Aesma wrote:

Pakistan does nothing against militant Islamists roaming their country.

Sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it?

Pakistani aerospace appears to be shut down. Indian airlines have been banned from flying over Pakistan. EK (and a few others) cancelled flights to Pakistan. North India looks empty as well. This thread should be reserved solely for discussions on impacts to aviation; political debates over the issue will not end well.

In case you missed it:
-On Feb. 14, a terrorist attacked a convoy of Indian policemen in the Indian side of Kashmir. Kashmir has been disputed between India and Pakistan since 1947, and a "line of control" (LOC) splits the Indian 2/3s from the Pakistani third of the region. 40 died.

-A terrorist group known as Jaish-e-Mohammed claimed responsibility for the attack. This group is based in Pakistan and has numerous bases inside Pakistan. India claims that the Pakistani government is harboring and sheltering this group.

-Modi government retaliates on Feb. 26, bombing a terrorist camp. Indian jets flew past the LOC into Pakistani territory. It is currently disputed as to whether these bombs actually hit the target.

-Indian fighter jet shot down over Pakistan on Feb. 27. Pakistani fighter jet shot down over India on the same day.

-Over the last few hours, a state of emergency has been declared in Karachi. Pakistani cities are undergoing blackouts for fear of Indian air raids. Tanks moving towards LOC on both sides. Both countries are sporadically shelling and firing over the LOC. Many large cities in India, such as Delhi and Mumbai are on a state of "high alert".

-Reports on social media, from both sides, that you can hear fighter jets constantly taking off at various airbases near the border.

-Both countries have nuclear weapons.

You know the ME3's bread and butter are all those business travelers
going to/from India . If that get's shut off for even a short time, the
effects could get ugly in a hurry

It's currently being discussed in Non-Av, but the original thread was here, then it got out of hand. Hopefully this thread keeps on topic...

As mentioned in the other thread, there have been boatloads of diversions or route adjustments.

Uzbekistan Airways HY441 diverted back to TAS, then was dispatched again operating a TAS-ATQ via Turkmenistan/Iran/Sea/India. They ended up flying more than 2800 nm (6+ hours) on a route that is normally just over 630 nm (2+ hours).

dtw2hyd wrote:

TUA555 seem to determined to complete the flight

Uzbekistan Airways HY441 diverted back to TAS, then was dispatched again operating a TAS-ATQ via Turkmenistan/Iran/Sea/India. They ended up flying more than 2800 nm (6+ hours) on a route that is normally just over 630 nm (2+ hours).

fortunerunnner wrote:

blueflyer wrote:

Apparently Air Canada and United have decided it is not safe enough to land in India today, however Air France and Lufthansa are on the way. BA's morning flight delayed an hour... Flipping a coin?

I dont think this has anything to do with how safe is to land at BOM or DEL. Both are quiet safe and nowhere close to Pakistan border with no imminent danger. What matters is whether the planes can overfly Pakistan on their way to India which at the moment is not happening. This is the reason why AC and UA are apparently not operating the flight as with detour, the plane cannot reach BOM & DEL without a refueling stop somewhere on the way which they don't want to do. European carriers have no such restriction as even with the detour, they can easily make it to both DEL/BOM without the need for additional stop.

Why would they not want to refuel somewhere along the way? Surely it has to be cheaper than make a two-hour diversion to offload passengers, bear the cost of booking them onto other flights to their destination, and ferry two 777s back to EWR empty? If they had fuel for India, they had fuel for dozens of suitable refueling stops along the way.

BarfBag wrote:

Pakistan's response has been to use their military to target Indian military. Now why would they do that ?

Well, India's air force embarrassed Pakistan's military, going in and out as they did. This may explain that.

steex wrote:

As mentioned in the other thread, there have been boatloads of diversions or route adjustments.

Uzbekistan Airways HY441 diverted back to TAS, then was dispatched again operating a TAS-ATQ via Turkmenistan/Iran/Sea/India. They ended up flying more than 2800 nm (6+ hours) on a route that is normally just over 630 nm (2+ hours).

Could they not have gone the other way down? Eastern route?

North Indian airspace and airports have been opened now. The questions which would be asked here have been mostly answered in non-av thread already.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1416613

steex wrote:

As mentioned in the other thread, there have been boatloads of diversions or route adjustments.

Uzbekistan Airways HY441 diverted back to TAS, then was dispatched again operating a TAS-ATQ via Turkmenistan/Iran/Sea/India. They ended up flying more than 2800 nm (6+ hours) on a route that is normally just over 630 nm (2+ hours).

Apologies if there is an obvious answer, but couldn't they have just gone over China into India?

blueflyer wrote:

fortunerunnner wrote:

blueflyer wrote:

Apparently Air Canada and United have decided it is not safe enough to land in India today, however Air France and Lufthansa are on the way. BA's morning flight delayed an hour... Flipping a coin?

I dont think this has anything to do with how safe is to land at BOM or DEL. Both are quiet safe and nowhere close to Pakistan border with no imminent danger. What matters is whether the planes can overfly Pakistan on their way to India which at the moment is not happening. This is the reason why AC and UA are apparently not operating the flight as with detour, the plane cannot reach BOM & DEL without a refueling stop somewhere on the way which they don't want to do. European carriers have no such restriction as even with the detour, they can easily make it to both DEL/BOM without the need for additional stop.

Why would they not want to refuel somewhere along the way? Surely it has to be cheaper than make a two-hour diversion to offload passengers, bear the cost of booking them onto other flights to their destination, and ferry two 777s back to EWR empty? If they had fuel for India, they had fuel for dozens of suitable refueling stops along the way.

That is the question better answered by UA and AC, I have no information on why they choose the option they chose. Having said that, UA48 is currently on its way to BOM and so does UA82 on its way to DEL. Apparently UA doesnt believe India is unsafe because both flights are currently operating as planned with the detour to not use Pakistan airspace.

PS - This might be be done yesterday because taking a fuel stop on the way would have put their crew over limit and hence not taken as an option. Today with a different flight plan from the get go, its not an issue.

blueflyer wrote:

Why would they not want to refuel somewhere along the way? Surely it has to be cheaper than make a two-hour diversion to offload passengers, bear the cost of booking them onto other flights to their destination, and ferry two 777s back to EWR empty? If they had fuel for India, they had fuel for dozens of suitable refueling stops along the way.

It would have been incredibly difficult for North American airlines to enter friendly Gulf nations without entering Iran and Iraq, and that's why they cancelled entirely probably

dmstorm22 wrote:

steex wrote:

As mentioned in the other thread, there have been boatloads of diversions or route adjustments.

Uzbekistan Airways HY441 diverted back to TAS, then was dispatched again operating a TAS-ATQ via Turkmenistan/Iran/Sea/India. They ended up flying more than 2800 nm (6+ hours) on a route that is normally just over 630 nm (2+ hours).

Apologies if there is an obvious answer, but couldn't they have just gone over China into India?

Just look at the terrain on the eastern part. The elevations there average around 14k ft, hence would be unsuitable in case of emergencies like decompression, engine failure, or emergency landing, as there aren't many airstrips there and the aircraft wouldn't be able to come down to a safe breathable altitude.

avier wrote:

Just look at the terrain on the eastern part. The elevations there average around 14k ft, hence would be unsuitable in case of emergencies like decompression, engine failure, or emergency landing, as there aren't many airstrips there and the aircraft wouldn't be able to come down to a safe breathable altitude.

And even if you had the right aircraft for a long flight over high terrain (four engine aircraft with additional oxygen for all passengers), I doubt you will get an overflight permission from China on such short notice. Maybe in a year or so...

A picture that purportedly shows wreckage of the F-16 downed by the IAF yesterday.

Source: ANI

steex wrote:

Uzbekistan Airways HY441 diverted back to TAS, then was dispatched again operating a TAS-ATQ via Turkmenistan/Iran/Sea/India. They ended up flying more than 2800 nm (6+ hours) on a route that is normally just over 630 nm (2+ hours).

Assuming, of course, this is a jet flight, I wonder why some flights, like this one (not talking obviously of today's flight but generally) take longer than they are supposed to. I mean if a jet can go 500 mph, why would it take 2 or more hours on a 629 nautical mile flight??

Phoenix-Tucson is another example...110 air miles...that should be a 15 minute flight, 25 minutes at most...but it takes 45...

unrave wrote:

A picture that purportedly shows wreckage of the F-16 downed by the IAF yesterday.

Source: ANI

This piece is expected to from F16 engine
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1100995296052441088?s=19

Apparently this is a video of F16's wreckage being taken away https://twitter.com/MdShafiKhatana/stat ... 04096?s=19

Not trying to get off topic or political, I just pray for peace.

Humans forget that all we need to solve things is love for each other, peace and talks. Not tanks and death.

Peace.

unrave wrote:

A picture that purportedly shows wreckage of the F-16 downed by the IAF yesterday.
Source: ANI

You do realize that Pakistan didn't use F-16's, right? The US and Lockheed Martin would have been the first to confirm it.

Also, this is the same source claiming 300 people were killed in Pakistan. If 300 people were actually killed, Pakistan would have already have nuked some sparsely populated place in India at a minimum.

Now that is quite the detour!

sonicruiser wrote:

You do realize that Pakistan didn't use F-16's, right? The US and Lockheed Martin would have been the first to confirm it . Also, this is the same source claiming 300 people were killed in Pakistan. If 300 people were actually killed, Pakistan would have already have nuked some sparsely populated place in India at a minimum.

IAF says it. PAF denies it. I trust the IAF. Pakistan has already been caught lying about the non existent second pilot.
The haven't nuked so looks like Pakistan is terrified.

HotelWhiskey wrote:

Now that is quite the detour!

A SpiceJet B738 did the same KBL-DEL in 6.5 hours. Quite remarkable for a B738

Check out playback of flight SG22 from Kabul to Delhi on Flightradar24. https://fr24.com/data/flights/sg22#1fa2695e

anshabhi wrote:

unrave wrote:

A picture that purportedly shows wreckage of the F-16 downed by the IAF yesterday.

Source: ANI

This piece is expected to from F16 engine
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1100995296052441088?s=19

Apparently this is a video of F16's wreckage being taken away https://twitter.com/MdShafiKhatana/stat ... 04096?s=19

That video appears to be the mig 21. Which actually confirms that the photo of the flattened mig is real.

Pakistan looks pretty isolated now with their airspace closure. Literally no civilian flights, including their own, in that region.

Wonder if such a bold move to close their entire airspace might serve as a red flag for any new foreign carrier to consider flying there ever.

Jouhou wrote:

That video appears to be the mig 21. Which actually confirms that the photo of the flattened mig is real.

"Purportedly". Nobody denies IAF was shot

Haven’t seen anyone mention the effect on PIA yet, with their country’s airspace closed I imagine all ops are grounded and aircraft are stuck at various destination airports? Or are they exempt.

sonicruiser wrote:

unrave wrote:

A picture that purportedly shows wreckage of the F-16 downed by the IAF yesterday.
Source: ANI

You do realize that Pakistan didn't use F-16's, right? The US and Lockheed Martin would have been the first to confirm it.

Also, this is the same source claiming 300 people were killed in Pakistan. If 300 people were actually killed, Pakistan would have already have nuked some sparsely populated place in India at a minimum.

Um...PAF has flown F-16's for decades now. The Soviet Air Force even shot one down during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

unrave wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

That video appears to be the mig 21. Which actually confirms that the photo of the flattened mig is real.

"Purportedly". Nobody denies IAF was shot

Did more research, yes everything in that post is chunks of mig 21. No F-16.

Wtf South Asian media is really bad at reporting.

Jouhou wrote:

Did more research, yes everything in that post is chunks of mig 21. No F-16.

Wtf South Asian media is really bad at reporting.

The nerve centre of Fake News

AntonioMartin wrote:

Assuming, of course, this is a jet flight, I wonder why some flights, like this one (not talking obviously of today's flight but generally) take longer than they are supposed to. I mean if a jet can go 500 mph, why would it take 2 or more hours on a 629 nautical mile flight??

Phoenix-Tucson is another example...110 air miles...that should be a 15 minute flight, 25 minutes at most...but it takes 45...

Off topic... But first, don't confuse statute miles with nautical miles. Second, the plane doesn't spend all of the flight doing 500mph over the ground, it needs to climb at lower speeds and often reduce the speed during a significant part of descent as well. That 630nm is about 730 'normal' miles. So even with the flight having a ground speed of 500mph all the time, it will take ~80-90 minutes. Add in climb, descent, taxi etc.... Not even going into the effect of wind on ground speed. Or the fact that flights are not always just direct lines as the crow flies. Your Phoenix-Tuscon flight however is usually only about 25 minutes actual time in the air, the rest you will spend on the ground taxiing.

Air Canada Flight 42 was turned around over Sweden and returned to Toronto.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA ... /CYYZ/CYYZ

DenverA330 wrote:

Um...PAF has flown F-16's for decades now. The Soviet Air Force even shot one down during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Not only do they fly F-16's, they also fly the JF-17 which was the aircraft of choice for this mission. India has made the mistake of claiming to shoot down an aircraft that was not even in the air at the time of the attack. These inconsistencies will slowly unravel themselves and be exposed piece by piece, just like the 300 people India has claimed to kill or the initial denial of any pilots captured.

Fiedman wrote:

Air Canada Flight 42 was turned around over Sweden and returned to Toronto.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA ... /CYYZ/CYYZ

They seem to prefer continuing ops. to the financial capital rather with their AC 46 en-route to BOM from YYZ. Wonder if the DEL detour would be too much of a operational concern.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA46

sonicruiser wrote:

DenverA330 wrote:

Um...PAF has flown F-16's for decades now. The Soviet Air Force even shot one down during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Not only do they fly F-16's, they also fly the JF-17 which was the aircraft of choice for this mission. India has made the mistake of claiming to shoot down an aircraft that was not even in the air at the time of the attack. These inconsistencies will slowly unravel themselves and be exposed piece by piece, just like the 300 people India has claimed to kill or the initial denial of any pilots captured.

The fact that India's claim to kill "300 terrorists", is considered as "300 people" by Pakistanis is quite disheartening, and just reflects the general attitude towards militancy there.

Looks like limited flight service is now resuming from Pakistan. At least one international flight took off and is currently in air https://www.flightradar24.com/ABY825/1fa5af1d

Looks like PEW is now reopened by Pakistan. Air Arabia just took off from PEW on its way to RKT - https://www.flightradar24.com/ABY825/1fa5af1d

anshabhi wrote:

sonicruiser wrote:

DenverA330 wrote:

Um...PAF has flown F-16's for decades now. The Soviet Air Force even shot one down during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Not only do they fly F-16's, they also fly the JF-17 which was the aircraft of choice for this mission. India has made the mistake of claiming to shoot down an aircraft that was not even in the air at the time of the attack. These inconsistencies will slowly unravel themselves and be exposed piece by piece, just like the 300 people India has claimed to kill or the initial denial of any pilots captured.

The fact that India's claim to kill "300 terrorists", is considered as "300 people" by Pakistanis is quite disheartening, and just reflects the general attitude towards militancy there.

If Pakistan goes and kills 300 people tomorrow that is far right Hindu group, that harms Kashmirs and, that attacks minorities, threatening to promote attack on Pakistan, that has inside help promote separatist movements, or cause violence in Pakistan, then India would consider those 300 Hindu terrorist normal citizens as well. Not saying such people deserve the title of citizenship that promote terrorism etc. Though their no report of 300 plus people died, these days with social media it would have been already gone viral.

PM Khan of Pakistan offered peace with India, I can't remember last time India actually wanted to sit down, and talk about Kashmir, let not forget the harsh treatment Kashmiri face, low caste Hindus, Sikhs with 1984, Hindus feeding minorities, cow poop, local women/tourist getting rapped, Muslim Bollywood stars who couldn't get flats due to their religion, and etc list can go on. We can sit here pick at each other flaws, though really disgusting on such forum about traveling, and aviation forum people can produce such hate/negativity constantly.

Indians never offered proof of this attack etc, Pakistan offered help in the investigations do it what it can on proper evidence, I guess also India busy with Navy Officer who got caught in Pakistan conducting chaos across Pakistan, also to busy interrogating that "Spy Pigeon." Talk facts, check out our PM Khan speech, vs PM Modi. Lol..

Though Indian envoy at the UN canceled their meeting with Pakistanis for whatever odd reason, oh wait their election in India, I guess anti Pakistan gets votes in India. Then for long time the Pakistani have offered Karturpur Corridor, Indians weren't interested until BJP try secure Punjab, and failed again to do that. Even some Indian politicians have called out the attacks as politically motivated as well.

If Pakistan is building Kartupur Corridor to facilitate Sikhs across India, why would it want to cause such issues? We have PM that is even famous with Indians off or on the cricket field.

PM Modi landed unexpectedly in Lahore, and attended the Former PM Sharif grand daughter wedding, they never throw him out, cause Pakistan knows how to treat guest.

Pakistan has it own situations, is busy with promoting it country etc, and all you guys can do is project negativity due to your election.

Go on Google news type in Pakistan, there probably atleast 3 to 4 Indian media sites reporting on whatever going in on Pakistan. India showed our whole election, who is winning, and loosing. In Pakistan no one cares who winning in India, and etc, only thing people care is films, and cricket concerning India.

You don't hear Pakistani politicians during election period orchestrating hate towards India for votes.


Pure shame how some people can always orchestrate hate, and negativity, on forum where you need to have understanding/respect, as aviation enthusiast love to travel, which involves meeting people across the World etc.

It smart for Pakistan shut down it air space, India did the same as well, though resumed quicker, though Pakistan, shares entire border one 1 side with India, most of Pakistani populations live east of the Indus River, Pakistan isn't that large in width, in case India wants to do another heinous attack then it can target Karachi, Lahore, Sialkot, Bahawalpur, ISB, and other airports. Same for Pakistan they can target such places India, that is why India closed down it air space as well, though after certain time India thought it safe to open back up. Pakistan might wanted to take it time, and plus didn't want any commercial jets to get hit get etc, by either side. It has nothing about who wants to really add fuel to the fire cause they closed off it air space etc, just look at the map you will get your answers. Plus Pakistan deals with difficulties with terrorist coming from Afghanistan etc, so it doesn't want to create any ruckus at the moment near such important places like Quetta, and Peshawar airport etc.

fortunerunnner wrote:

Looks like limited flight service is now resuming from Pakistan. At least one international flight took off and is currently in air https://www.flightradar24.com/ABY825/1fa5af1d

Looks like both EK & Air Arabia are getting their aircraft out of the country which had remained stuck there since yesterday.

LH658 wrote:

If Pakistan goes and kills 300 people tomorrow that is far right Hindu group, that harms Kashmirs and, that attacks minorities, threatening to promote attack on Pakistan, that has inside help promote separatist movements, or cause violence in Pakistan, then India would consider those 300 Hindu terrorist normal citizens as well. Not saying such people deserve the title of citizenship that promote terrorism etc. Though their no report of 300 plus people died, these days with social media it would have been already gone viral.

PM Khan of Pakistan offered peace with India, I can't remember last time India actually wanted to sit down, and talk about Kashmir, let not forget the harsh treatment Kashmiri face, low caste Hindus, Sikhs with 1984, Hindus feeding minorities, cow poop, local women/tourist getting rapped, Muslim Bollywood stars who couldn't get flats due to their religion, and etc list can go on. We can sit here pick at each other flaws, though really disgusting on such forum about traveling, and aviation forum people can produce such hate/negativity constantly.

Indians never offered proof of this attack etc, Pakistan offered help in the investigations do it what it can on proper evidence, I guess also India busy with Navy Officer who got caught in Pakistan conducting chaos across Pakistan, also to busy interrogating that "Spy Pigeon." Talk facts, check out our PM Khan speech, vs PM Modi. Lol..

Though Indian envoy at the UN canceled their meeting with Pakistanis for whatever odd reason, oh wait their election in India, I guess anti Pakistan gets votes in India. Then for long time the Pakistani have offered Karturpur Corridor, Indians weren't interested until BJP try secure Punjab, and failed again to do that. Even some Indian politicians have called out the attacks as politically motivated as well.

If Pakistan is building Kartupur Corridor to facilitate Sikhs across India, why would it want to cause such issues? We have PM that is even famous with Indians off or on the cricket field.

PM Modi landed unexpectedly in Lahore, and attended the Former PM Sharif grand daughter wedding, they never throw him out, cause Pakistan knows how to treat guest.

Pakistan has it own situations, is busy with promoting it country etc, and all you guys can do is project negativity due to your election.

Go on Google news type in Pakistan, there probably atleast 3 to 4 Indian media sites reporting on whatever going in on Pakistan. India showed our whole election, who is winning, and loosing. In Pakistan no one cares who winning in India, and etc, only thing people care is films, and cricket concerning India.

You don't hear Pakistani politicians during election period orchestrating hate towards India for votes.


Pure shame how some people can always orchestrate hate, and negativity, on forum where you need to have understanding/respect, as aviation enthusiast love to travel, which involves meeting people across the World etc.

Good words. But as long as attacks like Pulwama happen, peace talks are very far away. Everytime India thought about peace talks, a new terrorist attack happened, the origin of which is always well known, and denied.

I was meant to do PEW tomorrow morning, just got put onto standby with rostering remaining hopeful that by tonight, Pakistani airspace will open once again and tomorrows flight schedules will go ahead as planned. As per NOTAMS from the Pakistan CAA, the closure is in effect until 2359 this evening, still waiting to see if it'll be extended or will close out without extension.

(A0200/19 NOTAMN
Q)OPXX/QRAXX///W/000/999/
A)OPKR OPLR
B)1902270730 C)1902282359 EST
E)PAKISTAN AIRSPACE IS CLOSED.)

fortunerunnner wrote:

Looks like PEW is now reopened by Pakistan. Air Arabia just took off from PEW on its way to RKT - https://www.flightradar24.com/ABY825/1fa5af1d

Qatar has also been able to get an aircraft out and enroute to DOH: https://www.flightradar24.com/QTR6NV/1fa5bf20

There's a couple of flights out from Karachi and Multan respectively as well, so perhaps the Pakistani authorities are permitting empty ferry flights out of the country for the time being?

Edit: Meanwhile, the Uzbekistan return flight from Amritsar to Tashkent keeps plugging on: https://www.flightradar24.com/UZB442/1fa551f3

L410Turbolet wrote:

Aesma wrote:

Pakistan does nothing against militant Islamists roaming their country.

Sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it?

+1

sonicruiser wrote:

You do realize that Pakistan didn't use F-16's, right? .

Apparently, they did, 8xF16s, Mirage-3s, and JF17s, a total of 24 aircraft.
On Indian side 2xBisons, 4xMKIs, and 2xMirage-2000s.

Pakistan used Amraams (fragment was found on Indian side)
Bisons used R73s.

It is very brave of WC Abhinandan to engage F16s/JF17s with Bison.

Looks like there may be some evidence pointing to an F-16 wreck.

Someone noticed a number on an electronic box in the wreckage, and it is consistent with a Jordanian (ex-Dutch) F-16B.

https://twitter.com/tukupanti/status/11 ... 34/photo/1



80269:

MSN: 78-0269

http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F ... ofile/269/


And then this from 2016:

https://thediplomat.com/2016/06/us-paki ... s-instead/

Being a two-seater, it would also be consistent with initial Indian claims of 2 pilots parachuting down.

4 Saudi 777's now flying in Pakistani airspace, going home I guess. The Prime minister does not want to upset his best friend.

L410Turbolet wrote:

Aesma wrote:

Pakistan does nothing against militant Islamists roaming their country.

Sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it?

If you mean in other countries in the region, and the middle east, then I agree. If you mean my country, I disagree. Here if you look at an ISIS website you can get jail time.

CPH-R wrote:

fortunerunnner wrote:

Looks like PEW is now reopened by Pakistan. Air Arabia just took off from PEW on its way to RKT - https://www.flightradar24.com/ABY825/1fa5af1d

Qatar has also been able to get an aircraft out and enroute to DOH: https://www.flightradar24.com/QTR6NV/1fa5bf20

There's a couple of flights out from Karachi and Multan respectively as well, so perhaps the Pakistani authorities are permitting empty ferry flights out of the country for the time being?

Edit: Meanwhile, the Uzbekistan return flight from Amritsar to Tashkent keeps plugging on: https://www.flightradar24.com/UZB442/1fa551f3

4 Saudi 777's flying in Pakistani airspace going home I guess. Prime Minister Imran Khan will not want to upset his new best friend with the big cheque book.