VSMUT
Posts: 2704
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 8:29 am

Dutchy wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
And just because people have the sense to be pro-EU, doesn't mean that they are automatically in favour of moving the parliament every so often.


I actually know no one whom is in favor of this ridiculous moving every month, except the French government.


IMHO, sending the politicians out to see the world can be a healthy thing. Way too often we see public officials centralizing everything around themselves in the capital city. It is an issue in both Denmark, France and the UK. If going to Strasbourg from time to time means that the politicians get to go out and see the world, then that is a good thing. It will encourage them to look beyond their narrow world in Brussels when investing in infrastructure and education.

It actually isn't so expensive in the grand scheme of things.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 688
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 9:17 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

How very quaint. Anyway, the discussion about the sorry state of Britain's high streets really has nothing to do with Brexit, so we'll move on, shall we?


Michael Heseltine has Tory whip withdrawn after saying he would vote Lib Dem in the EU election.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48344485

Meanwhile, it appears they have very large seagulls in Newcastle!
Image



Is violence against people you dislike in the political field ok by you?

Not really something to make jokes about is it. This sort of thing needs to be nipped in the bud. we’ve already had the Jo Cox incident, so childish jibes against assaults of political figures isn’t very clever is it.



I can understand the frustration that someone has with mr. Farage, because he wants to make GB small again for a group of extremely rich men, but this is not the way.


Wasn’t someone frustrated with a Dutch MP who threw a cake at him? Then one month later he was murdered.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2380
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 9:26 am

There is one fact, and one fact alone, which totally and utterly undermines the main Brexit argument, namely 'taking back control': 99% of the UK state budget is determined by Westminister. Nothing further need saying. But if you really need to say more, 75% of immigration to the UK is from outside the EU. That's also the group of immigrants being a drain on society, whereas the 25% from the EU provide essential services nobody in the UK is willing or able to do, and yields a net profit of roughly 2BN UKP a year.

Sadly the UK is inundated with ignorants who chose to believe whatever they read in their rags, rags which have for decades been pumping lie after lie after lie out about the EU, whilst simultaneously refraining from issuing actual reports on what the EU really does, how it does it and why it does it.
Signature. You just read one.
 
A101
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 10:11 am

scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Is violence against people you dislike in the political field ok by you?


Your threshold of the definition of "violence" is clearly much lower than mine. Britain has a long history of egging nasty politicians.


Doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do, if someone random pelted you with eggs and you caught the person what do you think should happen to them?
 
A101
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 10:28 am

Dutchy wrote:


The EU has indeed some strange things and is wasting money in some area's, and is very efficient in some other area's. How much of the annual budget is wasted in the UK on civil servants and the hole government apparatus? In the EU it is 6%, very efficient, so you and your college's waste much more money than the EU, so I am not exactly sure how you can lecture the EU about not wasting money. All the services the EU does at the moment will go back to the UK, most probably it will cost the UK tax-payer more when your wet dream becomes reality. But why let facts stand in the way of a good argument?





Would be nice if you did an apples with apples comparison before sprouting the virtues of the EU. By this I mean looking at wasteful government spending from all members of the union, last time I looked it wasn’t quite a federal European Union just yet, so you can’t compare one without comparing them all.

And actually use figures not just a hearsay comparison like “so you and your college's waste much more money than the EU” when you haven’t produced the evidence
 
A101
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 10:30 am

B777LRF wrote:
There is one fact, and one fact alone, which totally and utterly undermines the main Brexit argument, namely 'taking back control': 99% of the UK state budget is determined by Westminister. Nothing further need saying. But if you really need to say more, 75% of immigration to the UK is from outside the EU. That's also the group of immigrants being a drain on society, whereas the 25% from the EU provide essential services nobody in the UK is willing or able to do, and yields a net profit of roughly 2BN UKP a year.

Sadly the UK is inundated with ignorants who chose to believe whatever they read in their rags, rags which have for decades been pumping lie after lie after lie out about the EU, whilst simultaneously refraining from issuing actual reports on what the EU really does, how it does it and why it does it.


Source please thank you.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2972
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 11:21 am

British Steel on the brink of collapse, unless the Governement props it up with more money, before this evening!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brit ... SKCN1SR0N2

British Steel employs around 5,000 people, mostly in Scunthorpe, in the north of England, while 20,000 more depend on its supply chain throughout the UK.

British Steel is saddled with high labour, energy and logistics costs, as well as uncertainties surrounding Britain’s planned exit from the European Union.

Is this the much touted Brexit dividend, starting to be paid out in cash to British workers too, now? ;)
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 11:29 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:


The EU has indeed some strange things and is wasting money in some area's, and is very efficient in some other area's. How much of the annual budget is wasted in the UK on civil servants and the hole government apparatus? In the EU it is 6%, very efficient, so you and your college's waste much more money than the EU, so I am not exactly sure how you can lecture the EU about not wasting money. All the services the EU does at the moment will go back to the UK, most probably it will cost the UK tax-payer more when your wet dream becomes reality. But why let facts stand in the way of a good argument?





Would be nice if you did an apples with apples comparison before sprouting the virtues of the EU. By this I mean looking at wasteful government spending from all members of the union, last time I looked it wasn’t quite a federal European Union just yet, so you can’t compare one without comparing them all.

And actually use figures not just a hearsay comparison like “so you and your college's waste much more money than the EU” when you haven’t produced the evidence


Since he and his colleague's spent something like 99% of the UK budget and the EU about 1%, it is quite likely that they waste a lot more money in absolute Euro's then the EU. No need to come up with absolute figures when there is this kind of discrepancies.

But always nice to see that you are attacking me on this, while giving noviorbis77 a pass. So it isn't quite principle with you, just opportunity :lol:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6040
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 1:29 pm

VSMUT, what kind of "world" do they see in their all expenses paid, tax-free parallel universe? Be it in Strasbourg or Brussels.
Besides, this Strasbourg nonsense is meant to be just a super-expensive monument to French-German friendship. (which people in Finland, Malta or Ireland probably could not care less about)
It has become an unintended and symbolic monument to EU's inability to reform even the most obvious examples of wastefulness.

Dogman wrote:
I am not sure what exactly do you want. You like the benefits of the EU? Well, they are the result of a tighter integration.

They are the pillars of the EU. Schengen was Here before Maastricht or Lisbon.

Dogman wrote:
If you think that the benefits outweigh the loss of the ability to make independent policy decisions? Then stay in the EU. You think that Czech republic is hamstrung by losing the ability to make its own policies? Then leave. It appears that you want all the benefits of integration without any of the constrains. It just doesn't work like that.


What doesn't work like that? Anyone who doesn't subscribe to the concept of leftist, overreaching EU should be kicked out? Any dissenting opinion still arguing in favor of the EU receives asinine response "So just throwing away 70 years of cooperation is better than move forward and fix the problems the EU has."from the far-left? Is it the Left's way or no way?

I personally would be quite content with pre-Lisbon more scaled back, lean and static (enough of the
ever closer union) EU.
EU as a primarily trading block, with Euro optional. A political entity only to the extent ALL member states agree upon. I see no need to duplicate NATO with some sissy EU Army, advocated by those who have been sabotaging NATO for ages and have been either instigators of wars or unreliable allies.

The real question what is the endgame for the those whose only answer to any question is "more EUrope"?
Some sort of French-style dirigist superstate, where the shots are called by the French, paid for by the Germans and everyone else is "just markets"? AF-KLM x 27 if we stay in aviation terms?

BTW, where are You from?
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 1:43 pm

A101 wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
There is one fact, and one fact alone, which totally and utterly undermines the main Brexit argument, namely 'taking back control': 99% of the UK state budget is determined by Westminister. Nothing further need saying. But if you really need to say more, 75% of immigration to the UK is from outside the EU. That's also the group of immigrants being a drain on society, whereas the 25% from the EU provide essential services nobody in the UK is willing or able to do, and yields a net profit of roughly 2BN UKP a year.

Sadly the UK is inundated with ignorants who chose to believe whatever they read in their rags, rags which have for decades been pumping lie after lie after lie out about the EU, whilst simultaneously refraining from issuing actual reports on what the EU really does, how it does it and why it does it.


Source please thank you.


It's actually all fairly common knowledge (or I would say, should be), and is freely available in Govenmental reports (produced by the ONS). Also the numbers were talked about by Remain MPs during Brexit and afterwards, but they were not listened to and touted as fake news.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-b ... ed_Kingdom Do the maths on the numbers. Provided by the ONS, see the bottom of the page for data sources.

Workers:

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/r ... -overview/

"Retail, wholesale and hospitality are the largest group of industries employing the EU born, while non-EU born workers are more likely to be in public administration and education
In 2017 one in every four EU migrants were employed in retail, wholesale, and hospitality. However, EU foreign-born workers are also employed in higher skill sectors such as banking and finance (17%) and public administration or education (18%). While one every 5 non-EU migrants is employed in the retail, wholesale and hospitality, about 30% are employed in the public administration and education sectors, and 20% are employed in banking and finance. A higher share of EU-born migrants is employed in the manufacturing sector (15%) compared to the non-EU born (6%). Looking at UK-born workers nearly one every three of UK-born workers are employed in public administration and education, while the percentage employed in retail, hotels and restaurant is lower than both the EU and Non-EU workers."


Hospitality, retail, farming, factory work. All jobs that we struggle to get young brits to do. I have first hand experience of this.

UK has a shortage of nurses and doctors, which are filled by EU migrants. Again, not enough UK people will do these jobs for the wages paid, t & cs. Also not helped by govenment cutting nurse bursaries. It takes a long time to train a doctor, so those leaving the UK now will not easily be replaced by UK born nationals. And as the data from the ONS shows, the last 2 years immigration from outside of the EU has increased significantly, vastly more than the reduction in EU migrants (who are leaving in droves).


EU migrants net gain:

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent- ... 250df6dbba
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 42506.html
https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-644 ... 144feabdc0

"Taken together, this means that the migrants who arrived in 2016 will make a total net positive contribution of £26.9 billion to the UK’s public finances over the entirety of their stay. The value of this to the UK’s public finances is equivalent to putting approximately 5p on income tax rates (across all marginal rate bands) in that year."


The entire premise that FOM is a drain on the UK, stops UK nationals getting employment (since we have near as dammit total employment right now), only takes from the NHS, stops workers from other countries coming in is now and has always been complete BS.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2380
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 2:24 pm

A101 wrote:
Source please thank you.


Any copy of the Daily Mail for the last 20-odd years will suffice.
Signature. You just read one.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2972
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 3:17 pm

Meanwhile, TM is about to hold a speech on her reviewed 4TH (!) attempt to get the WA accepted by Parliament.
Her latest attempt will allegedly include a temporary Customs Union with the EU till the next general election, as well as revive the odd government proposal for the UK to be allowed to collect tariffs on behalf of the EU thereafter, if and when it is no longer in a full CU with the EU. :cry2:

Seriously, this was already shot down almost a year ago by the EU!
No nation, no trading block outsources the enforcing of its fiscal border to a third nation and rightfully so, as there can be no legal oversight of it (no ECJ oversight, remember) and it can be used as blackmail tool in negotiations even (by not releasing the money). You seriously can not be standing in front of a billboard asking to take back control of your money and borders, and do so by asking others to effectively hand you control over theirs! :banghead:

It's not because the UK -as a memberstate- is collecting duties on behalf of the EU, that it should be allowed to keep on doing so once it has left, only to facilitate it's own exit and be able to set up a highly complex dual duty mechanism for all import into the UK depending its final destination.

Once again, the British Government is demonstrating it does NOT understand the full implications of being a third country to the EU.
The only thing evident by this renewed push is that TM has no idea whatsoever how to proceed, and is litterally going around in circles now, going back to old and failed proposals which are not even on offer from the EU... what's the point on voting for something when you already know it's not on offer anyway?
 
KLDC10
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 4:22 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, TM is about to hold a speech on her reviewed 4TH (!) attempt to get the WA accepted by Parliament.
Her latest attempt will allegedly include a temporary Customs Union with the EU till the next general election, as well as revive the odd government proposal for the UK to be allowed to collect tariffs on behalf of the EU thereafter, if and when it is no longer in a full CU with the EU. :cry2:


The BBC's Political Editor speculated on Twitter that it might have been her last major speech as Prime Minister. The Conservatives are expected to take a thorough beating at the hands of The Brexit Party in European Elections later this week and their vote share might even dip into single-digits. If it's really bad, she might be forced out before having a chance to bring the WAB to the Commons.

Moreover, in the hour since she made her speech, her offer has been roundly condemned by politicians from across the political spectrum. Most concerning for her, however, is that a number of Tories who voted for it last time have announced they won't this time:
Zac Goldsmith: https://twitter.com/ZacGoldsmith/status ... 4518568960
Simon Clarke: https://twitter.com/SimonClarkeMP/statu ... 2667069442
Andrew Percy: https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/11 ... 8735303681
Rees-Mogg backed the deal at MV3, but appears to be wavering this time: https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/sta ... 5436721153
The DUP has also released a scathing assessment: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/stat ... 2707378181

I'm not sure the party is going to allow her to bring it back for a fourth vote even if she does remain in office after the Euro Elections.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
737/738/739/744/748/752/763/772/789
A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/A346/A359
Q400/E170/E175/E190/CS300
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1076
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 4:36 pm

Some of those MP’s only backed her at the third attempt when it dawned on them that this was the only form of Brexit they can hope for and it was futile holding out for a harder Brexit. There will always be those who will continue rejecting it no matter what.

The big one for me in May’s speech was a vote to hold a second referendum. I await further details what this means exactly, but it’ll be interesting to see the reaction of those who have been advocating a second referendum.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 4:39 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
I personally would be quite content with pre-Lisbon more scaled back, lean and static (enough of the
ever closer union) EU.


In combination with:

L410Turbolet wrote:
Besides, this Strasbourg nonsense is meant to be just a super-expensive monument to French-German friendship. (which people in Finland, Malta or Ireland probably could not care less about)


The reason why we had the Lisbon treaty is that with the EU28 the EU was inflexible with everyone has a veto with everything: Strasbourg is the perfect example. So in order to make the EU more democratic and more manageable / flexible, the Lisbon treaty was born, or actually the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe, TCA. The TCA was rejected by referendum in France and The Netherlands. That is a shame, because it would have made the EU more democratic and more agile.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 4:45 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, TM is about to hold a speech on her reviewed 4TH (!) attempt to get the WA accepted by Parliament.
Her latest attempt will allegedly include a temporary Customs Union with the EU till the next general election, as well as revive the odd government proposal for the UK to be allowed to collect tariffs on behalf of the EU thereafter, if and when it is no longer in a full CU with the EU. :cry2:

Seriously, this was already shot down almost a year ago by the EU!
No nation, no trading block outsources the enforcing of its fiscal border to a third nation and rightfully so, as there can be no legal oversight of it (no ECJ oversight, remember) and it can be used as blackmail tool in negotiations even (by not releasing the money). You seriously can not be standing in front of a billboard asking to take back control of your money and borders, and do so by asking others to effectively hand you control over theirs! :banghead:

It's not because the UK -as a memberstate- is collecting duties on behalf of the EU, that it should be allowed to keep on doing so once it has left, only to facilitate it's own exit and be able to set up a highly complex dual duty mechanism for all import into the UK depending its final destination.

Once again, the British Government is demonstrating it does NOT understand the full implications of being a third country to the EU.
The only thing evident by this renewed push is that TM has no idea whatsoever how to proceed, and is litterally going around in circles now, going back to old and failed proposals which are not even on offer from the EU... what's the point on voting for something when you already know it's not on offer anyway?


So here we have a "deal" which isn't backed by her parliament nor by the EU, she truly outdone herself. :roll:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 17149
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 4:54 pm

A101 wrote:
Doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do, if someone random pelted you with eggs and you caught the person what do you think should happen to them?


I never said it was right and I never condoned it. That doesn't mean I can't be amused highly by Farage being 'milkshaked'.

As to punishment? Prison is ludicrously disproportionate, a few hours of community service will do nicely.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
KLDC10
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 4:56 pm

Labour likely to vote against WAB too: https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status ... 5443577857

Meanwhile, Buzzfeed is maintaining a rolling list of Tory Rebels: https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/to ... rawal-bill

Can't see how the bill even gets to Parliament, let alone receives majority support in the House of Commons.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
737/738/739/744/748/752/763/772/789
A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/A346/A359
Q400/E170/E175/E190/CS300
 
A101
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 6:25 pm

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:


The EU has indeed some strange things and is wasting money in some area's, and is very efficient in some other area's. How much of the annual budget is wasted in the UK on civil servants and the hole government apparatus? In the EU it is 6%, very efficient, so you and your college's waste much more money than the EU, so I am not exactly sure how you can lecture the EU about not wasting money. All the services the EU does at the moment will go back to the UK, most probably it will cost the UK tax-payer more when your wet dream becomes reality. But why let facts stand in the way of a good argument?





Would be nice if you did an apples with apples comparison before sprouting the virtues of the EU. By this I mean looking at wasteful government spending from all members of the union, last time I looked it wasn’t quite a federal European Union just yet, so you can’t compare one without comparing them all.

And actually use figures not just a hearsay comparison like “so you and your college's waste much more money than the EU” when you haven’t produced the evidence


Since he and his colleague's spent something like 99% of the UK budget and the EU about 1%, it is quite likely that they waste a lot more money in absolute Euro's then the EU. No need to come up with absolute figures when there is this kind of discrepancies.

But always nice to see that you are attacking me on this, while giving noviorbis77 a pass. So it isn't quite principle with you, just opportunity :lol:



So its more of the same sort of reply...……. I haven't read all of Reinhardt's reply about source info least he has made an attempt which I appreciate and I will read thoroughly when I have a bit more
 
A101
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue May 21, 2019 6:26 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
A101 wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
There is one fact, and one fact alone, which totally and utterly undermines the main Brexit argument, namely 'taking back control': 99% of the UK state budget is determined by Westminister. Nothing further need saying. But if you really need to say more, 75% of immigration to the UK is from outside the EU. That's also the group of immigrants being a drain on society, whereas the 25% from the EU provide essential services nobody in the UK is willing or able to do, and yields a net profit of roughly 2BN UKP a year.

Sadly the UK is inundated with ignorants who chose to believe whatever they read in their rags, rags which have for decades been pumping lie after lie after lie out about the EU, whilst simultaneously refraining from issuing actual reports on what the EU really does, how it does it and why it does it.


Source please thank you.


It's actually all fairly common knowledge (or I would say, should be), and is freely available in Govenmental reports (produced by the ONS). Also the numbers were talked about by Remain MPs during Brexit and afterwards, but they were not listened to and touted as fake news.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-b ... ed_Kingdom Do the maths on the numbers. Provided by the ONS, see the bottom of the page for data sources.

Workers:

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/r ... -overview/

"Retail, wholesale and hospitality are the largest group of industries employing the EU born, while non-EU born workers are more likely to be in public administration and education
In 2017 one in every four EU migrants were employed in retail, wholesale, and hospitality. However, EU foreign-born workers are also employed in higher skill sectors such as banking and finance (17%) and public administration or education (18%). While one every 5 non-EU migrants is employed in the retail, wholesale and hospitality, about 30% are employed in the public administration and education sectors, and 20% are employed in banking and finance. A higher share of EU-born migrants is employed in the manufacturing sector (15%) compared to the non-EU born (6%). Looking at UK-born workers nearly one every three of UK-born workers are employed in public administration and education, while the percentage employed in retail, hotels and restaurant is lower than both the EU and Non-EU workers."


Hospitality, retail, farming, factory work. All jobs that we struggle to get young brits to do. I have first hand experience of this.

UK has a shortage of nurses and doctors, which are filled by EU migrants. Again, not enough UK people will do these jobs for the wages paid, t & cs. Also not helped by govenment cutting nurse bursaries. It takes a long time to train a doctor, so those leaving the UK now will not easily be replaced by UK born nationals. And as the data from the ONS shows, the last 2 years immigration from outside of the EU has increased significantly, vastly more than the reduction in EU migrants (who are leaving in droves).


EU migrants net gain:

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent- ... 250df6dbba
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 42506.html
https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-644 ... 144feabdc0

"Taken together, this means that the migrants who arrived in 2016 will make a total net positive contribution of £26.9 billion to the UK’s public finances over the entirety of their stay. The value of this to the UK’s public finances is equivalent to putting approximately 5p on income tax rates (across all marginal rate bands) in that year."


The entire premise that FOM is a drain on the UK, stops UK nationals getting employment (since we have near as dammit total employment right now), only takes from the NHS, stops workers from other countries coming in is now and has always been complete BS.



Thanks for the reply with some facts and figures, I will read thru it when I have a bit more time.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 6:35 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:


Is violence against people you dislike in the political field ok by you?

Not really something to make jokes about is it. This sort of thing needs to be nipped in the bud. we’ve already had the Jo Cox incident, so childish jibes against assaults of political figures isn’t very clever is it.



I can understand the frustration that someone has with mr. Farage, because he wants to make GB small again for a group of extremely rich men, but this is not the way.


Wasn’t someone frustrated with a Dutch MP who threw a cake at him? Then one month later he was murdered.


No. No member of parliament was ever murdered in the Netherlands. The one you were thinking of was Pim Fortuyn, but he wasn't a MP at the time.
But like I said, I do not condone this kind of behavior, but I do get that someone is frustrated with these kinds of political figures whom persist to destroy the liberal society we have carefully crafted in the last 200 odd years. These populists should be rebutted with words, not and physical behavior. And we all know that the arguments these people have are more liquid diarrhea and just as useful in ordinary life.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 6:37 pm

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:


Would be nice if you did an apples with apples comparison before sprouting the virtues of the EU. By this I mean looking at wasteful government spending from all members of the union, last time I looked it wasn’t quite a federal European Union just yet, so you can’t compare one without comparing them all.

And actually use figures not just a hearsay comparison like “so you and your college's waste much more money than the EU” when you haven’t produced the evidence


Since he and his colleague's spent something like 99% of the UK budget and the EU about 1%, it is quite likely that they waste a lot more money in absolute Euro's then the EU. No need to come up with absolute figures when there is this kind of discrepancies.

But always nice to see that you are attacking me on this, while giving noviorbis77 a pass. So it isn't quite principle with you, just opportunity :lol:



So its more of the same sort of reply...……. I haven't read all of Reinhardt's reply about source info least he has made an attempt which I appreciate and I will read thoroughly when I have a bit more


If you are truly interested in the figures themselves, you can always do some digging. Again it was the claim of noviorbis77, not my claim and yet you choose to address it with my post and not his.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 6:39 pm

scbriml wrote:
A101 wrote:
Doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do, if someone random pelted you with eggs and you caught the person what do you think should happen to them?


I never said it was right and I never condoned it. That doesn't mean I can't be amused highly by Farage being 'milkshaked'.

As to punishment? Prison is ludicrously disproportionate, a few hours of community service will do nicely.



Being amused by it and gloating is the same as condoning it, people can have opposing views which should not include belittle them or embarrassing them via a food fight, if the shoe was on the other foot and an MP was continually being heckled and did something of the same you would expect a lot harsher punishment would you?
 
A101
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 6:58 pm

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Since he and his colleague's spent something like 99% of the UK budget and the EU about 1%, it is quite likely that they waste a lot more money in absolute Euro's then the EU. No need to come up with absolute figures when there is this kind of discrepancies.

But always nice to see that you are attacking me on this, while giving noviorbis77 a pass. So it isn't quite principle with you, just opportunity :lol:



So its more of the same sort of reply...……. I haven't read all of Reinhardt's reply about source info least he has made an attempt which I appreciate and I will read thoroughly when I have a bit more


If you are truly interested in the figures themselves, you can always do some digging. Again it was the claim of noviorbis77, not my claim and yet you choose to address it with my post and not his.



You are the person who actually claimed it was government economic waste, all I did was point out you readily came up with facts and figures for the EU and insinuated that the EU was more efficient in that regard without using the same facts or figure to prove the claim, all hearsay on your part and you continue on that line of thought. All conjecture until you prove it as it is your claim not Noviorbis77 claim.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 7:40 pm

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:


So its more of the same sort of reply...……. I haven't read all of Reinhardt's reply about source info least he has made an attempt which I appreciate and I will read thoroughly when I have a bit more


If you are truly interested in the figures themselves, you can always do some digging. Again it was the claim of noviorbis77, not my claim and yet you choose to address it with my post and not his.



You are the person who actually claimed it was government economic waste, all I did was point out you readily came up with facts and figures for the EU and insinuated that the EU was more efficient in that regard without using the same facts or figure to prove the claim, all hearsay on your part and you continue on that line of thought. All conjecture until you prove it as it is your claim not Noviorbis77 claim.


As noted, the UK spends only a small amount on the EU, we seem to forget that.

Anyhow: UK spends 12,367.80 M€ +/+ 3,199.02 M€ -/- rebait 4,937.61 M€ = 10,574.98 M€

EU spending in UK: 6,326.32 M€

Net contribution UK: 4,248 M€

Look for yourself.

UK annual budget: 1,138,150M€ (810,000 M£).

Look for yourself.

So, we can conclude that the EU spends around 0,9% of the UK's government annual budget. So in order for my statement to be untrue, you have to conclude that Noviorbis77 and his colleagues are more than 99,1% efficient if the EU waste 100% of his money.

Since this scenario is completely hypothetical and completely unrealistic we can conclude that my statement is right without knowing the exact numbers of EU of UK government waste. Such numbers are hard to come by anyhow and are full of interpretations of what is waste and what is not.

You could have concluded this for yourself, but you elected to have it spelled out for you, I thought your level of intelligence was a bit higher but it's ok, if needed, I can spell it out.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 8:17 pm

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

If you are truly interested in the figures themselves, you can always do some digging. Again it was the claim of noviorbis77, not my claim and yet you choose to address it with my post and not his.



You are the person who actually claimed it was government economic waste, all I did was point out you readily came up with facts and figures for the EU and insinuated that the EU was more efficient in that regard without using the same facts or figure to prove the claim, all hearsay on your part and you continue on that line of thought. All conjecture until you prove it as it is your claim not Noviorbis77 claim.


As noted, the UK spends only a small amount on the EU, we seem to forget that.

Anyhow: UK spends 12,367.80 M€ +/+ 3,199.02 M€ -/- rebait 4,937.61 M€ = 10,574.98 M€

EU spending in UK: 6,326.32 M€

Net contribution UK: 4,248 M€

Look for yourself.

UK annual budget: 1,138,150M€ (810,000 M£).

Look for yourself.

So, we can conclude that the EU spends around 0,9% of the UK's government annual budget. So in order for my statement to be untrue, you have to conclude that Noviorbis77 and his colleagues are more than 99,1% efficient if the EU waste 100% of his money.

Since this scenario is completely hypothetical and completely unrealistic we can conclude that my statement is right without knowing the exact numbers of EU of UK government waste. Such numbers are hard to come by anyhow and are full of interpretations of what is waste and what is not.

You could have concluded this for yourself, but you elected to have it spelled out for you, I thought your level of intelligence was a bit higher but it's ok, if needed, I can spell it out.



No I wanted you to do the research to back your claims. Nothing to do with spelling it out everyone can make unsubstantiated claims.

But do the apples and apples comparison with all members, as I said its not a federal union yet
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Tue May 21, 2019 8:24 pm

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:


You are the person who actually claimed it was government economic waste, all I did was point out you readily came up with facts and figures for the EU and insinuated that the EU was more efficient in that regard without using the same facts or figure to prove the claim, all hearsay on your part and you continue on that line of thought. All conjecture until you prove it as it is your claim not Noviorbis77 claim.


As noted, the UK spends only a small amount on the EU, we seem to forget that.

Anyhow: UK spends 12,367.80 M€ +/+ 3,199.02 M€ -/- rebait 4,937.61 M€ = 10,574.98 M€

EU spending in UK: 6,326.32 M€

Net contribution UK: 4,248 M€

Look for yourself.

UK annual budget: 1,138,150M€ (810,000 M£).

Look for yourself.

So, we can conclude that the EU spends around 0,9% of the UK's government annual budget. So in order for my statement to be untrue, you have to conclude that Noviorbis77 and his colleagues are more than 99,1% efficient if the EU waste 100% of his money.

Since this scenario is completely hypothetical and completely unrealistic we can conclude that my statement is right without knowing the exact numbers of EU of UK government waste. Such numbers are hard to come by anyhow and are full of interpretations of what is waste and what is not.

You could have concluded this for yourself, but you elected to have it spelled out for you, I thought your level of intelligence was a bit higher but it's ok, if needed, I can spell it out.



No I wanted you to do the research to back your claims. Nothing to do with spelling it out everyone can make unsubstantiated claims.

But do the apples and apples comparison with all members, as I said its not a federal union yet


If you want to do this, do it yourself, I am not your lackey. But good to know that you will back-up any statement you make in the future. Just like you were writing a scientific paper.
As for the EU budget, it is limited to 1,4% of the GDP of any partner nation, so the national budget is always far larger than the EU contribution. So you can do the same exercise for every country and the result will be the same.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Wed May 22, 2019 12:54 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

As noted, the UK spends only a small amount on the EU, we seem to forget that.

Anyhow: UK spends 12,367.80 M€ +/+ 3,199.02 M€ -/- rebait 4,937.61 M€ = 10,574.98 M€

EU spending in UK: 6,326.32 M€

Net contribution UK: 4,248 M€

Look for yourself.

UK annual budget: 1,138,150M€ (810,000 M£).

Look for yourself.

So, we can conclude that the EU spends around 0,9% of the UK's government annual budget. So in order for my statement to be untrue, you have to conclude that Noviorbis77 and his colleagues are more than 99,1% efficient if the EU waste 100% of his money.

Since this scenario is completely hypothetical and completely unrealistic we can conclude that my statement is right without knowing the exact numbers of EU of UK government waste. Such numbers are hard to come by anyhow and are full of interpretations of what is waste and what is not.

You could have concluded this for yourself, but you elected to have it spelled out for you, I thought your level of intelligence was a bit higher but it's ok, if needed, I can spell it out.



No I wanted you to do the research to back your claims. Nothing to do with spelling it out everyone can make unsubstantiated claims.

But do the apples and apples comparison with all members, as I said its not a federal union yet


If you want to do this, do it yourself, I am not your lackey. But good to know that you will back-up any statement you make in the future. Just like you were writing a scientific paper.
As for the EU budget, it is limited to 1,4% of the GDP of any partner nation, so the national budget is always far larger than the EU contribution. So you can do the same exercise for every country and the result will be the same.



You were talking about government economic waste, but have yet to do an apples and apples comparison. I have not asked for scientific paper on the subject just some figures which you base your claim on.

So far all you have done is show that the UK overall budget is bigger than our contributions to the EU and translating that because it is larger it has more government waste, you have not shown as a % what is the amount of waste. But have shown a figure of 6% for EU economic waste all I’m asking for is your source for claim that the UK government economic waste is higher than 6% as a portion to the budget

As many on here rightly say the UK government has an overlap functions which the EU already does then by leaving using 2017 budget/membership figures, we could save 1.12% of the waste in the budget. Also that could increase as its Gunther Oettinger wants to scrap membership rebates in the future,there’s another possible 5b+ hit on top while being a member of the EU.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Wed May 22, 2019 8:07 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:


No I wanted you to do the research to back your claims. Nothing to do with spelling it out everyone can make unsubstantiated claims.

But do the apples and apples comparison with all members, as I said its not a federal union yet


If you want to do this, do it yourself, I am not your lackey. But good to know that you will back-up any statement you make in the future. Just like you were writing a scientific paper.
As for the EU budget, it is limited to 1,4% of the GDP of any partner nation, so the national budget is always far larger than the EU contribution. So you can do the same exercise for every country and the result will be the same.



You were talking about government economic waste, but have yet to do an apples and apples comparison. I have not asked for scientific paper on the subject just some figures which you base your claim on.

So far all you have done is show that the UK overall budget is bigger than our contributions to the EU and translating that because it is larger it has more government waste, you have not shown as a % what is the amount of waste. But have shown a figure of 6% for EU economic waste all I’m asking for is your source for claim that the UK government economic waste is higher than 6% as a portion to the budget

As many on here rightly say the UK government has an overlap functions which the EU already does then by leaving using 2017 budget/membership figures, we could save 1.12% of the waste in the budget. Also that could increase as its Gunther Oettinger wants to scrap membership rebates in the future,there’s another possible 5b+ hit on top while being a member of the EU.


Ok, now you have shown that you don't read or at least ignore the things I have said. Just look what I actually said on waste and what the 6% figure is (hint not waste).

Please show us that ALL functions the EU does overlap with the functions the UK government does. And are you mad about government waste? I mean if your assertion is right, it means that the UK government is doing things double which could have lead to putting this money somewhere where it is more useful. So thinking with your train of thought, it could actually be put in the NHS by simply scrapping these asserted overlaps and staying in the EU. A brilliant argument, so there we have it, you are a secret remainer, you just don't know it yet. :lol:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2380
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed May 22, 2019 8:56 am

For perspective, there are 751 MEPs who are served by roughly 7500 EU civil servants. That's roughly 10 to 1 ratio, agreed?

There are roughly 400.000 civil servants in the UK, which does not include NHS staff, teachers, soldiers or police officers - it's just the administrators. They serve a parliament of 650 MPs and 742 peers in the House of Lords, yielding a ratio of roughly 290 to 1. Now as some here may be Sun or Daily Hate readers, for clarity 290 is a number roughly 30 times higher than 10. I'm not quite sure how to measure that in London busses or elephants, but it is rather a significant difference.

Which brings us to another fact the UK population have steadfastly refused to accept: The EU is vastly more efficient than their national government.
Signature. You just read one.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11555
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed May 22, 2019 10:00 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
VSMUT, what kind of "world" do they see in their all expenses paid, tax-free parallel universe? Be it in Strasbourg or Brussels.
Besides, this Strasbourg nonsense is meant to be just a super-expensive monument to French-German friendship. (which people in Finland, Malta or Ireland probably could not care less about)
It has become an unintended and symbolic monument to EU's inability to reform even the most obvious examples of wastefulness.

Dogman wrote:
I am not sure what exactly do you want. You like the benefits of the EU? Well, they are the result of a tighter integration.

They are the pillars of the EU. Schengen was Here before Maastricht or Lisbon.

Dogman wrote:
If you think that the benefits outweigh the loss of the ability to make independent policy decisions? Then stay in the EU. You think that Czech republic is hamstrung by losing the ability to make its own policies? Then leave. It appears that you want all the benefits of integration without any of the constrains. It just doesn't work like that.


What doesn't work like that? Anyone who doesn't subscribe to the concept of leftist, overreaching EU should be kicked out? Any dissenting opinion still arguing in favor of the EU receives asinine response "So just throwing away 70 years of cooperation is better than move forward and fix the problems the EU has."from the far-left? Is it the Left's way or no way?

I personally would be quite content with pre-Lisbon more scaled back, lean and static (enough of the
ever closer union) EU.
EU as a primarily trading block, with Euro optional. A political entity only to the extent ALL member states agree upon. I see no need to duplicate NATO with some sissy EU Army, advocated by those who have been sabotaging NATO for ages and have been either instigators of wars or unreliable allies.

The real question what is the endgame for the those whose only answer to any question is "more EUrope"?
Some sort of French-style dirigist superstate, where the shots are called by the French, paid for by the Germans and everyone else is "just markets"? AF-KLM x 27 if we stay in aviation terms?

BTW, where are You from?


The only way to go back is also to remove the newest countries from the EU.

First step would probably be the collapse of the Euro.

If that happens, all bets are off.

Currently there are imbalances in Euro countries and it's getting worse, as exporting countries benefit from a lower currency than it should be, when struggling countries are hampered by too high a currency.

If there aren't transfers to compensate for this, it can't work in the long run.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
A101
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Wed May 22, 2019 10:12 am

Dutchy wrote:

Ok, now you have shown that you don't read or at least ignore the things I have said. Just look what I actually said on waste and what the 6% figure is (hint not waste).


Seems you need reminding on what you actually said......and below

Dutchy wrote:

The EU has indeed some strange things and is wasting money in some area's, and is very efficient in some other area's. How much of the annual budget is wasted in the UK on civil servants and the hole government apparatus? In the EU it is 6%, very efficient, so you and your college's waste much more money than the EU, so I am not exactly sure how you can lecture the EU about not wasting money. All the services the EU does at the moment will go back to the UK, most probably it will cost the UK tax-payer more when your wet dream becomes reality. But why let facts stand in the way of a good argument?


If the EU “is 6%, very efficient” that implies the UK is less efficient, do you agree?
By what % is the UK inefficient?


Dutchy wrote:
Please show us that ALL functions the EU does overlap with the functions the UK government does. And are you mad about government waste? I mean if your assertion is right, it means that the UK government is doing things double which could have lead to putting this money somewhere where it is more useful. So thinking with your train of thought, it could actually be put in the NHS by simply scrapping these asserted overlaps and staying in the EU. A brilliant argument, so there we have it, you are a secret remainer, you just don't know it yet. :lol:


Just a couple of examples from the top of my head, but that does not mean giving the EU the political federal union it wants and the majority of the the electorate do not want... hence the vote to leave the EU.

DFID 0.7% of our gross national income goes to foreign aid
EU unveils increased foreign aid budget for 2021-27 (15 Jun 2018)

UK Trade & Investment (UKTI) Name change to UK Department for International Trade (DIT) (july2016)

EU Directorate-General for Trade (DG TRADE) coordinates trade relations between the European Union (EU) and the rest of the world.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8290
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed May 22, 2019 10:50 am

British steel bankrupt. Of course it’s got nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Wed May 22, 2019 11:32 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Ok, now you have shown that you don't read or at least ignore the things I have said. Just look what I actually said on waste and what the 6% figure is (hint not waste).


Seems you need reminding on what you actually said......and below

Dutchy wrote:

The EU has indeed some strange things and is wasting money in some area's, and is very efficient in some other area's. How much of the annual budget is wasted in the UK on civil servants and the hole government apparatus? In the EU it is 6%, very efficient, so you and your college's waste much more money than the EU, so I am not exactly sure how you can lecture the EU about not wasting money. All the services the EU does at the moment will go back to the UK, most probably it will cost the UK tax-payer more when your wet dream becomes reality. But why let facts stand in the way of a good argument?


If the EU “is 6%, very efficient” that implies the UK is less efficient, do you agree?
By what % is the UK inefficient?


There are, as at the end of March 2018 430,075 civil servants in the Home Civil Service, this does not include: government ministers (who are politically appointed), members of the British Armed Forces, the police, officers of local government authorities or quangos of the Houses of Parliament, employees of the National Health Service (NHS), or staff of the Royal Household. Source. I could not find what the UK spends on these 430 thousand civil servants, the UK isn't as transparent as the EU is. To put a number at this: median income in the UK was £27,195 in 2014 or 30,839EUR, so at the absolute minimum, the total som of the civil servants pay is: (and mind you this excludes all kind of employer pay, offices, political apparatus, the average civil servant has a higher education thus are paid more, are stationed in London were the pay is better etc. etc. etc., all of this is included in the 6%). An average UK civil servant, spends 1,138,150/430,075 = 2.646.398EURO and actually, this figure is a lot lower, because a number of civil servants aren't included in the numbers.

The number of people that were employed by the Commission as officials and temporary agents in their 2016 budget: 24,428 persons. In addition to these, 9.066 "external staff" were employed. Source. So the average EU civil servant spends around: 165.800.000.000/24.428 = 6.787.293EURO per person.

Thus the EU is more efficient than in the UK.


Dutchy wrote:
Please show us that ALL functions the EU does overlap with the functions the UK government does. And are you mad about government waste? I mean if your assertion is right, it means that the UK government is doing things double which could have lead to putting this money somewhere where it is more useful. So thinking with your train of thought, it could actually be put in the NHS by simply scrapping these asserted overlaps and staying in the EU. A brilliant argument, so there we have it, you are a secret remainer, you just don't know it yet. :lol:


Just a couple of examples from the top of my head, but that does not mean giving the EU the political federal union it wants and the majority of the the electorate do not want... hence the vote to leave the EU.

DFID 0.7% of our gross national income goes to foreign aid
EU unveils increased foreign aid budget for 2021-27 (15 Jun 2018)

UK Trade & Investment (UKTI) Name change to UK Department for International Trade (DIT) (july2016)

EU Directorate-General for Trade (DG TRADE) coordinates trade relations between the European Union (EU) and the rest of the world.[/quote]


Now I expect the same level of detail to back up your claims, just on top of your head won't fly, if you demand this from me.

But to react to this: you can lower your foreign aid program if you wish, the EU hasn't got jurisdiction over the UK budget. So it isn't a double function.

Ok, you have a DIT, well, as you correctly say, the UK doesn't do its own trade deals, so what the DG TRADE does for the EU28, will have to go back to the UK and since the UK wants to deal with all the countries, it needs to be as large as the DG TRADE, so there will be more UK staff then they pay now within the EU budget, so an excellent point in favor of the UK. The DIT will probably be something like Netherlands Foreign Investment Agency. An agency trying to get companies to invest in the Netherlands, not an agency to make trade deals.

So these two examples are a false narrative, so your whole argument fails. Since you base your Brexit conclusions on the wrong assumptions, I assume you will have enough of a flexible mind to reach another conclusion, right?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed May 22, 2019 11:34 am

BestWestern wrote:
British steel bankrupt. Of course it’s got nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit.


All project fear, nothing to see here.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
JJJ
Posts: 3198
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Wed May 22, 2019 11:34 am

A101 wrote:

UK Trade & Investment (UKTI) Name change to UK Department for International Trade (DIT) (july2016)

EU Directorate-General for Trade (DG TRADE) coordinates trade relations between the European Union (EU) and the rest of the world.


And there is a Scottish Directorate for International Trade and Investment which coordinates trade and investment yadda yadda.

Different levels of government have different responsibilities under the same umbrella.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2972
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed May 22, 2019 12:16 pm

Dutchy wrote:
BestWestern wrote:
British steel bankrupt. Of course it’s got nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit.


All project fear, nothing to see here.


Yeah, another 25,000 Brits out of a manufacturing job soon, but let's discuss different levels of government efficiency, theoretical brexit dividends and who's to be the next Tory leader to fail at uniting today's diminished global economic position of Britain with the illusional and completely outdated vision of it by most of its party's ageing electorate…

Pathetic!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed May 22, 2019 2:31 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
BestWestern wrote:
British steel bankrupt. Of course it’s got nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit.


All project fear, nothing to see here.


Yeah, another 25,000 Brits out of a manufacturing job soon, but let's discuss different levels of government efficiency, theoretical brexit dividends and who's to be the next Tory leader to fail at uniting today's diminished global economic position of Britain with the illusional and completely outdated vision of it by most of its party's ageing electorate…

Pathetic!


Everybody seems to agree that there will no Brexit dividend, at least not for the first 30 to 50 years of Brexit. only the foolish diehard seems not to subscribe to this.

The British economy has already suffered more than the EU is "costing" the UK taxpayer, and they haven't even left. The one trillion pounds in assets did leave the UK though.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8290
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed May 22, 2019 6:18 pm

I was with the German country manager of a major Japanese brand today. He specifically mentioned that the company has moved their head office out of the UK because of Brexit.

But of course this is fake news.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Wed May 22, 2019 6:20 pm

BestWestern wrote:
I was with the German country manager of a major Japanese brand today. He specifically mentioned that the company has moved their head office out of the UK because of Brexit.

But of course this is fake news.


No it isn't, it is project fear :lol:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 688
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Wed May 22, 2019 7:37 pm

It is rather simplistic to measure efficiency based solely on number of people employed in a civil service to the population of the UK. Jesus.

Isn’t it amazing how someone from Holland who lives in Holland has such insight and knowledge of life in the UK that they are able to determine how efficient the UK public sector is.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Wed May 22, 2019 7:44 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
It is rather simplistic to measure efficiency based solely on number of people employed in a civil service to the population of the UK. Jesus.

Isn’t it amazing how someone from Holland who lives in Holland has such insight and knowledge of life in the UK that they are able to determine how efficient the UK public sector is.


I am open to a different measure. Criticism is easy, to be constructive is hard.

Do I dare to remind you you have quite a bit of open questions to answer:

noviorbis77 wrote:
[As someone brainwashed by the EU, are you not concerned about how much money the EU needlessly wastes? Moving Parliament, corruption, and over generous expense claims?


Please show us where is corruption and that it is more than in the UK.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 688
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Wed May 22, 2019 10:23 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
It is rather simplistic to measure efficiency based solely on number of people employed in a civil service to the population of the UK. Jesus.

Isn’t it amazing how someone from Holland who lives in Holland has such insight and knowledge of life in the UK that they are able to determine how efficient the UK public sector is.


I am open to a different measure. Criticism is easy, to be constructive is hard.

Do I dare to remind you you have quite a bit of open questions to answer:

noviorbis77 wrote:
[As someone brainwashed by the EU, are you not concerned about how much money the EU needlessly wastes? Moving Parliament, corruption, and over generous expense claims?


Please show us where is corruption and that it is more than in the UK.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387

I am not aware of any significant UK political corruption I’m afraid.
 
A101
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Wed May 22, 2019 11:44 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
It is rather simplistic to measure efficiency based solely on number of people employed in a civil service to the population of the UK. Jesus.




Yes I’m still a little perplexed as to how the EU only having approx 6% of the UK civil service workforce means the EU is more efficient, the EU doesn’t work in a vacuum EU civil service cannot function without support from their national counterparts

Size does not mean efficient
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9155
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Thu May 23, 2019 6:48 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
It is rather simplistic to measure efficiency based solely on number of people employed in a civil service to the population of the UK. Jesus.

Isn’t it amazing how someone from Holland who lives in Holland has such insight and knowledge of life in the UK that they are able to determine how efficient the UK public sector is.


I am open to a different measure. Criticism is easy, to be constructive is hard.

Do I dare to remind you you have quite a bit of open questions to answer:

noviorbis77 wrote:
[As someone brainwashed by the EU, are you not concerned about how much money the EU needlessly wastes? Moving Parliament, corruption, and over generous expense claims?


Please show us where is corruption and that it is more than in the UK.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387

I am not aware of any significant UK political corruption I’m afraid.


Do you actually read the reports you post? You said EU corruption, not a rapport about corruption in the EU, two totally different things.

About the UK:
the perception data show that 64% of UK respondents think corruption is widespread in the country
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreaue

Thu May 23, 2019 9:39 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
I am not aware of any significant UK political corruption I’m afraid.


What of the MPs who have external financial interests and are acting with these interests in mind rather than those of their constituents? I think those can be accused of being corrupt -I'm happy to name and explain if you so wish, there are plenty of them and most sit on one side of the house.

Also people involved in a certain Electoral Comission report. I would certainly consider them to be corrupt.

Many people still see those from the MPs expenses scandals as corrupt too. Some were just stupid, others did it in full knowledge.

Depends on your threshold level of what the description of corruption is I guess.
 
A101
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Fri May 24, 2019 2:03 am

I dip my lid to you kind sir, he is an example to what the younger generation should be inspiring to be, hope they catch the mug who did this.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... n-wearing/

So do you find this amusing too scbriml?


For you Dutchy if you haven’ heard the expression before

Definition Of: Dip one's lid


1. raise one's hat; 2. pay honour to or congratulate (someone)
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Fri May 24, 2019 9:19 am

A101 wrote:
I dip my lid to you kind sir, he is an example to what the younger generation should be inspiring to be, hope they catch the mug who did this.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... n-wearing/

So do you find this amusing too scbriml?


For you Dutchy if you haven’ heard the expression before

Definition Of: Dip one's lid


1. raise one's hat; 2. pay honour to or congratulate (someone)


Of course it's appaling and shouldn't be happening.

On the other side of the coin compare the reactions to Farage's milkshake episode to the constant threats of violence (including murder), rape and general disgusting behavior of Brexiteers towards female MPs who are against Brexit. MPs have been egged for decades, it happened to Corbyn and Ed Milliand and they shrugged it off. That doesn't make it any more right, but the response to each act is telling.

This is was happens when verbal abuse, threats of violence primarily online, but also face to face to MPs becomes common place. People then move to the next level and next level. This constant upping of pretending MPs are subverting democracy by actually standing up for it, this constant bullying of the press, lies etc. It's straight out of the Trump and Bannon playbook.

It's dangerous and needs to stop.

No doubt those here of a Brexiteer persuasion willl jump in a start going on about how the left do this and that. I'm not left wing, I'm slap bang centre ground and both side are guilty of things, but what's happened over the last few years has been driven only from one side of the political landscape.
Last edited by Reinhardt on Fri May 24, 2019 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
LJ
Posts: 4741
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Fri May 24, 2019 9:19 am

May is gone as of June 7th. Will be interesting who will be the next PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48395905
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 4820
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Fri May 24, 2019 9:23 am

She finally threw in the towel. It took her a lot longer than I thought to realize that her job was impossible to complete...

Let's see who steps up to the gallow plate.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aaron747, Airstud, casinterest, GalaxyFlyer, LAX772LR, ltbewr and 23 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos