in software to limit such offensive filth.

In my work in the internal law department of a government agency, I see discipline up to firing of employees improperly using e-mails, saying or posting at work such racist, sexist or otherwise offensive garbage or posting at our workplaces. This case doesn't specify if these e-mails were via a BA owned account or one of the pilot's union, but why would anyone circulate such e-mails today, especially with the hypersensitivity of such issues now do it. Firing employees where a major investment in them and difficult to replace is not needed but they all should be suspended without pay for a few weeks, go through disciplinary hearings with the union, lose some seniority so fly some of the worst flights. The union officials involved should be removed from their leadership positions.

All employees from the CEO on down must be required, like at my workplace. to take day long and computer based training on company time as to ethical and respectable workplace behaviors, the proper use of company facilities like e-mails, company and the law on such behaviors, penalties for it and so on.
 
GBNWB
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:02 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I recall when e-mail first came out in the late 90's at my workplace, a law firm in NY City, a guy in our accounting department was circulating including to lawyers on our firm's account e-mails with crude, racist, sexist and otherwise inappropriate content. I told him I didn't want them as were offensive, against firm rules and common sense. When I saw others still getting them, I brought it up with my supervisor to inform them of this. He left the firm in early 2000 when it was winding down to a merger later that year. Many other employers, including I recall the NY Times had to fire staff for similar misuse of e-mails and almost all employers educated users and put in clearly rules that such e-mails were inappropriate. Some put in software to limit such offensive filth.

In my work in the internal law department of a government agency, I see discipline up to firing of employees improperly using e-mails, saying or posting at work such racist, sexist or otherwise offensive garbage or posting at our workplaces. This case doesn't specify if these e-mails were via a BA owned account or one of the pilot's union, but why would anyone circulate such e-mails today, especially with the hypersensitivity of such issues now do it. Firing employees where a major investment in them and difficult to replace is not needed but they all should be suspended without pay for a few weeks, go through disciplinary hearings with the union, lose some seniority so fly some of the worst flights. The union officials involved should be removed from their leadership positions.

All employees from the CEO on down must be required, like at my workplace. to take day long and computer based training on company time as to ethical and respectable workplace behaviors, the proper use of company facilities like e-mails, company and the law on such behaviors, penalties for it and so on.



I bet you are fun to work with!

No doubt the real issue is just a personality clash and he is making it racist as it is the only thing that he thinks will stick. The vast majority of workplaces have a whatsapp group like that. The "Simply Loveleh" messages that are circulated every week in the UK are a good example.
 
ewt340
Posts: 792
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:12 pm

One word: EWWWWWWWWWW!

Really? Hopefully it's not the chicken they served on my previous flight.....
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1491
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:18 pm

If this happened at Air Jamaica I don't think anyone would have been fired. But after seeing that video I don't think I'd choose the Jerk Chicken.
 
KingOrGod
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:20 pm

ltbewr wrote:
hypersensitivity


Bingo. What basically happened: I'm going to go with this because it's great, until it fits my agenda about playing the race card. And poof. Another snowflake born.

FYI, some of the biggest racists I know are not white people either. Some of them others are, but racism isn't only white people y'all know, right?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14249
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:28 pm

GBNWB wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I recall when e-mail first came out in the late 90's at my workplace, a law firm in NY City, a guy in our accounting department was circulating including to lawyers on our firm's account e-mails with crude, racist, sexist and otherwise inappropriate content. I told him I didn't want them as were offensive, against firm rules and common sense. When I saw others still getting them, I brought it up with my supervisor to inform them of this. He left the firm in early 2000 when it was winding down to a merger later that year. Many other employers, including I recall the NY Times had to fire staff for similar misuse of e-mails and almost all employers educated users and put in clearly rules that such e-mails were inappropriate. Some put in software to limit such offensive filth.

In my work in the internal law department of a government agency, I see discipline up to firing of employees improperly using e-mails, saying or posting at work such racist, sexist or otherwise offensive garbage or posting at our workplaces. This case doesn't specify if these e-mails were via a BA owned account or one of the pilot's union, but why would anyone circulate such e-mails today, especially with the hypersensitivity of such issues now do it. Firing employees where a major investment in them and difficult to replace is not needed but they all should be suspended without pay for a few weeks, go through disciplinary hearings with the union, lose some seniority so fly some of the worst flights. The union officials involved should be removed from their leadership positions.

All employees from the CEO on down must be required, like at my workplace. to take day long and computer based training on company time as to ethical and respectable workplace behaviors, the proper use of company facilities like e-mails, company and the law on such behaviors, penalties for it and so on.



I bet you are fun to work with!

No doubt the real issue is just a personality clash and he is making it racist as it is the only thing that he thinks will stick. The vast majority of workplaces have a whatsapp group like that. The "Simply Loveleh" messages that are circulated every week in the UK are a good example.


Such behavior during company time and on company facilities are wrong on several levels, it isn't about PC or making workplaces no fun zones. You don't want employees feeling uncomfortable in their workplaces and with their fellow workers, causing lower productivity, discouraging new employees and recruitment, taking up time by supervisors, causing potentially violent clashes, lawsuits and costly settlements or judgments.
Racism and sexism can affect for example with pilots CRM and you certainty don't want that affected in a critical situation. Do you want a supervisor that is prejudiced ? No. While you have a few who are looking for an excuse to hit a jackpot and retire early by suing for any improper behaviors they perceive, all of us want to do our jobs without feeling we are going to be subject to offensive behaviors by others.
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:29 pm

GBNWB wrote:

No doubt the real issue is just a personality clash and he is making it racist as it is the only thing that he thinks will stick.

I know right! Because using the N word is totally not racist!!
 
User avatar
Lilienthal
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:47 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:56 pm

KingOrGod wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
hypersensitivity


Bingo. What basically happened: I'm going to go with this because it's great, until it fits my agenda about playing the race card. And poof. Another snowflake born.

FYI, some of the biggest racists I know are not white people either. Some of them others are, but racism isn't only white people y'all know, right?



At the end of the day there have to be consequences for these pilots, because BA would indirectly legitimize this behavior if they wouldn't do anything about it.

And honestly it's quite simple... calling a colleague by the N-word and pictures of sexual "intercourse" with animals? Why would anyone even try to defend that with empty buzzwords like "snowflake", "PC" or desperate whataboutism? What motivates people to defend behavior like that?

BA had to act and i don't understand how suspending these pilots is even controversial. Free speech may allow them to say disrespectful, derogatory and vile things, but that doesn't mean that your social circles, your colleagues, you employer and society in general won't have the right to react to that. Actions have consequences.
 
fsnuffer
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:38 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:38 pm

Prost wrote:
In the United States any material on company emails or any information accessed via a company device belongs to the company. Access Facebook on a company device? The company has the legal right to your Facebook PW.


Wrong! They have the right to search their device at anytime without your consent. They do not have a legal right to your password.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6071
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:55 pm

ltbewr wrote:
All employees from the CEO on down must be required, like at my workplace. to take day long and computer based training on company time as to ethical and respectable workplace behaviors, the proper use of company facilities like e-mails, company and the law on such behaviors, penalties for it and so on.

Good heaven, you really are willing soldier of the PC brigade. :roll:

ltbewr wrote:
all of us want to do our jobs without feeling we are going to be subject to offensive behaviors by others.

Many of us adults and want to do our jobs, without enduring all kinds of bs "trainings".
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 17383
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:55 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
All employees from the CEO on down must be required, like at my workplace. to take day long and computer based training on company time as to ethical and respectable workplace behaviors, the proper use of company facilities like e-mails, company and the law on such behaviors, penalties for it and so on.

Good heaven, you really are willing soldier of the PC brigade. :roll:


No, just standard business practice at most large, multinational corporates like the one I worked for.

L410Turbolet wrote:
Many of us adults and want to do our jobs, without enduring all kinds of bs "trainings".


If you want to work for most large, multinational corporates, then you have no choice but to endure compulsory training. Most of us manage to get over it without being mentally scarred and heck, you may even learn a thing or two. :sarcastic:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
jomur
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:03 pm

GBNWB wrote:

No doubt the real issue is just a personality clash and he is making it racist as it is the only thing that he thinks will stick. The vast majority of workplaces have a whatsapp group like that. The "Simply Loveleh" messages that are circulated every week in the UK are a good example.


Probably. We had some who worked with us last year who used the racist card as they didnt get kept on over the winter months. Nobody wanted them back as they were useless at the job but the company has been 'forced' to take them back for this summer and now everyone has to pussy foot around them.
 
gunnerman
Topic Author
Posts: 872
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:07 pm

In case anyone is wondering racist (and religious hate crime) are criminal offences in the UK.

- racially or religiously aggravated offences under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998
- stir up racial hatred under the Public Order Act 1986
 
Jetty
Posts: 948
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:29 pm

ltbewr wrote:
All employees from the CEO on down must be required, like at my workplace. to take day long and computer based training on company time as to ethical and respectable workplace behaviors, the proper use of company facilities like e-mails, company and the law on such behaviors, penalties for it and so on.

Not sure if you’re a troll making fun of snowflakes or serious. In case of the latter:

You are in desperate need of diversity training because you understand nothing about cultural differences if you expect this to fly all over the world. You can have your ethical emails courses in NY, but where I’m from day long training about ethical emails is considered childish, a waste of time and wouldn’t be taken seriously. That of course doesn’t mean you’re not expected to send ethical emails. But not everything that can be expected has to be teached by the employer. Just like your employer doesn’t have to provide diversity training to not be a racist or potty training to use the toilet.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:01 pm

Prost wrote:
In the United States any material on company emails or any information accessed via a company device belongs to the company. Access Facebook on a company device? The company has the legal right to your Facebook PW.

Is the UK similar in their laws?

I don’t understand how people don’t know to behave properly and keep anything in a business account professional? These are well educated people we’re talking about here.


In my teaching career, we have gone from zero electronics usage at or about school to literally everything being done electronically, and rule number one, spelled out for all employees to understand, is that there is absolutely no expectations of privacy whatsoever when using district computers or wifi. This includes district e-mails sent to your personal computers as well. One now-former teacher at my school was convicted of "crimes" partly from evidence collected on his school computer.

We need also remember that one of the theories about the crash of BEA 542 in 1972 starts with a nearly-physical confrontation before the flight and what had to have been perhaps the tensest cockpit in history. And although this situation has not been repeated, many accidents in the 1970's occurred because of mis- or non-communication between the flight crew. Team training has taken care of that, but its number one requirement is that both people flying the plane must have complete trust in the other.

(Rant on) If you're qualified to fly a plane but not smart enough to realize in this day and age that your employer is watching your words and actions on its communications and devices, then frankly, I'd rather take my chances with Karen Black flying a crippled 747 into SLC than I would get on a plane with a racist moron (I know, the same thing) behind the controls. That is a public breach of the public's confidence, and it's a line that can't be uncrossed. (Rant off)
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3079
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:04 pm

Well, if you don't take that day long course in acceptable behavior at work, then you need to spend a couple days, and a month's salary with your attorney on how to avoid getting sued, fired, or jailed.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
BWA900
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 11:20 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:06 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
The Indian pilot:

“It is understood that he admits sending offensive emails himself, but says he did so only to fit in. Last night Balpa said his claim is ‘strenuously denied and will be robustly defended’. “

I think he is just copping out. This is clearly just locker room talk and suddenly he is playing the race card.


And on top of playing the card, its the card of a discriminatory word used to refer to the black demographic. A constant verbal battle being faced daily by many people. That in itself speaks volumes, disgraceful of him to try to sail a boat he's never ridden in.
Flown: A300 A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A359 A388 B712 B735 B737 B738 B739 B38M B744 B752 B753 B763 B772ER B772LR B77W B788 B789 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9 DH8A DH8B DH8D E145 E170 E190
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 21228
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:44 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
All employees from the CEO on down must be required, like at my workplace. to take day long and computer based training on company time as to ethical and respectable workplace behaviors, the proper use of company facilities like e-mails, company and the law on such behaviors, penalties for it and so on.

Good heaven, you really are willing soldier of the PC brigade. :roll:

ltbewr wrote:
all of us want to do our jobs without feeling we are going to be subject to offensive behaviors by others.

Many of us adults and want to do our jobs, without enduring all kinds of bs "trainings".

It's not "your job" unless you own the business. Till you become owner, you work at the pleasure of the actual owner(s) and/or their proxy in the form of management, and you do what you are instructed to do, which includes things such as business conduct training, because the actual owners don't want to get sued because your "non-PC" attitude ends up getting "their" business in trouble.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Jetty
Posts: 948
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:13 pm

Revelation wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
Many of us adults and want to do our jobs, without enduring all kinds of bs "trainings".

It's not "your job" unless you own the business. Till you become owner, you work at the pleasure of the actual owner(s) and/or their proxy in the form of management, and you do what you are instructed to do, which includes things such as business conduct training, because the actual owners don't want to get sued because your "non-PC" attitude ends up getting "their" business in trouble.

You're being to US-centric. Claim culture is irrelevant for the places where most adults do their jobs and non-PC attitude is unlikely to result in lawsuits in the vast majority of the world.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 21228
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:42 pm

Jetty wrote:
Revelation wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
Many of us adults and want to do our jobs, without enduring all kinds of bs "trainings".

It's not "your job" unless you own the business. Till you become owner, you work at the pleasure of the actual owner(s) and/or their proxy in the form of management, and you do what you are instructed to do, which includes things such as business conduct training, because the actual owners don't want to get sued because your "non-PC" attitude ends up getting "their" business in trouble.

You're being to US-centric. Claim culture is irrelevant for the places where most adults do their jobs and non-PC attitude is unlikely to result in lawsuits in the vast majority of the world.

Maybe I am being US-centric when it comes to lawsuits, but there are relevant laws in the UK (they were listed above) and I know business conduct training is far from a US-only thing.

Bottom line is being respectful of the races is just good manners regardless of legal implications, and corporations agree because they include such policies in corporate handbooks and such training in business conduct training.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3194
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:58 pm

Lilienthal wrote:
KingOrGod wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
hypersensitivity


Bingo. What basically happened: I'm going to go with this because it's great, until it fits my agenda about playing the race card. And poof. Another snowflake born.

FYI, some of the biggest racists I know are not white people either. Some of them others are, but racism isn't only white people y'all know, right?



At the end of the day there have to be consequences for these pilots, because BA would indirectly legitimize this behavior if they wouldn't do anything about it.

And honestly it's quite simple... calling a colleague by the N-word and pictures of sexual "intercourse" with animals? Why would anyone even try to defend that with empty buzzwords like "snowflake", "PC" or desperate whataboutism? What motivates people to defend behavior like that?

BA had to act and i don't understand how suspending these pilots is even controversial. Free speech may allow them to say disrespectful, derogatory and vile things, but that doesn't mean that your social circles, your colleagues, you employer and society in general won't have the right to react to that. Actions have consequences.


True it was on a work system. The right to free speech in the US is free speech against the government, not whereever you are. ie: on a plane, restaurants, work.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:26 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
The Indian pilot:

“It is understood that he admits sending offensive emails himself, but says he did so only to fit in. Last night Balpa said his claim is ‘strenuously denied and will be robustly defended’. “

I think he is just copping out. This is clearly just locker room talk and suddenly he is playing the race card.


You think he is playing the race card? There is never a time to use the N word or ever say racist comments to a fellow employee (or anyone). To say the minority pilot laughed back so he liked it or didn’t mind before is blaming the victim. In the end it shows a work culture that is racially charged. I would hope people would just say it is wrong, punish the pilots and let’s move on.
 
User avatar
Pudelhund
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:44 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:
The Indian pilot:

“It is understood that he admits sending offensive emails himself, but says he did so only to fit in. Last night Balpa said his claim is ‘strenuously denied and will be robustly defended’. “

I think he is just copping out. This is clearly just locker room talk and suddenly he is playing the race card.


You think he is playing the race card? There is never a time to use the N word or ever say racist comments to a fellow employee (or anyone). To say the minority pilot laughed back so he liked it or didn’t mind before is blaming the victim. In the end it shows a work culture that is racially charged. I would hope people would just say it is wrong, punish the pilots and let’s move on.


You can play this social justice lip service bit all day, but men everywhere in every workplace talk like this with each other, even more so about women. The only mistake the pilots made was putting it in writing in company emails. I also find it rich that an Indian of all people is now deeply concerned about racism. Indians are far more casual and nonchalant about racial prejudice than English or American workplaces for that matter. He is just playing the cards he will know will get him ahead.
 
User avatar
Moose135
Posts: 3069
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:27 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:52 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
You can play this social justice lip service bit all day, but men everywhere in every workplace talk like this with each other, even more so about women.

I don't know where you work, but I have never spoken like this, and virtually every other man I've worked with doesn't talk like this. You want to work in an atmosphere of disrespect and harassment, be my guest, just don't show up at my workplace, or you will be shown the door. And it isn't about being "politically correct" or "social justice", it is a case of showing normal human dignity to others around you. I wouldn't accept someone talking to me like that, and I certainly wouldn't talk to or about someone else like that either.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1491
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:02 pm

acjbbj wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
sending a pornographic image of a man having sex with a chicken to five other union reps.


Yuck! Absolutely vile!


They worked for BA, not KFC. I don't see what the problem is.
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4668
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:16 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:
The Indian pilot:

“It is understood that he admits sending offensive emails himself, but says he did so only to fit in. Last night Balpa said his claim is ‘strenuously denied and will be robustly defended’. “

I think he is just copping out. This is clearly just locker room talk and suddenly he is playing the race card.


You think he is playing the race card? There is never a time to use the N word or ever say racist comments to a fellow employee (or anyone). To say the minority pilot laughed back so he liked it or didn’t mind before is blaming the victim. In the end it shows a work culture that is racially charged. I would hope people would just say it is wrong, punish the pilots and let’s move on.


You can play this social justice lip service bit all day, but men everywhere in every workplace talk like this with each other, even more so about women. The only mistake the pilots made was putting it in writing in company emails. I also find it rich that an Indian of all people is now deeply concerned about racism. Indians are far more casual and nonchalant about racial prejudice than English or American workplaces for that matter. He is just playing the cards he will know will get him ahead.

Seriously where in the world do you work where using the N word and sending images of beastiality is considered “locker room talk” and what ,en everywhere do everyday? I’ve never worked anywhere where this sort of thing passed as acceptable, nor do I hear men speaking this way at my workplace. As for the N word, there’s no civilized person who doesn’t accept it as racist, so I can’t begn to understand why you think he’s just playing the race card.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:30 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:
The Indian pilot:

“It is understood that he admits sending offensive emails himself, but says he did so only to fit in. Last night Balpa said his claim is ‘strenuously denied and will be robustly defended’. “

I think he is just copping out. This is clearly just locker room talk and suddenly he is playing the race card.


You think he is playing the race card? There is never a time to use the N word or ever say racist comments to a fellow employee (or anyone). To say the minority pilot laughed back so he liked it or didn’t mind before is blaming the victim. In the end it shows a work culture that is racially charged. I would hope people would just say it is wrong, punish the pilots and let’s move on.


You can play this social justice lip service bit all day, but men everywhere in every workplace talk like this with each other, even more so about women. The only mistake the pilots made was putting it in writing in company emails. I also find it rich that an Indian of all people is now deeply concerned about racism. Indians are far more casual and nonchalant about racial prejudice than English or American workplaces for that matter. He is just playing the cards he will know will get him ahead.


What social justice card. This is about corporate culture rules in 2019 from my perspective. Who would ever use work email to say racist comments or send porn? Als you can’t attack people’s race or gender at work. So nothing to do with “men”. No one on this board is saying all British or all white people are racist (and we all know some racist British and/or some racist white peeple but we also know most British people are not racist). This is solely about these pilots. So whatever you might think about some Indians, you cannot apply it to all Indians. And just because you think some Indians are racist, this guy does not need to tolerate being called the N word at work.. Two wrongs never make a right. So crazy. And you are totally blaming the guy who complained. There is no way BA’s employee code would ever tolerate this kind of language. Don’t care if it is legal or not. BA wants its brand to be a global one that respects all cultures. This behavior goes against that goal. I hope they take the appropriate action.
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:24 pm

Lilienthal wrote:
And honestly it's quite simple... calling a colleague by the N-word and pictures of sexual "intercourse" with animals? Why would anyone even try to defend that with empty buzzwords like "snowflake", "PC" or desperate whataboutism? What motivates people to defend behavior like that?

I don’t know, and it baffles me sometimes about what some people will defend. What they did is indefensible in a corporate setting

And for everyone calling lbtewr a troll, it’s pretty standard for most large corporations to have diversity training. Because despite how you grew up, many things you might consider ok are in fact not ok.
 
ubeema
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:48 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:46 am

Pudelhund wrote:
You can play this social justice lip service bit all day, but men everywhere in every workplace talk like this with each other, even more so about women.

takes the cake! Seems like you found the Best place to work in the whole wide world. Why don’t you share your employer’s name so we can all verify your tough attitude. You should go on a hiring spree on this thread, I don’t doubt there will be many who would join you for zero wages.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11738
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:46 am

In the early 2000s I did an internship in a large company in the IT department. One member of the team was sending pornographic images to the rest of us several times a day !

Every week we had at least one laptop repair that involved copying data and seeing tons of porn on these company laptops.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
lebda
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:46 pm

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:00 am

Throwing around the N-word and images of animal abuse are inexcusable. Suspending them isn't "PC culture gone mad", it's the bare minimum of decency.
Denver Tower: Gulfstream 592, you’re cleared to 9,000 feet. For a vector to Hector, contact the sector director.
 
User avatar
kitplane01
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:58 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:07 am

Prost wrote:
In the United States any material on company emails or any information accessed via a company device belongs to the company. Access Facebook on a company device? The company has the legal right to your Facebook PW.

Is the UK similar in their laws?

I don’t understand how people don’t know to behave properly and keep anything in a business account professional? These are well educated people we’re talking about here.


Actually, the statement above is not correct as to American law.

In America, they can monitor your network traffic (and keyboard typing) on company hardware. But they cannot demand you turn over passwords to personal accounts, even if the accounts were accessed via company hardware. And if their monitoring discloses passwords (which it might if they are creepy enough), they cannot use them to access you accounts without your permission. See the Stored Communications Act.
 
speedbird52
Posts: 763
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: British Airways suspends five pilots over racist emails

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:17 am

I feel like we are all glossing over the fact that someone raped a chicken and then sent videos of it over WORK EMAIL, to COWORKERS. Why is this not grounds for firing?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: fr8mech, N14AZ, SQ22 and 15 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos