I was raised a Southern Baptist, then I went Pentecostal/Charismatic for awhile, now I'm personally non-denominational, although I attend a Southern Baptist church in rural Missouri.

In the past 6 months, I've become a lot more health-conscious and I've started to notice some things. In the church I attend, the pastor and several other members are overweight and have diabetes. From various articles that I've read, it appears that a large number of Christians in America are overweight and are struggling with related medical issues such as diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease and more.

In 32 years of living, in all of church attendance, I have never once heard a pastor preach on gluttony which, according to the Bible, is a sin. They're all very quick to preach against things such as abortion and gay marriage, but it seems that no one wants to talk about gluttony. It appears to be the most accepted sin and no one wants to do anything about it around here.

I love to eat good food, however I've been learning that in order to be productive citizens, I need to eat healthy and exercise regularly. I'm down net 20 lbs since September, but I've still got a lot of progress to make.

The churches need to address gluttony and they need to strongly encourage healthy living and exercise. I believe that God wants us to be healthy; the churches need to get off the sidelines on this issue and address gluttony.

I wouldn't be convinced that there's a straight line from Christian-ness to the diabetes-inducing gluttony you're alluding to. There's a huge percentage of Americans who have the health problems you describe, and as it happens more than 90% of Americans happen to be Christian. To cite this as a problem with Christians would be specious reasoning.

I beleive what you are describing is the practice of the Baptist faith that relies extensively on Old Testament texts as an interwoven component of the New Testament when they are separate and distinct. One provides historical context and speaks to the coming of Christ, the other about His life and the building of the Church. Most of the “gluttony” text I am aware of is from the Old Testament, particularly Psalms and Proverbs. I’m not certain the term is actually used in the New Testament in such a context, but Old Testament text is often drawn too it to justify a certain behavior for fundamentalist faiths. It’s a component of the Baptist faith that separates Baptist’s from other denominations in some very significant ways. It’s a very fundamentalist position.

DL717 wrote:

I beleive what you are describing is the practice of the Baptist faith that relies extensively on Old Testament texts as an interwoven component of the New Testament when they are separate and distinct. One provides historical context and speaks to the coming of Christ, the other about His life and the building of the Church. Most of the “gluttony” text I am aware of is from the Old Testament, particularly Psalms and Proverbs.

That's true, however I am also aware of a couple of New Testament passages:

“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” ---1st Corinthians 3:17.

“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's” ---1st Corinthians 6:19-20.

And I think the entire world should take issue with gluttony, not just Christians. I guess I should've been more clear on that.

You have to make the distinction between gluttony, which is excessive eating with the intent to deny the food to someone else, and unhealthy eating.

The Southern Baptist denomination is predominant in *shock* the South, which is also a region known for a cuisine that's not exactly healthy. Couple that with governments that do not encourage physical activity, and you have a recipe for obesity. It's no surprise, then, that the most obese states in the union are Southern states which are also among the most religious.

This is not so much gluttony as much as it is a form of sloth (yeah, people may hold down a job, but when it comes to physical activity, they pass).

einsteinboricua wrote:

You have to make the distinction between gluttony, which is excessive eating with the intent to deny the food to someone else, and unhealthy eating.

The Southern Baptist denomination is predominant in *shock* the South, which is also a region known for a cuisine that's not exactly healthy. Couple that with governments that do not encourage physical activity, and you have a recipe for obesity. It's no surprise, then, that the most obese states in the union are Southern states which are also among the most religious.

This is not so much gluttony as much as it is a form of sloth (yeah, people may hold down a job, but when it comes to physical activity, they pass).

Very true. My mother was from southwestern Virginia (Bristol, on the Tennessee border) and many people there eat tons of fried food, drink lots of sugary drinks and alcohol and do not exercise. Many are smokers, also.

It is a struggle sometimes to be healthy and exercise, but it must be done. We have a real crisis in America with health-related illnesses and most of them are entirely preventable. There's got to be a push to be healthy, not just in the church, but worldwide.

Iloveboeing wrote:

DL717 wrote:

I beleive what you are describing is the practice of the Baptist faith that relies extensively on Old Testament texts as an interwoven component of the New Testament when they are separate and distinct. One provides historical context and speaks to the coming of Christ, the other about His life and the building of the Church. Most of the “gluttony” text I am aware of is from the Old Testament, particularly Psalms and Proverbs.

That's true, however I am also aware of a couple of New Testament passages:

“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” ---1st Corinthians 3:17.

“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's” ---1st Corinthians 6:19-20.

And I think the entire world should take issue with gluttony, not just Christians. I guess I should've been more clear on that.

This is an example of what I was referring to. You need to read the entire chapter for context, not pick and choose, then intertwine it with something else. The rest of the chapter will provide you with the context of those statements. Both are sermons to a church and it’s contradicting beliefs and it’s members behavior, not a continuation of an Old Testament proverb about gluttony.

wow. A right wing evangelical telling others not to pick and choose their way through the Bible. just.... wow....

Anyway, poor health is in all religions. Adventists are relatively good about following "your body is a temple" but there are a good number of Adventists with weight related problems. I grew up in a church that preached to live as Jesus and His disciples; love and forgive all and know that I am teaching others about Christ through my words and actions.

People develop health problems. Alzheimer's runs in my family so that is a concern for me. Others, diabetes runs in their families. Some choose to do something about it, others either ignore it or do not do anything because it costs too much. In the end, it has less to do with religion and more with personal choices.

seb146 wrote:

wow. A right wing evangelical telling others not to pick and choose their way through the Bible. just.... wow....

There is a huge difference between those who pay attention and those that just show up on Sunday.

The Missouri Synod is highly critical of other denominations and their interpretations. Including non-Synod Lutheran Churches.

Sounds to me like you are slowly understanding the reality of religions. You don't need to follow fairies to understand how to live a fulfilling and healthy life. If someone who reads you stories doesn't read all the stories in their particular book then I wouldn't worry about it if I was you. Trust what you decide to do based on how and why you decide to do it.

If you think that a churches teachings aren't up to your moral standards then surely then you should understand that the fundamental morals by which you live cannot be given to you by that religion, which means that the church is following morals and not leading them.

There are more people than you think like you and when you finally come out then you will feel better and be able to live a more worry free life.

Fred

seb146 wrote:

Alzheimer's runs in my family so that is a concern for me.

Sounds terrible, why does god not do anything about it?

Fred

Gluttony is not just a feature of American Christianity; it's a virtue. I challenge you to find an American pastor who isn't the picture of gluttony, if not outright preaching it--hey Joel Osteen!

DL717 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

wow. A right wing evangelical telling others not to pick and choose their way through the Bible. just.... wow....

There is a huge difference between those who pay attention and those that just show up on Sunday.

The former can point to a bible verse that justifies their insatiable gluttony?

flipdewaf wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Alzheimer's runs in my family so that is a concern for me.

Sounds terrible, why does god not do anything about it?

Fred

Thoughts and prayers used to be enough but now we have doctors and medicine, too.

I thought I had read somewhere that the Seven Deadly Sins was something thought up by the Roman Catholic Church to keep people in line? I grew up in a Protestant denomination and we held more to the "eat until you are not hungry" philosophy.

seb146 wrote:

flipdewaf wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Alzheimer's runs in my family so that is a concern for me.

Sounds terrible, why does god not do anything about it?

Fred

Thoughts and prayers used to be enough but now we have doctors and medicine, too.

So what is god for?

Christians and Gluttony - yup big problem today.

Christians and morals are also in an area of conflict today
Christians and sex - lots of problems (Catholics)
Christians and Science ....no resolution to be found - they just don't mix.

BN747

BN747 wrote:

Christians and morals are also in an area of conflict today

Just today?
It was Never any different.
Christian morals always was about the morals of others.
Never ever look in the mirror.

flipdewaf wrote:

seb146 wrote:

flipdewaf wrote:

Sounds terrible, why does god not do anything about it?

Fred

Thoughts and prayers used to be enough but now we have doctors and medicine, too.

So what is god for?

People who can't face reality head on and need a crutch but don't like the taste of booze?

flipdewaf wrote:

seb146 wrote:

flipdewaf wrote:

Sounds terrible, why does god not do anything about it?

Fred

Thoughts and prayers used to be enough but now we have doctors and medicine, too.

So what is god for?

Saving me a place in Paradise when my time on this plane ends.

seb146 wrote:

flipdewaf wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Thoughts and prayers used to be enough but now we have doctors and medicine, too.

So what is god for?

Saving me a place in Paradise when my time on this plane ends.

Why would he save you (or anyone) a place ?


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flipdewaf wrote:

seb146 wrote:

flipdewaf wrote:

So what is god for?

Saving me a place in Paradise when my time on this plane ends.

Why would he save you (or anyone) a place ?


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It is comforting for me to know that what I do here will have an impact both here and in my next existence.

Why is this conversation important to you? I am happy to have it. Just know that I only speak for myself.

seb146 wrote:

flipdewaf wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Saving me a place in Paradise when my time on this plane ends.

Why would he save you (or anyone) a place ?


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It is comforting for me to know that what I do here will have an impact both here and in my next existence.

But that doesn’t answer why he would let someone in to his paradise? Just that you think it would be a nice for you to go.

seb146 wrote:

Why is this conversation important to you? I am happy to have it. Just know that I only speak for myself.

I’m interested in how and why people in these enlightened times with so much knowledge and evidence for how our world works wish to suspend and ignore the truth in order to make themselves feel better or justify their actions.

Frre



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Sex, Guns and belief in Trump being a good man are bigger red flags in the world of Christianity than obesity, something they do to them selves.

Abuse, murder and corruption are things they do to others.

Most people in this thread don’t understand the sin of gluttony. The problem of gluttony is not too much food, but too much attention to food. In the broadest ethical sense, gluttony is using food in a way that dulls one from the spiritual and distracts them from God.

Being fat, in and of itself, is not gluttony.

Magog wrote:

Most people in this thread don’t understand the sin of gluttony. The problem of gluttony is not too much food, but too much attention to food. In the broadest ethical sense, gluttony is using food in a way that dulls one from the spiritual and distracts them from God.

Being fat, in and of itself, is not gluttony.

I love how religious people can’t see how narcissistic their god is, “don’t think too much about food because it might distract you from meeeeeeeee!!!!! “

Have you ever thought about how much religion distracts you from the real world and how much better you could make the world if you spent your effort on worthwhile causes?

Fred


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I’m not religious. It just bothered me that the posters here were giving their opinions without actually understanding what they were opining on.

flipdewaf wrote:

seb146 wrote:

flipdewaf wrote:

Why would he save you (or anyone) a place ?


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It is comforting for me to know that what I do here will have an impact both here and in my next existence.

But that doesn’t answer why he would let someone in to his paradise? Just that you think it would be a nice for you to go.

According to my holy book, we all fall short of the grace of God. But, making an effort to live like Christ and be His example here will give God cause to put His arm around me and escort me into paradise saying "well done, my good and faithful servant."

flipdewaf wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Why is this conversation important to you? I am happy to have it. Just know that I only speak for myself.

I’m interested in how and why people in these enlightened times with so much knowledge and evidence for how our world works wish to suspend and ignore the truth in order to make themselves feel better or justify their actions.

I can only speak for me. I hate the idea of nothing after I die. That makes this existence worthless. I don't need my actions justified. When my time here comes to an end, I want people to hear my name and think or say "oh, yeah... that guy was awesome!" rather than "who?" or "what a jerk!" And maybe that is the ultimate paradise. Being remembered fondly.

I joined this website in the last Century, and my religious beliefs have changed since then. The hypocritical actions of my church (catholic) and others (baptist) alongside those who use religion for their own personal political benefit (GOP, Northern Ireland Unionist, Israel, India) really gets to me, and I've become quite anti religion over the past five years.

That and something an Opus Dei priest said to me when my mother was being buried, after three years of being in an increasing vegetive state have made me come to the conclusion that religion is a money extracting racket that plays on emotions.

BestWestern wrote:

I joined this website in the last Century, and my religious beliefs have changed since then. The hypocritical actions of my church (catholic) and others (baptist) alongside those who use religion for their own personal political benefit (GOP, Northern Ireland Unionist, Israel, India) really gets to me, and I've become quite anti religion over the past five years.

That and something an Opus Dei priest said to me when my mother was being buried, after three years of being in an increasing vegetive state have made me come to the conclusion that religion is a money extracting racket that plays on emotions.

Sorry to hear you had to endure such painful event to see 'the light'...but anyone who puts in the research of scanning the bible (all religious text) as a competing author versus a child being told to study the 'word'. Given those guys then knew next to nothing compared to today's 10 year olds.

BN747

seb146 wrote:

According to my holy book, we all fall short of the grace of God. But, making an effort to live like Christ and be His example here will give God cause to put His arm around me and escort me into paradise saying "well done, my good and faithful servant."

so you are a slave in an everlasting North Korea, where the rules are difficult to interpret and no indication of how you are performing till the final verdict to enter a place that we are told is perfect by a person who leaves children to die in agony in this attempt to make a world.

seb146 wrote:

I can only speak for me. I hate the idea of nothing after I die. That makes this existence worthless. I don't need my actions justified. When my time here comes to an end, I want people to hear my name and think or say "oh, yeah... that guy was awesome!" rather than "who?" or "what a jerk!" And maybe that is the ultimate paradise. Being remembered fondly.

Why would hating something being true mean that it isn’t true? And why would nothing after one does mean having nothing to live for? Wouldn’t that mean it all has to happen in this life, one shot to get it right? If there is nothing after heaven then what’s the point in it?

Fred


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seb146 wrote:

It is comforting for me to know that what I do here will have an impact both here and in my next existence.

Did you per chance ever read R.A.Heinlein's "Job: A comedy of Justice" ?
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job:_A_Comedy_of_Justice

flipdewaf wrote:

seb146 wrote:

According to my holy book, we all fall short of the grace of God. But, making an effort to live like Christ and be His example here will give God cause to put His arm around me and escort me into paradise saying "well done, my good and faithful servant."

so you are a slave in an everlasting North Korea, where the rules are difficult to interpret and no indication of how you are performing till the final verdict to enter a place that we are told is perfect by a person who leaves children to die in agony in this attempt to make a world.

The rules are simple: Treat others how you want to be treated. Be kind. Share when you have and others have none. I am tested on a daily basis. Some days I fail, but I get other chances to prove that was a mistake.

flipdewaf wrote:

seb146 wrote:

I can only speak for me. I hate the idea of nothing after I die. That makes this existence worthless. I don't need my actions justified. When my time here comes to an end, I want people to hear my name and think or say "oh, yeah... that guy was awesome!" rather than "who?" or "what a jerk!" And maybe that is the ultimate paradise. Being remembered fondly.

Why would hating something being true mean that it isn’t true? And why would nothing after one does mean having nothing to live for? Wouldn’t that mean it all has to happen in this life, one shot to get it right? If there is nothing after heaven then what’s the point in it?

In my sect, heaven is forever. There is no "after heaven". It just keeps going. As far apart as east is from west. I don't have a one-size-fits-all answer for what I believe. I can not translate that for other people's lives. I have questions about my faith. You do ask a good question. Perhaps we are all just hanging out until His second coming? We make mistakes and fall short of His grace but He forgives us unconditionally until we are worthy? Matthew 18:22 says we are to forgive each other 70 times 7 times. The point was to forgive unconditionally. Forgive and forget. None of us are perfect. We were created in His image, which means He is also imperfect.

WIederling wrote:

seb146 wrote:

It is comforting for me to know that what I do here will have an impact both here and in my next existence.

Did you per chance ever read R.A.Heinlein's "Job: A comedy of Justice" ?
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job:_A_Comedy_of_Justice

That sounds like a good book. It takes me years to get through any book, though. I don't enjoy reading as much as others.

seb146 wrote:

WIederling wrote:

seb146 wrote:

It is comforting for me to know that what I do here will have an impact both here and in my next existence.

Did you per chance ever read R.A.Heinlein's "Job: A comedy of Justice" ?
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job:_A_Comedy_of_Justice

That sounds like a good book. It takes me years to get through any book, though. I don't enjoy reading as much as others.

Then it is probably not for you. It is a thick book.

What about : Arthur C. Clarke's short: "The Star"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_ ... t_story%29
The Text:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080718084 ... larke.html

you might also look into Larry Niven's "Draco Tavern".
Shorts with philosophic and sometimes religious dissemination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Draco_Tavern

WIederling wrote:

seb146 wrote:

WIederling wrote:

Did you per chance ever read R.A.Heinlein's "Job: A comedy of Justice" ?
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job:_A_Comedy_of_Justice

That sounds like a good book. It takes me years to get through any book, though. I don't enjoy reading as much as others.

Then it is probably not for you. It is a thick book.

What about : Arthur C. Clarke's short: "The Star"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_ ... t_story%29
The Text:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080718084 ... larke.html

you might also look into Larry Niven's "Draco Tavern".
Shorts with philosophic and sometimes religious dissemination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Draco_Tavern

I knew Clarke wrote some short stories. I have some drywall work when I get off here so I will read it after. I had heard of Draco Tavern.

Again, I am only speaking for me, but I sometimes think that our idea of God is another higher life form. There are many science fiction elements in The Bible. It could be a record of our creators. Or it could be a record of settlement on this planet. The Bible has some great life lessons. But I also know it was written by many men who spoke dead languages and edited over the centuries.

That is a very good story by Clarke. There are plenty of things going on in the universe that we have no idea about. I still believe there are life forms out there not based on carbon.

My biggest question is why are some people so absolute and demanding when it comes to faith? I do not believe as the Catholics or Mormons or Shia or Sunni. I don't understand why there is this "us vs. them" in religion.

seb146 wrote:

That is a very good story by Clarke. There are plenty of things going on in the universe that we have no idea about. I still believe there are life forms out there not based on carbon.

Your god putting the torch to another civilisation just for some pretty lights in the sky to announce the birth of its son
should be something hard to take for an intelligent believer.

My biggest question is why are some people so absolute and demanding when it comes to faith? I do not believe as the Catholics or Mormons or Shia or Sunni. I don't understand why there is this "us vs. them" in religion.

Who wants to share his/her god. ( especially dangerous when your dogma says there is only one true god.)
Read Niven's "Grammar Lesson" my son, my father, my boat, my wife, .....

Iloveboeing wrote:

I was raised a Southern Baptist, then I went Pentecostal/Charismatic for awhile, now I'm personally non-denominational, although I attend a Southern Baptist church in rural Missouri.

In the past 6 months, I've become a lot more health-conscious and I've started to notice some things. In the church I attend, the pastor and several other members are overweight and have diabetes. From various articles that I've read, it appears that a large number of Christians in America are overweight and are struggling with related medical issues such as diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease and more.

In 32 years of living, in all of church attendance, I have never once heard a pastor preach on gluttony which, according to the Bible, is a sin. They're all very quick to preach against things such as abortion and gay marriage, but it seems that no one wants to talk about gluttony. It appears to be the most accepted sin and no one wants to do anything about it around here.

I love to eat good food, however I've been learning that in order to be productive citizens, I need to eat healthy and exercise regularly. I'm down net 20 lbs since September, but I've still got a lot of progress to make.

The churches need to address gluttony and they need to strongly encourage healthy living and exercise. I believe that God wants us to be healthy; the churches need to get off the sidelines on this issue and address gluttony.

I think it's a cultural thing, not a denominational thing. I attend an International Baptist Church in Hamburg, Germany, and there's only one or two overweight people. Americans overall have more weight/diabetes issues than other countries.

That said, "...it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” Matthew 15:11 (ESV)

dik909 wrote:

I think it's a cultural thing, not a denominational thing. I attend an International Baptist Church in Hamburg, Germany, and there's only one or two overweight people. Americans overall have more weight/diabetes issues than other countries.

Slightly of topic but there also is a difference in overweight "look".
US, Ireland,, what I've seen overweight people appear as dressed in a self grown fat suit.
Germany chances are overweight is expressed as a beer belly, navel centric concentrated paunch.

Only in very recent years do you see the US style of being fat here.

WIederling wrote:

seb146 wrote:

That is a very good story by Clarke. There are plenty of things going on in the universe that we have no idea about. I still believe there are life forms out there not based on carbon.

Your god putting the torch to another civilisation just for some pretty lights in the sky to announce the birth of its son
should be something hard to take for an intelligent believer.

Everything happens for a reason.

I know the story is fiction, but let's just discuss as if it were fact. I would see this as a heads-up to us. That our own star could do this and we should prepare. Not only our own soul but maybe finding another rock to inhabit. Like any major accident, it gives us a warning to fix things.

WIederling wrote:

My biggest question is why are some people so absolute and demanding when it comes to faith? I do not believe as the Catholics or Mormons or Shia or Sunni. I don't understand why there is this "us vs. them" in religion.

Who wants to share his/her god. ( especially dangerous when your dogma says there is only one true god.)
Read Niven's "Grammar Lesson" my son, my father, my boat, my wife, .....

I don't understand other sects demand that we all follow their teachings. I was taught not to force my faith on other people. I guess a passive-aggressive way to get others to convert. That is the part I don't understand. "Even though we worship the same God, my way of worship is better than yours".

Having churches give advice on dietary habits is like having cows give advice on skateboarding tricks.

MaverickM11 wrote:

Joel Osteen!

Bleached teeth man?

Some of the largest preachers (by girth) I know of are Baptist. But that's a generalization. I know of Baptist preachers whose weight is in proportion to their height. Several ministries/denominations emphasize eating healthy to their flock. And other ministries, when they have a free function for the public and kids, serve the worst "junk" food imaginable without batting an eye.

As to gluttony, my Methodist upbringing was "everything in moderation."

DIRECTFLT wrote:

"everything in moderation."

including moderation itself?

Fred



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