zakuivcustom
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Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:56 pm

Well, Trump finally did it...

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/ ... ll-1170988

Of course, this caught my eye more than anything...
"Trump announced the declaration from Rose Garden before. He plans to travel to his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida later on Friday."

Yep, no wonder he doesn't want another shutdown, and just go ahead with declaring national emergency. Ain't nobody can stop him from golfing.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
mham001
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:03 pm

I really like the idea of the Chapos asset forfeiture funds paying for the wall and associated border security. Perfect.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:06 pm

In a long line of dumb ideas, this is at the top. Why Congress gave this power to ANY President is bad enough, actually using is really stupid. The Dems will do all kinds of nefarious things with it,



GF
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:15 pm

I don't think he should leave the White House during a National Emergency.
He should stay in the bunker until we are all safe.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:15 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Well, Trump finally did it...

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/ ... ll-1170988

Of course, this caught my eye more than anything...

Let's see how the courts deal with this, but the precedent has been established. Can't wait for Pelosi to launch to Resolution of Disapproval and see how Republicans are put on the spot. Better yet, can't wait for the next Democrat administration (in the face of a split Congress) to declare a national emergency over items that can actually be backed up by facts: climate change, fracking, gun violence, voter fraud, abortion...the possibilities are endless.

zakuivcustom wrote:
"Trump announced the declaration from Rose Garden before. He plans to travel to his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida later on Friday."

Yep, no wonder he doesn't want another shutdown, and just go ahead with declaring national emergency. Ain't nobody can stop him from golfing.

Aren't we glad we have a president that likes to take weekend trips to his properties, on taxpayer's money, after putting in weeks of 60% Executive Time? It's a good thing he said he wouldn't be able to visit his properties if he won...oh wait.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
2122M
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:23 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Can't wait for Pelosi to launch to Resolution of Disapproval and see how Republicans are put on the spot.


This will be interesting..... There are literally ZERO facts that support the idea that there is a National Emergency at the border, and the money he wants is probably going to have to come from military spending somewhere else. That puts the GOP in an awkward spot. It may be tough to say no the president, but really tough to approve of pulling funds from the troops or from natural disaster recovery efforts in order to deal with a historically low number of illegal immigrants.

What a joke.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:32 pm

mham001 wrote:
I really like the idea of the Chapos asset forfeiture funds paying for the wall and associated border security. Perfect.

Yes this is a great idea!
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:33 pm

The SCOTUS needs to rule the National Emergencies Act unconstitutional under non-delegation principal and make Congress debate bills, pass them on recorded votes and have Presidents sign them into law without signing statements and other nonsense.

GF
 
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OA412
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:36 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Better yet, can't wait for the next Democrat administration (in the face of a split Congress) to declare a national emergency over items that can actually be backed up by facts: climate change, fracking, gun violence, voter fraud, abortion...the possibilities are endless.


Indeed! I was just discussing the same with a friend. If he's allowed to declare a national emergency under the flimsiest of pretexts, the next Dem administration absolutely should declare national emergencies to combat all those and more.
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:44 pm

casinterest wrote:
I don't think he should leave the White House during a National Emergency.
He should stay in the bunker until we are all safe.

Don't worry, he will spending lots of time in various bunkers.
On the third, the eighth, and almost certainly on the 17th. :rotfl:

Image

Just looking at the edge of that bunker reminds me of something I read in the news
Can't quite pin it down to what though. :scratchchin:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
winginit
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:47 pm

When, in your emergency declaration, you say that you "didn't have to do this"... then what you're claiming is an emergency is in fact not an emergency.

Very much looking forward to having the following unfold:

1. The House votes down the national emergency, forcing a Senate vote that McConnell can't stop

2. Republican Senators putting their vote behind Trump's National Emergency

3. Those same Republican Senators losing their minds when future Democratic President Biden/Harris/Ocasio-Cortez/Oprah declares a National Emergency to address Climate Change and the lack of Single-Payer Universal Healthcare in this country
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:54 pm

winginit wrote:
When, in your emergency declaration, you say that you "didn't have to do this"... then what you're claiming is an emergency is in fact not an emergency.

Very much looking forward to having the following unfold:

1. The House votes down the national emergency, forcing a Senate vote that McConnell can't stop

2. Republican Senators putting their vote behind Trump's National Emergency

3. Those same Republican Senators losing their minds when future Democratic President Biden/Harris/Ocasio-Cortez/Oprah declares a National Emergency to address Climate Change and the lack of Single-Payer Universal Healthcare in this country



Lawyers are probably falling over themselves in attempts to rush their lawsuits to court just to have a shot at the "I didn't have to do this" statement.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
winginit
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:58 pm

casinterest wrote:
winginit wrote:
When, in your emergency declaration, you say that you "didn't have to do this"... then what you're claiming is an emergency is in fact not an emergency.

Very much looking forward to having the following unfold:

1. The House votes down the national emergency, forcing a Senate vote that McConnell can't stop

2. Republican Senators putting their vote behind Trump's National Emergency

3. Those same Republican Senators losing their minds when future Democratic President Biden/Harris/Ocasio-Cortez/Oprah declares a National Emergency to address Climate Change and the lack of Single-Payer Universal Healthcare in this country



Lawyers are probably falling over themselves in attempts to rush their lawsuits to court just to have a shot at the "I didn't have to do this" statement.


I was genuinely shocked that even though he had a script in front of him Trump went totally off script for an emergency declaration. The legal challenge is going to shred him.

Additionally, absolutely comical that Trump intends to divert money from drug enforcement to fund his wall.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:14 pm

winginit wrote:
President Biden/Harris/Ocasio-Cortez/Oprah declares a National Emergency to address Climate Change and the lack of Single-Payer Universal Healthcare in this country


AOC? President? LOL no.

Actually Biden is the only one that has any chance to win a presidential election if he isn’t destroyed in the primary like Bernie was. Let him declare an emergency to raise taxes to pay for universal health care and to enact the green deal. They will pay at the next election. Besides they have to become president first.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
winginit
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:26 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
winginit wrote:
President Biden/Harris/Ocasio-Cortez/Oprah declares a National Emergency to address Climate Change and the lack of Single-Payer Universal Healthcare in this country


AOC? President? LOL no.

Actually Biden is the only one that has any chance to win a presidential election if he isn’t destroyed in the primary like Bernie was. Let him declare an emergency to raise taxes to pay for universal health care and to enact the green deal. They will pay at the next election. Besides they have to become president first.


It was clearly a tongue in cheek example given AOC won't even be old enough to run for President in 2020. Calm yourself Nicholas.
 
Pyrex
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:56 pm

I was surprised that over $2 billion of the money is coming from a fund at the DoD (yes, Department of Defense) to combat drug trafficking. Why the hell does the DoD have that kind of money around for that purpose? Isn't that the DOJ's job?

Also, he already has $1.7 billion for a wall - why don't just do like literally every other public infrastructure project and get started on a wall knowing full well the money is not enough to finish it, then a year from now blame "cost overruns" to just pour more money into it? Has he not learned anything from the California high-speed rail project?
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2122M
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:02 pm

Informal poll: Does anyone here approve of this course of action by Trump? So far, everyone that has commented here has called this a bad idea except those that have avoided giving an opinion. Do any Trump supporters or non-Trump supporting conservatives like this move?
 
alfa164
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:14 pm

2122M wrote:
Informal poll: Does anyone here approve of this course of action by Trump? So far, everyone that has commented here has called this a bad idea except those that have avoided giving an opinion. Do any Trump supporters or non-Trump supporting conservatives like this move?


As a non-Trump-supporting actual Conservative, I say "NO!" I do not approve - for the obvious reasons already discussed herein.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
drew777
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:25 pm

What a bad precedent this sets. I'm not sure how anyone could be for this.
 
winginit
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:25 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
I really like the idea of the Chapos asset forfeiture funds paying for the wall and associated border security. Perfect.

Yes this is a great idea!


The Houston Chronicle debunked such a possibility using some pretty sound logic. Any and all of the El Chapo assets seized should first and foremost go to fund his $50M trial.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:27 pm

winginit wrote:
1. The House votes down the national emergency, forcing a Senate vote that McConnell can't stop

2. Republican Senators putting their vote behind Trump's National Emergency

3. Those same Republican Senators losing their minds when future Democratic President Biden/Harris/Ocasio-Cortez/Oprah declares a National Emergency to address Climate Change and the lack of Single-Payer Universal Healthcare in this country

McConnell only has one option, but the optics may be just as bad or even worse: he could vote to change Senate rules so that the resolution can be ignored by the Senate. Of course, this would lead to two things:
1. The Senate, by not taking action, essentially greenlights Trump's emergency without putting any of the Senators directly on the record. Of course, it won't play well in the 2020 elections if Senators can't be on the record for opposing action. Words are one thing; the actual vote is another. We've already seen it with Rubio after he flipflopped and ran for Senate (under the guise of serving as a check on the president...how often has he voted with Trump?).
2. McConnell cements his legacy as the man who destroyed the Senate and abdicates his title of institutionalist. The man who led filibuster after filibuster, refused to take action on confirming a SCOTUS nominee, and along with his party, became deficit hypocrites.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:14 pm

winginit wrote:
casinterest wrote:
winginit wrote:
When, in your emergency declaration, you say that you "didn't have to do this"... then what you're claiming is an emergency is in fact not an emergency.

Very much looking forward to having the following unfold:

1. The House votes down the national emergency, forcing a Senate vote that McConnell can't stop

2. Republican Senators putting their vote behind Trump's National Emergency

3. Those same Republican Senators losing their minds when future Democratic President Biden/Harris/Ocasio-Cortez/Oprah declares a National Emergency to address Climate Change and the lack of Single-Payer Universal Healthcare in this country



Lawyers are probably falling over themselves in attempts to rush their lawsuits to court just to have a shot at the "I didn't have to do this" statement.


I was genuinely shocked that even though he had a script in front of him Trump went totally off script for an emergency declaration. The legal challenge is going to shred him.

Additionally, absolutely comical that Trump intends to divert money from drug enforcement to fund his wall.


Oh please. I thought you liberals were against drug enforcement? And for the record, I am too. Why do you care? You're a bunch of hypocrites. Democrats were in favor of a wall before Trump wanted one. What Trump asked for was peanuts compared to the rest of the budget and you forced a shutdown out of spite.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:36 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
winginit wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Lawyers are probably falling over themselves in attempts to rush their lawsuits to court just to have a shot at the "I didn't have to do this" statement.


I was genuinely shocked that even though he had a script in front of him Trump went totally off script for an emergency declaration. The legal challenge is going to shred him.

Additionally, absolutely comical that Trump intends to divert money from drug enforcement to fund his wall.


Oh please. I thought you liberals were against drug enforcement? And for the record, I am too. Why do you care? You're a bunch of hypocrites. Democrats were in favor of a wall before Trump wanted one. What Trump asked for was peanuts compared to the rest of the budget and you forced a shutdown out of spite.


hypocrites?
Go back to when you snowflakes were griping about overreach of executive power.
It seems funny that you act all offended when covering for a lying racist.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:37 pm

casinterest wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
winginit wrote:

I was genuinely shocked that even though he had a script in front of him Trump went totally off script for an emergency declaration. The legal challenge is going to shred him.

Additionally, absolutely comical that Trump intends to divert money from drug enforcement to fund his wall.


Oh please. I thought you liberals were against drug enforcement? And for the record, I am too. Why do you care? You're a bunch of hypocrites. Democrats were in favor of a wall before Trump wanted one. What Trump asked for was peanuts compared to the rest of the budget and you forced a shutdown out of spite.


hypocrites?
Go back to when you snowflakes were griping about overreach of executive power.
It seems funny that you act all offended when covering for a lying racist.


He's a racist for trying to keep out people who don't belong in the country?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:38 pm

Nice diversion from Trump, look over there: the border, crisis, scary refugees and nothing too see with the FBI investigation.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:40 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
casinterest wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Oh please. I thought you liberals were against drug enforcement? And for the record, I am too. Why do you care? You're a bunch of hypocrites. Democrats were in favor of a wall before Trump wanted one. What Trump asked for was peanuts compared to the rest of the budget and you forced a shutdown out of spite.


hypocrites?
Go back to when you snowflakes were griping about overreach of executive power.
It seems funny that you act all offended when covering for a lying racist.


He's a racist for trying to keep out people who don't belong in the country?


No , for reasons posted many times on this board. But for people that have their head in the sand and can't bother to read, I will just post some links to multiple incidents.

https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/ ... sm-history
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
winginit
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:52 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
winginit wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Lawyers are probably falling over themselves in attempts to rush their lawsuits to court just to have a shot at the "I didn't have to do this" statement.


I was genuinely shocked that even though he had a script in front of him Trump went totally off script for an emergency declaration. The legal challenge is going to shred him.

Additionally, absolutely comical that Trump intends to divert money from drug enforcement to fund his wall.


Oh please. I thought you liberals were against drug enforcement? And for the record, I am too. Why do you care? You're a bunch of hypocrites. Democrats were in favor of a wall before Trump wanted one. What Trump asked for was peanuts compared to the rest of the budget and you forced a shutdown out of spite.


"I don’t think you’re going to see a shutdown. I wouldn’t want to go to it, no. If you did have it, it’s the Democrats’ fault. And I accepted the first one, and I’m proud of what we’ve accomplished because people learned during that shutdown all about the problems coming in from the southern border. I accept — I’ve always accepted it."

- Donald Trump, February 12, 2019: Source

You're not good at this.

TTailedTiger wrote:
He's a racist for trying to keep out people who don't belong in the country?


Oh hardly. He's racist on account of having been sued by the US Department of Justice for being racist. Keep up.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:57 pm

Remember when rule of law was a thing?


Let's hope the next president (democrat) will also declare a national emergency to take aggressive action against climate change.
First to fly the 787-9
 
winginit
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:58 pm

zkojq wrote:
Remember when rule of law was a thing?


Let's hope the next president (democrat) will also declare a national emergency to take aggressive action against climate change.


Looks like there's a mass shooting of some sort taking place (or having recently concluded) outside of Chicago right now. Looking forward to a future Democratic declaration of emergency to force gun control.
 
LittleSprocket
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:21 pm

Completely legal as per federal law. The National Emergencies Act doesn't specify what constitutes a national emergency and as such is up to interpretation by the executive branch. As far as the constitutionality of where he is getting the funding from, congress has already voted to build a wall back in 2006 and has passed a law allowing the president to reallocate funds in the DOD that aren't earmarked for specific projects already.

"10 U.S. Code § 2808 - Construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency
U.S. Code
Notes
Table of Popular Names
prev | next
(a) In the event of a declaration of war or the declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that requires use of the armed forces, the Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize the Secretaries of the military departments to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces. Such projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated.
(b) When a decision is made to undertake military construction projects authorized by this section, the Secretary of Defense shall notify, in an electronic medium pursuant to section 480 of this title, the appropriate committees of Congress of the decision and of the estimated cost of the construction projects, including the cost of any real estate action pertaining to those construction projects.
(c) The authority described in subsection (a) shall terminate with respect to any war or national emergency at the end of the war or national emergency."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808

The irony of this is that he has been telling the Democrats that the wall is going to be built, and as per federal law it is completely legal. Now before folks chime in that that is only for military spending and fortifications, remember we have troops currently on the border assisting CBP and as such the construction is legal.

Of course, the echo chamber in here will cry and moan as usual.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:24 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
Completely legal as per federal law. The National Emergencies Act doesn't specify what constitutes a national emergency and as such is up to interpretation by the executive branch. As far as the constitutionality of where he is getting the funding from, congress has already voted to build a wall back in 2006 and has passed a law allowing the president to reallocate funds in the DOD that aren't earmarked for specific projects already.

"10 U.S. Code § 2808 - Construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency
U.S. Code
Notes
Table of Popular Names
prev | next
(a) In the event of a declaration of war or the declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that requires use of the armed forces, the Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize the Secretaries of the military departments to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces. Such projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated.
(b) When a decision is made to undertake military construction projects authorized by this section, the Secretary of Defense shall notify, in an electronic medium pursuant to section 480 of this title, the appropriate committees of Congress of the decision and of the estimated cost of the construction projects, including the cost of any real estate action pertaining to those construction projects.
(c) The authority described in subsection (a) shall terminate with respect to any war or national emergency at the end of the war or national emergency."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808

The irony of this is that he has been telling the Democrats that the wall is going to be built, and as per federal law it is completely legal. Now before folks chime in that that is only for military spending and fortifications, remember we have troops currently on the border assisting CBP and as such the construction is legal.

Of course, the echo chamber in here will cry and moan as usual.



And the GOP has lost all credibility. "That requires the use of the armed forces? "

Seriously?
Requires?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
2122M
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:28 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
Completely legal as per federal law. The National Emergencies Act doesn't specify what constitutes a national emergency and as such is up to interpretation by the executive branch. As far as the constitutionality of where he is getting the funding from, congress has already voted to build a wall back in 2006 and has passed a law allowing the president to reallocate funds in the DOD that aren't earmarked for specific projects already.

"10 U.S. Code § 2808 - Construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency
U.S. Code
Notes
Table of Popular Names
prev | next
(a) In the event of a declaration of war or the declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that requires use of the armed forces, the Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize the Secretaries of the military departments to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces. Such projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated.
(b) When a decision is made to undertake military construction projects authorized by this section, the Secretary of Defense shall notify, in an electronic medium pursuant to section 480 of this title, the appropriate committees of Congress of the decision and of the estimated cost of the construction projects, including the cost of any real estate action pertaining to those construction projects.
(c) The authority described in subsection (a) shall terminate with respect to any war or national emergency at the end of the war or national emergency."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808

The irony of this is that he has been telling the Democrats that the wall is going to be built, and as per federal law it is completely legal. Now before folks chime in that that is only for military spending and fortifications, remember we have troops currently on the border assisting CBP and as such the construction is legal.

Of course, the echo chamber in here will cry and moan as usual.


So do you support an emergency declaration being used for this purpose?
 
2122M
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:30 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
winginit wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Lawyers are probably falling over themselves in attempts to rush their lawsuits to court just to have a shot at the "I didn't have to do this" statement.


I was genuinely shocked that even though he had a script in front of him Trump went totally off script for an emergency declaration. The legal challenge is going to shred him.

Additionally, absolutely comical that Trump intends to divert money from drug enforcement to fund his wall.


Oh please. I thought you liberals were against drug enforcement? And for the record, I am too. Why do you care? You're a bunch of hypocrites. Democrats were in favor of a wall before Trump wanted one. What Trump asked for was peanuts compared to the rest of the budget and you forced a shutdown out of spite.


Just curious with you too as you are dismissing some of the concern here. Are you in favor of Trump using an emergency declaration for the wall?
 
LittleSprocket
Posts: 223
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:32 pm

2122M wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
Completely legal as per federal law. The National Emergencies Act doesn't specify what constitutes a national emergency and as such is up to interpretation by the executive branch. As far as the constitutionality of where he is getting the funding from, congress has already voted to build a wall back in 2006 and has passed a law allowing the president to reallocate funds in the DOD that aren't earmarked for specific projects already.

"10 U.S. Code § 2808 - Construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency
U.S. Code
Notes
Table of Popular Names
prev | next
(a) In the event of a declaration of war or the declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that requires use of the armed forces, the Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize the Secretaries of the military departments to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces. Such projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated.
(b) When a decision is made to undertake military construction projects authorized by this section, the Secretary of Defense shall notify, in an electronic medium pursuant to section 480 of this title, the appropriate committees of Congress of the decision and of the estimated cost of the construction projects, including the cost of any real estate action pertaining to those construction projects.
(c) The authority described in subsection (a) shall terminate with respect to any war or national emergency at the end of the war or national emergency."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808

The irony of this is that he has been telling the Democrats that the wall is going to be built, and as per federal law it is completely legal. Now before folks chime in that that is only for military spending and fortifications, remember we have troops currently on the border assisting CBP and as such the construction is legal.

Of course, the echo chamber in here will cry and moan as usual.


So do you support an emergency declaration being used for this purpose?


Whether or not I support it has no bearing on whether or not it is legal. Personally I'd rather see Congress get off their asses and actually work towards an effective immigration and border security plan...something that they have been discussing for longer than I have been alive.

Do I support the action though in the absence of action by Congress? Your damn straight I do. Build the wall where a wall works and use other means where it isn't as feasible.
 
LittleSprocket
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:56 am

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:34 pm

casinterest wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
Completely legal as per federal law. The National Emergencies Act doesn't specify what constitutes a national emergency and as such is up to interpretation by the executive branch. As far as the constitutionality of where he is getting the funding from, congress has already voted to build a wall back in 2006 and has passed a law allowing the president to reallocate funds in the DOD that aren't earmarked for specific projects already.

"10 U.S. Code § 2808 - Construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency
U.S. Code
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(a) In the event of a declaration of war or the declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that requires use of the armed forces, the Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize the Secretaries of the military departments to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces. Such projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated.
(b) When a decision is made to undertake military construction projects authorized by this section, the Secretary of Defense shall notify, in an electronic medium pursuant to section 480 of this title, the appropriate committees of Congress of the decision and of the estimated cost of the construction projects, including the cost of any real estate action pertaining to those construction projects.
(c) The authority described in subsection (a) shall terminate with respect to any war or national emergency at the end of the war or national emergency."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808

The irony of this is that he has been telling the Democrats that the wall is going to be built, and as per federal law it is completely legal. Now before folks chime in that that is only for military spending and fortifications, remember we have troops currently on the border assisting CBP and as such the construction is legal.

Of course, the echo chamber in here will cry and moan as usual.



And the GOP has lost all credibility. "That requires the use of the armed forces? "

Seriously?
Requires?


What do you call hundreds of thousands of people storming your border each year? By the very definition that is an invasion and having the military there to backup our civil law enforcement should be a non-issue...seeing as we protect the borders of many nations overseas.
 
LittleSprocket
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:56 am

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:35 pm

winginit wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Remember when rule of law was a thing?


Let's hope the next president (democrat) will also declare a national emergency to take aggressive action against climate change.


Looks like there's a mass shooting of some sort taking place (or having recently concluded) outside of Chicago right now. Looking forward to a future Democratic declaration of emergency to force gun control.


They can try except that firearms are a constitutionally protected right...unless of course you are saying that Democrats don't care about the Constitution?
 
2122M
Posts: 1201
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:35 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
2122M wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
Completely legal as per federal law. The National Emergencies Act doesn't specify what constitutes a national emergency and as such is up to interpretation by the executive branch. As far as the constitutionality of where he is getting the funding from, congress has already voted to build a wall back in 2006 and has passed a law allowing the president to reallocate funds in the DOD that aren't earmarked for specific projects already.

"10 U.S. Code § 2808 - Construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency
U.S. Code
Notes
Table of Popular Names
prev | next
(a) In the event of a declaration of war or the declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that requires use of the armed forces, the Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize the Secretaries of the military departments to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces. Such projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated.
(b) When a decision is made to undertake military construction projects authorized by this section, the Secretary of Defense shall notify, in an electronic medium pursuant to section 480 of this title, the appropriate committees of Congress of the decision and of the estimated cost of the construction projects, including the cost of any real estate action pertaining to those construction projects.
(c) The authority described in subsection (a) shall terminate with respect to any war or national emergency at the end of the war or national emergency."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808

The irony of this is that he has been telling the Democrats that the wall is going to be built, and as per federal law it is completely legal. Now before folks chime in that that is only for military spending and fortifications, remember we have troops currently on the border assisting CBP and as such the construction is legal.

Of course, the echo chamber in here will cry and moan as usual.


So do you support an emergency declaration being used for this purpose?


Whether or not I support it has no bearing on whether or not it is legal. Personally I'd rather see Congress get off their asses and actually work towards an effective immigration and border security plan...something that they have been discussing for longer than I have been alive.

Do I support the action though in the absence of action by Congress? Your damn straight I do. Build the wall where a wall works and use other means where it isn't as feasible.


So you either believe that A) There is a national emergency at the border or B) It is appropriate for a president to bypass congress's constitutionally granted appropriations power in enact policy.

Which is it?
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 9016
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:39 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
casinterest wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
Completely legal as per federal law. The National Emergencies Act doesn't specify what constitutes a national emergency and as such is up to interpretation by the executive branch. As far as the constitutionality of where he is getting the funding from, congress has already voted to build a wall back in 2006 and has passed a law allowing the president to reallocate funds in the DOD that aren't earmarked for specific projects already.

"10 U.S. Code § 2808 - Construction authority in the event of a declaration of war or national emergency
U.S. Code
Notes
Table of Popular Names
prev | next
(a) In the event of a declaration of war or the declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that requires use of the armed forces, the Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize the Secretaries of the military departments to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces. Such projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated.
(b) When a decision is made to undertake military construction projects authorized by this section, the Secretary of Defense shall notify, in an electronic medium pursuant to section 480 of this title, the appropriate committees of Congress of the decision and of the estimated cost of the construction projects, including the cost of any real estate action pertaining to those construction projects.
(c) The authority described in subsection (a) shall terminate with respect to any war or national emergency at the end of the war or national emergency."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808

The irony of this is that he has been telling the Democrats that the wall is going to be built, and as per federal law it is completely legal. Now before folks chime in that that is only for military spending and fortifications, remember we have troops currently on the border assisting CBP and as such the construction is legal.

Of course, the echo chamber in here will cry and moan as usual.



And the GOP has lost all credibility. "That requires the use of the armed forces? "

Seriously?
Requires?


What do you call hundreds of thousands of people storming your border each year? By the very definition that is an invasion and having the military there to backup our civil law enforcement should be a non-issue...seeing as we protect the borders of many nations overseas.


Storming our border?
Really?
I have seen some lies ,but that about tops it all.

Next thing you are going to tell me is that tourists going to Cancun are freedom fighters right?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
2122M
Posts: 1201
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:39 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
What do you call hundreds of thousands of people storming your border each year? By the very definition that is an invasion and having the military there to backup our civil law enforcement should be a non-issue...seeing as we protect the borders of many nations overseas.


The illegal immigration population of the US has increased by about 70,000 people per year since 2010. And more than half of those were visa overstays. So your assertion that hundreds of thousands of people are storming our border each year is simply untrue.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illeg ... tatistics/
 
LittleSprocket
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:56 am

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:44 pm

2122M wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
What do you call hundreds of thousands of people storming your border each year? By the very definition that is an invasion and having the military there to backup our civil law enforcement should be a non-issue...seeing as we protect the borders of many nations overseas.


The illegal immigration population of the US has increased by about 70,000 people per year since 2010. And more than half of those were visa overstays. So your assertion that hundreds of thousands of people are storming our border each year is simply untrue.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illeg ... tatistics/


Yep, I think I'll take the word of ICE over some random page on Google.
https://www.ice.gov/features/ERO-2018

Or how about the following release where in one month alone they captured close to 60,000 people crossing the border illegally.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
 
LittleSprocket
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:56 am

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:45 pm

casinterest wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
casinterest wrote:


And the GOP has lost all credibility. "That requires the use of the armed forces? "

Seriously?
Requires?


What do you call hundreds of thousands of people storming your border each year? By the very definition that is an invasion and having the military there to backup our civil law enforcement should be a non-issue...seeing as we protect the borders of many nations overseas.


Storming our border?
Really?
I have seen some lies ,but that about tops it all.

Next thing you are going to tell me is that tourists going to Cancun are freedom fighters right?


What would you call capturing 50-60,000 people a month on the southern border exactly?

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
 
2122M
Posts: 1201
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:00 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
2122M wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
What do you call hundreds of thousands of people storming your border each year? By the very definition that is an invasion and having the military there to backup our civil law enforcement should be a non-issue...seeing as we protect the borders of many nations overseas.


The illegal immigration population of the US has increased by about 70,000 people per year since 2010. And more than half of those were visa overstays. So your assertion that hundreds of thousands of people are storming our border each year is simply untrue.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illeg ... tatistics/


Yep, I think I'll take the word of ICE over some random page on Google.
https://www.ice.gov/features/ERO-2018

Or how about the following release where in one month alone they captured close to 60,000 people crossing the border illegally.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration



The ICE stat from the link of 158,581 arrests in 2018 is arrests of illegal immigrants in the country, not number of border crossing. For reference, there are 10-12 million illegal immigrants already in the country, and of that number, 158K were arrested. So that stats has nothing at all to do with number of border crossings.

Your second stat (60,000 in one month) includes apprehensions and inadmissible. Inadmissible come to legal ports of entry and request entry, but are denied. From your link:

"OFO inadmissibility metrics include: individuals encountered at ports of entry who are seeking lawful admission into the United States but are determined to be inadmissible, individuals presenting themselves to seek humanitarian protection under our laws; and individuals who withdraw an application for admission and return to their countries of origin within a short timeframe."

So basically, no. Of the hundreds of thousands of people that would like to come to the US, less than 70,000 per year are getting here and less than half of those are border crossings. The Apprehensions and Inadmissibles you mention are the number of people that didn't get in, for the most part because they came to seek asylum and were denied either at a point of entry or at apprehension between entry points.

And even then, those numbers are WAAAAYYY down from their high's around 2000.

Also, the stats you so easily dismissed from the factcheck link were stats from the Pew Research Center. A very highly respected and non-partisan organization. But I understand if you want to call them "some random page on google".
 
bagoldex
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:11 pm

I wouldn't put it past CBP/ICE to fudge the numbers to justify higher funding levels from a nativist and authoritarian president who shares very much the same ideology as those who gravitate toward work in that field.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14238
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:14 pm

With today's declaration by Pres. Trump of 'a national emergency' and likely court fights, there should be serious revision of the Presidential emergency powers acts to give specifics with some part of the current law. There are intermediate levels of declarations that can allow for reallocation of monies for regional disasters.

The bigger issue as to immigration has been the lack of sound law and policy due to corruption and special interests wanting cheap and exploitable workers and that people leaving their countries in part from our decades of awful policies.

For sure this 'Declaration' should be negated by Congress ASAP as usurps the 'power of the purse' in the House. It should also be another charge to the many others that can be brought against Trump in an Impeachment.
 
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stl07
Posts: 1564
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:26 pm

This is the GOP's worst move to date and every supporter of this declaration needs to be voted out. They just blatantly broke the constitution
Also, now that this is precedent, what's going to stop the dems from say, I don't know, passing a green deal or banning guns with zero congressional support like this wall. HA
Can't wait for a Democrat to win
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6151
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:38 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The SCOTUS needs to rule the National Emergencies Act unconstitutional under non-delegation principal and make Congress debate bills, pass them on recorded votes and have Presidents sign them into law without signing statements and other nonsense.

GF

It's going to be fun watching the 5 conservative justices do backflips to try and explain away Trump outright saying: "I didn't need to do this."

They got away with it in Hawaii v. Trump (the Muslim Ban case), by reasoning that Trump's promise to block all Muslims from entering the US, was made while he was a candidate and thus shouldn't really count.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9016
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:44 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
casinterest wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:

What do you call hundreds of thousands of people storming your border each year? By the very definition that is an invasion and having the military there to backup our civil law enforcement should be a non-issue...seeing as we protect the borders of many nations overseas.


Storming our border?
Really?
I have seen some lies ,but that about tops it all.

Next thing you are going to tell me is that tourists going to Cancun are freedom fighters right?


What would you call capturing 50-60,000 people a month on the southern border exactly?

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


ICE Doing their JOB without the need of a lying racist coward like Trump declaring a national emergency
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:50 pm

A month too late. The ninth circuit will of course stop it immediately. Thank god the SCOTUS is not such a band of losers. This has been long overdue. There is a real emergency and zero likelihood of the Dems giving in to demands for wall funding, so there was never an alternative. Using the asset forfeiture fund for this is the ideal measure.

casinterest wrote:

ICE Doing their JOB without the need of a lying racist coward like Trump declaring a national emergency


The ICE agents know that a wall works and have actually asked for it to be built. They are on the front lines and not just all talk no action nutjobs in corrupt congress seats like Pelosi.

If Democrats were in charge, there would be no ICE. Now THAT would be an uber-emergency.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9016
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:56 pm

aviationaware wrote:
A month too late. The ninth circuit will of course stop it immediately. Thank god the SCOTUS is not such a band of losers. This has been long overdue. There is a real emergency and zero likelihood of the Dems giving in to demands for wall funding, so there was never an alternative. Using the asset forfeiture fund for this is the ideal measure.

casinterest wrote:

ICE Doing their JOB without the need of a lying racist coward like Trump declaring a national emergency


The ICE agents know that a wall works and have actually asked for it to be built. They are on the front lines and not just all talk no action nutjobs in corrupt congress seats like Pelosi.

If Democrats were in charge, there would be no ICE. Now THAT would be an uber-emergency.


And yet more lies.
Taking American's land to build a wall built on Racist lies.
If the GOP was serious about people coming into the US and getting jobs, they would be throwing farmers and CEO's that hire them into jail or fining them .
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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TWA772LR
Posts: 6801
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for the wall

Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:01 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, since Trump declared a national emergency, doesn't that mean the decision for a wall falls on the Department of Defense?
When wasn't America great?


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