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Tugger
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:12 pm

scbriml wrote:
A101 wrote:
The government is trying to use Sleight of hand for a BRINO


What's 'sleight of hand' about it? The referendum didn't specify what Brexit you voted for. Any Brexit is a Brexit.

Honestly I might argue the "sleight of hand" was the whole question asked in the Brexit vote, it was nebulous and without parameters. As in sleight of hand, what the mind of the audience perceives or imagines is the focus of the act, not the actual facts of what occurs.

Tugg
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noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:12 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Someone just showed me a current poll showing MEP landslide for Labour...


Although polls generally mean nothing, I’d like to a source for your claim.


Although I already said that someone else showed me, you're lucky I did the legwork for you and found it myself:

https://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/ne ... elections/

And before you think about saying "bias" the list of sponsors for that website contains at least one interesting figure...


Lab 25
Con 18
Brexit 9
LibDem 5
UKIP 3

So of 60 seats listed, 55 are from parties that support Brexit.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:39 pm

Tugger wrote:
Honestly I might argue the "sleight of hand" was the whole question asked in the Brexit vote, it was nebulous and without parameters. As in sleight of hand, what the mind of the audience perceives or imagines is the focus of the act, not the actual facts of what occurs.


Agreed. The remain choice was perfectly clear and understood. Leave meant whatever anyone wanted it to mean. :crazy:

noviorbis77 wrote:
So of 60 seats listed, 55 are from parties that supported Brexit in 2017.


Fixed that for you. No guarantee they still will now.
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noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:11 pm

scbriml wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Honestly I might argue the "sleight of hand" was the whole question asked in the Brexit vote, it was nebulous and without parameters. As in sleight of hand, what the mind of the audience perceives or imagines is the focus of the act, not the actual facts of what occurs.


Agreed. The remain choice was perfectly clear and understood. Leave meant whatever anyone wanted it to mean. :crazy:

noviorbis77 wrote:
So of 60 seats listed, 55 are from parties that supported Brexit in 2017.


Fixed that for you. No guarantee they still will now.


And no guarantee they would not still support it.

Fixed that for you.
 
A3801000
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:16 pm

President of the European Parlament is having enough of the UK playing childish:

'I will firmly defend the integrity, efficiency & dignity of the European Parliament, the house of democracy.
We need clarity: UK must decide and tell us what they intend to do.
We cannot continue with this uncertainty that is deeply worrying for citizens & businesses.
The European Parliament cannot have a variable composition. Any extension beyond #Europeanelections will result in UK's obligation to participate. We cannot deal with European Parliament elections being treated as a game. '

From his twitter, about 20 minutes ago.
I have to say I agree with him, it's a farce to extend beyond May 22nd
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:44 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Honestly I might argue the "sleight of hand" was the whole question asked in the Brexit vote, it was nebulous and without parameters. As in sleight of hand, what the mind of the audience perceives or imagines is the focus of the act, not the actual facts of what occurs.


Agreed. The remain choice was perfectly clear and understood. Leave meant whatever anyone wanted it to mean. :crazy:

noviorbis77 wrote:
So of 60 seats listed, 55 are from parties that supported Brexit in 2017.


Fixed that for you. No guarantee they still will now.


And no guarantee they would not still support it.

Fixed that for you.

For Labour that is actually an alien position Corbyn is currently still forcing on the party – its voters are significantly pro Remain and he can switch his position at the drop of a hat – his base and especially the Labour-accessible electorate is already pulling for that and he only needs a plausibly sellable trigger opportunity to take the jump when he sees it as the better advantage. And despite his own europhobic instincts that moment will come, and even he knows it.

For the Tories and the right-wing crazies it's the opposite – they'll remain trapped holding the bag with the flaming turd with nowhere to go, and especially the younger voters won't forget it.

It's an extremely asymmetrical situation, and the leavers in the Commons keep getting shriller, more desperate and even less credible by the minute. The whole debacle may turn out to be the fever the UK needs to sweat out at least much of the insanity.

The question still is whether it's soon enough to prevent the worst of the consequences.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:10 pm

Klaus wrote:
For Labour that is actually an alien position Corbyn is currently still forcing on the party – its voters are significantly pro Remain and he can switch his position at the drop of a hat – his base and especially the Labour-accessible electorate is already pulling for that and he only needs a plausibly sellable trigger opportunity to take the jump when he sees it as the better advantage. And despite his own europhobic instincts that moment will come, and even he knows it.


Exactly, Corbyn tries to be all things to everyone. His arse must be sore from constantly sitting on the fence! Being leader of the opposition is easy - promis everyone everything safe in the knowledge you don't have to deliver. It will be very interesting to see what Labour's position is if they have to field MEP candidates.
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noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:18 pm

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Agreed. The remain choice was perfectly clear and understood. Leave meant whatever anyone wanted it to mean. :crazy:



Fixed that for you. No guarantee they still will now.


And no guarantee they would not still support it.

Fixed that for you.

For Labour that is actually an alien position Corbyn is currently still forcing on the party – its voters are significantly pro Remain and he can switch his position at the drop of a hat – his base and especially the Labour-accessible electorate is already pulling for that and he only needs a plausibly sellable trigger opportunity to take the jump when he sees it as the better advantage. And despite his own europhobic instincts that moment will come, and even he knows it.

For the Tories and the right-wing crazies it's the opposite – they'll remain trapped holding the bag with the flaming turd with nowhere to go, and especially the younger voters won't forget it.

It's an extremely asymmetrical situation, and the leavers in the Commons keep getting shriller, more desperate and even less credible by the minute. The whole debacle may turn out to be the fever the UK needs to sweat out at least much of the insanity.

The question still is whether it's soon enough to prevent the worst of the consequences.


You are getting confused between members and voters.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:33 pm

JJJ wrote:

They knew from the start Brexit was an undesirable outcome, but they lied to you because of petty internal politics.


If you look at the rhetoric from David Cameron he has been advocating that the electorate have more say in regards to the EU and the diminishing sovereignty of the UK for sometime,in which the EU wants a more unified political union, it just wasn’t over the last couple of years he pushed the referenda wheelbarrow


JJJ wrote:
They should just come clean and say it clearly. It's not like they have much face left to save anyway.


Who are you referring too? David Cameron or Theresa May?

David Cameron put up the good fight in the lead up to the referenda and I believe he was above board in giving the electorate more say in matters of national importance in regards to the EU, unlike the Heath government who foisted the EEC onto the UK without putting it to a referenda.

But in respects of Therese May I agree she should acknowledge that she has put the UK into a difficult position due to her reluctance to leave the EU in full hence the WA which give the power to the EU if the UK can actually leave.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:52 pm

It seems it takes some time for the council to decide. If the rumours are to be trusted, Macron seems to be the most opposed to an extension. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... -live-news
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:49 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
You are getting confused between members and voters.

Nope. For Labour most of their MPs, members and voters all prefer Remain – for the Tories it's only most of the current MPs who do – most of their (much fewer) members and voters (rapidly aging with the young abandoning them in droves) are resolute leavers.

And Corbyn's entire tactical song and dance is focused on having the Tories standing there alone, holding the bag with all the responsibility and blame for Brexit when the music stops.

Corbyn personally would still love to have Brexit gone through at that point with the Tories having all the blame and him erecting his socialist wonderland on the ashes, but if push comes to shove (and you're most of the way there already) he'll jump to the Remain side before the Brexit fallout reaches his own feet.
 
A3801000
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:57 pm

48 hours, EU has to come to a agreement tonight, May has to take it to the British parliament and get it to agree on it. We'll see...
 
A3801000
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:00 pm

Newest rumours:
Most EU countries ok with longer extension
France: 30th of June max
Italy: close to walk out
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:11 pm

A3801000 wrote:
48 hours, EU has to come to a agreement tonight, May has to take it to the British parliament and get it to agree on it. We'll see...


An extension date? Parliament already voted for an extension, I don't think they have to approve it. If an extension is granted, the Government will have to amend the Brexit Bill to reflect that new date.
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A3801000
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:18 pm

scbriml wrote:
A3801000 wrote:
48 hours, EU has to come to a agreement tonight, May has to take it to the British parliament and get it to agree on it. We'll see...


An extension date? Parliament already voted for an extension, I don't think they have to approve it. If an extension is granted, the Government will have to amend the Brexit Bill to reflect that new date.


You sure? I thought they would have to agree again if the date is not June 30th, but I could be wrong.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:35 pm

"EU leaders agreed on Thursday to delay Brexit until the end of October, with a review in June, diplomatic sources told Reuters."
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:41 pm

BBC now reporting EU27 agrees to extension to Oct 31st.

Who'd be a Brexit party organiser? :lol:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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CPH-R
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:45 pm

From The Guardian:
EU sources have confirmed that there will be an article 50 extension to 31 October with a review of British cooperation to determine whether there should be an earlier exit on 30 June – the date Theresa May originally asked for.

The June “break clause” has been put in to appease France, as the president, Emmanuel Macron, wanted assurances that the UK would conduct European elections properly.
 
CPH-R
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:47 pm

CPH-R wrote:
From The Guardian:
EU sources have confirmed that there will be an article 50 extension to 31 October with a review of British cooperation to determine whether there should be an earlier exit on 30 June – the date Theresa May originally asked for.

The June “break clause” has been put in to appease France, as the president, Emmanuel Macron, wanted assurances that the UK would conduct European elections properly.


And a follow-up tweet from Sky News' political correspondent
If October 31st is the new Brexit date then, according to what the @ElectoralCommUK told me last week, there is *just* enough time for a referendum, if parliament were so minded.

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/statu ... 8948789255
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:30 am

Regreatfull in the delay on responding as I just keep getting very busy


Klaus wrote:
You're missing the point: An elected MP and especially PM cannot abdicate his or her responsibility for the outcome of their policies, completely regardless of any political promises made – using their own judgment and then standing up to take the responsibility for that judgment is inherent in the position and simply cannot be fobbed off to an incidental referendum, regardless of circumstances!


Incorrect the PM dose not hold absolutel power in shaping the manifesto it is a party and cabinet position, the referenda was endorsed by parliament on both sides of the house



Klaus wrote:
And out the window go all your attempts to construct a somehow still compulsory effect from it!


Show me where I have said it is “compulsory” you just cannot accept that the government said it would honour the results of the referenda, the position of remain camp is it’s all right not to honour election policy/ manifesto‘s if you do not agree with it. That gives the government a blank check to lie and bullshit in the full knowledge that the electorate will disregard their callings to honour policy.




Klaus wrote:
The implication was: "Those who advocated for Leave have the responsibility to come up with an actual plan!"

Those Leave advocates have just completely shirked that responsibility, so the regular responsibility of all the elected representatives for the fate of the country kicks back in, and that is not optional, it is mandatory!


You still did not answer the question, your definition of the word “remain & leave”

The remain and leave campaign had no authority to have a plan for after the referenda, that was the job of government. Did the remain campaign have a plan to reform the EU as per the manifesto.





Klaus wrote:
If years down the road from a referendum that decision turns out to be completely unworkable and the elected politicians turn out to be completely unable to deal with that situation.


In this case of Brexit you are talking about not coming to an agreement for the WA, the actual leaving of the EU is still achievable as it within the mechanism of article 50. The intent of leaving the EU is workable just not in way by agreement of both party’s EU/UK

Klaus wrote:
it is in fact entirely proper and appropriate to put the then current state of affairs to the people again to either revise the previous decision or to confirm that the country is to be pushed over the cliff edge regardless of not having any workable plan, but notably with the voters now actually knowing the reality of what had just been an unrealistic fantasy before!


The cliff edge or working plan is their, you just do not like it. In the event on leaving the EU is WTO their is a plan on a no deal exit
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:49 am

Perfect. My two planned visits to England will apparently proceed without Brexit snafus.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:37 am

scbriml wrote:
A3801000 wrote:
48 hours, EU has to come to a agreement tonight, May has to take it to the British parliament and get it to agree on it. We'll see...


An extension date? Parliament already voted for an extension, I don't think they have to approve it. If an extension is granted, the Government will have to amend the Brexit Bill to reflect that new date.



I thought I read a couple of days ago that parliament put a rider on one of the bills that TM has to get approval from Parliament for the extension date
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:40 am

scbriml wrote:
BBC now reporting EU27 agrees to extension to Oct 31st.

Who'd be a Brexit party organiser? :lol:



We just get more drinking time with each extension
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:13 am

So does an extension to Oct-31 mean new elections, another referendum, rework the WA, I hope its one or both of the first two, cant think the existing WA is going to get an approval unless the house changes.
 
wingman
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:21 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Perfect. My two planned visits to England will apparently proceed without Brexit snafus.


It’s unfortunate. I’ll be in Edinburgh in October for a lifetime bucket list trip. I’d hoped to buy Old Town on the Visa Card but sadly the pound may still have value. So disappointing to stay the Radisson when the Castle could’ve been mine. Silly Remainers!
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:36 am

par13del wrote:
So does an extension to Oct-31 mean new elections, another referendum, rework the WA, I hope its one or both of the first two, cant think the existing WA is going to get an approval unless the house changes.

The Withdrawal Agreement is an inescapable element in any future relationship if there is to be one. Rejecting it now only means it will still be sitting on the table when the UK will be coming back from its tantrum for a future relationship: Even after "no deal" what's now the WA will then be the automatic first step before further negotiations can even start – and Brexit should have shown anybody that the EU does indeed stick to such essential principles.

The thing is just that the WA is simply common sense and actually rather obvious – it contains nothing that is actually in the real world in any way a special burden or indignity – the Brexit fanatics have just tried to turn it into that because they've had to abandon all their other pretenses broken down at the roadside. It's their last gasp.

And no, the WA won't be re-opened. That should be obvious by now, too!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:57 am

Klaus wrote:

The thing is just that the WA is simply common sense and actually rather obvious – it contains nothing that is actually in the real world in any way a special burden or indignity



Really.........

The UK cannot leave the backstop independently, it needs to be decided together with the EU, and for whatever reason the EU decide is best for them the EU will not release the UK from the EU.

How in the real that is not a special burden or indignity?
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:19 am

The legality of signing the WA gives the EU total control of our sovereignty which contradicts our constitutional rights of to ” Parliament must not bind our successor” and also gives us no legal avenue to voluntary leave the EU unless we repeal the European Communities Act 1972 (UK) and if we did so being a member of the EU will find the UK in breach its obligations as a Member State, while Infringement proceedings could be brought against the UK before the ECJ.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:16 am

That is something the UK as a sovereign nation should not accept. #outnow
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:10 am

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
You are getting confused between members and voters.

Nope. For Labour most of their MPs, members and voters all prefer Remain – for the Tories it's only most of the current MPs who do – most of their (much fewer) members and voters (rapidly aging with the young abandoning them in droves) are resolute leavers.

And Corbyn's entire tactical song and dance is focused on having the Tories standing there alone, holding the bag with all the responsibility and blame for Brexit when the music stops.

Corbyn personally would still love to have Brexit gone through at that point with the Tories having all the blame and him erecting his socialist wonderland on the ashes, but if push comes to shove (and you're most of the way there already) he'll jump to the Remain side before the Brexit fallout reaches his own feet.


Nope you are wrong.

You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Labour supporters support remain.

Please do not post things that are not true.
 
A3801000
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:16 am

UK ambassador to the EU Sir Tim Barrow has written to European Council President Donald Tusk to formally accept the extension of Article 50 to 31 October.
Now waiting for the clown show aka the British parliament
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:27 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Please do not post things that are not true.

:rotfl:
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:30 am

par13del wrote:
So does an extension to Oct-31 mean new elections, another referendum, rework the WA, I hope its one or both of the first two, cant think the existing WA is going to get an approval unless the house changes.


Or will it just mean more inability to agree on anything?
 
A3801000
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:06 am

31st of October? Well, I have a friend from India, he always tells me that the Brits need a long time to leave. ;)
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:15 am

Bostrom wrote:
par13del wrote:
So does an extension to Oct-31 mean new elections, another referendum, rework the WA, I hope its one or both of the first two, cant think the existing WA is going to get an approval unless the house changes.


Or will it just mean more inability to agree on anything?


I certainly can't see the Conservatives calling an election, so it would require a vote of no confidence in the Government. Now, May has apparently 'threatened' to carry on to see Brexit through. This will infuriate the Brextremists in the Tory party, but would they be mad enough to vote against their own Government in a no confidence vote? It might be the only way they can see to get rid of May given she said she would not lead them into the next GE. But, it would be a huge gamble that might see a Labour Government elected. The big question is, do they see that as a risk worth taking?

Now the time pressure is off, I just expect to see more of the same. I can't honestly see anything coming from the cross-party talks and if it did, it would almost certainly come with the requirement for a confirmatory vote.

What will be interesting is the EU elections - watch as the parties that said they'd deliver Brexit put up candidates. :rotfl:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:33 am

scbriml wrote:
What will be interesting is the EU elections - watch as the parties that said they'd deliver Brexit put up candidates. :rotfl:

Do they have to field candidates, what is the penalty if they don't?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:36 am

par13del wrote:
scbriml wrote:
What will be interesting is the EU elections - watch as the parties that said they'd deliver Brexit put up candidates. :rotfl:

Do they have to field candidates, what is the penalty if they don't?


The UK has to hold EU elections but there's no requirement or compulsion for any political party to field candidates. But they all will!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:42 am

The 'final' date has now been put at Oct. 31st, ironically 'Halloween' day. At least they didn't set it for Guy Falks day about a week later. So the UK still has to hold EU Parliament elections, the UK will likely have a general election that will be a hot mess, possibly another and confirming or remain referendum that will be crazy.

Sadly no matter what, serious and irreparable political damage has been done to the UK and in some ways to the EU as well. There will be a further erosion of trust in government, likely fewer voting, those that run for office to be more likely racist populist right wingers pushing dreams of unicorns.
 
A3801000
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:44 am

No more pressure means that May and Corbyn will come to no result, I think that was it with Brexit. Expect a new extension by October.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:53 am

Well, a delay so the UK parliament will rush to take a break the next 15 days :)
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:55 am

Participating in the EU elections means giving up Brexit, this would be against the will of the people, who voted to leave. 90% of the parties in parliament got their seats by promising to deliver Brexit. It is time to deliver.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:12 am

What does Macron’s June review mean?

While the EU wrangled over dates, May dined at the British ambassador’s residence, where roast lamb and treacle tart was on the menu. She was called back to the summit around midnight to be presented with a take-it-or-leave-it delay until 31 October 2018, with the issue to be reviewed in June.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:30 am

I guess it means that the EU elections in the UK will be checked?
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:32 am

seahawk wrote:
Participating in the EU elections means giving up Brexit, this would be against the will of the people, who voted to leave. 90% of the parties in parliament got their seats by promising to deliver Brexit. It is time to deliver.


Broken record (again). Brexit is only the will of those who voted for it in 2016 and not everyone who voted for it then will vote the same way if there was a second referendum. Not everyone voted for it (and the margin between remaining and leaving was only about 1.3m or so - not exactly a thumping majority) and 28% of those eligible to vote didn't vote at all. Which part of that isn't clear?

I can't decide if you just want Brexit at all costs or you really don't understand the situation at all.

noviorbis77 wrote:
Nope you are wrong.

You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Labour supporters support remain.

Please do not post things that are not true.


This is unscientific, but in my social circle at least who I know to be Labour supporters, there are more of them who support remaining than those who support leaving.

par13del wrote:
So does an extension to Oct-31 mean new elections, another referendum, rework the WA, I hope its one or both of the first two, cant think the existing WA is going to get an approval unless the house changes.


The UK taking part in the upcoming EP Elections is pretty much a given now (and if there is I will certainly be taking part), a second referendum is probably not to be ruled out, re-opening the WA is out of the question I'd say unless there's a major shift in May's red lines. If by new elections you mean a General Election, now isn't the time for that, plus I don't think there's appetite within the Conservatives to hold an election and the only party that's actively pushing for a GE is Labour.

scbriml wrote:
Klaus wrote:
For Labour that is actually an alien position Corbyn is currently still forcing on the party – its voters are significantly pro Remain and he can switch his position at the drop of a hat – his base and especially the Labour-accessible electorate is already pulling for that and he only needs a plausibly sellable trigger opportunity to take the jump when he sees it as the better advantage. And despite his own europhobic instincts that moment will come, and even he knows it.


Exactly, Corbyn tries to be all things to everyone. His arse must be sore from constantly sitting on the fence! Being leader of the opposition is easy - promis everyone everything safe in the knowledge you don't have to deliver. It will be very interesting to see what Labour's position is if they have to field MEP candidates.


I suspect a large number of Corbynista's are in for a big disappointment if Corbyn somehow becomes Prime Minister.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:35 am

Image
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:51 am

Boeing74741R wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Participating in the EU elections means giving up Brexit, this would be against the will of the people, who voted to leave. 90% of the parties in parliament got their seats by promising to deliver Brexit. It is time to deliver.


Broken record (again). Brexit is only the will of those who voted for it in 2016 and not everyone who voted for it then will vote the same way if there was a second referendum. Not everyone voted for it (and the margin between remaining and leaving was only about 1.3m or so - not exactly a thumping majority) and 28% of those eligible to vote didn't vote at all. Which part of that isn't clear?

I can't decide if you just want Brexit at all costs or you really don't understand the situation at all.


The question is what are the costs of Brexit and what are the alternatives. For the EU Brexit will cause some problems that can be handled, but once the UK is out stability will return and businesses can plan accordingly again - like moving from the UK to the EU.

The UK revoking by a small majority will be worse, as now you have a member in the club that does not want to be there and with every election in the UK you will face the threat of another Brexit attempt. Imho this is worse in the long run. No stability inside the EU, no chance to move the EU forward and no stability for businesses either.

Options like Brino are imho facing the same problem. It will hardly find a majority in the UK and will be in constant danger of the UK wanting to change or leave the agreement. Again no stability for businesses.

Imho the worst outcome possible is an UK that feels forced to revoke and returns with an even stronger anti-EU feeling and the goal to hinder the development of the EU as much as possible.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:58 am

ltbewr wrote:
The 'final' date has now been put at Oct. 31st, ironically 'Halloween' day. At least they didn't set it for Guy Falks day about a week later.


I hadn't thought about that, but Guy Fawkes' Night is bound to lead to some interesting stunts...

Is Anonymous still a thing...?
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:02 pm

Olddog wrote:
Image


This captures perfectly the frustration of the EU.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:14 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Olddog wrote:
Image


This captures perfectly the frustration of the EU.


But to be fair, it's just a re-hash of the joke that French politician made about getting a cat and naming it Brexit...
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:15 pm

Olddog wrote:
Well, a delay so the UK parliament will rush to take a break the next 15 days :)


Yep. Got extra time to decide an issue of national importance? Let's take some time off! See you on 23rd April. You couldn't make this up. :banghead:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
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