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School starting times in the UK

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:51 pm
by bennett123
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47164545

IMO, this raises several points;

1. If they start at 1000, will they still expect to finish at 1500.

2. Will they then expect to start at 1000 when they go out to work.

Either way, they are going to experience a culture shock.

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:20 pm
by Reinhardt
Kids in Germany start school at 8am or earlier.

Most of my work colleagues start work at 7.30 or 8 and are out the door at 4.

Very different ideas.

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:25 pm
by seat64k
I'm aware of claims that teenagers need more sleep (and that doesn't sound far fetched), but I've never seen a discussion about this topic include the time kids go to bed. Maybe that's the problem that needs fixing?

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:55 pm
by BlueberryWheats
Pushing back to 10am will make my morning commute so much easier at 8:30am, the roads will be so quiet!

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:36 pm
by Aesma
If it had been me I would have just been to bed even later and that would have made no difference in the end. I don't have kids but if I had them, there would be a special smartphone drawer in the house where every member of the family would put his/her phone in at 7pm or something, no TV in bedrooms, and laptops/tablets also stored at some point in the evening outside bedrooms.

I didn't need these rules, well maybe, I had a PC in my room at an early age, when most houses didn't have a PC, but there was not that much you could do without the internet, so I rarely spent my nights on it. Reading books, that's another story.

Now making the first half hour of a school day something designed to wake up the brain, that would make sense.

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:46 pm
by c933103
seat64k wrote:
I'm aware of claims that teenagers need more sleep (and that doesn't sound far fetched), but I've never seen a discussion about this topic include the time kids go to bed. Maybe that's the problem that needs fixing?

Kids tend to get up late and sleep late. If that's the natural sleeping schedule for most kids, then shouldn't school schedule match the kids life cycles?

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:41 am
by seat64k
c933103 wrote:
Kids tend to get up late and sleep late. If that's the natural sleeping schedule for most kids, then shouldn't school schedule match the kids life cycles?


Is the late sleeping schedule natural or does it end up being late because kids want to stay up late to engage with technological and other distractions?

I'm from a generation before phones and laptops, but I was not immune to distractions. Staying up late reading a book or listening to a new album on my (knock-off) walkman. But I had no difficulty going to sleep at 10 and being up at 6 in the morning.

Sounds more to me like the adults in kids' lives are forgetting to be the adult.

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:25 pm
by c933103
seat64k wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Kids tend to get up late and sleep late. If that's the natural sleeping schedule for most kids, then shouldn't school schedule match the kids life cycles?


Is the late sleeping schedule natural or does it end up being late because kids want to stay up late to engage with technological and other distractions?

I'm from a generation before phones and laptops, but I was not immune to distractions. Staying up late reading a book or listening to a new album on my (knock-off) walkman. But I had no difficulty going to sleep at 10 and being up at 6 in the morning.

Sounds more to me like the adults in kids' lives are forgetting to be the adult.

When I was in secondary school and that's before the era of smartphone, I recall there were a research saying the average sleeping time of secondary school students back then within my city was already after 12mn. Remember despite every researches say people of group x are doing/feeling y, they are talking about average and individual dispersion do exists.

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:21 am
by seat64k
True, but in this case the bed time is relative to the rise time. It is definitely true that teenagers need *more* sleep than adults. But I have yet to see anything convincing to show that they need to later sleep pattern.

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:19 pm
by PhilBy
Perhaps the solution is to start school at 10 and put the clocks forwards an hour for all teenagers!

That way the kids will go to sleep 1 hour earlier and still have time to wake up before being at school at what is 09:00 for everyone else!

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:44 pm
by trpmb6
I have maintained a 10pm -5:30am sleep schedule since I was a freshman in high school. Sure I occasionally stayed up later during the week to finish a game or because I went to a movie or something. Same is true today. But in general that my schedule. Worked then, works now.

My kids (pre school) go to bed at 7:30pm and wake up at 6am, with a 1 to 2 hour nap while at pre-school. The elder one is at the point where the day time nap usually doesn't happen on the weekends but it's obvious by time bedtime rolls around that he still needs it.

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:09 pm
by kellyon
Remember in high school we I started learning at 9am. I think it's perfect time. At that time I had to combine work and study, it wasn't easy and I often applied to writing service here https://essaypro.com/ to save time and get good grades. But I don't have any regrets, it taught me how to overcome all obstacles.

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:13 pm
by flipdewaf
Aesma wrote:
I don't have kids but if I had them,


Here we go ...lol

Aesma wrote:
there would be a special smartphone drawer in the house where every member of the family would put his/her phone in at 7pm or something, no TV in bedrooms, and laptops/tablets also stored at some point in the evening outside bedrooms.


I'm not picking on you I promise but I thought the same thing before I was a parent.

1."hey it'll be fine, what kids need is clear and consistent boundaries"
2. "We wont have any screen time and our little thing will grow up in a world wooden toys and walks in flowery meadows"
3. "there will be no processed food in my house, we'll only eat freshly prepared healthy and wholesome meals"
4 "We will have a set routine, and make sure that we are all settled in for bed at 19:30"
5. "We wont keep a silent house at night, we want the children to be able to sleep during noise, it will make things so much easier"
6. "We will never say "because I said so" we will be respectful and explain why"

This is basically a transcript of tonight!

Having spent 3 hrs trying to cook something healthy after being tugged on the leg to
LO(Little one):"Daddy, I did a wee in the dishwasher"
Me:"its ok darling, I will throw it all away" AAARRRRRGGGGGGGG

LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"
LO: "Baby Sark a do do do"

Me: *Serves Dinner*
LO: "Can the dog have some"
Me: "no, its for you"
LO: " I don't want it"
Me: "its that or nothing"
LO: "I want nothing"
Me: "Well sit at the table till I have finished"
LO: "Can the dog sit at the Table"
Me: "no"
LO: "can Mum sit at the table"
Me: "no she isnt here, she's back later"
LO: "Can I have Beef"
Me " its beef on the plate"
LO: "no...its not beef on the plate"
Me: "it is I just cooked it"
LO: "no...mummy makes beef"
Me " so did I, just try it"
LO: " I want to watch paw patrol"
LO: " I want chocolate and logurt"
Me: "when you have eaten something we can go and watch paw patrol"
LO: *vomits on the plate*
Me: "oh shit"
*mum gets home*
LO: "SHIT SHIT SHIT"
Mum: "who has she learned that from?"
LO: "Mummy, I not feeling very well"
mum:"awww do you need a cuddle"
LO: "*wimpers* ye, can we cuddle and watch paw patrol"
LO: "I need a logurt for my tummy and a chocolate"

She has only just gone to sleep after putting more water on the bathroom floor than was actually in the bath to begin with and if anyone so much as touches a light switch in this house and wakes her I will personally kill them!

It's all well and good trying to say you'd have these rules but when confronted with a house full of "midget drunks" as my wife calls them 15minutes sanity because they are holding a phone is not so bad.

Aesma wrote:
I didn't need these rules, well maybe, I had a PC in my room at an early age, when most houses didn't have a PC, but there was not that much you could do without the internet, so I rarely spent my nights on it. Reading books, that's another story.

I think often we say we didn't need those rules but how would you have felt if there was a particular book that your father told you that you couldn't read when you were 13 and all your friends were reading it? Adolescent years are a very important part of forming how rules can be negotiated and independence sought and attained. If rules are imposed too much I think a persons ability to construct self discipline is reduced. making a child in to an adult is coaching process much like career development, the exposure to risk has to be appropriate and managed, giving keys, riding the bus, first disco, these are all milestones for a reason, learning bedtimes is a nice easy one.

Aesma wrote:
Now making the first half hour of a school day something designed to wake up the brain, that would make sense.
definitely agree there.

There is data that shows that sleeping patterns change throughout life in a fairly consistent way (there are obviously outliers) but waking times steadily get earlier till around age 10 then they shoot right back to their latest times at about age 14-16 before slowing getting back to the same level as a 10 year old by 55-60.

for some reason this topic is incredibly emotive, peoples own experiences are well ingrained and 'believed' to be correct. My understanding is that later starts do work to get better attainment at school. To say " I got pulled out of bed by my leg at 04:30 by my step dad and put in a cold shower and then ran 6 miles, and look at me, strong as an ox", isn't it better to say "my parents looked at some data and studies and made a balanced decision based on a number of factors and look at me, clever as a human"

Fred

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:22 pm
by casinterest
I think everyone forgets the real reason most teenagers are tired.

Wake up
School
Clubs/Sports
Homework/Real Work/watching siblings
Videogames/TV
Socializing with friends.

It is actually a very busy schedule for a lot, and I am not really convinced that the later start time helps those that have to get real jobs, or participate in after school activities.

I myself had to get up at 6/6:30 , to be at school by 7:25. We got out at 1:55. but I had tones of homework to do, and with after school activities, everything was crazy till 8 or 9 at night except when I had night practices. Bed by 10:30 or 11. And I didn't have to hold down a job.

Then on the weekends we used to party a bit too hard. so the clock got reset a bit, and Monday and Tuesday generally sucked :)

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:43 pm
by FatCat
casinterest wrote:
I think everyone forgets the real reason most teenagers are tired.

Wake up
School
Clubs/Sports
Homework/Real Work/watching siblings
Videogames/TV
Socializing with friends.

It is actually a very busy schedule for a lot, and I am not really convinced that the later start time helps those that have to get real jobs, or participate in after school activities.

I myself had to get up at 6/6:30 , to be at school by 7:25. We got out at 1:55. but I had tones of homework to do, and with after school activities, everything was crazy till 8 or 9 at night except when I had night practices. Bed by 10:30 or 11. And I didn't have to hold down a job.

Then on the weekends we used to party a bit too hard. so the clock got reset a bit, and Monday and Tuesday generally sucked :)


from age 17 to 19 I worked at two local discopubs:

wed (girls drink free day) starting at 19 ending at 2
thu (aperitive buffet day) starting at 19 ending at 2
fri (hell doors open - 70's 80's night) starting at 21 ending at 4
sat (youngsters night - techno, trance) starting at 22 ending at 4
sun at another pub - teen disco starting at 14 ending at 21

but had no problems getting up and going to school...
as I didn't had problems getting up at 5 after 8 / 10 hours march or guard duty during my military service...

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:24 am
by Cadet985
So...I went to a large high school on the outskirts of Philadelphia. We had to scan in each morning and go through metal detectors. Homeroom started at 7:20. If you weren’t in line by 6:45, you were usually late. Now, freshman year I had “zero period,” which was a class before homeroom. I had to be in that class by 6:15 — half the year it was an advanced computer class, half the year it was gym. School got out between 2:15 and 2:30. We were also bogged down with homework. I was in HS from 1999-2003. Goggle was in its infancy, so doing research was actually time consuming. Sometimes I wouldn’t finish homework until 8 or 9 at night, and I remember a couple times, waking up before my alarm to finish it. Oh, and let’s not forget extracurricular activities — debate team, mock trial, academic decathlon...some of those days, I’d be lucky to get home by 6. Friday nights was Civil Air Patrol, and some weekends we had activities.

I wouldn’t wish that schedule on anyone, especially teenagers who we now know biologically need more sleep. I’m not saying to coddle them, but I think globally we need to look at school start times, activities, and what society expects of them.

I can surely say that had Facebook and smartphones been around when I was in HS, I probably would have had a mental breakdown.

One more thing that made high school hell for me...in a school of close to 4,000 students, we had lunch periods going from 9:47 AM until about 1:00. At least 3 of the 4 years, I was eating lunch at 10:30, which meant I was hungry when I got home, not hungry for dinner, then hungry late at night.

I’ll never forget, we had one kid on the football team who lived in South Philadelphia. One of the papers once did a story on him. He had to be on a 4AM bus to get to school, make it through the day, go to practice, go home, eat, and do homework. I don’t recall his name, but he pulled off good grades, somehow.

Marc

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:50 am
by Aesma
Class at 6:15 ! Lunch at 9am ? Maybe the time zone plays a role there ?

Also it seems that school was way too big.

There are probably 4000 high schoolers in my city or 35000, probably more, but there are 3 junior high schools and 2 high schools.

Re: School starting times in the UK

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:33 am
by Cadet985
Aesma wrote:
Class at 6:15 ! Lunch at 9am ? Maybe the time zone plays a role there ?

Also it seems that school was way too big.

There are probably 4000 high schoolers in my city or 35000, probably more, but there are 3 junior high schools and 2 high schools.


When the school was built, the neighborhood was having RAPID growth. At one time, I’m told close to 10,000 students attended. I don’t see this being too far outside the realm of what’s possible; 4 levels in the main building (Basement and floors 1-3), a 2 level annex, and lockers in EVERY hallway. By the time I went there, the lockers on the 2-3 floors were no longer used. At one point in the 60’s, it accommodated grades 7-12.

Marc