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MIAspotter
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Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:06 pm

A massive country-wide power outage have been affecting Venezuela since thursday last week, there are no confirmations as to when power will be normally restored.

The power outage originated at the main power plant located in the State of Bolivar in the south of the country, many believe is due to lack of investment and maintenance, in spite of claims by the government lead by Maduro that they invested 100.000.000 USD to modernize the infrastructure, but alas, we can imagine what happenned.

Government spokespersons following the usual Cuban/socialist script have accused the US of launching an ¨Electromagnetical attack¨ (I kid you not, that´s what they said¨ and even accused Senator Marco Rubio of sabbotage.

They have managed to restore power to certain cities or areas, but it´s quickly gone as the infrastructure is weak, just this morning an explosion occured in a power station in Caracas.

Cities are in total darkness, I have seen videos on youtube of areas that look like a scene out of The Walking Dead, 18 people have died in hospitals due to power plants not being able to cope, so patients dependant on life support machines have sadly passed.

People are struggling to get water, food and supplies, trying to find ice to help keep the little food they have managed to find, Businesses have opted to give away meat and perishable goods before they rot, the few businesses that operate do so and charge in USD or Euros as there are no electricity or mobile data to make payments (cash is scarce in Venezuela but that´s another issue)

Schools, and business activities are suspended, industries as well, the whole country has literally brought to a standstill.

Communications are scarce, there are no TV or radio save some stations mainly from the government, Mobile phones work erratically, I have seen pictures of people pulling over on the highways where signal reception is manageable.

Airports obviously are not operating as normal, in CCS operations are carried out manually, some airlines have cancelled their flights to-from CCS.

Interim president Juan Guaido will declare a state of emergency today, while Nicolas Maduro hasn´t moved a finger, just his usual fist-waving charades (funny enough in a public appearance last saturday with LED panels and power plants, which he could have sent to a hospital if he had an ounce of humanity)

In a normal country, I imagine in such an event the government will deploy the national guard and army with power plants to help restore power in cities or set up shelters to help the people, but over there they simply don´t care.

Something needs to be done, and it needs to be done NOW to stop this, but the Venezuelan people alone can´t do it, they need help, I am a supporter of an intervention but I know this is a delicate issue with some members here.

Anyways, let´s see how this develops.
Nos vamos de Vueling?
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:39 pm

Thought I would provide a couple of links to backup the summary:

http://news.trust.org/item/20190310192645-05cu4 Contains much of what was discussed in OP

http://news.trust.org/item/20190310171437-jhq11 Discusses Maduro blaming USA for cyberattacks.

I won't link it here but dailymail has some dramatic pictures.
 
slider
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:08 pm

What a goddamn shame this whole fiasco is turning out to be.

What really stinks is that, even if things change tomorrow, the wreckage will last for years in Venezuela. The aftermath of failed
dictatorial socialist policies will cast a long shadow. It should be a cautionary tale.
 
Okie
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:37 pm

Another case of Socialism failing.
You can not unwind 2 decades of Socialism, Corruption and Nepotism in a few days.

When you have the Double Brother-In-Law in charge of the countries electrical system and his best understanding of electricity is that if you turn on a motor and it hums.
The problem must be the motor does not know the words to the song. :roll:
This is where you end up.


Okie
 
NIKV69
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:21 pm

slider wrote:
What a goddamn shame this whole fiasco is turning out to be.

What really stinks is that, even if things change tomorrow, the wreckage will last for years in Venezuela. The aftermath of failed
dictatorial socialist policies will cast a long shadow. It should be a cautionary tale.


Sure is. Venezuela will be better off long term but it will take years to recover.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
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SQ22
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:43 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Thought I would provide a couple of links to backup the summary:

http://news.trust.org/item/20190310192645-05cu4 Contains much of what was discussed in OP

http://news.trust.org/item/20190310171437-jhq11 Discusses Maduro blaming USA for cyberattacks.

I won't link it here but dailymail has some dramatic pictures.


Thank you.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:58 pm

All you need to know really about Capitalism vs Socialism:

Image
 
WIederling
Posts: 9348
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:06 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
All you need to know really about Capitalism vs Socialism:

Image


http://www.nightearth.com/[email protected],1 ... ==&lang=en

so Italy is capitalist, Germany is communist. I knew it all along.

Excessive Light Pollution is a culture thing.
Murphy is an optimist
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:10 pm

But of course. North and South Koreans couldn't be more culturally different!
It is not that they lack pretty much everything in the North, it is that they don't really want all those capitalist things like adequate lighting and what not.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 11873
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:12 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Thought I would provide a couple of links to backup the summary:

http://news.trust.org/item/20190310192645-05cu4 Contains much of what was discussed in OP

http://news.trust.org/item/20190310171437-jhq11 Discusses Maduro blaming USA for cyberattacks.

I won't link it here but dailymail has some dramatic pictures.



Interesting Forbes opinion article that explores the "higher than you would think" possibility of a foreign cyber-attack
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleeta ... 7003da607c

Although it is more likely grid failures, the timing can be make it be worked to Maduro's advantage by claiming it is an attack. This is going to be an information war, and unfortunately the suffering of Venezuela will continue.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
bennett123
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:32 pm

Is it just me.

Apparently the power system crashed as soon as Guadio appeared.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:00 am

Yes, GuadIo "appeared" four days ago...

SMFH
 
MIAspotter
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:36 am

[quote="casinterest"][/quote]

Unlikely at least in Venezuela, in an interview, a former employee stated that a cyber attack was unlikely since the electrical system in Venezuela is analog, he said it would be like trying to hack a refrigerator.

Now there are also claims that the outage was provoked by Maduro himself, following the Cuban revolution script, cut the power and isolate the people for a few days, then restore it so that people concentrate on getting back on their feet, it is also a demoralization tool, no power, no water, no communication, how would you feel?

Allegedly this could be an act in response to Guaido´s return last week (the regime didn´t do anything to him after threatening to arrest him)

This is undoubtely a case of corruption, the regime has claimed to have invested millions of dollars on funding modernization porgrams and building new modern power plants, but all that money has gone into someone else´s pockets, and ever since the state took control of the electrical system, many employees were sacked or left due to political pressure, those remaining don´t have the adequate training to respond to emergencies.

The main power plants in Venezuela are allegedly under military control, so why can´t they prevent a sabbotage or an attack? if you invest tons of money on modernisation, wouldn´t you set aside a considerable amount to set up a proper security network.

To quote a Venezuelan comedian ¨I don´t care if the government think I am stupid, what pisses me off is that they really believe it¨

MIAspotter.
Nos vamos de Vueling?
 
WIederling
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:06 pm

MIAspotter wrote:
The main power plants in Venezuela are allegedly under military control, so why can´t they prevent a sabbotage or an attack? if you invest tons of money on modernisation, wouldn´t you set aside a considerable amount to set up a proper security network.


Look for an attack like the Iranian centrifuge hack.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

Source of that attack is known. ( and "in style" of those sources.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:35 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
All you need to know really about Capitalism vs Socialism

What are those bright lights north of North Korea? The name of the nation escapes me...hmm...makes all our products very cheap...I just can't remember...

Okie wrote:
Another case of Socialism failing.

Is that why European countries are all in the dark? You have to learn to separate the system of government with economic system. I don't think anyone will argue that Haiti is socialist, yet its economy is in shambles. Many Gulf countries are welfare countries, but I have yet to hear about power outages of this magnitude.

The problem with Venezuela is not the socialist nature of its economy; it's how poorly managed it's been. When well trained professionals are replaced with dumb party loyalists, you have a recipe for disaster. It's the same thing that happened in Zimbabwe where the white, efficient farmers had their lands confiscated and given to black farmers who had never planted a seed.

As long as the military is kept happy, Maduro will not be overthrown. The Kim dynasty in NK knew this, which is why during the famine they instituted a military-first policy. Keep the military happy, your place is secured. Fail to please the military and it will either turn on you or remain neutral and allow the opposition to overthrow you.

TL;DR: many capitalist countries are failures just as many socialist countries are success stories. The problem isn't the economic model; it's who manages it.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:52 pm

What you are seeing to the north of North Korea is China after 30 years of market reforms which took its economy to a 180 degree turn away from collectivism and five year plans!
And as a consequence of it hundreds of millions of people escaped poverty and joined the middle class.
But you probably know that already.

The differences in this two photos of the same part of central Shanghai in 1990 and 2010, just 20 years later is illuminating as to what exactly happened to the north of North Korea..


Image
 
Okie
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:30 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
The problem with Venezuela is not the socialist nature of its economy; it's how poorly managed it's been. When well trained professionals are replaced with dumb party loyalists, you have a recipe for disaster.

I am quite aware and have worked with Venezuelan expats.

I have had dealings with PREPA and seen corruption and nepotism in action. Got the "T" shirt.
We called them LVCI's. Had to grade a separate parking lot to park all of them.

Okie
 
tommy1808
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:33 am

P1aneMad wrote:
What you are seeing to the north of North Korea is China after 30 years of market reforms which took its economy to a 180 degree turn away from collectivism and five year plans!
And as a consequence of it hundreds of millions of people escaped poverty and joined the middle class.
But you probably know that already.


You mean just like you know that China still works on 5 year plans and is still a full on collective? They reduced micromanagemwnt of the economy and shifted that into micro managing private life. That is all. Germany is, by constitution, a collectivist republic too, I don't think that hurt as all that much, in fact, looking at income distribution, the majority of people living here has more than the majority of the titular richer US. Heck, in the last 45 years the lower income half of the Greek population has seen more income growth than in the US.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Okie
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:09 pm

It appears Venezuela has another country wide power outage yet again.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/venezuela ... s-sabotage

Maduro the Socialist Dictator of Darkness has declared "Free Blackouts for Everyone"

Okie
 
PPVRA
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:09 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
P1aneMad wrote:
All you need to know really about Capitalism vs Socialism

What are those bright lights north of North Korea? The name of the nation escapes me...hmm...makes all our products very cheap...I just can't remember...

Okie wrote:
Another case of Socialism failing.

Is that why European countries are all in the dark? You have to learn to separate the system of government with economic system. I don't think anyone will argue that Haiti is socialist, yet its economy is in shambles. Many Gulf countries are welfare countries, but I have yet to hear about power outages of this magnitude.

The problem with Venezuela is not the socialist nature of its economy; it's how poorly managed it's been. When well trained professionals are replaced with dumb party loyalists, you have a recipe for disaster. It's the same thing that happened in Zimbabwe where the white, efficient farmers had their lands confiscated and given to black farmers who had never planted a seed.

As long as the military is kept happy, Maduro will not be overthrown. The Kim dynasty in NK knew this, which is why during the famine they instituted a military-first policy. Keep the military happy, your place is secured. Fail to please the military and it will either turn on you or remain neutral and allow the opposition to overthrow you.

TL;DR: many capitalist countries are failures just as many socialist countries are success stories. The problem isn't the economic model; it's who manages it.


China is mostly capitalist. Anyone’s who has been there knows it.

And no, it’s absolutely and undoubtedly the economic model. The problems with communism/socialism are deep rooted and totally inept to basic economic questions. Read, I’m not saying they’re inept managers, it’s that the model flat out doesn’t have answers or means of achieving practical results in basic economic questions. In other words, it’s pure pie in the sky with zero answers for practical economic problems.

If you want to talk social market economy... a largely/mostly capitalist economy with social safety nets, like that found in Germany, then that’s a different discussion altogether.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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c933103
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Re: Venezuela suffers country-wide power outage, (4 days and counting)

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:09 am

tommy1808 wrote:
P1aneMad wrote:
What you are seeing to the north of North Korea is China after 30 years of market reforms which took its economy to a 180 degree turn away from collectivism and five year plans!
And as a consequence of it hundreds of millions of people escaped poverty and joined the middle class.
But you probably know that already.


You mean just like you know that China still works on 5 year plans and is still a full on collective? They reduced micromanagemwnt of the economy and shifted that into micro managing private life. That is all. Germany is, by constitution, a collectivist republic too, I don't think that hurt as all that much, in fact, looking at income distribution, the majority of people living here has more than the majority of the titular richer US. Heck, in the last 45 years the lower income half of the Greek population has seen more income growth than in the US.

Best regards
Thomas

China now have a higher Gini coefficient than America.
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