FlyJYM
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Your Take On Nepotism

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:35 pm

Hello everyone, i'm new here and i would like your opinion. So while growing up, i have always been interested in airplanes and how they fly to the point wanting to become a pilot. So in the past 2-3, i started flight simming on my pc and my older brother(who is a 737 pilot) noticed and started encouraging me (we have discussions all the time about aviation related things). So recently my dad, my brother and my uncle(who is the chief pilot at their airline) had discussions of me becoming a pilot and my dad has agreed to fund my flight training. My uncle has also guranteed me a place in the airline after my training. Now the topic of nepotism came up during discussions with my friends and so i would like to know your opinions on it.

P.S... Sorry for the long back story....
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please do nut use capital letters only
 
Varsity1
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:30 pm

Nepotism is bad.
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jetmatt777
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:36 pm

Generally people who get jobs based on a family member’s record are less respected in the workplace than someone who did it by themselves.

If you do get on with your uncle’s airline I would delete this post and never mention to a soul that you were guaranteed a job because of your relations.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
mwhcvt
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:37 pm

How big is the airline, if it’s only a small airline it’s hardly surprising that this could happen when there’s already 3 family members in the flight pool one as a senior position, but also seems quite often it’s a industry that attracts the children of those already in it, but that will happen in lots of industries, case in point many friends who went into the military also had close relatives, fathers brothers etc that served
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
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casinterest
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:42 pm

Neoptism is very bad if you are incompetent . If you can do the job, then do the job and get it on your own.
Was your uncle offering you a job or an interview, as these are not always the same thing.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
NIKV69
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:43 pm

Having friends and or relatives in high places is a fact of life As has been stated just keep it quiet and go about your business.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
KICT
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:45 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Having friends and or relatives in high places is a fact of life As has been stated just keep it quiet and go about your business.

No Nick, we aren't going to allow Trump to install Trump Jr. as the next POTUS.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
NIKV69
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:50 pm

KICT wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Having friends and or relatives in high places is a fact of life As has been stated just keep it quiet and go about your business.

No Nick, we aren't going to allow Trump to install Trump Jr. as the next POTUS.


Of course not, Ivanka is better!
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
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Aesma
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:53 pm

Once you have done the necessary training you can interview for several airlines and see how that goes.

The industry isn't really about competency it seems anyway, much more about seniority.

Financing the training (at least in the US) is expensive so since you have that out of the way, you should concentrate on not just making it but being the best possible.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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sturmovik
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:00 pm

I went to flight school in India for my PPL, and a lot of my fellow students there were working towards a CPL. The firsts ones in a batch to get jobs were always the ones who had family working for an airline. I've seen grossly incompetent pilots get hired and become 737 captains while extremely good pilots slog it out working at a desk for a dodgy charter operator in the middle of nowhere, or become cabin crew in the hopes of working out connections to finagle their way to a seat at the pointy end. Made me kinda angry to see this. I was there because my employer paid for my flight training, but there were plenty of CPL students who came from lower and middle class families who stretched their budgets and depleted their savings, while Captain Kangaroo Jr from airline family gets to porpoise the A320 first week out of type rating </snark>.
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trpmb6
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:20 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
KICT wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Having friends and or relatives in high places is a fact of life As has been stated just keep it quiet and go about your business.

No Nick, we aren't going to allow Trump to install Trump Jr. as the next POTUS.


Of course not, Ivanka is better!


BOOM

Agreed, Ivanka would be much better.

Just don't go around bragging about your connections. And honestly, I doubt your uncle is actually doing you any favors. Probably all he is able to do is send your resume to the HR department. Doubtful he can actually pull strings to get you in as that would run afoul of equal opportunity employment regulations.
 
KICT
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:22 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Agreed, Ivanka would be much better.

Why? Because you find her attractive? Like a Fox News actress?
People are saying. Believe me.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:31 pm

KICT wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Agreed, Ivanka would be much better.

Why? Because you find her attractive? Like a Fox News actress?


Why does it have to be about someone's looks or personality or how they dress?

I like some of things that she is currently advocating for. Is that so hard to believe?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:13 pm

FlyJYM wrote:
Hello everyone, i'm new here and i would like your opinion. So while growing up, i have always been interested in airplanes and how they fly to the point wanting to become a pilot. So in the past 2-3, i started flight simming on my pc and my older brother(who is a 737 pilot) noticed and started encouraging me (we have discussions all the time about aviation related things). So recently my dad, my brother and my uncle(who is the chief pilot at their airline) had discussions of me becoming a pilot and my dad has agreed to fund my flight training. My uncle has also guranteed me a place in the airline after my training. Now the topic of nepotism came up during discussions with my friends and so i would like to know your opinions on it.

P.S... Sorry for the long back story....


Fact of life, everywhere, you need to know the right persons and if you are a competent (or will be), then you can do the job, so why not? Enjoy your connections, why would you take the hard road while there is the easy one? One point, as mentioned by others, you need to be competent and probably mistakes will be harder to forgive by your peers. And if you have gotten a leg up by someone, it also signs on them if you fail (not that you will though ;-)), so there is the added pressure of that.

So go for it, if your desire is to become a commercial pilot.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
chimborazo
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:09 pm

On the face of it the situation you are describing it is not nepotism. They pay for your training and give you a job. I assume the caveat is that you actually have to be able to pass everything you need to to get the licences....

Known connections that offer you support, routes through training and then finding a job you can do (even in their company) is not nepotism.

Beware the green-eyed monster responses from those not lucky enough to be in your situation.

Only real thing to say is make the best of this wonderful opportunity you’ve been given.

Not having the right qualifications/skills etc and then being given a job over someone else who does, because of your connections, is nepotism.

But nepotism is widespread... give your drinking buddy a few weeks work helping out on a building site cos you like him (when he hasn’t got the appropriate certificate and others have) is nepotism.
 
Jalap
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:04 am

This is a very interesting question.

Nepotism is a bad thing if incompetent people get into positions, just because they have the connections to get there.

On the other hand, people you are connected to usually have a good idea of who you are and what your potential is. If they are sincere and they truely feel you would be an asset to the company, then this most certainly is a good thing.

I have a say in the hiring policy in the organisation I work for. If people in my network apply for a job, this could be an advantage for them, or a disadvantage. Because I know who the person is.

So if your uncle knows who you are, what your qualifications are (or will be), and he is sincere, then be honoured if he offers you the position. That is NOT nepotism. That is headhunting!
 
seb146
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:18 am

FlyJYM wrote:
Hello everyone, i'm new here and i would like your opinion. So while growing up, i have always been interested in airplanes and how they fly to the point wanting to become a pilot. So in the past 2-3, i started flight simming on my pc and my older brother(who is a 737 pilot) noticed and started encouraging me (we have discussions all the time about aviation related things). So recently my dad, my brother and my uncle(who is the chief pilot at their airline) had discussions of me becoming a pilot and my dad has agreed to fund my flight training. My uncle has also guranteed me a place in the airline after my training. Now the topic of nepotism came up during discussions with my friends and so i would like to know your opinions on it.

P.S... Sorry for the long back story....


Funding your flight training and you becoming a pilot because you have family as pilots is great. Best of luck to you!

Your uncle guaranteeing you a job is another matter. Looking in from the outside, this raises a red flag for me. Both my parents worked in the medical field. I am sure I could have gotten a job as a CNA at one of their facilities (they worked in different facilities) and that would have seemed a little shady.

If you have proven yourself to the senior staff and are certified, do not rely on your uncle. Do it on your own. It may be harder, but it will be yours.
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aerorobnz
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:35 am

Nepotism is a fact of life, the world over. It is human nature to create advantages to your own blood - that is instinctive for us to look after blood relatives where we can. It sucks for everyone else but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take the advantages offered to you. What you have to do is not try hard to qualify in your own right. You need to prove to yourself and to them that you are good enough or you will have insecurities that won't be broken down in later life once your elders inevitably pass/move on from the company. Your colleagues won't care so much if they know you have hit the same target as them, if you are an entitled asshole then you will get a lot of grief.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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BartSimpson
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:40 am

After high school I applied for an apprenticeship in a big manufacturing company. They openly stated that having the choice between two equally qualified candidates they would prefer the one with a relative (father, mother, etc) in the company. It was their way of improving job satisfaction.

It's okay - provided that the new applicant is actually competent for the job. And I hope your uncle knows that. Guaranteeing you a job before training even starts could backfire on you. What do you do if you fail the tests? Have you considered that?
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:09 pm

It is somewhat of a truism that for blue collar jobs nepotism is often the rule. It was used for a long time to keep certain jobs available only to certain ethnic subgroups. The other side of that was workers generally made sure they preserved their credibility by ensuring that the 'nepotists' would do the job. I remember my dad who was a job dispatcher had some one or two talent guys, and would be careful to explain to contractors what these guys could or couldn't do. And likewise, the contractor could say what special skills and abilities he needed, and that man would appear.

Pilots are obviously not blue collar, but the requirements, training, and temperament on the job are objective requirements and fellow pilots know who can and who cannot do the job. Heck, a surgeon friend brought his kid into the practice - but the other partners had to interview and approve the hiring. Was that nepotism?
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Moose135
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Re: YOUR TAKE ON NEPOTISM

Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:35 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Heck, a surgeon friend brought his kid into the practice - but the other partners had to interview and approve the hiring. Was that nepotism?


Maybe - if the kid was an equally qualified doctor with no connections to the practice, would he have gotten an interview to join the practice, or did he get the interview because his father was a partner? Did the partners feel some pressure to approve the hiring, perhaps thinking if they rejected him, it would lead to problems within the partnership?
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Your Take On Nepotism

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:57 pm

In those sorts of professional circles it is hard or impossible to get a real interview. But the expectations are so high that someone would not want to join if they were not up to snuff. Equally true of law practices I was familiar with. Being really good is not enough.
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