1836Sam
Posts: 471
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:43 pm

SteelChair wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
I think the Attorney General of the United States is waiting because he is attempting to decide if he is just going to release it, or if he is going to use it as evidence when he refers charges against those who conspired to steal Presidential election.

If I were him, I would hold it for several months, thereby helping the democrats continue to implode chasing a paper tiger

If only Jeff Sessions had never recused himself, this whole silly episode could have been avoided. As it is, the House and the 2020 election have been handed to the Republicans.


Hey there's a theory, and what a humdinger! You have added a "D" to my multiple choice question. Thanks SteelChair!

Anyone else want to choose "D"?

Do you believe that the Mueller Report, once released, will:

A) Completely vindicate the Prez of the "weird Russia stuff" that is in the public domain by explaining just what was going on (i.e., "complete and total exoneration," but this time for realsies, although it'd be weird that Barr excluded this . . . I'd say that'd be making a materially false statement!)

B) Reveal itself to be a hoax, i.e., "Dear Congress, SOHRRY!" (I guess that sorta goes with (A) . . . I know you have implied that before, MAGOG)

C) Will reveal not yet public information of other "weird Russia stuff" that doesn't meet the prosecutorial standard for conspiracy, but it doesn't matter because the standard in your opinion is it's only a problem if it's prosecuted (I've been calling this the "Jussie Standard")

D) Mueller wrote a report implicating his investigation as a complete hoax, the AG is sitting on it and will release at the most politically opportune moment


Wait, that's kind of (B)!

Image


There was no obstruction. (Hurts doesnt it?l

Thr FISA warrant was based upon the (discredited) Steele dossier, which was a piece of opposition research funded by the Clinoin campaign. The Steele dossier was then promulgated as an actual intelligence product by Brennan and McCain.


SteelChair (SteeleChair . . . hahahahaha . . . a joke!), you sound like a smart guy. Really on top of things. Thanks for help stimulating a discussion!

But who said anything about obstruction?

And why would I or any American be hurt if our President was not a criminal? I mean, we might be a little hurt if he was "almost a criminal"--I'm sure you'd agree too.

But you may be right . . . this may be a grand conspiracy of the highest levels, involving Secretary Clinton and a bunch of Deep Staters. In fact I've heard this theory before, so you're not alone!

I guess where I'm puzzled is how does that explain everything done by the Prez in public . . . you know, what FreequentFlierFriend and I are calling the "weird Russia stuff"? Do you think the Deep Staters were practicing like Jedi mind control?

If so, I find that scary!
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1173
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:58 pm

"Who said anything about obstruction?" Why, thats next on the agenda!

You would obviously be hurt if you were hoping for a different outcome. There is no there there. Its a diversion. And everyone who pushed the narrative knew there was no collusion, and they tried to set traps for obstruction and perjury. Have you read any of Dershowitz's writings? Don't you feel bad about how General Flynn jas been treated?
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:02 pm

SteelChair wrote:
"Who said anything about obstruction?" Why, thats next on the agenda!

You would obviously be hurt if you were hoping for a different outcome. There is no there there. Its a diversion. And everyone who pushed the narrative knew there was no collusion, and they tried to set traps for obstruction and perjury. Have you read any of Dershowitz's writings? Don't you feel bad about how General Flynn jas been treated?


Steel, remember we’re amongst friends, and you sound rather agitated.

No I haven’t read Dershowitz’s writings ... but this is a discussion! Feel free to share. Just remember to always give us your take!
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:34 pm

Image

Mueller Report is 400 pages, excluding appendices and indices.

AG Barr to release redacted version by mid-April, if not sooner.

I guess we'll see soon whether answer (D) (for those who don't remember, SteelChair's "Mueller indicts himself" theory) is true!
 
Magog
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:55 pm

Barr's most recent letter to Congress dispels even more fear mongering from the past few days.

1) He is releasing the report;
2) There are no plans for a White House privilege review; and
3) Mueller is personally helping to prepare the report for public consumption.
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:00 pm

Magog wrote:
Barr's most recent letter to Congress dispels even more fear mongering from the past few days.

1) He is releasing the report;
2) There are no plans for a White House privilege review; and
3) Mueller is personally helping to prepare the report for public consumption.


MAGOG, once again, who said otherwise? I don’t think you’ve been following the discussion!

Have you ever heard the phrase “tilting at windmills”? Because that’s what comes to mind.

Gee golly!
 
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alberchico
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:35 pm

If Barr is willing to release the report it means it dosen't contain anything damming at all. Wow this is not a good week for Democrats.....
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:53 pm

alberchico wrote:
If Barr is willing to release the report it means it dosen't contain anything damming at all. Wow this is not a good week for Democrats.....


Great insight (on the surface, at least) alberchico, yet it implies you believe he would’ve sat on the report otherwise? That’s kind of scary!
 
afcjets
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:01 am

1836Sam wrote:

I’m from the South



We know you now live in Houston Sammy Jo, do you miss Denver?
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:27 am

afcjets wrote:
1836Sam wrote:

I’m from the South



We know you now live in Houston Sammy Jo, do you miss Denver?


Silly afc, I’ve been to Denver once or twice, hasn’t everyone?
 
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seb146
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:59 am

Is this a time to point out how Barr was appointed because he is a "yes man" and Sessions was fired because he said "no" to the current occupant of the White House?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/trump-a ... crime.html
https://www.weeklystandard.com/the-edit ... f-sessions

Also, I wonder how redacted the Mueller report will be? Some names, obviously, have to be redacted. I wonder if all 300+ pages will be?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Magog
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:07 am

seb146 wrote:
I wonder if all 300+ pages will be [redacted]?

Not a chance.
 
BN747
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:42 am

seb146 wrote:
Is this a time to point out how Barr was appointed because he is a "yes man" and Sessions was fired because he said "no" to the current occupant of the White House?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/trump-a ... crime.html
https://www.weeklystandard.com/the-edit ... f-sessions

Also, I wonder how redacted the Mueller report will be? Some names, obviously, have to be redacted. I wonder if all 300+ pages will be?


Barr's letter today points to heavy redaction.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Magog
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:54 am

BN747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Is this a time to point out how Barr was appointed because he is a "yes man" and Sessions was fired because he said "no" to the current occupant of the White House?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/trump-a ... crime.html
https://www.weeklystandard.com/the-edit ... f-sessions

Also, I wonder how redacted the Mueller report will be? Some names, obviously, have to be redacted. I wonder if all 300+ pages will be?


Barr's letter today points to heavy redaction.

BN747

His criteria seemed eminently reasonable. Which one do you disagree with?
 
BN747
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:01 am

Magog wrote:
BN747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Is this a time to point out how Barr was appointed because he is a "yes man" and Sessions was fired because he said "no" to the current occupant of the White House?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/trump-a ... crime.html
https://www.weeklystandard.com/the-edit ... f-sessions

Also, I wonder how redacted the Mueller report will be? Some names, obviously, have to be redacted. I wonder if all 300+ pages will be?


Barr's letter today points to heavy redaction.

BN747

His criteria seemed eminently reasonable. Which one do you disagree with?


The criteria he originally committed to..not these daily retooling and adjustments, his credibility was shot when solicited the Justice Dept for the job last June by writing that lengthy letter of 'his opinion' of what a president can be charged with.

But his current conduct is taking the shape of minimal exposure to the public, whom he's not protecting. We already know who he's protecting.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:01 am

Magog wrote:
BN747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Is this a time to point out how Barr was appointed because he is a "yes man" and Sessions was fired because he said "no" to the current occupant of the White House?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/trump-a ... crime.html
https://www.weeklystandard.com/the-edit ... f-sessions

Also, I wonder how redacted the Mueller report will be? Some names, obviously, have to be redacted. I wonder if all 300+ pages will be?


Barr's letter today points to heavy redaction.

BN747

His criteria seemed eminently reasonable. Which one do you disagree with?


Is that MAGOG asking for a discussion? Very uncharacteristic, in my humble experience.
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:05 am

Magog wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I wonder if all 300+ pages will be [redacted]?

Not a chance.


PHEW MAGOG is back!!!!

So friend, once the largely unredacted report comes out ...

A

B

C

Or

D?
 
BN747
Posts: 6811
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:09 am

BN747 wrote:
Magog wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Barr's letter today points to heavy redaction.

BN747

His criteria seemed eminently reasonable. Which one do you disagree with?


The criteria he originally committed to..not these daily retooling and adjustments, his credibility was shot when solicited the Justice Dept for the job last June by writing that lengthy letter of 'his opinion' of what a president can be charged with.

But his current conduct is taking the shape of minimal exposure to the public, whom he's not protecting. We already know who he's protecting.

BN747


Chairman Nadler says, stick to the original deadline Apr 2nd. not Mid April and he's demanding 'no redactions'...so clearly, Barr is trying to shape opinion.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Magog
Posts: 850
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:04 am

BN747 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Magog wrote:
His criteria seemed eminently reasonable. Which one do you disagree with?


The criteria he originally committed to..not these daily retooling and adjustments, his credibility was shot when solicited the Justice Dept for the job last June by writing that lengthy letter of 'his opinion' of what a president can be charged with.

But his current conduct is taking the shape of minimal exposure to the public, whom he's not protecting. We already know who he's protecting.

BN747


Chairman Nadler says, stick to the original deadline Apr 2nd. not Mid April and he's demanding 'no redactions'...so clearly, Barr is trying to shape opinion.

BN747

None of his redaction criteria appears to have anything to do with “shaping opinion.” White House privilege is not one of the criteria, for example. Is there one in particular that you disagree with?

The four criteria can be found here:
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.c ... 203_29.pdf
 
alfa164
Posts: 3026
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:05 am

SteelChair wrote:
Thr FISA warrant was based upon the (discredited) Steele dossier, which was a piece of opposition research funded by the Clinoin campaign. The Steele dossier was then promulgated as an actual intelligence product by Brennan and McCain.


Let's not rewrite history here:
1) The FISA warrant was issued before there was any knowledge of the Steele dossier; and
2) There has been no evidence that the dossier has been discredited. Perhaps you have something the FBI doesn't?

:roll:

SteelChair wrote:
Don't you feel bad about how General Flynn jas been treated?


Flynn pled guilty to a felony count of "willfully and knowingly" making "false, fictitious and fraudulent statements" to the FBI. How can you whine about "how he was treated" when he admitted to the crime?

BN747 wrote:
trump:'The Russians would have preferred Hillary far more than me, you know that!" vs reporter at Helsinki Summit 2018 - Mr. Putin did you prefer Mr. trump over Mrs. Clinton in the election and did you instruct your officials to assist in that? Putin:" (pause) ... yes, yes I did prefer Mr. trump because we could work together blah, blah, blah....who do you believe?
Who is the LIAR?


I think David Frum's (a reputable conservative, for sure - but not a Trumpuppet) assessment may be spot-on, "Good news, America. Russia helped install your president. But although he owes his job in large part to that help, the president did not conspire or collude with his helpers. He was the beneficiary of a foreign intelligence operation, but not an active participant in that operation. He received the stolen goods, but he did not conspire with the thieves in advance."

In some quarters, that might lead some to call Trump their "useful idiot"...

;)
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:28 pm

Magog wrote:
BN747 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

The criteria he originally committed to..not these daily retooling and adjustments, his credibility was shot when solicited the Justice Dept for the job last June by writing that lengthy letter of 'his opinion' of what a president can be charged with.

But his current conduct is taking the shape of minimal exposure to the public, whom he's not protecting. We already know who he's protecting.

BN747


Chairman Nadler says, stick to the original deadline Apr 2nd. not Mid April and he's demanding 'no redactions'...so clearly, Barr is trying to shape opinion.

BN747

None of his redaction criteria appears to have anything to do with “shaping opinion.” White House privilege is not one of the criteria, for example. Is there one in particular that you disagree with?

The four criteria can be found here:
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.c ... 203_29.pdf


MAGOG!

You are a strange “dude”! (But still a friend, of course.)

My thought ....

We’ve been trying to have a conversation for awhile (at least I have ... this is a discussion forum after all ... who knew!)

I’m sure ... steadfast exemplar that you are ... you must have passed over all of those posts in which you were directly asked questions! You left me and all of your other friends hanging, I think!

I’ve asked myself, why would MAGOG do that? You’ve revealed yourself to this entire discussion forum to be a really smart guy, as is evidenced here every day, certainly not a demogogue. (Did I spell that right or is it demagog? I mean that’s kind of funny!)

Did he not like the questions?

Was he unable to answer? (I mean, they’re just letters after all!)

Maybe he implicitly answered?
.
I dunno.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20748
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:53 pm

Magog wrote:
BN747 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

The criteria he originally committed to..not these daily retooling and adjustments, his credibility was shot when solicited the Justice Dept for the job last June by writing that lengthy letter of 'his opinion' of what a president can be charged with.

But his current conduct is taking the shape of minimal exposure to the public, whom he's not protecting. We already know who he's protecting.

BN747


Chairman Nadler says, stick to the original deadline Apr 2nd. not Mid April and he's demanding 'no redactions'...so clearly, Barr is trying to shape opinion.

BN747

None of his redaction criteria appears to have anything to do with “shaping opinion.” White House privilege is not one of the criteria, for example. Is there one in particular that you disagree with?

The four criteria can be found here:
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.c ... 203_29.pdf


During his confirmation hearings, Barr was asked if a sitting president should be indicted and his response was “You know I haven’t read those opinions in a long time, but I see no reason to change them.”

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... president/

And, let's not forget that, during Hillary's endless investigation into finding nothing but Republicans had to find something, There was evidence that chairman Trey Gowdy went so far as to redact names himself to make Hillary look bad.

https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/r ... =135231633

What makes you think this "yes man" Barr will not do the same thing? All I keep hearing from the right is "we are honest and above reproach and have morals and ethics" but every dang time, the exact opposite happens! WHEN Mueller's report finally comes out and it is heavily redacted, instead of saying "WTH??? We want to see important passages!!!!" the right will say "meh.... security... whatever... nothing to see here... total exoneration...."

EDIT:

I would not be surprised at all if the page or paragraph is redacted that the right keeps pointing to insisting there was total exoneration. The line that starts "[T]he..." that paragraph or even page will be redacted, I would bet.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Magog
Posts: 850
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:16 pm

seb146 wrote:

EDIT:

I would not be surprised at all if the page or paragraph is redacted that the right keeps pointing to insisting there was total exoneration. The line that starts "[T]he..." that paragraph or even page will be redacted, I would bet.

I don’t see how that’s possible. We know the criteria for redaction, and conclusory statements and/or paragraphs don’t really fit into one of the categories.
 
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seb146
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:39 pm

Magog wrote:
seb146 wrote:

EDIT:

I would not be surprised at all if the page or paragraph is redacted that the right keeps pointing to insisting there was total exoneration. The line that starts "[T]he..." that paragraph or even page will be redacted, I would bet.

I don’t see how that’s possible. We know the criteria for redaction, and conclusory statements and/or paragraphs don’t really fit into one of the categories.


I am not holding my breath......
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BN747
Posts: 6811
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:53 pm

Magog wrote:
BN747 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

The criteria he originally committed to..not these daily retooling and adjustments, his credibility was shot when solicited the Justice Dept for the job last June by writing that lengthy letter of 'his opinion' of what a president can be charged with.

But his current conduct is taking the shape of minimal exposure to the public, whom he's not protecting. We already know who he's protecting.

BN747


Chairman Nadler says, stick to the original deadline Apr 2nd. not Mid April and he's demanding 'no redactions'...so clearly, Barr is trying to shape opinion.

BN747

None of his redaction criteria appears to have anything to do with “shaping opinion.” White House privilege is not one of the criteria, for example. Is there one in particular that you disagree with?

The four criteria can be found here:
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.c ... 203_29.pdf


Given that letter is from Barr...

..therein lies the problem. Barr has shown he can pull a Ken Starr in a heartbeat, like changing runways mid-takeoff.
He's crafty enough to wiggle out of any of the listed criteria.

Having written 'two' letters now regarding his take on the report is very non-assuring given his 'cover up' nature.

It would have been best had he released yesterday's letter first and then just STFU.
And even then what he wrote is wrong, apparently there is no precedent for keeping Grand Jury info from Congress.

We are undermining our on rule of law by keeping so much from Congress, Barr stunk by voicing his opinion on the matter so publicly a year ago - that expressed opinion led him to be selected as trump AG (to protect trump...NOT America). And then does exactly that with his half-assed select choice of Mueller's words - not one complete Mueller sentence.

The entire Mueller Report should be handed to Congress....period!
trump's tax returns could be in there, how would disclosing that hurt anyone? Other than proving trump is a (we already know) Liar.
Barr would certainly block that - and more.

Barr has already flown past the point of no return on credibility, I personally cannot see giving him any more chances of trust - zero!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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zkojq
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:33 pm

Image

What happened to transparency?
First to fly the 787-9
 
BN747
Posts: 6811
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:47 pm

zkojq wrote:
Image


Right on man, I can't figure out people who blindly extend all this 'trust' in sources proven demonstrably to deceive, omit and a sudden change of direction.
That type of judgement would destroy any private enterprise in no time flat! - government? Where the public trust is so broad...man a completely different story.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
BN747
Posts: 6811
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:59 pm

I'm getting the eerie feeling that this (Barr phrasing) "the special counsel is working together..." with the redactions, is not going as smoothly as Barr attempts to portray.

I mean Barr has already stated that 'he wants to redact information that woulkd prove embarrassing to parties'...that's unacceptable!
That's up to Congress...not Barr.

What happens when a point of contention between the two arises? Who decides? Barr? Mueller? The Courts?
F--k that! Release the Report!

Only a seat under oath in front of Congress will dispense with suspicion of who is jockeying for a determined outcome - in favor of______ OR truth (aka the American people).

BN747
Last edited by BN747 on Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:07 pm

Between us girls, I’m not sure why people are worried about the report and level of redactions. The whole country has seen the “weird Russia stuff” for itself. Regardless of what the report says, I’m not sure the “Almost Criminal” Prez can recover. There doesn’t seem to be an upside for the report being released, whatever it says.

BUT ... that’s just me, and I know my friends may disagree.

P.S. I vote (A). It’s the only logical outcome.
 
afcjets
Posts: 2935
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:19 pm

alfa164 wrote:

Let's not rewrite history here:
1) The FISA warrant was issued before there was any knowledge of the Steele dossier; and
2) There has been no evidence that the dossier has been discredited. Perhaps you have something the FBI doesn't?

:roll:


The same administration that issued the FISA warrant before the Stelle dossier was the same administration that drafted Hillary's exoneration letter before investigating her, which is totally relevant in that it shows high stakes political investigations are premeditated with a desired outcome in mind. The Stelle dossier was merely used to justify the warrant, an "insurance policy" of sorts.

The SC has officially disprooven the Steele report.
 
alfa164
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:50 pm

afcjets wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

Let's not rewrite history here:
1) The FISA warrant was issued before there was any knowledge of the Steele dossier; and
2) There has been no evidence that the dossier has been discredited. Perhaps you have something the FBI doesn't?

:roll:


The same administration that issued the FISA warrant before the Stelle dossier was the same administration that drafted Hillary's exoneration letter before investigating her, which is totally relevant in that it shows high stakes political investigations are premeditated with a desired outcome in mind. The Stelle dossier was merely used to justify the warrant, an "insurance policy" of sorts. The SC has officially disprooven the Steele report.


An "administration" does not issue warrants; independent law enforcement agencies request them, and a FISA Court - after hearing the evidence to determine whether the warrant is justified - issues the warrant(s). There is a burden of evidence that must be met. You can't just claim that these warrants are issued on the whims of some "deep state" administration... unless, of course, the hat you are wearing is made of tin foil...

:roll:

afcjets wrote:
The same administration that issued the FISA warrant before the Stelle dossier ....


afcjets wrote:
The Stelle dossier was merely used to justify the warrant, an "insurance policy" of sorts. .


Huh? You do realize you are contradicting yourself here, don't you? The Court issued the warrant before there was even a whiff of knowledge about the Steele dossier; it could hardly be used to "justify the warrant".

afcjets wrote:
The SC has officially disprooven the Steele report.
.

The "SC"? South Carolina? Social Club? Segregation Committee? That one would be popular in far-right, conspiracy-theory circles...

Do you have any evidence that anyone credible - the elusive "SC" or anyone else - has "officially disprooven (sic) the Steele report"? Don't just say it over and over; cite some facts...present some evidence... share your knowledge. ..please.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
1836Sam
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:25 pm

Today being Sunday, I think it’s a good time for all of us to #BeBest.

(And also answer basic questions of course ... even 2 year olds can do that!)
 
afcjets
Posts: 2935
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:57 pm

alfa164 wrote:
An "administration" does not issue warrants; independent law enforcement agencies request them, and a FISA Court - after hearing the evidence to determine whether the warrant is justified - issues the warrant(s). There is a burden of evidence that must be met. You can't just claim that these warrants are issued on the whims of some "deep state" administration... unless, of course, the hat you are wearing is made of tin foil...

:roll:

We can disagree whether or not the previous administration politicized and weaponized the DOJ, etc. I wouldn’t bring up tin foil hats when you actually believed the President colluded with Russia and Putin to beat America’s sweetheart.



afcjets wrote:
The same administration that issued the FISA warrant before the Stelle dossier ....


afcjets wrote:
The Stelle dossier was merely used to justify the warrant, an "insurance policy" of sorts. .


alfa164 wrote:
Huh? You do realize you are contradicting yourself here, don't you? The Court issued the warrant before there was even a whiff of knowledge about the Steele dossier; it could hardly be used to "justify the warrant".


“The October testimony from senior FBI lawyer Sally Moyer to House investigators appers to underscore how critical the dossier -- funded by the Democratic Party and Clinton campaign -- was in obtaining the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant, and appears to conflict with Democratic assertions that the dossier played a limited role in the process.“

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/invest ... -testimony

Please note the source, Fox News. Not CNN, not NBC or some other entertainment network that gave two years of nonstop fake news about Russian collusion for ratings, but an actual news organization (the most watched in the US) and Catherine Herridge is a real journalist, not a Democrat disguised as one.



afcjets wrote:
The SC has officially disprooven the Steele report.
.

alfa164 wrote:
The "SC"? South Carolina? Social Club? Segregation Committee? That one would be popular in far-right, conspiracy-theory circles...

Do you have any evidence that anyone credible - the elusive "SC" or anyone else - has "officially disprooven (sic) the Steele report"? Don't just say it over and over; cite some facts...present some evidence... share your knowledge. ..please.


Special Counsel.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:15 pm

Probably this outrage of the Mueller Report, AG Barr's take on it, the battles over its release will likely simmer to the back burner and attention paid to the latest outrage of Pres. Trump this week, likely over trying to 'close the border' with Mexico to keep out those seeking asylum in the USA.

The possibility of direct involvement of the Russian government agencies in our elections by support of Trump and against Hillary Clinton had to be investigated. The evidence was circumstantial, not of the Constitutional standard needed to seek criminal indictments against Trump himself, close family members and associates in his campaign. Indeed Hillary Clinton herself may have lost due to her own serious flaws from the e-mail sandal, calling Trump supporters 'Deplorables', a terrible campaign as well as years of Democrats pushing trade and enviromental laws that destroyed millions of good paying middle class factory and other jobs to other countries.
Meanwhile while many including me were initially angry over what the Muller SC investigation didn't get to what many of us wanted, we do accept the basic results and hope for clarification of it over the next several weeks.
 
alfa164
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:48 pm

afcjets wrote:
“The October testimony from senior FBI lawyer Sally Moyer to House investigators appers to underscore how critical the dossier -- funded by the Democratic Party and Clinton campaign -- was in obtaining the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant, and appears to conflict with Democratic assertions that the dossier played a limited role in the process.“
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/invest ... -testimony


:rotfl: Yet even you have admitted the FISA warrant was signed before there was any knowledge of the Steele dossier - which makes you smarter than what Faux News when it says "appers (sic) to underscore how critical the dossier... was in obtaining the... warrant."

Obviously, your "actual news organization" didn't get this right - I am shocked! Perhaps your "real journalist, Ms. Herridge, should have checked with her colleague Chris Wallace, who set the record straight for her on Friday: "Reacting to conservative commentators and opinion hosts pushing for an investigation of the investigators following the completion of the Mueller report, Fox News anchor Chris Wallace burst Fox viewers’ bubble Friday, informing them that the Russia investigation did not begin with the infamous Steele dossier." Please note the source, Fox News!


I am shocked you missed that hour on your favorite network. I am not shocked, however, that the Trumplemmings (and, apparently, Trump himself) fawn over the rest of their propaganda... every dubious word.


afcjets wrote:
The SC has officially disprooven the Steele report.
.

So far, the Special Counsel hasn't said anything is disproven. Barr's summation stated, "The Special Counsel's investigation determined that there were two main Russian efforts to influence the 2016 election. The first involved attempts by a Russian organization, the Internet Research Agency (IRA), to conduct disinformation and social media operations in the United States designed to sow social discord, eventually with the aim of interfering with the election. As noted above, the Special Counsel did not find that any U.S. person or Trump campaign official or associate conspired or knowingly coordinated with the IRA in its efforts, although the Special Counsel brought criminal charges against a number of Russian nationals and entities in connection with these activities."

It further refined that definition with Footnote 1: [i]"In assessing potential conspiracy charges, the Special Counsel also considered whether members of the Trump campaign “coordinated” with Russian election interference activities. The Special Counsel defined “coordination” as an “agreement—tacit or express—between the Trump Campaign and the Russian government on election interference.”[/i]

Note the lack of coordination not found was between the Trump Campaign and solely the Russian Government - leaving open the possibility of some interesting ties with other Russian institutions. We will have to wait to see if any of those ties exist, but it is certainly premature to say the dossier has been totally discredited. The Steele dossier - based on published reports - covered a lot of areas regarding Trump, Russia, and the unnatural relationship between them. Perhaps you should take a break from Faux News and check some facts... for a change...

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-dossier-retrospective
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afcjets
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:54 pm

alfa164 wrote:
:rotfl: Yet even you have admitted the FISA warrant was signed before there was any knowledge of the Steele dossier - which makes you smarter than what Faux News when it says "appers (sic) to underscore how critical the dossier... was in obtaining the... warrant."

Obviously, your "actual news organization" didn't get this right - I am shocked! Perhaps your "real journalist, Ms. Herridge, should have checked with her colleague Chris Wallace, who set the record straight for her on Friday: "Reacting to conservative commentators and opinion hosts pushing for an investigation of the investigators following the completion of the Mueller report, Fox News anchor Chris Wallace burst Fox viewers’ bubble Friday, informing them that the Russia investigation did not begin with the infamous Steele dossier." Please note the source, Fox News!


I am shocked you missed that hour on your favorite network. I am not shocked, however, that the Trumplemmings (and, apparently, Trump himself) fawn over the rest of their propaganda... every dubious word.


I am not shocked you responded with a straw man argument.

alfa164 wrote:
So far, the Special Counsel hasn't said anything is disproven"

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-dossier-retrospective


Hillary bought and paid for it and it involves Russian hookers, water sports, Trump and the Obama suite, so I won’t be wasting time reading an analysis of it, but feel free to cherry pick quotes and I might check back.
 
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seb146
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:28 pm

I saw a link earlier on social media that Jeanine Pierro will demand punishment for critics and those involved with this report. I wish I could find that link. She has every right to say that but knowing the occupant of the White House does whatever Fox tells him, how is this America?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
afcjets
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:40 pm

seb146 wrote:
I saw a link earlier on social media that Jeanine Pierro will demand punishment for critics and those involved with this report. I wish I could find that link. She has every right to say that but knowing the occupant of the White House does whatever Fox tells him, how is this America?


Here it is

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KQvKMhFxQwY
 
alfa164
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:41 pm

afcjets wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
:rotfl: Yet even you have admitted the FISA warrant was signed before there was any knowledge of the Steele dossier - which makes you smarter than what Faux News when it says "appers (sic) to underscore how critical the dossier... was in obtaining the... warrant."

Obviously, your "actual news organization" didn't get this right - I am shocked! Perhaps your "real journalist, Ms. Herridge, should have checked with her colleague Chris Wallace, who set the record straight for her on Friday: "Reacting to conservative commentators and opinion hosts pushing for an investigation of the investigators following the completion of the Mueller report, Fox News anchor Chris Wallace burst Fox viewers’ bubble Friday, informing them that the Russia investigation did not begin with the infamous Steele dossier.". Please note the source, Fox News!


I am shocked you missed that hour on your favorite network. I am not shocked, however, that the Trumplemmings (and, apparently, Trump himself) fawn over the rest of their propaganda... every dubious word.


I am not shocked you responded with a straw man argument.



Do you even know what a straw man argument is? I quoted you; then compared your statement to the facts. I guess that makes you the "straw man"...


afcjets wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
So far, the Special Counsel hasn't said anything is disproven"

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-dossier-retrospective


Hillary bought and paid for it and it involves Russian hookers, water sports, Trump and the Obama suite, so I won’t be wasting time reading an analysis of it, but feel free to cherry pick quotes and I might check back.


That isn't quite factual, either. Fusion GPS, an investigative firm, was initially hired by a Conservative website, the Washington Free Beacon, to find opposition research on Trump. A few months later, an DNC and Clinton campaign attorney hired Fusion GPS to do opposition research for that campaign (there has never been any evidence that Clinton herself even know of the organization - but I am sure that is a fine point that will be lost on the Trumppuppets) and, until Trump won the nomination, Fusion GPS - who had hired Steele - was being paid by both organizations. And it involves a lot more than "Russian hookers, water sports, Trump and the Obama suite" (whatever that is); it involves facts that have been proven by the documents released by Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s office in connection with the criminal cases brought against Paul Manafort, the 12 Russian intelligence officers, the Internet Research Agency trolling operation and associated entities, Michael Cohen, Michael Flynn and George Papadopoulos.

Nevertheless, I understand you not wanting to read the lawfare analysis; a few facts might totally destroy the non-critical dogma that passes for "thinking" among Trumppuppets.

And that is no "straw man argument", either

;)
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seb146
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:52 pm

afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I saw a link earlier on social media that Jeanine Pierro will demand punishment for critics and those involved with this report. I wish I could find that link. She has every right to say that but knowing the occupant of the White House does whatever Fox tells him, how is this America?


Here it is

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KQvKMhFxQwY


Thank you.

If she wants to continue to parrot "no collusion" when that was not said, that is her opinion. But, to call for the opposition to be silenced, we should all be outraged.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
alfa164
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:49 pm

seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I saw a link earlier on social media that Jeanine Pierro will demand punishment for critics and those involved with this report. I wish I could find that link. She has every right to say that but knowing the occupant of the White House does whatever Fox tells him, how is this America?

Here it is
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KQvKMhFxQwY


Thank you. If she wants to continue to parrot "no collusion" when that was not said, that is her opinion. But, to call for the opposition to be silenced, we should all be outraged.


It is all the fault of the independent press; they don't believe in "alternative facts".

Shame on them! ;)
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seb146
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:20 am

How does Mueller's report compare to Starr's report? That is: how long did We The People have to wait to read Starr's full and lengthy report on Monica's stained dress?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
afcjets
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:51 am

alfa164 wrote:
Do you even know what a straw man argument is? I quoted you; then compared your statement to the facts. I guess that makes you the "straw man"...

You quoted and then compared my statement to another fact, which is exactly what a straw man argument is. I never said it began with the Steele report, I said it was used to justify it. You and your ilk can continue to pretend not to know the difference.



alfa164 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

Hillary bought and paid for it and it involves Russian hookers, water sports, Trump and the Obama suite, so I won’t be wasting time reading an analysis of it, but feel free to cherry pick quotes and I might check back.


That isn't quite factual, either. Fusion GPS, an investigative firm, was initially hired by a Conservative website, the Washington Free Beacon, to find opposition research on Trump. A few months later, an DNC and Clinton campaign attorney hired Fusion GPS to do opposition research for that campaign (there has never been any evidence that Clinton herself even know of the organization - but I am sure that is a fine point that will be lost on the Trumppuppets) and, until Trump won the nomination, Fusion GPS - who had hired Steele - was being paid by both organizations. And it involves a lot more than "Russian hookers, water sports, Trump and the Obama suite" (whatever that is); it involves facts that have been proven by the documents released by Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s office in connection with the criminal cases brought against Paul Manafort, the 12 Russian intelligence officers, the Internet Research Agency trolling operation and associated entities, Michael Cohen, Michael Flynn and George Papadopoulos.

Nevertheless, I understand you not wanting to read the lawfare analysis; a few facts might totally destroy the non-critical dogma that passes for "thinking" among Trumppuppets.

And that is no "straw man argument", either

;)


It is no surprise many establishment Republicans despise Trump too. The fact remains that the HRC campaign bought and paid for the Steele report via Fusion GPS and was the only viable candidate running against him in the general election, so the buyer who had the most to gain. We can disagree whether or not Hillary knew about it, perhaps I am giving her more credit than you.

Do you really not know what the Obama suite is in the context of the Trump and Russian hooker fantasy? The funniest part of it was the fake report said it took place in the hotel bed Barrack and Michelle Obama slept in on their trip to Russia, as if that’s the only reason Trump hired the prostitutes, or at least was the icing on the cake.
 
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seb146
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:31 am

afcjets wrote:
It is no surprise many establishment Republicans despise Trump too.


Then nominate someone else. Please. For the sake of the republic, nominate someone else!

afcjets wrote:
The fact remains that the HRC campaign bought and paid for the Steele report via Fusion GPS and was the only viable candidate running against him in the general election, so the buyer who had the most to gain. We can disagree whether or not Hillary knew about it, perhaps I am giving her more credit than you.

Do you really not know what the Obama suite is in the context of the Trump and Russian hooker fantasy? The funniest part of it was the fake report said it took place in the hotel bed Barrack and Michelle Obama slept in on their trip to Russia, as if that’s the only reason Trump hired the prostitutes, or at least was the icing on the cake.


We already knew that Russia was interfering in our elections. We knew that the current occupant of the White House had (has?) business ties to Russia. How deep do those ties go? How many in that family have deep ties to Russia? How much of a hold does Russia have over team MAGA? Obviously we will never know with Jared and Ivanka or Eric and Junior. Shouldn't We The People know how solvent our leader is? Who s/he is financially obligated to? This is why I think we should see his tax returns. And the full Mueller report, only redacting names of covert government operatives, not people who's last name starts with a "T".

Nobody gives a damn about prostitution. It is alleged that there was a minor involved. Be that as it may, I would much rather know how much Russia is controlling him. What Russia has on him that they are manipulating him and, by extension, a certain per cent of Republican voters. They will all just scream that it is fake news anyway, so we will know to ignore them, but still.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
alfa164
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:11 am

seb146 wrote:
How does Mueller's report compare to Starr's report? That is: how long did We The People have to wait to read Starr's full and lengthy report on Monica's stained dress?


It was sent to the House on 9 September, 1998, and released to the public two days later.


afcjets wrote:
You quoted and then compared my statement to another fact, which is exactly what a straw man argument is. I never said it began with the Steele report, I said it was used to justify it. You and your ilk can continue to pretend not to know the difference.


What a surprise! Not quite right - again. I didn't compare your statement to "another fact"; I compared your statement to another of your statements, which clearly wasn't factual, and which contradicted each other. To wit:

afcjets wrote:
The same administration that issued the FISA warrant before the Stelle dossier ....


afcjets wrote:
The Stelle dossier was merely used to justify the warrant, an "insurance policy" of sorts. .


That is not a "straw man argument"; that is an exposure of a lie.

To claim that the Steele report "was used to justify" the warrant... is patently false. EVIDENCE was used to justify the warrant. EVIDENCE was presented to the FISA Court. EVIDENCE - sufficient to show the Court that there is a probability a crime has been committed - is required before the Court will issue a warrant.

Perhaps you "and your ilk" should spend less time watching the political hacks on Faux News - and parroting their claims - and more time evaluating what you write. But I don't expect that now. There is a reason today is called "April Fool's Day"...

;)
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seb146
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:50 am

alfa164 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
How does Mueller's report compare to Starr's report? That is: how long did We The People have to wait to read Starr's full and lengthy report on Monica's stained dress?


It was sent to the House on 9 September, 1998, and released to the public two days later.


interesting.

I get that there may be names that will be redacted in the Mueller report. That's fine. Please redact those names of CIA operatives who must be kept safe. DO NOT REDACT NAMES OF WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS!!! One in particular I can think of. Not Valarie Plame.

That should not take a month. If it took two days to release a gotcha report on Bill Clinton, I can not imagine it would take a month to release an actual fact-based report on individual #1 and his contacts with Russia.....
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:16 pm

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Dutchy
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:23 pm

It would be interesting to see what is actually in the report. If Mueller's Investigation Report is not released in due time, I expect it will surface, rather sooner than later.
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trpmb6
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:05 pm

Several of the things posted are just misrepresentations. Barr has said he will release the report mid April once the de-classification process has been completed. So the meme posted above just isn't fair. Further, Barr himself has said he and Rosenstein released their statement based on the fact that Rosenstein has been tied in with Mueller - receiving regular updates - for a long time now and in part on the executive summary provided at the beginning of the report.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:07 pm

seb146 wrote:

That should not take a month. If it took two days to release a gotcha report on Bill Clinton, I can not imagine it would take a month to release an actual fact-based report on individual #1 and his contacts with Russia.....


Starr and his team have long held that the house should not have voted to release the report as it was constructed. It was not meant for public consumption.

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