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Scipio
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:00 pm

Dogman wrote:
Ukraine is getting less corrupted, may be not as fast as I would like to, but the progress is noticeable. The most important thing is that the people are not afraid of their government, and the government knows that they do not have a stranglehold on power, like Putin does. So, they cannot abuse the system as freely as before, and the fact that we hear about more incidents of corruption is just a result of more openness.


Absolutely.

The second round of Ukraine's Presidential elections is due this coming Sunday, and it looks like President Poroshenko will be ousted by his challenger Volodymyr Zelenskyi.
Mind you, Zelenskyi seems to be backed by oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi, so his election would open another can of worms.

But, at least, Ukrainians have the freedom to replace their President. It is a freedom Russians do not have.
 
olle
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:00 pm

I read one article that Russian people follows the Ukraine election close. If there is a functional election in Ukraine will this have effect on the future Russian political climate?
 
tu204
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:15 pm

Scipio wrote:
Dogman wrote:
Ukraine is getting less corrupted, may be not as fast as I would like to, but the progress is noticeable. The most important thing is that the people are not afraid of their government, and the government knows that they do not have a stranglehold on power, like Putin does. So, they cannot abuse the system as freely as before, and the fact that we hear about more incidents of corruption is just a result of more openness.


Absolutely.

The second round of Ukraine's Presidential elections is due this coming Sunday, and it looks like President Poroshenko will be ousted by his challenger Volodymyr Zelenskyi.
Mind you, Zelenskyi seems to be backed by oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi, so his election would open another can of worms.

But, at least, Ukrainians have the freedom to replace their President. It is a freedom Russians do not have.


To my friends in Ukraine: You guys are electing you President, it is pretty pathetic to mix this in with Russia.

It is not Russia's fault you guys managed to flunk your economy, you guys did this by yourselves.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tu204
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:17 pm

olle wrote:
I read one article that Russian people follows the Ukraine election close. If there is a functional election in Ukraine will this have effect on the future Russian political climate?



Not much.

In Ruissia people are viewing this whole mess like looking at a circus. Kinda fun to watch. Thats it.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:16 pm

tu204 wrote:
To my friends in Ukraine: You guys are electing you President, it is pretty pathetic to mix this in with Russia.

It is not Russia's fault you guys managed to flunk your economy, you guys did this by yourselves.


Except that Russia has seized part of Ukraine and is mangling in eastern Ukraine.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A3801000
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:47 pm

democratic election = 'whole mess', welcome to Russia 2019
 
tu204
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:45 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
To my friends in Ukraine: You guys are electing you President, it is pretty pathetic to mix this in with Russia.

It is not Russia's fault you guys managed to flunk your economy, you guys did this by yourselves.


Except that Russia has seized part of Ukraine and is mangling in eastern Ukraine.


Well Crimea didn't want to be in that mess, so sure. Eastern Ukraine? Maybe. Should have thought of that before they had a coup.

Regardless, it is the problem of these clowns and thrir tanking economy and living standards. Live up to it and stop blaming Russia.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:02 pm

tu204 wrote:
Well Crimea didn't want to be in that mess, so sure. Eastern Ukraine? Maybe. Should have thought of that before they had a coup.


:checkmark: in other words, listen to mother Russia or face the consequences. Thanks for agreeing with the rest of the word in seeing that your Putin's Russia is the aggressor.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:36 pm

The comedian, political newbie has apparently defeated the incumbent tycoon president.

Let's see how this newcomer handles the country. Nothing good has ever come out of people giving the finger to the current officials unless they're being oppressed by some reason (it's one thing to give the finger to a tyrant; it's another to give it to the current establishment).

Will this newcomer be swayed by Putin? Sweet-talked by Trump? We'll see.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
A3801000
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:40 pm

anrec80 wrote:
... But that won't happen with this pro-nazi regime in Kiev.


Interesting how this 'pro-Nazi regime in Kiev' has no problem to lose a election and making space for a democratic elected new president, hu? Did Soros/Rothschild/pro-west/Nazi/lizard people, etc. forget to fix the elections? ;)

Wouldn't happen in the good 'ole motherland Russia, that's for sure.

The president and the PM of Ukraine are now both Jewish.
 
Scipio
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:30 pm

The Ukrainian people have voted, in a relatively clean process without violence or major incidents. Poroshenko has conceded defeat, and has said that he will help Zelenskyi during the transition period.
This is democracy at work in an orderly manner. This in itself is a major victory for Ukraine.

It has nothing to do with "a whole mess".

There are many questions about the new President. It is now up to him to prove himself and take the country forward.

Ukraine's voters will have another chance to express their opinions during the Parliamentary elections that are due in October.
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:13 am

A3801000 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
... But that won't happen with this pro-nazi regime in Kiev.


Interesting how this 'pro-Nazi regime in Kiev' has no problem to lose a election and making space for a democratic elected new president, hu? Did Soros/Rothschild/pro-west/Nazi/lizard people, etc. forget to fix the elections? ;)

Wouldn't happen in the good 'ole motherland Russia, that's for sure.

The president and the PM of Ukraine are now both Jewish.


Do we know that "pro-Nazi regime in Kiev" has lost? Nothing is yet known about Zelensky as a politician. Nothing is known about him except "we favor everything that's good and are against everything that's bad". First he needs to get into the office, then establish control over the country, and make his first decisions as a President. And yes, show his independence from that dreaded oligarchy. Keep in mind - Poroshenko also was running as "peace president", "someone new", "an experienced businessman", and this is how he got elected. He did not deliver on any of his promises, and such dismal results clearly indicate that.

It's too early to say anything. I personally wish him luck, and not follow the suit of other Ukrainian political leaders, who within months of getting into the office lose all their trust credit, support and nation's approval, gaining ratings of about 10%. It was the case with Yushchenko, Poroshenko.

What was defeated though - exactly this aggressive anti-Russian political line, with the still-President. Just staggering defeat. People overwhelmingly voted and indicated that they want something more moderate and less aggressive, they want peace. And there is simply no-one else they can trust other than this new young guy. And that's given that there is no more Crimea (2.5 million) and Eastern regions (about 5 million) that obviously would have voted against Poroshenko by a huge margin.
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:13 am

Dutchy wrote:
:checkmark: in other words, listen to mother Russia or face the consequences. Thanks for agreeing with the rest of the word in seeing that your Putin's Russia is the aggressor.


What does “mother Russia” have to do here? Is it really new that armed coups are never a good thing, and almost always have dire consequences? It has always been the case throughout the whole humanity’s history, even before “mother Russia” notion.
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:52 am

Dutchy wrote:
Except that Russia has seized part of Ukraine and is mangling in eastern Ukraine.


And that makes the defeat of aggressive anti-Russian stance in Ukraine even more staggering - since Ukrainian authorities purposefully kept those people (in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine) outside of election process. Zelensky never during his campaign mentioned these words - "Russian aggression", not even once. What he said however was "this is an absolutely criminal situation and it will take us a long time to get out of it". Do you see the difference?
 
A3801000
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:06 am

It’s the second free and fair undisputed election in a row in Ukraine and it’s beginning to look like a democratic tradition in a region filled with despots and dictators. The message the Ukrainian people are sending to Russia is if we can do it, you can do it. Putin and his paid trolls don't like this, because reasons.
Ukraine, despite still having big problems seems to be on the right track.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:51 am

A3801000 wrote:
It’s the second free and fair undisputed election in a row in Ukraine and it’s beginning to look like a democratic tradition in a region filled with despots and dictators. The message the Ukrainian people are sending to Russia is if we can do it, you can do it. Putin and his paid trolls don't like this, because reasons.
Ukraine, despite still having big problems seems to be on the right track.


:checkmark: yes, it is a slow process, but they indeed seem to be on the right track and they still have a long way to go.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:52 am

A3801000 wrote:
The message the Ukrainian people are sending to Russia is if we can do it, you can do it.


Ukrainian people sent many messages to the nations around. Same was said about Maidan in 2014. Russians (and everyone else around) said "no thank you, we rather stick with our long time strongmen". What Ukrainians "could do" here - we are yet to see. The most important - if the winner of this election will become an independent politician, and is not just a protege of one of competing oligarchic clans (as many believe - Kolomoisky's one).

And one more detail. Centerpiece of Poroshenko's campaign before this second round of election was "It's either me or Putin". Well - according to him, 73% of Ukrainians preferred Putin.
 
A3801000
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:59 am

anrec80 wrote:
Well - according to him, 73% of Ukrainians preferred Putin.


Not 146% again? Putin on his way down?

Image

https://gawker.com/5864945/putin-clings ... xceeds-146
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:07 am

A3801000 wrote:
Not 146% again? Putin on his way down?


Well we are discussing Ukrainian elections here - right? 73% is Zelensky's result. Those 146% was a known one-time glitch in Russian election IT system - what does that have to do with Ukraine?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:09 am

anrec80 wrote:
Russians (and everyone else around) said "no thank you, we rather stick with our long time strongmen".


Yes, Putin can say an autocrat for now. He has a very good propaganda machine. You should know :lol: BTW, what do you do? How does it work? Monitor this forum and at the moment there is something about Russia you swoop in?

anrec80 wrote:
What Ukrainians "could do" here - we are yet to see. The most important - if the winner of this election will become an independent politician, and is not just a protege of one of competing oligarchic clans (as many believe - Kolomoisky's one).

And one more detail. Centerpiece of Poroshenko's campaign before this second round of election was "It's either me or Putin". Well - according to him, 73% of Ukrainians preferred Putin.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Let's give Volodymyr Zelensky the benefit of the doubt. If he ends up a billionaire then we'll know that he is corrupt, if he continues the necessary reforms, he will be a force of good. The proof is in the pudding, at least he hasn't a 3.000dollar tracksuit of a government salary.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:13 am

A3801000 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Well - according to him, 73% of Ukrainians preferred Putin.


Not 146% again? Putin on his way down?

Image

https://gawker.com/5864945/putin-clings ... xceeds-146


That is classic :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A3801000
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:17 am

anrec80 wrote:
Those 146% was a known one-time glitch in Russian election IT system - what does that have to do with Ukraine?


'one-time glitch' :rotfl:

Well, at least voting in the russian parliament is better organised: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzGt_E5SIoA

But yeah, tell us more about democracy not working in other countries ;)
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:18 am

anrec80 wrote:
A3801000 wrote:
Not 146% again? Putin on his way down?


Well we are discussing Ukrainian elections here - right? 73% is Zelensky's result. Those 146% was a known one-time glitch in Russian election IT system - what does that have to do with Ukraine?


Yes, a glitch in the Russian election IT system, not programmed the right way?

A YouTube user in east Moscow illustrated how the pens at booths in school #1114 were filled with invisible ink. In the Siberian city of Novokuznetsk, a user showed how ballot boxes had arrived at a polling site one-third filled with votes.


A well known glitch in misplacing votes. The boxes filled with misprinted votes with the X for Putin. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

A Moscow user filmed an election official at polling station #2501 filling out ballots as he sat at his desk. Several users filmed buses, nicknamed "carousels", which appeared to be carrying the same people to various stations so they could vote over and over again.


A well known glitch in the Russian bussystem, those poor people were in a Ground Hawk-day type voting glitch. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

At least you are entertaining, just like Russian elections, always wondering how Putin is going to rig the elections ones again.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:35 am

Dutchy wrote:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Let's give Volodymyr Zelensky the benefit of the doubt. If he ends up a billionaire then we'll know that he is corrupt, if he continues the necessary reforms, he will be a force of good. The proof is in the pudding, at least he hasn't a 3.000dollar tracksuit of a government salary.


Well, this is the only thing that's left - let him get into the office and begin his work.

In today's Ukrainian situation to not become corrupt is not enough. He really now has to walk on the edge of a knife. Yushchenko did not become corrupt, but within a year ended up having a "doormat" reputation, was removed from any real power and ended his term with record low 5% votes in re-election. Poroshenko - you know, immediately started getting richer, ignited the war and is now called a "bloody confectioner". Less than 25% for an acting President in full control of the country - is rather pathetic as well.

Zelensky - his tasks now are to not become corrupt, actually give a fight to corruption and take oligarchy under control on one side, and actually stop the war on the other. If he fails to get the country under his control - oligarchic clans will continue looting the remainders of the economy, and he will be left at fault for it all, including the war. The nickname to be gained is "bloody clown" I suppose. So his immediate tasks are "mission impossible", and the reward is the place in history, but failure's price tag is steep.
 
tu204
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:31 pm

A3801000 wrote:
It’s the second free and fair undisputed election in a row in Ukraine and it’s beginning to look like a democratic tradition in a region filled with despots and dictators. The message the Ukrainian people are sending to Russia is if we can do it, you can do it. Putin and his paid trolls don't like this, because reasons.
Ukraine, despite still having big problems seems to be on the right track.


What.message are thr Ukrainians sending to Russia again?
How to destroy your economy and country in a few years?
Its amazing that anyone actually thinks thay the disaster of a country that Urkraine became can actually be viewed as something positive...
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
A3801000
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:01 pm

tu204 wrote:
A3801000 wrote:
It’s the second free and fair undisputed election in a row in Ukraine and it’s beginning to look like a democratic tradition in a region filled with despots and dictators. The message the Ukrainian people are sending to Russia is if we can do it, you can do it. Putin and his paid trolls don't like this, because reasons.
Ukraine, despite still having big problems seems to be on the right track.


What.message are thr Ukrainians sending to Russia again?
How to destroy your economy and country in a few years?
Its amazing that anyone actually thinks thay the disaster of a country that Urkraine became can actually be viewed as something positive...

Considering Ukraine is going forward, even if slowly, while Russia sees its future in selling oil, gas and anything else it can dig out of their soil but nothing else, well :D
 
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Tugger
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:14 pm

tu204 wrote:
What.message are thr Ukrainians sending to Russia again?
How to destroy your economy and country in a few years?
Its amazing that anyone actually thinks thay the disaster of a country that Urkraine became can actually be viewed as something positive...

Well one good message could be to not ban/jail your political competitors.

And how do you view a country with Russia's size, resources, history, and population as not being a disaster of a country?

I mean it might not be as big a "disaster" as others around it (it seems to work hard to ensure disaster strikes them). Russia has a smaller economy than Italy! It's GDP is about the size of the state of Texas! And have you looked at Russian's life expectancy? It may have a strong military, but it absolutely can't flex it, it would run out of money. As it is it is living on the past glory of the USSR (which was from the combined resources of 15 republics).

But hey, pride in country, all good. Yay. (And you can try to lob Trump at me, I am in the US, but I can't/won't defend that bloviating fool.)

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:10 am

A3801000 wrote:
Russia sees its future in selling oil, gas and anything else it can dig out of their soil but nothing else, well :D


Why do you think selling oil is a bad thing? USA, for example, are actively sanctioning other oil producers, engaging into threats and are ready to fight to sell more oil. Many, if not most, nations (especially Western ones) want to buy from the world more than they sell to the world. Russia isn’t one of those at least.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:58 am

anrec80 wrote:
Why do you think selling oil is a bad thing?


Paris agreement, bam. Russia signed it as well. No long term future in fossil fuels, so that is bad news for Russia. Glad to help you out there.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:22 am

Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Why do you think selling oil is a bad thing?


Paris agreement, bam. Russia signed it as well. No long term future in fossil fuels, so that is bad news for Russia. Glad to help you out there.


Ahh yeah, I forgot you’re a green person. The world though is not quite there yet. First, Russia has not yet ratified this agreement. And even then - how will you produce steel and aluminum? On wind or on solar? And one more - can a European middle class family (with all your carbon offset and other taxes) afford all-electric heating in winter? In Canada at least a middle class family can’t, gotta do either wood or fossil. And about poor Ukraine I am not even taking - their economy can’t afford even coal and gas to heat their housing stock, let alone electricity.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:49 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Why do you think selling oil is a bad thing?


Paris agreement, bam. Russia signed it as well. No long term future in fossil fuels, so that is bad news for Russia. Glad to help you out there.


Ahh yeah, I forgot you’re a green person. The world though is not quite there yet. First, Russia has not yet ratified this agreement. And even then - how will you produce steel and aluminum? On wind or on solar? And one more - can a European middle class family (with all your carbon offset and other taxes) afford all-electric heating in winter? In Canada at least a middle class family can’t, gotta do either wood or fossil. And about poor Ukraine I am not even taking - their economy can’t afford even coal and gas to heat their housing stock, let alone electricity.


Where do you think the last oil will come from? Saudi Arabia with a price to pomp it of around 5dollar or Russia with a price north of 40dollar? Russia can't afford the Paris agreement.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:31 am

Dutchy wrote:
Where do you think the last oil will come from? Saudi Arabia with a price to pomp it of around 5dollar or Russia with a price north of 40dollar? Russia can't afford the Paris agreement.


You are giving too much meaning to this Paris agreement. The world does not revolve around it. USA got out of it, and nobody here makes any tragedy out of it. Russia signed it, but let's see if they will ratify it. Yes, these things slow growth of demand for energy, but for now Gazprom keeps building Nord Stream 2, and its share on European gas market is breaking records. And in addition, a new gas pipeline to China ("Force of Siberia") is coming online this year.

And - you are worried about Russia and its economy too much. 5 years ago everyone truly believed "it will take only a few months of sanctions and then they will come to negotiation table, return Crimea, etc.". Where things are 5 years later? Russians after all made it work for themselves, and it's the EU who is sick and tired of this sanctions thing. You should worry about your economy - big debts, budged and trade deficits, etc. Russia is doing fine in those regards.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:49 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Where do you think the last oil will come from? Saudi Arabia with a price to pomp it of around 5dollar or Russia with a price north of 40dollar? Russia can't afford the Paris agreement.


You are giving too much meaning to this Paris agreement. The world does not revolve around it. USA got out of it, and nobody here makes any tragedy out of it. Russia signed it, but let's see if they will ratify it. Yes, these things slow growth of demand for energy, but for now Gazprom keeps building Nord Stream 2, and its share on European gas market is breaking records. And in addition, a new gas pipeline to China ("Force of Siberia") is coming online this year.

And - you are worried about Russia and its economy too much. 5 years ago everyone truly believed "it will take only a few months of sanctions and then they will come to negotiation table, return Crimea, etc.". Where things are 5 years later? Russians after all made it work for themselves, and it's the EU who is sick and tired of this sanctions thing. You should worry about your economy - big debts, budged and trade deficits, etc. Russia is doing fine in those regards.


Just goes to show you know as much as Trump in regards how state finances work.

I would say, Russia don't turn your economy around and just stay dependent on fossil fuels. Let's see where you stand in 20/30 years. And with Russia's economy for the near future, Putin will need another war soon to turn the attention away from the economic hardship.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:10 am

Dutchy wrote:
I would say, Russia don't turn your economy around and just stay dependent on fossil fuels. Let's see where you stand in 20/30 years. And with Russia's economy for the near future, Putin will need another war soon to turn the attention away from the economic hardship.


This is what I propose as well - let’s wait and see what Russia will do. Speaking of war, I am more concerned about Europe and especially France - Macron is likely to need a “small victorious war” to solve his problems. Just as Sarcozy decided to have one against Qaddafi and created your refugee mess.
 
A3801000
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:26 am

anrec80 wrote:
And - you are worried about Russia and its economy too much. 5 years ago everyone truly believed "it will take only a few months of sanctions and then they will come to negotiation table, return Crimea, etc.". Where things are 5 years later? Russians after all made it work for themselves,


Sure :D Depending on the situation it is always either 'Sanctions just make us stronger' or 'We don't deserve the sanctions, take them off'. Funny bunch those russians.

Russian economy is a joke, it is only oil and gas they sell and as the rest of the world advances less and less gas and oil will be needed.
What I find truly surprising is that Putin seems to not care at all about the future, no plans where the russian economy should go in the future. All other big oil exporters are working on alternatives, Russia is not even advancing on indoor plumbing. Big money only goes into the military but not into education/economy etc. Anyone with a brain iis still leaving the country while corruption soars and is well ahead of Ukraine.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:00 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
I would say, Russia don't turn your economy around and just stay dependent on fossil fuels. Let's see where you stand in 20/30 years. And with Russia's economy for the near future, Putin will need another war soon to turn the attention away from the economic hardship.


This is what I propose as well - let’s wait and see what Russia will do. Speaking of war, I am more concerned about Europe and especially France - Macron is likely to need a “small victorious war” to solve his problems. Just as Sarcozy decided to have one against Qaddafi and created your refugee mess.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: cute how you turn arguments 180degrees.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A3801000
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:16 pm

Putin signs a decree to simplify procedure for Ukrainians in parts of Russia-occupied Donbas to get Russian passports. A clear provocation from Moscow that was expected after election. He's hurt.
 
tu204
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:51 pm

A3801000 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
A3801000 wrote:
It’s the second free and fair undisputed election in a row in Ukraine and it’s beginning to look like a democratic tradition in a region filled with despots and dictators. The message the Ukrainian people are sending to Russia is if we can do it, you can do it. Putin and his paid trolls don't like this, because reasons.
Ukraine, despite still having big problems seems to be on the right track.


What.message are thr Ukrainians sending to Russia again?
How to destroy your economy and country in a few years?
Its amazing that anyone actually thinks thay the disaster of a country that Urkraine became can actually be viewed as something positive...

Considering Ukraine is going forward, even if slowly,


I don't see where you see Ukraine moving forward, but allright. Whatever floats your boat. If this is considered "moving forward", man am I glad I am not Ukranian...
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
A3801000
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:34 pm

tu204 wrote:
I don't see where you see Ukraine moving forward,


I am not surprised
 
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fallap
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:50 am

tu204 wrote:
Scipio wrote:
Dogman wrote:
Ukraine is getting less corrupted, may be not as fast as I would like to, but the progress is noticeable. The most important thing is that the people are not afraid of their government, and the government knows that they do not have a stranglehold on power, like Putin does. So, they cannot abuse the system as freely as before, and the fact that we hear about more incidents of corruption is just a result of more openness.


Absolutely.

The second round of Ukraine's Presidential elections is due this coming Sunday, and it looks like President Poroshenko will be ousted by his challenger Volodymyr Zelenskyi.
Mind you, Zelenskyi seems to be backed by oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi, so his election would open another can of worms.

But, at least, Ukrainians have the freedom to replace their President. It is a freedom Russians do not have.


To my friends in Ukraine: You guys are electing you President, it is pretty pathetic to mix this in with Russia.

It is not Russia's fault you guys managed to flunk your economy, you guys did this by yourselves.


Deliberately building a bridge that is too short to accommodate thirty per cent of all shipping going in and out of the Kerch Strait, certainly helps flunking Ukraine's economy...
Ex grease monkey buried head to toe inside an F-16M
Now studying Political Science
 
tu204
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:19 am

A3801000 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
I don't see where you see Ukraine moving forward,


I am not surprised


Well yeah...it takes a special interpretation of reality to see something positive in a situation where freedom of speech has regressed, people being jailed for posts made online, the ammount of political prisoners has grown since Yanukovitch was overthrown, corruption only increaded, quality of life tanked.

Where is there any movement forward to be seen here?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tu204
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:22 am

fallap wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Scipio wrote:

Absolutely.

The second round of Ukraine's Presidential elections is due this coming Sunday, and it looks like President Poroshenko will be ousted by his challenger Volodymyr Zelenskyi.
Mind you, Zelenskyi seems to be backed by oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi, so his election would open another can of worms.

But, at least, Ukrainians have the freedom to replace their President. It is a freedom Russians do not have.


To my friends in Ukraine: You guys are electing you President, it is pretty pathetic to mix this in with Russia.

It is not Russia's fault you guys managed to flunk your economy, you guys did this by yourselves.


Deliberately building a bridge that is too short to accommodate thirty per cent of all shipping going in and out of the Kerch Strait, certainly helps flunking Ukraine's economy...


Blaming Russia for all of Ukraine's economic problems isn't too productive.

You do realize that there are Russian ports on the Azov sea aswell, right? And Ukraine could have participated in the planning of the bridge, had they not been acting like little kids and cutting all sorts of ties to Russia.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
A3801000
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:31 am

tu204 wrote:

Well yeah...it takes a special interpretation of reality to see something positive in a situation where freedom of speech has regressed,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

tu204 wrote:
people being jailed for posts made online,
That's Russia, not Ukraine: https://www.osce.org/representative-on- ... dia/406775

Why do you Russians lie so obviously all the time? Needs a few seconds to debunk the nonsense. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
Do you believe rest of the world is stupid? Do you think being russian gives you credibility?
 
tu204
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:26 pm

A3801000 wrote:
tu204 wrote:

Well yeah...it takes a special interpretation of reality to see something positive in a situation where freedom of speech has regressed,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

tu204 wrote:
people being jailed for posts made online,
That's Russia, not Ukraine: https://www.osce.org/representative-on- ... dia/406775

Why do you Russians lie so obviously all the time? Needs a few seconds to debunk the nonsense. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
Do you believe rest of the world is stupid? Do you think being russian gives you credibility?


Ummm...read some Ukrainian news, watch Ukrainian blogger Anatoliy Sharij. He actually backs up his statements.

Then theres dead journalists (Oles Buzina). If you are critical of the regime in Ukraine, your life really is in danger.

As far as bullshit ratings go, they can shove them where the sun don't shine. It's like thr North Korean Central News agency saying that DPRK is the least propaganda filled place in the world.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
A3801000
Posts: 562
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:43 pm

tu204 wrote:

Then theres dead journalists (Oles Buzina). If you are critical of the regime in Ukraine, your life really is in danger.


That is a bit rich coming from a Russian, can you even still count all journalists murdered by Putins regime?

Here is some help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_j ... _in_Russia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_fre ... ournalists

tu204 wrote:
As far as bullshit ratings go, they can shove them where the sun don't shine. It's like thr North Korean Central News agency saying that DPRK is the least propaganda filled place in the world.


Russia is in a downwards spirale, may it be freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom to demonstrate etc. Putin is moving Russia back to Stalin times while at the same time playing the poor victim. And to make the Ivan Average happy Russia attacks neighboring countries and tries to destabilize the west.

More then 20% of Russian households still don't have indoor plumbing, have to make them happy before they complain, right?

Here in Berlin are many russians (maybe just like you), telling me all day how great Russia is and how fantastic Putin is. They only go silent when I ask them why they have left everything and everyone behind in the holy land and moved to Germany to live here ;)
 
Scipio
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:54 pm

tu204 wrote:
Well yeah...it takes a special interpretation of reality to see something positive in a situation where freedom of speech has regressed, people being jailed for posts made online, the ammount of political prisoners has grown since Yanukovitch was overthrown, corruption only increaded, quality of life tanked.

Where is there any movement forward to be seen here?


This is just complete fiction, not backed up by any facts. The only exception is that the quality of life of Ukrainian citizens has indeed suffered, but in the first place as a result of Putin's aggression and, as a delayed effect, from Yanukovich's corruption.
 
tu204
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:07 am

Scipio wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Well yeah...it takes a special interpretation of reality to see something positive in a situation where freedom of speech has regressed, people being jailed for posts made online, the ammount of political prisoners has grown since Yanukovitch was overthrown, corruption only increaded, quality of life tanked.

Where is there any movement forward to be seen here?


This is just complete fiction, not backed up by any facts. The only exception is that the quality of life of Ukrainian citizens has indeed suffered, but in the first place as a result of Putin's aggression and, as a delayed effect, from Yanukovich's corruption.


https://www.youtube.com/user/SuperSharij

Here you go. Knock yourself out.

And for the love of God please stop blaming Russia/Putin/USSR/Stalin/Brezhnev for your own incompetence. Your people managed to turn the most developed republic with the highest standards of living in the USSR into Europe's armpit. Your national "idea" of Ukraine is not Russia has only accelerated in the last 5 years and completely tanked whatever reserve potential you guys had left since the days of the USSR.

There are what, like 6-7 million Ukranians living in Russia? Shouldn't that be a sign for you guys? By the way, nice job shitting on your constitution and not letting them vote. Very democratic. :lol:
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tu204
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:12 am

A3801000 wrote:
tu204 wrote:

Then theres dead journalists (Oles Buzina). If you are critical of the regime in Ukraine, your life really is in danger.


That is a bit rich coming from a Russian, can you even still count all journalists murdered by Putins regime?

Here is some help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_j ... _in_Russia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_fre ... ournalists

tu204 wrote:
As far as bullshit ratings go, they can shove them where the sun don't shine. It's like thr North Korean Central News agency saying that DPRK is the least propaganda filled place in the world.


Russia is in a downwards spirale, may it be freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom to demonstrate etc. Putin is moving Russia back to Stalin times while at the same time playing the poor victim. And to make the Ivan Average happy Russia attacks neighboring countries and tries to destabilize the west.

More then 20% of Russian households still don't have indoor plumbing, have to make them happy before they complain, right?

Here in Berlin are many russians (maybe just like you), telling me all day how great Russia is and how fantastic Putin is. They only go silent when I ask them why they have left everything and everyone behind in the holy land and moved to Germany to live here ;)


Check out that link that I posted above. All the actual facts you need that show all the "progress" of Ukraine in the last couple years.

Dunno where you get the figures about Russian indoor plumbing, probably the same kind of places I get information that you guys have portaits of Hitler above your dinner table.

As far as why your Russian buddies don't go back to Russia, well, simple answer - go back to what? It is not easy to show to yourself and others that you made a screw up back in the day, sold your (free, government provided) house for a few thousand and thought that life was better off elsewhere...especially when their friends and aquaintances have since made something of themselves. I have seen the same thing in Canada. Loser mentality.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
A3801000
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:32 pm

Yawn, same old, same old

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/ ... say-a65049

Keep dreaming about the great and mighty Russia while at the same time whining about the bad, bad west. Always the same broken record.
Now you see Ukraine moving in the right direction and of course you can't let that happen, so you come up with your Soros/Nazi/Fascist propaganda. That might work with your babushkas back home, the same ones who believe your nonsense why russians in the west don't go back to the fatherland where milk and honey bla bla bla.
I wonder why they all drink themselves to death if it is such a fantastic place.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Ukraine crisis - 5 years on

Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:48 pm

tu204 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/user/SuperSharij

Here you go. Knock yourself out.

Interesting... are there any bloggers/investigative journalists like this in Russia? We have a huge number of them in the USA and obviously Ukraine has at least one (who is on the run perhaps but still posting!). But I am not seeing Russian journalists like this, posting stories looking into issues within Russia. We all know every country has issues that need to be addressed, looked into by citizens and independent parties. Why doesn't Russia seem to have any within its borders? :scratchchin:

Tugg
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