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trpmb6
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:25 pm

Dutchy wrote:
DL717 wrote:
They take the lazy way out and round it to 2.


Or did you take the lazy way out and rounded it up to six feet :lol:


Imagine all the costs associated with burying people piled up over the years because someone decided to bury people at 2 meters instead of 6 feet. Oh the humanity!
 
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BirdBrain
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:26 pm

In the commercial aircraft cockpit isn't the temperature of air, oil, and gas always in Celsius whereas other things may or may not be in metric. Or did I get this wrong Or is it dependent where the aircraft operates?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:48 pm

Aesma wrote:
Since we're on an aviation site, most countries use feet for altitude, nm for distance, kn for speed, be it for planes or boats. Time to go metric !


Have you flown as a pilot in metric altitudes? How do you like 300m spacing? It’s wasnt just that Americans used Imperial measures for altitude, it was that one sweep of the needle on an altimeter was 1,000’ feet and that made for easily read altitude separation, especially with three-pointer altimeters.

GF
 
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Aesma
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:50 pm

FatCat wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Since we're on an aviation site, most countries use feet for altitude, nm for distance, kn for speed, be it for planes or boats. Time to go metric !

that I think is because the planes were invented in the us of a.


Planes weren't invented in the USA. A US plane is claimed to be the first to fly (barely).

That plane had no instrument of any kind so it's not that relevant anyway.

nm and kn come from boats, it's self evident, it's in the name : nautical mile !

flyingturtle wrote:
Like, 1 knot is one nautical mile per hour, and one nautical mile is a minute of arc near the equator.


So that makes some sense at the slow speed of boats, and no sense at all for aircraft.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:07 pm

KentB27 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
KentB27 wrote:
I seriously doubt that the US will ever fully convert to the metric system. It would be very costly and take years to completely convert. One huge hurdle I see is that changing all of the highway markings and signs to kilometers would be a massively time consuming and expensive undertaking that realistically isn't necessary.


In France we just changed our speed limit for undivided highways from 90 to 80 Km/h and the cost to change the signs was a few millions euros, for 11000 of them.


The United States is about 18x the size of France and our highway networks is eons larger. It's not going to be easy or cheap to convert to kilometers. It would create more trouble than it's worth to convert. Also, changing speed limits is far less disruptive than having different parts of the country in two different measurement systems in the interim period while the conversion to metric is done. If we do ever covert to metric I think we'll still drive in miles per hour like the U.K. does.


About 400 000 Km of roads had to change signage, for a cost of 12 millions euros. I find that the US has 6 million Km of highways, so that would be 180 million euros. Nothing significant, in other words.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
WIederling
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:36 pm

Nobody mentions the core advantage of the metric system:
units are linked to each other in a sane way.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:14 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Every Airbus drawing I've seen was dimensioned in metric and the typical drawing tolerances were similar to what you would see on imperial unit parts that are designed for US OEMs. [Note, I suppose there could be some standard parts and Avionics for instance that are developed for standard use across OEMs that would be used] I once worked for a company that did both. It was seriously not an issue for say a machined part. The CNC program handles all the conversions and what not. It doesn't care what unit system you tell it, it's just scaling everything from its initial location anyways. The main hurdle during the machining process would be changing out your bits to get the right radius on your cuts. But for measuring how long of a pass to make - it doesn't really matter its just a number.

It does matter during quality inspections of course. I suppose its a bit of a headache for those folks having to deal with it on both sides. But again, making a mountain out of a mole hill.

A lot of people are talking about the cost associated with changing out road signs for instance. That's probably a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of changing over all of our standard sheet metal sizes, all the testing that would have to be done to requalify metric sheet sizes etc. The impact to industry would be far more reaching than simply changing out road signs. To the point where we would probably ignore such a change and continue building things the way we currently do. That would just make things worse.

DL717 wrote:
One of my profs many years ago, when this was more of an issue given the push in 1975 was flailing in the wind a few years later, used to joke “base ten is for slackers that don’t want complicated math”. He was old as hell, he hated metric so much he probably insisted in his Will that he be buried six feet under.


What is the equivalent expression for being buried in a country using SI units? "Buried 1.8288 meters under"


CNC machining is not appropriate for all purposes... you have to change out the gears in a manual lathe to make metric threads. We don't have metric micrometers. We have a few digital measuring instruments that can convert. Retooling would be insanely expensive.
 
masi1157
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:22 pm

It has been mentioned before, although not that explicitely. And it is the one very important advantage. Many of the other points mentioned here are just a matter of standardization or simply naming.


Gruß, masi1157
508 different segments on 100 airlines to 211 airports in 55 countries
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 1962
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:26 pm

WIederling wrote:
Nobody mentions the core advantage of the metric system:
units are linked to each other in a sane way.


True.

1km is 1000 meter which is 10'000 decimeter (dm) or 100'000 cm or 1'000'000 mm or (with , as a decimal separator)
1,0000000 km
1000,0000 m
10000,000 dm
100000,00 cm
1000000,0 mm

Same number of digits in the same order. The only things that changes is where you have the , .

Also 1 mm (millimeter) is 1000 µm (mikrometer)

1 statue mile is 1760 yards or 63360 inches really logic.... :roll:
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WIederling
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:04 pm

pushing on a 1kg freely movable mass with a force of 1N with increase its speed at 1m/s every second

mass (1kg) times speed (1m/s) is energy 1J or 1Ws.
...............
try the same with imperial units.
pounds times miles ( which ) is what?
Murphy is an optimist
 
masi1157
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:05 pm

That is the obvious part. But 1Pa = 1N/1m² and 1N = 1kg*1m/1s² and so on. I hope everybody understands those units? N=Newton for force, m=meter for length, kg=kilogramm for mass, s...you should know that one.


Gruß, masi1157
508 different segments on 100 airlines to 211 airports in 55 countries
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:08 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Came across a nice youtube video about the imperial system. And the question arose, when will Myramar, Liberia and The United States, joins the rest of the world and move to the metric system. Seems to me it would only be positive, logical, the system used by science and used by 95% of the people.

Image

It seems to cost billions, two sets of measures, products, mistakes being made etc.

Two notorious mistakes being made by conversions:

Crash of the Boeing 767/Gimli Glider: not enough fuel due to conversion error. Luckely noone was hurt and they could use the aircraft again, so actualy a great landing.

Image

The loss of the mars orbiter because Lockheed Martin used the Imperial system and NASA the metric.

So when will the US enact the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 ;)



We are quite happy with our beer and milk in pints over here.

Our TV sizes in inches.

Calculating miles per gallon.

Driving in miles per hour.

There is no need for the UK to change. Most people seem quite happy.
 
seat64k
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:35 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Calculating miles per gallon.


I find it hilarious that you buy your petrol in litres, but express fuel economy in miles per gallon.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:41 pm

seat64k wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Calculating miles per gallon.


I find it hilarious that you buy your petrol in litres, but express fuel economy in miles per gallon.


It is just easier to work out.

I can’t work out miles per litre.

Same with height. I know we use feet flying, but if someone said that mountain was 4,000 meters, it makes less sense than 22,000 feet.

We are a funny lot in the UK.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:52 pm

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Nobody mentions the core advantage of the metric system:
units are linked to each other in a sane way.


True.

1km is 1000 meter which is 10'000 decimeter (dm) or 100'000 cm or 1'000'000 mm or (with , as a decimal separator)
1,0000000 km
1000,0000 m
10000,000 dm
100000,00 cm
1000000,0 mm

Same number of digits in the same order. The only things that changes is where you have the , .

Also 1 mm (millimeter) is 1000 µm (mikrometer)

1 statue mile is 1760 yards or 63360 inches really logic.... :roll:


True! When my sister was planning to collect rain water from her roof it was quite easy to calculate how much water she would be able to collect, even though we were in the garden with no phone or computer close. The roof has an area of about 120 m2, so 10 mm rainfall gives her 1200 litres water.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:56 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
seat64k wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Calculating miles per gallon.


I find it hilarious that you buy your petrol in litres, but express fuel economy in miles per gallon.


It is just easier to work out.



Yes, it is so easy to work out that some people really believe that a car becomes more economical as soon as it crosses the border northbound.
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Bongodog49
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:41 pm

trpmb6 wrote:

DL717 wrote:
One of my profs many years ago, when this was more of an issue given the push in 1975 was flailing in the wind a few years later, used to joke “base ten is for slackers that don’t want complicated math”. He was old as hell, he hated metric so much he probably insisted in his Will that he be buried six feet under.


What is the equivalent expression for being buried in a country using SI units? "Buried 1.8288 meters under"


In the UK the funeral trade still uses feet and inches, all coffins are specified in imperial and all monumental stone, when however we make applications to councils to place memorials in their cemeteries some insist on metric measurements, so we multiply everything 25.4 to give them complicated numbers !!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:46 pm

Bongodog49 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

DL717 wrote:
One of my profs many years ago, when this was more of an issue given the push in 1975 was flailing in the wind a few years later, used to joke “base ten is for slackers that don’t want complicated math”. He was old as hell, he hated metric so much he probably insisted in his Will that he be buried six feet under.


What is the equivalent expression for being buried in a country using SI units? "Buried 1.8288 meters under"


In the UK the funeral trade still uses feet and inches, all coffins are specified in imperial and all monumental stone, when however we make applications to councils to place memorials in their cemeteries some insist on metric measurements, so we multiply everything 25.4 to give them complicated numbers !!


NHS still allows option for Imperial.

I am 5’10 and 12 and a half stone.

Nothing wrong with allowing people to have choice. If they want to give details in metric or imperial, then they can.
 
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aeromoe
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:24 pm

Dutchy wrote:

1km = 0,6214 miles.
1km = 1.093,664 yards
1km = 3.280,84 feet
1km = 39.370,08 inch

1km= 0mi 1093yd 1ft 10.07860in



Legit question here Dutchy - I'm a yank and I'd like to know the difference between using decimal points and commas in your numerals the way you present them. It seems opposite to what we use.

If it is just the way it is taught where you live I get that.

Thanks.
AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR BY B6 CO CP(2) DG DL EA EI EN FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(1) OZ(2) PA PI PT QF QQ RM RO RV(1) RV(2) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(2) ZZ 9K
 
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ER757
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Re: Imperial System

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:27 pm

falstaff wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
Another good question is, when will the UK settle on one system?


The UK still uses miles. Cars in the UK have mph speedometers.

Canadian railroads still measure distance in miles as far as operations go. The entire Canadian rail network has mile posts, just like in the US.

Reinhardt wrote:
Brexiteers love Imperial, and will surely be pushed to come back primarily as the weight unit of choice.

My friends in the UK are VERY anti EU. They got all worked up when beer glasses at the pub started arriving with metric measurements on them.

Dutchy wrote:
So when will the US enact the Metric Conversion Act of 1975


Hopefully never... The metric system is easier and I like it, but I like the imperial system too. The Imperial system has now become almost unique to the US and is one of the things that makes our country unique.

I learned about the metric system in elementary school. I recall watching a filmstrip called "Here Comes the Metric System" or something like that. My teacher talked about how all of us would be using it by the time we were her age. I am now older than she was at the time and still don't use the metric system. When I drive in Canada I just switch the speedometer units on my truck.

Bostrom wrote:
as Burma/Myanmar mostly uses old burmese units and not the imperial system.

I didn't know that. What do they call them and how to they correspond with the imperial or metric system?

Dutchy wrote:
It seems to cost billions, two sets of measures, products, mistakes being made etc.


I used to own a 1973 Ford F250 that I bought in Canada. It was built with a mph speedometer (Canada hadn't switched at the time). It had a decal placed over the mph speedo with metric units on it. Because the speedometer itself was never changed the odometer calculated miles. There was a mathematical formula printed on it so one could figure out home many kilometers were on it. My friend's dad had bought the truck new and remembers his dad taking the speedo out of the truck and installing the decal on it, that he bought at the Ford dealer, in 1977. My buddy was learning how to drive at the time and his dad didn't want him making any speed related errors by mixing up kph and mph.


Falstaff - we must be close to the same age. I remember my math teacher having signs up in her classroom saying "US going metric, get ready" and such. This is 50 years ago when I was in 8th grade - and yeah, we're still not there
 
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scbriml
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:32 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
We are quite happy with our beer and milk in pints over here.

Our TV sizes in inches.

Calculating miles per gallon.

Driving in miles per hour.

There is no need for the UK to change. Most people seem quite happy.


Milk is priced per litre. Apart from beer, every other liquid is sold in litres be it orange juice, fuel, water or paint. All solid food is sold in Kg.

Calculating fuel consumption in mpg is ludicrous when you buy fuel in litres.

There is a need to change from the stupid half-way house where we currently are with people clinging desperately to the past.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:00 am

aeromoe wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

1km = 0,6214 miles.
1km = 1.093,664 yards
1km = 3.280,84 feet
1km = 39.370,08 inch

1km= 0mi 1093yd 1ft 10.07860in



Legit question here Dutchy - I'm a yank and I'd like to know the difference between using decimal points and commas in your numerals the way you present them. It seems opposite to what we use.

If it is just the way it is taught where you live I get that.

Thanks.


Yes we do the opposite of you. But usually we don't use points at all, just spaces if there is a need to make numbers more readable.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:05 am

Jouhou wrote:
From a defense perspective, the imperial system likely slows down any attempt to steal our designs. If someone tries to replicate something from our drawings, they're going to have to convert EVERYTHING without errors and/or expensively retool themselves.

What's a disadvantage in many industries is an advantage in some.


The US military uses metric.
 
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DL717
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:53 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
DL717 wrote:
They take the lazy way out and round it to 2.


Or did you take the lazy way out and rounded it up to six feet :lol:


Imagine all the costs associated with burying people piled up over the years because someone decided to bury people at 2 meters instead of 6 feet. Oh the humanity!


How do you know when you’re driving behind a Canadian?

They’re doing 70 km per hour in the fast lane.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
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aeromoe
Posts: 805
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:14 am

Aesma wrote:
aeromoe wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

1km = 0,6214 miles.
1km = 1.093,664 yards
1km = 3.280,84 feet
1km = 39.370,08 inch

1km= 0mi 1093yd 1ft 10.07860in



Legit question here Dutchy - I'm a yank and I'd like to know the difference between using decimal points and commas in your numerals the way you present them. It seems opposite to what we use.

If it is just the way it is taught where you live I get that.

Thanks.


Yes we do the opposite of you. But usually we don't use points at all, just spaces if there is a need to make numbers more readable.


Thank you :-)
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Jouhou
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:03 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
From a defense perspective, the imperial system likely slows down any attempt to steal our designs. If someone tries to replicate something from our drawings, they're going to have to convert EVERYTHING without errors and/or expensively retool themselves.

What's a disadvantage in many industries is an advantage in some.


The US military uses metric.


Not for mechanical dimensions. We do for some things, like volume.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:50 am

scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
We are quite happy with our beer and milk in pints over here.

Our TV sizes in inches.

Calculating miles per gallon.

Driving in miles per hour.

There is no need for the UK to change. Most people seem quite happy.


Milk is priced per litre. Apart from beer, every other liquid is sold in litres be it orange juice, fuel, water or paint. All solid food is sold in Kg.

Calculating fuel consumption in mpg is ludicrous when you buy fuel in litres.

There is a need to change from the stupid half-way house where we currently are with people clinging desperately to the past.


But the pints of milk we buy are sold in pint units. You cannot buy a liter of milk.

We do not need to change as we are. People seem quite happy.

If you think it is reasonable to spend hundreds of millions changing every road sign to metric, more fool you.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:25 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
But the pints of milk we buy are sold in pint units. You cannot buy a liter of milk.


Milk is labeled and priced in litres. It just happens to be sold in volumes that correspond to old fashioned pints.

Anyway, aside from beer (and milk if it keeps you happy :sarcastic: ) every other liquid is sold in litres.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
WIederling
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:33 am

aeromoe wrote:
Legit question here Dutchy - I'm a yank and I'd like to know the difference between using decimal points and commas in your numerals the way you present them. It seems opposite to what we use.

If it is just the way it is taught where you live I get that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator#History

different language domain and derivation path.
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:45 am

scbriml wrote:
Anyway, aside from beer (and milk if it keeps you happy :sarcastic: ) every other liquid is sold in litres.


In Germany and over the counter the "Pfund" is still a popular measure. ( 0.5kg with a wide historic spread from ~~300 to ~~550g, move one market place onwards and units wobbled up and down :-)
you buy "ein Viertel" or "halbes Pfund" ground meat, cold cuts, cheese .... while prepackaged stuff is marked in (kilo)gramm.

Same for Zentner ( coparable to the brit centiweight / cwt ) representing 100 Pfund and thus 50kg.
Coal, potatoes, grain ...
Murphy is an optimist
 
FatCat
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:03 am

Aesma wrote:
FatCat wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Since we're on an aviation site, most countries use feet for altitude, nm for distance, kn for speed, be it for planes or boats. Time to go metric !

that I think is because the planes were invented in the us of a.


Planes weren't invented in the USA. A US plane is claimed to be the first to fly (barely).

That plane had no instrument of any kind so it's not that relevant anyway.

nm and kn come from boats, it's self evident, it's in the name : nautical mile !

flyingturtle wrote:
Like, 1 knot is one nautical mile per hour, and one nautical mile is a minute of arc near the equator.


So that makes some sense at the slow speed of boats, and no sense at all for aircraft.

you're right, but mine was a joke ;)
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
ltbewr
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:44 am

I'll give up my Imperial measuring cup when you pull it from my cold dead hands. (old NRA speech reference).

For me, I live in the 'old school measurement' USA, I have traveled all over Europe, and other countries where metric is the rule. No biggie with some conversions. For gasoline/petrol, 4 liters is just under 1 US gallon. Speed 0.6 x Kmh for MPH. Many products are in metric like bottled water (0.5, 1.0 L) and car parts as often imported from or exported to metric countries. Most scientific work in the USA is in metric.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:08 am

scbriml wrote:
Milk is labeled and priced in litres. It just happens to be sold in volumes that correspond to old fashioned pints.

Anyway, aside from beer (and milk if it keeps you happy :sarcastic: ) every other liquid is sold in litres.


And I've also noted that while a package of butter is usually 500 g in most i Europe, in the UK it tends to be 454 g.

But a least the UK took a small step in the right direction recently by requiring dual units on width and height warning signs.
 
masi1157
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:06 am

ltbewr wrote:
For gasoline/petrol, 4 liters is just under 1 US gallon.


No, it is not. 4l is a bit more than a US gallon, but a bit less than a UK gallon.

ltbewr wrote:
Most scientific work in the USA is in metric.


At least they understand the advantage.


Gruß, masi1157
508 different segments on 100 airlines to 211 airports in 55 countries
 
Magog
Posts: 850
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:22 am

Aesma wrote:
Planes weren't invented in the USA. A US plane is claimed to be the first to fly (barely).

These two sentences don’t play well together.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:16 pm

Magog wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Planes weren't invented in the USA. A US plane is claimed to be the first to fly (barely).

These two sentences don’t play well together.


keyword "claimed".

The honor may go to Russia (Alexander Moschaiski) or France (Clément Ader) and in todays world the Wright Brothers would probably have been on the hook for patent infringement (Octave Chanute).

For kicks... all of them happend after the first horse powered flight (Jean Marie Le Bris).

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Magog
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:19 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Magog wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Planes weren't invented in the USA. A US plane is claimed to be the first to fly (barely).

These two sentences don’t play well together.


keyword "claimed".

The honor may go to Russia (Alexander Moschaiski) or France (Clément Ader) and in todays world the Wright Brothers would probably have been on the hook for patent infringement (Octave Chanute).

For kicks... all of them happend after the first horse powered flight (Jean Marie Le Bris).

best regards
Thomas

Sorry, but I’ll go with the consensus of historians. Regardless, the absolute nature of Aesma’s first sentence doesn’t play well with the uncertainty of the second sentence.
 
offloaded
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:39 pm

Funny how with these kinds of threads, something always has to be better than the other. Vive la difference I say. Imperial/metric is probably the closest Brits get to speaking another language, especially with the hybrid version I seem to hear a lot, such as "it's 2 miles up the road, then turn left and it's 100 metres on your right !"

Here in Portugal, a metric country, imperial is in every day use; tyre sizes, TVs etc. A lot of plumbing is in inches. I bought 100m of 1" irrigation tube (1 polegada = inch, which I think comes from "polegar" meaning "thumb") Supergel (cleaning product) Embalagem de 1 galão (package of 1 gallon, although that is rare).

The imperial system wins hands down for songwriters though. "I would walk 804 kilometres, and 804 more ..." nah, I don't think so.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
tommy1808
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:41 pm

Magog wrote:
Sorry, but I’ll go with the consensus of historians. .


Consensus of historians, or consensus of Museums?

Janes, unquestionably experts of everything that flies, have demoted the Wright Brothers a long time ago...... and the Clément Ader bit is pretty much uncontested. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/61/1586/533.1 https://www.jstor.org/stable/40067638?s ... b_contents

The Smithsonian Institution is not "the consensus of historians".

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
masi1157
Posts: 402
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:56 am

Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:07 pm

offloaded wrote:
Funny how with these kinds of threads, something always has to be better than the other.


One of the systems is consistent, the other one is not. That only gets relevant when you think a bit further than just 1gallon or 1mile. It doesn't matter at all if you express distances in miles or kilometer. But it gets vital if you dig a bit deeper into technics or physics. There is a reason why the metric system is widely used in sciences.


Gruß, masi1157
508 different segments on 100 airlines to 211 airports in 55 countries
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:14 pm

scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
But the pints of milk we buy are sold in pint units. You cannot buy a liter of milk.

Milk is labeled and priced in litres. It just happens to be sold in volumes that correspond to old fashioned pints.

No, no, no! Don't let him get away with that outright lie!.

Assuming that Tesco.co.uk is a fair representation of British shopping; their website today offers 601 items corresponding to "milk".
I didn't check them all, but page 1 contained 24 items;
14 were labelled as 2.272 litres / 4 pints (or similar)
10 were labelled 2 litres.... with no imperial equivalent.

So noviorbis77 is wrong both in sense, and in actual detail.
Yes, you can quite easily buy a liter [sic] of milk. (p.s. why would he use the American spelling of "liter"? :scratchchin: )

I also found your analysis of beer to be only partially correct.
Again using samples taken from Tesco.co.uk;
It is probably no surprise that imported beers (San Miguel, Estrella Damm, Asahi, Birra Moretti) come in either 330ml or 500ml sizes (¹)
But how do you explain British ales such as Timmy Taylors, Marstons and Adnams being offered in the same (metric) sizes?

A minority (less than 20%) were sold as "440ml" , and even that isn't a pint - it's 1lb in weight :banghead:

After a more detailed search I found just two listings (out of 249), strangely both for Stella Artois packaged either in 284ml bottles (half a pint) or
568ml cans . Ironically, the Wikipedia page for "pint" features a photo of exactly this product, along with the explanation " A four pack of larger [sic], common in the UK sold in pint sized cans." I guess some rogue Brexiteers have infiltrated wikipedia's editorial team..... :roll:

(¹) If indeed these "foreign " beers have been imported, and not simply brewed somewhere in darkest Kent, under licence. :roll:

In terms of beer available in pints, I'm guessing one or both of you are referring to draught beer as served at a public house.
In which case I would be most intrigued to find a similar establishment serving milk in this way, by the pint, just as noviorbis77 claims.

Fee-fi-fo-fum, I smell a..... TROLL ! :lol:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:17 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Magog wrote:
Sorry, but I’ll go with the consensus of historians. .


Consensus of historians, or consensus of Museums?

Janes, unquestionably experts of everything that flies, have demoted the Wright Brothers a long time ago...... and the Clément Ader bit is pretty much uncontested. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/61/1586/533.1 https://www.jstor.org/stable/40067638?s ... b_contents

The Smithsonian Institution is not "the consensus of historians".

Best regards
Thomas


The Wright Brothers are credited as inventors of the airplane not because they flew, but because they were the first to take flight in a vehicle which:

- Lifted itself using its own power (which gliders and kites did not).
- Was aerodynamically controllable by the pilot (which Ader's aircraft was not).
- Remained in sustained flight, rather than taking momentary flight before returning to Earth.

Ader made a useless toy. The Wright brothers made the first airplane.
 
tommy1808
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Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:21 pm

Magog wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Magog wrote:
Sorry, but I’ll go with the consensus of historians. .


Consensus of historians, or consensus of Museums?

Janes, unquestionably experts of everything that flies, have demoted the Wright Brothers a long time ago...... and the Clément Ader bit is pretty much uncontested. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/61/1586/533.1 https://www.jstor.org/stable/40067638?s ... b_contents

The Smithsonian Institution is not "the consensus of historians".

Best regards
Thomas


The Wright Brothers are credited as inventors of the airplane not because they flew, but because they were the first to take flight in a vehicle which:

- Lifted itself using its own power (which gliders and kites did not).
- Was aerodynamically controllable by the pilot (which Ader's aircraft was not).
- Remained in sustained flight, rather than taking momentary flight before returning to Earth.

Ader made a useless toy. The Wright brothers made the first airplane.


Combining some existing technologies, that they where aware of, into one thing is usually prior art and disqualifying. I, and James and many others, don't think aircraft should be handled differently.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:05 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
But the pints of milk we buy are sold in pint units. You cannot buy a liter of milk.

Milk is labeled and priced in litres. It just happens to be sold in volumes that correspond to old fashioned pints.

No, no, no! Don't let him get away with that outright lie!.

Assuming that Tesco.co.uk is a fair representation of British shopping; their website today offers 601 items corresponding to "milk".
I didn't check them all, but page 1 contained 24 items;
14 were labelled as 2.272 litres / 4 pints (or similar)
10 were labelled 2 litres.... with no imperial equivalent.

So noviorbis77 is wrong both in sense, and in actual detail.
Yes, you can quite easily buy a liter [sic] of milk. (p.s. why would he use the American spelling of "liter"? :scratchchin: )

I also found your analysis of beer to be only partially correct.
Again using samples taken from Tesco.co.uk;
It is probably no surprise that imported beers (San Miguel, Estrella Damm, Asahi, Birra Moretti) come in either 330ml or 500ml sizes (¹)
But how do you explain British ales such as Timmy Taylors, Marstons and Adnams being offered in the same (metric) sizes?

A minority (less than 20%) were sold as "440ml" , and even that isn't a pint - it's 1lb in weight :banghead:

After a more detailed search I found just two listings (out of 249), strangely both for Stella Artois packaged either in 284ml bottles (half a pint) or
568ml cans . Ironically, the Wikipedia page for "pint" features a photo of exactly this product, along with the explanation " A four pack of larger [sic], common in the UK sold in pint sized cans." I guess some rogue Brexiteers have infiltrated wikipedia's editorial team..... :roll:

(¹) If indeed these "foreign " beers have been imported, and not simply brewed somewhere in darkest Kent, under licence. :roll:

In terms of beer available in pints, I'm guessing one or both of you are referring to draught beer as served at a public house.
In which case I would be most intrigued to find a similar establishment serving milk in this way, by the pint, just as noviorbis77 claims.

Fee-fi-fo-fum, I smell a..... TROLL ! :lol:
Even here in the US, our liquids are sold in all sorts of different units in the store. Beer is generally sold in 12 oz cans or bottles, while wine is sold in 750 ml bottles. Milk is pretty much all imperial with gallons, 1/2 gallons and quarts. Pop (or soda, lets not get into that debate) and water is sold in 12 oz., 16 oz., 500 ml, 20 oz., 1l, 2l, and probably more!
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:34 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
But the pints of milk we buy are sold in pint units. You cannot buy a liter of milk.

Milk is labeled and priced in litres. It just happens to be sold in volumes that correspond to old fashioned pints.

No, no, no! Don't let him get away with that outright lie!.

Assuming that Tesco.co.uk is a fair representation of British shopping; their website today offers 601 items corresponding to "milk".
I didn't check them all, but page 1 contained 24 items;
14 were labelled as 2.272 litres / 4 pints (or similar)
10 were labelled 2 litres.... with no imperial equivalent.

So noviorbis77 is wrong both in sense, and in actual detail.
Yes, you can quite easily buy a liter [sic] of milk. (p.s. why would he use the American spelling of "liter"? :scratchchin: )

I also found your analysis of beer to be only partially correct.
Again using samples taken from Tesco.co.uk;
It is probably no surprise that imported beers (San Miguel, Estrella Damm, Asahi, Birra Moretti) come in either 330ml or 500ml sizes (¹)
But how do you explain British ales such as Timmy Taylors, Marstons and Adnams being offered in the same (metric) sizes?

A minority (less than 20%) were sold as "440ml" , and even that isn't a pint - it's 1lb in weight :banghead:

After a more detailed search I found just two listings (out of 249), strangely both for Stella Artois packaged either in 284ml bottles (half a pint) or
568ml cans . Ironically, the Wikipedia page for "pint" features a photo of exactly this product, along with the explanation " A four pack of larger [sic], common in the UK sold in pint sized cans." I guess some rogue Brexiteers have infiltrated wikipedia's editorial team..... :roll:

(¹) If indeed these "foreign " beers have been imported, and not simply brewed somewhere in darkest Kent, under licence. :roll:

In terms of beer available in pints, I'm guessing one or both of you are referring to draught beer as served at a public house.
In which case I would be most intrigued to find a similar establishment serving milk in this way, by the pint, just as noviorbis77 claims.

Fee-fi-fo-fum, I smell a..... TROLL ! :lol:


If you go in a pub in the UK you get a pint or half pint of beer. If you ask for a glass of wine it's measured in ml, bottles of beer are ml, bottles of coke are in ml, medicine is in ml, weight of pills is mg, flour is grams and kgs, steak in a restuarant are in ounces (some also show you grams but most are ounces)

In the UK you can buy milk by both the litre and pint. My folks get milk delivered to their door in bottles, and those bottles are pints. Delivered by a battery powered milkfloat :-)

It's a mess, but in the grand scheme of things that are going wrong in the UK right now it's so far down the list it really doesn't matter.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 11839
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:23 pm

Magog wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Magog wrote:
These two sentences don’t play well together.


keyword "claimed".

The honor may go to Russia (Alexander Moschaiski) or France (Clément Ader) and in todays world the Wright Brothers would probably have been on the hook for patent infringement (Octave Chanute).

For kicks... all of them happend after the first horse powered flight (Jean Marie Le Bris).

best regards
Thomas

Sorry, but I’ll go with the consensus of historians. Regardless, the absolute nature of Aesma’s first sentence doesn’t play well with the uncertainty of the second sentence.


Planes were invented long before one flew.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:43 pm

Aesma wrote:
Magog wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

keyword "claimed".

The honor may go to Russia (Alexander Moschaiski) or France (Clément Ader) and in todays world the Wright Brothers would probably have been on the hook for patent infringement (Octave Chanute).

For kicks... all of them happend after the first horse powered flight (Jean Marie Le Bris).

best regards
Thomas

Sorry, but I’ll go with the consensus of historians. Regardless, the absolute nature of Aesma’s first sentence doesn’t play well with the uncertainty of the second sentence.


Planes were invented long before one flew.

Sure, useless toys. Congratulations. I’m happy that the Wright Brothers actually flew a person in a machine that was aerodynamically controllable.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 707
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:08 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
But the pints of milk we buy are sold in pint units. You cannot buy a liter of milk.

Milk is labeled and priced in litres. It just happens to be sold in volumes that correspond to old fashioned pints.

No, no, no! Don't let him get away with that outright lie!.

Assuming that Tesco.co.uk is a fair representation of British shopping; their website today offers 601 items corresponding to "milk".
I didn't check them all, but page 1 contained 24 items;
14 were labelled as 2.272 litres / 4 pints (or similar)
10 were labelled 2 litres.... with no imperial equivalent.

So noviorbis77 is wrong both in sense, and in actual detail.
Yes, you can quite easily buy a liter [sic] of milk. (p.s. why would he use the American spelling of "liter"? :scratchchin: )

I also found your analysis of beer to be only partially correct.
Again using samples taken from Tesco.co.uk;
It is probably no surprise that imported beers (San Miguel, Estrella Damm, Asahi, Birra Moretti) come in either 330ml or 500ml sizes (¹)
But how do you explain British ales such as Timmy Taylors, Marstons and Adnams being offered in the same (metric) sizes?

A minority (less than 20%) were sold as "440ml" , and even that isn't a pint - it's 1lb in weight :banghead:

After a more detailed search I found just two listings (out of 249), strangely both for Stella Artois packaged either in 284ml bottles (half a pint) or
568ml cans . Ironically, the Wikipedia page for "pint" features a photo of exactly this product, along with the explanation " A four pack of larger [sic], common in the UK sold in pint sized cans." I guess some rogue Brexiteers have infiltrated wikipedia's editorial team..... :roll:

(¹) If indeed these "foreign " beers have been imported, and not simply brewed somewhere in darkest Kent, under licence. :roll:

In terms of beer available in pints, I'm guessing one or both of you are referring to draught beer as served at a public house.
In which case I would be most intrigued to find a similar establishment serving milk in this way, by the pint, just as noviorbis77 claims.

Fee-fi-fo-fum, I smell a..... TROLL ! :lol:



No I am not wrong.

I bought a pint of milk in the shop last night. I am not sure what the litre or milliliter equiv was, but I assure you it was a pint.

Just for your education, pints are sold i bars and pubs. You can buy beer in a half size or full pint size.
 
masi1157
Posts: 402
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:56 am

Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:31 pm

To carry it a step further: It is not only those horribly inconsistent imperial units, that can make using physical formulas a nightmare. There is also the weird way to write and abbreviate them.

In the metric system, at least in physics, there is no plural of unit signs. It is kg, no matter if you talk about 0.5kg, 1kg or 42kg. There is no "kgs" in those cases, that would mean kilogram*second. There is no "sqm", it is m². And of course there are no such things like "psi" or "pcf", they would be pound/inch² or pound/foot³ (no idea what the correct and consistent unit signs for pound, inch or foot are, and I'm not sure if the "p" here stands for a mass or a force). In physics (where I use units and formulas) that makes imperial close to unusable. Unfortunately I have to (try to) understand and convert them day by day, I work in one of those industries.


Gruß, masi1157
Last edited by masi1157 on Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Erebus
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Re: Imperial System

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:33 pm

Is the US the only country in the world that spells it 'liter' and 'meter'?

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