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PanzerPowner
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Ongoing situation with India and Pakistan

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:05 am

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 161568.cms
Indian Aircraft crossed the LoC to bomb terrorist camps causing Pakistan to scramble their airforce.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
Well uh, I obviously decided to refine this but i dont know how.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:40 am

not good with two nucleair powers involved.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:21 am

This seems to be getting more coverage than their usual skirmishes. Seems to be a big deal? I thought they're always striking each other in that area.
 
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unrave
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:01 pm

Significant because for the first time since 1971 (when there was an actual war between the two countries) Indian Air Force has crossed into Pakistani territory and struck militant targets.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:21 pm

So Pakistan air defenses didn't got a whiff of the Indian jets entering their country's airspace and bombing this camp?
 
A3801000
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:27 pm

Unverified from different twitter sources:
- Heavy cross border firing going on all along the LoC from Akhnoor, Sunderbani, Nowshera, Rajouri, Balakot and Mankot area of Rajouri and Poonch in Jammu.
- PAKISTAN CALLS MEETING OF COMMAND AUTHORITY OVERSEEING USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS, ARMY SPOKESMAN SAYS
 
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Aesma
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:45 pm

Pakistan does nothing against militant Islamists roaming their country.

Acts surprised when someone does something about it.

Haven't we seen this all before ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Flaps
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:17 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
So Pakistan air defenses didn't got a whiff of the Indian jets entering their country's airspace and bombing this camp?


You mean the same air defenses that had no idea that the US was conducting the Bin Ladin raid until after it was over?
 
BarfBag
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:51 pm

This wasn't a skirmish between India and Pakistan. The target of the raid was this terrorist's organization:
Maulana Masood Azhar
Maulana Masood Azhar (Urdu: محمد مسعود اظہر) is the founder and leader of the UN-designated terrorist group Jaish-e-Mohammed, active mainly in the Pakistani Occupied Kashmir.

Jaish-e-Muhammad
Jaish-e-Mohammed (Urdu: جيش محمد‎, literally "The Army of Muhammad", abbreviated as JeM) is a Pakistan-based[1] Deobandi[2] jihadist[2][3] terrorist group active in Kashmir.

Infrastructure
JeM originally operated training camps in Afghanistan, jointly with the other militant groups. After the fall of the Taliban government, it relocated them to Balakot and Peshawar in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and Muzaffarabad in Pakistan OccupiedKashmir


The IAF hit the camps in Balakot and Muzaffarabad, Masood Azhar was released from Indian captivity during the hostage exchange in Kandahar during the IC 814 hijacking, Azhar was primarliy complicit in the murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, the son of the legendary Turing Award winning Israeli-American Judea Pearl.

The reason that there was no skirmish between the forces is that the Pakistanis are of course aware of these terrorists on their territory, and let the Indian Air Force handle the matter this time.

The IAF party consisted of 12 Mirage 2000s, top cover by about 6-10 Sukhoi Su-30MKIs, additional AEW and AWACS and refueling assets, since the raid origininated 500kms from the target. The Mirages carried 1000kg SPICE PGMs that were dropped on the target.

Among those killed appear to include Masood Azhar's brother Maulana Talha Saif, head of the JeM terrorist preparatory wing:
Image
Mufti Azhar Khan Kashmiri, head of JeM Kashmir terrorism operations:
Image
Ibrahim Azhar, brother of Masood Azhar:
Image
Ground level Indian intel showing US, UK and Israel flags on the steps of the entrance of terrorist training camps for people to step upon:
Image
 
Magog
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:37 am

Thanks for that clarification. That changes the narrative immensely.
 
sibibom
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:45 am

Will there be a full blown out war? Resounding NO, because Pakistan is broke and can't sustain a war beyond a few days. People in India at the moment are. in no panic or fear of a war.

Will there be a nuclear misadventure? Again NO, because as Gen Musharraf put it, if Pakistan fires one, India will respond with 50 obliterating Pakistan. If Pakistan starts with 50 nukes, the world will react badly, besides India will still fire back. India will never use nukes first.

Will this escalate? Most likely, Modi can change the narrative of the election campaign from the economy, joblessness or any other issue where he has been losing support with national security, where he is head and shoulders above the rest. His victory in the General Election in April-May2019 is all but assured at this point baring a glaring misadventure. Its a dramatic shift from December 2018 where it seemed a little uncertain. Plus Pakistan has its own domestic compulsions, it needs to be seen as reacting.

In the history of India-Pakistan power struggle, this at the moment is the most opportune time for India to gain a lot a strategic advantage. Pakistan's economy is precarious juncture. They can't afford a war or even isolation. The USA under Trump and Bolton will look the other way in case of a conflict. Russia is moving from India's orbit lately, but we are still friends. China is the only real opposition. However Chinese are distracted with Trade Wars and they have a lot of investments in India (Xiaomi, Oppo/Vivo/Oneplus/Haier etc) and they need India to join the belt and road Initiative. They don't want to jeopardize this. However, if India pushes too hard, they will join in and support Pakistan. But if this minor conflict can lead to a negotiation which works out a compromise on at least Belt and Road passing thru Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, China will want that outcome.

Will there be negotiation/talks? Eventually yes. India will come to the table when in the position of power and that might happen during Modi's next term. Probably depending if Trump stays (in which case it will be delayed) or someone else comes to power, in which case talks may start by 2020s.
 
JJJ
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:03 am

P1aneMad wrote:
So Pakistan air defenses didn't got a whiff of the Indian jets entering their country's airspace and bombing this camp?


Apparently they have now.

Pakistan shoots down two Indian fighter jets: Foreign ministry
Pakistani military spokesperson says they shot down two Indian aircraft inside its airspace and captured one pilot.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/ ... 37142.html

Not good.
 
sonicruiser
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Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:07 am

Several aircraft belonging to both IAF and PAF have been shot down by both sides in the last few hours due to high tensions and border incursions. Due to this threat, civilian aircraft have been diverted away from the border airspace.

https://www.khaleejtimes.com/internatio ... n-Kashmir-
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:16 am

JJJ wrote:
P1aneMad wrote:
So Pakistan air defenses didn't got a whiff of the Indian jets entering their country's airspace and bombing this camp?


Apparently they have now.

Pakistan shoots down two Indian fighter jets: Foreign ministry
Pakistani military spokesperson says they shot down two Indian aircraft inside its airspace and captured one pilot.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/ ... 37142.html

Not good.


This is escalating rapidly. Reports now that India has just shot down a Pakistani F-16.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:25 am

The "fighter" Pakistan claims to have shot down is a Hawk trainer:

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/43759 ... y-pakistan
 
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unrave
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:44 am

Operations halted at 8 Indian airports. Pakistani airspace closed for ALL aircraft
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:45 am

VSMUT wrote:
The "fighter" Pakistan claims to have shot down is a Hawk trainer:

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/43759 ... y-pakistan


Link says mig-21 though, with the other still unidentified.
 
LH658
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:46 am

Hope it comes to a end, from both side, and life can resume normally. P.S Please no negative comments.
 
Armodeen
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:53 am

SV796 JED-PEW turned back over Pakistan and seems to be returning to Jeddah.

Some flights are transiting southern Pakistan.
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 476
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:55 am

Pakistan has banned Indian aircraft from its airspace, several other flights are now diverting.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:59 am

Jouhou wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
The "fighter" Pakistan claims to have shot down is a Hawk trainer:

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/43759 ... y-pakistan


Link says mig-21 though, with the other still unidentified.


Photo is clearly a Hawk 132.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:04 am

Image

Definitely an F-16 or JF-17 shot down.
 
SGAviation
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:07 am

SQ308 SIN-LHR, AY122 DEL-HEL and BY419 KBV-HEL all seem to be diverting to BOM.
 
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unrave
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:10 am

No flights overflying Pakistani airspace currently
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
B747forever
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:11 am

Wow, check flightradar24. Quite a mess with all those flights between Asia-Europe deviating in order to avoid Pakistani airspace.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
anshabhi
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:14 am

Very sensitive situation. At this point if no further aggression is shown by either side, the situation can be defused.
A full blown and possibly nuclear war is not far away otherwise.
Also Indian media's war mongering isn't stopping soon.
 
B747forever
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:14 am

unrave wrote:
No flights overflying Pakistani airspace currently

BA256 DEL-LHR is the only flight still in Pakistani airspace.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Pakistan Scrables Aircraft In Response to Indian Airstrikes

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:15 am

Reports of another Pakistani F-16 shot down.
 
LH658
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:19 am

AI144 is avoiding PK air space, EWR - BOM.
 
LH658
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:19 am

PK airspace is quite empty.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:20 am

B747forever wrote:
unrave wrote:
No flights overflying Pakistani airspace currently

BA256 DEL-LHR is the only flight still in Pakistani airspace.


I spotted the same. How did that make it?
Vahroone
 
max999
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:21 am

unrave wrote:
Operations halted at 8 Indian airports. Pakistani airspace closed for ALL aircraft


Which Indian airports are closed?
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
B747forever
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:22 am

Spiderguy252 wrote:
B747forever wrote:
unrave wrote:
No flights overflying Pakistani airspace currently

BA256 DEL-LHR is the only flight still in Pakistani airspace.


I spotted the same. How did that make it?


They must have missed the memo ;)
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
fortunerunnner
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:22 am

AI102 and AI126 also taking a long detour and are currently over Iran.
 
Armodeen
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:24 am

B747forever wrote:
unrave wrote:
No flights overflying Pakistani airspace currently

BA256 DEL-LHR is the only flight still in Pakistani airspace.


G9530 and FZ432 also transited southern Pakistan. Both now outside as they continue on their routes.
 
fortunerunnner
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:24 am

max999 wrote:
unrave wrote:
Operations halted at 8 Indian airports. Pakistani airspace closed for ALL aircraft


Which Indian airports are closed?


Srinagar, Amritsar, Leh, Jammu and Chandigarh are supposedly closed for now. NDTV reporting that the current note from DGCA states the airports are shut down for 3 months. This is just speculative at this time and will probably be revisited once things are clear and cooler heads prevail.
 
dozerman
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:24 am

SGAviation wrote:
SQ308 SIN-LHR, AY122 DEL-HEL and BY419 KBV-HEL all seem to be diverting to BOM.


I think they are actually just flying south to circumvent Pakistani airspace. EK583 (DAC-DXB), AY142 (BKK-HEL) and DY7206 (BKK-ARN) are also doing the same. SU271 (BKK-SVO), BG1 (DAC-LHR) and KU286 (DAC-KWI) are looking like they might divert to BOM, but it is a bit early to tell.
 
EmoticonsAllDay
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:25 am

anshabhi wrote:
Very sensitive situation. At this point if no further aggression is shown by either side, the situation can be defused.
A full blown and possibly nuclear war is not far away otherwise.
Also Indian media's war mongering isn't stopping soon.


OMG, can't agree more. But by nuclear war, its mutual destruction of both countries so I'm sure both countries will stay away from nuclear weapons. If the situation doesn't improve, I guess there will be intervention by UN backed by other countries to prevent a possible WW 3.
 
fortunerunnner
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:27 am

Looks like couple of flights departed from IXL and are on the way to DEL. Perhaps stuck planes are allowed to leave from closed airports.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:29 am

Image

What do you reckon is going to happen to this flight?
Vahroone
 
avier
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:29 am

The other foreign carriers are sure going to be pissed to be paying the price for the issues between the two countries. SQ A380 of SIN-LHR seems to be taking a long detour.

Hope a.net mods now realise that aviation doesn't exist in a vacuum and such issues affect the industry.
 
B747forever
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:30 am

Check out PS 388 (CMB-KBP), looks like it is about to enter Pakistani airspace!
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
fortunerunnner
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:33 am

Spiderguy252 wrote:
Image

What do you reckon is going to happen to this flight?


My guess is, if this does not have enough fuel on board, it will go to DXB or somewhere in Middle East, refuel and head to DEL.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:33 am

Spiderguy252 wrote:
Image

What do you reckon is going to happen to this flight?

It has diverted to Tashkent in the past. I would suggest take a fuel stop there, and fly around Pakistan to enter India.
FDL will be an issue for sure
 
debonair
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:34 am

B747forever wrote:
They must have missed the memo ;)


Like BA149 in Kuwait... :duck:
 
VTORD
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:34 am

Currently everyone is going off of only 1 ANI report which states that a PAF F-16 has been shot down. There are pictures circulating on Pakistan twitter handles that are actually IAF incidents ranging from 2016 through the Suryakiran crash of last week. Also it seems an Mi-17 has gone down with 4 casualties. So please guys calm down. Let's not jump to WW3 and nuclear war. Yet.
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 476
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:37 am

VTORD wrote:
Currently everyone is going off of only 1 ANI report which states that a PAF F-16 has been shot down. There are pictures circulating on Pakistan twitter handles that are actually IAF incidents ranging from 2016 through the Suryakiran crash of last week. Also it seems an Mi-17 has gone down with 4 casualties. So please guys calm down. Let's not jump to WW3 and nuclear war. Yet.


Both Pakistani shootdowns of IAF have been confirmed by several international media sources, confirmation of the Indian shootdown of PAF is still pending. Pakistan has also captured one IAF pilot, other is confirmed dead.

EDIT: PAF has captured a second IAF pilot.
Last edited by sonicruiser on Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
B747forever
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Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:40 am

debonair wrote:
B747forever wrote:
They must have missed the memo ;)


Like BA149 in Kuwait... :duck:


Ouch!
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
dozerman
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:52 pm

Re: Parts of Indian and Pakistani airspace closed after multiple shootdowns

Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:43 am

Looks like TK6548 (IST-MAA) and ZF7747 (VKO-PQC) are returning to their departure airports. SU278 (SVO-HKT) is going south to avoid Afghan and Pakistani airspace.

anshabhi wrote:
It has diverted to Tashkent in the past. I would suggest take a fuel stop there, and fly around Pakistan to enter India.
FDL will be an issue for sure


They already passed Tashkent. Probably going elsewhere. AIC126 (ORD-DEL) is also in the same situation.
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