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WildcatYXU
Posts: 3085
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Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:30 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Allowing holders of driver licence class B to drive electric vans class C1 (light lorrries) up to 2450 kg (2019)


Hmmm...What's the gross weight limit for class B licence holders in Norway?
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:14 pm

Solar/wind turbine combos along with battery storage in a number of cases is already cheaper than operating a substantial percentage of existing coal plants. When it comes to building new coal plants it is a no-brainer - too expensive and not at all competitive. Even gas-turbine is approaching non-competitive.

ps - I recently switched from a hybrid to an all gas, but only because I no longer drive that much.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
WIederling
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Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:21 pm

DGVT wrote:
I am happy that the child labor in Congo is kept busy mining rare earths.


Congo is cobalt, tantalum. not rare earth afaik.
Murphy is an optimist
 
DGVT
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 12:27 am

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:29 pm

WIederling wrote:
DGVT wrote:
I am happy that the child labor in Congo is kept busy mining rare earths.


Congo is cobalt, tantalum. not rare earth afaik.


You’re right, I stand corrected. The kids are mining cobalt.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:49 am

DGVT wrote:
I am happy that the child labor in congo is kept busy mining rare earths.


Look up the Basel Convention. Also, it's not like most of the major OPEC producers have a stellar human rights record either :banghead:
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
oschkosch
Posts: 225
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Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:54 am

ahh yes, Tesla seems to be rocking it lol!

https://www.businessinsider.de/tesla-q1 ... ?r=US&IR=T

Tesla says it delivered about 63,000 vehicles in the first quarter of 2019, a 31% drop from Q4 2018

Total production: 77,100
Total deliveries: 62,950
Model 3: 50,900
Model S and Model X: 12,100

Tesla is expected to report its first-quarter financials soon, but it has not yet confirmed a release date. Musk said in February that the company would likely dip back into the red for this quarter — a departure from his previous statement's about the company's continued profitability



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesl ... SKCN1RG00V

Total production fell 10.92 percent to 77,100 vehicles from 86,555 vehicles in fourth quarter.

Delivering its Model 3 to international markets posed new challenges for Tesla. Musk tweeted that the company encountered “many unexpected challenges” when Model 3s came through the Belgian port of Zeebrugge in early February. More recently, misprinted labels delayed Model 3s entering through Shanghai.


Looks like nobody told Musk that sea transport takes longer :lol:
 
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seahawk
Posts: 8617
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Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:16 am

Still that is no argument against the green cars. The governments must shape the market so that green cars are bought and at the moment battery cars and plug-in hybrids are the only option. Later we might see fuel cells. But the conventional IC engine should be banned.
 
WIederling
Posts: 8715
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:14 am

seahawk wrote:
Still that is no argument against the green cars. The governments must shape the market so that green cars are bought and at the moment battery cars and plug-in hybrids are the only option. Later we might see fuel cells. But the conventional IC engine should be banned.


you'll find use for those remains.
( different domain, but:)
Germany has the idea of going for LNG fuel for their new emergency/contingency tow vessels.
These will be in a waiting position most of the time. This turns using LNG into a real PITA issue.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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seahawk
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Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:30 am

I personally believe that the plug-in hybrid will be the best solution for a long time. It runs fully electric on short trips but has the range for long trips and does not have to carry heavy batteries on long trips. If we make fuel from renewable energy in the future it is a very good solution that combines the advantages of both systems.

Another huge advantage is that you can restock energy easily. Anybody who ever got stuck in snow storm on the highway knows that it is good to know that 10 litres of fuel will get you warm through the night and even if your tank is nearly empty emergency service can easily add 10l with a canister. Imagine the same scenario in a Tesla with the battery at 20% charge...
 
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Zeppi
Posts: 92
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Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:28 am

M564038 wrote:
Driving 500Km in 3 hours at 150km/h speeds is not an average user profile.

Never said it was...
But it is for me, on a very regular basis. And most of the time is actually spent at 200km/h on that trip, a comfortable cruise speed in germany. Train and flying are not an option either, they take way longer and make it impossible to bring any gear.
Another regular trip is to MUC, almost exactly 200km. That worked OKish with the tesla, it allows cruising at 150km/h without overheating so the trip took an hour and a half (the dinosaur does it in one hour flat) with ~20% battery remaining. The airport has quick chargers so after an hour it was good to go back. That's agreeable. My little EV (BMW i3 120Ah) can do that trip going 120km/h but it's very very tight. I certainly wouldn't try on a hot summer day or a freezing winter night. This winter I drove 80km in -25C and it showed a remaining 50km when I arrived.
Sure, when you are going on a family trip and have all the time in the world that doesn't matter. But on a tight business schedule it certainly does.

What often gives me the chuckles is seeing teslas on the autobahn tucked in tight in the slipstream behind trucks. Works, but you need patience on long trips :lol:

When talking about Norway, are there any statistics on EV use? How large is the share of local/city driving vs. actual cross country driving of say more than 200km? From my experience in Norway that's quite rare, and when you want to get to the cities north of Trondheim most people will just take the plane as driving takes forever.
 
Bostrom
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Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:07 am

WildcatYXU wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Allowing holders of driver licence class B to drive electric vans class C1 (light lorrries) up to 2450 kg (2019)


Hmmm...What's the gross weight limit for class B licence holders in Norway?


3.5 tons.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12192
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:45 am

Zeppi wrote:

What often gives me the chuckles is seeing teslas on the autobahn tucked in tight in the slipstream behind trucks. Works, but you need patience on long trips :lol:


And that's crazy dangerous as well, I don't fancy being the meat in a truck sandwich.


Zeppi wrote:

When talking about Norway, are there any statistics on EV use? How large is the share of local/city driving vs. actual cross country driving of say more than 200km? From my experience in Norway that's quite rare, and when you want to get to the cities north of Trondheim most people will just take the plane as driving takes forever.


I live in a small city, we don't have everything available here so a couple of times per year we do a road trip to Trondheim, a visit to my Mother in laws or wifes younger brother is a 120km round trip. A lot of people in Oslo also make trips across the border to Sweden for shopping, that can be a 200km round trip or more depending on where in Oslo you live.
 
seat64k
Posts: 489
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Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:46 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
The only reason EVs are as successful in Norway as they are today is because the govt has tilted the deck in there favour, if you had to pay the same taxes, tolls and other roads charges as traditional cars nobody would be buying them, except the very wealthy. We know this because when the Danes removed the tax incentives and subsidies on BEVs sales dropped to nearly zero. They had the bring back the subsidies to make them attractive.


Exact same thing happened in Hong Kong.
 
c933103
Posts: 3805
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:45 pm

They were able to sell many EV here when traditional car purchase need to pay 100%+ tax while EV don't. But now they have significant;y cutback the EV tax exempt program, those EV no longer get that much fanfare here.
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3071
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:15 pm

Does anybody think the US would have wasted $trillions in the mid-east if it weren't to defend oil? Add that to the price of a gallon of gas!
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:53 am

M564038 wrote:
It is almost beyond belief.
And very, very cool.
It is happening!
https://e24.no/bil/elbil/lan-marie-berg ... d/24590844


175 square miles, 600,000 people. Go juice is $7.50 a gallon. Duh.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
cpd
Posts: 5988
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:08 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Does anybody think the US would have wasted $trillions in the mid-east if it weren't to defend oil? Add that to the price of a gallon of gas!


It was for Enduring Freedom, not for oil. How could you be so cynical.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12192
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:17 am

c933103 wrote:
They were able to sell many EV here when traditional car purchase need to pay 100%+ tax while EV don't. But now they have significant;y cutback the EV tax exempt program, those EV no longer get that much fanfare here.


BEV's in Norway are still exempt from VAT, the one off registration tax and the annual road tax, so the deck is still stacked in favour of the electric car.
 
cpd
Posts: 5988
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:24 am

oschkosch wrote:
ahh yes, Tesla seems to be rocking it lol!

https://www.businessinsider.de/tesla-q1 ... ?r=US&IR=T

Tesla says it delivered about 63,000 vehicles in the first quarter of 2019, a 31% drop from Q4 2018

Total production: 77,100
Total deliveries: 62,950
Model 3: 50,900
Model S and Model X: 12,100

Tesla is expected to report its first-quarter financials soon, but it has not yet confirmed a release date. Musk said in February that the company would likely dip back into the red for this quarter — a departure from his previous statement's about the company's continued profitability



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesl ... SKCN1RG00V

Total production fell 10.92 percent to 77,100 vehicles from 86,555 vehicles in fourth quarter.

Delivering its Model 3 to international markets posed new challenges for Tesla. Musk tweeted that the company encountered “many unexpected challenges” when Model 3s came through the Belgian port of Zeebrugge in early February. More recently, misprinted labels delayed Model 3s entering through Shanghai.


Looks like nobody told Musk that sea transport takes longer :lol:


But should we really be supporting these "Soviet" electric cars. These cars are going to take away your weekends and ruin them completely.

Just some of the rhetoric against electric cars from the current Australian Federal Government:
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 51c25.html

Never mind that these fools were busily supporting electric cars when it suited them. Never fear, the government will save you from those evil Soviet electric cars and those traitors wanting to take your prized car away from you... Ban those socialist electric cars!! Ban them!!

Yes, that's the level of stupidity this has reached. :bomb:
 
mham001
Posts: 5558
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:58 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Does anybody think the US would have wasted $trillions in the mid-east if it weren't to defend oil? Add that to the price of a gallon of gas!


Something that is NEVER considered in the studies about the true costs of energy. That's why I bought an electric car. Supporting oil despots who would rather wish us harm should be considered un-patriotic.

Good to see Tesla is killing it in Europe - best selling EV in Germany last month too. The Audi is a massive fail with very poor efficiency.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:20 pm

When all the government incentives favoring EVs and the tax disincentives against ICE vehicles are removed, so they compete evenly, we’ll see where real efficiency and consumer desire lies.


gf
 
mham001
Posts: 5558
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:27 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
When all the government incentives favoring EVs and the tax disincentives against ICE vehicles are removed, so they compete evenly, we’ll see where real efficiency and consumer desire lies.


gf


OK, fair point. Let's look at Switzerland. The Tesla Model 3 was the best selling car last month. No federal and very few local incentives and only the most expensive models are being shipped at this time. https://electrek.co/2019/04/09/tesla-mo ... itzerland/

But "tax disincentives against ICE vehicles" is just laughable. Do you not understand the HUGE incentives for fossil fueled propulsion? Who do you think pays for the pollution for example, the automakers? Ha. There is plenty more but I don't have time.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:34 pm

I’ll listen to your pollution argument when you’ve eliminated electrical production from fossil fuels. Big whoop, small market of wealthy buyers doesn’t make Switzerland an example. Overall, EVs are losers for every automaker.

GF
 
mham001
Posts: 5558
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:39 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’ll listen to your pollution argument when you’ve eliminated electrical production from fossil fuels. Big whoop, small market of wealthy buyers doesn’t make Switzerland an example. Overall, EVs are losers for every automaker.

GF


Find one legitimate study that proves thousands of ICE power plants running at ~20% PEAK efficiency some of the time under certain conditions is cleaner than one power plant running 35-65% PEAK efficiency nearly 100% of the time. You cannot.

That aside, who pays to secure that oil?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:10 am

Prove you can build enough clean power production to charge several hundred million cars. If you’re referring to the US Military, take a look at the budget—the defense budget as a percentage of GDP or the overall budget, has not been smaller since 1939.

GF
 
mham001
Posts: 5558
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: 77% of all new cars in Oslo were pure electric vehicles in march 2019.

Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:45 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Prove you can build enough clean power production to charge several hundred million cars. If you’re referring to the US Military, take a look at the budget—the defense budget as a percentage of GDP or the overall budget, has not been smaller since 1939.

GF


Why would I need to prove that when one fossil fueled power plant is already cleaner than thousands of individual ICEs?

But I don't come at this from the Green perspective, pollution is just one of many huge subsidies oil recieves and I used that in response to your laughable claim of "tax disincentives against ICE vehicles". Too easy.

As for this silly argument about a smaller percentage of GDP, I am rather disappointed. You seem like a smart person of a Conservative bent. A Conservative would realize the huge geopolitical ramifications of relieving oil despots around the world of their funding, along with the nationalistic self-sufficiency aspects. American fracking has helped but we are still beholden to protecting the world's oil lines to ensure stable pricing to protect our economy. Imagine the savings of several hundred billion a year in military costs during the last oil wars. I did the math on that some years ago and we could have bought and given away 4 million Model S at the time with that money - every year ($300 billion in mideast military action/Model S @$75k). Israel would not need to spend our $5 billion in aid on weapns because their neighbors wouldn't have the money to threaten them. Socialist dictators such as Maduro and Putin would be gone, for example, further reducing our need for protecting Europe. And you whine about a billion or two in EV subsidies.

Imagine all that money staying within our borders, revolving around working peoples' pocketbooks. What is there to dislike about that? No true Conservative can argue against that.

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