c933103
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Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:39 pm

A while ago when I started a thread on this board that suggested killing relatives of people who committed felony which I wasn't being very serious with it, that seemed to be a wildly unpopular idea on the forum board. Yet I have just read a report from last year https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ll-targets saying Trump basically asked CIA to do the same thing. Does that mean there are actually more people that support the idea than I thought?
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:53 pm

c933103 wrote:
that seemed to be a wildly unpopular idea on the forum board


I can't imagine why. :crazy:

c933103 wrote:
Does that mean there are actually more people that support the idea than I thought?


You must be so proud that you've had the same "brilliant" idea as Trump.
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Dutchy
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:06 pm

c933103 wrote:
A while ago when I started a thread on this board that suggested killing relatives of people who committed felony which I wasn't being very serious with it, that seemed to be a wildly unpopular idea on the forum board. Yet I have just read a report from last year https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ll-targets saying Trump basically asked CIA to do the same thing. Does that mean there are actually more people that support the idea than I thought?


Trump made a point out of this in his campaign, so again his most ludicrous ideas he was perfectly serious.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:59 pm

Yeah, that's pretty similar to North Korean 3 generations policy...
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:30 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Yeah, that's pretty similar to North Korean 3 generations policy...

Exactly what I thought lol
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c933103
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:50 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Yeah, that's pretty similar to North Korean 3 generations policy...

What North Korea use is a watered down version of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_fami ... rminations
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:53 pm

c933103 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Yeah, that's pretty similar to North Korean 3 generations policy...

What North Korea use is a watered down version of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_fami ... rminations


Huh, I always figured the most warped stuff North Korea does they learned from Imperial Japan.
 
mham001
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:09 am

c933103 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Yeah, that's pretty similar to North Korean 3 generations policy...

What North Korea use is a watered down version of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_fami ... rminations


Something the Russians have successfully used in some of their foreign policy issues and wars.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:49 am

Since you'll never get all the family, you're certain to make more enemies in the long run, not very smart.
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DocLightning
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:23 am

One position on which I agree with Mr. Trump is that the USA has shouldered too much of the military financial burden for NATO. Given that the EU has a GDP on the same order of magnitude as the USA, I would expect the EU to contribute a similar amount of resources. However, threatening to withdraw from NATO is not the solution. Rather, I would prefer to see the EU pool resources to provide a global military presence similar to that of the US. This would be particularly important in counter-ballistic missile defense.
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bennett123
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:45 am

Firstly, the US and EU have different priorities concerning defence and social programs.

Secondly, given the scale of the US arms industry, this idea then translates as ‘increase military expenditure by buying more hardware from the US’.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:14 am

2% of GDP spending has been agreed upon and seems fine. The US spends 3.1% or 35% of all military spendings in the world, NATO spends 50%, how much more would you like to spend? The EU can be much more effective though, work together.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:39 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Firstly, the US and EU have different priorities concerning defence and social programs.



I wonder how quickly those priorities might shift if the US started withdrawing from Europe and reduced its presence
 
A3801000
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:25 pm

c933103 wrote:
A while ago when I started a thread on this board that suggested killing relatives of people who committed felony which I wasn't being very serious with it, that seemed to be a wildly unpopular idea on the forum board. Yet I have just read a report from last year https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ll-targets saying Trump basically asked CIA to do the same thing. Does that mean there are actually more people that support the idea than I thought?


There are 3 problems to your idea:

1.) his parents are dead already
2) Do we shoot all his ex-wifes and/or pornstar lovers too ?
3) is Brandon old enough?
 
drew777
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:27 pm

I occasionally agree with Trump. He's right on China. I hope it leads to real results, not just sound bites for the base.
 
bennett123
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:54 pm

Not sure that a reduced US military presence would be viewed with the degree of horror that some in the US think that it would.
 
anrec80
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:07 am

trpmb6 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Firstly, the US and EU have different priorities concerning defence and social programs.



I wonder how quickly those priorities might shift if the US started withdrawing from Europe and reduced its presence


Europe's priorities won't shift for sure - they took too many migrants and now need to upkeep them. The day after the USA start withdrawal from Europe, we'll be talking about differences in spending priorities between Russia and EU. :D :D :D
 
anrec80
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:13 am

DocLightning wrote:
One position on which I agree with Mr. Trump is that the USA has shouldered too much of the military financial burden for NATO. Given that the EU has a GDP on the same order of magnitude as the USA, I would expect the EU to contribute a similar amount of resources. However, threatening to withdraw from NATO is not the solution. Rather, I would prefer to see the EU pool resources to provide a global military presence similar to that of the US. This would be particularly important in counter-ballistic missile defense.


Yes, but there is one problem. If the EU starts doing that, it will immediately gain more active independent foreign policy, and for sure will not align it with the USA. And if the goal here is to get Europeans to buy American arms, this is the last thing they will do. They will invest in their own military industry.

And I'd pay attention to this recently signed Aachen agreement between France and Germany. I think they did it because in case of EU and/or NATO falling apart Germany and France want to have negotiated, signed and ratified agreement they can work based on.
 
Max Q
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:40 am

DocLightning wrote:
One position on which I agree with Mr. Trump is that the USA has shouldered too much of the military financial burden for NATO. Given that the EU has a GDP on the same order of magnitude as the USA, I would expect the EU to contribute a similar amount of resources. However, threatening to withdraw from NATO is not the solution. Rather, I would prefer to see the EU pool resources to provide a global military presence similar to that of the US. This would be particularly important in counter-ballistic missile defense.



First of all the US doesn’t contribute the ‘required’ 2 % of GDP towards its own European NATO obligation


Furthermore If chump’s real motivation is to force NATO to pay their ‘fair share’ that would be a worthy and defensible position


Unfortunately, what he’s really attempting to do is build an excuse for the US to abandon our treaty partners, fatally weakening NATO and achieving a long held goal of his boss, Vladimir Putin
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seahawk
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:12 am

DocLightning wrote:
One position on which I agree with Mr. Trump is that the USA has shouldered too much of the military financial burden for NATO. Given that the EU has a GDP on the same order of magnitude as the USA, I would expect the EU to contribute a similar amount of resources. However, threatening to withdraw from NATO is not the solution. Rather, I would prefer to see the EU pool resources to provide a global military presence similar to that of the US. This would be particularly important in counter-ballistic missile defense.


Well, the US spends 3,6% of its GDP on the defence, but it also has interests and defence agreements outside of the NATO area. So even if we say that we should just split the US spending into an Atlantic and Pacific side (ignoring the Middle East, South America and the Indian Ocean), the US seems to only spent 1,8% on defence for the NATO area.

And if you wonder if this is fair, well in 1989 (last year of Cold War spending) the USA did spent 6% and NATO Europe did spent 3% on defence.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:25 am

anrec80 wrote:
Yes, but there is one problem. If the EU starts doing that, it will immediately gain more active independent foreign policy, and for sure will not align it with the USA. And if the goal here is to get Europeans to buy American arms, this is the last thing they will do. They will invest in their own military industry.


If you're part of the US Military-Industrial complex, then yes, that's a problem. But on a global scale, I think that having diversity in foreign and international policy would be a good thing.

Max Q wrote:
Unfortunately, what he’s really attempting to do is build an excuse for the US to abandon our treaty partners, fatally weakening NATO and achieving a long held goal of his boss, Vladimir Putin


Well, that's just the trouble, isn't it? I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'm saying that for completely different reasons, Mr. Trump and I align on this one superficial point (even a broken clock is right twice a day). For me, I would approach a rebalancing of US military contribution from the aspect of strengthening NATO by balancing out the contributions and consolidating the various EU member state resources into a combined military force. This article has a figure that shows the current state of affairs: https://www.iiss.org/blogs/military-bal ... -and-value

seahawk wrote:
Well, the US spends 3,6% of its GDP on the defence, but it also has interests and defence agreements outside of the NATO area. So even if we say that we should just split the US spending into an Atlantic and Pacific side (ignoring the Middle East, South America and the Indian Ocean), the US seems to only spent 1,8% on defence for the NATO area.

And if you wonder if this is fair, well in 1989 (last year of Cold War spending) the USA did spent 6% and NATO Europe did spent 3% on defence.


I'm less interested in what is "fair" to the US taxpayer (although that's part of it) and more interested in a world in which the Western Democracies stand united as individual examples of the different models that a democracy can take. In the current state, the USA is this dominant imperial superpower and I don't think that's good for the world at large and I don't think it's good for the USA.
-Doc Lightning-

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Kiwirob
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:49 am

DocLightning wrote:
In the current state, the USA is this dominant imperial superpower and I don't think that's good for the world at large and I don't think it's good for the USA.


By far and away the best comment ever made on a.net about the US!
 
LittleSprocket
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:18 am

bennett123 wrote:
Firstly, the US and EU have different priorities concerning defence and social programs.

Secondly, given the scale of the US arms industry, this idea then translates as ‘increase military expenditure by buying more hardware from the US’.


That's great, now we can just withdraw our troops and let the EU handle their Russian neighbors.
 
LittleSprocket
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:22 am

Max Q wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
One position on which I agree with Mr. Trump is that the USA has shouldered too much of the military financial burden for NATO. Given that the EU has a GDP on the same order of magnitude as the USA, I would expect the EU to contribute a similar amount of resources. However, threatening to withdraw from NATO is not the solution. Rather, I would prefer to see the EU pool resources to provide a global military presence similar to that of the US. This would be particularly important in counter-ballistic missile defense.



First of all the US doesn’t contribute the ‘required’ 2 % of GDP towards its own European NATO obligation


Furthermore If chump’s real motivation is to force NATO to pay their ‘fair share’ that would be a worthy and defensible position


Unfortunately, what he’s really attempting to do is build an excuse for the US to abandon our treaty partners, fatally weakening NATO and achieving a long held goal of his boss, Vladimir Putin


Well...maybe those that have the most at stake should bolster their own defenses instead of relying on an outside force to protect them? Unlike the European countries of NATO, the U.S. chooses to prepare for war to avoid being caught with our pants down like we did in WW2.
 
johns624
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:27 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Firstly, the US and EU have different priorities concerning defence and social programs.

Secondly, given the scale of the US arms industry, this idea then translates as ‘increase military expenditure by buying more hardware from the US’.
Not really. You have the Eurofighter and Rafale for fighters. Spain, France, Italy and the UK all have viable shipbuilders with good designs. The Challenger 2 and Leopard 2 are good tanks. You have a thriving small arms industry. Airbus makes good transports. Eurocopter makes good helicopters.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Unexpectedly share same stance as Donald Trump

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:25 pm

I actually agree with some of his instincts to get out of overseas conflicts, although I disagree with the way he is going about it.
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